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Minutes of Decision Meeting
October 28, 1991 - 1:30 p.m.
In attendance:
Commissioners Marsha H. Smith, Joe Miller and Ralph Nelson and staff members Mike Gilmore, Don Howell, Tonya Clark, Bev Barker, Birdelle Brown, Gary Richardson, Brad Purdy, Belinda Anderson, Jim Long, Bill Eastlake and Myrna Walters. Also in attendance were Cathy Brightwell of AT&T, and Dan Poole, Jim Wozniak and Mary Hobson of U S West.
Items from the October 28, 1991 Decision Meeting Agenda were discussed as follows.
1. Regulated Carrier Division Agenda dated October 28, 1991.
Okayed.
2. Mike Gilmore's October 25, 1991 Decision Memorandum re: Reply to Letter from Robb Lewis of Boise Cascade.
Commissioner Nelson said it looked fine to him.
Okayed by all three commissioners.
3. UPRR Application to close six freight agencies - UP-RR-91-3.
Commissioner Miller asked Don Howell why they should add Kellogg to the agency closures?
Don Howell explained. The price tag of the agent at Wallace is $50,000. Is not suggesting taking a position yet but just to add it on commission's own motion. Reason it wasn't included was because they had an abandonment application in. In the railroad's verified statements they have put in for some unknown reason, Commission orders on freight agencies. Explained what he thought they would say. Said all he was suggesting is saying the commission is looking at Kellogg agency on their own motion, if shippers up there say we will give up agent if we can keep the line, plus the labor executive board hasn't protested in the case.
Commissioner Miller asked - do you think that because the commission may close agency in the future would be a reason for not including the numbers?
Commissioner Smith asked - doesn't that make those 4-year old orders relevant?
Don Howell said he didn't know for what purpose they are using those orders.
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Also in attendance at this time were: Lori Mann, Stephanie Miller, Lynn Anderson, Dave Schunke, Tom Faull, Randy Lobb and Eileen Benner.
Commissioner Miller said this sounded more like litigation strategy.
Other question to decide here, putting aside Kellogg agency, how do we want to review the petitions for the other agencies?
COmmissioner Smith said she liked modified procedure to see if shippers complain. Some might require hearings and some others not.
Tonya Clark said she was for going modified to see where they fall out but hope that we put something more than standard paragraph about hearing in there.
**Decision was to be more specific, asking for response. Change standard language.
Tonya Clark discussed the testimony attached to Don Howell's decision memo.
Commissioner Miller said an appropriately-drafted modified would be fine - modified, modified procedure.
**Agreed to by all three commissioners.
4. Randy Lobb's October 22, 1991 Decision Memorandum re: Suspension of GTE Tariff Advice 91-14, 911 Emergency Telephone Service.
Commissioner Smith moved suspension.
Commissioner Miller asked Randy Lobb if 60 days would be sufficient?
Commissioner Nelson asked - do they understand we needed a response before tomorrow?
Discussed the suspension time.
Commissioner Nelson asked - can we extend the suspension?
**Agreed on the 60 days.
5. Dave Schunke's October 18, 1991 Decision Memorandum re: Case No. UPL-E-91-2. Back on agenda per decision meeting 10-21-91.
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Commissioner Smith asked Dave Schunke if he had heard from NuWest or the company?
Dave Schunke said he didn't hear from NuWest. Company didn't care one way or the other. Explained what UPL response was.
Commissioner Miller asked - how long did NuWest have to respond?
Commissioner Smith asked if it went to Conley Ward?
Dave Schunke suggested waiting until next week.
**Conley Ward will be contacted.
**Matter will be back on the agenda Friday.
6. Mike Gilmore's October 24, 1991 Decision Memorandum re: Private Citizens' Complaints against AT&T concerning private line service--Case No. GNR-T-91-10.
Commissioner Miller reviewed the matter. Said decision wasn't made on procedure or substance. Asked about one of the complainants.
Birdelle Brown explained that there was a new system offering service now. With that in mind, two companies have approached the complainants and as a result of this, the bank has withdrawn their complaint.
Unofficially two of the four complaining people have decided to use dial up modem. The other four people are waiting for decision.
Commissioner Miller said for our purposes, one or more of the complaints are still pending. At this point the whole thing hasn't gone away.
The central question at the prehearing conference had to do with jurisdiction. AT&T says their private line is totally deregulated. Think that argument took commissioners and Mike Gilmore off-guard. Didn't try to decide it but deferred until today to see if we want to continue with jurisdiction question or some other course.
Asked Mike Gilmore if we proceed more formally on jurisdiction and asked for briefs, would you have more to say than at the prehearing?
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Mike Gilmore said yes. He passed around his position statement. Said he would argue that the Commission has jurisdiction.
Commissioner Miller said suppose our options at this point would be to invite further formal comments on jurisdiction to decide at this point whether or not we have jurisdiction. Would say before making that decision would give everyone another opportunity. Third option would be to informally tell the complainants that we couldn't produce results better than what has been offered. Guessed his opinion goes along with what Commissioner Nelson's is. Question is significant enough that we ought to get to the bottom of it.
Commissioner Nelson said what started out small is growing.
Mike Gilmore went over his outline. Didn't necessarily think customers will come out better.
Commissioner Nelson said even if we find jurisdiction, isn't the only question the 10 days notice?
Mike Gilmore said there is no guarantee the customer is going to come out better.
Commissioner Miller said we could find that the new pricing schedule is so adverse...no guarantee the price will go back to what it was.
Birdelle Brown said the customers know that.
Commissioner Nelson said they want to wait because they are getting the old rate now.
Commissioner Miller said he thought these people need their eyes opened.
Mike Gilmore commented it could be worse also.
Commissioner Smith said she thought it was an interesting issue but would like to not decide it but guess we probably will have to. Think the complaints are separate from whether or not we have jurisdiction.
Commissioner Nelson said if we decided they had no legitimate complaint, jurisdiction wouldn't be too important.
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Commissioner Miller said if you come to that conclusion, would have to have a factual hearing.
Commissioner Smith said if you had some demonstration and were viable alternatives you might find it necessary to assert jurisdiction.
Discussed the alternatives.
Birdelle Brown said there are two new alternatives.
Commissioner Nelson asked if it was a viable alternative?
Birdelle Brown explained. If they upgrade their service the cost will go down about 50%.
Commissioner Miller said it sounds like the facts aren't firmly fixed. Could ask for briefs and comments on jurisdiction question and in 30 days something else will be different.
Commissioner Smith asked - are we also going to ask for affidavits on alternative services and what they cost?
Suggested with viable alternatives don't have to assert jurisdiction.
Commissioner Miller said it sounded like that is one of the things that is still evolving.
Mike Gilmore said he could file his brief Wednesday.
**Give AT&T and anyone else in the case two weeks to respond.
COmmissioner Miller said he didn't mind seeing the arguments, finding out about alternative providers. Could that be submitted in an affidavit by Birdelle Brown?
Birdelle Brown would like something in writing from the alternative carriers.
Mike Gilmore could file brief on Wednesday and give Birdelle Brown two weeks to file her affidavit. November 13 for Birdelle Brown - others by November 27.
**Don Oliason was in attendance at this time.
7. Don Howell's October 25, 1991 Decision Memorandum re: GTE's Petition for Reconsideration Concerning Dial Data Link Service, Case No. GTE-T-91-3.
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Commissioner Nelson said it looked okay to him. The level of line access was important. Said he thought it was an interesting question and see this as a "quick fix".
Commissioner Miller asked why we ultimately came to this decision?
Don Howell said it was just an inquiry on Commissioner Smith's part, should we consider it to be a certain standard?
Commissioner Miller said he thought there was a question of how many customers.
Commissioner Nelson said it is an interesting question but don't think this tariff is the way to start investigation. If it takes 6 months, these people would have to wait.
Commissioner smith said she thought it is a company by company question.
Don Howell explained this is a loop question.
Randy Lobb said in order to guarantee a standard, you would have to look at everything involved. Explained the problems company by company. Even though a lot of loops would handle it, there would be those that did not. It would be costly.
Commissioner Miller said somehow would like to see this issue pursued. Would probably be a non-issue in U. S. West territory. In other areas it may be an issue.
**Adequate standard for data transmission.
Commissioner Miller said another way to look at it is for legislative report, got what the capabilities of the company are. Maybe this should be a minimum standard for all companies.
Don Howell asked about GTE asking if customer wants to take the line as insurance even if they have quality, what should Commission say.
**Will ignore it.
8. Lori Mann's October 25, 1991 Decision Memorandum re: Petition for EAS Between Albion Telephone Company and U S West's Burley Exchange--Case Nos. ALB-T-89-2; MTB-T-89-9,
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Commissioner Nelson asked - is the situation that Metropac isn't available to customers of Albion?
Lori Mann explained what the Albion customers have - Call Thrift and Volume Discount.
Commissioner Miller asked even though our decision is only yes or no, and not SHOTS?
Belinda Anderson explained what SHOTS is. Instead of being offered by U. S. West it would be offered by Albion. The specifics of the program are difficult to explain because they haven't been nailed down by the companies. It is like Metropac and it would be optional.
Lori Mann said we got stuck on that and that is why we went to prehearing.
**SHOTS is an idea of Albion and there is no agreement at this time.
Commissioner Miller asked - what are the sticking points?
Belinda Anderson explained there were several. The real question was whether or not under the other program if Albion became a toll carrier, would that affect USF? Explained Albion's position. There were several unresolved questions.
Commissioner Miller said there is a lot he didn't understand about that.
Commissioner Smith said she would require the companies to install the FX lines to the schools and deny EAS. Things that stood out in her mind in the memo are on Page 12, the average toll bills (quoted from that) and the fact that they have intra-company EAS on the Albion exchanges and 1/3 as many against as for it. In her mind those are pretty significant factors from other cases where it has been granted.
Commissioner Miller said he thought testimony of those opposing it is worthy of consideration, don't know about their testimony.
Commissioner Smith said there would be some increase and question is how much.
Commissioner Miller said he didn't think they understood the USF possibility.
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Lori Mann spoke to Redman's questionnaire. Thought a lot of people are operating under misconceptions.
Commissioner Miller said on one hand, he leaned to Commissioner Smith's position but as a general matter toward these things, the historic attitude has been high toll bills due to remoteness. Commission should only change that in compelling circumstances. After listening to the testimony in this case and Buhl, think you could conclude the health of these dependent communities, small rural communities are dependent on large cities, does depend on communications.. you could say start from that same premise and promoting that access is important and going away from EAS ... try to do more to stimulate competition by having multiple carriers and in that way get to cheaper access.
Commissioner Smith asked how you would promote competition in these communities?
Discussed SHOTS.
Commissioner Smith said the only way to promote competition would be to lower access rates... it is a Catch 22.
Commissioner Nelson asked about the volume not being enough for discounts, how could that stimulate competition? Gets down to the community of interest standard.
Lori Mann explained one of Lynn Anderson's alternatives was Declo EAS.
Commissioner Miller said an FX line was an alternative.
Commissioner Nelson asked how many customers in the Declo exchange?
Looked at Exhibit 1.
Commissioner Miller commented - here they are part of the same community. View Albion area as pretty well identifiable in their own right. There ought to be something we can do for these dependent communities that don't meet usual test.
Commissioner Nelson said if you look at that next page, 86% of the customers make less than 1.33 a month to Declo.
Belinda Anderson said that doesn't include the collect calls.
Lynn Anderson said that average is all 5 communities. Burley is the community of interest.
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Commissioner Nelson said he thought an FX line would solve problem of school or kids calling.
Commissioner Smith said she didn't have any idea of how to accommodate these communities.
Discussed the percentages.
Commissioner Nelson said those don't even come close to Eden/Hazelton.
Commissioner Miller said it would be tough to justify under traditional EAS test but traditional EAS test doesn't solve what he sees as a problem.
Commissioner Smith said we don't any longer have authority to fashion toll alternatives.
Commissioner Nelson said lets deny EAS and look at SHOTS.
Belinda Anderson said looking at SHOTS there are areas that are deregulated.
Commissioner Nelson said what we were going to do before looking at SHOTS was EAS.
**Deny EAS and put in FX line.
Commissioner Smith said in McCammon also put in payphone.
Commissioner Miller asked - how would we then proceed to look at SHOTS?
Lori Mann said she didn't know if SHOTS was the answer. There were so many problems with it.
Commissioner Miller said we have in hand the old 1990 testimony on that. Is that testimony in such shape that other parties could respond to that?
Belinda Anderson said it would require concessions.
Commissioner Nelson said maybe you could supplement that with taking one of the currently available options.
Asked Belinda Anderson if most of the whole volume customers were day time?
Belinda Anderson said she could get information from Albion.
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Commissioner Miller said from a procedural point, to look at SHOTS, could get testimony from companies, staff, rebuttal from Albion. Or could have prehearing conference to see what to do next.
Dan Poole commented - think a prehearing conference would be helpful to see if Albion would be willing to file some more information. It would at least be nice if what they are responding to is an actual service offering.
Commissioner Nelson will work with Lori Mann for a date for a prehearing conference in these cases.
**Commissioner Miller suggested that in the order Lori Mann indicate that the denial of EAS is preliminary or tentative if SHOTS is not feasible and EAS is the only alternative, may re-evaluate it.
Adjourned at 3:00 p.m.
Dated at Boise, Idaho, this 22nd day of January.
Myrna J. Walters
Commission Secretary
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