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1 (The following proceedings were
2 had in open hearing.)
3 COMMISSIONER KJELLANDER: And
4 typically at this point what we do would be to
5 subject you now to cross-examination, but in light
6 of the fact that I know you have some general
7 statements and comments that you would like to make,
8 why don't we begin with those and we'll include that
9 then as part of the official record, and then move
10 forward into the cross-examination. So, Mr. Cobott,
11 if you would like to provide an additional statement
12 and comments?
13 THE WITNESS: In regards to rates, the
14 residential rates and part-time rates, the way that
15 I have to look at this is who is putting the most
16 strain on the water system as far as electricity,
17 use of the pumps, chlorination, so on and so forth.
18 That's why I -- that's why I think that the resident
19 owners and any owner that has a live-in structure --
20 which I call a live-in is something that they can
21 drive up to, get out of their car, open the door,
22 walk in, and be at home -- I think those particular
23 people and the full-time residents should pay the
24 majority of the expense of the water system because
25 those are the ones that -- that are putting the
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1 strain on the system. And I also have no control as
2 far as when these nonresident people come up and use
3 their facilities. I don't know if they're there
4 once a month, once a year. I have no way of
5 knowing. So that's my comments on that particular
6 item.
7 If some of the other rate classes --
8 five, six, seven, or whatever Michael Fuss has come
9 up with -- are implemented with a lot of different
10 situations, it's going to cause a lot of problems
11 with bookkeeping as far as having to make sure that
12 someone is charged for four months and -- I mean,
13 it's just a big -- it would be a lot more work to
14 try to control that. And the problem that I've had
15 in the past is a lot of these customers or
16 landowners -- I shouldn't say a lot of them --
17 there's a few landowners that are residents that
18 will call me up and tell me that they're going on a
19 nonresident status. Well they might be going on a
20 vacation or whatever, I don't know, but they want to
21 be charged nonresident.
22 Well in the past, nonresident was $30
23 or it was 10.85 prior to that. What they do is they
24 leave for a few weeks or maybe a month, and then
25 they come back and they neglect to tell anybody that
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1 they're back. So, consequently, I'm billing them
2 for the nonresident rate because I have no idea that
3 they're back. And I eventually catch it within a
4 few months, I catch it, but this is some of the
5 things that happens. You can't watch everybody, you
6 can't be there 24/7 and watch everybody, and a lot
7 of times when people come back you can't even tell
8 they're back. Their houses are back in the woods;
9 you can't even see.
10 It's been stated that -- by
11 Bob Smith -- that every water system, even though
12 it's a water system servicing landowners, they're
13 all different. We're not -- we don't all come out
14 of a mold. We all have our own set of circumstances
15 and conditions pertaining to our -- that particular
16 water system. So I don't see how you can judge one
17 against the other, because every one has
18 different -- different problems.
19 I brought this up to Michael Fuss and
20 Lisa, and now I want to bring it up and put it on
21 record:
22 I want to know what is going to happen
23 as far as the moneys owed to me from the landowners
24 from before PUC got involved. Some of these
25 landowners owe me a lot of money. Granted, some of
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1 it's my fault. I've tried to be firm but when
2 somebody has three or four kids and it's in the
3 middle of the winter, I just can't bring myself to
4 turn them off, and they have abused me. I want to
5 know what I can do to collect this back revenue.
6 Now, I was told by Michael Fuss that
7 whenever the Commission makes their ruling, it
8 starts from that date, nothing previous, it's just
9 like starting a new company. I can agree with that,
10 but I want to know -- this is money owed to the
11 customer, to me, from these landowners. It's not
12 fair from the other landowners' aspect that they
13 have paid all this time but these other landowners
14 haven't. That's not right. I don't want to get
15 myself in jeopardy because Joe Brown will come to me
16 and say: Hey, I've paid you all along and now you
17 just wrote off Bill Casey's water bill. How come I
18 didn't get the same treatment? I want the same
19 amount of credit. I want the same amount of free
20 water. Plus, I want my money.
21 I still haven't got answered to my
22 satisfaction a reasonable return on my investment or
23 a monthly profit. Bob Smith has indicated $3,000 a
24 year for this, and that includes the loan that I had
25 to take out to get to pay for the water, the second
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1 well. $3,000 a year is nothing. $3,000 a year
2 should be the minimal amount of profit alone.
3 Originally I asked for $300 a month is what I asked
4 for for profit. I think I'm entitled to profit.
5 This business is no different than any other
6 business. It's entitled to make a profit.
7 In regards to my testimony, I was told
8 to give a honest testimony. I have not tried to in
9 any of my conversations with Bob Smith or
10 Michael Fuss or when I've talked to Lisa, I've not
11 tried to hide anything. They asked me to make a
12 testimony. Michael Fuss sent me the paperwork to
13 follow, which I appreciated, and I followed it. I
14 tried to be as honest as I could for what I do. I
15 tried to be as honest as I could as far as coming up
16 with the amount of time it takes to do certain
17 functions during the course of a month. Let's say
18 just for an example that we take -- even if you took
19 30 hours away, you disallowed 30 hours of the 76,
20 you'd be real close to the $1,000, even if you
21 adjusted that much, which is almost probably 40
22 percent. Again, I was trying to be reasonable here,
23 the word "reasonable." I show $1,520 and I said I
24 would settle for $1,000.
25 Bob Smith has indicated that he has
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1 allowed me 12 percent. Well, the interest on my
2 mortgage alone is 11.74, so where does my capital
3 investment come in, where does my profits come in?
4 He says all of this is combined into one thing. I
5 requested 15 percent. I wasn't trying to be
6 unreasonable; I was trying to be reasonable.
7 Says here the statement is Should
8 Ponderosa receive more labor-related compensation or
9 a higher rate of return than other regulated small
10 water companies.
11 Again, I don't care -- I put "yes" as
12 the answer. Again, I don't care what other
13 companies do. All I'm really concerned with is that
14 I receive enough revenue to make my company
15 functional. That's all I care about. Not a dollar
16 more, not a dollar less. I don't care what another
17 company does.
18 I agree with Michael Fuss's
19 recommendations for the $2,500 hookup. I agree with
20 the 37 hookups at present. The thing I don't agree
21 is when I have to write letters to tell people that
22 they have to have their -- they're going to have
23 their water shut off, and then I have to write
24 another letter and get it to them within 24 hours,
25 and then I have to physically go out there and knock
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1 on their door and tell them I'm turning their water
2 off and ask if they got the letters and why they're
3 not paying their bill, and so on and so forth, I
4 can't see that I can't -- I don't understand why I
5 can't charge a turnoff fee as well as a turnon fee.
6 Somebody physically has to go out there to turn the
7 water back on again after they pay. I think that
8 turnon and turnoff fee should be $50 each way. I
9 found in my experience over the years the higher the
10 price you put on situations like this, whether it's
11 turn on or turn off water or abusement of the system
12 or whatever, the likelihood is that they're not
13 going to let it get turned off because they don't
14 want to have to pay the $100 extra, and that's what
15 I've experienced.
16 The other thing that I've experienced
17 in water systems and I've had a lot of landowners
18 call me and write me and say, Why don't you bill us
19 quarterly? Why don't you bill us every two months?
20 The reason I don't do that and can't
21 do that is for one reason: If you bill them every
22 two months, you won't get paid. The amount becomes
23 too high. They don't save the money. All of a
24 sudden, they've got to pay $100 for water and they
25 don't have it. So I'm forced to make out statements
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1 every month; there's no getting around that.
2 Another thing here is we have a great
3 amount of problem with people -- landowners, excuse
4 me -- leaving the area beginning of winter or during
5 the winter or whenever and forgetting to turn their
6 water off at the underground spigot or at the
7 underground valve. Consequently, when spring comes,
8 we have water everywhere.
9 I'm requesting a $10 charge to have
10 the water turned on or turned off, and it has to be
11 turned on by a Water Company personnel. Those
12 valves are down between four and five feet and if
13 they break -- we've had this happen with landowners
14 that have tried to put in their own water systems to
15 their homes. They get and they turn them on and
16 they break, and we've got water everywhere. This
17 has happened numerous times.
18 Q. This last part of my testimony, I'll
19 just read the paragraph. This is my feelings:
20 I want to work with PUC to make the
21 Water Company work. I've got close to $200,000
22 invested in this company and I want a decent wage
23 and return on my money. If a person does not feel
24 good about the situation he's put in, then it's
25 going to reflect on the work he does. These
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1 landowners want water but most don't think they
2 should have to pay much for it. The realization is
3 with all the controls on water these days, water is
4 not cheap anymore.
5 That's all I have to say at this
6 moment.
7 COMMISSIONER KJELLANDER: Thank you,
8 Mr. Cobott. And at this point then, we will open up
9 for cross-examination from the deputy attorney
10 general.
11 MS. NORDSTROM: Thank you.
12
13 CROSS-EXAMINATION
14
15 BY MS. NORDSTROM:
16 Q. Just as a couple preliminary
17 questions, although the water system is located in
18 the subdivision, your principal place of business is
19 in Sandpoint. Is that correct?
20 A. It's outside of Sandpoint.
21 Q. Okay. Is that the address 2626 Wrenco
22 Loop Road in Sandpoint?
23 A. Yes.
24 Q. Okay. And the name on your -- the
25 documents you sent us is PTE Water System, Inc. I
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1 take it from the "Inc." that you're incorporated?
2 A. Yes.
3 Q. So you filed something with the
4 Secretary of State?
5 A. Every year.
6 Q. Okay. I've gathered thus far that
7 there are only two employees of the Company:
8 Yourself and Mr. Fairfax. Is that correct?
9 A. Yes.
10 Q. Okay. Staff's testimony has indicated
11 that, you know, depending on -- well, Mr. Smith's
12 direct testimony talked about labor costs totaling
13 about $9,000, and then he gave a different option in
14 his rebuttal testimony which was about $10,000.
15 If I understand you correctly, you
16 would like $12,000. That's $1,000 a month for
17 twelve months. Is that correct?
18 A. Yes.
19 Q. Okay. So we're not too far apart if
20 I'm understanding this correctly.
21 In your testimony, you listed all the
22 tasks that were required to operate and manage the
23 Company. Now, was that just the things that you
24 do? Does that include Larry or the stuff that he
25 does, or is that not accounted for in your list?
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1 A. That's not accounted -- Larry's is not
2 accounted for.
3 And getting back to your previous
4 question, maybe I misunderstood that. What are you
5 talking about eight or 10,000 and going to 12,000,
6 what do you mean by that?
7 Q. Well, when I initially read your
8 testimony I thought that these were all your
9 expenses, and since Larry -- or, Mr. Fairfax -- had
10 quit and wasn't working for you anymore, that you
11 were going to do everything, and if so, what you
12 were asking for was $1,000 a month. Is that right
13 or am I misunderstanding something?
14 A. No, that's not right.
15 Q. Okay.
16 A. You're coming up with a total yearly
17 expenses of 12,000. Was that what you said just a
18 moment ago?
19 Q. For labor, yes.
20 A. How can it be 12,000 if you've got
21 eight or 10,000 in other related expenses, labor
22 expenses, and you haven't even figured in my wages
23 yet?
24 Q. Well that's what I was trying to
25 determine, because I didn't know -- because
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1 that's -- when I understood that you filed your
2 testimony, I thought that Mr. Fairfax wasn't working
3 for you. Is he working for you now?
4 A. The only thing he's doing and only
5 because the electric is still hooked up, we haven't
6 got it changed yet, he's taking the daily testing is
7 the only thing he's doing. There's no water repairs
8 being done which need to be done, and that's all
9 he's doing at this time, and compensation for -- his
10 compensation for doing that is his electric bill.
11 Q. Okay. So what is the total labor
12 expense that you're recommending that the Commission
13 adopt --
14 A. It --
15 Q. -- for both of you?
16 A. -- appears that my wages are showing
17 $320 a month: $80 a week times four. I'm saying
18 1,000. So you're talking about $680 difference per
19 month over a year, 12 months.
20 Q. Well, I was wondering if we focused on
21 the total labor costs and not just the salaries of
22 individual people but the overall labor costs. It
23 might be the differences would help resolve
24 themselves, because as there's been previous
25 testimony, the costs don't have to be allocated
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1 specifically for the various experiences so long as
2 they're expended on behalf of the Company.
3 So what is the total amount of labor
4 costs that Ponderosa is recommending for the
5 services that you provide and Mr. Fairfax provide to
6 the Company?
7 A. You're showing -- you're showing, what
8 was it, 8,000 or 10,000 before we are talking about.
9 Q. In that range, nine to $10,000.
10 But then there was -- we also
11 identified a couple of line items, line item 10 and
12 line item 33 that were about another $5,000 for
13 major repairs and emergencies?
14 A. So you're probably looking at
15 somewhere around 20,000? That's a ballpark, but I'm
16 not sure about all these little figures you're
17 talking about.
18 Q. Well --
19 A. I stated I wanted $1,000 a month.
20 Right now it's $320 a month based on four weeks.
21 Q. Okay. So the 17 items that are listed
22 on pages 1 and 2 of your testimony include all the
23 management, operation, and maintenance activities
24 except for those that Mr. Fairfax does. Correct?
25 A. Well, there's no maintenance on there.
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1 I don't have anything listed that I'm going out and
2 digging up pipe or any of that type of thing, or
3 working on the chlorinator or anything like that, or
4 taking water tests. I did not state any of that in
5 this.
6 Q. Okay.
7 A. I stated in there that I wanted --
8 that I keep records of the flow meter, of the
9 different things that I need to keep records of the
10 free chlorine tests daily, the flow meter records
11 daily, this type of thing.
12 Q. So what dollar amount of labor
13 expenses for things like water testing and things
14 that Larry used to do are not accounted for? What
15 dollar amount should the Commission pay for?
16 A. Well the thing there is if I have to
17 physically go out there every day, drive from my
18 home and go out there and take the water tests and
19 do these things every day, it's going to be pretty
20 costly. I don't want that to happen. It's about an
21 hour's drive each way from my house.
22 That's why Larry sent me a application
23 permit -- application for a permit -- to get his
24 electric separated from Ponderosa. That has not
25 been done yet for the simple reason Larry doesn't
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1 have the money to get it done and I don't have the
2 money to get it done. What's involved is we have to
3 have another meter installed and we have to call the
4 power company out to switch. It's still going to be
5 under Ponderosa's name, but it's going to be
6 Ponderosa well site and -- what did I put down,
7 Ponderosa house or something like that -- Ponderosa
8 house. That's the way we're going to get two
9 different bills from the power, and that's the way
10 it was going to be broke down. That has not been
11 done yet.
12 The water system has not received
13 revenue to keep up with all the bills and expenses,
14 it just hasn't. 100 to -- to 180 a month doesn't do
15 it, not even close. And I did pay two months of the
16 electric bill. I owe another month. There's
17 probably another month coming due now. But -- and I
18 paid the testing company, Acura Testing in
19 Coeur d'Alene. Outside of that, everything else has
20 just been kind of carrying forward.
21 Q. Do you anticipate that you will be
22 able to contract with Mr. Fairfax or some other
23 individual to help do your on-site daily testing of
24 water?
25 A. That's why Fairfax -- Mr. Fairfax --
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1 is here today. He wants this to work and I want it
2 to work. Mr. Fairfax has been doing the work on
3 this system for many years now. He knows where
4 every pipe is, where every valve is.
5 He's personally gone up to the -- went
6 up to the tanks, drained the tanks. He actually got
7 inside the tanks and cleaned them all with chlorine,
8 resurfaced. What they do is they have a tank and
9 another tank sits on top and there's a seal. He
10 redid the seals, cleaned them all up. He knows
11 everything about the system, where everything goes.
12 He's experienced as far as all of a
13 sudden you see water. He knows where to dig to find
14 that leak.
15 I was told that from I think it was
16 Randy Low (sic) is it or something that you will --
17 Lodd (sic) or something like that -- that most water
18 systems have about a 30-year life as far as pipes
19 and stuff go. Well, these pipes have been in the
20 ground now for 32 years. There's going to be
21 repairs and there has been repairs, but overall I
22 think the system is sound.
23 A lot of people have accused the
24 system of having water leaks, that's why we run out
25 of water. Well that's why we take the flow meter
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1 readings. If we have serious leaks, then the
2 serious leaks should be there 12 months a year. My
3 question is how come I can use 30,000 gallons a day
4 in the summertime and eight or 9,000 in the winter,
5 and it's the same amount of resident use. Something
6 is -- somebody here is -- well, I'm going to use the
7 word -- "abusing" the system.
8 Q. Okay.
9 A. That's where meters come in. You put
10 a meter on a system, you can tell instantly if that
11 house has a leak. You make sure all the water
12 inside the house is turned off and you look at the
13 meter. If that meter is running, then there's an
14 underground leak on the property. I can't go on the
15 property and fix underground problems, but I can
16 sure inform the landowner that they better fix that
17 leak or you're going to get your water turned off.
18 Q. Speaking of equipment and meters and
19 such, I had a question. On your page 3 the question
20 is do you own any equipment that is used by the
21 Water Company, and I took that to mean construction
22 equipment as opposed to --
23 A. Well, I have an excavator.
24 Q. Right, construction equipment like
25 excavators, as opposed to pumps and pipes and other
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1 things that are part of the company?
2 A. You're correct.
3 Q. Is that correct?
4 A. That's correct.
5 Q. Other than the incident you mentioned
6 and back in the late '90s when your address was
7 being changed on Wrenco Loop Road, have you had any
8 trouble receiving your mail recently, like within
9 the last six months or a year?
10 A. No, as long as the address is
11 correct. The problem there was when I had the 1600
12 Wrenco Loop, there was another address the same
13 vicinity just up the road a ways called Wrenco
14 Heights 1600. They were getting a lot of my mail.
15 When the County came out and changed the addresses
16 for emergency vehicles, there's still 1600 away from
17 me now. I'm 2626, which means I'm 2.6 miles in.
18 And so that's where some of the confusion comes.
19 And a lot of these people were
20 reluctant to accept their new addresses. In fact,
21 the Post Office told me when I went in and told them
22 I wanted to change the address and the guy said,
23 Well, I wouldn't do that. I'd keep them both.
24 Just shows you how people -- I don't
25 know.
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1 Q. Okay. Well, I just wanted to make
2 sure that you were receiving correspondence from the
3 Commission.
4 A. Yes, as far as I know.
5 Q. Did you receive a big packet of Orders
6 and Rules and things?
7 A. Yes.
8 Q. Okay. That's good.
9 A. Michael Fuss had already given me a
10 packet of Rules too when he met with me.
11 Q. We just want to make sure you have
12 those.
13 I know we've talked about different
14 turnoff and turnon fees for water. In your
15 testimony you mentioned $50 apiece, but then you
16 discussed a few minutes ago, you mentioned $10
17 apiece?
18 A. No, that was --
19 Q. Are we referring to different fees?
20 A. That was -- let's say that you are a
21 landowner and you're current, everything is fine,
22 but you're going to leave for two, three months,
23 maybe the wintertime, so then you want your water to
24 protect anything breaking in your house and causing
25 havoc, then you want your water turned on at --
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1 turned off at the road. Then either Larry -- in the
2 past it's been Larry -- would go out and he would
3 turn the water off for you. And then when you come
4 back, you contact him and he would turn it on for
5 you.
6 Q. So the $10 fee is more to protect the
7 resident while they're gone, rather than to protect
8 the system once someone stops paying their bills?
9 A. It's nothing to do with stop paying
10 the bill.
11 Q. That's what the $50 fee --
12 A. Just like Mr. Peterson over here. He
13 was coming up and he called. Larry just happened to
14 be -- I was with Larry. This was a couple weeks ago
15 or week and a half, something like that, and he
16 stopped by and he turned his water on because he
17 knew he was coming up. That's a very smart way for
18 these landowners to do it, but not everybody does
19 it.
20 Q. I see. Thank you for clarifying
21 that. I think that's all the questions I have.
22 Thank you.
23 COMMISSIONER KJELLANDER: Are there
24 questions from the Commission?
25
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1 EXAMINATION
2
3 BY COMMISSIONER KJELLANDER:
4 Q. I think I do have one for you and I
5 think it's along the same lines, but I might be just
6 a bit confused and I was hoping you might be able to
7 clarify it. Item No. 10 that you sort of referenced
8 in your opening comments that you made stated that
9 you wanted a $10 charge to have the water valves
10 turned on and off, and I was wondering if the $25
11 reconnect fee that Michael Fuss has recommended
12 might actually be $5 more than what you're looking
13 at in terms of that total $20 charge there which you
14 would then be able to collect upon reconnection?
15 A. There are two different things. The
16 $25 charge that Michael Fuss has talked about is
17 when somebody does not pay their bill and we have to
18 write the letters and we have to physically go out
19 and turn their water off. The water remains off
20 until they paid their bill in full, plus the
21 reconnection fee, and then the water will be turned
22 back on.
23 The $10 is referenced to a landowner
24 that is current in their water bill but they are
25 leaving. They are leaving during let's say during
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1 the winter, like the Petersons over here, they leave
2 during the winter. If they didn't turn that water
3 off, chances are they might flood their house if
4 something broke in their house.
5 So what we require is we don't want
6 landowners to go out and physically try to turn this
7 valve off themselves. They turn it the wrong way,
8 they turn it too hard, they break it, and then we
9 have to go out and dig it up and fix it.
10 Now, along the road on every lot we
11 have a six-inch stand-up pipe. It's a PVC pipe that
12 stands up out of the ground. Down in that pipe
13 approximately four, four and a half feet, is a
14 shut-off valve going to every house. That's the
15 valve that we're talking about that we turn on and
16 off for the landowners.
17 What the $10 charge is is for Larry to
18 have to go out there, or myself, physically go out
19 there with a key, drop it down in the hole, and turn
20 on or off.
21 Q. Thank you for that clarification. I
22 appreciate that.
23 And one other question; it was Item
24 No. 2 during the same testimony that you provided.
25 You were saying that you have trouble with the
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1 full-time versus part time residents when the
2 part-time residents just show up and they were on a
3 certain rate schedule and then they have been off
4 for a while and it's hard for you to know that
5 they're even back yet?
6 A. That's correct.
7 Q. Okay. Would one of the options or
8 recommendations that makes the full-time and the
9 part-time rate equivalent, would that help resolve
10 that issue?
11 A. Yes. Yes. Because the way that
12 Michael Fuss and I looked at that was if I was a
13 landowner and I had a house or a trailer or
14 something that was livable and all I had to do was
15 drive up and drive onto my lot, get out of the car
16 and go into the structure and turn on the lights,
17 turn on the power, I mean, the water, everything, is
18 there, ready to go.
19 Q. Thank you. That is all the questions
20 I have.
21 COMMISSIONER KJELLANDER: Do any of
22 the other Commissioners have questions?
23 Commissioner Smith.
24 COMMISSIONER SMITH: Thanks.
25
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HEDRICK COURT REPORTING COBOTT (Com)
P.O. BOX 578, BOISE, ID Ponderosa
1 EXAMINATION
2
3 BY COMMISSIONER SMITH:
4 Q. Just on this $10 charge to turn on and
5 off, is the $10 amount an estimate of your costs for
6 doing that?
7 A. Yes, it's just a labor fee.
8 Q. And how long does it take to put that
9 down there and twist it?
10 A. It depends. Larry lives approximately
11 anywhere from half a dozen blocks to maybe a half a
12 mile or something away, maybe a little bit more. He
13 has to go out and get the key, put it in his truck
14 and go out to the -- drive out to the lot and turn
15 it on or turn it off, whichever the case may be.
16 And in the wintertime, there might be snow on the
17 ground that he has to dig away from the stand-up to
18 get the pipe down inside of it. Sometimes he has
19 problems because kids will be kids and they'll drop
20 rocks down in the hole because it is a six-inch hole
21 that sticks up out of the ground, and he has to
22 remove that before he can get the water turned off.
23 The main thing is I don't want
24 customers doing it themselves, because I've had I
25 would say close to a dozen now that have actually
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HEDRICK COURT REPORTING COBOTT (Com)
P.O. BOX 578, BOISE, ID Ponderosa
1 wrecked the valves, and then you get into bringing a
2 backhoe, digging it up, replace it, and it's very
3 costly.
4 Q. Well I'd like your -- I guess your
5 reaction to this idea:
6 It occurs to me that instead of
7 charging them on both ends, you ought to pick either
8 the shutoff point or the turnon point and just
9 charge them one fee. So, for example, somebody
10 says, I'm leaving for the winter, I want it shut
11 off. You say, That's going to be X dollars, whether
12 it's 10 or 15 or something else. And then they know
13 that when they come back in the spring they just
14 call and say, I want it turned on. And you just go
15 do it for the one fee instead of the two charges.
16 A. Well, we can increase the fee, that's
17 fine, but it takes the same amount of time to do
18 both, so --
19 Q. Well I was trying to think of a way to
20 encourage people to call, like maybe your shutoff is
21 free and then you pay to get turned on in the spring
22 or -- I just don't -- I think people -- everybody
23 likes to be self-sufficient and think they can do it
24 themselves. They know where the thing is, they've
25 got this key, they just turn it.
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HEDRICK COURT REPORTING COBOTT (Com)
P.O. BOX 578, BOISE, ID Ponderosa
1 A. It's a big key. It's a big piece of
2 metal.
3 Q. And everybody wants to save a buck.
4 So I was trying to think of some way to structure it
5 so that they have an incentive to call you, but I
6 haven't thought of it yet.
7 A. Well, this stand-up pipe with the
8 valve is the property of Ponderosa Terrace Estates.
9 It's nothing to do with the landowners. What they
10 do is the pipe, like I said, is four and a half feet
11 down, the valve is down there. Now when they want
12 to bring water to their home, they have to get a
13 backhoe or some people have done it by hand and they
14 dig down to that valve, and the valve has a female
15 connection on it and they just screw a piece of pipe
16 into there and run it to their home. Some people
17 have elected just to come out of that female
18 connection and come up with a frost free. Some of
19 them have elected to come out of that female
20 connection and just come out with a galvanized pipe
21 with a faucet on it. Well if that water is not
22 turned off in the winter, what happens to that
23 faucet and that galvanized pipe? Same problem
24 again.
25 Q. Does the Company have any regulations
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HEDRICK COURT REPORTING COBOTT (Com)
P.O. BOX 578, BOISE, ID Ponderosa
1 or requirements about what you can put on that?
2 A. I would like -- I would like if
3 they're going to put a galvanized pipe with a
4 faucet, then they have to -- it's their
5 responsibility to make sure that when they leave,
6 that that faucet is turned off. A lot of the
7 landowners don't want to go to the expense of
8 putting underground pipe to their facility where
9 there's a trailer or whatever.
10 Q. But it seems to me to say -- it's
11 inconsistent to say on the one hand you are not to
12 touch our Company-owned valve to turn off your
13 water, and on the other hand say it's the property
14 owner's responsibility to make sure that there's not
15 water going to that galvanized pipe, because isn't
16 the only way to prevent that to actually turn the
17 water off at the Company valve?
18 A. Absolutely. That's why I said it's
19 their responsibility to tell us to turn it off.
20 Q. I missed that part. I thought you
21 were saying it was their responsibility to turn it
22 off?
23 A. No. It's their responsibility,
24 because we don't know when they're going to leave.
25 We don't know when they're going to come. It's
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HEDRICK COURT REPORTING COBOTT (Com)
P.O. BOX 578, BOISE, ID Ponderosa
1 their responsibility to let us know this
2 information.
3 Q. Is there any way practical and not too
4 costly way of securing the Company's valves so that
5 people can't tamper with it?
6 MR. FAIRFAX: Can I answer?
7 COMMISSIONER SMITH: No. Your turn's
8 next, so if Mr. Cobott doesn't know, he can answer.
9 THE WITNESS: Not that I'm aware of,
10 no. The only way that is any way secured is if they
11 put in a frost-free. That way when the frost-free
12 is turned off, the system is drained and they don't
13 have a problem. And then they wouldn't have to pay
14 for the $10 on or off because the frost-free would
15 take care of the situation.
16 Q. BY COMMISSIONER SMITH: So it would be
17 their choice to make the investment or pay the
18 Company to do the turnoff?
19 A. Right. And I think Larry puts in
20 those frost-frees for, I'm not exactly sure, but
21 probably between somewhere between 60 and $100
22 apiece. I'm not really sure. I shouldn't say that,
23 because I'm not sure.
24 Q. Okay. I can appreciate that it was
25 probably a great shock to you to find out that you
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HEDRICK COURT REPORTING COBOTT (Com)
P.O. BOX 578, BOISE, ID Ponderosa
1 were actually operating an investor-owned,
2 State-regulated, public utility?
3 A. Yeah, like I said, I never -- never in
4 all my years, and I've had this system since '86,
5 had never heard of the PUC.
6 Q. Well, I can just advise you that you
7 are not alone in having this experience. So I guess
8 in that spirit, when you mentioned your turnoff fee
9 of $50 each way because if you price it high, that
10 will provide an incentive for people to comply, they
11 won't --
12 A. Absolutely.
13 Q. The function of the Commission when we
14 look at what rates we should set is not to act as a
15 deterrent to certain behavior or as a punishment,
16 but as a means for achieving what I think you said
17 earlier you wanted, and that is the Company being
18 allowed to recover its legitimate and reasonable
19 costs of operation plus a reasonable return. So, as
20 far as setting a rate for the purpose of deterring
21 behavior, that's probably not what the Commission is
22 about; and the costs we -- the rates we set need to
23 be related in some way to the costs that are
24 incurred by the Company.
25 A. This $50 on and off would not be part
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HEDRICK COURT REPORTING COBOTT (Com)
P.O. BOX 578, BOISE, ID Ponderosa
1 of the rates. For the customers that don't get
2 themselves in that situation, there would be no cost
3 to them.
4 Q. Well, there's one other key piece of
5 the public utilities law and that is that a
6 regulated company may only charge what the
7 Commission has approved in your tariffs. So if it's
8 not in your tariff, it can't be legally charged, so
9 that's the other intention of the rule we need to
10 get with you.
11 Thank you very much.
12 COMMISSIONER KJELLANDER: Commissioner
13 Hansen.
14
15 EXAMINATION
16
17 BY COMMISSIONER HANSEN:
18 Q. I just had one question:
19 You, I believe in -- and I don't
20 recall which person's testimony it was, but stated
21 that you were gone a couple months in the winter --
22 January, February -- and I'm sure at that time if
23 that's true, that Larry probably handled any
24 complaints. And I guess just to clarify in my mind
25 today, I thought I heard you say that now he wasn't
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HEDRICK COURT REPORTING COBOTT (Com)
P.O. BOX 578, BOISE, ID Ponderosa
1 going to be on call seven 24s anymore. And I guess
2 my question would be if you're out of town or you're
3 gone and if I did understand that correctly that
4 Larry isn't the person that's going to handle
5 complaints 24 hours a day, who would handle a
6 complaint when you're not there?
7 A. The -- there has been times that I've
8 been out of town, and when I leave town I call Larry
9 and tell him I'm going and give him my phone
10 numbers. And if he has a problem and he has to have
11 money for parts or whatever, he'll call me, and I
12 will get the money to him.
13 If Larry elects not to continue with
14 the water system, you're correct that I'd have to
15 get somebody else to help me with the system. I'm
16 not sure what will happen there yet. That's why
17 he's here today. He's trying to get this resolved
18 just as much as I am. It's very convenient for him
19 to work with the water system. He lives on the
20 property. He lives on a -- an acreage parcel
21 adjacent to the Ponderosa. He's not part of the
22 Ponderosa, but he lives just a few hundred feet
23 away. And it would be in the best interest to have
24 him work for the Company.
25 I've talked to other people that --
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HEDRICK COURT REPORTING COBOTT (Com)
P.O. BOX 578, BOISE, ID Ponderosa
1 electricians and plumbers, and, see, he does all of
2 this, but I've talked to these other people and they
3 charge you a service charge to come out, so much an
4 hour, they charge you retail price on all the
5 fixtures or whatever they use.
6 The way we do it is if Larry needs
7 parts and it's an emergency type thing, he'll either
8 go get the parts himself or send his wife into town
9 to get them. A lot of times he will foot the money
10 himself. For example, if I'm not readily available,
11 he will call me up and say, Hey, I need 90 bucks or
12 I need $200 or whatever the case may be to get these
13 parts to fix this problem, and then he goes and gets
14 it, and then I wire him the money or whatever the
15 situation I'm put in. And that's what happens.
16 Q. So you're looking at continuing that
17 now?
18 A. I would like to continue this
19 relationship very much and I think Larry would too.
20 Q. Okay.
21 COMMISSIONER KJELLANDER: Thank you,
22 Commissioner Hansen.
23 Mr. Cobott, to accommodate your right
24 for redirect, is there any additional comments you'd
25 like to make at this point?
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HEDRICK COURT REPORTING COBOTT (Com)
P.O. BOX 578, BOISE, ID Ponderosa
1 THE WITNESS: I don't believe so.
2 COMMISSIONER KJELLANDER: Thank you.
3 We appreciate your testimony.
4 (The witness left the stand.)
5 COMMISSIONER KJELLANDER: I think at
6 this point we're -- is everybody fine as far as
7 break's concerned?
8 MR. PETERSON: Is there any chance of
9 me getting my two bits in before I have to go?
10 COMMISSIONER KJELLANDER: What time
11 did you have to leave?
12 MR. PETERSON: Well, soon. You've got
13 six o'clock coming up.
14 COMMISSIONER KJELLANDER: I'll tell
15 you what, this is an appropriate time to do that, so
16 we'll go off the record for purposes of the
17 technical hearing and we'll allow you to come up for
18 the public hearing piece of the puzzle today, and
19 why don't we just have you move on up and we can
20 have Ms. Nordstrom begin to ask you questions after
21 Commissioner Smith has sworn you in.
22 And, again, just a reminder that this
23 is an opportunity to provide a statement, not to
24 question either the Commission or any of the parties
25 to the case.
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HEDRICK COURT REPORTING COBOTT (Com)
P.O. BOX 578, BOISE, ID Ponderosa
1 MR. PETERSON: And I'll try not to be
2 repetitious.
3 COMMISSIONER KJELLANDER: Thank you.
4 MR. PETERSON: Do you want to swear me
5 in or not?
6
7 LYLE PETERSON,
8 appearing as a public witness, being first duly
9 sworn, was examined and testified as follows:
10
11 EXAMINATION
12
13 BY MS. NORDSTROM:
14 Q. Good afternoon.
15 A. Okay.
16 Q. Please state your name and spell your
17 last name for the record.
18 A. Lyle A. Peterson, P-E-T-E-R-S-O-N.
19 Q. And what is your mailing address?
20 A. Mailing address is 932 East Marine
21 View Drive in Everett, Washington, 98201.
22 Q. Are you a customer of the Ponderosa
23 Terrace Estates Water Company?
24 A. I'm a customer and a property owner up
25 there, Block 3, Lots 11 and 12.
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HEDRICK COURT REPORTING PETERSON
P.O. BOX 578, BOISE, ID Public
1 Q. Thank you. Please proceed with your
2 testimony.
3 A. Okay.
4 THE WITNESS: I -- I've listened to
5 the conversation here this afternoon and I realize
6 you have a rate dispute going on here, but I have
7 information that I think that might be interesting,
8 and that is when this system was started in '72, the
9 capital investment was, as I understand it, was paid
10 through the property sales, the lot sales, and at
11 that time each property owner was expected to pay a
12 certain fee to the Water Company. So I think right
13 now that your Staff has it backwards as to what
14 the -- how the fees should be set.
15 I think that the 87 lots that are
16 platted in this subdivision should bear the cost of
17 the basic the word is "improvements," the capital
18 improvements, and that the 30 -- and I see you've
19 added 10 part-timers, of which I would be one -- the
20 30 should pay the cost of the -- more of the cost of
21 the testing, the power, and the things that actually
22 apply to delivering them, delivering the water; that
23 the lot basis should be used for the basic like new
24 well, cost of the new well, for instance, and that
25 part of it. So that spreads your cost, your basic
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HEDRICK COURT REPORTING PETERSON
P.O. BOX 578, BOISE, ID Public
1 cost, over 87 lots; and then 30 would pay the, like
2 I said, the other, the electrical, power, and
3 testing, and that kind of stuff.
4 And I think one of the aspects of that
5 that makes it apparent that should be the case is
6 that currently in this subdivision, there are at
7 least 20 pieces of property there according to
8 Bonner County that the taxes are being paid by
9 Mr. Cobott or his family. That's 20 out of the 87,
10 which is approximately 25 percent. And if you
11 spread the basic costs into all those lots, then he
12 shares the burden with those that use the water.
13 And I also agree with Mr. Cobaer (sic)
14 that the water meters are appropriate. And probably
15 the national average for use of water per household
16 is about 200 gallons a day, 6,000 a month. Well, if
17 you kick that up to 75 for a basic amount in the
18 subdivision there and then you charge additional
19 money if it was used -- if more than 75 -- 7,500 per
20 month were used, and that money could go for -- go
21 in escrow for additional well capacity.
22 Let me think. Oh, okay.
23 Mr. Favor that testified here earlier,
24 he's says he's got 11 people on the system. If he's
25 average, he's going to use about 440 gallons a day.
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HEDRICK COURT REPORTING PETERSON
P.O. BOX 578, BOISE, ID Public
1 That's double what the average for a household is,
2 so, you know, it -- if you put a meter in there,
3 then he pays for the additional part. And it sounds
4 like he's being conservative, and 40 is on the low
5 end of what the national use per person would be in
6 a household, which was 40 gallons her day.
7 The plat I have that is with my
8 deeded -- with the two lots my wife and I have up
9 there deeded -- says that the water system shall
10 conform -- this is certified by Bonner County -- the
11 water system should conform to the laws of the State
12 of Idaho. It says that they are required to furnish
13 me water; unfortunately, it doesn't say how much I
14 have to pay for it. But there's no restrictions on
15 any of the -- on any of the information I have, my
16 title insurance and other things, indicating that my
17 three-quarters of an acre up there is well
18 restricted.
19 Mr. Cobaer (sic) wants an extra 680
20 bucks a month for his work or because he's the
21 owner/operator. Maybe that's -- you know, I don't
22 know what that means exactly except that when I
23 translate that into 87 customers, that means they're
24 going to pay $8 apiece for that extra $680 a month.
25 When I look at the water systems that
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HEDRICK COURT REPORTING PETERSON
P.O. BOX 578, BOISE, ID Public
1 your Staff looked at, it looks like -- and he says
2 he's not interested in other water systems; I'm not
3 either, but as far as what they're paying for about
4 7,500 gallons a month, it's somewhere in the
5 neighborhood of 15 to $20. Your rate has kicked it
6 up to 56.50. His rate originally was 60.
7 I did an analysis of the water rate
8 that was started that I have a copy of that he sent
9 to me in 1992 which is when we bought the property,
10 ten years ago, and the rate at that time was a
11 certain rate. I ran the numbers on that and if I
12 run -- if I run -- I was on a basic numbers up at
13 a -- at a inflation rate of six and a half percent.
14 I get a rate of about $20 a month for 87 lots, plus
15 another 13.50 or $14 for the other 30 full-time,
16 part-time IPUC definition.
17 I'm not sure if I can remember
18 everything I had to say. Oh, I do want to say one
19 thing:
20 They've discussed this situation and
21 it's been my understanding since we bought the
22 property that we should turn -- have Larry turn the
23 valves off in the street, and we've done that and I
24 paid him a fee every year for turning it on and
25 turning it off. She mentioned a one-shot deal on on
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HEDRICK COURT REPORTING PETERSON
P.O. BOX 578, BOISE, ID Public
1 or off. I say go on and off, because I think
2 whoever does that will be more interested in turning
3 it on if he gets paid at that time or next spring or
4 whatever. So a fee on and off looks good to me.
5 And as far as my dealings with
6 Mr. Fairfax, I've tried to be straight with him and
7 I think he's been straight with me, and I've had
8 quite a few dealings with him; however, today is the
9 first time I met Mr. Cobott. I have not seen him
10 before and we've owned the property ten years,
11 although we are part-time.
12 Last year, we spent approximately
13 three weeks there on the property and if I -- it
14 seems outrageous to have to pay $60 a month for one
15 of those properties when you're there such a short
16 time.
17 But I'm interested in the water system
18 surviving and I don't think it's going to survive
19 the way it is now at 56.50 a month; I agree with
20 Mr. Favor on that. And I hope that you can come to
21 some agreement as to what's reasonable, but I think
22 the spread on the 87 lots is a basis that should be
23 adopted based on the history of that piece of
24 property, Ponderosa Terrace Estates.
25 I think that's it.
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HEDRICK COURT REPORTING PETERSON
P.O. BOX 578, BOISE, ID Public
1 COMMISSIONER KJELLANDER: Thank you,
2 Mr. Peterson. Why don't we see if we have some
3 questions on cross-examination. We'll begin --
4 THE WITNESS: Sure.
5 COMMISSIONER KJELLANDER: -- with
6 Ms. Nordstrom.
7 MS. NORDSTROM: Thank you.
8
9 CROSS-EXAMINATION
10
11 BY MS. NORDSTROM:
12 Q. I was interested in your testimony
13 about having a flat fee for each of the lots, and
14 then an additional fee for part-time and full-time
15 customers who actually use the system.
16 A. Uh-huh.
17 Q. And I was wondering if you had an
18 opportunity to review Michael Fuss's testimony that
19 he filed in this case?
20 A. I've read it.
21 Q. Okay. Because --
22 A. Probably don't remember it.
23 Q. That's okay. It was long.
24 But his Staff Option No. 2, which is
25 described further in Exhibit No. 112, I think kind
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HEDRICK COURT REPORTING PETERSON (X)
P.O. BOX 578, BOISE, ID Public
1 of adopts what you're suggesting.
2 A. I think you're right.
3 Q. Is what you had in mind like a flat
4 fee per lot of like $25 a month, and then for those
5 that actually are part-time or full-time customers,
6 an additional fee on top of that?
7 A. Right. Based on the numbers that I
8 ran on it, it looks like the flat ought to be about
9 20 bucks and then the other maybe up to 35. My
10 actual number was 33 and a half.
11 Q. Okay. Well --
12 A. For the part-time and full-time.
13 Q. Yeah, Mr. Fuss's numbers --
14 A. And I don't necessarily like that as a
15 part-timer because I don't use -- I don't use my
16 6,000 gallons a month over the year because it's --
17 the pipes are shut down for at least six months and
18 maybe last month -- or, last year it was 11 months,
19 so, you know.
20 Q. Well, those numbers are in the
21 ballpark of what Mr. Fuss was recommending, so I'm
22 glad you brought it up.
23 A. Okay. I didn't -- I should have
24 mentioned it earlier and I didn't. I mentioned the
25 water meters and I agree that they ought to be
203
HEDRICK COURT REPORTING PETERSON (X)
P.O. BOX 578, BOISE, ID Public
1 installed. I checked the water meter prices in the
2 Everett area. For a water meter that attaches to a
3 three-quarter-inch pipe, it's $50. For one that's
4 one inch, it's $120. Now, as I understand it, the
5 current code out there is for one-inch pipe, but I
6 know there's going to be a lot of places that don't
7 have one inch but I don't know if that means you
8 have to change it if you put in a water meter or
9 whatever.
10 The Everett City Water Department says
11 that the most they spend on an average meter
12 installation is three hours. They have a guy for
13 three hours and that's max, and lots of times it's
14 an hour, hour and a half. So if we -- if we hire
15 somebody that, you know, that's halfway close and
16 comes in for an hour and spends an hour, say two
17 hours, you've got three hours max on it; if you're
18 paying 60 bucks for three hours' work, that's 60
19 plus the max on the one-inch is 120. That's $180 a
20 meter. And I would recommend a one-shot cost to the
21 property owner for that installation. And, you
22 know, maybe that's -- maybe it's different here, but
23 that's what the info I get out of the City of
24 Everett and that area.
25 COMMISSIONER KJELLANDER: Are there
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HEDRICK COURT REPORTING PETERSON (X)
P.O. BOX 578, BOISE, ID Public
1 further questions?
2 Q. BY MS. NORDSTROM: When you got that
3 quote from the City of Everett regarding meters that
4 cost about $60 or --
5 A. I didn't get the cost of the meters
6 from the City of Everett. I called a supply house
7 in Marysville, washington.
8 Q. Now, did that include the meter
9 setters and the meter boxes as well?
10 A. It included the meter box. They use a
11 plastic box of some kind and I'm not that familiar
12 with it, and some fittings, you know, but I'm sure
13 that it wouldn't include all of the miscellaneous
14 little whatever you need to, you know, to connect it
15 into the pipes, so I'm sure there would be a little
16 additional situation there.
17 I estimated that, like I said, I said
18 60 bucks for the labor and 120 for a one-inch meter,
19 that's 180. I said 300 bucks max, one-shot deal,
20 and everybody would be better off because that --
21 there's not unlimited water there on Ponderosa.
22 And Mr. Cobott talks about abuse, and
23 I don't know whether it's abuse, use, or leakage,
24 and if we put meters in there, that will help tell
25 the tale there. But I do know that in that area
205
HEDRICK COURT REPORTING PETERSON (X)
P.O. BOX 578, BOISE, ID Public
1 where we are there's a lot of sand and gravel and
2 you could run water on it forever and you will never
3 find it. It just percolates down, so --
4 Q. Thank you.
5 A. -- I don't know.
6 MS. NORDSTROM: I have no further
7 questions.
8 COMMISSIONER KJELLANDER: Thank you.
9 Mr. Cobott.
10
11 CROSS-EXAMINATION
12
13 BY MR. COBOTT:
14 Q. Okay, first of all, the water system
15 started in 1969.
16 A. But the wells were drilled in '72.
17 Q. They started out with a -- with a
18 surface -- it wasn't a surface well but it was a --
19 it wasn't the well that's there now.
20 A. I didn't know that. I just saw the
21 log on the well that was drilled in '72 and I assume
22 it's the one that's still there.
23 Q. They had a tank.
24 A. It was nice to know they did start it
25 in '69 when they sold the property.
206
HEDRICK COURT REPORTING PETERSON (X)
P.O. BOX 578, BOISE, ID Public
1 Q. Yeah. Referring to 87 lots, there is
2 87 counting -- there's 82 lots and then there's some
3 parcels that make it up to 87, but there's a lot of
4 these lots that are what we call system removed
5 already, people that have never been on the water
6 system, don't want to be on the water system, and
7 there's lots of people that are living up there now
8 and have put in their own wells and are not on the
9 water system.
10 I own 17 lots, not 20. I own a lot of
11 parcels around the area.
12 A. Well, Bonner County tax records for
13 last year showed that you or your family owned 20
14 lots.
15 Q. No, it's 17. I just paid it the other
16 day.
17 A. I'm not just saying you and your wife,
18 but Bernie Reynolds, there's some familiar kids, I
19 don't know, other people.
20 Q. Well, yeah, there's some nephews and
21 stuff up there.
22 A. They're related to you there. I just
23 stated your family. It's not a big deal anyway.
24 Q. Right. The 200 gallons per day, I've
25 heard that before from some landowners and -- but if
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HEDRICK COURT REPORTING PETERSON (X)
P.O. BOX 578, BOISE, ID Public
1 you calculate how much usage we're going through,
2 especially in the wintertime even at 8- or 9,000 for
3 20 people, you're talking a lot more than 200
4 gallons a day.
5 A. I want to talk -- I did remember that.
6 Q. Well you had it down here 200 gallons
7 per day.
8 A. Yeah, I have that down, but Mike over
9 there told me that you showed it at the pumphouse
10 you ran 50,000 gallons a day through there, through
11 your form.
12 Q. No, the most it's been is 36,000.
13 THE WITNESS: You didn't tell me you
14 had a day at 50,000?
15 MR. FUSS: Right.
16 THE WITNESS: You did tell me.
17 MR. FUSS: Yes.
18 Q. BY MR. COBOTT: We don't have record
19 of it.
20 A. Well, that 50,000 a day, that means he
21 had to have the two tanks full and pumping just
22 about everything he could pump with the well, with
23 the pump, so I don't know.
24 But anyway, what I was going to say
25 was 50,000 gallons a day should be enough. If I use
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HEDRICK COURT REPORTING PETERSON (X)
P.O. BOX 578, BOISE, ID Public
1 200 as a benchmark, that should be enough for 250
2 properties. If I use 250, that should be enough for
3 200 properties. If I use 10,000 -- I don't know.
4 It's --
5 Q. I agree with you and that's been my
6 contention all along. Where's all this water going?
7 A. Well I can tell you where some of it
8 went: Two years ago when they built the Gramble
9 house down on Silver Reef, Avista Power or Avista --
10 Q. I'm aware of that.
11 A. -- Avista, their contractors, came in,
12 ran power down there, and in the mean time they cut
13 your line, which means I had no -- had no water for
14 a couple of days. And Larry was out on another job
15 and I called down there. They -- Avista people had
16 to go down to Larry's house to get the key to turn
17 off the valve to keep the water from your reservoirs
18 going out, down Silver Reef, and if you got -- I
19 don't know what that line is. As I understand it,
20 that system has got four-, five-, and six-inch
21 lines. If that's a six-inch line, you can dump so
22 much water there so fast that your pumps can't keep
23 up with it coming out of the tanks so they'd be dry
24 in no time at all. But, however, they did shut it
25 off, so I don't know how much water went.
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1 They told me that they have a
2 situation and with the utility companies, they have
3 an association that they pay so much and then they
4 mark out the lines where they are and if they hit
5 something, then they're responsible; but they said
6 with Ponderosa Terrace Estates Water System there is
7 no such thing, and the deal is that you are
8 responsible if they break any of your line, you're
9 responsible for the repair. That's what Avista told
10 me.
11 Q. That's pretty much the way it went.
12 They didn't send out a locator. They just went
13 ahead and started digging and they broke our line.
14 They would not pay for it.
15 A. That's what they said. They said by
16 law they didn't have to. And if you're going to
17 buck Avista, good luck.
18 Anyway, like I said, Larry -- I called
19 Larry and so they knew about it, and they turned the
20 water off so we had no water. And Larry came in
21 that night and he'd been working and needed some
22 parts. Well, he couldn't get the parts until the
23 next morning, so that means he had to run into town
24 the next morning. And he took care of the thing as
25 soon as he could, but if somebody is not there to
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HEDRICK COURT REPORTING PETERSON (X)
P.O. BOX 578, BOISE, ID Public
1 turn off those valves, you know, you can dump water
2 so fast it will make your head swim, and you can't
3 tell where it's going because it's -- that sand and
4 gravel eats it up.
5 HEARING OFFICER: Mr. Cobott, any
6 additional questions?
7 MR. COBOTT: Yes.
8 Q. BY MR. COBOTT: Getting -- getting to
9 the expenses of the water system over the past few
10 years, DEQ has made the Water Company come up to
11 Federal standards?
12 A. Uh-huh, I understand it.
13 Q. And that's where a lot of this expense
14 has come from.
15 A. Yeah.
16 Q. Isn't something that I wanted to do.
17 I didn't want to spend all this money.
18 A. Oh, I'm sure of that.
19 Q. Right. The meter case and meters that
20 we have been affiliated with run somewhere about
21 $100 for the meter and the meter case.
22 A. That's in the neighborhood. I said
23 120 for the one-inch.
24 Q. Okay. That's about all I have to say
25 in questions at this moment.
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1 COMMISSIONER KJELLANDER: Thank you.
2 Are there questions from members of
3 the Commission? None.
4 Mr. Peterson, thank you for your
5 testimony today.
6 THE WITNESS: Thank you. I appreciate
7 that.
8 (The witness left the stand.)
9 COMMISSIONER KJELLANDER: And we will
10 move away now from the brief interlude we had with
11 public testimony and go back on the record now for
12 the technical hearing, and we're ready for
13 Mr. Cobott's last witness, and that would be
14 Mr. Fairfax. And if we could get the deputy
15 attorney general to get Mr. Fairfax on the record
16 and we can proceed in the same fashion after he has
17 been sworn in.
18 So, Mr. Fairfax, Commissioner Smith
19 will swear you in.
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HEDRICK COURT REPORTING PETERSON (X)
P.O. BOX 578, BOISE, ID Public
1 LARRY FAIRFAX,
2 produced as a witness at the instance of Ponderosa
3 Terrace Estates Water System, Inc., being first duly
4 sworn, was examined and testified as follows:
5
6 EXAMINATION
7
8 BY MS. NORDSTROM:
9 Q. Please state your name and spell your
10 last name for the record.
11 A. Larry Fairfax, F-A-I-R-F-A-X.
12 Q. By whom are you employed and in what
13 capacity?
14 A. I work for the Ponderosa Terrace
15 Estates Small Water System, and I'm a certified
16 operator.
17 Q. Are you the same Larry Fairfax that
18 prepared three pages of information for the
19 Commission on June 18th or thereabouts?
20 A. Yes, I am.
21 Q. Do you have any corrections or changes
22 to the information you have provided the Commission?
23 A. No.
24 Q. If I were to ask you if the
25 information or numbers contained on these three
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P.O. BOX 578, BOISE, ID Ponderosa
1 pages had changed since the time that you created
2 it, would your answers be the same today?
3 A. Correct.
4 MS. NORDSTROM: I would move that the
5 information filed by Larry Fairfax be spread upon
6 the record as if read, and that's all.
7 COMMISSIONER KJELLANDER: Thank you.
8 And without objection, we would spread the testimony
9 across the record as if read.
10 (The following prefiled testimony
11 of Mr. Fairfax is spread upon the record.)
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