20230209HearingAtholID2PM.pdf

Page 1
1 BEFORE THE IDAHO PUBLIC UTILITIES COMMISSION
2
3 IN THE MATTER OF GEM STATE WATER ) Case No. GSW-W-22-01
COMPANY LLC'S APPLICATION FOR AN )
4 ORDER AUTHORIZING AN INCREASE IN )
ITS RATES AND CHARGES FOR WATER )
5 SERVICE IN THE STATE OF IDAHO )
)
6 __________________________________)
7
8 TRANSCRIPT OF PUBLIC CUSTOMER HEARING
9 BEFORE
10 COMMISSIONER ERIC ANDERSON
11 COMMISSIONER JOHN R. HAMMOND, JR.
12
13
14
15
16 DATE: January 18, 2023 - 2:00 p.m.
17 LOCATION: Athol Community Center
18 30355 Third Street
19 Athol, Idaho 83801
20
21 REPORTED BY:
22 VALERIE J. LEGG, CSR
Notary Public
23
24
25
M&M Court Reporting LLC
RECEIVED
Thursday, February 9, 2023 3:46:03 PM
IDAHO PUBLIC
UTILITIES COMMISSION
Page 2
1 A P P E A R A N C E S
2
3 FOR THE STAFF:
4 OFFICE OF THE ATTORNEY GENERAL
BY: RILEY NEWTON, ESQ.
5 11331 West Chiden Boulevard
Build B, Suite 201A
6 Boise, Idaho 83720-0074
[e-mail]
7
8
9 FOR GEM STATE WATER COMPANY:
10 LESLIE ABRAMS-RAYNOR
250 Northwest Boulevard
11 Suite 203
Coeur d'Alene, Idaho 83814
12 877.755.9287
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
M&M Court Reporting LLC
Page 3
1 ATHOL, IDAHO, JANUARY 18, 2023, 2:00 P.M.
2 * * *
3 COMMISSIONER ANDERSON: Good afternoon,
4 everyone.
5 We're going to go ahead and start the meeting
6 now. If we can give attention to the dais here, we'll
7 appreciate it.
8 This is the time and place for customer hearing
9 on Case No. GSW-W-22-01, also referred to as: In the
10 Matter of Gem State Water Company's Application for an
11 Order Authorizing an Increase in its Rates and Charges
12 for Water Service in the State of Idaho.
13 The purpose of this hearing is to take testimony
14 from members of the public in reference to Gem State
15 Water's request that was filed with the commission on
16 July 21, 2022.
17 My name is Eric Anderson, and I will be the
18 chair of today's meeting. And I'm joined by
19 Commissioner Hammond to my right. And we compromise the
20 commission that will collectively make a final
21 determination on this matter.
22 To this point one public informational workshop
23 has been held on November 15, 2022. There were no
24 interveners in this case.
25 Today's objective is to take live public
M&M Court Reporting LLC
Page 4
1 testimony which will be added to the underlying record.
2 The commissioners will review facts and evidence in the
3 record and make its final decision in the case.
4 For those of you that are wishing to submit
5 written comments, the deadline is Friday, this coming
6 Friday, January 20, by 5:00 p.m. You can go online and
7 do that or you can mail them the old style. We have
8 sheets available that you may leave with the public
9 information officer, Adam Rush, at your leisure.
10 UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: Sir, who are you, other
11 than your name?
12 COMMISSIONER ANDERSON: I'm the commissioner for
13 the Idaho Public Utilities Commission, and John has the
14 same title as I do.
15 THE WITNESS: Okay. Thank you.
16 COMMISSIONER ANDERSON: Apparently I have
17 forgotten to add that in. I'm going to correct my notes
18 in the presentation.
19 UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: There's a bad echo.
20 COMMISSIONER ANDERSON: Bad echo? That's the
21 train. We'll just give it one second here.
22 So, anyway, Friday's the last day for that.
23 We have about 20 people signed up to testify.
24 So in the conservation of time, if someone else has said
25 anything that you can defer to or that you agree with,
M&M Court Reporting LLC
Page 5
1 you may point to them. We're not going to keep time or
2 time you tonight, but if you get on beyond ten minutes,
3 we'll probably ask you to move it up a bit. I don't
4 think anybody will be going that long.
5 The procedures and parameters of today's hearing
6 will go as follows: I will call your name from the
7 sign-in sheet and you will take the stand and be sworn
8 in as you would in any other official court proceeding.
9 I will ask you to raise your right hand and swear that
10 the testimony you're providing is the whole truth.
11 The deputy attorney general will ask you to
12 identify yourself for the record, which will include
13 stating your name, spelling your last name, and whether
14 you're a customer of Gem State Water.
15 You may then present your testimony. Please
16 remain seated to see if the parties -- or please remain
17 at the podium in case the parties have any questions.
18 Typically the parties don't have questions after you're
19 done speaking. At that point I will excuse you.
20 As you provide your testimony today, please
21 remember that the decorum of this proceeding is similar
22 to a courtroom. Your comments should be directed to the
23 commission and not members of the audience. For those
24 in the audience we ask you to refrain from reacting to
25 any testimony while or after it being presented. That
M&M Court Reporting LLC
Page 6
1 means clapping and no verbal comment. This is all
2 recorded and it just becomes complicated when we fall
3 out of that procedure, and we do appreciate your
4 willingness to respect that process.
5 Since our cases are judicial in nature we do use
6 a court reporter, as I spoke before, to create an
7 official transcript for the record. The commission must
8 base their decision's of the record which is why a
9 transcript is necessary.
10 Our court reporter today is Valerie Legg.
11 Please don't speak too fast or softly or we'll
12 have to give you a nudge to slow down and maybe speak up
13 a little bit.
14 So at this point let's begin with the
15 appearances of the parties. We can begin with staff
16 representation through Deputy Attorney Riley Newton.
17 And for Gem State Water?
18 And please identify.
19 MS. ABRAMS-RAYNER: Leslie Abrams-Rayner.
20 General state general manager for Gem State Water.
21 COMMISSIONER ANDERSON: Is the echo still just
22 as bad as it was before? We apologize for that.
23 Okay. There's no other parties present to
24 determine, so with that I'm going to go ahead and call
25 the first witness to the stand up here. I don't know
M&M Court Reporting LLC
Page 7
1 the order of these as they came in, so if you came in
2 first and I call you last, I apologize.
3 The first one would be Colleen East. And I
4 didn't call you fast. I called you East.
5 MS. EAST: Yes, not fast. Opposite direction of
6 west. Colleen East.
7
8 COLLEEN EAST,
9 first duly sworn to tell the truth relating to said
10 cause, testified as follows:
11
12 MR. NEWTON: Colleen, could you state your name
13 and spell your last for the record.
14 MS. EAST: Colleen East, E-A-S-T, opposite
15 direction of west.
16 MR. NEWTON: Thank you.
17 And which water system are you a customer of?
18 MS. EAST: I'm with Gem State right now. I was
19 with Bitterroot.
20 MR. NEWTON: Okay. Go ahead.
21 MS. EAST: Do I need to use the microphone? Can
22 you all hear me?
23 MR. NEWTON: I'm afraid we're probably going to
24 have to have the microphone. I apologize for that.
25 MS. EAST: Okay. How's that? Can you all hear
M&M Court Reporting LLC
Page 8
1 me now?
2 Okay. Everybody in the back can hear me? Good.
3 Yes, I was a customer of Bitterroot Water before
4 it was sold to Gem State. With Bitterroot we knew that
5 we had water outages. Typically every time there was a
6 power outage we had a water outage, and it stayed for
7 quite a while. Some of the power outages stayed for
8 three days so...
9 But the issue right now is we hear that Gem
10 State wants an increase because they need to improve the
11 water systems. Bitterroot was sold, what, maybe a year
12 ago? It wasn't that long ago.
13 When you're a company purchasing a company, you
14 have the responsibility to do what's called due
15 diligence. As the buyer you should not have any
16 surprises. If you do your due diligence and there's a
17 time basically, to put with home buyer, your escrow
18 period, but there's a time for you to do due diligence.
19 Gem State should have known when they purchased
20 Bitterroot that they needed generators. And I'm going
21 to say plural on that, not singular. I happen to be in
22 the part of Gem State that is last on the generator
23 line. Power goes out, other places get water and we
24 don't. So that's No. 1.
25 Number 2, they should have known that
M&M Court Reporting LLC
Page 9
1 Bitterroot's water supply did not meet federal
2 standards. Somebody's got to be able to test for that.
3 As customers of Gem State we should not be
4 responsible for their mistakes. If they did not do
5 their due diligence -- or I have heard that they
6 contracted due diligence out to another party that
7 didn't do their job -- as customers that's not our
8 responsibility, you know. If they contracted out to
9 somebody, assuming that they have errors and omissions
10 insurance, that is the liable party, not the customers.
11 So for them to say that they need to improve the water
12 system that they've owned for maybe a year, that's not
13 our issue, so the customer should not have to bear that
14 cost, No. 1.
15 Number 2, and I know you're going to hear this a
16 lot because I've heard it in the room tonight. A, a lot
17 of us are living on a fixed income. I get an 8 percent
18 raise next year. That goes to my gasoline and my food
19 that I desperately need, but I desperately need water as
20 well. And I understand a 22 percent increase has been
21 proposed as a solution to this. Gem State wanted
22 135 percent increase, which is just ridiculous.
23 So I would recommend a small increase in our
24 monthly fee, I'd be happy with that, and leaving the
25 allotment where it is. As far as gallons of water and
M&M Court Reporting LLC
Page 10
1 price per gallon, leave that where it is.
2 I happen to be somebody to bought a home ten
3 years ago in this district and it had an acre and a half
4 of grass. I have to maintain an acre and a half of
5 grass. That takes a lot of water during the summer. I
6 took some of it out and put a vegetable garden in.
7 Guess what, it takes a lot of water during the summer,
8 and I'm feeding myself with that. So that needs to be
9 taken into account. Should I take out more grass, that
10 depreciates my property value and I can't afford to do
11 that either.
12 So with that, I see you're both taking notes.
13 Thank you. If you have any questions for me I'd be
14 happy to answer them.
15 COMMISSIONER ANDERSON: Thank you, Ms. East.
16 Any questions?
17 COMMISSIONER HAMMOND: I do have one.
18 COMMISSIONER ANDERSON: Commissioner Hammond.
19 COMMISSIONER HAMMOND: You talked about outages.
20 THE WITNESS: Yes.
21 COMMISSIONER HAMMOND: Can you tell me when the
22 last outage, if you remember, just --
23 MS. EAST: The last outage was not a power
24 issue. It was an issue with a contractor of another
25 company in the area, and they knocked out power -- I
M&M Court Reporting LLC
Page 11
1 live on Silver Meadows Loop. They knocked out all of
2 Silver Meadows Loop. And had there been a generator
3 down at the water station down at the corner of Brunner
4 and Clagstone -- which is right close to us. There is
5 no generator there from what I understand or not an
6 automatic on. That's why I said they need more than one
7 generator in the system -- they could have provided at
8 least water if we didn't have power. And that's been
9 within the last year.
10 I can't -- Jeanine, do you remember how many
11 months ago that was?
12 UNKNOWN SPEAKER: I remember when that was, but
13 it wasn't the generator --
14 COMMISSIONER HAMMOND: Hold on.
15 MS. EAST: Yeah, it's not the generator issue.
16 It was a contractor that knocked it out, but had the
17 generator at Brunner and Clagstone been available, we
18 might have had some water at least in part of the loop,
19 from what I understand.
20 COMMISSIONER ANDERSON: And we probably should
21 try not to do anything -- it's really hard for the court
22 reporter to get --
23 MS. EAST: Okay. Got it.
24 COMMISSIONER ANDERSON: If you need to get
25 clarification, just ask for that and maybe we can have
M&M Court Reporting LLC
Page 12
1 them come to the stand and use the microphone.
2 MS. EAST: I know it's been the last year. I
3 know it's been since Bitterroot bought it. And like I
4 said, it's not electricity, electricity power outage.
5 It happened to be a construction contractor. We lost
6 not only water. We lost power. We lost gas. We lost
7 every -- TV, Internet, you name it. They pulled the
8 whole -- they cut into the hole pipe system so...
9 COMMISSIONER ANDERSON: Any cross?
10 MR. NEWTON: I have no questions.
11 COMMISSIONER ANDERSON: No questions. Thank you
12 very much.
13 MS. EAST: Thank you.
14 COMMISSIONER ANDERSON: And I wasn't
15 criticizing. We all are anxious to speak here today.
16 This is your day to speak, but we just need to be
17 mindful that we get everything on the record, so I
18 wasn't criticizing, please.
19 Next we have John Balbi.
20 MR. BALBI: Balbi.
21 COMMISSIONER ANDERSON: Balbi. Thank you.
22
23 JOHN BALBI,
24 first duly sworn to tell the truth relating to said
25 cause, testified as follows:
M&M Court Reporting LLC
Page 13
1
2 MR. NEWTON: John, would you state your full
3 name and spell your last name for the record.
4 MR. BALBI: My full name is John David Balbi,
5 B-A-L-B-I.
6 MR. NEWTON: Thank you.
7 And which water system are you on?
8 MR. BALBI: Spirit Lake East, Gem Water.
9 MR. NEWTON: Thank you. Go ahead.
10 MR. BALBI: First of all I want to thank the
11 commissioners and the board for having this locally
12 instead of far away or on the phone, and having two of
13 them so people can not do it during snow and people that
14 work can have one too.
15 My background is from small companies to large
16 companies, family owned. I know what profit -- how
17 companies need to make profit, and they need to serve
18 their customers.
19 Spirit Lake East is an electricity company of
20 Kootenai Electric. Kootenai promotes that they have one
21 of the lowest electric rates in the country. Not just
22 the state of Idaho, but the country.
23 I spearheaded the Spirit Lake homeowners water
24 requisition when Hanson owned the water company. I'm
25 quite familiar with the system, the way they chlorinate
M&M Court Reporting LLC
Page 14
1 the water, the power, the generators, the -- the tanks
2 that -- that -- I was there when they replaced the well
3 pump and the water was out for over ten days.
4 Dealing with that, the commission held a meeting
5 at the Timberlake High School, and our water supply was
6 reduced at that time. I don't remember the exact
7 gallons. And now they want to reduce it more or keep it
8 the same for other -- other water systems and ours.
9 The price they're asking for the thousand
10 gallons is -- I can't find anybody that charges that
11 much. My scope have been very limited but, in fact, if
12 this commission and this board find that that's what it
13 is, I propose that Gem State do an equal payment plan
14 like the electric company does because there's no way I
15 can come up with that kind of money during the
16 summertime.
17 I have planted over 400 trees that provide food
18 for the wild animals around Spirit Lake East. I water
19 those trees during the months of July and August because
20 they dry out. If that water is taken away, the food
21 supply for the animals will be reduces considerably.
22 We're talking about moose. We're talking about deer.
23 We're talking about rabbits. We're talking about things
24 like that.
25 And as you know, the population of North Idaho
M&M Court Reporting LLC
Page 15
1 is expanding and these animals are being pushed farther
2 and farther and their food supply is getting less and
3 less. If I'm forced to cut the water to those plants,
4 it's going to be -- it's not going to be terribly bad,
5 but it's going to be bad.
6 So I think that is what I have to say.
7 COMMISSIONER ANDERSON: Thank you, Mr. Balbi.
8 Any questions from the commission?
9 Thank you for your testimony.
10 Next we have -- with a question mark, I believe
11 they want to speak -- Rick or Kim Prindle?
12 MS. PRINDLE: No.
13 COMMISSIONER ANDERSON: No. Thank you for being
14 here, and you can supply written comment by Friday.
15 Next we have Melanie Vander Feer.
16 MS. VANDER FEER: Yeah. I wasn't sure if I
17 wanted to speak yet or not.
18 COMMISSIONER ANDERSON: I'll put you in the
19 uncertain column over here for the now.
20 MS. VANDER FEER: Thank you.
21 COMMISSIONER ANDERSON: Darrell Richardson.
22 Now, Darrell was the first one here, and I did
23 picked up the wrong list. I apologize, Darrell.
24
25 DARRELL RICHARDSON,
M&M Court Reporting LLC
Page 16
1 first duly sworn to tell the truth relating to said
2 cause, testified as follows:
3
4 MR. NEWTON: Darrell, could you state your first
5 and last name and spell your last name for the record.
6 MR. RICHARDSON: Darrell Richardson,
7 R-I-C-H-A-R-D-S-O-N.
8 MR. NEWTON: Thank you, Darrell.
9 And which water system are you a customer of?
10 MR. RICHARDSON: Spirit Lake East.
11 MR. NEWTON: Thank you. Go ahead.
12 MR. RICHARDSON: Hi. I'll give you a little bit
13 of my background.
14 I'm an engineer. I'm not a forensic accountant
15 or something like that, but I have been through the
16 numbers a little bit, and it looks to me like -- I get
17 the feeling of a bad faith operation going on here, and
18 so I just want to talk a few things about that.
19 It looked like the last rate raise in the water
20 system for me was in 2013. Per Google inflation has
21 been 27 percent since then. My base rate is going up
22 40 percent. My excess rate is going up in excess of
23 100 percent.
24 I took a look at last year's numbers and it
25 looked like cumulatively my -- my payments for -- under
M&M Court Reporting LLC
Page 17
1 the new scheme will be going up 55 percent, so that's
2 way outside of inflation.
3 There was only one year of records for what was
4 being spent on this water system, and so in that one
5 year of records they had this new truck that they
6 bought, and so they're using that as a base year so that
7 every year from now on, we will be paying the equivalent
8 of that truck in excess funds rather than, you know,
9 say, okay, we want to put 20,000 down on it and we'll
10 pay a certain amount each year and your rates are going
11 to cover that. They did a lump sum in that year, so
12 each year from here to infinity we will pay for that.
13 They talk about equity. You know, there's
14 equity in the stock market, which is like stocks or
15 bonds. It seems like what they're talking about here is
16 equity across different water systems. Like, you know,
17 is Bitterroot paying too much or too little relative to
18 Spirit Lake East? I don't even know how you assess that
19 but certainly not with the data provided in -- in the
20 documentation. I think there was just no -- you know,
21 nothing to hang your hat on.
22 They talk about clarity and tariff by
23 consolidating this. Clarity and tariffs for me, that's
24 kind of a joke. My tariff is clear. I have a base
25 rate, and I have an excess rate. In the future I'm
M&M Court Reporting LLC
Page 18
1 going to have a base rate and an excess rate. There's
2 no change. So that's just sort of spreading good
3 sounding words out there that have no meaning in life.
4 That's the kind of stuff that makes it feel like a lack
5 of good faith.
6 I got the wrong focal lens here.
7 Okay. So there's lack of projection. So, you
8 know, their mishmash of this whole rate, who's paying
9 what to different stuff. They're talking about
10 different excess rates, but there's no projection about
11 how it's all going to come together and what the future
12 income is going to be.
13 So, you know, if they took last year and said,
14 okay, we're going to take, you know, everyone in Spirit
15 Lake East's base rate, and everyone in Spirit Lake
16 East's excess, and at the new rate this is the revenue
17 that that will provide, and they did that for all the
18 water companies and rolled that all up so that we would
19 see what their profit margins are going to be, that is
20 an honest approach. It's a -- it's a minimum approach.
21 I use my excess in the summer so -- so under the
22 new guise my excess will be going from -- I don't know
23 what it is. Anyway, it'll now become half of my bill,
24 and that comes due in July and August. What I use my
25 water for then is to have a lawn around my house which
M&M Court Reporting LLC
Page 19
1 is a green belt against a fire, fire protection. So
2 that's going to start getting pricey.
3 I use it -- I have a garden. It's on a drip
4 system. I do not use much water for it. But that also
5 will now be paid out of excess, which is now going to
6 be, you know, going up in excess of 100 percent.
7 So there's just nothing about this that is the
8 way I would present a rate request that is taking into
9 consideration my need for profit and my customer's need
10 for living life. That's my two cents.
11 COMMISSIONER ANDERSON: Thank you,
12 Mr. Richardson.
13 Are there with any questions?
14 Thank you for your testimony.
15 Mike Lind. Welcome, Mike.
16
17 MIKE LIND,
18 first duly sworn to tell the truth relating to said
19 cause, testified as follows:
20
21 MR. LIND: Mike Lind, L-I-N-D.
22 MR. NEWTON: And what system are you a customer
23 of?
24 THE WITNESS: Gem State now. It was Bitterroot.
25 MR. NEWTON: Okay. Go ahead.
M&M Court Reporting LLC
Page 20
1 MR. LIND: Okay. I have had a couple things.
2 First and foremost we're talking about the different
3 rates. I'll just give you an example.
4 When I saw this bill, the new rate person had
5 come out and they talked about it's only going to be so
6 much percent. What I did is I actually looked at my
7 bill, calculated it what it would be, compared it to
8 after the water rates and the excess, because they're
9 going to reduce the minimum, and my bill was well over
10 100 percent just for that.
11 I think that the way they had did this increase,
12 you know, you're taking -- currently we have allotted
13 15,000 gallons. Now they're proposing that they reduce
14 that to 10,000 gallon. That's on top of the rate
15 increase. And then anything in that last 5,000, which
16 we were already getting, now that's at an increased
17 rate. So when you compound that all together, the price
18 goes up significantly.
19 The point here is, you know, I did 30 years in
20 law enforcement. So when you end up having, you know,
21 like when -- when you dial 911 you expect the police to
22 come. When you turn your water faucet on you expect the
23 water to come out, but what we've had, especially since
24 Gem State took it over, the water seems to go out quite
25 a bit more often. Not only when there's power outages,
M&M Court Reporting LLC
Page 21
1 but they've had other instances.
2 And the thing that's upsetting about that is, I
3 think they went ahead and finally got a generator
4 because I heard somebody talk about it, but they don't
5 have an automatic transfer switch, so it takes like an
6 hour or better for someone to drive out there and turn
7 this generator on and in the meantime we're out of
8 water.
9 Now, you're thinking it's an hour of water,
10 that's not that big of a deal, but what does it do to
11 our system? For one thing the pressure, water pressure
12 of the system is significantly lower than any other
13 place I've ever lived. And so when the water goes out
14 for a while, when it comes back on, it seems like it
15 takes a day or two to get all the air out of the system
16 because of what's gone on. So the toilets are all
17 popping. I've had to go and have stuff done to the
18 toilets because of the air and all of that.
19 It's very, what would you say -- I can't think
20 of the word but -- frustrating. I guess that would be a
21 good word to use. Very frustrating, especially when you
22 call and talk to them.
23 I know that like when I did major projects, like
24 building projects and so on before, we installed a
25 generator. With today's technology you can get an
M&M Court Reporting LLC
Page 22
1 automatic transfer switch and that would automatically
2 take care of it. That would have been one thing and it
3 would have saved a lot of issues, but when we talk over
4 to -- call the company, we don't get a lot of results
5 back on that.
6 The other thing I wanted to say is that 15,000
7 minimum. Most us during the wintertime when the snow is
8 on the ground, we're not using that, you know, that
9 minimum. We don't get money back for what we don't use,
10 but they're sure going to make sure we're going to get
11 charged for the extra amount when we use it in the
12 summertime, you know. So again, that's a -- it doesn't
13 go both ways.
14 So we want to make sure that we -- I feel that
15 this rate increase is way too much. Like I say, most
16 the people in our neighborhood are on fixed incomes and
17 retired, so it's something that we need to do.
18 And last year about -- during the summer there
19 was a significant fire right over here out 2 miles where
20 we were told, prepare to evacuate.
21 Now, if you've been on Silver Meadows Loop and
22 you've seen the north end of it, you'll notice all the
23 trees. That's where we're at, right by those trees. If
24 we don't keep stuff watered in that area, now you're
25 going to have -- I've already took out so many trees
M&M Court Reporting LLC
Page 23
1 based on what's been happening before, but if we lose
2 more water, that means I'm going to have to start
3 watering less, you know.
4 And like I said, as I heard people talk about,
5 we get moose and deer and all that that come through and
6 rely on all that stuff. If we start cutting down all
7 their stuff, what are they going to do, you know? This
8 a part of what you do when you live out here.
9 And when you buy a water district, you got to
10 expect to take care of what it is. Like I said before,
11 you need to take care and provide for the customers, so
12 that when the water goes out, it needs to come back on
13 and it needs to come on within an hour or better.
14 That's -- that's my say.
15 COMMISSIONER ANDERSON: I have a question,
16 Mr. Lind.
17 So they -- they must have a transfer switch, but
18 what you're recommending is that they should have an
19 automatic one so they don't need to drive all the way
20 out there; is that correct?
21 MR. LIND: Well, what I found is that when
22 the -- and like you said, it's not only. The one they
23 were talking about a little while ago, that was a
24 contractor that dug in and dug in the line and the power
25 was out quite a bit.
M&M Court Reporting LLC
Page 24
1 When I moved up here, which was over five years
2 ago, I was told I didn't really need a generator because
3 there weren't that many outages. Well, I was told
4 wrong. So we get quite a bit of outages, especially
5 where I'm at, so I put an automatic generator at my
6 house with an automatic transfer switch, everything
7 works, you know. Yeah, it's a little costly. But, I
8 mean, for me, I did that because in the long run I don't
9 plan on moving anywhere. Where I'm at, I'm done.
10 But the thing is, the technology is there. For
11 a water company, that's like a no-brainer. That should
12 be almost an automatic. They should all have to have
13 that. If you got a way of getting the power back on,
14 the water back on, or the gas or any of that as quick as
15 possible, they should do it. That's my opinion.
16 COMMISSIONER ANDERSON: Thank you.
17 Are there any other questions?
18 Thank you for your testimony.
19 Linda and Mike Mallory or both.
20 Welcome, Mr. Mallory.
21
22 MICHAEL MALLORY,
23 first duly sworn to tell the truth relating to said
24 cause, testified as follows:
25
M&M Court Reporting LLC
Page 25
1 MR. NEWTON: Could you state your first and last
2 name and spell your last name for the record.
3 MR. MALLORY. Michael Mallory, M-A-L-L-O-R-Y.
4 MR. NEWTON: And which system are you on?
5 MR. MALLORY: Bitterroot.
6 MR. NEWTON: Thank you. Go ahead.
7 MR. MALLORY: Just to set the stage, I live in
8 the Silver Meadows subdivision. Every parcel is at
9 least 5 acres. We, on ours, live at the end of
10 cul-de-dac, so we have a little over 6 acres. The back
11 part of my property is pasture, and in the front we have
12 lawn which is about, maybe three-quarters of an acre,
13 in-ground sprinkler system.
14 We spend a lot of money on water as it is trying
15 to keep a green area around our property, as somebody
16 already mentioned, the concern about the fire. So like
17 in my pasture, I'm so scared about it that I'll mow down
18 the pasture the end of June because, as somebody else
19 mentioned, we had a pretty good-sized fire this last
20 year, and they -- we were standing by to evacuate.
21 Let's talk about the generator and the water
22 system. It is critical. Can you imagine, the power
23 goes out. We have a fire -- which could happen because
24 pole goes down or whatever -- and we have no water for
25 the fire trucks. The last time they had to bring out a
M&M Court Reporting LLC
Page 26
1 pumper truck making sure that they have enough water.
2 It's ridiculous.
3 When I was reading through their application,
4 one of the things that jumped out at me was this talk
5 about their need for their staff to put in a lot of
6 effort on the billing, which I find is simply idiotic.
7 Today, with software that you can purchase pretty
8 simply, could bill each one of our water districts
9 without breaking up everything and throwing us all into
10 a hat, giving people proper billing, on time. Sometimes
11 we get our bill, and sometimes my wife has to get on the
12 phone and call them and say, where is it? So I think
13 that they ought to invest in some software to do all
14 their recordkeeping and that sort of thing.
15 They talked about meter replacement. Well, the
16 last company, they replaced all the meters out in our
17 area. So I don't know what the replacement is unless
18 they're talking about changing them all out again and
19 making them electronically able to download the usage.
20 They talked about having or looking forward and
21 they may have long-term debt. Well, the systems are all
22 existing. What long-term debt are they expecting to
23 have? And I didn't see an explanation for that. It
24 just did not make sense to me.
25 Before I came here today I took a shower and, as
M&M Court Reporting LLC
Page 27
1 every time I take a shower, the water pressure is
2 terrible. You practically have to jump around to get
3 wet. I mean, it's -- and from what I understand talking
4 to some of the neighbors, depending on where they're
5 located, they even are worse off than I am.
6 And as I mentioned earlier, I have grass. I
7 keep it watered. So it affects -- that water pressure
8 being so low affects how much water is put down, which
9 means I've got to run my sprinklers longer to get it to
10 stay green.
11 So that's all I got to say. Thanks.
12 Thank you again for being here too.
13 COMMISSIONER ANDERSON: Thank you very much.
14 Are there any questions?
15 Wait. Wait. One question.
16 COMMISSIONER HAMMOND: So your meter, is it --
17 your current meter, is it an analog meter, or is it an
18 AMR or a smart meter? electronic? Do you know?
19 THE WITNESS: It's not a smart meter. It's just
20 an analog meter.
21 COMMISSIONER ANDERSON: Any questions from the
22 parties?
23 Thank you for your testimony.
24 Dave Boss.
25
M&M Court Reporting LLC
Page 28
1 DAVE BOSS,
2 first duly sworn to tell the truth relating to said
3 cause, testified as follows:
4
5 MR. BOSS: I was part of the Rickel Water System
6 initially, Gem State now.
7 THE REPORTER: Can you state your name, please.
8 Can you state your name, please.
9 MR. BOSS: Dave Boss, B-O-S-S, like the person
10 in charge.
11 Been a customer on the Rickel/Gem State Water
12 System since 1997. For a number of years while
13 Ken Rickel had the system I read the meters for the
14 Bitterroot and Rickel system, know the system pretty
15 intimately. Did a lot of the work that was done in
16 there.
17 I will have to say, since Gem State has taken
18 over the quality of the service has diminished
19 significantly. Pressure is down. We've had a couple of
20 water outages, and I understand those things, if you've
21 got a mechanical system, they will happen, but it's been
22 quite frustrating I guess.
23 We're retired. We live on social security
24 alone, and we're in the process now of having to sell
25 5 acres of our property in order to survive the new
M&M Court Reporting LLC
Page 29
1 taxes and all of the other expenses that are going on in
2 this economy at this point. It's particularly
3 frustrating.
4 A year and a half ago we started the process of
5 dividing our property and as part of that there is a
6 long list of things that you get -- have to get
7 approved, permissions from, and information from various
8 individuals. And one of them is letting everyone know
9 what the water system is, what the current condition of
10 the water system is, and how to -- you know, can it be
11 added on to if you're putting another parcel, and I will
12 have to say that Gem State was particularly
13 nonresponsive.
14 Every time that I would call their office, the
15 woman that answered the phone would have to really, you
16 know, bump me up to the general manager, who was the one
17 who had all the information. I never got any
18 response -- or calls responding. One time they called
19 back. Did not give me the information I needed, would
20 call me back later. Never got that call.
21 This was in a point where they were not
22 functioning. According to the Department of
23 Environmental Quality, they were out of standards. In
24 order to get answers I ended up having to call and talk
25 to Andy at the Department of Environmental Quality to
M&M Court Reporting LLC
Page 30
1 find out when they were going to be back up and running
2 and have the availability to add additional parcels to
3 their system.
4 Another point, they're asking for a rate
5 increase now. A number of months ago our water bill
6 went down that $30 to $21. Now, since we've been there,
7 since 1997, we've been paying $30 a month for water. I
8 find it interesting, if they're so hard up for cash, why
9 are they dropping our price almost 30 percent for no
10 unknown reason? Granted the $90 discount on our water
11 bill every month is -- is a welcome, you know, surprise,
12 but it doesn't make economic sense if you're having to
13 turn around and ask for rate increases, you know,
14 subsequent to -- to that.
15 In terms of people asking about meters. I read
16 the meters for Ken for a number of years. A lot of them
17 have been replaced. A lot of them need to be replaced
18 because they're -- they're old. But at the same time it
19 took me and my wife driving me around about four or five
20 hours to read everything that was on Bitterroot and --
21 and Rickel Water System once a month during the summer
22 months to end up finding -- you know, writing down what
23 the water usage was.
24 As far as the generator. There was a generator
25 with the system that Ken Rickel had in place for the
M&M Court Reporting LLC
Page 31
1 Bitterroot/Rickel systems. That required someone
2 walking down, driving down to the system, unlocking the
3 gate, unlocking the container that the generator was in,
4 throwing a transfer switch and starting the generator.
5 Ken gave me a set of keys so if need be, then I can run
6 down and do that for him. It's not rocket science. It
7 shouldn't take an hour for that -- you know, for that to
8 be instigated. It's a two-minute deal.
9 Beyond that, any questions?
10 COMMISSIONER ANDERSON: Thank you, Mr. Boss.
11 Any questions?
12 Nothing from the parties?
13 Thank you for your testimony.
14 I don't know if anybody hasn't signed up, but I
15 have to go to the reserve list and see if Melanie
16 Vander Feer would like to testify?
17 THE WITNESS: I probably should. I'll just be a
18 minute.
19
20 MELANIE VANDER FEER,
21 first duly sworn to tell the truth relating to said
22 cause, testified as follows:
23
24 MR. NEWTON: Could you state your name and spell
25 your last.
M&M Court Reporting LLC
Page 32
1 MS. VANDER FEER: It's Melanie Vander Feer.
2 V-A-N-D-E-R and capital F-E-E-R.
3 MR. NEWTON: And which system are you on?
4 MS. VANDER FEER: Bitterroot.
5 MR. NEWTON: Thank you. Go ahead.
6 MS. VANDER FEER: Most of the things said here
7 today are things I was going to say, but the one
8 concerning thing from me is the drop from the
9 15,000 gallon to 10. Where my water bill now at the end
10 of summer is 350 and up, and if they were to do that, I
11 honestly would not be able to water the grass like I do,
12 my flowers. I grow a small garden. And those things
13 are important to me. I -- I love flowers, as I'm sure
14 you guys to do, but I wouldn't be able to do that. And
15 so that's concerning. And then to have dry grass all
16 around my house when there's so many fires every year,
17 that's also concerning.
18 And as you know, groceries are double. Gas is
19 double. Now, a 135 percent hike in water would be
20 really hard for us, and we'd have to consider moving,
21 and I -- I don't really want to move. And actually my
22 husband says he wants to live there until he dies, so
23 that's going to be a problem if we can't live there.
24 So I really would like to see you guys decline
25 this application, especially for the sake of the ones
M&M Court Reporting LLC
Page 33
1 that are struggling to meet bills every month and live
2 week to week.
3 I know there's young families in my
4 neighborhood, and they do struggle. And so another
5 raise in another area is going to be really hard. And I
6 really believe you need to consider that. People are
7 really hurting right now and they shouldn't have to lose
8 their homes over things like this.
9 So I thank you for your consideration of that.
10 Thank you so much for having me.
11 COMMISSIONER ANDERSON: Thank you,
12 Ms. Vander Feer.
13 Any questions from the parties?
14 We -- our list for wanting to speak is
15 extinguished. Is there anybody that wishes to speak?
16 This is your opportunity.
17 Please.
18
19 STEPHANIE GOSSARD,
20 first duly sworn to tell the truth relating to said
21 cause, testified as follows:
22
23 MR. NEWTON: Would you state --
24 MS. GOSSARD: Stephanie, S-T-E-P-H-A-N-I-E.
25 Last name is Gossard, G-O-S-S-A-R-D.
M&M Court Reporting LLC
Page 34
1 MR. NEWTON: Would you mind using that mic.
2 MS. GOSSARD: I don't a big enough mouth.
3 MR. NEWTON: And what system are you on?
4 MS. GOSSARD: We're on the Bitterroot System.
5 MR. NEWTON: Okay. Thank you.
6 MS. GOSSARD: So we're Meadow Loop.
7 I just have a couple points. One important one.
8 When they sent us the original notice, the
9 applicant failed to notify us of anything other than
10 just the rate increase. Many of us don't have access to
11 Internet, so they weren't able to see what was going on
12 with this application that they proposed.
13 There were two additional items, which we've
14 already spoken about, which were the 15,000 gallons
15 being reduced to 10, and then per 1,000 overage, the
16 increase in that. I find that a failure of their
17 application. Should be denied on that count.
18 Everything has pretty much been covered. The
19 exception, maybe, of a lot of the people out in our
20 neighborhood have livestock. It's not just watering
21 your flowers or watering your yard. Keeping a green
22 space around the house is really important during fire
23 season. We're not given credit for that if they're
24 taking that away -- the gallons away from us.
25 We don't get any kickback on the water that we
M&M Court Reporting LLC
Page 35
1 don't use during the winter months. They just do an
2 estimate in the winter by driving -- not even driving
3 by, but thinking maybe this is what we use, so when they
4 finally figure it out by April or May, there's no
5 kickback to us.
6 New homes that are being built, are they being
7 put on this water system? Who's paying for that? Why
8 are we paying for any kind improvements for the new
9 homes that are coming in? Are there impact fees? Are
10 we paying that?
11 Water pressure is an issue. Several years ago
12 they had a fire in the neighborhood. They didn't have
13 enough water pressure coming out of the hydrant. They
14 had to bring in pumper trucks.
15 Customer service is an issue. The bills are
16 sporadic. They come on a little 3-by-4 postcard. That
17 doesn't take a whole lot to do that.
18 Fixed income. People are hurting with the
19 economy.
20 Just should be denied in its entirety. And I
21 think a lot of us wouldn't mind a small increase in a
22 monthly fee, but all the rest of the stuff, I don't
23 think they should be granted any of that because they
24 didn't provide us legal notice.
25 Thank you.
M&M Court Reporting LLC
Page 36
1 COMMISSIONER ANDERSON: Thank you for your
2 testimony as well.
3 Any cross of the parties?
4 Thank you.
5 Has anybody else signed up that I'm missing, or
6 anybody else that hasn't signed up that wishes to speak?
7 Yes, please.
8 MS. RANSIER: I have several things I wanted to
9 speak --
10 THE REPORTER: You need to come up.
11 COMMISSIONER ANDERSON: Please, come and join.
12 MS. RANSIER: I have several things to say. Can
13 I speak now and at the next meeting?
14 COMMISSIONER ANDERSON: Yes, you may.
15
16 SHERRY RANSIER,
17 first duly sworn to tell the truth relating to said
18 cause, testified as follows:
19
20 MS. RANSIER: Is this already on?
21 MR. NEWTON: Could you state your name.
22 MS. RANSIER: Sherry Ransier.
23 MR. NEWTON: And spell your last name.
24 MS. RANSIER: R-A-N-S-I-E-R, and I'm with the
25 Happy Valley System.
M&M Court Reporting LLC
Page 37
1 MR. NEWTON: Thank you. Go ahead.
2 THE WITNESS: Okay. I just wanted to talk this
3 time about the billing.
4 So the billing is usually, it used to be just
5 every 30 days. You have the whole month of July. The
6 whole month of August. However, this year the billing
7 is 25 days, 30 days, or 35 days. In July, my last
8 weekend in July -- now, it's hot it's summertime.
9 That's when you're going to water -- it was -- my meter
10 was read on Friday, and the whole weekend of July was
11 added to my August usage.
12 The City of Rathdrum, their customers get
13 20,000 gallons for $27 a month. That's exactly what I
14 get now. I don't know what their overage rate is.
15 For six months out of the year, typically
16 October to March, they don't read the meters. I talked
17 to the staff because the computer automatically adds
18 20,000 gallon of usage. And I asked them why that was,
19 and she said it's the only way the computer will
20 generate a monthly bill in the months that the meters
21 are not actually read.
22 Now, prior to Gem State, the Rickel Water
23 System, they would just show no usage, and you would
24 just get your base rate. So I'm wondering how that
25 20,000 gallons of usage is going to figure into the
M&M Court Reporting LLC
Page 38
1 system. I'm not even using that water. Are they going
2 to re-enter a valid number when they aggregate the usage
3 during the first month of actual reading, which
4 typically occurs in April.
5 So they're saying the computer automatically
6 puts in the 20,000 gallon. That's your base rate, and
7 that's the only way it will give you a bill. So are
8 they going to take the time to go back for those six
9 months and actually enter the average that was actually
10 used? The way they figure that is when they read it in
11 April, they take that total difference between the last
12 reading in October and then divide it by the six months
13 and allow you that much every month.
14 That's all I have to say. Thank you.
15 COMMISSIONER ANDERSON: Thank you.
16 Do we have any questions from the parties?
17 Thank you for your testimony.
18 This your opportunity to speak. We will have
19 another hearing this evening for those that could not
20 get off work today, so if you think of something and you
21 haven't spoken, you can come back later on. But this is
22 your opportunity to have your say with the commission.
23 Please.
24 You're going to speak for a second time it looks
25 like.
M&M Court Reporting LLC
Page 39
1 MS. EAST: I am.
2 COMMISSIONER ANDERSON: And so once again your
3 testimony will be the truth.
4 MS. EAST: Colleen East, again. Bitterroot.
5 MR. NEWTON: Thank you.
6 MS. EAST: One of the things I think that Gem
7 State could do to help with the residents, I keep
8 hearing about there's not going to be enough water for a
9 fire. There's not going to be enough water for a fire.
10 I came from a fire area. I had to know how to evacuate
11 my house in five minutes.
12 We were evacuated last summer, summer before. I
13 know when they tell you to get out, you get out. That
14 leaves enough room for the fire trucks to maneuver. I
15 also know to turn my water off. That leaves enough
16 water for the fire department. Never have I seen
17 anything educating the customers, especially after that
18 evacuation, on how to prepare for a fire. And I think
19 Gem State could do that and enhance their community
20 relations, if you will, by educating people. This is
21 how you evacuate. You go now. You turn off your water.
22 You clear your street so the fire trucks can get through
23 and you leave them enough water.
24 So I think that's another thing that adds into
25 this with fire prep. We have seen a lot more fires up
M&M Court Reporting LLC
Page 40
1 here in the last few years, so I think that would also
2 be something that might be taken into consideration.
3 COMMISSIONER ANDERSON: Thank you, Ms. East.
4 Are there any further questions from the
5 parties?
6 Thank you.
7 Anyone else? We're here for you so if you get
8 home and think of something and you don't live too far
9 away, please come back and share with us.
10 But with that we are going to recess until our
11 next hearing, which starts at 6:00, 6:00 o'clock.
12 So thank you very much for your testimony here.
13 These things have been noted and it will become part of
14 the record. And we thank you again.
15 Yes?
16 MS. GOSSARD: I have a question.
17 COMMISSIONER ANDERSON: You were reluctant to
18 talk at first and now you're back.
19 MS. GOSSARD: Stephanie Gossard, again.
20 Gem State Water, who owns them? Where are they
21 out of?
22 Gem State Water who owns them?
23 COMMISSIONER ANDERSON: Typically we -- at these
24 public hearings we -- we refrain from answering
25 questions. We actually ask the questions.
M&M Court Reporting LLC
Page 41
1 So we did have a workshop, and I will advise you
2 of this: We could answer that, but I would encourage
3 you to talk to any of our staff members afterwards and
4 you can get all that information needed from them.
5 THE WITNESS: I was at the workshop. We got
6 that information. I just kind of wanted in on the
7 record.
8 COMMISSIONER ANDERSON: Well, it is on the
9 record. And I don't mean to apologize for this, but
10 this is kind of the process. We ask the questions here.
11 We take notes. This is your day, not our day to be
12 quizzed or to answer those things. So thank you very
13 much.
14 And anybody that wants to talk to our staff, we
15 do have little red badges on.
16 So anyone else?
17 Thank you. And we will see you here at 6:00, or
18 we will see you next time.
19 (The proceeding concluded at 2:56 p.m.)
20
21
22
23
24
25
M&M Court Reporting LLC
M&MCouñRepodingLLC 42
1 REPORTER'S CERTIFICATE
2
3 I,Valerie J.Legg,Certified Shorthand
4 Reporter,do hereby certify:
5 That the foregoing proceedings were taken
6 before me at the time and place therein set forth;
7 That the proceedings were recorded
8 stenographically by me and were thereafter transcribed
9 by me;
10 That the foregoing is a true and correct record
11 of the proceedings,to the best of my ability;
12 IN WITNESS WHEREOF,I have hereunto set my hand
13 and seal February 3,2023.
17
VALERIE J.LEGG,ID SRL-968
18 Notary Public
816 Sherman Avenue,Suite 7
19 Coeur d'Alene,ID 83814
20 My Commission Expires July 21,2020
21
22
23
24
25