19931101.docx

MINUTES OF DECISION MEETING
November 1, 1993 - 1:30 p.m.
In attendance were Commissioners Marsha H. Smith, Joe Miller and Ralph Nelson.  Also in attendance were Tonya Clark, Scott Woodbury, Don Howell, Mary Friddle, Randy Lobb, Bev Barker, Bob Horton, Tom Faull and Myrna Walters.
Items from the November 1, 1993 Agenda were acted upon as follows.
1.  Regulated Carrier Division Agenda dated November 1, 1993.
Approved.
2.  Robert Horton's October 26, 1993 Decision Memorandum re:  Railroad Clearance Rules Waiver.
Don Howell said he didn't see why we couldn't do it as we had done it previously.  All of this came to light when Bob Horton got ready to prepare the actual order.  
Could say we don't have jurisdiction, we can't issue an order.
Tonya Clark asked what we based this on?
Don Howell said it was fully investigated and the reason for deciding we do not have jurisdiction was predicated on plan in Idaho Falls (gave details of that).
Commissioner Smith asked - was the Envirosafe Services request put out for comment and notice?
Bob Horton said no.  It was already built.
**Was found that the notice did go out.
Commissioner Miller asked Bob Horton about who would be there?
Bob Horton explained - said some truck driver could possibly be in the building.
Commissioner Miller asked Bob Horton if he had been out to the site?
Bob said he had.
Commissioner Miller said the end result is the same no matter what we do.  If the facilities will be legal in some sense, why don't we just grant the waiver.
Bob Horton said we have had this in-house for sometime.
-2-
Commissioner Miller said he thought it was better appearance to grant the waiver than to have this in-house for how ever long we have had it and now suddenly come to the conclusion that we don't have jurisdiction.
Commissioner Nelson said he would grant the waiver.  
Agreed.
**Stephanie Miller and Tom Faull were in attendance at this time, as well as Greg Said of Idaho Power Company.
3.  Beverly Barker's October 25, 1993 Decision Memorandum re:  Idaho Power Company Program for Customer-Installed Conduit for Residential Service.  (Held from October 28, 1993 Decision Meeting).
Beverly Barker said she was asked earlier about the time interval.  Said unless unusually conditions exist, the company is responding to those requests by the developers for Idaho Power to do the installation within 5 days.  No one should have to wait longer than 5 working days.
Commissioner Smith asked if that was reasonable to Bev?
Bev Barker said yes.
Commissioner Miller said he didn't want to see any slippage in that.
Approved.
4.  Scott Woodbury's October 26, 1993 Decision Memorandum re:  Case No. UPL-E-93-4  Island Power vs PCP dba UP&L  PCP Motionsto Dismiss.  (Held from October 28, 1993 Decision Meeting).
Commissioner Smith said - using Scott Woodbury's decision tree, that the answer to whether we have jurisdiction based on our Earth Power decision, was yes.  But whether we should exercise it was harder.  Does our staff have legal opinion on "Commerce Clause"?
Scott Woodbury said it was a good one.
Commissioner Smith said it seemed to her that if UPL has administratively determined avoided costs that we have set in this state and if projects tendered in compliance with existing requirements and are reliable for the return, then they are entitled to have a contract and the only extenuating circumstances might be is if you decided that the project situs had some bearing on it and you would apply Montana Law.
-3-
Commissioner Nelson said he didn't come to that same conclusion.  His feeling on it is that he hasn't studied Afton to a great degree.  Montana does have administratively determined avoided cost (procedure).  It is a bidding procedure and Pacificorp will be going out for bids in March of '94 and between bids, the Montana system is to pay an energy rate for projects over 5 mws and then you come in and bid when they come up for bid.  Guess it is a Montana situs and the nearest interconnect is Montana and they do have a facility in Montana, would encourage them to sell the power to Pacificorp in Montana without judging whether or not a system is better, etc.  Haven't seen staff's opinion on the "Commerce Clause".
Commissioner Miller said he was not sure about the Commerce Clause.  We had cases cited that clearly established the traditional sort of protectionism but whether there are cases more like ours or the reverse would be interesting to know.  
Scott Woodbury said - sort of like the Governor keeping radioactive material out of the state.
Commissioner Miller said - need more research on that to know.  Would agree with Earth Power that we should reject the PPL approach to the extent that it is based on the idea that Idaho rates are high in comparison to other states and people shouldn't be allowed to seek higher rates.  By definition our rates would be just and reasonable.  Whether they are higher than neighboring jurisdictions, is basically irrelevant.  Did think though about directing the oral argument, it is kind of the question within the industry of what its customer.. with finding point of delivery, what does that really mean?  What is the difference from their physical connection?  How does that work?  That is unclear.  Apparently it is common for the place of delivery to be different from the place of physical interconnection which I assume is usually by agreement, or how it is completed.  Can easily reason this the way that you get to which is if a QF can make the arrangements to deliver to a point so to speak in Idaho, it is not important or relevant where the generating facility is.  But then he gets back to the confusion in his mind of what this point of delay really means when it is apparently different from where you physically tie in.  Can get to where you got.  Is still not clear on point of delivery.  Could start putting electrons in at Goshen and if it is a connected grid, couldn't I say to PGE in San Francisco, you have to take out an equivalent amount?  
Scott Woodbury said as long as you contract with them.
-4-
Tom Faull said the flow is generally moving on the line.  If it went out they would be reducing the load.  It has been a standard in the industry,  it is not real, but they accept it.  It is still the standard in the industry.  If you can get a contract, your system is from point to point.
Commissioner Miller said it is a matter of contract.  If PPL could get contract... From an industry standard operating procedure, regardless of where the electrons go, that would be the foundation on which everybody's load would be based.  
Tom Faull explained the interconnect.  Thought there was an existing contract.  Once they are at Goshen, Pacificorp has physical interconnection.
Commissioner Miller said all we really have to decide now is that a QF if it can make contractual arrangements with which they did on a system of interconnections, to contract for delivery at a point in Idaho, then we have jurisdiction to determine the terms, conditions, etc. of the service.
Tom Faull agreed.
Commissioner Miller said it makes sense to him.  At this point under federal law, a QF doesn't have to compel wheeling.
Tom Faull said he thought they were required to grant it if it is physically available.  Everybody generates to the end everybody takes out.  The system changes so much from day to day that we can't say you are going along this line, it is going to go somewhere else.
Commissioner Nelson asked what happens if it overloads?
Tom Faull said they are in touch with each other all the time.  If a line overloads, it will just cascade.
Scott Woodbury said on the interjurisdiction allocation, it is premature?
Commissioners said yes.
Scott Woodbury said WWP accordingly has language requiring approval of all their Commissions.  This is not in Idaho Power's.  Has never seen PPL's contract.
Commissioner Miller said his decision was - we have jurisdiction.
Commissioner Smith agreed.
-5-
Pacificorp should contract for it if they can get it here.
Tom Faull said if the companies would come in every couple of years with new rates, this wouldn't happen.  The exceptions will be the hydro projects like this.  Bidding standards do not work for hydro systems.
Commissioner Miller said you should to the extent you can, have an open market and people should be able to sell into it at various points is probably the right policy.  
Meeting adjourned at 2:15 p.m.
Dated at Boise, Idaho, this 27th day of December, 1993.
Myrna J. Walters
Commission Secretary
mjw
0182M