19921110.docx

MINUTES OF DECISION MEETING
November 10, 1992 - 1:30 p.m.
In attendance were:
Commissioners Marsha H. Smith, Joe Miller and Ralph Nelson and staff members Mike Gilmore, Brad Purdy, Gary Richardson, Terri Carlock, Mary Friddle, Dave Schunke, Keith Hessing, Syd Lansing, Stephanie Miller, Nancy Harman, Tonya Clark, Bev Barker and Myrna Walters.  Also in attendance was Ron Lightfoot from U. S. West.
Items from the November 10, 1992 Agenda were discussed as follows.
1.  Regulated Carrier Division Agenda dated November 10, 1992.
Approved.
2.  Brad Purdy's October 20, 1992 Decision Memorandum re:  Idaho Power's Application for an Accounting Order in Regard to its Power Quality Program - IPC-E-92-18.  (Held from November 2, 1992 Decision Meeting - Supplemental Decision Memo from Terri Carlock also discussed).
Commissioner Miller asked what the difference was between the memos?  Said it did help him get a sense of the magnitude of costs.  It is relatively small under staff's proposal.
Terri Carlock explained company, staff, or expensing everything.
Commissioner Miller said he was curious about our general feeling about doing this?  Have we usually supported it, is it unusual regulatory process, etc.?
Terri Carlock said staff is concerned about deferrals without looking at them in a rate case, whether or not the programs are not unusual.
Commissioner Smith said she did have some concern that Idaho Power is overearning.
Commissioner Miller asked - what is their rate of return assumption?
Terri Carlock said she thought it was about where they are authorized right now.  Haven't seen their workpapers.
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**Birdelle Brown was in attendance at this time.
Commissioner Nelson said he thought the general concern is we get several of these programs going without them coming in for rate case.  Concern of it being a large number over the years.  It kind of gets away from you.
Commissioner Miller said there are a number of these types of things floating around.
Mike Gilmore said you could say you were going to amortize them out at date certain.  It is up to them to decide whether or not they need a rate case.
COmmissioner Smith suggested one year deferral.
Terri Carlock said that would be good for something they have control over.
Plant in service was discussed.
Commissioner Miller said that is the point that he keeps coming back to, whether or not you want to provide this type of program.   Is it good ratemaking or not?
Terri Carlock said she didn't like to encourage it herself.  It is not unheard of though.
Mike Gilmore said it is almost never done for on-going programs, just for start-up.
Stephanie Miller said she thought a lot of the concern of FASB and SEC is deferring everything for further questions.  Most deferred were under the condition that you were going to look at them.
Commissioner Smith asked if there was merit to deferring to a date certain?
Stephanie Miller said there was.
Mike Gilmore asked if you don't want to get a big net and look at all these programs at the same time?
Stephanie Miller suggested automatically taking on 12 month deferral period.
Commissioner Smith said then you would be dealing with real numbers.
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Commissioner Miller said that was attractive in this case.  Think this is a program the company has undertaken in response to our general desire, recognition of power quality being important and the utility has a role to play in providing that service.  At the same time no matter how wonderful any program is, for ratemaking point of view you worry about this in effect blanket check recovery.  Not only dollar for dollar but ratebase recovery.
Commissioner Nelson said maybe we need to think about all the conservation numbers we are deferring.  Maybe we need a drop dead date for those.
Commissioner Miller said he thought conservation can be viewed as generation.  This isn't the same.
Commissioner Nelson said he was only thinking about it as number we don't have a handle on.
Commissioner Smith said she needed Terri Carlock to tell her one more time about her misgivings about deferring for one year and then it is going to be expensed.  
Terri Carlock said having a set time for start up isn't  as much a problem as other deferrals.
Commissioner Miller said we are now talking about a time limit on the amount.
Terri Carlock said that would give them (1) recognition that it is a good program but you are going to amortize it at a time certain and (2) each year after, the ongoing costs would be billed into rates when they come in for a rate case or they have absorbed them.
**Decided on what Terri Carlock suggested.
Commissioner Smith asked - what we are putting a time limit on is the whole thing?
Commissioner Nelson said he would like them to do the whole thing.
Terri Carlock said she would do all of them.
Discussed date.  - December 31, was decided upon.
Commissioner Nelson asked about steps company will take to assure non-disconnection?  Answered Nancy Harman if company and staff had agreed on this?
Nancy Harman said more or less.
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3.  Mike Gilmore's November 4, 1992 Decision Memorandum re:  Latest ICC Rulemaking on Bingo Stamps for Calendar Year 1993.
Discussed NARUC's concerns.
Mary Friddle had talked to Gray at NARUC.  Seems minimal.
Decided no further comments were needed.
4.  Terri Carlock's November 5, 1992 Decision Memorandum re:  Annual Determination of the Interest Rates on Deposits Collected from Customers for the Calendar Year 1993.
4% was approved.
5.  Birdelle Brown's November 2, 1992 Decision Memorandum re:  U S WEST-South Adv 92-12-S, Effective 11-30-92 Extends Custom Solutions Trial to May 31, 1993.
Approved.
9A.  U. S. West Advices re:  Customer Service Commitments.         
Approved.
**Don Howell was in attendance at this time.  Asked Commissioners about UPRR's request to withdraw application to close Moscow agency.  Don is to draw up order granting request.  
10.  Terri Carlock's November 5, 1992 Decision Memorandum re:  Pacificorp's Request for $500,000,000 Debt, Case No. PAC-S-92-6.
Approved.
11. Proposed Motor Carrier Rules Changes - Decision Memorandum from Mary Friddle.
Commissioner Smith said she didn't know enough about maximum tariff rates to decide on that.
Tonya Clark spoke to what the maximum tariff was.
Mike Gilmore said he didn't think it was legal under state law if you say it is fair.
Tonya Clark said so far it has held up.  Said the great thing about the maximum rate is you can go either way with it.
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Mary Friddle said it is a complaint from industry that prompted this.
Commissioner Miller asked - do we want rate regulation?
Mary Friddle suggested putting it out as proposed rule to find out what they want.
Tonya Clark said there are both factions out there, one of which is trying to run a legitimate business and wants to know what the rate is.
Commissioner Miller said whats best for the public is the main question.  He wasn't sure that we have any strong evidence either way that rate deregulation is resulting in unfair charges or consumer paying more than they should.
Tonya Clark said the sophisticated shippers love it because they are setting the rates.  The less sophisticated shipper is probably making up the difference.
Mary Friddle said one place we did run into program is is with the bankrupt companies.  Would be protecting the consumer with that.
Commissioner Miller asked if we knew how many shippers went bankrupt, is this a problem that is running rampant or does it just occur occasionally?
Marry Friddle said she couldn't give an exact number but Bob Horton has had quite a few complaints.
Tonya Clark said you also have the shippers that don't know that we exist.  That is why we are encouraging that if you go this route that you get blanket input.  Are going to have to go to hearings.
Commissioner Miller said if we propose these, we are really talking about significant change in regulatory policy.
Mary Friddle said it is significant.  That is why staff is suggesting hearings.
Commissioner Miller asked if anybody outside the building has seen these rules?
Mary Friddle said she told the Motor Carrier Advisory Committee that there are proposed changes coming.
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Commissioner Smith asked if there was any benefit in having some kind of workshop?  Work on them informally before going to hearing?  Asked how this would play into their hands?
Mary Friddle said she thought the Commission would see some of both.
Commissioner Smith said she wished she had a crystal ball.
Commissioner Nelson said he wondered what the chances are that people who don't like it will go to their legislators instead.  Would like them out for comment first.
Mike Gilmore said you are not going to get anything adopted by January 1.
Commissioner Nelson said - could explain to the legislature that these are proposed in response to industry concerns.
Commissioner Miller said he would like the order to recite all of that.
Commissioner Smith said when we put out the TRS rules we said we don't know what the answer it.  Could say that on the maximum tariff.
Mike Gilmore suggested that the 18 year rule be adopted January 1 and put the others out for comment.
Commissioner Miller said he has some hesitation about this project.  There are some circumstances where it is okay to put something out to see what happens.  Danger of that is you create a lot of uncertainty and then if you never end up changing anything it ends up looking like a relatively fruitless activity.  Have usually preferred when we propose rules that this is where the Commission should go when the process is done. In this case, is not at all sure that he thinks we should redo or restart rate regulation.  Not sure we need to create barriers to entry.  For that reason would like the order to try to make it clear that we are just putting these out for comment due to industry concern and it does not reflect concern of the Commission.
Commissioner Smith said she didn't think these clarifications were necessarily a barrier to entry.  Thought it was more clarification than restriction.
Discussed general commodities.
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Tonya Clark responded.  Said in reality they are not carrying everything and not going everywhere.  It would just be knowing what is going on.  
Mary Friddle said she has had people ask for a list of those who haul hazardous waste.  Can't tell them that.  Don't know for sure who carries it.
Commissioner Miller asked about amending all these permits?
Tonya Clark said she thought they should list what they haul.
Gary Richardson asked about workshops - had that idea been abandoned?
Mike Gilmore said workshops should include shippers also.
Commissioner Smith said the problem with publishing rule ahead of time is people get the impression it is already decided.
Suggested staff talk about how they think it should be worked.
Mike Gilmore suggested April 1 for implementation date.
Commissioner Smith said she wouldn't do anything formal until after the workshops.
Mike Gilmore suggested putting them out as "staff proposal" first.
Mary Friddle asked about the minor changes?
**Was decided to keep everything together in a packet.
Commissioner Miller suggested the cover letter that accompanies staff draft can explain the background and say this is an effort to send out a proposal responding to concerns.  Think that will be less of a hand grenade. Did comment that he still thought the categories were unfair.
Meeting adjourned at 2:30 p.m.
Myrna J. Walters
Commission Secretary
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