20071012Hearing.pdf

BEFORE THE IDAHO PUBLIC UTILITIES COMMISSION
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) CASE NO. DIA-W-O7-
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IN THE MATTER OF THE APPLICATION
OF DIAMOND BAR ESTATES WATER
COMPANY FOR AN INCREASE IN RATES
AND CHARGES FOR WATER SERVICES IN
THE STATE OF IDAHO
PUBLIC HEARING
8037 WEST MONTANA STREET, RATHDRUM, IDAHO
SEPTEMBER 26, 2007
7:00
JULIE MCCAUGHAN, C. S. R. NO. 684
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REPORTED BY:
Coeur d' Alene, Idaho
Northern Offices
208.765.1700
800.879.1700
Spokane, Washington
509.455.4515
1.800.879.1700
Boise, Idaho
Southern Offices
208.345.9611
800.234.9611www.mmCQurt.com
COMMISSIONERS:
PAUL KJELLANDER, CHAIRMAN
MACK A. REDFORD
DONOVAN E. WALKER , Deputy Attorney General, appearingfor and on behalf of the Idaho Public Utili ties
Commission.
MALCOLM DYMKOSKI, Attorney at Law , 1110 West Park Place,
Suite 210, Coeur d'Alene, Idaho 83814 , appearing for and
on behalf of Diamond Bar Estates Water Company.
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TESTIMONY OF:
DARREL RAMU
DIANA JANTZEN
LEWIS LITZKO, JR.
MIKE R. MCNEIL
DARREL RAMUS
M & M Court Reporting Service, Inc.800-879-1700
PAGE
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RE: APPLICATION OF DIAMOND BAR ESTATES
COMMISSIONER KJELLANDER:My name s Paul
Kj ellander , and I'm the chairman of the Idaho Public
Utilities Commission.And to my left is Mr. Mack
And we have a third commissioner, MarthaRedford.
Smi th, who couldn t be here this morning.She ll have
an opportunity to review the record from the public
hearing, so when we do sit down to deliberate, your
comments will be reviewed by all three commissioners
before we render a decision.
The intent this evening is to take public
testimony in Case No. DIA-W-07 -01, which is the Diamond
Bar Water public hearing in relationship to the request
for a rate increase.And the way that things will work
this evening is that we will call you forward from the
list that we have had in the back room.And I think
several people have signed up, and there s still plenty
of time to sign up.ll call you up one by one,
have you come forward and sit in this chair, and
swear you in.We have a court reporter who will take
your testimony after you ve been asked a few very brief
questions for the record so that we can get your name,
your address and some other specifics about you for the
official record.And then you ll be allowed to provide
your statement to the commission.At that point, there
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will be an opportunity for the parties in the case to
ask some follow-up clarification questions, and the
commissioners will have a chance to ask questions, as
well.
Also , at any time this evening if you
decide that you would like to make written comment, as
opposed to making a public statement, we also have some
forms that are available for you that ll take back
wi th us and make a part of the official record.
The reason we develop an official record
is that by statute, by law , we have to base our decision
on the facts wi thin the case itself.We can t make
decisions based on hearsay that may occur outside or a
statement or a comment that may be made in the parking
lot.We have to base our decision on information that
we receive from testimony filed by the applicant and by
staff and other intervenors in the case, and from
members of the public like you.So this is a very
important piece of the entire process.So we would hope
that you would feel comfortable enough to at least come
forward and offer your thoughts and your perspective of
the proposed rate increase.
Before we go further , we need to move to
the introduction of the other parties in the case.And
ll begin with Donovan Walker , who is with the
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Attorney General's office, representing staff.I f you
could, for the record, tell us who you are and what you
do.
My name s Donovan Walker.MR. WALKER:Yes.
a Deputy Attorney General with the State of Idaho at the
Public Utilities Commission.
And ICOMMISSIONER KJELLANDER:Thank you.
believe to your left we have legal counsel for Diamond
Bar Water.Is that correct?
MR. DYMKOSKI:That is correct.My name is
Malcolm Dymkoski.And as the chair just pointed out,
m legal counsel for the applicant.
COMMISSIONER KJELLANDER:Now , I have this sheet
in front of me now that has just two names.And why
don I t we bring another sheet up in case some other folks
would like to testify.I have a tremendous ability to
butcher names, and so I will apologize for that in
advance.And feel free to correct me if I mispronounce
your name.
ll begin the testimony with our first
witness, and we ll call R. Meehan.
MIKE MEEHAN:It's Mike Meehan , and I've handed in
my testimony to be entered into the record.
COMMISSIONER KJELLANDER:Okay.So we have some
wri tten comments from you?
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MIKE MEEHAN:Yes.
Thank you very much.COMMISSIONER KJELLANDER:
Next on the record, we have Mike McNeil.
d like to give written comments,MIKE MCNEIL:
also.
Okay.COMMISSIONER KJELLANDER:
There were a couple of things MIKE MCNEIL:
wanted to say, but I think it would be easier for me to
wri te it than to try to say it.
COMMISSIONER KJELLANDER:We appreciate that.
Thank you.Darrel Ramus.
DARREL RAMU S:Okay.
COMMISSIONER KJELLANDER:Come forward,and
going let Commlssioner Redford swear you in.
COMMISSIONER REDFORD:Ra i s e your right hand,
please.Do you swear or affirm that the testimony
you re about to give in this matter will be the truth
the whole truth , and nothing but the truth?
DARREL RAMUS:Yes, I do.
COMMISSIONER REDFORD:Thank you.
DARREL RAMO S :I have to apologize, I did come a
little unprepared.Were these mailed outI don t know.
to everybody?
MR. WALKER:Yeah.Before we get started, can
just ask you a few things for purposes of the record?
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DARREL RAMUS:
MR. WALKER:
and your address.
DARRE L RAMU S :
Sure.
I need to have you state your name
Darrel Ramus, and my address is
14126 North Rodeo Road, Rathdrum.
MR. WALKER:And are you here today representing
any group in particular or just yourself?
DARREL RAMU S :
MR. WALKER:
Estates Water Company?
DARREL RAMU S :
MR. WALKER:
your statement.
DARREL RAMU S :
walked in the door.
homeowners?
MR. WALKER:
DARREL RAMU S :
MR. WALKER:
staff?
DARREL RAMUS:
MR. WALKER:
Just myself and my family.
And are you a customer of Diamond Bar
Yes.
If you could please go ahead and make
Okay.I just got these when I
Were these passed out to any of the
What are you referring to?
Well, the
Is that the comments of commission
Yes.
I don t think those were mailed out
individually to people , but they re
--
that is the
wri tten position and report the commission staff did in
this case, and it is part of the record.
M & M Court Reporting Service, Inc.
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800-879-1700 RE: APPLICATION OF DIAMOND BAR ESTATES
Then would it be more convenient toDARREL RAMUS:
actually mail that out to the people that would be here
tonight, though, instead of just picking it up when you
d like to have read this,wal k in the door, I guess?
I guess, before.
The procedure that theCOMMISSIONER KJELLANDER:
commission generally follows is that when we establish a
case and people intervene or they want to be on the
interested parties list , we will typically have those
people on a mailing list that receive that.We don
typically send out to every customer for a utility,
because even though we may have a utility that has a few
number of customers , we could run into a company that
has thousands of customers, which we have, for example,
Avista and Idaho Power, and that would probably just
about wlpe out any money we could pay Mack on a regular
basis if we got to that point.What we do though, in
future cases, which would be helpful at least for this
group to know , is that we post those as soon as they
filed on our websi te , so they re available there, but
again, that'
--
if you don t know it's there, it might
as well be put
DARREL RAMUS:And I don t deny that I could have
made an effort to get it.I just wished I had that
before.So that being said, I guess I'm just going to
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just run through -- I took what Diamond Bar Water
judging from this article that I found in
--
I believe
it was the Rathdrum newspaper
--
it explains what
Diamond Bar Water is proposing to charge in addition,
and then I think it explains what the PUC is
recommending, which is slightly different.I took my
own numbers from basically a year ago, and calculated
those, and in round numbers, the Diamond Bar situation
in my case is probably going to be about $400 additional
for the year, and for other people that may irrigate
more , they re probably going to be higher.The PUC
number in my case was fairly close.Actually, slightly
less.So I guess one question that I had was with an
additional $ 4 00 per year, multiply it by the number of
lots, I believe are 45 in the subdivision, you know,
it's somewhere in the neighborhood of $18,000 is my
rough calculation.There s probably a better number in
here somewhere.Was that disclosed in the reports what
the additional anticipated income to Diamond Bar Water
would be with this change?
MR. WALKER:Well
COMMISSIONER KJELLANDER:The way this specific
proceeding works, we generally take a statement from
you.It sounds like what you want to do is ask some
questions and get some specifics from staff.What
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do is make staff available after the public testimony
piece so that you can ask those questions, but let me
first make sure we ve got someone from staff here that'
in a position to answer that before I make that promise.
Dan , would that be you?
DAN GRAVES:Well, tentatively, yes, I could
probably answer it, but I'm not absolutely certain
can.
But if they had aCOMMISSIONER KJELLANDER:
specific question , you could at least walk them through
it?
DAN GRAVES:I could certainly take the question
down and find the answer.
COMMISSIONER KJELLANDER:And then you could
follow up on that.Okay.
COMMISSIONER REDFORD:You know what you might do
if you don t mind, you might take some time to take a
look at that and submit written comments if you want to.
DARREL RAMUS:I can do whatever
--
I mean, I
thought it was a pretty simple request.I would imagine
Diamond Bar probably added up what they needed for an
annual budget.That's not rocket science.So my
number s $18,000.I don t know what it really is, if
it's more or less.So I guess the question is my
concern is what would cause an increase in what we
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seeing here.re not paying any extra for the raw
I understand we have somematerial, for the water.
extra regulations with DEQ, et cetera.There s probably
some maintenance issues.I think I saw a pump was
replaced maybe two years ago or something.My concern,
though , is are we subsidizing for other developments,
because I understand we hooked in another development
into the Diamond Bar Water.And I guess my concern is
want to make sure that they re paying their fair share
for their own infrastructure and their meter hookups and
that's not being passed on to the existing homeowners to
subsidize an expansion to serve people outside of the
original Diamond Bar estates.So I don t know the
format, but that's my statement is I want to make sure
that any new development that gets brought into the
system pays their own way.
COMMISSIONER REDFORD:I think it is fair at least
to say that once we get a request or an application for
rate increase, our staff , which we have auditors, tax
audi tors, we have engineers and so on, they do a
complete audit, and one of the keys is to make sure that
the revenue generated or requested to be generated has
to have something to do with that water system or that
utility.And I think I can tell you that if that was
the case, I think our auditors would pick it up.Not to
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say that someone doesn t have a right to a fair rate of
return , but
DARREL RAMU S :Okay.
COMMISSIONER REDFORD:And I can I t tell you any
more than that, but I think it would be appropriate for
you to talk to our staff and
DARREL RAMUS:So if I made the assumption that
any new development expansion paid for its own way, then
that would leave maintenance and regulation.And I
guess I
--
my statement would be that I can t imagine
that the regulations would increase by what I calculated
or even maybe possibly a greater amount.If it is, I
think we re being overregulated.And that is a concern
that I'm sure all of your constituents have.
COMMISSIONER KJELLANDER:And Mr. Ramus, what
ve seen especially with small water companies, and
not this specific company, is when you look at some of
the changes that happen with DEQ and federal regulations
to drinking water , what makes water companies different
than any other utility is that people actually ingest
what the utility puts out , and because of that, there is
an enormous number of new things they have to test for.
They have to test for a higher level of it, because you
can test now , in many parts per million or billion,
you d at least be able to test for, and a small water
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company gets hit the same way as a large water company.
And what we ve discovered is the unfortunate reality of
the smaller water companies is that there are fewer
customers to spread those costs around, even though the
costs remain pretty much the same from one company to
the next , and that's been one of the common themes we '
brought into with small water companies around the
state , so we share your concern and recognize
I can see what youDARREL RAMUS:Right.
saying.I know you re not sayingI think I agree.
this, but I'm going to twist it a little bit.I think
the regulations are pushing Idaho into the situation of
high density residential centralized sewer, centralized
water , and I guess I can t believe that, you know,
five-acre parcels, you know , would be considered worse
than
--
I think we were putting at least 20 times the
number of homes densi tywise on our property, and how can
that possibly be better?It's unfortunate that the
regulations of Idaho are making it infeasible to have
five-acre parcels.
COMMISSIONER KJELLANDER:And I don t necessarily
want to pass the buck to the feds, but a lot of the
stuff actually comes from the federal level down to us
that these water companies are required to deal with.
They re not even the ones that we have the ability to
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We can t say, "You can t do this.control at the PUC.
Again , because it's a product that's ingested, it goes
through so many different regulatory groups.And you
got DEQ, you ve got federal regulations tied to it, and
then you ve got us looking at
--
left with trying to
figure out the price regulatory scheme that those with
the structure of the utility
--
I understand where
It's not easy, because the impact on ayoure at.
smaller water company is enormous, and I hope that Dan
can help you walk through some of your specific
questions in relationship to at least staff's testimony
and anything more that you may have in relationship to
the details of the original case as it was filed.But
before we can let you go
--
and typically we don
answer a lot of questions at this point, but you raised
some very pointed questions in relationship to the state
of water companies, not just in Idaho, but small water
companies throughout the country, because we re all
going through this.And we talk to regulators around
the nation.They ll sit back and they ll tell us,
just
--
you know , we all talk about the big cases, but
what's really plaguing a lot of them is how to deal with
a small water company, because we run into this very
situation with 43 customers, you get hit with fees, and
unlike a United Water or an Idaho Power, you don t have
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thousands of customers to spread those costs to, and it
becomes a
--
well, it becomes a nightmare, really, for
the customer to sit back and see those types of
percentage increases.So it I S no comfort to know that
this is happening all over the place , but I just wanted
to share with you that, in fact, it is something that'
very .common and not just in the state of Idaho.Now
that I've gotten off that piece
--
and I apologize for
that.
DARREL RAMUS:It's all right.
COMMISSIONER KJELLANDER:Going back to the
format, I'll see if there are any questions from legal
counsel.
MR. WALKER:I don t have any questions.
MR. DYMKOSKI:And I do not have any questions.
COMMISSIONER KJELLANDER:Mr. Redford?
COMMISSIONER REDFORD:No.
DARREL RAMU S :I did have one other parting
comment to sum it up.
COMMISSIONER KJELLANDER:Certainly.
DARREL RAMU S :I have a recommendation that
would like to place on the table.It's a
--
should we
be forced to do this , I'd like to at least recommend a
compromise.The PUC called for $29 for the first 4,000
gallons, I believe it was.And then it's 73 cents per
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000 after that.Where Diamond Bar Water added $50 for
the first 7 500 gallons and 45 cents per 1,000 gallons.
I would like to propose that we blend that to be
basically, having the advantages of both, so certainly
it's going to lower our costs, but my recommendation is
a $29 flat rate for the first 7 500 gallons.And then a
45-cent-per-l, OOO-galion rate thereafter.
Let me make sure I'COMMISSIONER KJELLANDER:
That's 7 500 and that would be $29got your answers.
for the first 7 , 500?
DARREL RAMUS:Yes.
COMMISSIONER KJELLANDER:And then what would be
the next piece?
DARREL RAMU S :Then it would be the
45-cents-per-, OOO-galion rate thereafter.And that
would still represent, at least in my case, about a
50-percent increase over what we re paying now.So it
would be 150 percent is what I'm estimating, as opposed
to getting close to not quite doubling, but it does
represent at least I think a reasonable compromise.
COMMISSIONER KJELLANDER:Okay.Thank you, Mr.
Ramus.I appreciate your testimony this evening.
DARREL RAMUS:Thank you.
COMMISSIONER KJELLANDER:Thank you.Kim Ramus?
KIM RAMUS:I think my husband covered it.
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That exhausts theCOMMISSIONER KJELLANDER:Okay.
names we have on this list, but certainly doesn
preclude us from taking testimony from others.Is there
anyone else?
DIANA JANTZEN: I'm going to speak.
COMMISSIONER KJELLANDER:Come on up.
m not written down on the list,DIANA JANTZEN:
I wasn t prepared to speak , but I guess I will try to go
through.
COMMISSIONER KJELLANDER:If we could have
Commissioner Redford swear you in.
COMMISSIONER REDFORD:Would you raise your right
hand, please?Do you swear or affirm that the testimony
you re about to give in this matter will be the truth
the whole truth, and nothing but the truth?
DIANA JANTZEN:I affirm.
COMMISSIONER REDFORD:Good.Thank you.Please
be seated.
MR. WALKER:Could you please state your name and
address?
DIANA JANTZEN:m Diana Jantzen , and I'm going
to speak loud enough so the people can hear back here.
COMMISSIONER KJELLANDER:Good.
DIANA JANTZEN:And so if you fellows would do the
same, we d appreciate it.m Diana Jantzen
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1708 West Diamond Bar Road, Rathdrum.n-t-
And are you a customer of theMR. WALKER:
company?
DIANA JANTZEN:I am.
And are you representing any largerMR. WALKER:
group or just yourself tonight?
Just myself.I live alone.AndDIANA JANTZEN:
m going to read this letter.
This letter is written to protest the
modified procedure on the Diamond Bar Estates Water
Company.Application to raise monthly rents, charges.
I demand a hearing on the request for increased water
fees by Robert N. Turnipseed for the following reasons:
At the time I purchased my home in 2001, I
paid $1,500 for water hook-up.There are 45 lots in the
subdivision , and I'm assuming that each one of the
others also paid $1 500 for this hook-up, which totaled
up to 67 500 paid to the developer.
I live alone.In 2001 , the monthly bill
was $16.Approximately two years ago, water rates were
raised to $21 a month.And overcharges.45 times $21
equals $945 a month.I have used my minimum.I have
never
--
I very seldom go over my minimum of the $21
fee.So when I'm paying
--
if I'm paying $21, I'
paying more than my share right now.
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I believe the developer has made his
There were 45,I understand, as itprofi t on each lot.
was sold.
We have a corporation called the Diamond
Bar Homeowners Association.Article 3 states,This
corporation is not organized for profit.And I have
the book here that shows the printed word.I believe
the raising of water rates does not comply and needs to
be revised and go through proper channels, because is
the water company a monopoly controlling all the water
for the 45 lots?Do we, as individual owners have the
right to drill our own wells?Who has ownership of the
water on our 4.876 acres?
Then I'm going to continue in this book
which says the CC&Rs.Declarant shall meanIt says,
Diamond Bar Estates and its representatives,successors
and assigns.Board as the water system committee.The
board is authorized to act as a water system control
commi t tee and to adopt, amend and enforce certain rules
and regulations.is that -- is that
--
I hopeNow
that somebody asks me if that's legal, if we re asking
you folks to take care of things.
The water system control committee.The
board at its option may appoint a standing committee to
be known as a water system control committee.And I' d
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like to say:Has this been done?
Release and identification of declarant
The declarant has created waterfor water system.
system for the use of owners and to be organized by the
association assisting the declarant transfer of
declarant interests in the water system.
And I just want to know what those things
mean.Thank you.
You re welcome.COMMISSIONER REDFORD:
COMMISSIONER KJELLANDER:I appreciate it.
DIANA JANTZEN:And I hope you ll speak a little
louder , because I was sitting in the second row and
couldn t hear you folks.
COMMISSIONER KJELLANDER:We apologize.When we
came this evening, they informed us that the speaker
system in here was on the fritz.
DIANA JANTZEN:Oh.
COMMISSIONER KJELLANDER:And so I apologize for
not speaking louder.Before you leave, though, let'
see if we have any questions.Are there any questions?
MR. WALKER:I have no questions, but I would
encourage you to maybe stick around afterwards and visit
wi th some of the staff and maybe they could answer some
of your questions.This really isn t the forum for
answering your questions, but maybe afterwards we could.
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COMMISSIONER KJELLANDER:Any questions?
COMMISSIONER REDFORD:No.
MR. DYMKOSKI:Yes, I have a couple questions.
Several years ago , did you attend the
homeowners meeting when the water system was offered to
the homeowners?
DIANA JANTZEN:
homeowners?
MR. DYMKOSKI:
the water company.
DIANA JANTZEN:
MR. DYMKOSKI:
Are you an attorney for the
m an attorney for Diamond Bar,
Yes, I was there.
And do you recall what the result
of that vote was, that decision?
DIANA JANTZEN:
didn t want it.
MR. DYMKOSKI:
Okay.
DIANA JANTZEN:
it's a nonprofit.
nonprofi t.
MR. DYMKOSKI:
you.
I think the people said they
They didn t want the water system.
My question was, though , is if
Our statement on the CC&Rs say it'
I have no other questions.Thank
COMMISSIONER REDFORD:Thank you very much.
COMMISSIONER KJELLANDER:We appreciate it.
COMMISSIONER REDFORD:And ll talk up, if you
M & M Court Reporting Service, Inc.
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talk up, because I can t hear, either.
ll call Lewis Litzko.COMMI S S lONER KJELLAN DER
If we could have you come on up, Lewis, we ll get you
sworn in and get you officially on the record.
Would you raise your rightCOMMISSIONER REDFORD:
Do you swear or affirm that the testimonyhand, please?
you re about to give in this matter will be the truth,
the whole truth , and nothing but the truth?
LEWIS LITZKO:Yep.
COMMISSIONER REDFORD:Thank you.
MR. WALKER:Could you please state your name and
address for the record?
LEWIS LITZKO:Lewis William Litzko, 2582 West
Diamond Bar Road.
COMMISS lONER REDFORD:Speak up a little bit so we
can all hear.
LEWIS LITZKO:Lewis William Litzko, Jr., 2582
West Diamond Bar Road.
MR.WALKER:Are you customer the company?
LEWI S LITZKO:Yes;
MR.WALKER:And are you representing any other
groups besides yourself?
LEWIS LITZKO:No.
MR. WALKER:Okay.Thank you.
COMMISSIONER REDFORD:Go ahead.Proceed.
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Joe Shea, my next-door neighbor,LEWIS LITZKO:
neighbor across the street
--
basically ll just cut to
It's a heck of a lot of money the guys arethe chase.
asking for.ve beenve been here for three years.
seelng the bill go straight up.And bottom line, I
think 10,000 gallons for $29 a month and maybe 60 cents
for everything over that usage would be more than fair.
Crunching numbers, seeing it, because we ve gone through
six other water districts, they vary from population,
high and low, and it pretty much seems to be the norm.
So as the other gentleman was saying earlier, you have
people coming in.We don t want the brunt of carrying
the burden.That's short and sweet.Thank you.
Any questions?
COMMISSIONER KJELLANDER:Any questions?
MR. WALKER:I have no questions.
MR. DYMKOSKI:I have no questions.
COMMISSIONER REDFORD:Thank you very much.
COMMISSIONER KJELLANDER:Just before you leave,
let me make sure I've got the numbers.You were looking
at $29 for the first 10 000 and then 50 cents per usage
over?
LEWIS LITZKO:60 cents.
COMMISSIONER KJELLANDER:60 cents?
LEWIS LITZKO:60 cents.
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M & M Court Reporting Service, Inc.800-879-1700 RE: APPLICATION OF DIAMOND BAR ESTATES
COMMISSIONER KJELLANDER:Okay.
Thank you for your testimony.
LEWIS LITZKO:Yep.
m glad I asked.
Is there anyone elseCOMMISSIONER KJELLANDER:
that would like to provide some public testimony this
evening?
Actually, I was looking at what MIKE MCNEIL:
have here now , and I think maybe it would be better for
me to state it than try to write it.
COMMISSIONER KJELLANDER:You are Mike McNeil?
MIKE MCNEIL:Mike McNeil.Yes.
COMMISSIONER KJELLANDER:Come on up here.
get you sworn in and get your name officially on the
record.
COMMISSIONER REDFORD:Do you swear or affirm that
the testimony you re about to give in this matter will
be the truth, the whole truth , and nothing but the
truth?
MIKE MCNEIL:Yes.
COMMISSIONER REDFORD:Thank you.
MR. WALKER:Could you please state your name and
address for the record?
MIKE MCNEIL:Yes , I can.It's Mike R. McNeil.
2424 West Diamond Bar Road.And I am a Diamond Bar
customer for water.
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M & M Court Reporting Service, Inc.800-879-1700 RE: APPLICATION OF DIAMOND BAR ESTATES
Remember to speak up.COMMISSIONER REDFORD:
Are you representing any larger groupMR. WALKER:
or just yourself?
Just myself and my family.MIKE MCNEIL:
Thank you.MR. WALKER:
Some of this is repetitious to whatMIKE MCNEIL:
was just stated.In checking with the other water
companies in the area
--
ve been a life-long resident
ve been in both
--
Avondale and Haydenof the area.
Lake Irrigation District are the two that I've had the
most dealings with.And they currently have that 10,000
gallon allotment per month.And they don t bill month
by month , they bill yearly, where you pay the first half
in December and second half in May or June, which
think may save some on costs for mailing, what have you
some of the administration costs.That would be one of
the propositions that I would make in terms of billing.
And I also would go with the idea of
10,000 gallons per month for the basic $29 charge and
the 50 cents per thousand overage.
COMMI S S lONER KJELLANDER:Did you say 50 cents?
MIKE MCNEIL:I don I t remember what it was the
last time was there.What they have right now both
them.And think Hayden Lake was going change
theirs for next year and don have any information
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M & M Court Reporting Service, Inc.800-879-1700 RE: APPLICATION OF DIAMOND BAR ESTATES
on that, but for 2007 for Hayden Lake for a five-acre
parcel
--
this is also for Avondale for a five-acre
Which Hayden Lake Irrigation District allowsparcel.
120,000 gallons per year, and that's $200 a year for
domestic.And the irrigation they have 326,000 gallons
The first acre they have $65.40 an acre.per acre.
Then it's $35.40 per acre after that.And both of them
work out to about $404 a year for domestic and
irrigation on a five-acre parcel.And on Avondale
Irrigation District, they have the
, OOO-galion-per-month allotment for domestic, and then
they have 1,630,000 gallons for a five-acre parcel
allotment.
COMMISSIONER REDFORD:ll just break in.What
are the lots
--
size of the lots usually in the
subdivision?
MIKE MCNEIL:What's that?
COMMISSIONER REDFORD:What are the size of your
lots?
MIKE MCNEIL:They are roughly five acres or just
a little under.That's why I was figuring these for
five-acre parcels.
COMMISSIONER REDFORD:Thank you.
COMMISSIONER KJELLANDER:And the typical usage on
five acres?Are there covenants that require certain
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M & M Court Reporting Service, Inc.800-879-1700 RE: APPLICATION OF DIAMOND BAR ESTATES
pleces of the property have to be green space?Are
there specific covenants?
There is a requirement that theyMIKE MCNEIL:
wanted a yard in wi thin a year of residency, which there
was no specific size that I'm aware of that I can recall
right off hand.
For the whole five acres?COMMISSIONER REDFORD:
But if you were to
--
well, myMIKE MCNEIL:
primary reason for buying five acres is to have
livestock.My daughter shows horses.We have horses
and livestock.This year, I really didn t water my
yard , because it was so hot and dry.I don t have a
current irrigation system in.But if I were to water my
yard, I would go way over the present allotment that we
have.All that I've ever done is I have watered our
Ii vestock and we have taken showers, baths, all the
usual domestic activities short of full irrigation of a
yard, per se.You know , not definitely defined size of
a yard.
COMMISSIONER REDFORD:Thank you.
COMMISSIONER KJELLANDER:One of the questions
that I would have sort of hits on your comment about the
billing cycles and moving to a twice-year billing.
was wondering to what extent that would have an impact
and maybe perhaps a negative impact, on the decision on
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M & M Court Reporting Service, Inc.800-879-1700 RE: APPLICATION OF DIAMOND BAR ESTATES
how to water during the summer , if you didn t know what
your usage was, let's say, month to month, if that might
have a negative impact on how much water you used and
ul tima tely how big your bill might get.
Well, I don t see it really as a bigMIKE MCNEIL:
impact , because the way they figured it -- if
understand it correctly -- was they allot the gallons
They bill you on a yearly cycle.And if youper month.
go over the total gallon amount for the entire year is
when you pay your extra amount per thousand over, you
know , when your next billing comes out.
COMMISSIONER KJELLANDER:Okay.Thank you.
MIKE MCNEIL:That's my understanding.And I' d
also
--
just as a side note, I'm kind of curious whether
we would be able to drill our own wells, because I had
considered that option for possibly doing my own
irrigation that way.And then a little domestic
wouldn t be as big of a deal.
COMMISSIONER REDFORD:I would suggest if
you re -- that's not our department, but if I would
suggest that you call the Idaho Department of Water
Resources.And I just don t know the answer.I know
that I live on the Boise River and they won t let me
take any water out of the river , so I just don t know.
MIKE MCNEIL:That's basically what I had.
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M & M Court Reporting Service, Inc.800-879-1700 RE: APPLICATION OF DIAMOND BAR ESTATES
got documentation on what they charged for last year and
what they have in line for next year.
Thank you.COMMISSIONER REDFORD:
Mr. McNeil, let's see ifCOMMISSIONER KJELLANDER:
there I S some other questions.Do we have any questions?
I have no questions, thank you.MR. WALKER:
Any questions?COMMISSIONER KJELLANDER:
I have no questions.MR. DYMKOSKI:
Thank you.COMMISSIONER REDFORD:
COMMISSIONER KJELLANDER:Mr. McNeil, thank you
very much.
MIKE MCNEIL:I decided it was just easier to say
it.I couldn t put it quite into the words I want.
COMMISSIONER KJELLANDER:appreciate that.
there anyone else who would like
provide some public testimony this evening?
DARREL RAMU S:there one else,would
like to amend my earlier testimony.
COMMISSIONER KJELLANDER:Come on up.And you
already sworn in.And you re already on the record.
if we could just have you sit and restate your name for
purposes of the court reporter.
DARREL RAMU S :Darrel Ramus.After the last two
gentlemen that went here , I'd like to amend my
recommendation to be the $29 per 10,000 gallons and the
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M & M Court Reporting Service, Inc.800-879-1700 RE: APPLICATION OF DIAMOND BAR ESTATES
60 cents or 50 cents, but I think 60 cents is probably
the number that was more correctly stated, per thousand
I think that's a fair compromise.And ifgallons.
there s a way to do some kind of leveling, like I think
wi th the power bill and things, there s a way that you
can level out those costs over the year with those
allotments, that would be I think a thing to consider,
as well.
You mean a level pay kindCOMMISSIONER REDFORD:
of a thing?
DARREL RAMUS:Right.Moving average.m not
sure of the math to achieve that.And then the final
comment, I would Ii ke to also state, you know , there s a
recent aquifer study that did show , in fact, that the
aquifer actually does have plenty of water.There s not
a lack of water.And I guess it just struck me as being
kind of silly in some ways that we re charging per
gallon because we re pulling it out of the aquifer, and
it's not like we re flushing more toilets or something
like that.It's really irrigation is what it comes down
to.re pulling water up on the five acres, we
irrigating it for maybe hay or horses or something like
that, and it's basically going back down into the
aquifer.So I mean, it just struck me as kind of silly,
actually, to be charging a per-gallon rate when I don
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M & M Court Reporting Service, Inc.800-879-1700 RE: APPLICATION OF DIAMOND BAR ESTATES
know that that really is where the real cost basis
actually is in our situation here.
Could you give usCOMMISSIONER KJELLANDER:
just
--
while we have you back again
--
just a sort of a
quick thumbnail sketch of what your water usage is like,
what you water , how much is for irrigation , how much for
hay, what type of acreage you re talking in reference to
the hay.
We -- out of our approximateDARREL RAMUS:Sure.
five acres, about four of that is in Timothy hay that
was left over from prior to development.About one acre
is structures and yard.All we irrigate is on that one
acre, which is really less than an acre because of
structures and areas that are not permeable.And
that'
--
other than that, it's just typical home usage,
but the real difference is whether we irrigate or not.
And I guess my point is, I don t think, you know , other
than maybe wear and tear on the equipment, whether you
use 10,000 gallons or 20,000 gallons, depending on what
you re irrigating or whatever, really is not
--
really
shouldn t be driving the cost up.And maybe there s a
way to separate irrigation water from domestic water for
testing purposes.Probably that's not feasible with the
way the reservoir is set up, I would imagine.But
anyway, I guess to simplify my argument, I would just
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M & M Court Reporting Service, Inc.800-879-1700 RE: APPLICATION OF DIAMOND BAR ESTATES
like to recommend a compromlse of $29 per 10,000 gallons
and 60 cents per 1,000 gallons thereafter.
We appreciate yourCOMMISSIONER KJELLANDER:
testimony.Let's see if there are any other questions.
One thing that I know that we will have
staff do is take those numbers and run it through and
see what that does in terms of revenue requirement that
they think might be the reasonable revenue requirement,
just see what that does.So we ll try to take a look at
that before we make any decision.
Are there any questions?
MR. WALKER:I have no questions.Thank you.
MR. DYMKOSKI:I have no questions.
COMMISSIONER KJELLANDER:Thank you.
Is there anyone else who would like to
testify before we conclude the proceedings this evening?
And we d just like to remind people, too,
that we will have
--
Dan Graves will be here for a while
after the meeting this evening.So if you have some
specific questions, he ll try to answer them.And to
the extent that he can t answer them tonight, I'll go
ahead and make the promise for him that we ll do our
best to try to get that to you in a very timely fashion.
So he might need to get your address , if you have some
specific questions that you d like to put to him and he
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M & M Court Reporting Service, Inc.800-879-1700 RE: APPLICATION OF DIAMOND BAR ESTATES
doesn t have an answer for you this evening.
Also, if you want to submit some written
comments that you haven I t yet submitted, if you could
get those to Dan since he ll be here , and he I 11 make
sure they get back and get entered into the official
record so they can be reviewed as we begin to deliberate
on thi s proceeding.
So with that said, I'd also like to remind
everyone to turn off their cell phones.And I'd like to
thank all of you for taking the time to come out this
evenlng.It really is important to get the public
testimony, and I can t tell you how many times we ll go
out and hold public hearings and have the room be empty.
So it's very helpful to hear from people to find out
exactly what you re experiencing, and that does make an
impact on the way in which we deliberate.So again, I
appreciate your time and your effort coming out tonight,
and certainly do appreciate your testimony.
So with that, ll conclude our
proceedings this evening.And again , thank you, and we
hope you have a good evening.
(Whereupon , the hearing was concluded
at 7:35 p.
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M & M Court Reporting Servi ce, Inc.800-879-1700 RE: APPLICATION OF DIAMOND BAR ESTATES
Page 36
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M & M Court Reporting Service, Inc.800-879-1700 RE: APPLICATION OF DIAMOND BAR ESTATES
Page 37
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M & M Court Reporting Service, Inc.800-879-1700 RE: APPLICATION OF DIAMOND BAR ESTATES
Page 38
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M & M Court Reporting Service, Inc.800-879-1700 RE: APPLICATION OF DIAMOND BAR ESTATES
Page 39
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M & M Court Reporting Service, Inc.800-879-1700 RE: APPLICATION OF DIAMOND BAR ESTATES
Page 40
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Page 42
RE: APPLICATION OF DIAMOND BAR ESTATES
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REPORTER'S CERTIFICATE
I, JULIE MCCAUGHAN, Certified Shorthand Reporter,
do hereby certify:
That the foregoing proceedings were taken
before me at the time and place therein set forth, at
which time any witnesses were placed under oath;
That the testimony and all obj ections made
were recorded stenographically by me and were thereafter
transcribed by me or under my direction;
That the foregoing is a true and correct
record of all testimony given , to the best of my
ability;
That I am not a relative or employee of
any attorney or of any of the parties, nor am
financially interested in the action.
IN WITNESS WHEREOF , I have hereunto set my
hand and seal October 10, 2007.
JULIE CCAUGHAN , ID R. No.
Notary Public
816 Sherman Avenue , Suite 7
Coeur d'Alene , ID 83814
684
My Commission Expires February 9, 2010.
Page 35
M & M Court Reporting Service, Inc.800-879-1700 RE: APPLICATION OF DIAMOND BAR ESTATES