20230404Customer Hearing Transcript Vol I.pdf

BEFORE THE IDAHO PUBLIC UTILITIES COMMISSION
IN THE MATTER OF THE APPLICATION )OF VEOLIA WATER IDAHO INC.FOR )CASE NO.VEO-W-22-02AUTHORITYTOINCREASEITSRATES)AND CHARGES FOR WATER SERVICE IN )THE STATE OF IDAHO )
BEFORE
COMMISSIONER ERIC ANDERSON (Presiding)
COMMISSIONER JOHN HAMMOND
COMMISSIONER EDWARD LODGE
PLACE:Commission Hearing Room11331WestChindenBlvd.Building 8,Suite 201-ABoise,Idaho
DATE:March 27,2023
VOLUME I -Pages 1 -40
CSB REPORTINGORIGINALCertgiedShorthandReporters
PostOfficeBox9774
Boise,Iddio 83707 Reporter:[e-mail] Constance Bucy,Ph:208-890-5198 CSR
1 A PPE A R A NCES
2
3 For the Staff:Chris BurdinDeputyAttorney General
4 IPUC
11331 W.Chinden Blvd.,
5 Bldg.No.8,Suite 201-A
PO Box 83720
6 Boise,Idaho 83720-0074
7
For Veolia Water Idaho:Preston N.Carter
8 (Of Record)Morgan D.Goodin
Givens Pursley LLP
9 601 W.Bannock Street
Boise,Idaho 83702
10
11 For Ada County:Meg Waddel
Ada County Prosecuting
12 Attorney's Office/Civil
Division
13 200 W.Front Street,Room 3191Boise,ID 83702
14
15 For Sharon M.Ullman:Sharon M.Ullman,pro se
5991 E.Black Gold Street
16 Boise,ID 83716
17
For Micron Technology:Austin Rueschhoff
18 (Of Record)Holland &Hart,LLP
555 17th Street,Suite 3200
19 Denver,CO 80202
20
For City of Boise:Mary R.Grant
21 (Of Record)Deputy City Attorney
Boise City Attorney's Office
22 105 N.Capitol Blvd.
PO Box 500
23 Boise,ID 83701-0500
24
25
CSB REPORTING 2 APPEARANCES208.890.5198
1 I NDEX
2
3 WITNESS EXAMINATION BY PAGE
4 Scott McDougall Statement 8(Public)Ms.Ullman (Cross)11
5
Tabitha Fuerstenau Statement 12
6 (Public)Ms.Ullman (Cross)16
7 Lee Joe Lay Statement 18(Public)
8
Steve Kisley Statement 22
9 (Public)Ms.Ullman (Cross)25
10 Kevin Williamson Statement 27(Public)
11
Suzanne Knorr Statement 31
12 (Public)Ms.Ullman (Cross)33
13 Joel Festerly Statement 35(Public)
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
CSB REPORTING 3 INDEX208.890.5198
1 BOISE,IDAHO,MONDAY,MARCH 27,2023,6:00 P.M.
2
3
4 COMMISSIONER ANDERSON:Thank you very
5 much everyone and good evening.This is the time and
6 place for a customer hearing in Case No.VEO-W-22-02,
7 also referred to as in the matter of the application of
8 Veolia Water Company Idaho for authority to increase its
9 rates and charges for water service in the State of
10 Idaho.
11 I'm going to read --I'm reading a
12 little bit slower because Connie has reminded me I need
13 to read a little bit slower.The purpose of this hearing
14 is to take testimony from members of the public in
15 reference to Veolia Water's request that was filed with
16 the Commission on September 30th,2022.
17 My name is Commissioner Eric Anderson.
18 I'm the Chair of tonight's proceedings and I'm joined by
19 Commissioner Hammond to my left and Commissioner Edward
20 Lodge to my right.We comprise the Commission in this
21 case that will collectively make the final determination
22 in this matter.
23 To this point,several parties have
24 intervened and a public workshop has been held by both
25 the Company and the Public Utilities Commission.
CSB REPORTING 4 COLLOQUY
208.890.5198
1 Tonight's objective is to take live testimony which will
2 be added to the underlying record in the case.The
3 Commissioners will review facts and evidence in the
4 record to make its final decision to these proceedings.
5 For those of you that are wishing to
6 submit written comments,the deadline is Friday,April
7 7th,at 5:00 p.m.,and we have comment sheets available
8 in the lobby and you may leave them with our Public
9 Information Officer Adam Rush,if you would raise your
10 hand,and he will take those and file them.
11 We have not very many people signed up to
12 speak this evening,so I do not believe we will put time
13 constraints.Anybody that goes too long we'll give a
14 little nudge and ask you to speed it up,but I think
15 we'll be fine.
16 As far as the procedure goes this evening,
17 I will call your name from the sign-up sheets and you
18 will take the stand and I will swear you in and ask you
19 to raise your right hand and swear or affirm that the
20 testimony you're providing will be the whole truth.The
21 Deputy Attorney General will then ask you to identify
22 yourself for the record,which will include your name,
23 spelling of your last name,your city of residence,and
24 whether you are a customer of Veolia Water.Then you may
25 present your testimony.
CSB REPORTING 5 COLLOQUY208.890.5198
1 Please remain seated to see if the parties
2 or the Commissioners have any questions,and the parties
3 would be the intervenors who are sitting in these front
4 tables here and after that you will be excused.
5 I want to take this opportunity to remind
6 anyone who plans to offer testimony tonight that the
7 substance of your testimony should focus on the matters
8 being decided in this case.Any testimony that focuses
9 on policy issues that we as economic regulators do not
10 have the authority over or the ability to change should
11 be directed instead to the appropriate decision making
12 bodies that are out there.
13 While we invite and encourage anyone who
14 wishes to testify to do so tonight,we want to respect
15 the time of those who came prepared to testify on the
16 merits of this case.As you provide your testimony
17 tonight,please remember that the proper decorum of this
18 proceeding is similar to a courtroom.Your comments
19 should be directed to the Commissioners and not members
20 of the audience.
21 For those in the audience,we ask you to
22 refrain from reacting to any testimony while it is being
23 presented.I know sometimes you'll want to applaud or
24 different things,but let's refrain from that,no
25 clapping,no verbal comment.
CSB REPORTING 6 COLLOQUY208.890.5198
1 Since our cases are judicial in nature,we
2 have a court reporter,Connie Bucy,so don't speak too
3 softly or too quickly or she will correct you and ask you
4 to slow down or speak up.
5 The transcript is necessary,because in a
6 quasi-judicial role,we must base our decisions on the
7 official record of which this is a part of,and that
8 record is also significant in the event that our decision
9 is appealed.
10 The appearance of the parties tonight,we
11 have the Applicant Veolia Water who's present.Please
12 identify yourself.
13 MR.THOMPSON:My name is Marshall
14 Thompson.I'm vice president and general manager of
15 Veolia Water Idaho Incorporated.
16 COMMISSIONER ANDERSON:Thank you and
17 welcome.We have the Staff of the Idaho Public
18 Utilities.
19 MR.BURDIN:Thank you,Mr.Chair.My
20 name is Chris Burdin.I'm the Deputy Attorney General
21 representing Commission Staff in this case.
22 COMMISSIONER ANDERSON:Thank you,
23 Mr.Burdin.We have Ada County.
24 MS.WADDEL:My name is Meg Waddel.I'm
25 the Deputy Prosecuting Attorney for Ada County.
CSB REPORTING 7 COLLOQUY208.890.5198
1 COMMISSIONER ANDERSON:Thank you.Boise
2 City?Micron Technology?Sharon Ullman?
3 MS.ULLMAN:Sharon Ullman,member of the
4 public.
5 COMMISSIONER ANDERSON:Thank you,Sharon.
6 Are there any other parties to the case that I have
7 failed to recognize for the record this evening?Seeing
8 none,with that,we are ready to call our first witness,
9 and on my list let me call Scott McDougall.
10
11 SCOTT McDOUGALL,
12 appearing as a public witness,having been duly sworn,
13 was examined and testified as follows:
14
15 EXAMINATION
16
17 BY MR.BURDIN:
18 Q Would you please state your name and spell
19 your last name for the record?
20 A Scott McDougall,M-c-D-o-u-g-a-l-1.
21 Q And where do you reside?
22 A 4455 North McKenzie Lane,Boise,Idaho.
23 Q And are you a customer of the Company?
24 A Yes.
25 Q Thank you.Go ahead,please.
CSB REPORTING 8 McDOUGALL
208.890.5198 Public
1 A Well,thank you very much for this
2 opportunity,Mr.Chairman,members.I was apprised of
3 this case due to some customer service issues.I would
4 like to thank Mr.Hecht of your Staff for helping me out
5 with those.This is just --I have no detail to go into
6 on this case,but I have an overview.
7 I saw an article in the Statesman on March
8 25th,2023.Madeline Wyatt,a spokesman for Veolia,
9 Veolia,told the Idaho Statesman by phone,"The 24
10 percent sounds like a huge amount of money.Yes,it does
11 and it is."The article goes on to note that "Veolia
12 acquired Suez,"and it was early in 2022 and that's what
13 piqued my interest,because it's only been about a year
14 and I read on that in the application,Veolia had spent
15 $70 million and wanted to be reimbursed approximately at
16 a rate of about $12 million a year over the next six
17 years.
18 You have to consider that.They spent 70
19 million in improvements in just one year,so in just 12
20 months,they sent out to their engineers --they sent
21 their engineers out to look at the entire system,
22 identified all the improvements that were needed,
23 scheduled the work,budgeted the work,and completed the
24 work,in 12 months from scratch.
25 That is highly unlikely.Most likely they
CSB REPORTING 9 McDOUGALL
208.890.5198 Public
1 knew there were going to be improvements needed,which
2 they should because they did due diligence before
3 acquiring Suez,one would hope,so they know going into
4 negotiations that they need $70 million of improvements,
5 which they would put on the table and they would take
6 that off of the purchase offer,so it's already being
7 considered.It's already been spent and it's already
8 been recovered in the purchase price reduction.
9 The only alternative that I can think of
10 is they didn't do actual due diligence.They didn't know
11 about it and if that's the case,if they didn't go into
12 the purchase negotiation knowing that $70 million in
13 improvements were needed,then that's on them.That's
14 not on the ratepayers,so I am speaking in opposition to
15 the request for the rate increase.
16 COMMISSIONER ANDERSON:Thank you,
17 Mr.McDougall.
18 THE WITNESS:Thank you.
19 COMMISSIONER ANDERSON:Do We have any
20 questions from the intervenors?Ms.Ullman.
21 MS.ULLMAN:Thank you,Mr.Chairman.
22
23
24
25
CSB REPORTING 10 McDOUGALL
208.890.5198 Public
1 CROSS-EXAMINATION
2
3 BY MS.ULLMAN:
4 Q Mr.McDougall,for the record,I'm
5 curious,you seem to know a lot about project
6 construction,if you would care to,would you like to
7 give a little bit about your background where you would
8 be knowledgeable about how long it would take to analyze
9 a system like a water system and spend $70 million within
10 an approximately 12-month period?
11 A Ms.Ullman,not a great deal and none in
12 the water delivery business,but in the 80's and 90's,I
13 did work for the SBA liquidation office and I had a lot
14 of companies that came into our possession,which I had
15 to evaluate and then sell,and prior to that,I also
16 worked for a venture capital firm doing much the same.
17 MS.ULLMAN:Thank you.
18 THE WITNESS:Thank you.
19 COMMISSIONER ANDERSON:Thank you.Any
20 other questions?Thank you for your testimony tonight.
21 THE WITNESS:Thank you.
22 (The witness left the stand.)
23 COMMISSIONER ANDERSON:Next we have
24 Tabitha Fuerstenau.
25 COMMISSIONER ANDERSON:I'm sorry about
CSB REPORTING 11 McDOUGALL (X)208.890.5198 Public
1 the mispronouncing of the name.
2 MS.FUERSTENAU:No worries.It's
3 Fuerstenau.
4
5 TABITHA FUERSTENAU,
6 appearing as a public witness,having been duly sworn,
7 was examined and testified as follows:
8
9 COMMISSIONER ANDERSON:Please give us
10 your testimony.
11 THE WITNESS:Okay.
12
13 EXAMINATION
14
15 BY MR.BURDIN:
16 Q Will you please state your name and spell
17 your last name for the record?
18 A Tabitha Fuerstenau,F-u-e-r-s-t-e-n-a-u.
19 Q And where do you reside?
20 A Boise,Idaho.
21 Q And are you a customer of the company?
22 A Yes,I am.
23 Q Go ahead,please.
24 A All right.First off,thank you.This is
25 my first time in a forum like this,so I appreciate --I
CSB REPORTING 12 FUERSTENAU
208.890.5198 Public
1 had to double-check that it was for the public because we
2 might be missing here a little bit.I as well read the
3 article about the 24 percent rate hike.I understand
4 that the spokesperson said it's like a cup of coffee,
5 it's not a big deal.It's not a big deal when you are a
6 person who has.It is a big deal when you are a person
7 who does not have.
8 There are people in Southwest Boise who go
9 tonight to get food boxes,so a company --sorry,I have
10 the notes here.
11 COMMISSIONER ANDERSON:Please take your
12 time.You don't need to be nervous.Just take your time
13 and read your notes if you need to.
14 THE WITNESS:The CEO commented,and this
15 was based on Business Wire,it is an exceptional year for
16 Veolia marked by the acquisition of Suez.I am
17 particularly proud of the performance we have achieved in
18 both the terms of activity and the results.We have been
19 able to adapt the many geopolitical,economic,and energy
20 challenges of 2022 to deliver historic results for the
21 group.Historic,I want us to understand that.
22 After a pandemic we're coming out and then
23 they're achieving historic results.While successfully
24 bringing together 40,000 Suez colleagues that have joined
25 us,we have already seen the first fruits of this with
CSB REPORTING 13 FUERSTENAU208.890.5198 Public
1 synergies well ahead of our plan and beyond that.That
2 was before this rate hike.They're already seeing
3 aptitudes so much more beyond that.
4 We are putting the vision into action to
5 build together the world champion of ecological
6 transformation.It goes on to talk about the EBITDA.
7 That's the earnings before interest,tax deductions of
8 7.2 percent and an EBITDA of 16.3 with a current net
9 income of 29.7,which exceeded all of our objectives,so
10 they have put a financial objective on their Company and
11 they're already exceeding that.
12 If they're already exceeding that with an
13 investment like that,coming in and then saying that the
14 people who did not have a choice in these rate hikes,
15 it's not like we can choose where we go and get our
16 water.We can choose when there are things like
17 inflation happening.You can go and get your groceries
18 at WinCo versus Albertsons.We can't choose where we get
19 our water,so when there are things that the mass
20 majority of the customers don't understand and decisions
21 are being made for them,it's hard to read the financials
22 that you can go out to Wall Street Journal.Wall Street
23 Journal was showing the quarterly income statements of
24 under 400 million for Veolia in 2018.In 2022,they're
25 almost 800.
CSB REPORTING 14 FUERSTENAU
208.890.5198 Public
1 Then you look at their balance sheet,in
2 '18,they are about 40 billion and now in 2022,they're
3 going to be at 80,so when you see those things and then
4 cash flow,you look at their cash flow pre-pandemic,you
5 were below 2.7 and now they're going to be at 3.6 and now
6 they're asking for more.That's from every individual
7 customer.People don't have that to give.
8 The company that owns this is owned by
9 other companies who are looking to continue to increase
10 their profits.The people of Idaho are already
11 struggling.There are people out there we see every day.
12 I am Idaho born and raised and I don't want to see my
13 neighbors struggle,so I ask if this is the largest water
14 company in the world who is already asking for more rate
15 hikes prior to doing infrastructure changes in New York,
16 why did they do it after here in Idaho?
17 I just ask you to think about the people
18 here in these communities who don't know where to come,
19 don't know where to speak and don't know how to speak on
20 this.This is my first time,but a 24 percent?When
21 people just say it's just Starbucks,not everyone even
22 has money for Starbucks,so please consider that when
23 you're thinking about it,because when you have it,it's
24 easy to say it's nothing,but when you don't have it,it
25 is something,and all the people in Idaho are looking to
CSB REPORTING 15 FUERSTENAU208.890.5198 Public
1 you to all really understand the impacts that this can
2 make.If people don't care,then let people give it
3 freely.Don't force them to pay for something we didn't
4 ask for.Thank you.
5 COMMISSIONER ANDERSON:Thank you very
6 much.Are there any questions?Ms.Ullman.
7 MS.ULLMAN:Thank you,Mr.Chairman.
8
9 CROSS-EXAMINATION
10
11 BY MS.ULLMAN:
12 Q Ms.Fuerstenau,I would ask the same
13 question,if there's anything that you would like to add
14 to the record about your background since you sound like
15 you have a lot of empathy for people who are struggling
16 and some knowledge about where to look for financial
17 information about very big water companies.
18 A Yeah,so first off,I do want to say I
19 have a sister who is disabled and who is on social
20 security disability.That means she gets less than
21 $1,000 a month.She has to live with her children,her
22 grown children,because she can't make rent.She's
23 disabled.She doesn't have the ability to fight for
24 herself,so when there are things that are out of her
25 control,she doesn't know to come here,I want to be her
CSB REPORTING 16 FUERSTENAU (X)
208.890.5198 Public
1 voice.
2 I have a niece who is disabled who lives
3 with her older sister because she can't live on her own.
4 I want to help be her voice,so I know from that because
5 I came from poverty and this great state helped me get
6 here,get my education.I have an accounting degree,so
7 I understand the numbers.I unfortunately don't work in
8 a public setting where I can help fight for this,but I
9 think it's really important when you have to do that
10 research on your own and you have limited time on what
11 you can pull up and what you can research,so what I have
12 done is searched the things that are available to people
13 to understand.
14 If I could have gone into more,I would
15 have looked at bonus structures to understand where are
16 they going to hit next,because obviously,working for a
17 public company,you have to have a certain return.They
18 had record breaking last year.That means that the CEO
19 wants to break it again to have another one,but when
20 there are people struggling,that isn't,so I come from
21 understanding poverty,working through it and then also
22 understanding what the financials are behind it in a
23 basic company.
24 COMMISSIONER ANDERSON:Thank you.Are
25 there any other questions?Thank you for your testimony.
CSB REPORTING 17 FUERSTENAU (X)208.890.5198 Public
1 (The witness left the stand.)
2 COMMISSIONER ANDERSON:Next we have Lee
3 Joe Lay.
4
5 LEE JOE LAY,
6 appearing as a public witness,having been first duly
7 sworn,testified as follows:
8
9 EXAMINATION
10
11 BY MR.BURDIN:
12 Q Would you please state your name and spell
13 your last name for the record?
14 A Lee Joe Lay.L-a-y is my last name.
15 Q Where do you reside?
16 A 7109 Northview Street,Boise,Idaho.
17 Q And are you a customer of the Company?
18 A I'm a former customer of the Company and
19 there's a reason why I live where I live now.
20 Q Please go ahead.
21 A All right.First off,I am a heavy
22 construction superintendent.I am an expert in water
23 installation.I've worked with Suez and Veolia on
24 different projects,and what I have to say is I was a
25 city council candidate in 2009 and this was one of my
CSB REPORTING 18 LAY208.890.5198 Public
1 major --I should probably slow down because I'm about to
2 go faster.
3 COMMISSIONER ANDERSON:You may be seated
4 if you wish to.
5 THE WITNESS:This was one of my major
6 issues was the water rates in Boise under United Water
7 and Suez and now Veolia.I see the water projects,one
8 of the water projects,they've undertaken in the last
9 short while.It's a large water tank over in Hidden
10 Springs to help with the increased demand on subdivisions
11 that I built over there,which was entirely or can
12 entirely be recovered with their current billing rates.
13 Where I live now,I live in Capitol Water
14 District,and Capitol Water in 20 years has increased
15 their water rate from $25.00 per month for unlimited,
16 unmetered water to $35.00 per month for unlimited,
17 unmetered water.They fix lines.They keep safe water.
18 They do all the same things that Veolia does,and when I
19 lived under United Water/Suez and now Veolia,my rate to
20 have a small garden per month was over $135 per month.
21 Their fees are exorbitant and
22 unjustifiable and whenever the PUC raises their
23 allowance,the cities in the area raise theirs as well.
24 They're kind of the bellwether,so Meridian will raise
25 its water rate and everyone will come up with a
CSB REPORTING 19 LAY
208.890.5198 Public
1 justification to increase their water rates so that
2 Veolia seems to be competitive;however,they are owned
3 by a French corporate conglomerate.
4 As the previous person testified,it's a
5 humongous company and it's a foreign-owned company and
6 the shareholders of that company,the larger shareholders
7 of that company,are actually Arab oil sheiks,so we have
8 this situation where Arab oil sheiks control the water
9 that the people of Boise drink and demand these,you
10 know --and when you have a $70 million input cost
11 without any competitive restriction on what you do and
12 then you come to the PUC and say we want our $70 million
13 back and we never asked your permission to spend it in
14 the first place,that gives them no incentive not to
15 spend another $70 million tomorrow or the next day,and
16 so I see this as another part of the exorbitant rate
17 hikes that Veolia has and the previous companies have in
18 the past done.
19 I have nothing against the local people
20 that work here at Veolia,they work hard,but even with
21 their construction policy,they have had sole provider
22 contractors who are the sole contractor to provide new
23 construction,new water line construction,and it just
24 makes this monopoly monolith even worse to compete
25 against,because those companies who get that bid end up
CSB REPORTING 20 LAY208.890.5198 Public
1 just knowing that they can charge X when there are people
2 who will actually do it for less,same quality.
3 Long story short,they have been gouging
4 the people of Boise.If you drive through Boise and you
5 see a dead yard,it's a renter who cannot afford the
6 water.I find that to be true most of the time.Their
7 water rates decrease the quality of life and the quality
8 of property in the city and I think that they should be
9 disbanded as a corporate entity in Idaho for the things
10 that they have done to the people of Boise and will be
11 doing to the people of Eagle who they just bought a
12 section of Eagle Water who I previously worked for.
13 I find it to be corporate greed in the
14 most extreme,egregious.I could add more words,but it
15 is not an Idaho value to have a French conglomerate
16 control a local state resource and charge basically per
17 barrel oil prices for the water that comes out of the
18 ground that I get,again,unmetered for $35.00 a month
19 from a company that has to do the exact same thing;
20 provide water,provide for new customers,replace pumps,
21 replace water lines,and it's amazing to me that they
22 have not been held in check.
23 Anything else?Any questions?
24 COMMISSIONER ANDERSON:Thank you,
25 Mr.Lay,very much.Do we have any questions from
CSB REPORTING 21 LAY
208.890.5198 Public
1 intervenors?Hearing none,thank you for your testimony.
2 (The witness left the stand.)
3 COMMISSIONER ANDERSON:Steve Kisley.May
4 I have your name,sir?
5 MR.KISLEY:Steve Kisley,K-i-s-l-e-y.
6 COMMISSIONER ANDERSON:Okay,thank you.
7
8 STEVE KISLEY,
9 appearing as a public witness,having been first duly
10 sworn,testified as follows:
11
12 COMMISSIONER ANDERSON:Chris?
13
14 EXAMINATION
15
16 BY MR.BURDIN:
17 Q Where do you reside?
18 A In Avimor and Kevin has to help me.I
19 have Parkinson's,so I struggle and I have no background
20 in any of this.I'm a new resident in the state.We
21 bought here in Avimor and love it.We love everything
22 about Idaho,and we were just talking with my daughter
23 and son-in-law last night and they mentioned what Kevin
24 was going to do and I said I would like to go along and
25 listen.When I heard it was 24 percent,I didn't know
CSB REPORTING 22 KISLEY
208.890.5198 Public
1 anything about the background and the numbers and
2 everything else,I said that's unheard of.
3 I can't imagine any place I've ever heard
4 of having a 24 percent increase in price on people like
5 us that are fixed income.I'm 83 years old.I don't
6 have resources.I can't go out and bring that into the
7 budget and when you build a house out here,you find that
8 it's difficult to pay your bills,just to live,just to
9 live.An extravagant life,it's a nice life.It's a
10 great life,but I worked hard for it and I don't have any
11 recourse for a 24 or 55 percent increase,whatever that
12 might be,or even a 30 percent or 20 percent.
13 Hearing the numbers that have been put out
14 by the people here that know what they're talking about,
15 I don't know what I'm talking about,but I'm talking
16 about just an increase that seems a whim.I think we can
17 get it pushed on through here because we didn't do our
18 due diligence.We can build it our way because no one
19 pays attention at these meetings and we'll get our way
20 like we always do.
21 Big money always gets big money,but I
22 don't have big money.I worked long and hard so I can
23 live for the next few years,so I think it's
24 unconscionable and I think if action isn't taken,it's a
25 great injustice to the public,because people like me
CSB REPORTING 23 KISLEY
208.890.5198 Public
1 haven't been exposed to this,because people typically
2 like me don't pay attention to the notices and the news,
3 so I mean,if you should do that,you should send a
4 letter to every customer advising them of what's going on
5 and why it's happening.
6 Let the customer document what it is that
7 justifies this 24 percent increase and what's to ensure
8 against not another 10 percent increase the next year or
9 15 percent increase the next year after that,and there
10 needs to take a responsibility of our government to
11 enforce this,to partner up with the provider to make
12 things easy to contract things.I've dealt with those in
13 my past life in business.I know what that's like.
14 It's good we all have good partnership
15 with them to be able to do well and so forth and so on
16 and it's not really about the customer itself,because
17 once they're in,they're trapped.They don't have an
18 outcome,so I don't know where the piece comes in that
19 represents somebody like me,so I'm just a piece in the
20 wind and I haven't been here a year yet,and I would
21 never have known about it unless Kevin and I were talking
22 about it and I said,well,I'll go along just to listen.
23 I didn't know I was going to be a participant,so that's
24 really what I want to say.
25 COMMISSIONER ANDERSON:Thank you very
CSB REPORTING 24 KISLEY
208.890.5198 Public
1 much,Mr.Kisley.Is there any questions here?
2 Ms.Ullman.
3
4 CROSS-EXAMINATION
5
6 BY MS.ULLMAN:
7 Q I'm going to ask the same question,
8 Mr.Chairman,Mr.Kisley,thank you for being here.Is
9 there anything that you'd like to share about your
10 background,how hard you worked I understand to get here
11 and enjoy these years,anything that you would like to
12 share in terms of your perception on this water rate
13 increase of 24 plus percent?
14 A Well,my business,I was with the Xerox
15 Corporation for 38 years in sales management.I managed
16 large sales groups and divisions and so I know what the
17 corporate relationship is with their customers and I know
18 that a company like Xerox,their customers,we were
19 deeply involved with meeting their needs and requirements
20 and their judgment for what they needed to do to make a
21 difference.
22 That's a whole different ball game.
23 There's a lot of politics here because there's so much
24 money here,and if people say there's no politics that's
25 in play,that's baloney.We all know --at least I
CSB REPORTING 25 KISLEY 90208.890.5198 Public
1 believe that.Do I have a document that shows that I can
2 prove it,but the general concept is we'll rip them off
3 for as much we can get and once you're in there,we're
4 living in [inaudible]we're able to pay for,but the
5 water bill,that might force you to have to figure out
6 how you're going to live,and at this stage of life,I
7 don't want to do that,and like the entry price coming in
8 sometime too,the same thing.How are the people going
9 to make it now that they had free water for $35.00,
10 whatever,that's amazing.Does it go from that 35 to 75?
11 I just know how things work right if they work ethically
12 and there's good care and balance for the end customer.
13 The end customer is the one here that has to be served,
14 not ripped off.
15 COMMISSIONER ANDERSON:Thank you,
16 Mr.Kisley.Any other questions?
17 (The witness left the stand.)
18 COMMISSIONER ANDERSON:Next we have Kevin
19 Williamson.
20
21
22
23
24
25
CSB REPORTING 26 KISLEY (X)
208.890.5198 Public
1 KEVIN WILLIAMSON,
2 appearing as a public witness,having been first duly
3 sworn,testified as follows:
4
5 EXAMINATION
6
7 BY MR.BURDIN:
8 Q Will you please state your name for the
9 record and spell your last name?
10 A Yeah,Kevin Williamson,
11 W-i-1-l-i-a-m-s-o-n.
12 Q And where do you reside?
13 A In Avimor in Boise.
14 Q And are you a customer of the Company?
15 A I am.
16 Q Thank you.Go ahead,please.
17 A Yeah,so I to Veolia's credit,I did get a
18 letter stating this was going to happen and had
19 information and I contacted the PUC.I emailed and then
20 this weekend I got --Adam sent me an email reminding me
21 this thing is coming,so I have prioritized it,
22 rescheduled some stuff,brought my father-in-law who I
23 usually sit with on Monday nights while his wife goes to
24 a Bible study with my wife,and that is a statement of
25 our family that,you know,we want to do things together.
CSB REPORTING 27 WILLIAMSON
208.890.5198 Public
1 We helped them move here partly because
2 it's end of life as you can see.You know,he's got
3 Parkinson's and we want to be together and to have
4 rates --and I used to work for a public utility,for an
5 energy company,before we moved here and I watched the
6 game,you know,that they put in for rate increases to
7 recover and it just almost always got pushed through,and
8 we moved here so we could be together as an entire
9 extended family.
10 My sons have moved here,my daughter moved
11 here,because Boise gave us what we could see as
12 affordable living,cost of living,and so when Suez got
13 bought and we got the notices,first of all,it was a
14 total botched transition.I've seen transitions between
15 providers and it was horrible.There was almost no way
16 to get ahold of Veolia.I had to search online and not
17 through their website to find a local office and a local
18 phone number and I just want to pay my stinking bill by
19 check like I always have and not use their online portal.
20 There's no way to do it.It's like customer disservice
21 and I work in the IT industry and I've seen this same
22 strategy in other big corporations.You just buy a
23 company and rape their customers and you don't provide
24 any service,anything more than they already did.
25 Suez provided water.I don't see there's
CSB REPORTING 28 WILLIAMSON
208.890.5198 Public
1 any difference except now I get sort of the equivalent
2 of,you know,selling me a warranty on my car that I
3 don't own anymore.You know,they send these mailings,
4 buy insurance on your water line.It's like I thought
5 that was your job.Well,not between your house and the
6 street.It's like I live in a brand new development.
7 There's no way my water line is going out.
8 Anyhow,it just feels like extortion,but
9 anyhow,lack of service.Everything that was said
10 earlier,I researched.You know,it's like they had to
11 have done their due diligence about the cost of taking on
12 the Idaho market.They had to have taken on a lot of
13 research before they invested that kind of capital,and
14 to think that,you know,they're surprised by the cost of
15 running a utility,either they're incompetent or they're
16 greedy or they're both,and I think a 24 percent
17 increase,everybody's cost of living is going up.It's
18 not going up 24 percent.
19 I can see,you know,some things going up,
20 but there just doesn't seem to be any justification for a
21 24 percent increase,and because I've been around this
22 industry,there's no guarantee they're not going to ask
23 for another increase in the next cycle and the next cycle
24 and meanwhile,my parents-in-law,they moved here with a
25 fixed income and we told them what our water bill was and
CSB REPORTING 29 WILLIAMSON
208.890.5198 Public
1 now for it to be going up and I know there's a lot of
2 areas of Boise that have irrigation water,we don't.
3 It's all Veolia and they want to have a garden.We have
4 a garden.You know,it's going to be exorbitant.
5 It's already expensive to water a garden.
6 It's going to be really expensive and if it keeps going
7 up,anyhow,it's a publicly granted monopoly,these
8 utilities,and I just think,I'd like to think,that our
9 government is looking out for the best value for
10 customers,the best value for our citizens.You know,we
11 pay our taxes and,you know,we didn't come here with
12 torches and pitchforks,just want to say hey,24 percent
13 seems insane.
14 It's just way too high,and I'm not
15 against a utility recovering its cost,but that's cost
16 plus,plus,plus and I'm not even against capitalists
17 owning a company in private industry,owning utilities.
18 It just seems to be --it needs some governance to say
19 lower your rate of return expectations,because that's
20 out of line with everything else in our market,and I am
21 very concerned about and I do help a lot of refugees.
22 They were brought here.You know,the US government
23 brings refugees to different cities and we've received a
24 lot here in Boise,and this is going to make it really
25 difficult for them to pay their water bills and I know a
CSB REPORTING 30 WILLIAMSON
208.890.5198 Public
1 few of them that I've tutored,they're like water costs
2 this much?What if we don't pay?And I said,well,
3 that's not a good idea.It's not a choice,so it's just
4 going to make Boise a lot more expensive.
5 COMMISSIONER ANDERSON:Thank you very
6 much for your testimony.Any questions?Hearing none,
7 thank you.
8 (The witness left the stand.)
9 COMMISSIONER ANDERSON:Suzanne Knorr.
10
11 SUZANNE KNORR,
12 appearing as a public witness,having been first duly
13 sworn,testified as follows:
14
15 EXAMINATION
16
17 BY MR.BURDIN:
18 Q Would you please state your name and spell
19 your last name for the record?
20 A My name is Suzanne Knorr,K-n-o-r-r.I'm
21 a resident of Southwest Boise.I am both a current
22 customer of Veolia and a prospective new customer.We
23 own property which we now rent.We cover --we pay the
24 utilities on that property,so we know what the water
25 costs.We also have a pretty good idea what a 24 percent
CSB REPORTING 31 KNORR
208.890.5198 Public
1 increase would be,but I'm also here as a representative
2 of the well owner community down in Southwest Boise,many
3 of whom have been struggling with their wells and are
4 looking to connect to Veolia Water,many of whom have
5 been without water now for ten months and counting,but a
6 24 percent increase is pretty significant and for in
7 their quest in order to connect to Veolia,they came up
8 with some pretty expensive costs,anywhere from
9 $30-40,000 when the water main was literally right next
10 to their property to 110,000 or more for them to connect
11 to Veolia.
12 A representative of Veolia and certainly
13 the local people do their best to try to keep the costs
14 down when they negotiate with the contractors that they
15 approve;however,it is an incredible increase,so
16 they've often made the choice do I try to deepen my well,
17 how long will the water last with the water table
18 reducing at 12 inches per year.A 24 percent increase is
19 a significant consideration.
20 One thing Veolia has maintained to the
21 well owners down there is that they would not ask their
22 current subscribers to pay for what they consider to be
23 new construction and so everything has to be paid up
24 front.We've always operated with this understanding;
25 however,it's also not consistent with Veolia coming to
CSB REPORTING 32 KNORR
208.890.5198 Public
1 all of their constituents after their work with Eagle
2 Water and saying subscribers,you must pay for this.
3 That's all I have.
4 COMMISSIONER ANDERSON:Thank you very
5 much for your testimony.Are there any questions?
6 Ms.Ullman.
7 MR.ULLMAN:Mr.Chairman,thank you.
8
9 CROSS-EXAMINATION
10
11 BY MS.ULLMAN:
12 Q I'm trying to figure out exactly what
13 question or how to ask,so you're talking about people
14 who have been on well water,if I'm understanding
15 correctly,who have --are in the service area of Veolia
16 Water,is that correct --
17 A Yes.
18 Q --that are trying to connect,but you
19 said you've heard 30-110,000 for the privilege of
20 connecting,plus a monthly water bill at that point;is
21 that correct?
22 A That is correct.
23 Q Do you have any idea what the distance is
24 from existing Veolia lines to any of these houses for
25 providing service?
CSB REPORTING 33 KNORR (X)
208.890.5198 Public
1 A It varies.It just depends on where the
2 main lines were.This is a community that was built back
3 in the 1970s and it was considered rural at one time,but
4 it's been engulfed by development,so development has
5 built around it and with that development,of course,
6 Veolia,Suez prior,United Water prior,has extended
7 their lines with that development,but not necessarily
8 into this particular section.
9 This section,again,it has been dependent
10 upon where the water line was.30-40,000 was when the
11 water line was literally right next to the property.
12 110,000,they would have had to extend the lines much
13 farther.From what I understand,if the line was in the
14 street,it's anywhere from $100-200 per foot of line laid
15 to go from their property to the line,and that's just a
16 rough estimate.
17 Q And would that work --
18 COMMISSIONER ANDERSON:Ms.Ullman,I'm
19 going to correct you here for just a moment.Let's talk
20 about the case that is before this.This is not even
21 part of this case.This is for another time,those
22 discussions,and if they're within the boundaries of
23 Veolia,they would be served by Veolia,so let's try to
24 maintain what this meeting here is about.
25 Q BY MS.ULLMAN:So my follow-up question,
CSB REPORTING 34 KNORR (X)
208.890.5198 Public
1 I know in the 1990s,the PUC ordered that the Company
2 allow a variety of contractors who met a certain minimum
3 standard to work on their water lines.At the time they
4 only had a sole source contractor,so are you aware
5 whether this was specifically Veolia doing the work or
6 only one contractor?
7 A No,they have a list of approved
8 contractors.They might have inherited that list from
9 Suez,but it's a list of approved contractors,so they
10 could contractor shop within that list.
11 MS.ULLMAN:Thank you.
12 COMMISSIONER ANDERSON:Thank you very
13 much for your testimony.
14 (The witness left the stand.)
15 COMMISSIONER ANDERSON:Joel Festerly.
16
17 JOEL FESTERLY,
18 appearing as a public witness,having been duly sworn,
19 was examined and testified as follows:
20
21 BY MR.BURDIN:
22 Q Would you please state your name for the
23 record and spell your last name?
24 A Joel Festerly.That's F-e-s-t-e-r-1-y.
25 Q And where do you reside?
CSB REPORTING 35 FESTERLY
208.890.5198 Public
1 A Boise.
2 Q And are you a customer of the company?
3 A Yes.
4 Q Thank you.Go ahead,please.
5 A Well,I just found out about this today,
6 actually,but it is one of those issues that I'm not
7 going to say anything new here that hasn't already been
8 said as a concerned customer with large rate hikes,24
9 percent going up.I do appreciate Ms.Fuerstenau's
10 testimony about the financials and being able to break
11 that down because not everybody can,but Boise has been a
12 place that's family friendly,retirement friendly,people
13 friendly.
14 It's kind of a place for the people and
15 this doesn't seem like a move for the people when we
16 think about the fact that we don't have a choice on where
17 to go get our water and large increase for --if you're
18 doing well and you just happen to be blessed financially
19 with your business or whatever might be happening,that's
20 fine.It doesn't hurt that much,right,but the concept
21 of ah,just another Starbucks or just a little bit here,
22 a little bit there,that's fine for when you're doing
23 well,but we all just came out of the pandemic.
24 There's a lot of us that aren't doing
25 really well.There's a lot of us that were hurt and are
CSB REPORTING 36 FESTERLY
208.890.5198 Public
1 struggling,not just for people that are on fixed income
2 or SSI,which that's a legit thing.You don't have a way
3 to go out and get more resources,that's a legitimate
4 complaint.That's a legitimate concern for people,but
5 also,there's a lot people that lost businesses,lost
6 jobs,just industry hurting,people hurting,and when I
7 think about raising my children and having to get on
8 them,you know,like my parents did,like hey,shut that
9 water off.Hey,don't play in the sprinklers.Hey,who
10 left the water running?Hey,we can't fill the pool
11 today.You filled it yesterday.You know,the little
12 kiddie pools that they play with.
13 You know,the idea of having to regulate
14 which days your kids play on the slip and slide,that's a
15 little bit much,but I think that's reality for a lot of
16 us,and so Ms.Fuerstenau pointed out that the profit
17 margins and the record intake for this large Company who
18 we had no say in them being our water supplier --I'm
19 sorry,I'm trying to gather my thoughts here.
20 It's one of those I get a little bit
21 emotional with injustice and it feels a little bit like
22 injustice or like you don't have a voice,so I have a lot
23 of notes here,but I think what I really want to say is
24 as corporations have board members and people to look out
25 for their shareholders and their bottom lines and for
CSB REPORTING 37 FESTERLY208.890.5198 Public
1 making profits,I'm all about making profits.I've been
2 a business owner.That's good,that's a good thing,but
3 it's not a good thing when the customer doesn't have a
4 choice.
5 I've been in the trades a long time and we
6 run bids and you've got to have a competitive price and
7 good service and that's what makes you a flourishing
8 business.You take care of your people.You take care
9 of your customers,but if I don't have a choice and
10 there's no one looking out for me as a customer,that
11 puts us in a different situation,and so I'm here to ask
12 you guys,our representatives --I'll be honest right
13 now,I'm not sure how this works,but I believe that's
14 what this meeting is about,that we the people need a
15 voice,need somebody looking out for our best interests
16 as well,so that's what I'm here to ask you guys to do
17 the right thing and to hear our voices.
18 This is not a big crowd,not a big
19 turnout.Like I said,I just found out about it today
20 and fortunately,I live right down the road,you know,
21 just a couple of blocks away.I just live right over
22 here,so I walked in late.I also do mentoring.I do
23 discipling.I do ministering,but I do want to come here
24 and just make our voice known and ask you guys to take
25 care of us,to look out for us.
CSB REPORTING 38 FESTERLY
208.890.5198 Public
1 COMMISSIONER ANDERSON:Well,thank you,
2 Mr.Festerly,for your testimony.
3 Are there any questions?Hearing none,
4 thank you again.
5 THE WITNESS:Thank you.
6 (The witness left the stand.)
7 COMMISSIONER ANDERSON:I don't have
8 anybody else on my list.Is there anybody that wishes to
9 testify that hasn't?If that's the case,this is your
10 opportunity to testify if you wish to.If not,we will
11 be adjourned,which we are.
12 (The Hearing adjourned at 6:54 p.m.)
13
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CSB REPORTING 39 COLLOQUY208.890.5198
1 A UTHENT I C A T I ON
2
3
4 This is to certify that the foregoing
5 proceedings held in the matter of the application of
6 Veolia Water Company Idaho for authority to increase its
7 rates and charges for water service in the State of
8 Idaho,commencing at 6:00 p.m.,on Monday,March 27,
9 2023,at the Commission Hearing Room,11331 West Chinden
10 Blvd.,Building 8,Suite 201-A,Boise,Idaho,is a true
11 and correct transcript of said proceedings and the
12 original thereof for the file of the Commission.
13
14
CŒSTANCE S.BUCY17CertifiedShorthand Reportér 187
18
19
CONSTANCE S BUCY
2 0 NOTARY PUBUC -STATE OF IDAHO
COMMISSION NUMBER 12995
MY COMMISSION EXPIRES 9-5-2024
2 1
22
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25
CSB REPORTING 40 AUTHENTICATION208.890.5198