FAIRFAX.docx

1 (The following proceedings were
2 had in open hearing.)
3 COMMISSIONER KJELLANDER: And,
4 Mr. Fairfax, if you would like, we'd also offer you
5 the opportunity if you wanted to make an opening
6 statement as part of your testimony; or if you'd
7 rather just subject yourself to questions, we could
8 go that route as well.
9 THE WITNESS: The only thing I wanted
10 to state is answer a question, and she asked about
11 securing the pipes.
12 We actually had a customer out there
13 that had to be shut off and so we -- I attempted to
14 secure the stand-pipe until he paid his bill, and
15 what I did is I drilled holes through the pipe and
16 put a locking mechanism with a bar on it. Well, he
17 proceeded to cut that off.
18 So then I went out and glued the cap
19 on. He cut that off.
20 So then my last alternative was to put
21 a bag of cement down in there to keep him from
22 actually turning his valve on and off.
23 So as far as that goes, you know,
24 there is hazards to shutting somebody's water off.
25 The customers can come out there and threaten you,
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1 which I've been threatened before with death and my
2 house being burned down. So, you know, as far as
3 why there should be a fee, it's more because when
4 you're shutting off the water is because it's
5 hazardous. They don't like their water to get shut
6 off and some people can get downright irate about
7 getting it shut off. So I hope that answers your
8 question a little better.
9 COMMISSIONER KJELLANDER: Thank you,
10 Mr. Fairfax, and at this point then we'll allow
11 cross-examination from Ms. Nordstrom.
12 MS. NORDSTROM: Thank you.
13
14 CROSS-EXAMINATION
15
16 BY MS. NORDSTROM:
17 Q. Mr. Fairfax, I've heard bits and
18 pieces about your background in different places,
19 but I was wondering if you could explain what kind
20 of training or experience you have in dealing with
21 small water companies and their repairs such to
22 qualify you as an operator of the system.
23 A. Well actually I've been working on
24 this system for about 13 years. I'm also a small --
25 excuse me -- a septic installer; I have that license
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1 too.
2 I've got my own company, Fairfax
3 Logging and Excavating. I own an excavator and a
4 cat and I do house sites, and I've done
5 approximately 100 installations on different houses.
6 I've put most of the power into the
7 Ponderosa for the power company.
8 And, basically, that's pretty much it.
9 Q. So it's fair to say that you are very
10 familiar with this particular system?
11 A. Yes, I am.
12 Q. From the testimony that's been
13 provided today, I've kind of gathered that the
14 nature of your future employment with Ponderosa is
15 somewhat uncertain at this point. What would make
16 it more certain?
17 A. How this hearing turns out today,
18 basically. You know, what's -- what's going on
19 here, what -- what's going to be said and done,
20 what, you know -- what besides what was said in
21 here, you know, what was said today, more on the
22 grounds, you know, my pay can be fluctuated and it's
23 more than $5 a days that it came out to be said in
24 the first place, you know. And that I'm covered,
25 you know, I don't have to worry about, you know,
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1 getting my electricity and my water, you know,
2 which, to be honest, is, you know, a benefit to the
3 Company more than it is to me, you know, whereas I
4 could pay my electricity in two hours of my working
5 at my excavator, whereas, you know, what I go
6 through for -- to earn that with the water system is
7 way a lot more hours than that, so --
8 Q. Well, it's pretty obvious from the
9 comments of the public that has testified in the
10 public hearing portion of today's hearing, as well
11 as Mr. Cobott, that everyone agrees that you do a
12 pretty good job and you're pretty easy to work with
13 and they like having you around. So I guess my
14 question is: Is there a deal-breaker amount that
15 you have to get paid, otherwise you're just not
16 interested?
17 A. Pretty much about half of what I have
18 on here, which came to about 15,000 a year. If I'm
19 getting around 7,000, that would cover everything --
20 Q. Okay.
21 A. -- pretty good.
22 Q. I was looking through the papers that
23 you filed with the Commission as your testimony and
24 it looked like on the first page your repairs for
25 2002, I counted up about 15 hours of repairs. Is
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1 that about right?
2 A. Yep.
3 Q. And approximately what sort of a wage
4 did you feel was appropriate for those 15 hours of
5 work?
6 A. Well, like I say, I make $75 an hour
7 with my excavator and 65 with my cat, and so, you
8 know, there's digging in there and that's why, you
9 know, split it out of the labor and the digging and
10 stuff like that, you know. So basically, you know,
11 on the first one, we got an hour to find a problem,
12 which is about 20 bucks an hour to go look for the
13 problem in the first place. Then I get 20 bucks an
14 hour, same with the running for the parts, getting
15 everything I needed. And to dig it, actually
16 digging it up itself, well in this case it was
17 working down in the vault, I get $50 an hour for
18 that. And same with installing the new parts,
19 usually because that's not just one person doing
20 that, that's like two to three people. I usually
21 have my sons helping me. One of them is 18 and the
22 other one is 15, and they help me do the work and it
23 cuts the time down.
24 Q. Okay. Do you know approximately how
25 much money was spent on parts for these repairs that
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1 occurred in 2002 that you have listed?
2 A. Yeah. On the one where the main valve
3 broke in the vault, that was probably about $350,
4 because at the same time I pulled the valve out I
5 noticed that the check valve had worn and was really
6 loose, so instead of wasting another breakdown I
7 went ahead and replaced that at the same time,
8 saving the time of having to tear down. And the
9 whole system has to be shut down for any repairs in
10 the vault because all the water drains down to the
11 pipes, not the tanks -- I'm able to shut those
12 off -- but still the water in the line itself which
13 is approximately 2000 gallons alone, and that water
14 comes into the vault and then it has to be pumped
15 out simultaneously with another pump. So I did that
16 all at the same time just to try to save the system
17 some money.
18 Q. The main line, the main line leak at
19 Wayne Pratt's, the second thing you have listed,
20 approximately how much was spent for parts on that?
21 A. That one was a little different. When
22 I found the leak, it was in the middle of January I
23 think. The ground was frozen solid so it was quite
24 different. I had to -- I couldn't get the little
25 excavator to start, it was too cold and it was all
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1 froze up, so I had to bring my big excavator for
2 that one to dig it up. We were able to drag the
3 excavator to the garage with my big excavator and
4 get it started to finish the job, but we had --
5 The parts weren't that much. I think
6 it was like 90 to $150. I did have to get bags of
7 sand on that job because the ground was all frozen
8 and the water had saturated the dirt that wasn't
9 frozen, and so I couldn't use it to pack around the
10 valves. I had to put the sand bags in to hold the
11 water pipe in place. So there's a lot of pressure
12 down on the very end of the line and that's where
13 this break was, so instead of just burying it with
14 wet dirt, I had to put the bags of sand around it
15 and put the loose sand over the top of it to hold it
16 in place.
17 Q. Could you estimate approximately how
18 much money was spent in parts on that third repair
19 that's listed?
20 A. What happened, that was almost the
21 same repair except for I didn't want to put a valve
22 out there in the road again for it to break again,
23 so we waited until springtime -- the customer was
24 willing to wait -- and then we put his valve on the
25 inside in his yard where it wasn't going to be
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1 affected by snowplowing, which probably took this
2 one out in the first place. And then that one ran
3 probably about the same, about 150 bucks. We had to
4 put a stand-pipe in, a new valve, and then the
5 fittings that go into that.
6 Q. You also listed on the second page of
7 the information you provided repairs that were done
8 in the year 2001?
9 A. Right.
10 Q. And I -- well, when I added it up, I
11 came up with about 28 hours?
12 A. Yeah, that's right.
13 Q. So granted this is just two years,
14 2000 and 2001, but would you say this is fairly
15 typical of the kind of repairs that you make on the
16 system in past years?
17 A. Actually, the years prior to this were
18 actually worse when we had some major leaks that I
19 had to find out and stuff like that. It was a lot
20 harder locating those. But for the main part as
21 long as we don't have any serious breakdowns, that's
22 pretty close.
23 We actually the year before when we
24 put the well and the pumphouse and everything, that
25 was a really heavy year, a lot more expenses in
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1 there.
2 And then a couple of times on this too
3 I have my crew that works with me on my job, I
4 brought them out and they were helping to dig these
5 up to cut my time down too, so --
6 Q. You listed 11 different repair jobs
7 here in 2001. Did they all run approximately 150 or
8 $200 per repair job, or were there any that were
9 extraordinarily expensive or inexpensive?
10 A. Well, some of them were lower, like a
11 couple we dug, we just dug them up, cut the line off
12 and capped it off. So those ones were, you know,
13 parts were just a cap. It was actually kind of
14 cheaper than the other ones.
15 Like Plotskis, one, it was a
16 frost-free valve. Had to dig, you know, repair
17 that, and that was one of the ones where he left --
18 you know, it was a frost-free valve so he can run it
19 all winter, but he left one of those splitters on it
20 so the frost-free valve wouldn't leak back down, it
21 froze up, so I had to dig that up and repair it.
22 Steve Nelson, this one was a valve, so
23 it was probably 150.
24 Frost-free on top. Now, that was one
25 where a customer up there didn't have a water on his
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1 lot. There was supposed to be one there so we had
2 to put in a valve, and then he wanted a frost-free
3 valve put in at the same time and he actually paid
4 for his parts on the frost-free valve.
5 For the most part, most of them run
6 150 or less on the repair.
7 Q. Okay. Well, I was looking at Exhibit
8 No. 101 created by Mr. Smith, and on line 10, he
9 listed $2,600 allocation that he proposes for system
10 repair.
11 A. Right.
12 Q. Does that seem about right to you for
13 labor and parts?
14 A. For, yeah, for breakdowns for one
15 year.
16 Q. Yes?
17 A. Yeah, we can probably work in that
18 budget. That's real close, like I say, as long as
19 we don't have no major breakdowns.
20 Q. Right. And certainly if the
21 maintenance reserve -- the $2,400 a year -- were
22 approved, then any extraordinary repairs could come
23 out of that fund?
24 A. Right. So you've got the 26 and the
25 2,400.
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1 Q. Right.
2 A. Right.
3 Q. Okay. Now, on the third page of the
4 information you provided the Commission, you listed
5 out your various duties and responsibilities that
6 you provide to the Company. It seems as though
7 there might have been some concern that some of
8 these could be done at the same time and may not
9 take a full half hour or hour. What's your response
10 to that?
11 A. Well, you know, there is some if you
12 look on there like the chlorine test, the daily
13 reading, and the book work, there's a half hour on
14 each one of those. Sometimes when you go down to
15 the pumphouse you can get the reading and then you
16 come back and that takes about 20 minutes, might not
17 always take a half an hour, but like in the
18 wintertime it might take twice that long because you
19 have to go down and shovel in front of the door to
20 get in there, or, you know, you go down there and a
21 tree's blown over and it's right in front of there.
22 So there's other times that it takes longer, so that
23 was pretty much an average.
24 The test, it always takes at least
25 half an hour because what that involves is you have
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1 to run the water for at least 15 minutes. You've
2 got to clean your spigot before you take your test,
3 otherwise you get a false reading.
4 Then you have to set up your
5 chlorimeter. That requires that you take one tube
6 and you put it in your chlorination reader meter and
7 then it gives you a blank test. That makes sure
8 your chlorinator is zeroed out.
9 Then you take your other tube and you
10 fill it out and it has the mixture already in it.
11 It's in a vacuum-sealed tube. And you put that in
12 the chlorimeter and that gives you your reading, and
13 you write that reading down in the book. That's the
14 easiest way to do it.
15 The one he was referring to where you
16 have to mix the solution, those aren't accurate.
17 The DEQ will tell you that, that you can be your own
18 judge on what color matches what and a reading
19 wouldn't be accurate, but with the chlorimeter
20 you're getting exactly what it says every time. You
21 can't say, Well, today it looks a little bit lighter
22 or whatever.
23 So in that, then you have to put it in
24 the book, you've got to compare your water, see how
25 much you've used, and then you'll know if the
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1 chlorination was way high, then you'll know
2 something is up with your water meter, be it high or
3 low or whatever it is. Basically those take what it
4 says there, half an hour to do that and sometimes a
5 little longer, especially if you find out if your
6 water is way too high, then you've got to go down
7 and see what's up.
8 Q. Now you mentioned there on Item No. 3
9 of your daily schedule that book work takes a half
10 hour. Is it something more involved than just
11 writing down the level of chlorination?
12 A. Yeah, there's actually -- you've got
13 to write your reading down first, and you subtract
14 that reading from the day before and that gives your
15 next column that's actual water usage.
16 And then your other reading goes on
17 the right-hand column.
18 And then you've got to decide what's
19 going on that day, if there's a comment to make.
20 Like let's say the reading is way too high, you
21 know, if there's some reason for that, you've got to
22 go figure it out. You know, the chlorinator needs
23 adjusting or water's, you know -- you use 20,000
24 gallons that day, there's a leak somewhere, so that
25 kicks in the extra chlorination and, you know,
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1 what's up?
2 And so it does take half an hour.
3 You've got to make sure everything's right, you
4 know.
5 Q. Are those books audited by DEQ or
6 someone else?
7 A. I report every month. I've got to
8 send them in a copy of the full page that's filled
9 out and he reviews it, and he's supposed to fax me
10 back and let me know that he's got it.
11 Q. Okay. You have some numbers at the
12 left-hand side of your third page?
13 A. Uh-huh.
14 Q. For instance, the top line says ten
15 times 365 equals 3,650. Could you explain what
16 those numbers are?
17 A. That's referring to $10 an hour in the
18 first column, 365 days a year because that's -- I'm
19 on call 24 hours a day, I do that one every day, and
20 that's where you get the 3650 on the next column.
21 Q. Okay. So that's the portion of your
22 salary for each task?
23 A. Right. Well that's -- that's
24 basically what, you know, at $20 an hour, what it
25 would cost.
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1 Q. At $10 an hour?
2 A. Twenty.
3 Q. Oh, because they're half?
4 A. Right, they're half hours.
5 Q. Right. Okay. I get it.
6 Now, I notice that further down you
7 have different wages for different tasks?
8 A. They're all based on $20 an hour.
9 Let's say the task takes two hours or two and a half
10 hours. Then it was 40.5 dollars.
11 And if the task down here took four
12 hours, it was $80.
13 Q. I see.
14 A. You know, some of the different
15 things, you know, like check the tanks, you know, if
16 you look at that and then it says Cruise the system.
17 Well, the reason you can't do that at the same time
18 is because the tanks are up on top of this hill.
19 You've got to hike up this gully and straight up the
20 mountain and there's no stand-pipes or nothing up
21 that line. It's strictly a line that feeds up to
22 the tanks and comes back down. And that's 1,620
23 feet straight up and straight down, and it's not an
24 easy walk. You don't just go jumping out there, I
25 don't care what shape you're in.
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1 Q. So there's no road?
2 A. No, the road's over on my property to
3 access up to the tanks, and you can't really see the
4 whole line, you know. And you've got to be able to
5 walk the system and listen, even have to use a stick
6 sometimes to put it to the ground. Like Lyle says,
7 that's all gravel up there. If you've got a leak,
8 you've got to be able to hear the water actually
9 running. They've actually loaned me a water tester
10 that you can put to the ground and listen to it and
11 hear the water when it's leaking because -- it
12 sounds simple, but it's not quite as simple as it
13 is, especially once you get out there and start
14 doing it. Like he said, there's 82 lots, and to
15 cruise down the whole system and checked every one
16 of those stand-pipes takes a little while. You just
17 can't drive by and look at it and see if it's
18 leaking. You've got to get out and look down at the
19 stand-pipe, put the stick to the stand-pipe itself
20 so you can hear if the water is flowing in there.
21 Q. And how often do you do that?
22 A. That one is every -- at least once a
23 week and sometimes even more. It just depends on if
24 we get a high reading, then I go out and check and
25 look for a leak.
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1 Q. Thank you. I have no further
2 questions.
3 COMMISSIONER KJELLANDER: Thank you.
4 Are there questions from members of the Commission?
5 Mr. Fairfax -- Mr. Cobott, do you have
6 any questions of Mr. Fairfax, or, Mr. Fairfax, would
7 you like to add anything else with regards to your
8 testimony today?
9 MR. COBOTT: All I can add is that
10 Larry has been an asset to the water system and I'd
11 like him very much to remain.
12 COMMISSIONER KJELLANDER: Thank you.
13 All right. And I think that concludes your case,
14 Mr. Cobott, and we appreciate your testimony of both
15 yourself and Mr. Fairfax.
16 (The witness left the stand.)
17 COMMISSIONER KJELLANDER: Is there
18 anything else that needs to come before the
19 Commission in reference to the technical hearing
20 today?
21 MS. NORDSTROM: Staff would like to
22 move for Exhibits 101 through 119 to be admitted
23 into evidence.
24 COMMISSIONER KJELLANDER: Okay.
25 Without objection, those exhibits will be admitted
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1 into evidence and the testimony that's already been
2 spread across the record is also admitted without
3 objection.
4 (Staff Exhibit Nos. 101 through
5 119 were admitted into evidence.)
6 COMMISSIONER KJELLANDER: Anything
7 else need to come before the Commission at this
8 time?
9 MS. NORDSTROM: No.
10 COMMISSIONER KJELLANDER: Then at this
11 point we will adjourn the technical hearing, and we
12 will take about a 15-minute break and come back to
13 this room at just a few minutes after six o'clock
14 and pick up with the public hearing.
15 For those of you who may have just
16 come in over the last few minutes, there were
17 several people who came in earlier today who did
18 take their public testimony during breaks within the
19 technical hearing.
20 So we will come back about 6:05 with
21 the public hearing and we'll move from there and
22 we'll offer instructions on how that will work. So
23 we appreciate your diligence and we'll see you at
24 that point. So at this point, the technical hearing
25 is adjourned.
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