20040929Vol I Prehearing Conference.pdf

BEFORE THE IDAHO PUBLIC UTILITI ~~t)~t;~r4~S1ftN: 31
IN THE MATTER .OF THE APPLICATION OF
EAGLE WATER COMPANY , INC. TO AMEND
ITS CERTIFICATE OF PUBLIC
CONVENIENCE AND NECESSITY NO. 278
, "
U Ii L i
r I
i~~~~~~ IlJN
) EAG- W -04 - 2
) PREHEARING
) CONFERENCE
HEARING BEFORE
COMMISSIONER MARSHA H. SMITH (Presiding)
COMMISSIONER , PAUL KJELLANDER
PLACE:. Commission Hearing Room
472 West Washington Street
Boise, Idaho
DA TE :September 22 , 2004
VOLUME I - Pages 1 - 85
POST OFFICE BOX 578
BOISE, IDAHO 83701
208-336-9208
COURT REPORTING
cfelwf" tk edfKlNfQfl'! $.fee 1978
For the Staff:LI SA NORDSTROM Esq.
Deputy At torney General
472 West WashingtonBoise, Idaho 83702
For Eagle Water:RICHARDSON & 0' LEARY
by MOLLY O'LEARY, Esq.99 East State Street
Eagle , Idaho 83616
For Uni ted Water:McDEVI TT & MI LLER , LLP
by DEAN J. MILLER , Esq.
420 West Bannock StreetBoise, Idaho 83702
For the Ci ty of Eagle:MOORE SMI TH, BUXTON
& TURCKE, CHARTERED
by BRUCE M. SMITH , Esq.
225 North Ninth Street,
Boise Idaho 83702
Suite 420
For the Parrs:BRAD M. PURDY , Esq.
At torney at Law
2019 North Seventeenth Street
Bo i s e , Idaho 8 3 7 0 2
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APPEARANCES
83701
I N D E X
WITNESS EXAMINATION BY PAGE
Gregory P. Wyatt
(United Water)
Mr. Miller (Direct)
Commissioner Kj ellander
Robert V. DeShazo, Jr.
(Eagle Water)
Ms. 0 Leary (Direct)
Mr. Miller (Cross)Ms. Nordstrom (Cross)
Commissioner Smith
Ms. 0' Leary (Redirect)
Commissioner Smi
Rick Sterling
(Staff)Ms. Nordstrom (Direct)Ms. 0' Leary (Cross)
Mr. Miller (Cross)
Commissioner Kj ellander
Commissioner Smith
NUMBER PAGE
For United Water:
101.9 / 11 / 2 0 0 3 Map 0 5 11 - 3
(Retained separately, due to size)Mar ked
Admi t ted
For Eagle Water:
1 .9/21/04 Letter, Rees to DeShazo, 2 pgs Marked Admitted
2 .Photographs , 14 pgs Marked
Admitted
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INDEX
EXHIBITS
BOISE, IDAHO, WEDNESDAY , SEPTEMBER 22 , 2004 , 9:39 A.
Good mornlng, ladies andCOMMISSIONER SMITH:
gentlemen.This is the time and place set for a prehearing
conference in Case No. EAG-04-It's further identified as
In the matter of the Application of Eagle Water Company, Ine.
to amend its Certificate of Public Convenience and Necessity
No.78.
My name is Marsha Smith; I'm one of the three
Public Utility Commissioners, and I'm the Chairman of today'
hearing.On my left is President Paul Kj ellander, who is the
President of the Public Utilities Commission.And we need to
excuse today our third Commissioner , Commissioner Dennis
Hansen , who had business in Southern Idaho
- -
or, Southeastern
Idaho - - that could not be rescheduled.So, you get the two of
us today.
I'd like to begin , first of all, with the
appearances of the part ies , and we'll start wi th Eagle Water.
I am Molly 0 Leary, and I amMS. 0' LEARY:
appearlng today on behalf of Eagle Water.
And with me is Mr. Robert DeShazo.He is
president of Eagle Water.
Thank you.COMMISSIONER SMITH:
Mr. Miller.
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Thank you, Madam Chairman.MR. MILLER:Dean J.
Miller on behalf of United Water Idaho.
Also with me is the vice president of United
Water , Mr. Greg Wyatt.
Okay.Weleome to theCOMMISSIONER SMITH:
Commission.
Thank you.MR. MILLER:
COMMISSIONER SMITH:Mr. Purdy.
Thank you, Madam Chair.Brad Purdy,MR . PURDY:
appearing on behalf of William and Ellene Parr.
And seated to my right is Ellene.
COMMISSIONER SMITH:Thank you.
And for the Ci ty of Eagle.
MR. SMITH:Madam Chairman , Bruce Smith , on
behal f of the Ci ty of Eagle.Thank you.
Thank you.COMMISSIONER SMITH:
And, finally, the Commission Staff.
I am Lisa Nordstrom , DeputyMS. NORDS TROM :
Attorney General, appearing today for the Commission Staff.
And seated with me at the table is Rick Sterling,
Staff englneer.
Okay.I believe those areCOMMISSIONER SMITH:
all the parties in this matter.
The reason for today' s prehearing I think are a
couple, and they re outlined in the Commission's Notice.
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First of all , we want to have a clear
understanding of the issues that the parties feel that the
Commission needs to address.
Second, we want to take oral argument on whether
it's necessary to commenee a proceeding to alloeate the
presently unallocated service area that is adj acent to I think
both Eagle Water and Uni ted Water's current serving areas.
Three, determine the nature of the cost data that
the Commission would need in order to make an informed Decision
about how to alloeate those areas.
Four , to assess the abili ty of both companies to
provide the serviee, I think, in terms of the aetual provision
of the service and in terms of giving good customer serVlee;
and then to discuss an appropriate schedule if such case lS
going to be held to do so.
I think what's not on that list are the rather
think urgent needs of some persons for immediate water service
and how those people and businesses are going to get water
serviee.
Is there anyone else who believes that there are
other lssues I have not mentioned?
All right.Well , the Chair would take
suggestions on how you think the best way to proeeed.I notiee
tha t there are several maps and I think maps are going to be
cri tical in understanding the issues and the appropriate
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resolution of this case.So if anyone has suggestions about
how - - you know, of course, the Commission always likes the
suggestion that we should adjourn for a time and the
Commissioners leave and the parties will just work it out among
themselves , and when you've got all the right answers we'll
come back and say, Gee, that sounds great.But if that's not
going to happen , then we need a plan.
Mr. Miller, is that a look of "I have an idea"?
Thank you, Madam Chairman.ThereMR. MILLER:
are, of course, two general eategories of issues, I think.The
first are the parcels where persons have requested service and
apparently some of them desire service in the near future, and
the second category are larger uncertified areas in the general
vicini ty.
Wi th respect to the first category, that is,
those who have requested serviee, as the Commission knows
United initially did not oppose Eagle's Application and only
sought to intervene after the Staff comments indicated that the
Commission might be wise to take a larger look at who is more
capable of serving.So with respect to that group, United'
role I think is simply to provide the Commission information
regarding its facilities near the requesting parties' locations
and its ability to serve.And the Commission ean then weigh
that in connection with evidence of other parties willing to
serve, ability to serve, and United would abide by the
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Commission's direction as to who is better able to serve.
Wi th respect to the second category, the
uncertified areas, I think it's argued that that can proceed at
a more leisurely pace.Al though it's in our view that that
issue should be resolved for the benefit of both the persons
living in the area and the companies, there frankly isn't the
urgency wi th respect to that, to those areas.So whether the
Commission addresses that in a separate proceeding or by
expanding the scope of this proceeding is in the Commission'
discretion, I think.But , as indicated, we've provided the
Commission with maps showing the areas that are in question,
and I think it would be appropriate for the Commission to, on
some schedule, take up the allocation of those terri tories
That's our point of Vlew.
COMMISSIONER SMITH:And do you see that the
Decision on the parcels where service has been requested
immediately would have impact on the Decision of how to serve
the - - how to allocate the unalloeated areas?
MR. MILLER:I really don't believe it would.
Let me check with my client.
(Discussion off the record.
MR. MILLER:The only potential implication would
be I think in the area of quali ty of service.But in terms of
location of facilities, I don't think it's one impaets the
other.
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COMMISSIONER SMITH:Thank you.
Ms. 0' Leary, any thoughts?
MS. 0' LEARY:Yes.We - - Eagle Water - - as you
know, submitted its Application to amend its Certificate baek
in May of this year , and with its Application , Eagle Water
submitted letters from the customers who were specifically
asking for service from Eagle Water, and that was
Mrs. Troutner , Dorthy McKay, and Nancy Howe; Naney Howe
representing the Dry Creek Cemetary, and Ms. McKay representing
not only her own interests but that of I believe it's the
Northwest Bible - - the chureh that is to be constructed on
property owned by Ms. McKay.
Eagle Water is ready, willing, and able to serve
these customers, and as demonstrated by an Exhibi t 2 , Eagle
Water's Application that was submitted in May, they have a
letter from the engineer indicating that they have adequate
water supply to serve these additional customers.
Eagle Water believes that it is imperative that
the customers' request for service from Eagle Water be honored
by the Commission without further delay.
Eagle Water further does not believe its
Application to expand its service area to these customers
the proper forum for deciding broader poliey matters regarding
water serviee to the Eagle area for following reasons:
These eustomers have been kept waiting for more
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than three months and should not be required to wait any
longer.
These customers will be served by the
- -
will not
be served by the booster pump line that services Eagle Springs
subdivision , and that is the line that experieneed a temporary
reduction in water pressure this summer due to a third-party' s
interference wi th Eagle Water's service ine, thus these
customers' request for service from Eagle Water should not have
been held up for the past three months because Eagle Water'
ability to serve these customers is totally unrelated to the
temporary water pressure issues that oecurred in the Eagle
Springs subdivision.
In addition , Eagle Water has not had a rate
increase in two decades.Geneva Trent, who is here today, is
currently in the process of preparing the necessary finaneial
data to file a rate case, and Eagle Water anticipates filing
its rate case sometime next month.
Until Eagle Water I s rates are brought in line
wi th its current cost, including significant increases in its
power cost due to recent Idaho Power rate increases, we believe
it would be patently unfair to judge Eagle Water's future
ability to serve additional customers in the Eagle area against
its current financial condition.For instance, until Eagle
Water's rates are brought into line with its operating costs,
Eagle Water cannot obtain the necessary financing to bring a
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new well on-line, but it has done all other -- taken all other
necessary steps to acquire the rights to that well.
Eagle Water is a small, locally-owned and
operated utility.It is ready, willing, and able to compete
with United Water for customers on water quality and serVlee
quality, but it cannot compete dollar for dollar in investment
capital with a multinational corporation such as United Water,
nor should it be required to, and it especially cannot compete
when its rates are two decades out of date.
The people of Eagle look to this Commission to
protect their interest, that's the public interest, and the
public interest is best served by the exereise of eonsumer
choiee.If the Commission acts prematurely in the allocation
of the service area before Eagle Water's rates are brought into
line with its cost of operations, then it could very well deny
these consumers an opportuni ty for choice by ereating an even
more lopsided playing field than already exists by virtue of
the disproportionate seale of the two companies.
And in closing, Eagle Water would just like to
say that it is more than willing to partieipate in a serVlce
allocation proceeding, whether that's informally discussions
with United Water to see if we can reach agreement without
having to take up the Commission's time, or ln a formal
proeeeding before this Commission if that's what the Commission
believes is necessary, but it requests that that action be
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taken after its rate increase is improved
- -
approved, not
improved.
Thank you.
Ms. 0' Leary, youCOMMISSIONER SMITH:Sure.
weren't somehow implying that it was the Commission's faul t
that Eagle Water's rates are two decades out of date?
No, no, not at all, but that's justMS. 0' LEARY:
the fact of life.That is the reality that Eagle Water
faced wi th and is prepared - - I'm trying to make the point that
Eagle Water has taken the steps to get its rates in line , has
hired Mrs. Trent to work on that, and is prepared not to
some distant time in the future but in the very near future
file a rate case to address this problem that it finds has
hampered its abilities.
COMMISSIONER SMITH:Which is something they
could have done anytime in the last 20 years?
Given the information , yes.MS. 0' LEARY:
COMMISSIONER SMITH:Okay.Thank you.So we had
the public interest mentioned.
m sorry, Commissioner Kj ellander.
Have we already movedCOMMISSIONER KJELLANDER:
to oral argument?
COMMISSIONER SMITH:No, we're just talking.
COMMISSIONER KJELLANDER:Because those sounded
like statements for oral argument, so I had a question.
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COMMISSIONER SMITH:You can ask her a question.
COMMISSIONER KJELLANDER:All right.
I just had one quick question about the immediate
needs because you did touch on that briefly in your opening
statement, and was curious to the extent that you know wi
regards to existing facilities how long would it take you to
get service to those customers that presently have a request?
MS. 0' LEARY:Let me confer with Mr. DeShazo
because I know it would not take much time at all, but I can
get a more precise answer if I could just visit with him for a
minute.
(Discussion off the record.
MS. 0' LEARY:Three weeks.
COMMISSIONER KJELLANDER:Thank you.
COMMISSIONER SMITH:Okay.The interests of the
people of the Ci ty of Eagle was mentioned.I wondered,
Mr. Smith, do you have any thoughts on process?
MR. SMITH:Yes, Madam Chair.Wi th regard to the
Applieation by Eagle Water, that was not what caught the City
of Eagle's attention.It was the Staff's direetion that the
uncertificated areas be allocated that necessitated the
Petition for intervention.
The City's view is that is a matter that requires
some degree of cooperation and consul tation among the parties,
both the utilities as well as the City of Eagle, and it would
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not be the most effieient or prudent forum to undertake - - or
this particular proceeding would not be the best forum in which
to undertake those discussions.I think there's a degree of
informality that would help that process, and so our view is if
you're going to deal with Eagle Water's Petition , that's fine.
The allocation I think should be separated from this and we
have an informal proceeding to discuss those.
Nevertheless, if it's the Commission's choiee to
deal with that in this proceeding, we can do that as well , but
it just - - there's related but enough separate issues, I think
we should be doing it informally.
COMMISSIONER SMITH:So you have no opinion on
the Application of Eagle Water for the precise area in this
Certificate?
MR. SMITH:Tha t 's correet.I would say this,
that Mr. Purdy did call me, and the City has indicated an
interest in talking to the Parrs about their particular
situation.I don't know if the City can neeessarily address
, but the City is cognizant of that problem right now and has
indicated a willingness to sit down with them and discuss that.
COMMISSIONER SMITH:Mr. Purdy.
MR . PURDY:Thank you, Madam Chair.
As Mr. Smi th alluded to, yeah , f rankl y, the Parrs
have been shopping for a water utility.We've contaeted Eagle
Water , as well as Uni ted Water.
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The Parrs own roughly two acres of undeveloped
property on Shields Street, and we can - - we've already looked
at the maps and we can look at them further if necessary, but
it's a relatively small area , an existing subdivision
sandwiched between the Uni ted Water and Eagle Water serVlce
terri tories.It's somewhat unique from these other outlining,
uncertificated areas in that sense because it'
- -
it is so
close in proximi ty to the already-existing serVlee terri tories.
The nature of the neighborhood is kind of mixed.
It's starting to change as the area changes out there.
Frankly, there are some rather antiquated mobile home parks,
but there's also starting to pop up some newer homes and
townhouses and that sort of thing.The Parrs want to take
advantage of what they see as a good opportuni ty to develop an
area and change the character of the neighborhood.
They don't have a pos i t ion, by the way, wi
respect to Eagle Water's Application to serve that area up near
State and - - or , rather, Hill Road and Highway 55.They onl y
beeame interested in this case when the Staff submitted its
comments saying perhaps we should take a look at all these
other uncertificated areas.
The Parrs ' property is currently served by a
well.The problem is that that well lacks sufficient capacity
and water quality to serve the development that they wish to
construct, and, in fact, they recently diseovered some lead,
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high concentrations of lead in their water.And, in addition
the groundwater in that area we suspect is in a state of
decline as new wells are constructed in the area.So for them
realistically to develop their property, they need utility
servlce.
They have previously approached both United Water
and Eagle Water , and for whatever reason were given the
impression that neither utility was interested in serving them
because they were in the
- -
they were not in anyone's service
territory.Whether that impression was accurate or not, I
guess I can't say for sure.m getting mixed signals today.
But it seems, to me, that we could work out something wi
respect to the Parr property fairly quickly, and whether that'
done through thi s proceeding or some other proceeding I don't
think is all that important.The Parrs would rather not,
frankly, wait until after Eagle Water's rate case is finished.
It seems that their neighborhood is of , you know, such a nature
that we could probably come to some kind of an agreement wi
one of the utilities, and that's our hope.
COMMISSIONER SMITH:Thank you.
Ms. Nordstrom.
MS. NORDSTROM:Thank you.
Staff has been contacted on several occaSlons
regarding the need of Northwest Bible Church to begin or
continue building on its property and its need for water
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service.Staff believes that a quick resolution on their
particular -- well , the five lots that are requested in this
Application needs to happen in a timely manner.
Staff also believes that a larger allocation of
uncertificated areas is appropriate, given the rapid growth and
the issues regarding water quality and the declining ability of
wells in that area to serve the growth necessi tates a larger
allocation of uncertificated areas.
Staff also believes that the allocation of the
five lots in -- requested by this Application could assist in
the allocation of uncertificated serviee areas on a larger
scale as well , and that that should be kept in mind.
Other than that , Staff intends to keep an open
mind and listen to the information presented by the other
parties about their ability to serve and what ideas other
parties may have on the best way to do that.
Is the Staff opposing theCOMMISSIONER SMITH:
Application of Eagle Water with regard to the church and the
five lots?
As the Commission is aware, StaffMS. NORDSTROM:
initially did oppose the Application made by Eagle Water for
these particular five lots, and we stand by that position
unless presented with information to the contrary about the
service quality issues and customer service issues in general.
We've received considerable number of complaints this summer ln
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that area, and we have some coneerns about alloeating
additional parcels to Eagle Water unless those issues are
addressed.
COMMISSIONER SMITH:Commissioner Kj ellander.
COMMISSIONER KJELLANDER:Ms. Nordstrom, earlier
the Counsel for Eagle Water had referenced that some of the
difficul ties that had been experienced were due to, one, a
third party s interference wi th a water source, and then a
separate water source that wouldn't necessarily be connected
with the service of the five customers in question today on the
immediate needs list.
Of the complaints we have, have they been broken
down wi th regard to the water sources and the interference that
were brought up by Counsel for Eagle Water?Could they be is,
I think , more appropriately the question.
MS. NORDSTROM:My client advises me that the
area in which we received the complaints is in the vicini ty of
the pareels , that they are all interconnected, and that some
these issues have an affect on the parcels in question; but,
you know, it's a variety of factors and not solely the aetions
of the third party that are causing the problems.
COMMISSIONER SMITH:Mr. Miller.
MR. MILLER:If I might just make a brief reply
to the comments of the other parties:
With respeet to the requester eategory, those who
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are requesting service, we have informally provided the
Commission wi th maps that show the loeation of Uni ted'
facilities and are certainly willing to, in whatever way the
Commission desires, if the Commission does desire to weigh the
abi 1 i ty of ut i 1 it ies to serve, to present that in an
appropriate way so that it's properly before you.
With respect to the broader uncertified areas,
it's not really apparent to me why we need to wai t for the end
of rate cases setting retail rates to make determinations about
ability to serve and the location of utilities in respect to
the uncertified areas.Certainly most of the investment to
serve those areas is going to be contributed property anyway,
rather than ratepayer- funded.
I do agree with Mr. Smith that consultation is a
appropriate way to try and address this.I think though that
it would be much better to do that in the context of a
proceeding where the parties could receive guidance from the
Commission as necessary.So either in this case or ln some
other case, it's our recommendation that the issue be addressed
with perhaps a direction from the Commission for the parties to
engage in some negotiations within the context of the ease.
Wi th respeet to the Parr property and Mr. Purdy
client, it's my understanding that United has main line
facilities that are approximately 900 feet from the Parr
property, and that service could be extended under Uni ted'
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maln line extension rules which would provide for a $500
allowance from the Company toward the construction of the maln.
Under United's rules as they exist, the responsibility for the
rest of the investment would be on the requesting customer.
COMMISSIONER SMITH:Doesn't sound like $500
would go very far in 900 feet.
MR. MILLER:I don't believe it would, but that'
what the rules are at the present time.
COMMISSIONER SMITH:Thank you.
We'll be at ease for a few moments.
(Discussion off the record.
COMMISSIONER SMITH:All right, let's go baek on
the record now.
It seems to the Commission that we need to do two
things here, and first of all lS we need to immediately address
the ehurch , the five lots for whieh the Application has been
made earlier this year.And if the parties are prepared to do
that today, we're prepared to sit here and listen and get all
the information we need to decide that.
And the second thing I think we would ike to do
is open a case for the purpose of allocating the other unserved
terri tory that is adj acent to the Uni ted and Eagle Water
serving areas in the Eagle area, and this doesn't preclude
having informal workshop sessions wi th or wi thout the
Commissioners or informal negotiations, and, in faet, I think
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that would be our preferred solution.
I think what having a formal Commission ease does
is it gives parties a sense of some time pressure so that you
don't allow it to languish for months, because we will be
asking, Aren't you done yet?
And I think the other thing it does is if you
have parties that become recalci trant or don't want to provide
information, you have the resources of the Commission to get
Discovery and get information that might be necessary to
formulate your proposed solutions.
Wi th regard to the Parrs, it seems, to us, that
they do kind of fall in the issue of who should serve their
presently-uncertificated area, and once you decide who serves
the Parrs, that might decide their whole neighborhoods.But we
would hope that there could be rather soon some of those
informal discussions, and perhaps it will become immediately
apparent who should serve that area of the Parrs and they can
be split off, certified to the right company, and receive
servlce without undue delay.
Tha t 's the proposal.m open to other
suggestions or tweaks that might improve that, but I think
that's the way we'd like to proceed.
I guess my only question is are the parties ready
to go forward today with the information we would need about
the five lots, the church, that are the subj ect of the
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Application by Eagle Water?
Mr. Miller.
MR. MI LLER :I f we could have a brief recess,
we'd be prepared to call Mr. Wyatt as a witness, have him
introduce the maps and create a record on Uni ted'
capabilities.
COMMISSIONER SMITH:All right.So what we'd
need are where are your facilities, how much would it cost , and
how soon could you get there.
MR. MILLER:Right.
COMMISSIONER SMITH:And, Mr. Purdy, did you have
a comment?
MR . PURDY:m sorry.No.
COMMISSIONER SMITH:You looked very thought ful
Ms. 0' Leary.
MS. 0' LEARY:Yes.I think wi th a brief reeess
, as well , would be able to take the information that is here
today and provide some basic information.Of course, not able
to anticipate all of the Commissioners' questions, I think
we can make a good effort to
COMMISSIONER SMITH:Well, I think our questions
are where are your facilities, are they adequate to serve these
areas, how much would it cost, and what would it cost the
customer, and how soon could you do it.
MS. 0' LEARY:I think we're ready to respond to
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all of that.
And I think Mr. DeShazo alsoCOMMISSIONER SMITH:
ought to also be prepared for questions concerning the customer
service issues that seem to arise periodically with regard to
hi s uti 1 it y, because I think that is a cons idera t ion for the
Commission.
Staff.
If you would
- -
you know , we'MS. NORDS TROM :
more than willing to, you know , have Mr. Sterling testify
the Commission would like him to regarding Staff's position
but we don't have any formal information to present at this
time.
Well , and I assume that youCOMMISSIONER SMITH:
would probably be listening to the utility information and
deciding whether your previous judgments were accurate or ln
error.
MS. NORDSTROM:Or whether they should be revised
based on new information.
, that's a niee way to sayCOMMISSIONER SMITH:
it.
Mr. Smith, any comments?
Madam Chair, wi th regard to theMR. SMITH:
unallocated area , lS it the Commission's intent to bifurcate
and start a separate proceeding?
COMMISSIONER SMITH:We don't want toYes.Yes.
HEDRICK COURT REPORTING
O. BOX 578, BOISE , ID
COLLOQUY
83701
mess up this Certificate Application with a new , broader lssue,
so we'd start a new case.
MR. SMITH:Okay.Thank you.
COMMI S S lONER SMI TH :And would that be consistent
with the interests of the City?
MR. SMITH:m not golng to eommi t to that at
this point.
COMMISSIONER SMITH:If you know.
MR. SMITH:As I indicated, we are certainly
willing to sit down with these parties and discuss those
lssues.Whether the formality of another proceeding
necessary, I still am inclined to say, No.
Is it inconsistent with the City's interest?
don't know that either.
So if it's the Commission's pleasure to initiate
that, we will partieipate.
COMMISSIONER SMITH:Thank you.
And, Mr. Purdy, did you have any misgivings about
where your elients got fit in this process?
MR . PURDY:Wha t ?m sorry.
COMMISSIONER KJELLANDER:Did you have any
misgivings about where your clients got slotted in this
process?
MR . PURDY:No, but just for clarification , if
understood you correctly, Madam Chair, you suggested that the
HEDRICK COURT REPORTING
O. BOX 578, BOISE , ID
COLLOQUY
83701
Parrs' situation is somewhat unlque and that perhaps it could
be addressed sooner rather than later?
COMMISSIONER SMITH:Yes.
Through an informal process?MR . PURDY:
Yes , that would be our hope.COMMISSIONER SMITH:
Ours as well.MR . PURDY:
That it wouldn't have toCOMMISSIONER SMITH:
wait until some big conclusion of everything; that people could
start there , maybe finding the right answer, an Application
could be filed, and the Commission could approve it.
That's acceptable to us.MR . PURDY:
Thank you.COMMISSIONER SMITH:
That clarified myCOMMISSIONER KJELLANDER:
question as well.
All right.Le t 's take --COMMISSIONER SMITH:
how much do you need, 15?
Fifteen would be fine.MR. MILLER:
Let's see if we can comeCOMMISSIONER SMITH:
back at 10: 30.
(Recess.
All right, we'll go baek onCOMMISSIONER SMITH:
the record.
I think the parties have indicated they're now
prepared to assist the Commission by providing information on
their facilities and costs for the area whieh is the subject of
HEDRICK COURT REPORTING
O. BOX 578, BOISE, ID
COLLOQUY
83701
Eagle Water's present Certificate Application, and I believe
we'll start , Mr. Miller , wi th Uni ted Water.
Thank you, Madam Chairman.UnitedMR. MILLER:
would call Gregory Wyatt.
GREGORY P. WYATT
produced as a wi tness at the instanee of Uni ted Water , being
first duly sworn , was examined and testified as follows:
DIRECT EXAMINATION
BY MR.MILLER:
please?
m the viee president and general manager of
Sir , would you state your name for the record,
My name is Gregory P. Wyatt, W-
And your occupation?
Uni ted Water Idaho.
In front of you is a map which we will mark as
Exhibi t A.It hasn't been marked yet, but we will mark it and
I will refer to it as Exhibit
Let's call it Exhibi t 101.COMMISSIONER SMITH:
We'll refer to it as Exhibit 101.BY MR. MILLER:
(United Water Exhibit No. 101 was marked
for identification.
HEDRICK COURT REPORTING
P. O. BOX 578, BOISE , ID
WYATT (Di)
United Water83701
BY MR. MILLER:Mr. Wyatt, was Exhibit 101
prepared under your direction?
Yes, it was.
To the best of your knowledge, does Exhibit 101
eorreetly depict eertain matters in the area of Ada County
that's under diseussion today?
Yes, it does.There's one minor adj ustment
the map that I would make but I don't believe it has
significant bearing, but just for accuracy's sake, intellectual
honesty would eause me to make one adjustment to it.
And what would that be?
North of the eanal , there is a stub line shown as
a two- inch PE serviee, and that is not a PE service, it is a
net relief valve.
Could I ask you to go to the map now and indicate
for the Commission the properties that are the subj ect of this
diseussion?
Certainly.I m not sure how I do thi s on the
reeord microphone wise, but --
COMMISSIONER SMITH:She will just take down what
you say.
THE WITNESS:Okay.
COMMISSIONER SMITH:Speak up.
THE WITNESS:In order to try to be visual about
this, this would be Horseshoe Bend Road running north and
HEDRI CK COURT REPORTING
P. O. BOX 578 , BOISE , ID 83701
WYATT (Di)
United Water
south , and Hill Road runs roughly east and west down here.
This being the canal I referenced.
The five parcels, as I understand them, are these
two pareels that are owned, I believe, by the Troutners.
This parcel in here and I believe the parcel here
are owned by the McKays.
COMMISSIONER SMITH:Those are south of the
canal.
THE WITNESS:South of the canal.
And this parcel is what has been referred to as
the property the church is seeking to build on.
And then there's another parcel up here that
encompasses the cemetary.
COMMISSIONER SMITH:That I S north of the eanal.
THE WITNESS:That's north of the canal.
So those are the parcels in this matter that I'
aware of.
BY MR. MI LLER :Is United currently providing
service to any nearby parcels?
Yes , United is.There's a property at the
intersection of Horseshoe Bend and Hill Road on the northeast
eorner whieh already has and has received service from Uni ted
Water's 16 - ineh main that bounds that area through a service
line into that property, and they're receiving service today.
Also with reference to Exhibit 101 , could you
HEDRI CK COURT REPORTING
O. BOX 578 , BOISE, ID
WYATT (Di)
United Water83701
indicate for the Commission the location of United Water's main
line facilities in the region?
Certainly.There is a 16 - ineh transmission and
distribution main on the east side of Horseshoe Bend Road that
runs north and south , and it receives its source of supply from
wells to the west, and that line then turns east on Hill Road
and continues on out Hill Road.That's the facili ties we have
along the way.There's some val ving, there's air reI ief
valves , there's service ines
There's also an existing 12 - inch stub line comlng
off of the Hill Road line to the north into what was believed
to be and most likely would be an access road for the church
property, which is one of the parcels in discussion.
Right.So the United Water main line facilities
front each of the properties that are in question, with the
exception of the one that could be served by the 12-inch stub
line?
That's correct.United Water's facilities are on
the east side of the road and frontage exists on the Troutner
properties, both of those, as well as the - - what has been
called the church property.
It's my understanding that the McKays, who own
the property which maybe we can call that a land-locked
property for referencing because it does not front on either
Hill Road or on Horseshoe Bend Road , but it's my understanding
HEDRI CK COURT REPORTING
O. BOX 578, BOISE , ID
WYATT (Di)
United Water83701
they own both of those parcels, so an easement or aceess could
easily be obtained by them through their own property to access
the water ine on Hi 11 Road.
Is there anything, before you take your seat, is
there anything else on the map that the Commission should be
aware of?
Certainly, access to the cemetery could be
obtained through a service line tap on the 16-inch north of the
canal.That service is available to the cemetery property from
that 16-inch maln.From the facilities that we currently have
in place , the 16-inch main has adequate pressure, adequate
flow , and adequate water quality to provide continuing proper
serviee to any of these customers or all of them.
I think that's all the questions I had with
respect to the map.Thank you.You can take your seat agaln.
Under Uni ted Water I s existing rules and
regulations, what would the cost to eaeh of these eustomers be
for United to connect to their parcels?
For those parcels which front
- -
which have
frontage on the existing mains, service taps would be at no
cost to the customer.United Water's rules and regulations
provide that Uni ted Water would bear the cost of the serviee
line taps, meter box setting, meter , and so on to provide
service at, quote/unquote, the curb line or the property line.
It would then be the customer's responsibility to install
HEDRI CK COURT REPORTING
P. O. BOX 578, BOISE, ID
WYATT (Di)
United Water83701
their
- -
what we call their customer side serVlce to serve
their facility.
With regard to the MeKay property and the chureh
property, as I said, it really depends on how those property
holders wish to configure water supply into their areas.
United Water has not been the recipient of the application for
servlce , so I don't have access to detailed maps from that
owner as to exactly how they would prefer serviee to be
rendered to them.But I would say that service is available at
the main , and if they were to desire meter settings and serviee
lines just off of the main , they would be at no cost to the
customer.
And other than the serviee ines and meters, are
you aware of any other investment Uni ted would need to make on
its own to provide service to these properties?
, I'm not aware of any other investment that
Uni ted would need to make.
If the Commission were to determine that the best
interest of these customers indicated that they should
served by United Water , how long would it take United Water to
make the necessary connections and begin providing service?
To the Troutner properties and to the church
property, which already have frontage, and then also to the
McKay property, depending upon the way that they would want
service provided, assuming those are simply service t"aps on the
HEDRICK COURT REPORTING
P. O. BOX 578 , BOISE , ID
WYATT (Di)
United Water83701
existing maln , those could be scheduled and accomplished within
the time frame necessary for obtaining road permits and Digline
mark-outs and regularly scheduled, and we would be inside of
would say two weeks, three weeks tops.
We would have to
- -
if I could just finish, after
the eustomer' s designation of location and once the property
from the customer's standpoint is prepared to receive the
service line, that's when we would be able to serve within that
time frame.We need to have the customer tell us where , along
the main , they want the service line to exist.
This is sort of an unusual question, but since we
haven't had a lot of opportunity for preparation, eould I just
ask is there anything else that the Commission should know that
you're aware of in connection with this question?
The only thing that I would offer again is the
lssue related to quality of service.We have not received any
water quality complaints in that vicinity.
The eustomer located on the interseeting corner
of Hill Road and Horseshoe Bend Road recently requested serviee
from United Water and obtained service from United Water , and
we've had no comments or complaints from that customer.
Very good.
MR. MILLER:I believe that's all my questions
Madam Chairman.
COMMISSIONER SMITH:Thank you, Mr. Miller.
HEDRICK COURT REPORTING
P. O. BOX 578, BOISE, ID
WYATT (Di)
Uni ted Water83701
Ms. Nordstrom , do you have any questions?
MS. NORDSTROM:None at this time.
COMMISSIONER SMITH:Okay.
Mr. Smith, do you have any questions?
No, Madam Chair.Thank you.MR. SMITH:
COMMISSIONER SMITH:Ms. 0 Leary.
MS. 0' LEARY:We do not have any questions for
Mr. Wyatt.
COMMISSIONER SMITH:Commissioner Kj ellander.
COMMISSIONER KJELLANDER:Jus t one.
EXAMINATION
COMMI S S lONER KJELLANDER:
Based on what you know of those parcels
- -
know that water is always an interesting issue in the state of
Idaho - - I'm just curious as to what you see as the ability to
actually serve them wi th the quanti ties of water they need.
The reason I ask is wi th the cemetery, I'm curious how it I s
gone this long wi thout somehow being connected to a water
system , and if you understand what their needs are, what about
the ability to actually serve with the quantities of water that
they may be requesting?
And that's a very good question.m not
intimately familiar with what quantities of water the cemetery
HEDRI CK COURT REPORTINGP. O. BOX 578, BOISE , ID
WYATT (Com)
United Water83701
would be requesting.I have some peripheral information , I
would call it, just general knowledge, that they do
- -
that the
cemetery does have irrigation water available for a large
portion of its cemetery area.You know , I would, subj ect
check , I would offer that I believe the cemetery s request for
serviee is simply for relatively domestic service needs.
Regarding the availability of water supply in the
16 - inch maln and through there, I will tell you that that is a
supply line which we use to fill our Hidden Hollow Reservoir
so we have ample supply for even if the cemetary did wish to
use public water supply for its irrigation purposes, I would
believe that we would have sufficient quantities.
Okay.Thank you.
Any redirect, Mr. Miller?COMMISSIONER SMITH:
Thank you, Madam Chairman.MR. MILLER:No.
Thank you for your help,COMMISSIONER SMITH:
Mr. Wyatt.
Certainly.THE WITNESS:
(The wi tness left the stand.
Okay.Ms. 0' Leary.COMMISSIONER SMITH:
Eagle Water would like to callMS. 0' LEARY:
Mr. Robert V. DeShazo, Junior, to the stand.
HEDRICK COURT REPORTING
P. O. BOX 578, BOISE , ID
WYATT (Com)
United Water83701
ROBERT V. DeSHAZO, JUNIOR,
produced as a witness at the instance of Eagle Water , being
first duly sworn , was examined and testified as follows:
DIRECT EXAMINATION
BY MS. 0' LEARY:
Mr. DeShazo, would you please state your full
name for the record?
Robert V. DeShazo, Junior.
Thank you.And could you tell us, please, what
your oecupation is?
At present, I serve as president of Eagle Water
Company.
Thank you.Have you had a chanee to look at what
has been identified as Exhibit 101 today?
Yes, that is correct.Yes , I have.
Does that map appear to be a eorrect
representation of the subj ect area that is
- -
of the area that
is the subj ect of Eagle Water's Application?
Yes, it does.
Okay.Could you please go to the map, as
Mr. Wyatt did before you, and deseribe for the Commission the
location of Eagle Water's facilities to serve the properties
that are the subject of its Application?
HEDRI CK COURT REPORTING
P. O. BOX 578, BOISE , ID
DeSHAZO (Di)
Eagle Water83701
Sure.
Eagle Water Company's line is also on the east
side of Old Horseshoe Bend Highway.
Robert, you might want to stand a little bit
behind the map so you're not blocking it.
We're also on the east side of Old Highway 55,
and we have a 12-inch main line that runs right in here to the
entry to Bonita Hills.We have an eight-inch main that runs
all the way on down to the corner of State and Horseshoe Bend
Road.
The service, basically, we are servicing at the
present Dry Creek Cemetery is a national cemetery that 1 s
there , is an Application we put in I think this last spring,
early spring there.We had, in the Application, it was
mentioned that I think the Commission came back and asked if we
were asking for the whole cemetery.We really at that point
didn't have an Application requesting that, and it's kind of
sad because it should have been done at that time, because all
they basically need is a stub for future fire protection
basically what they're after.
The cemetery presently serves off of wells and
they do have pressure irrigation off the irrigation diteh here,
and the national cemetery required they have buildings in there
that required fire hydrant and fire flows and those items, so
we completed this thing.And when we were there, we did put a
HEDRI CK COURT REPORTING
O. BOX 578, BOISE , ID
DeSHAZO (Di)
Eagle Water83701
stub out in an area down here for the Dry Creek Cemetery in the
future , and the reason we did it is beeause the road has been
completely redone and restructured and repaved and we would
have had to tear that up again , and I didn t think that was
sui table to do that and espeeially right across from the entry
to the cemetary of the national thing, and so we put the stub
in.
Mr. DeShazo, can I just clarify, when you say the
national cemetery do you mean the veterans' eemetary?
Well , it's a veterans' eemetery, but it is
considered a national cemetery.
Thank you.
The Troutner property right here, we obtained
- -
Mrs.Troutner is in the process of selling the property
and don't know whether it'happened.talked to the
real tor and felt it was going to close anytime.It might
have already been closed.But we had asked for an easement to
run from here , down along the canal and eome into the McKay
property, and that's the way we were golng to serviee both of
her properties and the McKay property, and that's where we'
at at this point.
Okay.So you have adequate facilities to service
the eurrent substation?
Well , we had a fire flow test on this hydrant
yes , we have.Of course, the line is always being fed from the
HEDRI CK COURT REPORTING
O. BOX 578 , BOISE , ID 83701
DeSHAZO (Di)
Eagle Water
basie system which is the downtown or lower areas.There are
control valves that are installed up here to let the booster
line be a completely separate line comlng off the pump to
supply water to this subdivision.There's valves here and
there's valves in the canal , and then valves down.So we can
ei ther booster that section into it or bring it off the seetion
coming up the Horseshoe Bend Highway.
But it's your testimony that the subj ect property
would not necessarily be served with this booster line that was
the supply line for the Bonita Hills or the Eagle Springs
subdivision that was the subj ect of the complaints this
summer?
That was my testimony.
Okay.Under your existing rules and regulations
for Eagle Water , do you know what the approximate cost would be
for these properties?Do you want to go back to your
Thank you.
Thank you.
The approximate cost for the Troutner property
would be between 800 and 1 200 dollars.
The McKay property, from what I've seen from the
plans and stuff , it included some fire hydrants and some fire
flows and this sort of lines, so it's a little bit different
servlce lines, and just a loose estimate would be between 24 to
000.
HEDRI CK COURT REPORTING
O. BOX 578 , BOISE , ID
DeSHAZO (Di)
Eagle Water83701
The stub out to the cemetery is around 1 500 to
600 dollars.
And would service to these properties require any
other investment by Eagle Water?
Not that I ean think of at the present.
Okay.And once the
- -
well, the request has
already been made, but assuming that the Commission would
approve your Application to amend your Certificate
- -
Eagle
Water's Certificate
- -
to serve these properties , can you gl
the Commission an estimate of how long it would take to provide
service?
We did that earlier and I said three weeks, but
should have maybe clarified that.That's after we get DEQ' s
permission to proceed, and that's been a real stiekler to try
and do timing on and getting things to proj ects.
Now, when you say it's been a stickler , that'
not unique to Eagle Water, is it?
I don't have any experlence with anybody else.
know that we've had some problems wi th them , yes.
And the problem that you're alluding to I think
at this point perhaps is the complaint that was lodged
regarding the bag maker property?
Well , I wasn't alluding to that, but now that you
brought it up, yes, that has been a real problem , al though
I will say as of yesterday we are able to start construetion.
HEDRI CK COURT REPORTINGP. O. BOX 578, BOISE , ID
DeSHAZO (Di)
Eagle Water83701
We got our permission Friday.Materials were delivered.We'
down there working on the proj ect now , so maybe that'
something that's in
- -
by the past.
Okay.
I don't know if it would beMS. 0' LEARY:
appropriate at this point, but we do have a letter from Eagle
Water's engineer explaining what happened at DEQ with Eagle
Water's Application regarding that specific proj ect.
I think it would be good toCOMMISSIONER SMITH:
have that as an exhibi Why don't you start with Exhibit
No.
(Eagle Water Exhibi t No.1 was marked for
identification.
Mr. DeShazo, I'm going to handBY MS. 0' LEARY:
you what has been marked as Exhibit 102.
COMMISSIONER SMITH:No, 1.
Exhibi t And I'm going toMS. 0' LEARY:One.
hand a copy as well to Staff and United Water and to the
Commissioners, if I may approach.
Thank you.COMMISSIONER SMITH:
Thank you.COMMISSIONER KJELLANDER:
Mr. DeShazo, can you justBY MS. 0' LEARY:
briefly explain the context of this letter that was received
from your engineer yesterday?
Our engineer made Application on July 26 for the
HEDRICK COURT REPORTING
O. BOX 578, BOISE , ID
DeSHAZO (Di)
Eagle Water83701
offsi te extension to the property where the bag maker is being
done.This was after some delays of easements and this was
we had three routes to get there.The shortest route, of
course, was the one we could not accomplish.The and had
changed ownership, the owner had made a verbal agreement to
allow us to eome through it, then he wanted money up front , and
we kind of got out of that.
So I got ahold of
- -
Jim Rees is our englneer
and I said, Jim , where is this permit?
And so Jim called down there.
And basically what it's saying is they had
lost -- they said that we hadn't even made the Application.
Well , Jim went back , found it where it was
stamped and date stamped and took it back in.I think it was
rece i ved August the 25th , and
- -
is when they got it back , and
then they issued us an acceptance letter on the 14th
September.
And I - - that's just what I'm reading here and
what Jim has told me about.
So the second page of this Exhibi t 1 , which is a
letter to you from Mr. Rees, appears to be the date-stamped
page of the Application that was submitted on Eagle Water'
behalf by MTC regarding this property, and would you agree that
it is date-stamped received by the DEQ or Department of
Environment Quality on July 26th?
HEDRI CK COURT REPORTING
P. O. BOX 578, BOISE , ID
DeSHAZO (Di)
Eagle Water83701
That's correct, yes.
And yet it appears that it took another month for
the Department of Environment Quality to route that to their
technical serviees office?
I believe that what I understand from what I'
told is that the file got lost and it wasn't -- it didn't go
anywhere because it got split up into two different departments
down there.And then when Mr. Rees called, that's when they
found this out.He took it back down to them , and that's why
the other stamp is there for August 25th.
Okay.So this is what you wereThank you.
referring to when you said that Eagle Water would be able to
provide service to these customers wi thin two to three weeks
after DEQ performs its portion of the Application process?
That's right.The plan , not particularly for the
Troutner or for the cemetery, but for the
- -
or, the church
property, that is extensive enough to where it has to go
through DEQ approval.
Thank you for clarification.
Is there anything else that you think the
Commission should know regarding Eagle Water's ability to serve
these properties?
None that I can think of.
Okay.Mr. DeShazo, earlier in today' s
proceedings, there was, I believe, a question raised by
HEDRICK COURT REPORTING
P. O. BOX 578, BOISE , ID
DeSHAZO (Di)
Eagle Water83701
Commissioner Smith regarding some customer eomplaints that were
received this summer , and I would like to maybe discuss that
have you discuss that
- -
wi th the Commissioners, for the
Commissioners today.
MS. 0 I LEARY:If it's possible, I would like to
approach Mr. DeShazo wi th some photographs that were taken and
then have him explain these as we go through them.
COMMISSIONER SMITH:Certainly.
MS. 0' LEARY:
THE WITNESS:
MS. 0' LEARY:
THE WITNESS:
MS. 0' LEARY:
And --
For our booster pump up here
m going to just
Okay, go ahead.
m going to have those identified
for the record as Exhibi 2, and unfortunately, I did not bring
extra copies of those to share wi th the other parties.
(Eagle Water Exhibi t No.2 was marked for
identification.
BY MS. 0' LEARY:So, Mr. DeShazo, if you would
hold up for everyone's benefit the first picture that you have
there in that stack?
(Indieating.
And could you
that picture of?
explain for the Commissioners what
This is a picture of our main-inch 12 line (sic)
coming off of the New State Highway 55 line, and it's coming
HEDRI CK COURT REPORTING
O. BOX 578 , BOI SE , ID 83701
DeSHAZO (Di)
Eagle Water
through easement to the booster station.This will be the west
side of the proj ect.
This is
- -
the picture is on the east side of the
proj ect, and past this line is the booster station.
Mr. DeShazo, before we go onto that second
pieture, eould you please identify how that first
- -
the
caption on that first picture so we can keep these individual
pictures straight for the record?
West side of gravel pit.It says:
West side of gravel pit.
And the other one is:Pipe at east side of
gravel pi t
This easement was obtained through
- -
this is a
gravel pi t.The easement was obtained, I can't remember,
seven , eight years ago, and we at the time knew that that line
was going to have to be relocated sometime in the future.The
gravel operator notified us that it was
- -
that he was going to
have to be into this gravel bank he thought about sometime late
July or first of August.
We went out and proceeded to do another route to
route the line around prior to any -- keeping the line live,
route it around.In the mean time, there was some
miscommunication between myself , my superintendent, and the
gravel operator.
We started to dig on the route-around line whieh
HEDRICK COURT REPORTING
o. BOX 578, BOISE, ID
DeSHAZO (Di)
Eagle Water83701
would not be affeeted , it would be the permanent line, and the
overburden of the gravel pi
- -
in other words, to get to the
gravel had about 20 feet of overburden.They had a large order
come in.WhatThey started running more equipment , machinery.
basically they did, they just outran us.We couldn't keep
ahead of them.Instead of having a six-foot trench, we were
going to be digging 25 and 30-foot trench in loose soil, and
was just too risky.We decided not to do that.
And when the line got tore out is when the
problems happened up in Eagle Springs because we weren 't golng
through the booster pump.The booster pump was turned off.
So then we had to come up with another route to
do this, which it took a little time to do, and we told people
that we were going to have some problems with it.And until
this happened it was very
- -
the timing was very bad.I guess
I can take some of the blame for it.I don't know why, but
obviously have to do something.And it did cause some problems
up in Eagle Springs area and as far as their serviee ability
and pressures.
One of the problems we have in Eagle Springs, we
have a homeowners' association.They have some very large --
and I mean large
- -
common areas, which they don't have
pressure irrigation in these two subdivisions, so the soil
condi tion is that they water those things extensively.And
we've asked them during peak periods of times not to water and
HEDRICK COURT REPORTING
O. BOX 578 , BOI SE , ID
DeSHAZO (Di)
Eagle Water83701
we still don't have it.They're still watering whenever they
They didn't take the attitude or anything to water atwant to.
times we asked them not to.So they eause some of their own
problems up there.
And we did get the thing
- -
and I can't remember
the date - - we got the booster station back on I guess three
four weeks ago , I can't remember , and it seems to be working
adequately and the complaints, of eourse, have pretty much
stopped.
Okay.Mr. DeShazo, there are some other pictures
there that I handed you as part of Exhibit 2 , and I would like
to go through those one by one and just have you explain for
the Commission what those are pictures of.So could you hold
up that first picture and read the caption of that picture for
the reeord?
Can I give a little background?
Yes, but could you hold the picture up and read
the caption first?
Just a little background first:
When talking to Molly yesterday, we were
discussing pictures , and this is why these came up, per se, and
I suggested would it be advisable to take pictures of the
Complaints' properties and see what they look like.And that'
what I had sent a person out, had a digital camera, and he did
this yesterday afternoon.So that's the background.
HEDRI CK COURT REPORTING
P. O. BOX 578, BOISE , ID
DeSHAZO (Di)
Eagle Water83701
Thank you.
This shows the back yard common area of Eagle
Springs subdivision , and it's taken from the hill which ean
look down into it.
And, Mr. DeShazo, I'm going to ask you the
question in the foreground, there appears to be a very dry
What is that?area.
That is a port ion of the Dry Creek Mi 1 i tary
That's the part they're not working on qui te yet.Cemetary.
So that's not an area
- -
common area
- -
of the
subdi vi s ion?
No, it's not.
Thank you.
This next picture is common area north of
Big Springs Boulevard, and that's off the Horseshoe Bend Road.
This is one of their common areas they have , and this is just
showing the landscaping and basically the grass is green, put
it that way, I guess.
This is a house that's on Sage Hollow and it'
one of our eomplaints.This is a front yard picture of their
particular property.
Could you please identify for us the address of
that?
It's 10625 Sage Hollow.
Okay.And that would be, to your knowledge, lS
HEDRI CK COURT REPORTING
P. O. BOX 578 , BOISE , ID
DeSHAZO (Di)
Eagle Water83701
that the property of Mr. Jay Pinehen?
I don't know.I don't know.
For the record --
Could you please establish whatMS. NORDSTROM:
date these pictures were taken?
Mr. DeShazo did establish that theyMS. 0' LEARY:
were taken yesterday.
They were taken yesterdayTHE WITNESS:
afternoon.
MS. NORDSTROM:Thank you.
THE WITNESS:This is a picture at 9706 Big
Springs Boulevard and the lawn at that area.
And Big Springs is the one
- -
this particular
property is unique because it lays well elevation above the
basic town of Eagle, and I can't
- -
I don't know what the
elevation is but I know it's 3-, 4-, 500 feet difference.And
that's one of the reasons the booster pump is there, so we ean
get it boosted up, get it up to the top.Big Springs Boulevard
is the highest part that goes up there.
And here's a house that's on 9610 Big Springs and
also showing the house next door at 9856 Big Springs, and this
shows their front lawns.And those lawns do faee directly to
the south , and that is the hot hillside part there.
And the next picture that you have there?
9802 Big Springs.
HEDRICK COURT REPORTINGP. O. BOX 578, BOISE , ID
DeSHAZO (Di)
Eagle Water83701
Okay.
Also in the same area, and these are people that
did have filed complaints.
And then the next picture that you have there?
1197 Elk River.
And this al so a picture of a party who filed a
complaint with the PUC?
Yes, all these pictures, basically they are, yes.
This is 2188 Skokie.
And then we also service in this same thing we
servlce what's called the Eagle Ada Skateboard Park, which is
even higher up.It's up Old Highway 55, almost up to the
Lazy J Tavern , and it's directly across from Trail Creek
subdivision.And I had him go up there and take some pictures
of that because that's - - that is considerably - - it's off the
same ine And this is showing the north end of the skateboard
park looking northwest
- -
northeast.
And could you identify the eaption on that
picture, please, for the record?
North end of skateboard park looking northwest.
Thank you.
And this is skateboard park looking south from
the high hill.And basically it does come back in way down
here to some of the property that's in the Eagle Springs
subdivision.
HEDRI CK COURT REPORTING
O. BOX 578 , BOISE , ID
DeSHAZO (Di)
Eagle Water83701
When you said , Way down here, let the record show
that you were pointing to the left
- -
upper left side of the
picture.
Right.These houses over here are in Trai 1 Creek
subdi vi s ion.
And then you say, These houses over here, you'
referring to the houses at the top of the picture?
The ones that run along where the landscaping is.
Thank you.
Another picture of skateboard park looking at the
entrance.He's made a note on here the brown spot's caused
during maintenance of park , and I don't know what that refers
, but there's some brown spots there.
But it's your testimony that that brown spot is
not related to any sort of irrigation problem?
It's actually cireular for some reason, so there
might have been something there that I don't know of.The
summer season lS over , so they have taken in a lot of their
things they had out there for playground equipment.
This picture, it really is kind of -- it's just
showing the mud tracks in front of the common areas on Eagle
Springs thing, and I don't really think this is
- -
it could be
from weather , it could be
- -
and they do sprinkle these things
constantly.And I haven't taken a computer to figure out how
mueh area up there is actually common area versus homes.The re
HEDRI CK COURT REPORTING
P. O. BOX 578, BOISE , ID
DeSHAZO (Di)
Eagle Water83701
are some very arge areas.
So your
appears from these pictures and from your own information
testimony, Mr. DeShazo , that it
regarding your system's operations that the water pressure
problems in the Eagle Springs area have been resolved?
I believe so at this time , yes.
And during the time that there were water
pressure issues related to this pipe that was intercepted by a
third party, was the pressure
- -
are there any reeords , to your
knowledge , of Eagle Water's pressure being below the required
water pressure limit?
Not that I know of.
Now , we did put some reeorders up there
- -
didn't bring those; I didn't even think it was going to get
into this today
- -
showing some recordings in that subdivision
during certain parts of the day.I think that probably most of
those were taken after
- -
after the booster pump was
reinstalled.
We had a recorder.We found out it was
defective.By the time it got here,We ordered another one.
we had the thing pretty much fixed.But we're moni toring on a
daily basis now just so we kind of keep a feel of what
happening up there.
And was it your testimony earlier that the
property that is the subj ect of your
- -
of Eagle Water'
HEDRI CK COURT REPORTING
O. BOX 578, BOISE , ID
DeSHAZO (Di)
Eagle Water83701
current Application would not be serviced by the booster line
that services these properties that we've just seen the
pictures of?
That is correct , yes.
Thank you.Is there anything else that you would
like to bring to the Commissioners' attention?
Just as a clarify, the corner of Hill Road and
Old Horseshoe Bend Highway, those people also requested service
from Eagle Water , and I went and physically went over and
looked at their property.
She has extensive landscaping.We fel t that it
would - - we knew United Water had a line in there also.
think we had some meetings with United Water and we deeided to
let them go ahead and service it.It would be probably more to
her benefit to have it happen , would be a lot more disruptive
(sic) to her property to have it serviced by United Water than
Eagle Water, and so that I s how that eame about.
You're referring --
To the piece of property on the corner of
Hill Road and Old Highway 55.
And is it your understanding at the time that
that agreement was reached that that was not to be used as any
sort of a precedent for service of these addi tional
properties?
Absolutely.
HEDRI CK COURT REPORTING
P. O. BOX 578, BOISE , ID
DeSHAZO (Di)
Eagle Water83701
Thank you.
MS. O'LEARY:We have nothing further.
COMMISSIONER SMITH:Mr. Miller , do you have
questions?
Just a couple of clarifications, ifMR. MILLER:
I could.
CROSS - EXAMINATION
BY MR. MILLER:
As I understand it, these booster facilities
line and facilities -- are to the north of the properties in
question.Right?
Tha t 's correet, yes.They're on the other side
of the canal.
And those facilities, if Eagle were to serve,
would not be used to serve these properties?
That is correct.
Rather, the properties would be served by a well
located somewhere else?
They would be served basically, Mr. Miller, from
the basic system which is actually down by the river , loeated
in the lower areas.I t would be served as an intermix.
There's not a specific well that serves as one.They serviee
all.
HEDRI CK COURT REPORTING
O. BOX 578, BOISE, ID
DeSHAZO (X)
Eagle Water83701
Where is the elosest source of supply?
, on that map would be hard.The closest
source of supply would be off of Edgewood off of State Street.
Basically, there's a well in there.
How far away that,approximately?
Probably
- -
I 1 going just say two and a half,
three miles.don't really know.
Now understand it,Eagle Water does not
have facilities in the Hill Road right-of-way?
In that particular part, no, we don't.That'
not our area to service that point.
And if I understood your testimony correctly, for
Eagle to serve the McKay property, it was necessary to get an
easement across the Troutner property?
Ei ther that or we could also get an easement down
Dry Creek Cemetary.There's two ways to go.
Did I understand your testimony correctly that
the Troutners have refused to grant an easement?
, that's not what I said.
Do you have an easement?
It's in the transi tion of being
- -
theNo.
property - - it's like trying to say the property is being sold.
I don't know when it's closing.We're not qui te there at thi
point.
She agreed to let us do this in letter form, so
HEDRI CK COURT REPORTINGP. O. BOX 578, BOISE , ID
DeSHAZO (X)
Eagle Water83701
didn t feel that that was
- -
since we got into when we started
this thing, and then Uni ted Water is an Intervenor, we kind of
really haven't done a whole lot more than that at this point.
But as we sit here today, Eagle Water does not
have a legal access to the McKay property?
I'd say that'd probably be correct.
I was slightly confused on the discussion of DEQ
snags and this letter of September 21st from your englneer.
What property is that in connection with?
That is in conneetion with the property that the
bag maker is building a building on.
And it's unrelated to these properties,
apparently?
Apparently, yes, it's qui te a ways away, yes.
I guess I was confused then as to, frankly, what
bearing does this have on service to these parcels?
COMMISSIONER SMITH:I think it had bearing on
the fact that the Commission said that the customer service
record was one of the things we were golng to consider.
even though it's not located here and it's not related to this,
that was the issue, and I think I brought it up.
THE WITNESS:Yes.
m looking at the ApplicationBY MR. MI LLER :
that was filed on behalf of Eagle Water, and in Paragraph 4
there is a sentence that says the estimated cost for this
HEDRICK COURT REPORTINGP. O. BOX 578 , BOISE , ID
DeSHAZO (X)
Eagle Water83701
project is between 15,000 and $20,000, plus legal fees, all of
which will be paid by the developer.
Could you explain for the Commission what
activities or assets are being funded by this 15 to $20,000?
Maybe I'll start with is that still an accurate estimate?
You re referring to which Application
Mr. Miller?
The Application that was filed on May 21 , 2004.
Is that on the McKay property?
You'll have to tell me.m just reading from
the Application.
I bel ieve it was the McKay property.
Since that time, I received additional plans from
the church engineers and that's why we have a little differenee
in cost , because they have added some other things to it that
we didn't have in the first estimate.
So what is your current estimate of?
Well , there's - - to repeat it, I said between 24-
and 27 000 is what I said, basically.
And what would that be for?
That would be for main line, fire hydrants,
serviee lines.I think there was someI don't - - let's see.
irrigation in it.I don't have all of the stuff in front of me
at the present.And that was labor and material to run the
line, basically, from the Horseshoe Bend Highway to their
HEDRI CK COURT REPORTING
O. BOX 578, BOISE , ID
DeSHAZO (X)
Eagle Water83701
property, and to put it to where it was on the plans, on the
plot plan.
And approximately how many feet of maln line
eonstruetion would be involved in that?
You - - when we decided to do this thing I didn'A .
have that in front of me, so I kind of did some quick
estimates.I think it's around
- -
my figures were down there
Molly, but that doesn't do any good.
MS. 0' LEARY:May I approach the witness?
THE WITNESS:I think around 1,200 to 1,400 feet,
I bel ieve
BY MR. MI LLER :That would be roughly from where
to where?
That's from the tie-in at Horseshoe Bend Highway
to the property and on the site.
Yeah , it was around 12-, 1 300 feet, and it might
be pI us or minus.
Do you know what size of pipe would be used?
Primarily, eight- inch.
And that's for the parcel that you currently
don't have a legal access to?
Yes, it is.
Thank you very much.Those are allMR. MILLER:
my questions.
COMMISSIONER SMITH:Ms. Nordstrom , do you have
HEDRICK COURT REPORTINGP. O. BOX 578, BOISE , ID
DeSHAZO (X)
Eagle Water83701
questions?
Thank you.MS. NORDSTROM:I do.
CROSS - EXAMINATION
BY MS. NORDSTROM:
Good morning, Mr. DeShazo.Does your company
have any plans to build new facilities in the vicinity of these
five parcels in question?
Build them in the
- -
not in that area, no.
Has Eagle Water personally received complaints
from customers this summer in addition to those received by the
Public Utilities Commission?
Yes, we have.
And could you describe the nature and number of
these complaints?
I think most of the people that did complain to
us did write letters to the Commission.I don't
- -
I didn'
keep a record of what that was.Operations people had that,
primarily.That was what their - - that's what their job was.
I did talk to individual s up there.I talked
to
- -
I can't remember the names
- -
trying to explain what the
problem was, what was going on , what our time frame was and
where we're golng to be, and did this primarily before they had
homeowners' meetings so at least they had some information to
HEDRI CK COURT REPORTINGP. O. BOX 578, BOISE, ID
DeSHAZO (X)
Eagle Water83701
that extent.
One of them called me and asked me if I would
attend a homeowners' meeting, and I said I would be happy to.
They haven't had one sinee that particular time, probably will
have one this fall.I wi 11 be more than happy to go up there
and talk to them and see what their concerns are.
I know that one of our eoncerns, they have got to
get control of this irrigation water, because that is the one
key factor that's causing them some fluctuation in their
pressures.
Would it surprise you to know that the Commission
has received at least 16 complaints this summer regarding water
pressure and service issues in the vicinity of these five
parcels?
Yes, I have a list.
Could you please point out on the map where most
of these complaints came from?
Well , I can't -- I don't think we got any
complaints from the Bonita Hills subdivision , whieh is in here.
m just saYlng I don't know for sure.
Most of them were in
- -
off of Palisades,
Big Springs , the higher elevations is where we had our
problems.We didn't take all the pictures of all the
complaints because we just kind of ran out of time yesterday
afternoon.
HEDRICK COURT REPORTINGP. O. BOX 578, BOISE , ID
DeSHAZO (X)
Eagle Water83701
It's kind of interesting:Some people would have
a complaint and their neighbor wouldn't, and it's kind of hard
to judge what I s golng on in part of that
- -
part of what'
happening.
That's, basically, lS about where we've had our
complaints.It's the higher grounds up there.
Could you also point out where the gravel pi t is
on that map?
Well , it's basically -- basically, it'I can 't.
back here, come right down this road.
And where is your booster station?
And it would be over here too.
Okay.And the Eagle Springs subdivision?
Right here.
Okay.
And this is called Bonita Hills.There's two
subdivisions here.
Okay.That's all I have for the map.Thank you.
You stated that you knew that the pipe that ran
through the gravel pit would need to be relocated at some
point.Why didn't you act proacti vely to ensure that there
wouldn't be a disruption in service if you knew that there was
golng to be a problem?
I tried to explain that earlier.We have our new
yard is there, located right by the gravel pi We were
HEDRICK COURT REPORTING
P. O. BOX 578, BOISE , ID
DeSHAZO (X)
Eagle Water83701
watching what they were doing, keeping an eye on it.And I met
with the owner of the gravel pit and we deeided that we would
come up with a new route and we were proceeding to do that, and
it just
- -
the communieation was between
- -
I have to say that
one of the problems that I had here is my superintendent was
also the brother of the owner of the gravel pit , and so the
communication was pretty -- pretty open.And when we got ready
to go to work up there , they
- -
the overburden
- -
I mean , they
really just shut us off , we couldn't get through there, and
tha t 's what happened.It wasn't an issue that we weren't
trying to.We were trying to get to it and get it done.
The pictures that you showed us earlier were
apparently taken yesterday?
Yes.
When did the maj ori ty of these complaints
oceur?
I don't have the file, but they re dated over
there.Probably -- I'm sure a lot of them started within
after that booster pump went down.
What date did that booster pump go down?
I believe in - - I'm guessing.I think in late
June or July, first of July.I don't know.
So is it fair to say that the complaints
regarding water pressure and customer service issues have been
from late June through early September?
HEDRICK COURT REPORTING
P. O. BOX 578, BOISE , ID
DeSHAZO (X)
Eagle Water83701
That's correct.
One of the complaints that was reeei ved was in
regard to too high of water pressure.Could you please explain
what, if anything, you know regarding the nature of that
eomplaint?
Well , that's completely on the other , the west
end of the water eompany ' s service area, and it's off of --
there's a maj or well that's over there and that has
- -
produces around 100 pounds of psi.The people in that
particular
- -
all of them down there that built were told that
they would need pressure reducers installed on their house
system by their plumbers.It's in the State Plumbing Board
regs to do that.These particular people escaped through
the - - and I don't say the people.It would be the plumbing
contractors did not install the pressure reducer valves.And
this particular person became aware of it and became very
concerned , and that's why he filed a complaint.
And then to follow up on that , we've gone to the
State Plumbing Board and have requested to talk to them as to
why these things weren't installed, and we
- -
matter of fact , I
heard my operations manager talking to somebody from DEQ
yesterday and what we have to do, apparently, is get on our
monthly bills, is put a rubber stamp on there informing them
that they may have high pressure and they should seek
installing a pressure reducing valve.
HEDRI CK COURT REPORTING
P. O. BOX 578, BOISE , ID
DeSHAZO (X)
Eagle Water83701
Do you believe that one company should be awarded
all of the five parcels in question here, or should they be
split up since both United Water and Eagle Water apparently
have the ability to serve them?
I just made the Application because I had the
That's all I can say.request.
MS. NORDSTROM:I have no further questions.
COMMISSIONER SMITH:Thank you, Ms. Nordstrom.
Questions?I assumed he was sitting this out.
COMMISSIONER KJELLANDER:None.
EXAMINATION
BY COMMISSIONER SMITH:
I have a couple, and you're going to have to help
me understand this better.
The Applieation , by looking at it, appears to be
for five different parcels:Two located east of the Horseshoe
Bend Road and south of the canal , which we call the Troutner
parcels.
That's correct, yes.
Two additional ones that are also south of the
canal and east of the Troutner parcels that we're calling the
McKay property?
Tha t 's correct.
HEDRI CK COURT REPORTING
O. BOX 578, BOISE , ID
DeSHAZO (Com)
Eagle Water83701
And the southern-most McKay parcel is what we'
referred to as the church property?
That's right.Yes.
Okay.Now then there's another piece that's the
Dry Creek Cemetery Maintenance District, and is it north of the
canal?
Yes, it is.
And how far east does it go?It doesn't go all
the way to these
- -
this corner of this map where we see that
dot ted ine going up and down?
I think it does.I believe that is part of the
eemetery is what they're showing in there , that drawing.
Is it?Does it go east of that dottedOkay.
line?
Yes, it goes over to
- -
probably over to a bluff
there, and I don't know how their boundaries are on their east
side.
But it wasn't your intention to plaee faeilities
that far east?
What they re going to do, they're planningNo.
on this spring doing some improvements to their administrative
building.
And where is the administrative building loeated,
approximately?
m just kind of guessing now.It's located
HEDRICK COURT REPORTING
O. BOX 578, BOISE, ID
DeSHAZO (Com)
Eagle Water83701
right in here.
Well , that is qui te a ways east then.
Well , we're - - presently we're right in here wi
maln line, right in this area for the cemetery.
And that's the area you al ready serve?
Yes, it is.
Okay.Then it looks to me likeve got it.
just south of the two Troutner parcels, immediately south
fronting the road, are two unserved parcels that you re not
requesting?
That is correct, yes.
Okay.We went through all these complaints.
When was this line broken and the booster pump went down?That
was late June or early July?
Yes, I believe so, yes.
And when was it repaired?
It was either late August or early September we
had it back on-line.
So that kind of matehes the complaints?
Yep.
And is all your serVlce area metered?
Yes , it is.
So these people in Eagle Springs who are watering
this common area, they have a meter?
Tha t 's correct.
HEDRICK COURT REPORTING
O. BOX 578, BOISE, ID
DeSHAZO (Com)
Eagle Water83701
Okay.I guess , and just finally, the
- -
I guess
the thing that disturbed me the most in reading the complaints
and hearing of them was the fact that you don't return your
phone calls.So, do you want to say anything in your defense
on not returning phone calls?
I do return most of my phone calls.I do have
people that work in the office that are in operations that
ask them to please confer wi th the people and see what their
problems are and see what we can do for them.I can't, in all
honesty, I can't take and talk to everybody.
As you well know , Eagle is extremely busy,
extremely expanding.My time demands out there are pretty
pretty well wanted.
And I don't mean to be
- -
sound like I'm off
here, that's not what I meant.I try talk to people that are
going to go to the meetings and so they can at least express to
the other people in there what we're doing.Just to call and
talk to all of them is just sometimes is almost overburdening.
And we are
- -
we are doing communication wi
them.And just because They are hearing from our office.
happen to be the president doesn't mean that I can't delegate
somebody to talk to these people.And we're not avoiding them
by any means.They re our customers and we like them , and we
try to work wi th them.
Sometimes they get where you hear it and you'
HEDRICK COURT REPORTING
O. BOX 578 , BOISE , ID
DeSHAZO (Com)
Eagle Water83701
just about the worst guy in the world, and you try to tell them
you really aren't the worst , you're second to the worst or
something.
Yeah, the worst is over here.
I don't know about that.
At least that's what we're told.
No.
I guess I appreciate your comments on that, and
hope you can appreciate how difficult it is for the Commission
when the customer's main complaint is that the Company is not
responslve.So I guess if your employees could say that , I'
returning this call on behalf of Mr. DeShazo and he'
interested and concerned , but, you know, he just ean' t return
every single eall.
We have done that.
And we've also found discrepancies of
- -
that
people, they read into what something staff is telling them and
it's not correct , and I'm trying to explain to them.And I'
gone to staff and said , you know , Are you saying these things?
And, no, they're not.And so you're getting the - - I don'
know what you'd call it, the
- -
they don'
- -
they hear what
they hear , but that's not what they're hearing
- -
what they
want to hear , see.
Sometimes people don't hear what they re told.
Absolutely.Very true.
HEDRI CK COURT REPORTING
P. O. BOX 578 , BOISE, ID 83701
DeSHAZO (Com)
Eagle Water
COMMISSIONER SMITH:Do you have redirect,
Ms. 0' Leary?
REDIRECT EXAMINATION
BY MS. 0' LEARY:
I don't have anything specific unless,
Mr. DeShazo, there's anything that you wanted to say in
elosing?
I think if we're going to look at doing this
allocation , I'd ask that we not do it during this particular
time because of the time frame.So I think that maybe we'
got a little bit of breathing room where we can try to look
this thing and try to discuss it.
We're seeing some more changes comlng into the
Eagle area and different things that are happening that are
golng to have some affect on our company as well as United
Water's, and we're just trying to keep ahead of it and see
where we're going to be.
Is it your testimony and conclusion, Mr. DeShazo
that Eagle Water is ready, willing, and able to serve the
customers who requested service from Eagle Water and that their
requests are the subj eet of the Application before the
Commission today?
That is correct, yes.
HEDRI CK COURT REPORTING
O. BOX 578, BOISE , ID
DeSHAZO (Di)
Eagle Water83701
Thank you.
MS. 0' LEARY:Nothing further.
COMMISSIONER SMITH:Well, you generated another
one f rom me.
EXAMINATION
BY COMMISSIONER SMITH:
One of the parties present today represented by
Mr. Purdy were the Parrs, and do you
- -
have you formed any
opinion whatsoever on whether Eagle Water is in a position to
serve the Parrs, because they are at least one party I don'
think should wai t for months
I agree.
- -
while we sort out and look at maps and have
informal get-togethers.
I have looked at the proj ect I haven't done any
estimates.I told Mr. Purdy and Mr. Farley that I would get
down there this afternoon and get some lineal footage as to
where they are, where they're located , and where we're at, and
get them an approximate estimate of cost to it.
ve talked to Mr. Farley I think a year and a
half ago and I told him
- -
I says that one thing he had to look
at was that offsite costs are borne primarily by the developer
or the applicant that asks for it.You could go
- -
if you go
HEDRICK COURT REPORTING
P. O. BOX 578, BOISE, ID 83701
DeSHAZO (Com)
Eagle Water
through your neighborhood there and get some people in your
neighborhood to help share in that eost, it would be
advantageous to you to do that.
And somehow he got the impression that I didn'
want to do it or something, and I was trying to explain to him
that he didn't realize that he's got front-end eosts that'
golng to be - - probably make the property that he has - - it'
going to lessen the value of it.And that was the latest.
And then he called me here
- -
I think he called
Mrs. 0' Leary, and I think she called me and asked me to call
Mr. Farley.
I don't know how he got your number , but I think
that's how it went.
And so I did talk to him and I told him what
- -
rei terated the same thing to him and I did mention that, yes,
we are having - - I've got an application in front of the PUC
right now , it's being held, and I don't know what the time
frame would be.
And then we got a letter from Mr. Purdy and this
is how that's all gone from there.But I will get an estimate
right away.
So you weren't - - when you said you didn't want
the examination of the presently uncertificated areas not to
happen in this time frame, which I assume meant your rate case,
you weren't referring to this property?
HEDRICK COURT REPORTING
P. O. BOX 578, BOISE , ID
DeSHAZO (Com)
Eagle Water83701
m referring to the whole thing thatNo, no.
they want to, you know , sit down and do the whole allocation of
the whole thing.
Yeah, right.I have only one more clarification:
I don't know who Mr. Farley is.
Mr. Farley is a real estate agent representing
Mrs. - - that's --
The Parrs?
He was sitting back there.m sorry,
di dn 't
So the Parrs and the Farleys are the same?
The McCoys and the
Okay.
Anything further?Redireet?COMMISSIONER SMITH:
Nothing further.MS. 0' LEARY:
Thank you for your help,COMMISSIONER SMITH:
Mr. DeShazo.
(The wi tness left the stand.
Ms. Nordstrom.COMMISSIONER SMITH:
wi th the Commission's indulgence,MS. NORDSTROM:
Staff would like to call Rick Sterling to the stand to clarify
its position in this matter.
Thank you.COMMISSIONER SMITH:
HEDRICK COURT REPORTINGP. O. BOX 578, BOISE , ID
DeSHAZO (Com)
Eagle Water83701
RICK STERLING,
produeed as a witness at the instance of the Staff, being first
duly sworn, was examined and testified as follows:
DIRECT EXAMINATION
BY MS. NORDSTROM:
Good morning.Please state your name and spell
your last for the record.
My name is Rick Sterling, S-
By whom are you employed and in what capacity?
m employed by the Idaho Public Utilities
Commission as a staff englneer.
Did you participate in formulating the Staff
eomments filed in this docket, June 29, 2004?
Yes, I did.
And what was Staff's position at that time?
Staff opposed Eagle Water's Application to serve
the five parcels in question.
What was the rationale behind that recommendation
of denial?
Well, the primary rationale was that at the time
the Application was filed and under consideration , Eagle Water
was in the midst of its booster pump problem.The Commission
was receiving numerous complaints about low water pressure in
HEDRI CK COURT REPORTING
P. O. BOX 578, BOISE, ID
Sterling (Di)Staff83701
the Eagle Springs area primarily, which , as been pointed out on
the map, is not far from where these five parcels are loeated
and we didn't believe that -- we, being the Staff -- didn'
believe that we could support Eagle Water's Application to
servlce addi tional properties in that same vicini ty when they
were experiencing problems already with serving some of the
existing customers.
At the time that Staff filed comments, was there
a firm date on which the booster station was expected to be
baek on-line?
No, there was no firm date.The original
expectation , as related to us from Eagle Water , was that the
problem could be resolved , and my recollection was two to three
weeks.And as we have seen, it turned out to be much longer
than that before the problem got resolved.
Is this the first time that there have been a
number of complaints in this area filed with the Commission?
Two years
- -
two summers ago, we experiencedNo.
a lot of other complaints from the Eagle Springs subdivision
and al so the Boni ta Hi 11 s subdi vi s ion which is adj acent to it,
and following those complaints or approximately at the time
some of those eomplaints were coming in , Eagle Water was in the
process of adding its booster station to improve the pressure
to that portion of its system.
Based on the information that you ve heard in
HEDRI CK COURT REPORTINGP. O. BOX 578, BOISE , ID
Sterl ing (Di)Staff83701
this hearing today, does Staff have any eoncerns about awarding
service of these five parcels to Eagle Water?
Well , strictly from the standpoint of ability to
provide service, I think either company has the ability to
provide serVlce.As has been pointed out, they both have main
ines ln the vicini ty.And if Eagle Water lS not experleneing
problems similar to the problems they have had ln the past
then I fully believe they eould provide adequate service.
I think what it
- -
the question boils down to
I think there are certain parcels that may be served less
expensively by one company or another, al though I think ei ther
company could provide the service.
Customer service issues though I think are
another matter that should be considered.And I certainly
would not say that, you know , the pressure problems Eagle Water
experienced were caused by them.There's no quest ion it was
they didn't cause the problems.But they were responsible
for
- -
for making the repairs and resolving the problems, and
it did take some time to get that accomplished.
But there are bigger-picture customer serVlce
kind of issues too that I think are an issue for at least the
Staf f We've - - we have had qui te a few eomplaints about Eagle
Water Company, some which are not even specific to this
part i cuI ar area.We do get the complaints about not returning
phone calls.One of the parcels that's being considered here,
HEDRICK COURT REPORTING
P. O. BOX 578, BOISE , ID
Sterling (Di)Staff83701
the parcel that the church would be built on, I was recently
contacted by both the engineer on that proj ect and the pastor
of the church, who both expressed frustration to me that they
couldn't get phone calls returned by Eagle Water and that
they've been seeking serviee for quite some time.
So I think those are things that we took into
consideration or should be taken into consideration in
determining who serves these lots.
Have you had conversations with the customer that
owns the bag maker?
Yes, I think I've spoken to him a couple of
times.
And have they expressed concerns wi th the serVlce
that they have received?
Yes, they have.They have also expressed, you
know , frustration of the time that has been required to obtain
service.And, again, you know , it may not all be Eagle Water '
faul t that they couldn't get service as quickly as they would
like , but nevertheless, it's hard for us to determine just
exactly who might be at fault.You know , some of the fault
could have been Eagle Water's, some of it maybe wasn t, but
it's hard for us to tell.But in any case, the customers have
expressed complaints.
Are there any other long-term lssues that cause
Staff concern regarding Eagle Water?
HEDRI CK COURT REPORTING
O. BOX 578, BOISE , ID
Sterling (Di)Staff83701
Well , customer service is still a concern.You
know , I don't probably see or get involved in every complaint
that comes through the Commission , but a lot of them do find
their way to me.And for the size of Eagle Water Company, we
do have an awful lot of complaints.I probably deal wi th more
complaints for Eagle Water than I do for United Water, and
obviously United Water has many, many times more customers.
But again, you know , a lot of the complaints are triggered by
specific events that have occurred with Eagle Water, and as
ve pointed out, some of them haven't been Eagle Water'
faul t, but still , it's the response to those complaints that
sometimes has caused a problem for people.People can
understand that problems occur or things break down, but they
expect relatively quick response to those problems and
sometimes that doesn't happen.
What is Staff's position at this point on this
Application?
Well , there has been some additional information
provided today that I think has helped me to form an opinion
that maybe is a little more detailed than the opinion I had
before today.For example, I think the service to the
veterans' cemetery might be bet ter provided by Eagle Water
beeause of the facilities that they already have in plaee and
because it is adj acent to the existing Dry Creek Cemetary where
they are already providing service.
HEDRICK COURT REPORTING
P. O. BOX 578, BOISE , ID
Sterling (Di)Staff83701
The McKay properties, including the one that the
ehurch would be buil t on, I think serviee might be better
provided by United Water beeause the MeKay properties do front
Hill Road and United Water does have probably better access to
those properties and may have an easier time obtaining an
easement since the property owner requesting the service would
be the one that they 'd have to cross.
The Troutner properties I think eould go either
way, al though if I were the owner of those properties,
probably would seek service from Uni ted Water because of
would be less expensive to hook up, al though I think ei ther
company could provide the same service to the Troutner
propert ies
Are you aware of any other information that the
Commissioners should consider in coming to their Decision?
Not that I can think of.
Thank you.
I have no further questions ofMS. NORDSTROM:
this wi tness.
Thank you.COMMISSIONER SMITH:
Ms. 0' Leary.
HEDRICK COURT REPORTING
O. BOX 578, BOISE , ID
Sterling (Di)Staff83701
CROSS - EXAMINATION
BY MS. 0' LEARY:
Mr. Sterling, could you explain a little more in
detail your conclusion that it would be less expensive to hook
the Troutner property up to Uni ted Water than Eagle Water?
Well , I believe that Mr. Wyatt explained that
slnce the Troutner properties front United Water's main line,
that there probably would be no cost for the Troutners since
would simply be a service line and there would be no main line
that would need to be installed.Mr. DeShazo, on the other
hand , I think had stated that the cost to serve the Troutner
properties would be 800 $1,200.
Thank you.
MS.0' LEARY:have nothing further.
COMMISSIONER SMITH:Mr.Miller.
CROSS-EXAMINATION
BY MR. MILLER:
Has the Commission Staff received customer
complaints from customers of United Water in any significant
number in the general area that we're discussing?
Not that I'm aware of.
You've been at the Commission I think many years
HEDRI CK COURT REPORTING
P. O. BOX 578, BOISE , ID
Sterling (X)Staff83701
now probably.Don't need to admi t how many.
Approximately 11, I think, 10 or 11.
As a general matter, what is United Water'
reputation at the Commission with respeet to its responsiveness
when it does receive eomplaints?
Most United Water complaints probably don't even
find their way to me.They're handled by our consumer
investigator staff.The only ones that I deal with typically
are ones that they can't handle that involve line extension
issues or more complicated things that are more than just
routine, simple sorts of complaints , but there are generally
quite few of those.
Of the types of matters that you become involved
in, have you found that United Water is responsive to
Commission concerns and questions that you may have of United
Water?
Yes.I am not aware that any of the
- -
that we
ever get complaints about responsiveness.When there is a
complaint they get responded to usually very quickly, and so
customers don't complain about the response or the time for a
response.
MR. MILLER:That's all I have.Thank you,
Madam Cha i rman .
COMMISSIONER SMITH:Thank you.
Commissioner Kj ellander.
HEDRI CK COURT REPORTING
O. BOX 578 , BOISE , ID 83701
Sterling (X)Staff
EXAMINATION
BY COMMI S S IONER KJELLANDER:
Mr. Sterling, I'm not an engineer , and I guess
have a question that hopefully you could help provide some
elari ty.I think I heard from Mr. DeShazo that Eagle Water
would serve the water wi th a 12 - inch main and an eight inch
maln as a combination , and I believe we heard from Mr. Wyatt
that United Water has a 16-inch main that runs along that
route.Is there any inherent plus or minus associated with the
size of the mains that would be used to provide water in those
parcel s?
No.The amount of water that would be required
to serve those parcels, you wouldn'need anything close to a
would be thanmalnmore
that those parcels would
16-ineh main , and even an eight-inch
sufficient for the quantity of water
require.United Water 's 16-inch main is as large as it is
because it's probably considered a transmission line that takes
water from wells located north of Eagle, and it also helps to
fill some of their storage reservoirs and serves a lot of other
purposes besides just distribution , whereas Eagle Water'
eight-inch line is a
- -
probably a fairly typical main line
size that you'd have in a not real highly developed residential
area.
So then the Slze isn't relevant?
HEDRICK COURT REPORTING
O. BOX 578, BOISE , ID 83701
Sterling (Com)Staff
I don't think it's an issue in this case.
Thank you.
EXAMINATION
BY COMMISSIONER SMITH:
Mr. Sterling, I guess I had a question.Maybe
you've already answered it when you gave your suggested
resolution.And my question was even given the information
that the Commission got today, are we in a position to
determine which company could serve most economically or
efficiently if we decided all things, everything else , was
equal?
No.My recommendation was simply based on
information that has been provided today, and I would
- -
would hope that we could give both companies an opportunity to
provide a more accurate estimate of cost to serve these
properties and exactly what facilities may be necessary.
think my recommendation was simply based on what I take to be
fairly rough estimates at this point , especially in the case of
United Water.It sounds like Eagle Water has spent a little
more time making the estimates, whereas Uni ted Water may not
have.But I prefer to see better numbers before.
And how long would you think that would take them
to do those estimates?
HEDRICK COURT REPORTING
O. BOX 578 , BOISE, ID 83701
Sterling (Com)
Staf f
I would expect both
- -
ei ther company eould do
them in a matter of a few days , I would expect.
Okay.And when does the church need service, do
you know?
The church , my last conversation with them , whieh
was probably approximately a week ago , they had said, We would
start construction immediately if we had water serVlee.
And they have apparently already done some
groundwork and maybe some foundations, I'm not sure, but they
can't actually begin the construction until they have fire
serVlce.And so they have said they could start immediately,
as soon as they get water serVlce.
Okay.Thank you very much.
Do you have redirect?COMMISSIONER SMITH:
MS. NORDSTROM:No.
Thanks for your help.COMMISSIONER SMITH:
(The wi tness left the stand.
We'll be at ease for aCOMMISSIONER SMITH:
moment.
(Discussion off the record.
All right, let's go back onCOMMI S S lONER SMI TH :
the record.Based - - we, first of all, want to thank all the
parties for the spur-of-the-moment little hearing.I know that
it's not usually something the Commission does, but I think
when we have customers waiting for service and the Commission
HEDRICK COURT REPORTING
P. O. BOX 578, BOISE , ID
COLLOQUY
83701
is part of that delay, it behooves us to act expeditiously.
I think what we're prepared to say now is that
Eagle Water should expect to and make plans to serve the
cemetery.
Wi th regard to the two Troutner pareels and the
two McKay parcels , we would wish for both Eagle Water Company
and Uni ted Water Company to provide us wi th the detailed cost
estimates of serving those properties, and do so by next
Wednesday.In addition to the cost estimates , we would need to
know your easement arrangements, be they potential or in-hand
and, of course, the cost of those.I think the Commission
would be remiss in not having more detailed and firmer cost
estimates in determining who is in the best position to serve
this in an economic and expeditious manner.And time is also,
I think , of the essence , so include your estimated time
realizing that part of the permits and process that you depend
on is outside of your control.
Is there any other issue or matter that the
parties want to bring forward to the Commission?Mr. Miller.
Just one or two things:MR . MI LLER :
First , we'd ask that the reporter mark the map as
Exhibit 101.
As the Commission is aware, informally we have
provided some other maps.I f those would be useful to the
Commission in any way, we could mark those as exhibi ts as well
HEDRICK COURT REPORTING
P. O. BOX 578, BOISE, ID
COLLOQUY
83701
and they could be before you formally.
I guess I would askCOMMISSIONER SMITH:
Ms. 0' Leary and Ms. Nordstrom and Mr. Smith if they have had an
opportuni ty to look at the maps, if they have any obj ection to
them being exhibi ts here, given that somebody may want to look
at them.
I did have an opportuni ty to lookMS. 0' LEARY:
at them very briefly before our meeting today, and I do note
that they re not accurate as to Eagle Water's current service
It does not include, for instance, Petticoat Junction.area.
So without more time to do a more thorough review, I would
suggest that they're probably not helpful at this point.
It sounds to me, Mr. MillerCOMMISSIONER SMITH:
like maybe they could be brought back for the informal process
that will be ongoing, and maybe if parties think there are
inaccuracies, those could be addressed through that.
That would be fine.I would justMR. MILLER:
note that the Petticoat Junction question of whether or not
it's shown on the maps is completely irrelevant to what you
have before you , so that inaccuracy is immaterial.
Yes, I understand that, butCOMMISSIONER SMITH:
I also think that what's on Exhibit 101 probably is what'
relevant and is probably suff icient to give us a
Fine, we just, if you want them , weMR. MILLER:
would be happy to provide them.
HEDRI CK COURT REPORTINGP. O. BOX 578, BOISE, ID
COLLOQUY
83701
The only other note is we will do our best to
eomply with your request for detailed cost estimates by next
Wednesday, with the small caveat that since these customers did
not apply to United, they did not supply to United and United
has not performed any engineering detailed study of precisely
what would be required to serve.I think though that United
Water engineers could view the property and get reasonably
accurate estimates.
I was wondering, since weCOMMISSIONER SMITH:
don't want to surprise customers with unanticipated Utility
visits, if Mr. Sterling has had -- I know he I s had
conversations with McKay and the church people, if I understood
them correctly.I don't know if he I s had conversation wi th the
But if he could contact them and let them know thatTroutners.
United will be asking them how they want serVlce provided in
order to prepare this estimate that has been requested by the
Commission , maybe that could smooth the way there.
And, ideally, if McKay and theMR. MILLER:
church properties could provide their actually plans, which I'
sure they mus t have.
Or at least let you viewCOMMISSIONER SMITH:
them.
MR.MILLER:Right.
help wi t ha t .
COMMI S S lONER SMITH:
Or maybe Mr. Sterling could
I guess it's our goal not --
HEDRI CK COURT REPORTING
P. O. BOX 578, BOISE, ID
COLLOQUY
83701
to just have the best information we can so that when we make a
Deeision, we have confidence that it's based on aeeurate
information.
If Mr. Sterling could obtain thoseMR. MILLER:
plans and let us look at them , that would help a great deal
giving the Commission that information.
Okay.COMMISSIONER SMITH:
Ms. Nordstrom.
Does the Commission have any timeMS. NORDSTROM:
frame in mind for when they wish to open and proceed with the
second proceeding dealing with the uncertificated areas and
when the issue regarding the Parrs should be dealt with?
COMMISSIONER SMITH:Almost immediately, with
regard to the Parrs.I don't think we have strong preference
wi th regard to the rest of the area unless or until we get a
request for serviee, but wi th regard to the Parrs, I think we
ought to get on that right away.
Now , whether that requires that we have opened a
case and had a schedule, I don't know.Maybe the people can
si t down informally in the next couple of weeks and maybe the
answer will become apparent by doing that, I don 't know , but
don't think that ought to drag out.
I f there - - is there anything else, Ms. 0' Leary?
Okay.
We want to agaln thank you for your participation
HEDRI CK COURT REPORTING
O. BOX 578, BOISE , ID
COLLOQUY
83701
and all the information we got this morning.After we get the
estimates next Wednesday, the Commission will deliberate as
quickly as possible thereafter so that the Companies and the
eustomers know where they stand.
Thank you very much.We're adj ourned
(All exhibits previously marked for
identifieation were admitted into evidenee.
(The hearing adj ourned at 12: 06 p. m. )
HEDRI CK COURT REPORTINGP. O. BOX 578, BOISE , ID
COLLOQUY
83701
AUTHENT I CAT I ON
This is to certify that the foregoing is a
true and correct transcript to the best of my abili ty of the
proceedings held in the matter of the Application of Eagle
Water Company, Inc., to amend its Certifieate of Public
Convenienee and Neeessity No. 278, Case No. EAG-04-
commenclng on Wednesday, September 22, 2004 , at the Commission
Hearing Room, 472 West Washington , Boise, Idaho, and the
original thereof for the file of the Commission.
, 0' '
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WENDY J. MURRAY Not ry blicin and for the ate of Idaho,
residing at Meridian, Idaho.
My Commission expires 2-2008.
Idaho CSR No. 475
HEDRICK COURT REPORTINGP. O. BOX 578, BOISE, ID 83701
AUTHENTI CATION
09/21/2004 15: 55 9390257
..Jil\'l Ree~
EAGLE WATER CO I NC
20834389S'l
PAGE 02
p. 1
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S~p 21 04 03%39p
MTC, INC.
CONSULTING ENGINEERS, SURVEYORS, AND PLANNERS
707 N 27TH Si BOISE. IDAHO 83702-3' 13 (208) 345-07'38 FAX (208) 34;-8967
""'"
R'I l .-11 JI .d1
September 21, 2004
Mr. Robert DeShaT-O
Eagle Wa1erCompany
t 75 West State Street
Eagle, Idaho 83616
RE:Water MaiD ExtensioD'J Eagle, Idaho
Dear Robert:
The plans for the above referenced project were submitted and marked received by the
DEQ on July 26, 2004 and were also stamped by the DEQ technical service office on
August 25.2004. The approval letter was signed on September 14,2004 after we called
and asked when the plans approval could be expected. I was infonned that the DEQ had
no record of receiving these plans. I gave them the dates we submitted the plans to them
and that I had a conversation with the person on the desk to make sure the submittal was
com.plete~ We ~ved an approval letter three days later.
As you 1cnow we designed two different sets of plans for this project. 'Ibe first JocatiOl'\
was to cross a property that will require service in the future but the owner would not
sign an easement This caused comiderable delay because after the easement was not
signed we had to do the field work and design the second set of plans.
If you require further explanation please call me at 345-0780,
" "
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disinfected ond then flushed in accordance with fSPWC Specifications. The
:ed to determine if the appropriate minimum ch'orioe (C12) residuols hove
PAGE 03r-' .. ~
7ter Company, INC two (2) workinC1 days before initiol construction beging
,-four (24) hours rn Cldvance of bockfiiling.
.Ievotions to assure the lid e~e.".otions match finoi street grade end thot . al)
Jfode.
rller disinfection and flushing but prjor to installation of other utilities.
Contractor sholl preform a final pressure te$t with Eagle Weier Company.: furnish all perso'1nel and equipment necessary to conduct the test.
shown in on approximate manner only. The contractor $holl determineork by utilizing "diglioe He agrees to be fully responsible for any andto exactly Iocote and preserve any and aU underground utilities.
)feting the project.
StIM of of Quality
~ic:81 6eNiCM . State 0Ifice
PLANS & SPECIFICATIONS RE~EW
These pea,. ancitW 8P8dfica1lon8 have been for com-.
pI8no8 ... Department of &M'onmenbiI nMs. me
review do. not reI'eve '" owner r ervr-er. or fl. contraetor of
1M to deaIgn or IteM
---
in com-
pUMce \tith .. cunent feeIeral, ltat& and focal taWS"
rules. .regulations. or onfntnces, PtanIJ and/or speciflC8.tiona~t be tesUbo1ifted tot tWHtw if OOMtfUCtion is not comploted
wtII1in -,
t--
fn letter dated: '1
IVE
AU6 25-
OEPT. Of ENVIRONMENTAL OUAUTV~0NCAl SERVIces 0fRCE
lR1
&! ~\
17 is r-.."
LQJ
JUL 2 6 2rlJ4
SNVI&
ARJMENT BOISe- REG'
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QUALITY-r V\t. OFFICE
EAGLE WATER COMPANY fNCWATERLINE EXTENSION
E. SIDE E. STATE ST. CONNECTION EAGLEIDAHO TO EXISE. 12-- UNE IN ANCONA SUB.
.11& M T 7fn ". 21th at.
m:f~.!O;,:r()2AX 208 ,5-89&7N:'(:I('./Ilm D~~
~..~ - ,-. ,
WEST SIDE OF GRAVEL PIT
PIPE EAST SIDE GRA VEL PIT
BACKYARDS AND COMMON AREAS OF EAGLE SPRINGS SUDIVISION
COMMON AREA NORTH OF BIG SPRINGS BLVD.
AND OLD HORSESHOE BEND ROAD
10625 SAGE HOLLOW
9706 BIG SPRINGS BLVD.
9610 BIG SPRINGS AND 9856 BIG SPRINGS IN FOREGROUND
9802 BIG SPRINGS BLVD.
1197 ELK RIVER
~188 SKOK I E
MUD TRACKS FBeNT COMMON AREA - OLD HORSESHOE BEND ROAD
EAGLE SKATEBOARD PARK LOOKING NORTH AT ENTRANCE
BROWN SPOT CAUSED DURING MAINTENANCE OF PARK
SKATEBOARD PARK LOOKING SOUTH
. .
NORTH END OF SKATEBOARD PARK LOOKING NORTHWEST