PUCDRIGG.txt

1 DRIGGS, IDAHO, TUESDAY, MAY 5, 1998, 7:10 P.M.

2

3

4 COMMISSIONER HANSEN: Good evening, ladies

5 and gentlemen. Can you hear me?

6 AUDIENCE: Not very well.

7 COMMISSIONER HANSEN: Good evening, ladies

8 and gentlemen. Can you hear me?

9 AUDIENCE: Yes.

10 COMMISSIONER HANSEN: Okay, this public

11 hearing will now be in order. This is the time and place

12 set by the Idaho Public Utilities Commission for a public

13 hearing in Case No. GNR-T-97-8, known as in the matter of

14 the petition from residents of Teton County requesting

15 extended area service (EAS) to the greater Idaho Falls

16 area.

17 I'm Commissioner Dennis Hansen and I'll be

18 Chairman of tonight's hearing. At my right is

19 Commissioner Marsha Smith and Commissioner Ralph Nelson

20 is the third Commissioner and he is excused this

21 evening. The three of us make up the entire Commission

22 and we will be the ones that will be deciding this case.

23 The purpose of tonight's hearing is to take

24 public testimony regarding customers' willingness to pay

25 the rates proposed for EAS. Now, we were here a few

1

CSB REPORTING COLLOQUY
Wilder, Idaho 83676

1 months ago, and I know it was a few months ago because it

2 snowed that night, but we got testimony and at that time

3 the Commission was convinced that it was mostly unanimous

4 that the people of this area wanted expanded area

5 calling.

6 At that hearing we did not know for sure

7 what that rate would be. We asked you at that time if

8 you'd be willing to pay 5 or, I believe, even up to

9 $10.00 extra to have the expanded area calling. After

10 that hearing, the Staff and the other parties involved

11 negotiated a price settlement which they felt was fair to

12 the Company as well as to the customers to cover the cost

13 of expanding the calling area.

14 At that time they presented this to the

15 Commission and the rate they had arrived at was $24.10

16 for a residential rate, business rate at $42.00 and

17 measured service for 90 minutes at $16.00 plus $.03 a

18 minute additional after the 90 minutes. The Commission

19 deliberated on that and unanimously accepted that

20 proposal, so here tonight we are not here to discuss

21 whether that rate is fair or whether it should be higher

22 or should be lower. The Commission has accepted that

23 proposal and what we're here tonight is to find out

24 whether you people want to accept extended area calling

25 at those rates or whether you would prefer not to.

2

CSB REPORTING COLLOQUY
Wilder, Idaho 83676

1 We will not accept testimony addressing new

2 issues this evening or additional evidence regarding the

3 issues that the Commission has already deliberated on, so

4 here tonight we're here for one reason and that is to

5 find out whether the people of Teton County want to

6 expand the local calling area at those rates that have

7 been approved by the Commission; so, first of all, before

8 we start tonight receiving public testimony and hearing

9 from you people, we would like to take the appearances of

10 the parties that are here this evening.

11 We will start with you, Mr. McClure.

12 MR. McCLURE: Yes, Mr. Commissioner, my

13 name is Ken McClure with the law firm of Givens, Pursley

14 appearing on behalf of Teton Telecom. With me this

15 evening is Mr. Allen Hoopes and Mr. Ron McCue of Teton

16 Telecom.

17 COMMISSIONER HANSEN: Thank you.

18 MR. RICHARDSON: I'm Renee Richardson with

19 U S WEST.

20 COMMISSIONER HANSEN: Okay, and

21 Mr. Gallagher.

22 MR. GALLAGHER: My name is Patrick

23 Gallagher and I represent the Coalition for Fair Utility

24 Rates or COFFURs.

25 COMMISSIONER HANSEN: And we have

3

CSB REPORTING COLLOQUY
Wilder, Idaho 83676

1 Mr. Howell with the Staff.

2 MR. HOWELL: I'm Don Howell, Deputy

3 Attorney General, if I can get my mike to work. I'm

4 representing the Commission Staff tonight.

5 COMMISSIONER HANSEN: Thank you. Before we

6 start taking the public testimony this evening, I will

7 ask each party or allow each party to make a brief

8 statement and then after each party has been given an

9 opportunity to take a couple or three minutes and make an

10 introductory statement if they so desire, then we will

11 start down the list of those that have signed up, and

12 what we will do is ask you to come forward when we call

13 your name.

14 You'll come forward and Commissioner Smith

15 will ask you to raise your right arm and she'll have you

16 take an oath that you'll tell the truth and then our

17 Deputy Attorney General, Mr. Howell, will ask you your

18 name and to spell your last name so we have it correctly

19 on the record and then you'll be able to make your

20 statement.

21 After you've made your statement, there may

22 be one of the parties or the Commissioners that would

23 want to ask you a question and so we will ask if there's

24 any questions for you and most likely there probably will

25 not be and it's my job if they ask you too tough a

4

CSB REPORTING COLLOQUY
Wilder, Idaho 83676

1 question and you don't want to answer it, then I'll be on

2 your side and help you out, so anyway, we will get

3 started and first we'll ask Mr. Hoopes if he'd like to

4 come forward. He has already been sworn in earlier at

5 one of our hearings and so we will ask him to go ahead

6 and make his public statement.

7

8 ALLEN HOOPES,

9 produced as a witness at the instance of Teton Telecom,

10 having been previously duly sworn, resumed the stand and

11 was further examined and testified as follows:

12

13 THE WITNESS: My name is Allen Hoopes. I'm

14 president of Teton Telecom and I wanted to make a

15 statement on behalf of Teton Telecom. Many of you in the

16 audience already have a copy of this statement. I'm

17 going to read it. Although the Idaho Public Utilities

18 Commission's investigation concerning extended area

19 service for Teton Telecom's Driggs exchange was a

20 customer-initiated proceeding, Teton Telecom also

21 supports EAS.

22 EAS would allow Teton Valley residents to

23 merge with a larger community of interest that already

24 has been included within an eastern Idaho local calling

25 area. EAS requires some increase in the basic rate for

5

CSB REPORTING HOOPES
Wilder, Idaho 83676 Teton Telecom

1 customers because it imposes different costs on telephone

2 providers at the same time that it eliminates toll

3 revenues; however, Teton Telecom recognizes that given

4 the current increases in the statewide average for local

5 rates, Idaho's rural residents would experience increased

6 rates regardless of the availability of EAS simply to

7 allow rural telephone providers to continue to meet their

8 costs of service.

9 If EAS is granted to the Driggs exchange

10 now, it would allow this feature to be added to the

11 package of basic service that Teton Telecom's customers

12 receive as basic rates inevitably are adjusted in

13 response to the statewide average. Moreover, Teton

14 Telecom believes that the proposed rates of $24.10 for

15 residential and $42.00 for business represent a

16 reasonable and close approximation of the cost of

17 providing EAS to a calling area that includes more than

18 100,000 additional lines.

19 Teton Telecom's experience with calling

20 patterns and volumes has led it to conclude that without

21 EAS, Driggs exchange customers likely will find

22 themselves increasingly isolated in their communications

23 with other residents and the businesses of eastern

24 Idaho. This can only become a greater issue as

25 customers' telecommunications needs, options and usage

6

CSB REPORTING HOOPES
Wilder, Idaho 83676 Teton Telecom

1 increase. As a member of the Teton Valley's business

2 community, Teton Telecom believes that EAS and the

3 expanded community access it provides is necessary to

4 sustain and develop the local business environment.

5 The proposed rates for EAS include an

6 option for those residential customers who do not use

7 their phones extensively. The measured service rate

8 which is $16.00 per month would include up to 90 minutes

9 of toll free calling to the Teton Valley and to the

10 eastern Idaho local calling area. Teton Telecom believes

11 that this option shelters those persons who rarely would

12 make use of EAS's added value from any significant

13 increase in monthly rates attributable to providing

14 unlimited local calling to those who would use it

15 extensively.

16 Also, the low income credit of up to $10.50

17 per month for eligible customers will provide rate

18 assistance to mitigate potential impacts on those

19 customers who would most be affected by the cost of EAS.

20 This is our statement.

21 COMMISSIONER HANSEN: Thank you.

22 Do we have any questions for Mr. Hoopes?

23 Mr. Gallagher, do you have any questions?

24 MR. GALLAGHER: Yes.

25

7

CSB REPORTING HOOPES
Wilder, Idaho 83676 Teton Telecom

1 CROSS-EXAMINATION

2

3 BY MR. GALLAGHER:

4 Q How is this working? A little closer?

5 Mr. Hoopes, could I ask you, what I understand of

6 eligible customers, the low income credit up to $10.50

7 for eligible customers, as I understand it, you actually

8 have to be on welfare to be an eligible customer; is that

9 correct?

10 A There is a certain classification by Idaho

11 Welfare Services, yes. You must be on that list in order

12 to qualify for that credit. It involves, I believe,

13 power and other different utility assistance levels.

14 COMMISSIONER SMITH: You have to income

15 qualify.

16 THE WITNESS: It's based on income?

17 COMMISSIONER SMITH: You don't have to be

18 on welfare.

19 THE WITNESS: I stand corrected on that.

20 Q BY MR. GALLAGHER: Again, please?

21 A It's based on income levels, not

22 necessarily on welfare.

23 Q And do you know off the top of your head

24 what income is involved to be eligible for the

25 assistance?

8

CSB REPORTING HOOPES (X)
Wilder, Idaho 83676 Teton Telecom

1 A I do not off the top of my head.

2 Q Yeah, I'm going to try to be brief, which

3 is just the most difficult thing for me in the world, you

4 list here that this can only become a greater issue as

5 customers' telecommunications needs, options and usage

6 increases. I actually see this EAS as a lessening of

7 options. I have difficulty, you know, you're saying that

8 with more options, you're going to be giving more options

9 in the future, but, boy, I sure see this as having fewer

10 options. I mean, our two options are the --

11 COMMISSIONER HANSEN: Mr. Gallagher, you

12 need to be asking questions, not making a statement.

13 MR. GALLAGHER: Oh, thank you, sorry.

14 COMMISSIONER HANSEN: Do you have any other

15 questions?

16 MR. GALLAGHER: No, I'll leave the rest for

17 a statement. Thank you, sir.

18 COMMISSIONER HANSEN: Mr. Howell.

19 MR. HOWELL: No questions.

20 COMMISSIONER HANSEN: Commissioner Smith.

21 COMMISSIONER SMITH: No.

22 COMMISSIONER HANSEN: Mr. Hoopes, I have a

23 couple of questions.

24

25

9

CSB REPORTING HOOPES (X)
Wilder, Idaho 83676 Teton Telecom

1 EXAMINATION

2

3 BY COMMISSIONER HANSEN:

4 Q I believe you stated in your opening

5 testimony about the rates and the possibility of those

6 going up. How long is the rate freeze on right now?

7 When you purchased this franchised area from U S WEST, it

8 was three years. Are you familiar with when that date

9 ends?

10 A Yes, I believe it's March of 1999 because

11 the Commission ordered that, basically the sale case was

12 ordered in March of 1996, so we believe that the rate

13 freeze would end in March of 1999.

14 Q In March of 1999, do you see from your

15 Company's view that you would, would you be considering

16 this a high-cost area or would you think you would be

17 able to keep the rates at what they are now?

18 A It's definitely a high-cost area and we're

19 spending this year spending approximately a million

20 dollars in our network here in Driggs which would

21 continue to, you know, affect our costs, but I definitely

22 see the rates as going up as they are across the state

23 and across all of the western states. Rural rates are

24 going up and even urban rates are going up to the

25 residential customers.

10

CSB REPORTING HOOPES (Com)
Wilder, Idaho 83676 Teton Telecom

1 Q In many of the rural areas the phone

2 companies have to rely on Universal Service Funding,

3 which is Idaho Universal Service Funding money, in order

4 to keep the rates down. Do you see this area that you

5 would need to participate in the Idaho Universal Service

6 Fund to keep the rates down here or would you not?

7 A I would see that we would have to

8 participate in the Idaho Universal Service Fund, which

9 requires a 1.25 times the statewide average rate in order

10 to qualify for that assistance, which at this point with,

11 I believe, the statewide average is right around 17.51,

12 somewhere in that area, and the 24.10 rate is

13 approximately about that 125, 1.25, times the statewide

14 average. As those average rates go up, I would see that

15 going up, but rates are definitely going to continue to

16 go up.

17 Q So that I understand correctly, are you

18 saying, then, after the rate freeze that you anticipate

19 the need to bring this area under Universal Service

20 Funding which would be 125 percent of the statewide

21 average rate?

22 A That's correct.

23 Q And you're estimating that that would

24 probably be around $20.00 or so a month just for regular

25 service?

11

CSB REPORTING HOOPES (Com)
Wilder, Idaho 83676 Teton Telecom

1 A Correct, and as I indicated, as that

2 statewide average rate goes up, it would even escalate to

3 a higher level.

4 COMMISSIONER HANSEN: I see. Okay, that's

5 all the questions I have. Thank you.

6 MR. HOOPES: Thank you.

7 (The witness left the stand.)

8 COMMISSIONER HANSEN: U S WEST, would you

9 care to make a statement?

10 MS. RICHARDSON: No, we don't have a

11 prepared opening.

12 COMMISSIONER HANSEN: Mr. Gallagher, would

13 you like to make a statement?

14 MR. GALLAGHER: Actually, I would like to

15 speak as the first speaker, so at this moment, no, thank

16 you.

17 COMMISSIONER HANSEN: Mr. Howell, for the

18 Staff.

19 MR. HOWELL: The Staff would call Carolee

20 Hall.

21 COMMISSIONER SMITH: I believe you're still

22 under oath.

23

24

25

12

CSB REPORTING HOOPES (Com)
Wilder, Idaho 83676 Teton Telecom

1 CAROLEE HALL,

2 produced as a witness at the instance of the Staff,

3 having been previously duly sworn, resumed the stand and

4 was further examined and testified as follows:

5

6 DIRECT EXAMINATION

7

8 BY MR. HOWELL:

9 Q Ms. Hall, could you present the Staff's

10 statement?

11 A Yes. At the November hearing, many

12 testified that their phone bills were running between 70

13 and $100 per month and strongly encouraged the Commission

14 to grant EAS. On February 9th, Teton and Staff filed a

15 stipulation and settlement with the Commission. The

16 stipulation proposed monthly basic rates for residential

17 customers of 24.10 and $42.00. These rates represented a

18 significant increase from the rates proposed at the

19 November hearing.

20 The increase in basic rates was necessary

21 based on new information presented to Staff during the

22 negotiations that preceded the February 9th stipulation

23 and settlement agreement. The sale of Teton's Colorado

24 properties and the purchase of the Driggs exchange

25 created a shift in the way the Company's expenses are

13

CSB REPORTING HALL (Di)
Wilder, Idaho 83676 Staff

1 allocated. With the shift in expenses, it was necessary

2 for Staff to recalculate the costs associated with this

3 EAS. This is basically the reasons the rates were

4 increased for the Teton Telecom.

5 Staff has discussed the concern of new

6 rates with many of you. One of the concerns that was

7 voiced was that lower fixed income people probably would

8 not afford the new rates. At the time of the November

9 hearing, changes to the Idaho Telecommunications

10 Assistance Program, ITAP, had not been enacted by

11 legislature. When fully implemented approximately July

12 of '98, the ITAP program will provide a credit of $10.50

13 per month to eligible low income residential customers

14 and will be available by the time EAS is turned up. The

15 credit will decrease the monthly residential bill to

16 $13.50.

17 Another service that is being offered is

18 called measured service. This is an option that allows

19 residential customers to pay $16.00 per month and receive

20 90 free minutes of calling. Every minute in excess of

21 those 90 minutes will be billed at $.03 cents per

22 minute. At the $.03 per minute rate, a residential

23 customer would be able to talk an additional

24 four-and-a-half hours before they reach the 24.10 monthly

25 flat rate. When you combine the 90 free minutes and the

14

CSB REPORTING HALL (Di)
Wilder, Idaho 83676 Staff

1 additional four-and-a-half hours, the total calling time

2 equates to six hours of calling per month.

3 For those of you who do not use your phone

4 service often, this may be an option to reduce your

5 monthly phone bill. The ITAP program will also apply to

6 eligible measured service customers. Staff believes that

7 over time the implementation of EAS will be beneficial to

8 the majority of Teton Telecom customers.

9 EAS is being implemented around the Teton

10 County. This EAS region is growing into one of the

11 largest regions we currently have in Idaho. The

12 Commission and Staff are looking at many pending cases

13 that surround your county. If EAS is not implemented,

14 Teton County may be the only county without EAS and

15 experience toll calling for every call outside of your

16 immediate community.

17 That's Staff's opinion.

18 COMMISSIONER HANSEN: Thank you. Let's see

19 if we have any questions of Ms. Hall.

20 Any questions? Mr. Gallagher.

21 MR. GALLAGHER: Yeah.

22

23

24

25

15

CSB REPORTING HALL (Di)
Wilder, Idaho 83676 Staff

1 CROSS-EXAMINATION

2

3 BY MR. GALLAGHER:

4 Q Is today the deadline for this EAS? Are

5 there options in the future? This EAS hearing, is it

6 possible to enact an EAS in the future or is this the

7 last and final possibility for this EAS?

8 COMMISSIONER HANSEN: Maybe I can answer

9 that for you. This is the last hearing before the

10 Commission will issue an order. Whether they will grant

11 it or deny it will be dependent upon this hearing

12 tonight. The reason we're back here is we want to make

13 sure that the public supports it or doesn't support it.

14 That will key heavily in our decision. We are not going

15 to take a vote necessarily and see the numbers whether

16 it's a one vote victory or whatever, but we're here to

17 try to determine what the majority of the people here

18 would want.

19 To give you an idea, after the Commission

20 issues an order, if we were to issue an order to either

21 deny or to approve, any one of the public, any person has

22 within 21 days to petition to the Commission for

23 reconsideration and they need to state in that petition

24 why they feel it should be reconsidered, whether they

25 have new evidence that they feel the Commission did not

16

CSB REPORTING HALL (X)
Wilder, Idaho 83676 Staff

1 consider or the reason why.

2 Then the Commission will decide whether or

3 not there's merit to reconsider it and there is the

4 possibility, then, that the Commission could grant

5 reconsideration and based on that, you would have another

6 opportunity to present that particular evidence that the

7 Commission allowed to be reconsidered. The whole case

8 probably wouldn't be reconsidered, only new evidence that

9 would be brought to the Commission's attention that they

10 believed did not receive adequate consideration in the

11 prior hearings.

12 COMMISSIONER SMITH: Mr. Chairman? I

13 guess, Mr. Gallagher, if the question was if EAS is

14 denied after this hearing would there ever be another

15 opportunity for it?

16 MR. GALLAGHER: Yes.

17 COMMISSIONER SMITH: Let me just answer in

18 terms of my experience with a similar, with the

19 Eden/Hazelton case who over a period of 20 years they

20 petitioned, I think, three times and finally they got it

21 on the third time, but I would say that if it was denied

22 here, it won't be considered again for many years, so if

23 you don't get it now, you're looking at five, six years,

24 maybe more before it gets considered again. That would

25 be my guess based on the Commission's case load and the

17

CSB REPORTING HALL (X)
Wilder, Idaho 83676 Staff

1 15 other EAS cases that are ahead of you, that would be

2 ahead of you, if you went to the back of the queue with a

3 new petition.

4 MR. GALLAGHER: I see. Thank you.

5 COMMISSIONER HANSEN: Thank you,

6 Commissioner Smith, and I might mention that we have some

7 areas that have been on the waiting list for over three

8 years.

9 Okay, thank you for your testimony.

10 (The witness left the stand.)

11 COMMISSIONER HANSEN: We'll start now --

12 AUDIENCE: I have a question.

13 COMMISSIONER HANSEN: This hearing is run

14 in that you need to sign up, we do not take questions

15 from the audience, we do not answers questions from the

16 Bench. You're here to make a statement. If you want to

17 make a statement, you sign up, you can come up and you

18 can make your statement. The only people here that can

19 ask a witness a question are those that have filed and

20 been granted intervening status.

21 Now, we will take a break, as

22 Commissioner Smith just made me aware, we'll take a break

23 and at that time during our break if you would like to

24 ask the phone company or the Staff or anyone questions

25 concerning matters, they will be here to answer those

18

CSB REPORTING HALL (X)
Wilder, Idaho 83676 Staff

1 questions.

2 Okay, and I might mention to you people

3 here this evening, it is critical if you have an opinion

4 to sign up and make a statement, because if you're for it

5 or against it and you don't come forward and make a

6 statement, we're going to have to make our decision on

7 what is in the record and what will be in the record is

8 those that make the statement, so whether you're for or

9 against, it's critical you come forward and make your

10 statement here this evening, so we'll start out with the

11 sheet and the first person to sign up is Mr. Patrick

12 Gallagher.

13

14 PATRICK GALLAGHER,

15 appearing as a public witness, having been first duly

16 sworn, testified as follows:

17

18 EXAMINATION

19

20 BY MR. HOWELL:

21 Q Mr. Gallagher, would you state your name

22 and spell your last for the record, please?

23 A Patrick G-a-l-l-a-g-h-e-r.

24 Q And, sir, in what city do you reside?

25 A In Victor.

19

CSB REPORTING GALLAGHER
Wilder, Idaho 83676 Public

1 Q And your address?

2 A P.O. Box 155.

3 Q And do you have a statement you'd like to

4 present tonight?

5 A Yes, I'd like to say greetings and good

6 evening and thanks to everyone for showing up and the

7 IPUC for having this meeting. As I said, my name is

8 Patrick Gallagher and I'm the chairman for the Coalition

9 for Fair Utility Rates, better known as COFFURs, and we

10 at the coalition are against the cost of this EAS for

11 basically these reasons, and I'm going to try to be

12 brief. I took six pages and made this out of it

13 [indicating].

14 I've believed from the beginning that there

15 are no savings involved with this EAS, that basically the

16 motto of this EAS is we cheat the other guy and pass the

17 savings on to you. If this were such a good deal and

18 there were actual savings, it could be made optional and

19 you'd be a fool not to sign up for it, but it's not

20 optional, it's mandatory. You have to sign up for it and

21 the reason you would have to sign up for it if it's

22 passed is because you have to take money from some people

23 to pay the other people's phone bills, and I guess if

24 you're you in that we cheat the other guy and pass the

25 savings on to you, that's great, but if you're the other

20

CSB REPORTING GALLAGHER
Wilder, Idaho 83676 Public

1 guy, it sort of stinks.

2 Our two options, the two options that we've

3 been given, are not options at all. They're sort of like

4 saying we can pay through one nostril or we can pay

5 through the other nostril, but either way we're going to

6 pay through the nose. This 90-minute residential calling

7 option works out to three minutes a day. After three

8 minutes you're actually paying a toll for a toll free

9 call and I just envision in my warped way a little old

10 lady sitting down at the gas station using the pay phone

11 because you can talk on the pay phone for 35 cents all

12 day long. I mean, why does it cost more to use your home

13 phone if you use this measured rate?

14 I think, really, if the -- there's a lot of

15 other things. It really strikes me as an irony that

16 Teton Telecom has an agreement with U S WEST that says

17 they can't raise rates for the three years of the buying

18 or the purchase. I thought it was more like 18 months

19 left, I really did. I learned tonight that it's closer

20 to a year. If this EAS goes through, there's no

21 extension on that, no extension of the rate freeze. It's

22 going to be about the same amount of time, so in the

23 spring of next year, we could be set up for another rate

24 increase.

25 What's interesting is that, and this is

21

CSB REPORTING GALLAGHER
Wilder, Idaho 83676 Public

1 just my impression, but because these rates are fixed,

2 basically the only way to generate more revenue for Teton

3 Telecom is by a voter-initiated petition and then they

4 can say, hey, these people want this and then we can

5 double everybody's base phone rates a year sooner than we

6 could have raised them, pretty interesting, and the deal

7 with the EAS is you don't have to want it, you don't have

8 to need it, you don't have to use it, but you do have to

9 pay for it and I just, these aren't options.

10 A real option is make the EAS optional. If

11 the EAS is optional, we don't need these meetings, we

12 don't need fax machines, we don't need lawyers, we don't

13 need these wonderful men in suits. All we need is the

14 freedom to choose. We could choose whether we want this

15 or not. We can choose if we make lots of calls, yeah,

16 that's cool. Those people are happy. The people that

17 don't want it, they won't do it.

18 I'm saying this publicly, they will not

19 make this EAS optional. Why? Because you've got to

20 screw somebody out of money to make this work. That's

21 basically what it amounts to. I don't want to be the

22 other guy. I don't know why -- if the majority of the

23 people really want this, you know, the expression build a

24 better mousetrap, the world will beat a path to your

25 door, if that's true, if this EAS is such a good deal,

22

CSB REPORTING GALLAGHER
Wilder, Idaho 83676 Public

1 making it optional, well, everybody would be a fool not

2 to sign up.

3 They won't make it optional, I'll guarantee

4 you and they won't even make it a ballot issue. You know

5 how they send this nice little newsletter that basically

6 has no real information in it, but they send that out all

7 the time, I think they could send out a ballot. If the

8 majority of the people really want this EAS, why not have

9 a ballot. I think it would be a better way to gauge, a

10 better barometer of what the will of the people in this

11 valley want. If the will of the people of this valley

12 are for it by a majority, I'll back off, but I want it to

13 be fair. I don't want it to be a decision by

14 misinformation and I think there's been a lot of

15 misinformation.

16 I think the whole idea of how it works has

17 been misled. I think this wonderful statement, the last

18 one was maybe, possibly there might be a rate increase in

19 the future -- oh, previous to, I'm sorry, April 24th that

20 you just read this evening. The previous news release

21 was maybe, possibly there might be a rate increase in the

22 future. Maybe the barnyard stinks. I think rates are

23 going to go up anyways. I mean, I think the only thing

24 in my life that goes down are the prices of computers and

25 that's because they're disposable. Everything is going

23

CSB REPORTING GALLAGHER
Wilder, Idaho 83676 Public

1 to go up.

2 If this EAS came with a 10-year guarantee

3 that rates aren't going to go up, yeah, okay, but it

4 doesn't even come with that. I mean, I just can't see

5 the benefit, not the benefit for the majority of the

6 people in the valley, just strictly economics. The way

7 it works is cost averaging. You've got to steal from

8 somebody to pay the other guy. If it works a different

9 way, correct me. It's public, I'll admit I'm wrong.

10 I don't think I am, and I think lastly, I

11 really, I took six pages into this, I think Teton Telecom

12 must be scared to give people the freedom to choose what

13 they want, because if they have the freedom to choose, if

14 it's really revenue neutral, how can these guys lose if

15 it's revenue neutral. You know, I mean, there's probably

16 some great statistics and they hire wonderful people to

17 do all these things, but really, if it's revenue neutral,

18 make it optional. How can you lose if it's revenue

19 neutral, because it's not revenue neutral, I don't

20 believe.

21 I think people should be given the freedom

22 to choose whether they want this EAS on an individual

23 basis. It makes sense to me. It keeps the people who

24 want it happy, it keeps the people who don't want it

25 happy. They won't do it. It's too simple a solution.

24

CSB REPORTING GALLAGHER
Wilder, Idaho 83676 Public

1 That's all I have to say. Thank you.

2 COMMISSIONER HANSEN: Thank you. Let's see

3 if we have any questions for Mr. Gallagher.

4 Yes, Mr. McClure.

5 MR. McCLURE: Yes, sir. Thank you.

6

7 CROSS-EXAMINATION

8

9 BY MR. McCLURE:

10 Q Mr. Gallagher, you are aware that this

11 proceeding was not initiated by Teton Telecom, are you

12 not?

13 A Yes.

14 Q You are aware --

15 A It was a voter-initiated petition.

16 Q You're aware that more than 500 of your

17 neighbors asked the Commission to order this rate?

18 (Audience clapping.)

19 COMMISSIONER HANSEN: I'd ask you to please

20 hold your applause. We need to have order. I'd ask you

21 please not to applaud. Thank you.

22 AUDIENCE: That's our opinion.

23 MR. McCLURE: No further questions.

24 COMMISSIONER HANSEN: Okay, Mr. Howell.

25 MR. HOWELL: No questions.

25

CSB REPORTING GALLAGHER (X)
Wilder, Idaho 83676 Public

1 COMMISSIONER HANSEN: Commissioner Smith.

2 COMMISSIONER SMITH: No questions.

3 COMMISSIONER HANSEN: I have one question.

4 THE WITNESS: Yes, sir.

5

6 EXAMINATION

7

8 BY COMMISSIONER HANSEN:

9 Q If what Mr. Hoopes stated was to happen and

10 after the freeze in March of '99, if he was to apply and

11 try to get Idaho Universal Service Funding for this area

12 and he said he would have to raise rates 125 percent

13 above the statewide average, which would bring it in the

14 neighborhood of about $22.00, my question is to you,

15 would you prefer to pay the $22.00 and not have EAS or

16 would you prefer to pay the $24.10 and have extended area

17 calling?

18 A Very interesting question. I have trouble

19 answering it only because if the EAS were made an

20 option --

21 Q Let's say it was not made optional. Let's

22 say that right now you either have a choice a year from

23 now of paying over $22.00 for your local service if he's

24 successful in getting what he desires, and I don't know

25 that he will, but if he is and the other rural areas are

26

CSB REPORTING GALLAGHER (Com)
Wilder, Idaho 83676 Public

1 on it so there's a strong likelihood he could, if that

2 was to happen versus the proposal now of expanded area

3 service at 24.10 giving up the rate freeze for one year

4 because you'd go up a year sooner, plus you would pay a

5 couple or $3.00 more for the extended area, how would you

6 vote right now? Would you be for it or against it?

7 A Wording the question the way you have makes

8 it difficult, but I would say that I would not be for it.

9 COMMISSIONER HANSEN: Okay, thank you.

10 THE WITNESS: Thank you.

11 COMMISSIONER HANSEN: Okay, we appreciate

12 your testimony.

13 MR. GALLAGHER: Thank you, sir.

14 (The witness left the stand.)

15 COMMISSIONER HANSEN: I've been asked, we

16 have an individual that has to leave, has another

17 appointment, we don't do it often, but I will drop down

18 the list and call Mr. Ken Nielsen and then we'll go back

19 and try and stay in order.

20

21

22

23

24

25

27

CSB REPORTING GALLAGHER (Com)
Wilder, Idaho 83676 Public

1 KENNETH NIELSEN,

2 appearing as a public witness, having been first duly

3 sworn, testified as follows:

4

5 EXAMINATION

6

7 BY MR. HOWELL:

8 Q Mr. Nielsen, will you state your full name

9 and state your last name for the record, please?

10 A Kenneth Nielsen, N-i-e-l-s-e-n.

11 Q And, sir, what is your address?

12 A Post Office Box 91, Driggs, Idaho.

13 Q And do you have a statement you'd like to

14 provide tonight?

15 A Yes, I do.

16 Q Please go ahead.

17 A I'm somebody that's on a fixed income and

18 looking over everything with this EAS, it looks to me

19 like my telephone bill is just going to skyrocket, so I

20 have some fears that I'm going to have to have the

21 telephone taken out if this happens and so I am just

22 totally opposed to this.

23 COMMISSIONER HANSEN: Is that your

24 statement?

25 THE WITNESS: That is my statement, but

28

CSB REPORTING NIELSEN
Wilder, Idaho 83676 Public

1 if --

2 COMMISSIONER HANSEN: If you'd like to

3 continue, go on.

4 THE WITNESS: Could I make a comment on a

5 question that you asked? If I had the choice tonight as

6 to whether to vote for the EAS or to vote against it, I

7 would be against it.

8 COMMISSIONER HANSEN: Thank you. Let's see

9 if we have any questions for Mr. Nielsen.

10 Mr. Howell?

11

12 CROSS-EXAMINATION

13

14 BY MR. HOWELL:

15 Q Mr. Nielsen, how much is your monthly

16 telephone bill now?

17 A It runs usually between 50 and $60.00 a

18 month.

19 Q And so of that 50 or $60.00, is about 35 to

20 $55.00 toll charges?

21 A About 30 of it is out-of-state long

22 distance calls.

23 Q So how much in-state long distance would

24 you have?

25 A I probably only make about two calls a year

29

CSB REPORTING NIELSEN (X)
Wilder, Idaho 83676 Public

1 to Idaho Falls and other than that, I don't call inside

2 the State of Idaho.

3 Q And would a rate of $16.00 or a 10.50

4 credit if you were eligible for a low income, would those

5 be of any interest to you?

6 A If they drop the 90 minutes of free charges

7 before you had a rate charge.

8 MR. HOWELL: Thank you, sir.

9 COMMISSIONER HANSEN: Commissioner Smith.

10

11 EXAMINATION

12

13 BY COMMISSIONER SMITH:

14 Q I'm just confused, Mr. Nielsen. I'm right

15 here. If you only make two calls to Idaho Falls, then

16 why is the 90 minutes a concern?

17 A I make a lot of calls locally here in the

18 Driggs, Victor, Tetonia area.

19 Q Okay; so your concern would be cutting off

20 your local calling?

21 A Yes, very much. I think at least the way

22 the whole telephone system is set up in the United States

23 and has been, most people have a local area that they can

24 call free of charge. I see this totally doing away with

25 that.

30

CSB REPORTING NIELSEN (Com)
Wilder, Idaho 83676 Public

1 COMMISSIONER SMITH: Well, don't move to

2 Long Island or Chicago where all service is measured.

3 Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

4 COMMISSIONER HANSEN: Thank you for your

5 testimony.

6 (The witness left the stand.)

7 COMMISSIONER HANSEN: The next person we

8 have signed up is David McCoy.

9

10 DAVID McCOY,

11 appearing as a public witness, having been first duly

12 sworn, testified as follows:

13

14 EXAMINATION

15

16 BY MR. HOWELL:

17 Q Mr. McCoy, could you state your full name

18 and spell your last for the record?

19 A My name is David B. McCoy. I live at

20 P.O. Box 224, that's my address, Victor, Idaho, 83455.

21 Q And do you have a statement you'd like to

22 give tonight?

23 A Yes, I do. I believe the PUC has framed an

24 unreasonably limited issue for this public hearing in

25 light of the public misinformation and due process

31

CSB REPORTING McCOY
Wilder, Idaho 83676 Public

1 violations surrounding this EAS application. The EAS

2 application should be reviewed de novo. Willingness to

3 pay increased rates should only be considered in the

4 larger context of what actual costs will be for the

5 consumer based on various assumptions. Yet, these cost

6 scenarios and assumptions have never been furnished to

7 the public to allow public consideration of what

8 realistic, justifiable costs will be under the EAS

9 proposal.

10 The PUC polling of public opinion by having

11 persons stand up and sit down with the presentation of

12 arbitrary cost figures is a ridiculous methodology that

13 more resembles determining the winning football team at a

14 game by observing which team has the loudest cheering

15 section. Relying on the cheering sections at a public

16 hearing of those in favor or in opposition to the EAS

17 cannot be considered evidence of a type generally relied

18 upon by prudent persons in the conduct of their affairs.

19 This kind of evidence is irrelevant. With

20 a Teton Valley customer base of 3,000 persons, how can

21 the PUC make anything but a travesty of a ruling on this

22 EAS petition by counting the heads of persons at various

23 price levels, persons who have not had the opportunity to

24 be presented with legitimate factual information? Why

25 can't the members of the public be allowed to review for

32

CSB REPORTING McCOY
Wilder, Idaho 83676 Public

1 themselves what a legitimate cost for the service

2 provided would actually be after presentation and

3 consideration of the facts?

4 We heard this evening for the first time

5 that the new evidence for the stipulation and settlement

6 and the increased costs there was a sale of properties

7 and purchase of Teton Telecom requiring new rates by

8 Teton Telecom. I think there's more efficient ways to

9 find out what the public would like. I like to think of

10 the voter's pamphlet, where facts are laid out by an

11 independent party and then various constituents can argue

12 the pros and cons of the proposal. Nothing like that has

13 happened in this proceeding. Teton Telecom could send

14 out a questionnaire agreed upon by Staff, parties and

15 intervenors to poll the customer base or an independent

16 market research firm could create a survey. That would

17 go a long way toward reversing the misinformation, lack

18 of information and outright concealment of information by

19 Teton Telecom and the PUC Staff.

20 I am personally unwilling to pay a monthly

21 increase of 16.26, my phone bill, to 24.10 plus other

22 costs which will put it at around $31.00. Superficially,

23 the increase represents a 48 percent increase in the base

24 price for residential service. However, when one tries

25 to compare the rate for EAS as against the remaining

33

CSB REPORTING McCOY
Wilder, Idaho 83676 Public

1 option of measured service rate at $16.00 per month for

2 90 minutes calling within the extended dialing area, the

3 public is being forced to pay EAS rates at gunpoint.

4 The cost increase is dramatic for the

5 measured service rate brought on by the EAS structure.

6 One would be charged $.18 per minute for local calls

7 within the current local calling area. Spending $.35 for

8 a local public pay phone call of two minutes seems like a

9 cheaper alternative than the measured alternative rate.

10 A customer without EAS currently paying 16.26 for local

11 service could use the telephone for 43,200 minutes for a

12 30-day month, that's currently. Currently the charge for

13 residential local calls is approximately $.0004 per

14 minute. Thus, the increase in cost for local calls from

15 $.0004 to $.18 per minute is approximately a 48,000

16 percent increase.

17 There's been no real public factual

18 discussion of how many calls the average customer makes

19 now to the EAS areas and what the costs of those calls

20 are so a customer could actually look at his bill and

21 figure out what savings might or might not be generated.

22 There's been no discussion of formula used

23 to determine the mix between residential and business

24 rates. Why is it fair, for example, that it's $24.00 or

25 $42.00? What's the facts that's been presented to

34

CSB REPORTING McCOY
Wilder, Idaho 83676 Public

1 anybody in this by any party to this proceeding? There's

2 been no discussion on why the public shouldn't be able to

3 have measured rate service on one line and EAS rate on a

4 second line. That decision was made out of the blue.

5 What is the justification for the increased

6 costs in the proposed EAS? Initially, we were informed

7 it was going to be 17.51, now it's up to 24.10. Teton

8 Telecom didn't inform its customers in these proceedings

9 that there would be a residual revenue requirement, the

10 potential shortfall, of from 61,500 to 200,000 which it

11 hoped to make up by receiving funds from the Universal

12 Service Fund. We didn't learn about that in November, we

13 learned about it in February.

14 Did Teton Telecom throw darts at a board or

15 what to come up with two figures differing by almost

16 $139,000 for possible residual revenue requirements? The

17 public is now being asked to swallow huge price increases

18 which went from an initial estimate of $1.25 up to $7.84

19 for residential. That's only a 520 percent error in

20 calculation, folks.

21 Once again, at this May 5th meeting, the

22 public is not allowed to probe the cost assumptions to

23 try to determine what the increases were based upon. If

24 you call up the PUC Staff and ask what their cost

25 assumptions were based on, you're going to be told that

35

CSB REPORTING McCOY
Wilder, Idaho 83676 Public

1 this is proprietary information; in other words, all

2 these decisions --

3 MR. HOWELL: Mr. Chairman, I'm going to

4 object to this testimony. I, unfortunately, seldom ever

5 object to a public witness' testimony, but I believe the

6 issue in the case here tonight is the affordability and

7 the willingness of customers to pay this rate. What

8 Mr. McCoy seems to be providing testimony on, public

9 testimony, is the costs involved. If I recollect your

10 caution at the beginning of the hearing, this hearing

11 isn't about costs. It's about the ability of customers

12 to pay those rates.

13 COMMISSIONER HANSEN: Mr. McCoy, I'd ask

14 you to --

15 THE WITNESS: May I respond to that

16 objection, Mr. Commissioner?

17 COMMISSIONER HANSEN: Go ahead.

18 THE WITNESS: The ability to pay these

19 rates is based upon the costs and one should be able to

20 probe what those costs are and how they came about and no

21 one in this proceeding, no member of the public has been

22 able to see what the reason behind these costs is, so how

23 can we know if we're willing to pay for something. When

24 I pay for something, I look at what I'm getting for value

25 paid.

36

CSB REPORTING McCOY
Wilder, Idaho 83676 Public

1 MR. HOWELL: Mr. Chairman, I'd renew my

2 objection. People have, private parties as well as any

3 individual has, been able to intervene in this case since

4 well before November of last year. The Commission's

5 rules of intervention are published, they're available in

6 every law library and, in fact, as the Commission well

7 knows, Mr. Gallagher has been granted intervention as

8 recently as Friday and so I would renew my objection to

9 any testimony being received about costs.

10 (Audience clapping.)

11 COMMISSIONER HANSEN: Mr. McCoy, I'm going

12 to deny that objection right now in that I will let your

13 testimony stand, but I would ask that you keep your

14 testimony based on regarding the customers' willingness

15 to pay the proposed rate and not to expand to other

16 issues. As I mentioned earlier, there will be

17 opportunity given to you later possibly to expand into

18 those other areas, but not here tonight. You can

19 continue on.

20 THE WITNESS: One can only fear that when

21 Teton Telecom seeks rate relief in the spring of 1999,

22 the requested relief will be massive. The public has not

23 been adequately informed of the future potential rate

24 increases that will be linked to the EAS cost structure,

25 so how can anyone really analyze if they're willing to

37

CSB REPORTING McCOY
Wilder, Idaho 83676 Public

1 accept the new EAS rates in the context of the future

2 plans of the phone company?

3 The customers have never been informed of

4 what, if any, credit Teton Telecom should give its

5 customers in consideration for getting out of its

6 agreement to freeze costs for customers in the wake of

7 its purchase agreement from U S WEST.

8 Additionally, U S WEST, as I understand it,

9 appears to be disgruntled about lost toll revenue. If

10 U S WEST pursues PUC or if U S WEST sues PUC and Teton

11 Telecom/Silver Star and receives a recovery, what is the

12 potential cost of that recovery to either the telephone

13 customers of Teton Telecom --

14 COMMISSIONER HANSEN: Mr. McCoy, I'd have

15 to interrupt your testimony here. We have another case

16 that's in regard to that issue and you'll have an

17 opportunity to respond as we have hearings on that case,

18 so that is not part of this case.

19 THE WITNESS: Well, I just think it's going

20 to figure into --

21 COMMISSIONER HANSEN: Well, I'll have to

22 rule you out of order in this area, so you'll have to

23 continue on in a different manner, sir, and please hold

24 the applause.

25 AUDIENCE: Let me speak.

38

CSB REPORTING McCOY
Wilder, Idaho 83676 Public

1 THE WITNESS: I'm more than happy with -- I

2 have the floor, sir.

3 COMMISSIONER HANSEN: Sir, will you please

4 sit down? We will have order here and we're going to

5 respect the people that are giving testimony here this

6 evening whether we agree or not, but we are going to stay

7 on the subject matter as I said when we started the

8 hearing and we will follow an orderly hearing and we will

9 stick to the case and the subject.

10 Mr. McCoy, now, you can continue.

11 THE WITNESS: Thank you. Whether you agree

12 with me or disagree with me, it doesn't matter to me one

13 way or the other, particularly. The concern that I have

14 here is basically that all of us, whether you agree or

15 disagree, haven't received any facts as to what these

16 costs are based on. No range of figures were provided to

17 the public which discussed the pricing options based on

18 the various assumptions. The PUC Staff hasn't informed

19 the public of the situation.

20 The November, '97 public meeting went ahead

21 with all its erroneous information and support for the

22 EAS was garnered on the basis of totally unrealistic

23 calculations. At this May 5th meeting, the PUC and Teton

24 Telecom are still playing hide the ball with the public

25 because the public doesn't know any more now than it did

39

CSB REPORTING McCOY
Wilder, Idaho 83676 Public

1 in November of 1997.

2 In order to avoid an arbitrary and

3 capricious decision in this matter, due process means

4 that the opportunity for meaningful discussion must be

5 provided. To date, discussion has been short on facts

6 and long on hype from Teton Telecom and the PUC Staff.

7 The choice in this matter must be based on informed

8 consent. Thank you.

9 COMMISSIONER HANSEN: Let's see if we have

10 any questions for Mr. McCoy.

11 MR. McCLURE: No questions.

12 MR. HOWELL: No questions.

13 COMMISSIONER HANSEN: Commissioner Smith.

14 COMMISSIONER SMITH: I don't. Thank you.

15 COMMISSIONER HANSEN: Neither do I. Thank

16 you for your testimony.

17 (The witness left the stand.)

18 COMMISSIONER HANSEN: We now have Hugh

19 Shane.

20

21

22

23

24

25

40

CSB REPORTING McCOY
Wilder, Idaho 83676 Public

1 HUGH SHANE,

2 appearing as a public witness, having been first duly

3 sworn, testified as follows:

4

5 EXAMINATION

6

7 BY MR. HOWELL:

8 Q Could you state your name and spell your

9 last name?

10 A My name is Hugh Shane. That's S-h-a-n-e.

11 My address is 119 Fisher Road and that's in Tetonia,

12 83452.

13 Q Go ahead, sir.

14 A Well, I think EAS stinks. It takes money

15 out of my pocket, puts it into yours. I've got a

16 business that has a bunch of incoming phone lines. It's

17 going to cost me thousands of dollars a year more to run

18 it. I'll have to relocate it, I can deal with that, but

19 not everybody else has that option, so this seems wrong

20 to me; however, now we have this new piece of information

21 that comes to us kind of at the last minute, oh, well,

22 rates are going to go up anyway, so what the heck, let's

23 get EAS.

24 Well, if that's true, then we'd be fools to

25 turn EAS down, but right now I don't know what the truth

41

CSB REPORTING SHANE
Wilder, Idaho 83676 Public

1 is. I don't know who to believe. The gentleman who

2 spoke before me said we haven't been presented with

3 information. We get propaganda in the mail, we get

4 flyers from Teton Telecom saying EAS is a done deal

5 before the Commission has even announced its decision.

6 You know, it's a propaganda campaign. I don't know what

7 to believe, so if rates are going to go up and there's a

8 cap at 125 percent of the statewide average, then I have

9 to say, well, we'd be foolish to reject EAS, but I

10 realize that some people are still going to be hurt by

11 it. The gentleman who spoke earlier who is on a fixed

12 income, this is not going to be good for him, but I have

13 to say under those circumstances, I'd accept EAS, but I

14 don't know what the truth is and that's a real problem

15 that we all have in here.

16 COMMISSIONER HANSEN: Thank you,

17 Mr. Shane. We'll see if we have any questions.

18 Commissioner Smith?

19

20 EXAMINATION

21

22 BY COMMISSIONER SMITH:

23 Q I guess I was just curious, Mr. Shane,

24 about your business lines and how many you had and is

25 this mostly you calling out on them or customers calling

42

CSB REPORTING SHANE (Com)
Wilder, Idaho 83676 Public

1 in?

2 A These are strictly incoming. No outgoing

3 calls are placed on these lines at all. It's absurd. In

4 fact, I'll be subsidizing access to my competition.

5 Q And what is the nature of the business?

6 A It's an Internet access business.

7 COMMISSIONER SMITH: I see. Okay, thank

8 you very much.

9 COMMISSIONER HANSEN: Thank you for your

10 testimony.

11 THE WITNESS: Thank you.

12 (The witness left the stand.)

13 COMMISSIONER HANSEN: I believe this is Pat

14 Flaherty. I hope I got that right.

15

16 PATRICK FLAHERTY,

17 appearing as a public witness, having been first duly

18 sworn, testified as follows:

19

20 THE WITNESS: My name is Patrick Flaherty.

21 I live at 788 South 450 West in Victor.

22 COMMISSIONER SMITH: Could you spell your

23 last name?

24 THE WITNESS: F-l-a-h-e-r-t-y.

25 COMMISSIONER SMITH: Thank you.

43

CSB REPORTING FLAHERTY
Wilder, Idaho 83676 Public

1 THE WITNESS: With regard to this extended

2 area service, I'm one of those who is not willing to pay

3 for that product at the rates that have been proposed and

4 approved. I am one of those who the proposed option for

5 residential customers who do not use their phones

6 extensively does not apply. I use my phone extensively

7 and I very rarely call outside Teton Valley that it's not

8 an out-of-state long distance call, so I see this as a

9 substantial increase in the basic rate that provides no

10 benefit to me.

11 I think it would be interesting to see this

12 product offered as are other such products like call

13 waiting, voice mail services and that sort of thing.

14 That's my testimony.

15 COMMISSIONER HANSEN: Let's see, do we have

16 any questions? Yes, Mr. Gallagher.

17 MR. GALLAGHER: Thank you.

18

19 CROSS-EXAMINATION

20

21 BY MR. GALLAGHER:

22 Q As I understand it, what you're saying is

23 that you would like to see EAS as an option similar to

24 call waiting or call forwarding or something like that?

25 A Well, it certainly looks like it might be

44

CSB REPORTING FLAHERTY (X)
Wilder, Idaho 83676 Public

1 an attractive product to some users but not to all.

2 MR. GALLAGHER: Thank you.

3 COMMISSIONER HANSEN: We have no other

4 questions?

5 Thank you for your testimony.

6 (The witness left the stand.)

7 COMMISSIONER HANSEN: We now have, I

8 believe it's, Harry Niendorf.

9 MR. NIENDORF: I would like to decline.

10 Mr. McCoy's remarks, I agree with him wholly, 100

11 percent.

12 COMMISSIONER HANSEN: And then we have

13 Belle? You would like to decline?

14 MRS. NIENDORF: Same.

15 COMMISSIONER HANSEN: L. G. Bolton.

16 MR. BOLTON: I'd like to relinquish my time

17 as my objections have already been well versed.

18 COMMISSIONER HANSEN: And I think the one

19 initial is A. Bolton-Lewis.

20

21

22

23

24

25

45

CSB REPORTING FLAHERTY (X)
Wilder, Idaho 83676 Public

1 LEANN BOLTON-LEWIS,

2 appearing as a public witness, having been first duly

3 sworn, testified as follows:

4

5 EXAMINATION

6

7 BY MR. HOWELL:

8 Q Could you state your name and spell your

9 last for the record, please?

10 A LeAnn Bolton-Lewis, B-o-l-t-o-n-L-e-w-i-s.

11 Q And your address, please, ma'am?

12 A P.O. Box 617, Driggs, Idaho, 83422.

13 Q And do you have a statement?

14 A Basically, I feel that I'm just real

15 confused and I originally thought this whole plan would

16 be real nice for everybody, but I didn't know that we

17 would have to have toll charges to call our neighbors and

18 my family and it would probably break me to call my

19 parents every day. You know, if I don't get to see them

20 every day, we talk extensively on the phone. I work with

21 the schools and I'm in Driggs, they're in Victor and with

22 the Scouts in Tetonia, I would be racking up all these

23 toll charges.

24 Can you all hear? I do believe that,

25 again, if it was maybe an option or if we were able to

46

CSB REPORTING BOLTON-LEWIS
Wilder, Idaho 83676 Public

1 keep Teton Valley so that we could still call our

2 neighbors and our friends rather than be charged for this

3 call, it might be worth it and I also feel that a lot of

4 folks that are shut in their homes will not be able to --

5 their only access to other human beings are on the phone

6 and they're not going to be able to afford it.

7 I think the consumer should have a right to

8 choose where, how he pays for his phone charges. There

9 are other options out there. With your $.03 per minute

10 after our basic fee, I figured out that every hour would

11 be almost $2.00 an hour to call. Now, I just basically

12 think this is a lot of money to pay for our friends and

13 our neighbors and our family within the area and I think

14 there are other options out there for long distance to

15 Idaho Falls or Rexburg, like any other toll call, or if

16 Teton Valley could be left alone or different options; if

17 you want that extended service, to get it and if you

18 don't, you don't have to sign up.

19 COMMISSIONER HANSEN: Is that your

20 testimony?

21 THE WITNESS: I believe it is.

22 COMMISSIONER HANSEN: Let's see if we have

23 any questions.

24 Mr. Howell.

25

47

CSB REPORTING BOLTON-LEWIS
Wilder, Idaho 83676 Public

1 CROSS-EXAMINATION

2

3 BY MR. HOWELL:

4 Q Ma'am, I'm unclear. Do you understand if

5 you subscribe to the EAS that you could call your mother

6 in Victor without a toll charge?

7 A But for only 90 minutes a month.

8 Q No. Under the proposal for $24.10 a month,

9 you could call as much as you want to every exchange in

10 the U S WEST local calling region which stretches all the

11 way down to Paris as well as Victor or Wayan, Driggs,

12 Idaho Falls, Rexburg and I could go on and on, those

13 would be without toll charges.

14 A But that's still double what I pay right

15 now.

16 MR. GALLAGHER: That's true.

17 Q BY MR. HOWELL: I just wanted to be sure I

18 understood your testimony.

19 A And, see, originally I didn't know it was

20 going to be double. I forgot to tack on all the little

21 extras that are never explained and personally, I can't

22 afford all the little extras.

23 Q Do you make a lot of telephone calls now

24 outside the valley in state?

25 A Not too many and I have an extra or one of

48

CSB REPORTING BOLTON-LEWIS (X)
Wilder, Idaho 83676 Public

1 the subscribed long distance carriers which you can get

2 for $.10 a minute at any time of day or some are $.05 a

3 minute, but I believe that each individual has to

4 investigate those options rather than being --

5 Q And who is your long distance carrier?

6 A Excel.

7 MR. HOWELL: No further questions. Thank

8 you.

9 THE WITNESS: Thank you.

10 COMMISSIONER HANSEN: Do you have any

11 questions?

12 COMMISSIONER SMITH: No.

13 COMMISSIONER HANSEN: I believe I have one

14 question, ma'am.

15

16 EXAMINATION

17

18 BY COMMISSIONER HANSEN:

19 Q A question I asked earlier, if Mr. Hoopes

20 is correct and a year from now the local rate was over

21 $20.00, approximately 22, would you still prefer to not

22 have EAS at 2, 3 or $4.00 more a month and prefer to have

23 the lower rate at $22.00 rather than to pay 24, 25 to

24 include EAS?

25 A The 2 or $3.00 increase, this is a year

49

CSB REPORTING BOLTON-LEWIS (Com)
Wilder, Idaho 83676 Public

1 from now if we go on EAS today?

2 Q Mr. Hoopes has said approximately a year

3 from now he would be trying to get this area under

4 Universal Service Funding which he would have to raise

5 the rates up to qualify for the funding and that would be

6 approximately $22.00 a month, but you'd only be able to

7 call here in the valley like you do now. Would you

8 prefer to have that rate or would you prefer to pay an

9 extra 2 or $3.00, the 24, 25, whatever for the extended

10 area calling or would you still prefer to have the lower

11 rate and just call in the valley?

12 A At this point in time I believe I would

13 prefer to keep things the way they are and if we go for

14 the higher rate next year, I would probably consider a

15 cell phone that I have investigated and for a flat fee

16 you can call anywhere you want and between six and eight

17 states for, like, $30.00 a month.

18 COMMISSIONER HANSEN: Okay, thank you.

19 THE WITNESS: And I would probably have to

20 cancel telephone service.

21 COMMISSIONER HANSEN: Thank you for your

22 testimony.

23 (The witness left the stand.)

24 COMMISSIONER HANSEN: We now have Fred

25 Liebenthal.

50

CSB REPORTING BOLTON-LEWIS (Com)
Wilder, Idaho 83676 Public

1 MS. LIEBENTHAL: Liebenthal?

2 COMMISSIONER HANSEN: You're Jean?

3 MS. LIEBENTHAL: Jean Liebenthal.

4 COMMISSIONER HANSEN: Okay. Well, come

5 forward.

6

7 JEAN LIEBENTHAL,

8 appearing as a public witness, having been first duly

9 sworn, testified as follows:

10

11 EXAMINATION

12

13 BY MR. HOWELL:

14 Q I need your name and address for the

15 record.

16 A My name is Jean Liebenthal,

17 L-i-e-b-e-n-t-h-a-l. My address is P.O. Box 529, Victor,

18 Idaho.

19 Q Thank you.

20 A I think I'm quite well-informed about all

21 of this and it would be to my advantage to have this

22 EAS. I think it's from my viewpoint and for my purposes

23 a reasonable rate and I am in favor of it and I like your

24 suits, and I really don't think I have very much more to

25 say, except that I, too, have family and I have quite a

51

CSB REPORTING LIEBENTHAL
Wilder, Idaho 83676 Public

1 number of family in the area in question and it would

2 save me about 35 or $40.00 a month I have figured, so if

3 there are any questions, I'd be glad to answer them.

4 That's my statement.

5 COMMISSIONER HANSEN: Do we have any

6 questions?

7 Thank you for your testimony.

8 (The witness left the stand.)

9 COMMISSIONER HANSEN: We now have David

10 Kearsley.

11

12 DAVID KEARSLEY,

13 appearing as a public witness, having been first duly

14 sworn, testified as follows:

15

16 EXAMINATION

17

18 BY MR. HOWELL:

19 Q Sir, I need your name and spell your last

20 for the record and your address.

21 A My name is David Kearsley,

22 K-e-a-r-s-l-e-y. My address is Post Office Box 341,

23 Victor, Idaho. I guess I might speak in behalf of myself

24 personally as well as a business here in Driggs. In all

25 those cases, and we do have four telephones at the

52

CSB REPORTING KEARSLEY
Wilder, Idaho 83676 Public

1 business here in Driggs, the proposed rates would be a

2 considerable savings for each of those lines in Driggs

3 because we do a lot of our business in the lower valley.

4 Also, it would be a considerable savings

5 for me personally and my household and the phone that we

6 have there, so I feel like the proposed rates are

7 something that would be a benefit and I am in favor of

8 that. As I've listened tonight and some of the new

9 things that have been brought up, I think it would help

10 if we had some clarifications. I agree with some of the

11 prior testimony that all information hasn't been given to

12 us.

13 I know that these proposed rates will

14 affect many people who are on fixed incomes. There are a

15 lot of people who deal primarily in Jackson and other

16 areas in the valley who won't benefit from the service.

17 I think maybe as we break if anybody could find out what

18 the income level for the credit, the 10.50, where that

19 break is. Some of those people who have concerns who are

20 on fixed income may have some of those questions answered

21 whether they would be in favor of or against it at that

22 time.

23 I realize that everybody won't benefit from

24 it. There's some who will not. That's the case in most

25 of the laws of the land, some don't benefit. We are in a

53

CSB REPORTING KEARSLEY
Wilder, Idaho 83676 Public

1 democracy. I feel, again, if we could find out if the

2 majority were for that, that that's the way we should

3 go. I believe that's all the testimony I have at this

4 time.

5 COMMISSIONER HANSEN: Let's see if we have

6 any questions.

7 Yes, Commissioner Smith has a question.

8 COMMISSIONER SMITH: Yes, I do.

9

10 EXAMINATION

11

12 BY COMMISSIONER SMITH:

13 Q As I mentioned earlier, the Eden/Hazelton

14 folks sought for many years and finally obtained EAS into

15 Twin Falls and as they made their petitions, they were

16 thinking mainly of how beneficial it would be for them to

17 be able to call Twin Falls. When we went back, I guess

18 it was, a year ago and did the hearings to implement the

19 regional EAS area in the Magic Valley, the testimony from

20 those folks surprised me and what it was is that

21 businesses in Eden and Hazelton had seen a tremendous

22 increase because people from Twin Falls could now call

23 them. I didn't know if you were in a position to assess

24 whether there's any benefits to your business or

25 businesses generally in the valley from those outside

54

CSB REPORTING KEARSLEY (Com)
Wilder, Idaho 83676 Public

1 being able to reach you toll free.

2 A I'm sure there will be benefit to many of

3 those businesses. In the Idaho Falls area, Pocatello

4 area, a lot of those businesses also deal with businesses

5 here in this area. Some of them carry 800 numbers

6 presently in order for us to call them. It would be a

7 definite benefit for them if they can just pick up the

8 telephone and call. In fact, I know some in that area

9 when they expanded that area from Rexburg, I guess, Sugar

10 City area on down into southern Idaho, some of them in

11 fact at that time dropped their 800 numbers from outlying

12 areas because they picked up some of those, so that

13 meant, again, that was an additional cost who dealt with

14 them because we no longer had that 800 number.

15 Q I guess my question was do you see any

16 benefit for businesses in this valley from those other,

17 the others being able to call in toll free? In other

18 words, do you think you'll get more business from people

19 outside the area if they can call you toll free?

20 A I don't know that there would be a lot of

21 business that would come in from the expanded service

22 area to Teton Valley, necessarily, that would make a

23 telephone call if it was toll free versus as it is right

24 now.

25 COMMISSIONER SMITH: Okay, thank you.

55

CSB REPORTING KEARSLEY (Com)
Wilder, Idaho 83676 Public

1 COMMISSIONER HANSEN: Thank you for your

2 testimony.

3 (The witness left the stand.)

4 COMMISSIONER HANSEN: We have an

5 announcement. A white Chevy pickup, license plate 1T410,

6 you have your lights on and I hope it isn't Paul's

7 because Paul is our next person and I'm going to say

8 Humurth and I might, I hope I've got that right,

9 P.O. Box 993, Driggs.

10

11 PAUL HOWARTH,

12 appearing as a public witness, having been first duly

13 sworn, testified as follows:

14

15 EXAMINATION

16

17 BY MR. HOWELL:

18 Q Sir, could you state your full name and

19 spell your last for the record?

20 A It's Paul Howarth, H-o-w-a-r-t-h,

21 P.O. Box 993, Driggs, Idaho. I'm here on behalf of

22 Jackson Hole Realty of which I'm a Realtor. We have nine

23 incoming lines in our business. Most of our business

24 comes from outside of the EAS area and we would

25 definitely appreciate Teton Telecom offering this as an

56

CSB REPORTING HOWARTH
Wilder, Idaho 83676 Public

1 option to businesses that we can use the facility,

2 because we have 800 numbers coming in and we have most of

3 our business out-of-state calls, so I would please

4 request that this is put as an option that we could use

5 this facility and not just mandate it that we have to use

6 it.

7 Thank you.

8 COMMISSIONER HANSEN: Let's see if we have

9 any questions.

10 Being none, thank you for your testimony.

11 THE WITNESS: Thank you.

12 (The witness left the stand.)

13 COMMISSIONER HANSEN: We now have Lorin

14 Schiess.

15

16 LORIN SCHIESS,

17 appearing as a public witness, having been first duly

18 sworn, testified as follows:

19

20 THE WITNESS: My name is Lorin Schiess,

21 S-c-h-i-e-s-s. My physical address is 135 West 300

22 South. My mailing address is P.O. Box 155, Driggs,

23 Idaho. In the case of the EAS calling area that's been

24 offered, I work in a business, it's an auto parts, we

25 have two long distance lines, two lines coming into it.

57

CSB REPORTING SCHIESS
Wilder, Idaho 83676 Public

1 It's a dead-even trade with what we -- with what our

2 phone bill is right now with our carrier who I don't know

3 who the carrier is, but with the rates that are on the

4 two lines now plus the long distance carrier that we

5 have, it's a dead-even trade.

6 I talked to my warehouse today, they have

7 an 800 number, they say that we are charged also by the

8 phone call going into them, which is approximately 15 to

9 20 a day into that facility and I don't know the cost on

10 that, so the EAS would be a savings to the business that

11 I work in.

12 As far as my personal home phone, it would

13 be a savings of 30 to $35.00 per month to me and it would

14 also be a savings to my college-aged daughter who most of

15 her phone calls are long distance from Pocatello to Teton

16 Valley and it would be a tremendous savings, so I am in

17 favor of it as it has been proposed.

18 COMMISSIONER HANSEN: Thank you.

19 Do we have any questions?

20 Hearing none, thank you for your

21 testimony.

22 (The witness left the stand.)

23 COMMISSIONER HANSEN: We have Rick

24 LaBelle.

25

58

CSB REPORTING SCHIESS
Wilder, Idaho 83676 Public

1 RICK LaBELLE,

2 appearing as a public witness, having been first duly

3 sworn, testified as follows:

4

5 THE WITNESS: It looks like we have a lot

6 of business owners here right now, but Rick LaBelle,

7 L-a-B-e-l-l-e, address is 550 South 50 West in Victor and

8 I'm here mainly representing my business in Driggs which

9 is a national catalog company. It's Are You Outside. We

10 too have eight local phone lines for incoming and

11 outgoing calls both. I'm real concerned over the

12 increase in the basic monthly fee for each of these

13 lines.

14 Reviewing our phone records, we had more

15 incoming and outgoing calls to Scandinavia last year than

16 we did to this extended area of Idaho Falls which is long

17 distance currently. It would represent a monthly

18 increase to us, as I understand it right now, of about

19 $188. I'd be paying approximately $380 per month just

20 for my phone lines.

21 My statement is I really would encourage

22 this to be an option for businesses. When I look at this

23 as a business owner, I'm forced to consider all of my

24 choices if this actually passes and we're very seasonal.

25 During eight months of the year, we don't need eight

59

CSB REPORTING LaBELLE
Wilder, Idaho 83676 Public

1 phone lines, but I'd be paying for them just so I could

2 use them during the four months that I really do need

3 them.

4 We're looking at adding two more lines this

5 coming season where we'll have at least 10 lines and it's

6 something that actually even could force us to do things

7 like out-source our telephone part of our business which

8 would cost local jobs. It's not something I had in mind

9 when I moved the company here from a metro area three

10 years ago and wanted to really promote what this valley

11 has to offer and also help the local economy.

12 Just to give you an idea, I think there

13 could be ways of making up for revenue deficits from

14 businesses across the board if the costs associated with

15 that type of business is necessary. We had 15,000

16 minutes of incoming phone calls in December and of those,

17 3.6 minutes were intrastate incoming calls.

18 I was interested in the question posed to

19 Dave Kearsley earlier about whether this EAS would

20 increase the business the local businesses would get from

21 this EAS service; in other words, would more people in

22 Idaho Falls be willing to pick up the phone and call us.

23 We have 800 lines that meet that need and overall when

24 you factor that into the whole picture, it's more cost

25 effective. It's leaving the choice up to us of whether

60

CSB REPORTING LaBELLE
Wilder, Idaho 83676 Public

1 we want, whether the business that we feel we can get

2 warrants adding an 800 line or not.

3 No matter what happens here, I definitely

4 am interested in talking with Teton Telecom about options

5 down the road as cost increases continue to occur because

6 we do plan on adding phone lines yearly and we'll need to

7 do that. I think I've stated everything if there's any

8 questions.

9 COMMISSIONER HANSEN: Thank you for your

10 testimony.

11 Do we have any questions?

12 Yes, Mr. Howell.

13

14 CROSS-EXAMINATION

15

16 BY MR. HOWELL:

17 Q Mr. LaBelle, your incoming 800 lines aren't

18 provided by Teton, are they?

19 A They're not. They're through Network Plus

20 which is a Sprint affiliate.

21 MR. HOWELL: Right. Thank you.

22 COMMISSIONER HANSEN: Thank you for your

23 testimony.

24 (The witness left the stand.)

25 COMMISSIONER HANSEN: We now have the

61

CSB REPORTING LaBELLE (X)
Wilder, Idaho 83676 Public

1 initial K. Head.

2 KITCHENER HEAD,

3 appearing as a public witness, having been first duly

4 sworn, testified as follows:

5

6 EXAMINATION

7

8 BY MR. HOWELL:

9 Q Sir, I need your name and address for the

10 record.

11 A My name is Kitchener Head. I won't spell

12 Kitchener, but Head is spelled H-e-a-d just like head.

13 I'll have to admit I came here tonight with a semi-open

14 mind.

15 Q We need your address.

16 A Oh, Box 430, Driggs, Driggs, Idaho,

17 Box 430. This has been a very interesting meeting. I'm

18 just really disappointed there aren't a lot more people

19 here because there are sure a lot more people in Teton

20 Valley that are vitally interested in this that aren't

21 here tonight. I've been interested in the comments.

22 I'll have to admit that Mr. Gallagher -- by the way,

23 gentlemen, I like your suits. That doesn't mean,

24 Mr. Gallagher, I don't like your Levis, I almost came in

25 Levis, but I'll have to admit that Mr. Gallagher's

62

CSB REPORTING HEAD
Wilder, Idaho 83676 Public

1 testimony and Mr. McCoy and Mr. Shane's testimony went

2 right over my head. I couldn't quite understand what

3 they were talking about. Now, when I was a kid --

4 COMMISSIONER HANSEN: Mr. Head, at the

5 break you'll be able to talk to them and ask them those

6 questions, but just keep your testimony to this subject,

7 please.

8 THE WITNESS: Thank you, sir. My testimony

9 is this: When I was a kid, I lived in a little town in

10 southern Alberta. A city 56 miles away was a long ways

11 away. I never got to that city until I was about 15

12 years old. It's not that way today, it's not that way.

13 Our local area now is 150, 250 miles away, as far as

14 Salt Lake City, as far as Boise, as far as Evanston. We

15 don't live in a little tiny community any more.

16 I've been working in this valley since 1961

17 and I've made extensive use of the telephones for medical

18 consultation. That is a big part of the life in this

19 valley. Schools are 75 to 150 miles away, businesses are

20 150 miles away. Do we want the EAS? Yes, we do because

21 it will help everyone.

22 Now, I understand there are people here who

23 are on fixed incomes who only make two calls to Idaho

24 Falls a month. They are the very people who would

25 benefit by having the EAS because they would be the ones

63

CSB REPORTING HEAD
Wilder, Idaho 83676 Public

1 who would use this service more than anybody else. The

2 calls would be increased immeasurably, immeasurably.

3 My wife has a home business. She spends

4 between 200 and $300 a month calling the local area which

5 would be included in the EAS. That expense would be down

6 exceedingly, there's no question about that. I think the

7 EAS is a necessary determinant for the progress in this

8 valley, for the economic success in this valley. I think

9 if we put this in effect right now today every single one

10 of you who are opposed to it would be using this service

11 tomorrow to its fullest extent and you'd be getting the

12 benefits from it. I don't think there's any question

13 about that.

14 That's all and I'll question them later.

15 COMMISSIONER HANSEN: Let's see if we have

16 any questions for Mr. Head.

17 MR. GALLAGHER: Actually, I have one.

18 COMMISSIONER HANSEN: Mr. Gallagher, I'm

19 sorry.

20

21 CROSS-EXAMINATION

22

23 BY MR. GALLAGHER:

24 Q Mr. Head, would you be in favor of having

25 this issue on a ballot where the people of the valley

64

CSB REPORTING HEAD (X)
Wilder, Idaho 83676 Public

1 could decide individually?

2 A I'd certainly be in favor of having this on

3 a ballot if the information was presented fairly. In

4 this day and age with our present whatever, we don't get

5 the information presented fairly, but, yes, I would be

6 absolutely in favor of it, because I can't think that any

7 reasonable person would disagree with this if the

8 information were presented fairly.

9 MR. GALLAGHER: Thank you.

10 COMMISSIONER HANSEN: Thank you for your

11 testimony.

12 (The witness left the stand.)

13 COMMISSIONER HANSEN: We now have Delwin

14 Smith.

15

16 DELWIN SMITH,

17 appearing as a public witness, having been first duly

18 sworn, testified as follows:

19

20 THE WITNESS: Delwin Smith, S-m-i-t-h.

21

22 EXAMINATION

23

24 BY MR. HOWELL:

25 Q And your address, Mr. Smith?

65

CSB REPORTING SMITH
Wilder, Idaho 83676 Public

1 A 1056 North State Highway 32, Tetonia.

2 Q Yes, sir, go ahead.

3 A As a resident of this valley for all of my

4 life and having a phone for the last 25, 26 years through

5 various companies, the majority of our phone bill has

6 been long distance calls to what would include this

7 extended calling area. Virtually everything that we do

8 is based upon Rexburg and Idaho Falls calls. Up to this

9 point in time we have not had any services to the calls

10 that we call the most and, therefore, I would give

11 testimony that I am definitely in favor of instating this

12 calling service.

13 COMMISSIONER HANSEN: Thank you. Let's see

14 if we have any questions.

15 Being none, thank you for your testimony.

16 (The witness left the stand.)

17 COMMISSIONER HANSEN: We also have on that

18 same line Elaine Smith. Would you care to come forward?

19 I like the way you signed that, you'll get the last

20 word.

21 MRS. SMITH: He did a good job.

22

23

24

25

66

CSB REPORTING SMITH
Wilder, Idaho 83676 Public

1 ELAINE SMITH,

2 appearing as a public witness, having been first duly

3 sworn, testified as follows:

4

5 THE WITNESS: My name is Elaine Smith,

6 S-m-i-t-h. I'm the other half of him, so that's why our

7 names were on the same line. I pretty well want to agree

8 with what he's already said. I'm for the extended

9 service calling area. I also have a sister in Montpelier

10 and we have in-laws that live in Rexburg and at this

11 present time we make several phone calls to Pocatello and

12 it would save us approximately 35 to $40.00 a month.

13 COMMISSIONER HANSEN: Thank you. Let's

14 see, do we have any questions?

15 Being none, thank you for your testimony.

16 (The witness left the stand.)

17 COMMISSIONER HANSEN: Patricia Schiess.

18

19 PATRICIA SCHIESS,

20 appearing as a public witness, having been first duly

21 sworn, testified as follows:

22

23 THE WITNESS: My name is Patricia Schiess,

24 S-c-h-i-e-s-s, 135 West 300 South in Driggs, and I am in

25 favor of the EAS. I work for a company that's a public

67

CSB REPORTING SCHIESS
Wilder, Idaho 83676 Public

1 transportation company here in the valley. We have two

2 phone lines in our office and at this time with the EAS

3 at the rate of the $42.00 a month, it would save us at

4 least $100 a month. We are a public-funded company, a

5 nonprofit company that works on grants, federal funding,

6 so it's public money that's keeping us going, so anything

7 that we can do to reduce those costs helps everybody and

8 it would save there, and like I say, at least a minimum.

9 We have satellite offices in Rexburg, our

10 parent company is in Idaho Falls. They do have an 800

11 line for some of the calls that we do, but we deal with

12 Greyhound in a lot of other areas and so we have a lot of

13 long distance calls that are in this area. 95 percent of

14 our calls are in the EAS area.

15 Personally, it would save us 30 to $40.00

16 at least a month on our own personal phone and I have a

17 daughter that's in school that we're helping support.

18 Her long distance phone bills in turn kind of are mine,

19 too, because we're helping support her, so it would save

20 us twice to have the EAS while she's in school for the

21 next year or two here.

22 If the rates go up and anything that's had

23 a freeze on it for three years, I don't care what kind of

24 business it is, when it comes off, rates go up. That's

25 just the way things work anymore and I'm sure the rates

68

CSB REPORTING SCHIESS
Wilder, Idaho 83676 Public

1 will probably go up and so I would rather pay the $24.00

2 a month as opposed to 22 plus long distance with the EAS

3 cost. That's all I have.

4 COMMISSIONER HANSEN: Let's see if we have

5 any questions.

6 Yes, Mr. McClure.

7 MR. McCLURE: Yes, Mr. Commissioner, I do

8 have a question.

9

10 CROSS-EXAMINATION

11

12 BY MR. McCLURE:

13 Q I'm not familiar with your business. Could

14 you tell me what your business is and what it does?

15 A We're a public transportation service that

16 serves Teton County, well, really all of southeastern

17 Idaho. Like I said, the parent company is out of

18 Idaho Falls. We run a bus service for this area. We

19 connect people with Idaho Falls, Jackson, Wyoming, so

20 they can hook up with Greyhounds, airports. We have

21 several buses that run here in this area that take care

22 of Head Start kids, senior citizens, people that need

23 rides to work, anybody that needs a ride is who we take

24 care of in this area, and then connecting, like I said,

25 we interconnect with the buses in Rexburg that take

69

CSB REPORTING SCHIESS (X)
Wilder, Idaho 83676 Public

1 people into Idaho Falls or into Swan Valley, it goes to

2 Jackson and it takes a lot of phone calls to connect

3 people from wherever they're coming to wherever they're

4 going. You know, they have to call to get those in.

5 COMMISSIONER HANSEN: Yes, Mr. Gallagher.

6 MR. GALLAGHER: In the 20 years I've known

7 the Schiess family, this is the most words I've heard out

8 of both of them.

9 THE WITNESS: Well, it's an important

10 issue. It would help me personally and a lot of other

11 people I know, too.

12 MR. GALLAGHER: Well done, Patricia.

13 COMMISSIONER HANSEN: Any other questions?

14 Thank you for your testimony.

15 THE WITNESS: Thank you.

16 (The witness left the stand.)

17 COMMISSIONER HANSEN: Allene Luke.

18 We'll probably go a couple, three more and then we'll

19 take a break. We've got quite a few left, so we'll move

20 right along.

21

22

23

24

25

70

CSB REPORTING SCHIESS (X)
Wilder, Idaho 83676 Public

1 ALLENE LUKE,

2 appearing as a public witness, having been first duly

3 sworn, testified as follows:

4

5 THE WITNESS: Hi, I'm Allene Luke and it's

6 L-u-k-e. My address is 635 North 175 West, Tetonia, and

7 I am in favor of the extended calling service. I am from

8 Preston and we've had to put my mom into a resthome and I

9 hate to call when there's just nothing there, but I'd

10 love to be able to call on a daily basis to see how she

11 was doing and I have a lot of brothers and sisters that I

12 would love to keep in touch with, and both of our parents

13 are both in hospitals right now and it's hard to just say

14 which one are we calling tonight, we can't call both, and

15 I think it would be a very beneficial service to this

16 county if we could be able to call, so that's what I have

17 to say. I'm for it.

18 COMMISSIONER HANSEN: Thank you. Let's see

19 if we have any questions.

20 Thank you for your testimony.

21 (The witness left the stand.)

22 COMMISSIONER HANSEN: We now have Ronald

23 Berry.

24

25

71

CSB REPORTING LUKE
Wilder, Idaho 83676 Public

1 RONALD BERRY,

2 appearing as a public witness, having been first duly

3 sworn, testified as follows:

4

5 THE WITNESS: My name is Ronald Berry. My

6 address is 115 South 3rd with I put down P.O. Box 191, I

7 think is what I put that at, Tetonia. I've been a

8 resident of Teton Valley for 38 years and my family has

9 lived in Teton Valley for a number of years. My

10 grandfather started the business and that's who I'm going

11 to represent tonight, too, is our business which is John

12 C. Berry and Sons, Incorporated, which we've been a

13 Chevron distributor for 55 years and we've been an EXXON

14 distributor now for almost a year, and we have four lines

15 coming into our business and to our houses.

16 A lot of times we get phone calls to our

17 houses that are related to business. I don't want you to

18 increase our rates at our personal residence because of

19 that. We receive probably 10 to 15 faxes per day in the

20 local area and that is people that are sending us faxes

21 and we fax anywhere from 10 to 15 faxes per day. We have

22 in our figures with what we would save, we would save

23 $310 a month with the extended service area and that's a

24 tremendous amount of savings. I'm not sure whether

25 anybody else here is going to be able to receive that

72

CSB REPORTING BERRY
Wilder, Idaho 83676 Public

1 kind of savings, but that's a tremendous amount of

2 money.

3 You asked the question if more businesses

4 would be able to call us and we would have more business

5 outside of this extended calling service area, yes, we

6 would. We're doing business with people in Idaho Falls,

7 Pocatello, Soda Springs, Lava Hot Springs, Rexburg,

8 almost every area in the service area, and we've tried to

9 improve our business so that we can do that and that's

10 one of the drawbacks that we have with our business is

11 that people don't like to call us because it's a long

12 distance phone call.

13 We've looked at trying to decide whether to

14 do an 800 number because of the expense of what our

15 customers are paying to call us. As our businesses

16 increase, we expect that this rate if it's left the way

17 it is right now that our business savings we could amount

18 to would probably be close to $500 a month with the

19 business that we've been picking up.

20 Another thing that I'd like to make mention

21 of is family calls. My wife's family is from the Rigby

22 area. Grandmother and grandfather live there. My

23 brother lives in Newdale, lots of family and a lot of

24 times that long distance, next best thing is being

25 there. This extended calling service area would be the

73

CSB REPORTING BERRY
Wilder, Idaho 83676 Public

1 next best thing to being there, and I'm speaking on

2 behalf of my wife Michele who couldn't be here because of

3 our kids. My father couldn't be here, my mother is in

4 the audience and as a result of the four of us, we are in

5 support of this extended service area because it could

6 save us a tremendous amount of money. We struggled for a

7 long time and within this last year we've had an

8 opportunity to increase our business and this will

9 increase our business more by doing this.

10 COMMISSIONER HANSEN: Let's see if we have

11 any questions.

12 Yes, Mr. Gallagher.

13

14 CROSS-EXAMINATION

15

16 BY MR. GALLAGHER:

17 Q Mr. Berry, when you do your taxes at the

18 end of year, is your phone bill considered part of your

19 business overhead, is that deducted off the top before

20 you pay taxes?

21 A No.

22 Q It's not?

23 A No.

24 MR. GALLAGHER: Interesting. Thank you.

25 COMMISSIONER HANSEN: Any other questions?

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CSB REPORTING BERRY (X)
Wilder, Idaho 83676 Public

1 Yes, Commissioner Smith.

2

3 EXAMINATION

4

5 BY COMMISSIONER SMITH:

6 Q Mr. Berry, if you save that much money a

7 month, does this mean the price of gas will go down in

8 Driggs?

9 A You know, if I could say this, maybe

10 Mr. Gallagher, he buys some oil from me once in awhile,

11 maybe the price of oil might go down, too, that's a good

12 possibility. Would everybody support that if I said

13 yes?

14 COMMISSIONER HANSEN: I've got to ask you a

15 tougher question than Commissioner Smith. Who talks the

16 longest to your relatives right now, you or your wife?

17 THE WITNESS: My wife.

18 COMMISSIONER HANSEN: Thank you.

19 THE WITNESS: She was on the phone with her

20 family last night --

21 COMMISSIONER HANSEN: Thank you for your

22 testimony.

23 (The witness left the stand.)

24 COMMISSIONER HANSEN: We'll now have Jackie

25 Riley.

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CSB REPORTING BERRY (Com)
Wilder, Idaho 83676 Public

1 JACKIE RILEY,

2 appearing as a public witness, having been first duly

3 sworn, testified as follows:

4

5 THE WITNESS: It's Jackie Riley,

6 J-a-c-k-i-e R-i-l-e-y, P.O. Box 806, Driggs, Idaho,

7 83422. I am opposed to the EAS because I personally

8 cannot afford that extra $13.00 a month. I'm wondering

9 if there is a rate increase would it really increase 10

10 to $12.00. I mean, everything that I've ever read in the

11 paper, those kinds of increases have been shot down. You

12 know, I could be wrong, but I can't understand how

13 increases like that would be allowed to a consumer.

14 I see the need for this service to be an

15 option. Maybe down the road I'll have a home business or

16 some kind of business where it will benefit me, but right

17 now I make, $4.00 is my highest phone bill to Idaho Falls

18 and the surrounding area. I support a lot of the

19 businesses that would use this. We've used several

20 businesses, but I feel that right now it does not allow

21 me to pay for that increase.

22 It would scare me to death if our basic

23 phone bill would increase to $20.00 a month on a normal

24 basis and also in my letter to the papers, you know,

25 you're talking about these basic rates, but you're not

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CSB REPORTING RILEY
Wilder, Idaho 83676 Public

1 talking about the taxes and all those other services you

2 have, so, like somebody had mentioned, you're still

3 talking $31.00 for an increase that would be your base

4 rate. You know, their base rate is something, but your

5 base rate would be a lot higher than what is stated at

6 the $24.10.

7 My calls go to Jackson and I know that

8 Silver Star is in Freedom, Wyoming, so if you went the

9 other way and included Jackson in this, I could probably

10 benefit a lot more from this. I do not call except for

11 when I need some kind of service call. I do not call

12 Idaho Falls or that area. I have no family. You know,

13 my family is on the East Coast and the West Coast or

14 Colorado, so that would not benefit me.

15 The Universal Service Fund, I thought we

16 already paid an increase on that. There was something in

17 the mail, I don't know if I understood the entire thing,

18 but something was going up by 30 or $.40 to go towards

19 the Universal Service Fund, so I thought we were already

20 paying in that.

21 You know, I think it should be an optional

22 thing. It would definitely benefit a lot of people, but

23 it would disbenefit, I don't know if that's a word or

24 not, a whole population of other people, so I am against

25 it in that sense. I also have to agree with earlier

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CSB REPORTING RILEY
Wilder, Idaho 83676 Public

1 testimony that we have not been informed in a timely

2 manner. I was told by the PUC that a decision was made

3 on February 27th, Teton Telecom sent a letter out on

4 March 10th and the period ending public comment was on

5 the 21st which was a Saturday, of course, of March and

6 that did not really allow enough time for people to get

7 involved and know what was going on.

8 I remember reading something about the

9 November meeting, but after that I never heard another

10 word. I would have liked to have been more involved in

11 what was going on. I works nights, so I just happened to

12 not have to work tonight, so I was able to come. The

13 newsletter was printed and sent out stating one thing, it

14 was never retracted on the little messages that are sent

15 on the phone bills, which I thought was pretty shabby. I

16 particularly looked for that when it came time when --

17 after I made the call to Teton Telecom and they told me

18 about this meeting; otherwise, I never would have known

19 about this meeting. I would have just thought that it

20 had gone through, and I was involved with instigating

21 this new meeting because I wanted to know more and I

22 still haven't learned any of the details. I do feel for

23 each side and I stick by my side.

24 COMMISSIONER HANSEN: Thank you.

25 Do we have any questions?

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CSB REPORTING RILEY
Wilder, Idaho 83676 Public

1 Yes, Mr. Gallagher.

2

3 CROSS-EXAMINATION

4

5 BY MR. GALLAGHER:

6 Q Would you like to be better informed in the

7 future?

8 A I would and I would like it to be in a

9 timely fashion where we can respond in a timely fashion.

10 We do work during the day, so we can't always get to the

11 phone on things. I still would like to know how these

12 calls came about and I would like to know what is the

13 likelihood of a rate increase of $10.00 actually going

14 through. You know, I might have to option for the EAS if

15 it came down to that, but, I mean, most increases that

16 happen come in small increments.

17 After the freeze or, you know, a year down

18 the road, who says that the EAS rate won't go up an

19 astronomical amount. I mean, I have lots of questions

20 and lots of confusion about what I would really feel if

21 the rate actually did go up to what they've said.

22 COMMISSIONER HANSEN: Any other questions?

23 Yes, Commissioner Smith

24

25

79

CSB REPORTING RILEY (X)
Wilder, Idaho 83676 Public

1 EXAMINATION

2

3 BY COMMISSIONER SMITH:

4 Q I was just curious, Ms. Riley, do you do a

5 lot of local calling in the valley?

6 A I do call Victor, Driggs, occasionally

7 Tetonia. Most of my calls, I work in Jackson and most of

8 my calls that are work-related are to Jackson, but

9 otherwise, I don't -- I make my personal calls to

10 friends.

11 Q Would you estimate that that's more than

12 four hours a month?

13 A Probably, because I do work quite a bit, so

14 the phone is my access since I can't get together with

15 people.

16 COMMISSIONER SMITH: Okay. Thank you.

17 COMMISSIONER HANSEN: Thank you for your

18 testimony.

19 (The witness left the stand.)

20 COMMISSIONER HANSEN: Pauli Shields.

21

22

23

24

25

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CSB REPORTING RILEY (Com)
Wilder, Idaho 83676 Public

1 PAULI SHIELDS,

2 appearing as a public witness, having been first duly

3 sworn, testified as follows:

4

5 THE WITNESS: It's Pauli Shields,

6 S-h-i-e-l-d-s. I'm opposed to the EAS because it's not

7 optional. It doesn't benefit me in any way. I don't

8 understand why I have to subsidize businesses. The local

9 businesses get my business. I don't do business in Idaho

10 Falls. I don't do business outside of Driggs. I try and

11 keep my money in the valley. My husband and I are on a

12 fixed income. The cost increase, we already had a cost

13 increase when Teton Telecom bought us out or whatever

14 they did from U S WEST and we had no option, we had no

15 say.

16 My bill went up approximately $8.00 and I

17 had nothing to say about that at that time. When this

18 was first suggested, it sounded like it was going to be

19 maybe $5.00. Well, maybe $5.00 so that everybody can

20 benefit by it is cool. When people started talking 20,

21 $21.00, now up to $24.00, that's unreasonable for me. I

22 will give up my phone.

23 Right now Teton Telecom is offering

24 Internet service, which by the way I'm on the Internet

25 service of Teton Valley Net through Hugh Shane, and I pay

81

CSB REPORTING SHIELDS
Wilder, Idaho 83676 Public

1 him more than Teton Telecom just offered Internet

2 service. They're offering Internet service for the

3 individual for no limit of time at 18.95. At that rate,

4 I could talk to -- all of my family members are outside

5 of this calling area, so I could talk to them on your

6 18.95 by E-mail. I don't need the telephone.

7 I think that it's cheap and sleazy that a

8 huge company can come into a small town like this and

9 undercut the prices because it is a big corporation of

10 the little guys who are trying to make it. I appreciate

11 having an Internet service. I do appreciate having the

12 choice of who I go with with that Internet service and it

13 wouldn't necessarily be the big guy because I'm kind of

14 paranoid.

15 I'm also concerned, we're talking about

16 this rate increase after the freeze. Well, don't ask me

17 if I want to pay $22.00 now or $24.10 because I believe

18 after the freeze it's going to go up anyway, so it's not

19 going to be a question of 24.10, it's going to be a

20 question of 26.30, plus all of the other taxes and the

21 various other costs that we get tagged with anyway, it's

22 going to be in the neighborhood of $35.00 after the March

23 freeze.

24 I believe that the 24.10 is an extortion

25 because the $16.00 for the 90 minutes, I have a few

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CSB REPORTING SHIELDS
Wilder, Idaho 83676 Public

1 friends in the valley and within my few friends, I would

2 eat up my 90 minutes in three days and so it's going to

3 cost me an arm and a leg to talk to people here in the

4 valley or I'm going to have to go out and visit. My

5 point that I want to make is that I think it should be

6 optional.

7 I also think it would be nice if people

8 paid attention to you when you were talking. It should

9 be optional. We shouldn't have to subsidize everybody

10 and the people who -- I think it's wonderful for the

11 people who will benefit by it, but I'm not one of them.

12 Thank you.

13 COMMISSIONER HANSEN: Let's see if we have

14 any questions.

15 Being none, thank you for your testimony.

16 (The witness left the stand.)

17 COMMISSIONER HANSEN: We really appreciate

18 all of you that have testified here so far this evening.

19 It's very beneficial to us. I appreciate you people in

20 the audience respecting their views. We're going to take

21 a break right now. We have about 30 more signed up. I'd

22 encourage you to come back. We're here, we want to hear

23 from you. We'll take a ten-minute break and then we'll

24 come back and we'll start with Steve Hochstrasser, I

25 believe that's how you pronounce that, I hope.

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CSB REPORTING SHIELDS
Wilder, Idaho 83676 Public

1 (Recess.)

2 COMMISSIONER HANSEN: Steve Hochstrasser.

3

4 STEVE HOCHSTRASSER,

5 appearing as a public witness, having been first duly

6 sworn, testified as follows:

7

8 COMMISSIONER SMITH: State your name.

9 THE WITNESS: Steve Hochstrasser,

10 H-o-c-h-s-t-r-a-s-s-e-r. First of all, I'd like to say

11 that I empathize with those of you who have businesses or

12 relatives that you need to call that would be served well

13 by this extended area calling service. I certainly feel

14 for you and I hope you get it, but personally, my

15 household would not benefit from this and I would like to

16 express that I don't support it at this time.

17 I think our best option would be to either

18 vote on it and try and get it as an added service as

19 someone mentioned earlier. The option that's currently

20 being proposed would not suit my family because I have

21 three children that get on the phone for hours and, you

22 know, it doesn't work for me. If the rates continue to

23 increase, I will have to investigate further the cellular

24 compatibility of whether or not that's going to meet my

25 financial needs better.

84

CSB REPORTING HOCHSTRASSER
Wilder, Idaho 83676 Public

1 Mr. Flaherty and Mr. McCoy were quite

2 eloquent in the way that they expressed themselves, but

3 some of you that talk about calling your relatives that

4 are away or sick, what about us who have relatives that

5 are sick or further away that we have to use that money

6 for long distance that we would be subsidizing, you know,

7 we'd have to funnel those funds into paying for our local

8 service rather than being able to use those funds and

9 call our relatives that are out of state, so that's one

10 point I wanted to bring out.

11 With respect to the local business, whether

12 or not our people would be able to get more business, I

13 tend to believe that some of the business would leave the

14 area because they would have the ability to call and shop

15 around for things that's offered in this valley and get

16 it cheaper outside this valley, like, for instance, if I

17 wanted to buy a bike from a local business, I might find

18 it cheaper in Pocatello or Idaho Falls by just calling

19 out there, which certainly that, you know, would offset

20 some of what I'm paying, but as it sits right now, I'm

21 not in favor of it and I don't see that it would serve my

22 family.

23 Thank you.

24 COMMISSIONER HANSEN: Thank you.

25 Do we have any questions?

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CSB REPORTING HOCHSTRASSER
Wilder, Idaho 83676 Public

1 Yes, Commissioner Smith.

2 COMMISSIONER SMITH: Just one comment. I

3 guess that's why I brought the question up because the

4 common wisdom always has been that a small community

5 would suffer when given EAS to a wider community because

6 people would shop out and that would be to the detriment

7 of local businesses, but the actual experience that we've

8 had has been just the opposite which was a surprise to

9 me.

10 THE WITNESS: In 100 percent of the cases?

11 COMMISSIONER SMITH: Well, yes, in the

12 cases that we've seen and so the common wisdom didn't

13 prove out and it was a surprise to me is why I mention

14 it.

15 THE WITNESS: That would remain to be seen.

16 COMMISSIONER HANSEN: Thank you for your

17 testimony.

18 (The witness left the stand.)

19 COMMISSIONER HANSEN: I might mention,

20 ladies and gentlemen, we have about 30 more to testify

21 and if you -- and we want you to feel free to give your

22 reasons why you're for or against, but if you can make

23 them brief, I'm sure that will help some of those who are

24 waiting in line.

25 We'll now have Toni Hill.

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CSB REPORTING HOCHSTRASSER
Wilder, Idaho 83676 Public

1 TONI HILL,

2 appearing as a public witness, having been first duly

3 sworn, testified as follows:

4

5 THE WITNESS: I'm Toni Hill, H-i-l-l. I

6 live at 178 South 600 West, Driggs, Idaho, and I think

7 maybe the people here would appreciate it if they could

8 just have the information and have been or could be a

9 vote in their phone bill, then whether when they get it

10 or they don't get, it's just the American way, that you

11 all get a say, but I personally would like the extended

12 coverage.

13 I've lived in Idaho for 36 years and I've

14 gotten to know a lot of people in Swan Valley as well as

15 out below and I have daughters in Hagerman and American

16 Falls and they both have extended coverage in their

17 area. Even if they don't have relatives in the area,

18 they feel they're saving money. They just really enjoy

19 being able to call wherever they want without all the

20 long distance calls and I feel the same, that as far as

21 friends, business, relatives, it would all help.

22 I feel that if any of my friends choose it,

23 they can only afford the 90 minutes a month or anybody

24 else that would call me if they just said, I'm sorry, I

25 can't afford to talk over a minute, call me back, I would

87

CSB REPORTING HILL
Wilder, Idaho 83676 Public

1 call them back. I mean, it seems like people don't have

2 to do all the calling and let their friends that have the

3 better coverage call them.

4 Anyway, I would like you to respect the 500

5 people who petitioned for this. I have two sons, Tom

6 Hill and Harley Hill, that they feel it would help them,

7 also, financially to have the calling service, but none

8 of us three were on this petition. I think that is

9 probably everything I have to say.

10 COMMISSIONER HANSEN: Okay, thank you.

11 Do we have any questions?

12 Yes, Mr. Gallagher.

13

14 CROSS-EXAMINATION

15

16 BY MR. GALLAGHER:

17 Q Ms. Hill, did you say you would like to see

18 this issue put on a ballot?

19 A I think that people would be happier with

20 it and it would have saved a lot of people a lot of time

21 if we could have had the information or still could so

22 that people could make an educated decision and then if

23 it could just come with our phone bill and when you paid

24 your phone bill, you say which way you wanted it. I

25 think there wouldn't be all this tension of people

88

CSB REPORTING HILL (X)
Wilder, Idaho 83676 Public

1 feeling that somebody is subsidizing somebody else.

2 Whether it works or it doesn't, they at least would have

3 a say which is the American way.

4 MR. GALLAGHER: Thank you.

5 COMMISSIONER HANSEN: Any other questions?

6 Thank you for your testimony.

7 (The witness left the stand.)

8 COMMISSIONER HANSEN: Stacy Stewart.

9

10 STACY STEWART,

11 appearing as a public witness, having been first duly

12 sworn, testified as follows:

13

14 THE WITNESS: My name is Stacy Stewart,

15 S-t-e-w-a-r-t. I live at P.O. Box 708, Driggs, Idaho,

16 83422. A couple of things. First of all,

17 Commissioner Hansen, you were incorrect when you opened

18 up and I want to correct that. You spoke about having

19 people stand up to 6 or $7.00, even a $10.00 increase if

20 they were in favor of it, it was actually 13 to $15.00 an

21 hour -- I'm sorry, 13 to $15.00 a month and there was

22 more than half of the congregation or audience standing

23 at that time which filled this entire section

24 [indicating] and they were still standing at $15.00.

25 At that time I handed in 130 letters that I

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CSB REPORTING STEWART
Wilder, Idaho 83676 Public

1 hope will be considered and the evidence that was given

2 and the testimonies that were given, you mentioned the

3 number of 500 in favor of or over 500, I hope that those

4 are going to be considered, also. We live in a community

5 where this time of year it's awful hard to get people to

6 come out. They're busy, they're out there working in the

7 fields and doing the things they need to do and they felt

8 like they've already given their opinion.

9 I represent a business here in Driggs. We

10 have four business lines and the savings to me because of

11 faxes that we utilize between my office and our title

12 office in Rexburg where our title plant is located is a

13 tremendous amount of faxes a day every day that we have

14 to utilize. The savings to my business after considering

15 the increase to the business lines would be somewhere

16 around 3 to $400 a month in the business end.

17 There was some talk tonight about 800

18 numbers. Most the people that I know in the Upper Snake

19 River Valley that's had 800 numbers are getting rid of

20 them because of the expanded area service out there.

21 They don't need to keep them anymore. They feel like

22 basically Teton Valley will be the only place that would

23 use that service with the exception of a few.

24 I'm glad to see that there's a plan for the

25 fixed income. I mentioned that earlier in a comment in

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CSB REPORTING STEWART
Wilder, Idaho 83676 Public

1 the letter, that was one of my concerns when we first

2 started this hearing and I feel like that plan is in

3 place to support those who are truly in need and can

4 apply for that.

5 Again, mention the school district. We

6 have people living within the School District 401 who

7 it's a long distance phone call for them to call the

8 school. They have children in this high school and it's

9 a long distance phone call for them to call here. If

10 there's an emergency at home, if that child has a problem

11 and misses a bus, can't get back out there, they have to

12 call long distance to find out about that.

13 There's been mention and I think there will

14 be further testimony from some coming up about medical

15 problems that are in the Upper Snake River Valley. Many

16 of our people are transferred to Columbia Eastern Idaho

17 Regional Medical Center as well as Madison Memorial.

18 They elect to have services there as well as in senior

19 citizens' homes, long-term care facilities for the

20 elderly. Those areas, right now we have people who are

21 being serviced through chemotherapy, radiation that have

22 to go out daily, some of them. Some of them travel two

23 or three times a week to Idaho Falls. There's calling to

24 make appointment changes, consultations with their

25 physicians, those types of things and it's costing a

91

CSB REPORTING STEWART
Wilder, Idaho 83676 Public

1 tremendous amount of money to them.

2 On a personal basis, it would save me about

3 40 to $50.00 a month on my personal residence. I'm a

4 little confused, there's been a lot of talk about

5 majority voting and stealing and freedoms and choices.

6 These public hearings are our opportunity. Granted, a

7 vote would be great, that would be fine, but I had my

8 opportunity to vote. I'm here tonight, I was here at the

9 other hearing. The other hearing was publicized in the

10 papers. There was plenty of information put out about

11 the hearings at that time and I think that we as adults

12 need to find out as much information as we can we.

13 Granted, we don't find out all of it, but we have the

14 opportunity to go find out that information.

15 Personally, myself, I'm satisfied with the

16 information. I've been able to find out that it would be

17 a savings and a benefit, so I don't understand the

18 freedom and the choice because we have freedom and we

19 have the choice and we're here tonight to do that whether

20 we're for it or against it.

21 There's been a lot of talk about numbers

22 thrown out here tonight. The numbers are confusing when

23 you start saying 31, 32, 35, 27, 26. My understanding is

24 that it is approximately an increase on the residence of

25 $13.00, just under $13.00, a month and a lot of people

92

CSB REPORTING STEWART
Wilder, Idaho 83676 Public

1 are under a misconception that have talked to me.

2 They're saying my bill will go up 30-$31.00 a month. No,

3 it won't. You're already paying between 17 to 19 for the

4 base rate, so there is an increase there, granted, but

5 there's a lot of misinformation out there.

6 That pretty well addresses it. There's

7 been talk about cell phones. I've looked into that. I'm

8 not sure that the savings is all that great in the local

9 services that we have here. I'm not sure on that.

10 Internet services have been talked about and addressed.

11 You know, expanded area service is going to allow a lot

12 of options out there and some of that will benefit some

13 people and it won't benefit others and that's the way it

14 is and that's unfortunate, I guess, on one end if you're

15 on the receiving end of the fees, but if you're on the

16 paying end of the fees, choice can be pretty nice.

17 I believe that's all, so I would just like

18 to say that I'm in favor of it.

19 COMMISSIONER HANSEN: Let's see if we have

20 any questions.

21 Yes, Mr. Gallagher.

22

23

24

25

93

CSB REPORTING STEWART
Wilder, Idaho 83676 Public

1 CROSS-EXAMINATION

2

3 BY MR. GALLAGHER:

4 Q Two, Mr. Stewart. First is you would be in

5 favor of a ballot, ballot vote?

6 A Yes, I would be in favor of a ballot vote.

7 Q And secondly, do you have a rough idea, not

8 as an expert but just a rough idea, of the number of

9 people that have been at these two meetings versus the

10 number of people that have telephones in Teton Valley?

11 A No, but I know that they had a choice they

12 could make to come or not. At the last meeting I believe

13 there was approximately 275 by my count, that's

14 personally, that was here with 150 to 180 letters turned

15 in that night. Tonight I'm not sure how many people are

16 here, but they all had a choice. I also have two letters

17 of people who could not stay that they signed in favor of

18 the EAS they wanted me to present.

19 COMMISSIONER HANSEN: Any other questions?

20 I have one.

21

22

23

24

25

94

CSB REPORTING STEWART (X)
Wilder, Idaho 83676 Public

1 EXAMINATION

2

3 BY COMMISSIONER HANSEN:

4 Q Did I hear you correctly, you said you

5 delivered 130 letters the last time you were here?

6 A Approximately 130 letters in favor of EAS

7 the last time.

8 Q Do you think those people realize that the

9 rate now would be $24.10, whereas before when you got

10 those letters they probably didn't know for sure whether

11 it was going to be $5.00 or what the rate be, do you

12 think they're aware now that it's $24.10?

13 A At the last time we had a hearing we were

14 talking around 6 to $7.00 increase, somewhere in that

15 area, we didn't know. As those letters were gathered, we

16 talked to the people and told them that there's no way we

17 have of knowing, that that was an estimated guess of

18 approximately what it could be, and at the same time, it

19 was presented it could go more.

20 The people I have talked to on those

21 letters and that have talked to me and I think the

22 representation here tonight have said they don't care if

23 it's 15 to $18.00 a month, it would still be a benefit to

24 them and I believe that the majority of those letters

25 would definitely still be in favor of it based on the

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CSB REPORTING STEWART (Com)
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1 people I've talked to.

2 Q A follow-up, how come you had that many

3 people give you, make you available to their wishes by

4 giving you a letter? I mean, did you go out and solicit

5 their response or did they just happen to ask you to take

6 the letter or bring the letter to the hearing or what,

7 can you tell me?

8 A Yes, I could. We approached many people

9 and asked them if they would be in favor of this service.

10 We explained to them the information that we had at that

11 time and told them they could contact Teton Telecom if

12 they wanted to review their personal phone bills and any

13 information that they could gain from them. They've been

14 very cooperative in providing information to myself,

15 especially and, you know, to me they understood exactly

16 what they were doing, but we were soliciting, asking them

17 if you are in favor of it, would you be willing to sign a

18 letter and if you're against it, you can also sign a

19 letter and the people that turned the letters in to me

20 and asked me to bring them that night were all in favor

21 of it and the hearing that night, what, there was two or

22 three people against and the rest in favor.

23 COMMISSIONER HANSEN: Okay, thank you.

24 (The witness left the stand.)

25 COMMISSIONER HANSEN: Bill Moulton.

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Wilder, Idaho 83676 Public

1 BILL MOULTON,

2 appearing as a public witness, having been first duly

3 sworn, testified as follows:

4

5 THE WITNESS: My name is Bill Moulton,

6 M-o-u-l-t-o-n, Box 491, Driggs. I am a CPA, farmer,

7 father and child. All of those are pertinent to the

8 issue of whether or not I would be willing to increase my

9 phone bill. I currently have four phones, three

10 residential and one business. I would be very happy to

11 increase my phone bill. My base rate is $12.00. It

12 would be a savings of 40 to $50.00 per month for me.

13 As a CPA, I have several, well, probably 50

14 or 60 clients that live in the extended area service and

15 almost every contact I make with them constitutes at

16 least one phone call out and one phone call in and it

17 would be a profound help in that regard.

18 It would also help with family. I have a

19 son living in Pocatello who's kind of a techno geek and

20 one of his friends has available a very high speed ISP

21 for the Internet and he is waiting with anticipation of

22 being able to come into this market because then it would

23 be a local call.

24 One thing that I don't think we've heard

25 testimony of here tonight is that for almost every phone

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CSB REPORTING MOULTON
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1 call that goes out of this calling area there is an

2 incoming call from the extended area service and that,

3 too, probably has an impact on us.

4 As to address the question of whether or

5 not it would help business in Teton Valley, I think it

6 would dramatically help the businesses of Teton Valley,

7 particularly from areas of Ashton and Saint Anthony,

8 because those areas are not serviced by a lot of the

9 services that are provided here in Teton County. They

10 don't have, particularly Ashton doesn't have, the same

11 kind of health care that we have here.

12 To my knowledge, there are no

13 professionals, either legal or CPAs or others, and I have

14 quite a few clients from those areas that come this

15 direction and I think it would amaze us what the benefits

16 would be for business in Teton Valley to have phone calls

17 of a local nature from outside the area.

18 That's all my testimony.

19 COMMISSIONER SMITH: Let's see if there are

20 any questions.

21 Yes, Mr. Gallagher.

22

23

24

25

98

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1 CROSS-EXAMINATION

2

3 BY MR. GALLAGHER:

4 Q Mr. Moulton, this is a small aside, I hope

5 that's okay, you're a CPA?

6 A Correct.

7 Q In your experience, are business telephone

8 calls considered overhead for business and deductible?

9 A I think that's a ludicrous question. You

10 know the answer is yes. I don't know what you're trying

11 to set me up for.

12 Q That was it. It was just that honest, it

13 really was.

14 A I think we all know that and does it make

15 any great impact on the tax return? Not much.

16 COMMISSIONER SMITH: Other questions. No?

17 Thank you very much, Mr. Moulton, for your

18 testimony.

19 (The witness left the stand.)

20 COMMISSIONER SMITH: Next we have Gary

21 Grandy.

22

23

24

25

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CSB REPORTING MOULTON (X)
Wilder, Idaho 83676 Public

1 GARY GRANDY,

2 appearing as a public witness, having been first duly

3 sworn, testified as follows:

4

5 THE WITNESS: My name is Gary Grandy,

6 G-r-a-n-d-y. I live at 1076 South 100 West, Victor,

7 Idaho, 83455. I'm in favor of the extended area service,

8 the EAS. This was a request by 400 people, apparently,

9 from the valley. My concern is that the rates were set,

10 though, higher than they should be by Teton Telecom. I

11 think this is a travesty and I'm concerned as to whether

12 the Idaho Public Utilities Commission received budgets

13 and data and information that allowed them to say yes,

14 this rate of $24.00 was appropriate.

15 I think it is also unfortunate that there

16 has not been an explanation of the low income credit. If

17 that's based on the national poverty levels which are

18 published by the federal government, those are

19 available. I don't know what that's based on. I suspect

20 that it is on that. If it is, then I would also suspect

21 that the majority of the elderly people that really have

22 concerns about this increase would be eligible for the

23 $10.50 credit and I think that that information should be

24 put forth to the public.

25 It was mentioned by Mr. Hoopes this evening

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CSB REPORTING GRANDY
Wilder, Idaho 83676 Public

1 that they were spending one million dollars in this area,

2 but there was no mention as to what the revenues are

3 generated at the present time or will be generated and,

4 therefore, it's hard to know whether they're making money

5 or losing money. I know that most public utilities in

6 this country do make money, be it GTE, AT&T, U S WEST,

7 and if Teton Telecom is not making money, then they

8 should not be in the business.

9 I have in front of me a letter of

10 November 29th, 1996, when Montpelier, Idaho, and Preston,

11 Idaho, had hearings on this same matter and the proposed

12 increase was $5.51 for residential. Their current price

13 at that time was 10.17 and went to 15.68. The business

14 was at 26.16 and went up $5.00 to 31.24, so even though I

15 do support the EAS, I'm very concerned as to whether the

16 Idaho Public Utilities Commission has carefully

17 considered all of the dollar figures in setting this rate

18 and allowing it to be set at $24.00 and $42.00 and

19 whether the credit, tax credits have been properly

20 evaluated.

21 In the Teton Telecom statement of reasons

22 supporting the extended service area, they talk about the

23 $16.00 per month, but there was no mention about the $.03

24 for every minute after, what was it, 90 minutes or

25 something. I think that's putting out information that's

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CSB REPORTING GRANDY
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1 incorrect and I had to read about that in the newspaper

2 to learn about the $.03, so I hope that the Public

3 Utilities Commission will step back and make the right

4 decision, but that they evaluate the rates that have been

5 presented to them by this public utilities company, Teton

6 Telecom, because I think the people of this area deserve

7 an extended area.

8 It's a great world out there, folks, and

9 it's growing large and all of eastern Idaho and southern

10 Idaho needs to be in one area. I have family in Bear

11 Lake and I have family in Pocatello and I'm on a limited

12 income now, but I'm still in favor of it.

13 Thank you very much.

14 COMMISSIONER HANSEN: Thank you.

15 Let's see, do we have any questions?

16 Mr. Howell.

17

18 CROSS-EXAMINATION

19

20 BY MR. HOWELL:

21 Q Mr. Grandy, maybe I can just by way of a

22 question answer one of your questions. The Idaho

23 Legislature in late March authorized the new $10.50

24 credit for low income people. The Department of Health

25 and Welfare has to set the income level rate and they

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CSB REPORTING GRANDY (X)
Wilder, Idaho 83676 Public

1 have not set the income level rate and we don't know what

2 that income level rate will be, and we heard earlier

3 tonight that you don't have to be on welfare to be

4 eligible. We simply -- no one knows at this time what

5 that income rate will be. If we did, we would certainly

6 tell it to you.

7 The other reason, the other thing I might

8 add is the difference between when U S WEST does EAS and

9 when Teton does EAS, Teton recovers those costs from

10 3,000 customers and U S WEST recovers those costs from

11 350,000 customers.

12 A I understand and may I make one suggestion

13 and that would be that you consider that the people who

14 are on social security, if they do not have other income

15 over a certain amount, 5,000 or whatever, would be

16 eligible for the 10.50 credit. Thank you.

17 MR. HOWELL: And I would urge any

18 individual when those rules are promulgated by the

19 Department of Health and Welfare to let them know your

20 feelings.

21 COMMISSIONER HANSEN: Do we have any other

22 questions?

23 Thank you for your testimony.

24 (The witness left the stand.)

25 COMMISSIONER HANSEN: We have Bertha

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CSB REPORTING GRANDY (X)
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1 Gillette.

2

3 BERTHA GILLETTE,

4 appearing as a public witness, having been first duly

5 sworn, testified as follows:

6

7 THE WITNESS: My only concern is and I

8 don't believe --

9 MR. HOWELL: Ma'am, I need your name and

10 address for the record.

11 THE WITNESS: My name is Bertha Gillette,

12 G-i-l-l-e-t-t-e, and I live in Victor, Idaho,

13 P.O. Box 107, 83455. Now, my only concern is, and I

14 don't know that it's really been answered in the way I

15 would like it answered and LeAnn Bolton-Lewis asked the

16 same thing and I asked her if she was satisfied and she

17 said no, I'm not, and that is concerning why do we have

18 to have this 90 minutes put on to our local calls. If we

19 have a family, which I don't with children, but somebody

20 else mentioned this, if you have a lot of children or if

21 there are even grown-ups in the home and it's necessary

22 to use that phone more than that 90 minutes, that's only

23 an hour-and-a-half a month, and I take care of, at least

24 I call, four elderly individuals each day to check on

25 them and see how they're doing.

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CSB REPORTING GILLETTE
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1 Sometimes I have to bring them to the

2 doctor, I have to get their medication, I have to get

3 their groceries and this is a concern of mine is how I'm

4 going to do all of this and still help take care of those

5 elderly people. I know some time it's going to be my

6 time soon and so I don't know who will be looking after

7 me, but anyway, I do feel that this 90 minutes is a

8 disgrace to us. Why do we have to have that 90 minutes?

9 Why do we have to have that extra money?

10 COMMISSIONER HANSEN: Is that your

11 statement?

12 THE WITNESS: Yes.

13 COMMISSIONER HANSEN: Okay, do we have any

14 questions?

15 Mr. McClure.

16

17 CROSS-EXAMINATION

18

19 BY MR. McCLURE:

20 Q Ma'am, do you understand that you have two

21 choices should this extended area service be approved by

22 the Commission? The first choice would be for $24.10 a

23 month, you would have the right to make an unlimited

24 number of minutes of calls. You could stay on the phone

25 all day long. If, however, you wanted a lower phone

105

CSB REPORTING GILLETTE (X)
Wilder, Idaho 83676 Public

1 bill, you could choose a different option for $16.00 a

2 month for 90 minutes plus $.03 for each minute after

3 that, so you as a consumer would be able to choose which

4 plan to have, if you want an unlimited calling plan or if

5 you want a cheaper plan for lower use. I don't know if

6 you understood that, but I'll make a question, do you?

7 A Well, I don't understand it and I really

8 don't know how I would come to that conclusion until I

9 would see my phone bill each month.

10 COMMISSIONER HANSEN: Mr. McClure?

11 MR. McCLURE: If I can answer her.

12 Q BY MR. McCLURE: You would have a choice,

13 you would have an option, to choose one or the other, so

14 it would be up to you.

15 A How would I know which option? Would I

16 have a letter sent to me to let me know or what?

17 Q Yes, ma'am.

18 A Okay, thank you.

19 COMMISSIONER HANSEN: Are there any other

20 questions?

21 Yes, Mr. Gallagher.

22

23

24

25

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Wilder, Idaho 83676 Public

1 CROSS-EXAMINATION

2

3 BY MR. GALLAGHER:

4 Q Ms. Gillette, is maybe a different way to

5 say what you've been asking that you would rather see an

6 option that gave you unlimited in the valley local

7 calling to help you with these elderly women?

8 A Yes, I would feel that, so maybe if I don't

9 understand it, I can ask Mr. Gallagher and he can help

10 me.

11 COMMISSIONER HANSEN: Any other questions?

12 Thank you for your testimony.

13 THE WITNESS: Thank you.

14 (The witness left the stand.)

15 COMMISSIONER HANSEN: We now have Veronica

16 Fullmer.

17

18 VERONICA FULLMER,

19 appearing as a public witness, having been first duly

20 sworn, testified as follows:

21

22 THE WITNESS: My name is Veronica Fullmer,

23 F-u-l-l-m-e-r. My address is P.O. Box 148, Driggs,

24 Idaho. I would like to go on record as being very much

25 in favor of this area. I have several children that live

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CSB REPORTING FULLMER
Wilder, Idaho 83676 Public

1 in the lower valley and my mother as well who is

2 elderly. It would benefit me greatly to be able to call

3 them more than I am at this point. It would also benefit

4 them to be able to call me. It's long distance for them

5 to call me.

6 I won't say much more. My husband and I

7 have a farm. In the summer we have to call out almost

8 daily for different things, for parts and things, and it

9 would benefit us greatly to have this EAS area and I'm

10 very much in favor of it.

11 COMMISSIONER SMITH: Are there any

12 questions?

13 No? We thank you very much for your

14 testimony.

15 (The witness left the stand.)

16 COMMISSIONER SMITH: Delva Jones.

17

18 DELVA BURGENER,

19 appearing as a public witness, having been first duly

20 sworn, testified as follows:

21

22 THE WITNESS: It's actually Delva Burgener,

23 B-u-r-g-e-n-e-r, and I just want to say I'm definitely in

24 favor of it. I'll keep it short and sweet. That's it.

25 COMMISSIONER SMITH: Are there any

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CSB REPORTING BURGENER
Wilder, Idaho 83676 Public

1 questions?

2 MR. HOWELL: I need your address.

3 THE WITNESS: Oh, it's Post Office

4 Box 1145, Driggs, sorry.

5 COMMISSIONER SMITH: We thank you very much

6 for coming tonight.

7 (The witness left the stand.)

8 COMMISSIONER SMITH: Chuck Irwin. Maybe he

9 had to leave.

10 Marlene Hansen.

11

12 MARLENE HANSEN,

13 appearing as a public witness, having been first duly

14 sworn, testified as follows:

15

16 THE WITNESS: Marlene Hansen, H-a-n-s-e-n,

17 618 North 50 West, Tetonia, Idaho, and I'll keep it short

18 and sweet, too. I'm in favor of it and thank you.

19 COMMISSIONER SMITH: Are there any

20 questions?

21 No? Thank you very much.

22 (The witness left the stand.)

23 COMMISSIONER SMITH: Toni Hill. We did

24 her?

25 Bob Pfaltz. Did I come close?

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CSB REPORTING HANSEN
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1 MR. PFALTZ: It was close.

2

3 BOB PFALTZ,

4 appearing as a public witness, having been first duly

5 sworn, testified as follows:

6

7 THE WITNESS: My name is Bob Pfaltz.

8 That's B-o-b P-f-a-l-t-z. I wanted to state that --

9 COMMISSIONER SMITH: Mr. Pfaltz, we need

10 your address, too.

11 THE WITNESS: Oh, P.O. Box 279, Driggs,

12 Idaho. I want to state that I'm unwilling to pay for the

13 EAS and I had a question for the Commissioners and that

14 is, is the IPUC in favor of Teton Telecom having this

15 EAS?

16 COMMISSIONER SMITH: Well, since we've

17 issued an order granting it, I think that was the

18 decision that we made based on the testimony and the

19 petitions that were presented to us earlier.

20 THE WITNESS: Why are they in favor of it?

21 COMMISSIONER SMITH: Mr. Howell, could you

22 get him a copy of our Order?

23 THE WITNESS: Briefly, could you --

24 COMMISSIONER SMITH: No, I don't think

25 we're going to take time to read the Order tonight, but

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CSB REPORTING PFALTZ
Wilder, Idaho 83676 Public

1 the Commission makes, all of its decisions are expressed

2 in a written order, so Mr. Howell can get you a copy of

3 the Order and you can read that and then if you have

4 questions, you can call. I think that's the most

5 efficient way to handle that.

6 THE WITNESS: Is it going to be a toll

7 call?

8 COMMISSIONER SMITH: We have an 800 number.

9 Are there any questions?

10 Thank you very much.

11 (The witness left the stand.)

12 COMMISSIONER SMITH: Diane Hawkins.

13

14 DIANE HAWKINS,

15 appearing as a public witness, having been first duly

16 sworn, testified as follows:

17

18 THE WITNESS: My name is Diane Hawkins,

19 H-a-w-k-i-n-s, 944 South Highway 31, Victor. I just want

20 to state in behalf of myself and my brother who wanted to

21 be here who owns a business in Victor, my parents of whom

22 I'm a part of owns a business in Victor and who I take

23 care of their financial situation while they're currently

24 in the Philippines for the next 15 months, we are

25 definitely in favor of EAS.

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CSB REPORTING HAWKINS
Wilder, Idaho 83676 Public

1 It would be a great savings to their

2 businesses and just in my residential, it would be a

3 great savings to us, also. I also feel like as much they

4 use, have people call them and they call out, I think it

5 would increase maybe not my brother's business who owns

6 the gas station in Victor, but my parents' business who

7 have a taxidermy shop in Victor, it would increase their

8 business, I have no question of that.

9 COMMISSIONER SMITH: Are there any

10 questions?

11 Mr. Gallagher.

12

13 CROSS-EXAMINATION

14

15 BY MR. GALLAGHER:

16 Q Ms. Hawkins, would you be in favor of

17 having the issue on a ballot that could be sent out to

18 each telephone owner?

19 A Well, I would be in favor, but I would like

20 to get this on now. I don't want to wait personally.

21 COMMISSIONER SMITH: Thank you very much

22 for your testimony.

23 (The witness left the stand.)

24 COMMISSIONER SMITH: Vancie Turner.

25

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CSB REPORTING HAWKINS (X)
Wilder, Idaho 83676 Public

1 VANCIE TURNER,

2 appearing as a public witness, having been first duly

3 sworn, testified as follows:

4

5 THE WITNESS: Vancie Turner, T-u-r-n-e-r,

6 P.O. Box 307, Driggs, and I would like to go on record as

7 against the EAS. It wouldn't benefit me at all. I would

8 really like to see an option. It's clear there are a lot

9 of people here that would, it would benefit and there's a

10 lot of people here that it would not benefit and I just

11 think rather than having your rates go up $16.00 or

12 $24.00, it would be just as easy to have it not go up at

13 all and pay long distance if that's, you know, more

14 financially satisfactory to you.

15 COMMISSIONER SMITH: Do we have any

16 questions?

17 No? We thank you very much for your

18 testimony.

19 (The witness left the stand.)

20 COMMISSIONER SMITH: Bill Bruce.

21

22

23

24

25

113

CSB REPORTING TURNER
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1 BILL BRUCE,

2 appearing as a public witness, having been first duly

3 sworn, testified as follows:

4

5 THE WITNESS: My name is Bill Bruce,

6 B-r-u-c-e, P.O. Box 95, Driggs, Idaho, 83422. I have

7 mixed feelings for both sides. I feel that the EAS is

8 needed and is beneficial to more the majority rather than

9 a minority and I'm willing to go for it; however, I do

10 feel that businesses with multiple lines should have a

11 sliding scale to where they're not charged, I think

12 that's a big bite, or for residential multiple lines to

13 have to pay the full rate for each line, I think there

14 should be a sliding scale for multiple lines there.

15 Also, I feel that the people on minimum and

16 fixed income should get a better break and have the

17 benefit of the EAS because there's many times that they

18 have an emergency that they have to contact people out of

19 the area, especially for medical reasons as well as

20 personal and family.

21 I guess that just about sums it up and I

22 think that there's enough majority that have shown their

23 opinions and beliefs in this being beneficial. We don't

24 need to go through a whole other ramification of voting

25 or other meetings. I think we either got to accept it or

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CSB REPORTING BRUCE
Wilder, Idaho 83676 Public

1 take it -- personally accept it or discount it and take

2 it as it comes.

3 Thank you.

4 COMMISSIONER SMITH: Are there any

5 questions?

6 Thank you very much.

7 (The witness left the stand.)

8 COMMISSIONER SMITH: J. D. Winder.

9

10 J. D. WINDER,

11 appearing as a public witness, having been first duly

12 sworn, testified as follows:

13

14 THE WITNESS: My name is J. D. Winder,

15 W-i-n-d-e-r. I live at 158 South 100 East, Driggs,

16 Idaho. I would just like to say personally I'm in favor

17 of the EAS, many reasons for it. Personally, I have

18 family that are in Jackson and stuff that I do call them

19 frequently and this won't help me there, but I also have

20 friends and family in Idaho Falls and Rexburg and stuff

21 where it will also benefit me. It won't benefit me a

22 lot. I figure it will save me about 15 to $20.00 on my

23 personal phone bill.

24 Speaking as a member of Hillman's

25 Management, this is something that -- we have a lot of

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CSB REPORTING WINDER
Wilder, Idaho 83676 Public

1 Associated people that we deal with in Pocatello, which a

2 lot of those numbers are all 1-800 numbers, but we also

3 have to pay Associated to be a member of them and part of

4 that that we pay for is paying for those 800 numbers.

5 There's also -- we send off public faxes

6 for people which if it's in a local calling area, we

7 charge less than if it's a long distance call which in

8 turn also would help other individuals.

9 Another personal experience, there's also

10 been times where medically-wise we have went to the local

11 people first and said -- as an example, my daughter

12 needed some medication and our local provider didn't have

13 it and she needed it now and I had to make a long

14 distance phone call to the pharmacies outside of the

15 valley to find that prescription so I could go and pick

16 it up.

17 Another little comment, we had an

18 individual talk about his Internet service and how it

19 cost him a lot. I understand it will cost him a lot for

20 those lines, but I also understand that he's going to

21 have access to thousands of more possible customers that

22 will look at him instead of other Internet providers, and

23 that's all I have to say.

24 COMMISSIONER HANSEN: Okay, do we have any

25 questions?

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CSB REPORTING WINDER
Wilder, Idaho 83676 Public

1 Okay, thank you for your testimony.

2 (The witness left the stand.)

3 COMMISSIONER HANSEN: We now have Lorna

4 Fullmer.

5

6 LORNA FULLMER,

7 appearing as a public witness, having been first duly

8 sworn, testified as follows:

9

10 THE WITNESS: I'm not much of a speaker and

11 I told Dennis, I said, "I'll sign my name, but don't call

12 on me," but he did anyway, but anyway --

13 COMMISSIONER SMITH: We need you to state

14 your name.

15 THE WITNESS: Oh, my name, Lorna Fullmer,

16 L-o-r-n-a F-u-l-l-m-e-r.

17 MR. HOWELL: And your address, ma'am?

18 THE WITNESS: Box 133, Tetonia, Idaho.

19 MR. HOWELL: And your statement.

20 THE WITNESS: I want you to know that I am

21 in favor of it. It won't only benefit me, but it will

22 benefit my family and a lot of other people that I call

23 and as some of you, I know it won't benefit some of you,

24 but we're all in this together. I don't have children in

25 school, but I pay taxes and you probably have children in

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CSB REPORTING FULLMER
Wilder, Idaho 83676 Public

1 school, so I think that we have to kind of look out for

2 each other in this valley, and if we let this pass by, we

3 may not get a chance again. We'll be sort of an isolated

4 place and so I am really in favor of it.

5 COMMISSIONER HANSEN: Thank you.

6 Do we have any questions?

7 Thank you for your testimony.

8 (The witness left the stand.)

9 COMMISSIONER HANSEN: And I apologize for

10 calling on you, but you did a great job, so I'm glad I

11 did.

12 Lorene Moffit.

13

14 LORENE MOFFIT,

15 appearing as a public witness, having been first duly

16 sworn, testified as follows:

17

18 THE WITNESS: Lorene Moffit, Box 531,

19 Driggs, Idaho. I'm Lorna's sister, so I'm in favor of

20 this, too, and I think it will benefit all of us. You

21 know, we all have to see an increase in everything that

22 comes along almost, so if we have a little increase in

23 this, I don't think it's going to break all of us, but

24 I'm definitely in favor of this EAS.

25 Thank you.

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1 COMMISSIONER HANSEN: Thank you.

2 Do we have any questions?

3 Thank you for your testimony.

4 (The witness left the stand.)

5 COMMISSIONER HANSEN: Naoma Ringel.

6

7 NAOMA RINGEL,

8 appearing as a public witness, having been first duly

9 sworn, testified as follows:

10

11 THE WITNESS: My name is Naoma Ringel,

12 R-i-n-g-e-l, Post Office Box 496, Driggs, and I just want

13 to say that I am in favor of this motion and that I agree

14 with many of the things that have been said. Lorna, you

15 did do a good job. You said a lot for the senior

16 citizens and I know that it will benefit me a lot. I'm

17 not going to bore you with my statistics, but they're

18 similar to what others have said and I do agree with

19 this.

20 COMMISSIONER HANSEN: Okay, do we have any

21 questions?

22 Yes, Commissioner Smith.

23

24

25

119

CSB REPORTING RINGEL
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1 EXAMINATION

2

3 BY COMMISSIONER SMITH:

4 Q I guess I was just wanting to get your

5 opinion. A lot of times when we are concerned with

6 people on fixed or low income, we are thinking of senior

7 citizens, but you just testified you think this would be

8 a benefit to them and I just want to confirm that seniors

9 may have limited or fix incomes, but you still believe

10 that they will benefit from this?

11 A I do, I really do. Yes, I do.

12 COMMISSIONER SMITH: Okay, thank you.

13 COMMISSIONER HANSEN: Thank you for your

14 testimony.

15 (The witness left the stand.)

16 COMMISSIONER HANSEN: We have Gordon

17 Goodell.

18

19 GORDON GOODELL,

20 appearing as a public witness, having been first duly

21 sworn, testified as follows:

22

23 MR. HOWELL: I need your name and address

24 and could you spell your last name, please?

25 THE WITNESS: Okay, it's Gordon Goodell,

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1 G-o-o-d-e-l-l, 89 West 300 South, Victor. I just have

2 two things to say. First of all, I think there's a bit

3 of a misunderstanding here tonight and you may have

4 inadvertently promoted this. The 24.10 price was

5 referred to as a cap by someone earlier and it's not. We

6 should all realize it's not a cap, so to ask us for a

7 spring of '99 comparison to compare 24.10 to $22.00 I

8 don't think is fair because we all know the 24.10 will go

9 up in a year as well or may very well, and the second

10 thing is that I'm not willing to pay for this.

11 COMMISSIONER HANSEN: Do we have any

12 questions?

13 Yes, Mr. Gallagher.

14 MR. GALLAGHER: This isn't to Gordon

15 specifically, but it might be a time to ask, would any

16 future price increase be regulated through the IPUC?

17 COMMISSIONER HANSEN: I'm sorry, I was

18 trying to get your mike turned up a little bit. Would

19 you repeat that again, please?

20 MR. GALLAGHER: My question is would any

21 future price increase from Teton Telecom go through the

22 IPUC? When this price freeze goes off, it would be in

23 front of the Commission and regulated by the Commission?

24 COMMISSIONER HANSEN: It would, as long as

25 the PUC regulates the telecommunications company in this

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1 area or in Idaho it would. If eventually you were to get

2 to a competitive environment which Congress passed the

3 Telecommunications Act of '96 and eventually it would be

4 determined that you had competition in the area, then

5 regulation as far as pricing would be gone.

6 MR. GALLAGHER: Right, we would have a

7 choice, then.

8 COMMISSIONER HANSEN: But for the time

9 being, any increase would have to be approved by the

10 Public Utilities Commission.

11 MR. GALLAGHER: Okay, thank you.

12 COMMISSIONER HANSEN: Any other questions?

13 I might just comment on the question that

14 you had made or your comment earlier. You are correct

15 that I believe in the statement Teton Telecom stated that

16 if they got this, they wouldn't ask for an increase until

17 in 1999, is that correct, and so what I was comparing was

18 the possibility if they didn't after the rate freeze, if

19 they were to go for Universal Service, I was just trying

20 to find out in that area if they would be doing that.

21 That's speculative, but you are correct, they could ask

22 for an increase. If this was granted, the 24.10, later

23 on in 1999 or the year 2000 or whatever if they had a

24 deficiency in their revenue and they weren't earning a

25 fair rate of return, they would have the right to

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1 petition the PUC for an increase.

2 THE WITNESS: My understanding was that the

3 proposed $22.00, increase to $22.00 without the extended

4 area would be to take us to 125 percent of the Idaho

5 average so that we would be eligible for that funding, in

6 which case any increase after that point would be

7 regulated in the same way as Mr. Gallagher is referring

8 to, right, it would have to come before the Commission.

9 COMMISSIONER HANSEN: They would, but

10 without charging that rate, they would not qualify for

11 any Idaho Universal Service Funding money.

12 Are there any other questions?

13 Thank you for your testimony.

14 (The witness left the stand.)

15 COMMISSIONER HANSEN: We now have Del

16 Fullmer.

17

18 DEL FULLMER,

19 appearing as a public witness, having been first duly

20 sworn, testified as follows:

21

22 THE WITNESS: My name is Del Fullmer,

23 F-u-l-l-m-e-r. My residence is 29 West 200 South,

24 Driggs, Idaho. I am in favor of the extended area

25 service. It would benefit me personally. It would

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CSB REPORTING FULLMER
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1 benefit my business and it would benefit my children who

2 live out of the area calling to me. They are also on a

3 very limited income trying to go to college. Them being

4 able to call me would be very beneficial.

5 There's a lot of benefit to the community

6 that would be added by this EAS, in my opinion, from a

7 business standpoint allowing the local businesses the

8 opportunity to shop the outlying areas where they bring

9 supplies into this area to redistribute them in this

10 area. I think it's my opinion that there's been a lot of

11 lobbying that should have gone to the senators and

12 congressmen to support putting it on a ballot. This is

13 not the way this PUC works.

14 I wish we would have been able to have

15 limited testimony to start with instead of having a

16 filibuster so we could get back to work, some of us that

17 still have work to do. We had to quit working in the

18 middle of the day to get to this meeting. I am in favor

19 of the EAS and that's basically my testimony.

20 COMMISSIONER HANSEN: Okay, let's see, do

21 we have any questions?

22 Thank you for your testimony.

23 (The witness left the stand.)

24 COMMISSIONER HANSEN: We have Scott Bohr.

25

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1 SCOTT BOHR,

2 appearing as a public witness, having been first duly

3 sworn, testified as follows:

4

5 THE WITNESS: My name is Scott Bohr,

6 B-o-h-r. My residence is 70 South 1st East in Driggs,

7 Idaho. I was here at the last meeting and I was one of

8 three out of about 400 that were opposed and I still feel

9 the same way. I don't feel like I should subsidize to

10 have people chat with their loved ones in far away

11 cities, Pocatello and whatnot, and also I don't like

12 wearing suits and I think blue jeans are appropriate.

13 That's all I have to say.

14 COMMISSIONER HANSEN: Do we have any

15 questions?

16 Thank you for your testimony.

17 (The witness left the stand.)

18 COMMISSIONER HANSEN: I've used the

19 assistance of my fellow Commissioner, we're having

20 trouble with this last name, so it's Carolee that lives

21 at 788 South --

22 MS. FLAHERTY: It's just Carole.

23

24

25

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1 CAROLE FLAHERTY,

2 appearing as a public witness, having been first duly

3 sworn, testified as follows:

4

5 THE WITNESS: My name is Carole Flaherty,

6 F-l-a-h-e-r-t-y, 788 South 450 West. I am not in favor

7 of the EAS. It will not benefit my family and I'm not

8 willing to pay for it.

9 Thank you.

10 COMMISSIONER HANSEN: Do we have any

11 questions?

12 Thank you for your testimony.

13 (The witness left the stand.)

14 COMMISSIONER HANSEN: We now have JoAnne

15 Lucey.

16

17 JOANNE LUCEY,

18 appearing as a public witness, having been first duly

19 sworn, testified as follows:

20

21 THE WITNESS: JoAnne Lucey, L-u-c-e-y,

22 52 North 275 East, Driggs. I am not in favor of the

23 EAS. It will not benefit me. I'm a small business

24 owner, so I have a home phone and a business line as well

25 and I would like to see this as an option, not as

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Wilder, Idaho 83676 Public

1 mandatory.

2 COMMISSIONER HANSEN: Do we have any

3 questions?

4 Thank you for your testimony.

5 (The witness left the stand.)

6 COMMISSIONER HANSEN: Roy Moulton.

7

8 ROY MOULTON,

9 appearing as a public witness, having been first duly

10 sworn, testified as follows:

11

12 THE WITNESS: Roy Moulton, Post Office

13 Box 631, Driggs, Idaho, Moulton, M-o-u-l-t-o-n. I'm in

14 favor of the EAS for all of the reasons that have been

15 previously stated. One thing that I would find as a huge

16 anomaly if this wasn't passed is if Teton County would be

17 isolated in this whole otherwise big area of extended

18 area service and I really think that that would have huge

19 business impacts on us if everyone from Preston to Ashton

20 is included in an EAS and we're left out on this little

21 island calling long distance.

22 I have to wonder if I live in the same

23 community or in the same world economically and so forth

24 as some of the people who have testified against it. I

25 really have a hard time believing that people use their

127

CSB REPORTING MOULTON
Wilder, Idaho 83676 Public

1 phone so little that the EAS doesn't benefit them at the

2 $25.00 proposed rate and yet they use it so much just

3 within Driggs that the 15 or $16.00 rate wouldn't be to

4 their advantage. That having been said, when you get

5 this on the ballot, please put milk and sugar and cereal

6 on that same ballot.

7 That's all.

8 COMMISSIONER HANSEN: Let's see if we have

9 any questions.

10 Yes, Mr. Gallagher.

11 MR. GALLAGHER: I didn't understand the

12 milk and sugar analogy there.

13 THE WITNESS: It was tongue and cheek.

14 MR. GALLAGHER: Nice boots.

15 THE WITNESS: Thanks.

16 COMMISSIONER HANSEN: Any other questions?

17 Thank you for your testimony.

18 (The witness left the stand.)

19 COMMISSIONER HANSEN: Shana Mickelsen.

20

21

22

23

24

25

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CSB REPORTING MOULTON
Wilder, Idaho 83676 Public

1 SHANA MICKELSEN,

2 appearing as a public witness, having been first duly

3 sworn, testified as follows:

4

5 THE WITNESS: Shana Mickelsen,

6 M-i-c-k-e-l-s-e-n, 200 North 400 West, Tetonia, and I'm

7 for the extended service. I came to the last meeting and

8 I came to this one and neither one did I want to talk at,

9 but I do want you to know that I am for it.

10 COMMISSIONER HANSEN: Do we have any

11 questions?

12 Thank you very much for your testimony.

13 (The witness left the stand.)

14 COMMISSIONER HANSEN: Gisela Kunz.

15

16 GISELA KUNZ,

17 appearing as a public witness, having been first duly

18 sworn, testified as follows:

19

20 THE WITNESS: My name is Gisela Kunz,

21 G-i-s-e-l-a K-u-n-z, and I am in favor. I have a family

22 that now lives within this area and I would like to be

23 able to keep in touch with them and I've lived in this

24 valley for 40 years and this is one of the luxuries I'd

25 like to be able to accord myself and I think I will be

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CSB REPORTING KUNZ
Wilder, Idaho 83676 Public

1 benefited from it.

2 Thank you.

3 COMMISSIONER HANSEN: Thank you.

4 Do we have any questions?

5 Thank you for your testimony.

6 (The witness left the stand.)

7 COMMISSIONER HANSEN: Kathleen Eagan.

8

9 KATHLEEN EGAN,

10 appearing as a public witness, having been first duly

11 sworn, testified as follows:

12

13 THE WITNESS: My name is Kathleen Egan,

14 E-g-a-n, and my address is Box 494, Victor, and I am not

15 willing to pay for this. I have a business phone and a

16 personal phone and I don't ever call these areas and I

17 would also like to see it as an option, and that's all,

18 tired.

19 COMMISSIONER HANSEN: Do we have any

20 questions?

21 Thank you for your testimony.

22 (The witness left the stand.)

23 COMMISSIONER HANSEN: Unless I have skipped

24 over someone or someone crossed their name out or got

25 their name crossed out, I've gone through the list, is

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CSB REPORTING EGAN
Wilder, Idaho 83676 Public

1 there anyone that I've missed or anyone that would like

2 to come forth and testify that maybe didn't sign up?

3 Yes, if you would like to come forward,

4 ma'am, and you can be sworn in and then state your name

5 and anybody else, we'll give you a chance if you didn't

6 sign up.

7

8 GRETCHEN NOTZOLD,

9 appearing as a public witness, having been first duly

10 sworn, testified as follows:

11

12 THE WITNESS: Gretchen Notzold,

13 G-r-e-t-c-h-e-n N-o-t-z-o-l-d, 397 West 575 South,

14 Victor. I personally think all of you should be wearing

15 skirts. Anyway, I'm against the EAS and as it appears to

16 boil down for everyone in terms of money, I can't afford

17 it and I think it's interesting how we talk about this

18 being a democracy and the majority should rule over the

19 minority. In some cases, I think that's true, but in

20 this situation I don't think that that even has to be the

21 issue.

22 I think that there's a third alternative.

23 Once again, I think it could be an option. I think in a

24 democracy, also besides majority versus minority, there's

25 also equality, fairness, a lot of other issues. It isn't

131

CSB REPORTING NOTZOLD
Wilder, Idaho 83676 Public

1 fair to make people who won't use this plan pay so that

2 other people can, just as it isn't fair for me to have

3 people here to pay for my calls to Michigan to talk to my

4 relatives.

5 I think the EAS would benefit a great deal

6 of people. I lived in a community in Michigan where I

7 had an option to call long distance to my relatives who

8 only lived five miles away which I chose to do because I

9 talked to them a lot, but I didn't think that it was fair

10 for my neighbors to have to pay, you know, for a blanket

11 sort of a plan to enable me to call when they wouldn't be

12 able to, so I don't think that it's fair for me to have

13 to pay for other folks to call out of this town.

14 I call Idaho Falls 10 times a year, maybe,

15 maybe not even that much, so I have no need for it. I

16 think other people do and they should have that option.

17 COMMISSIONER HANSEN: Let's see if we have

18 any questions.

19 Commissioner Smith.

20

21

22

23

24

25

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Wilder, Idaho 83676 Public

1 EXAMINATION

2

3 BY COMMISSIONER SMITH:

4 Q I'm just curious whether your concern over

5 affordability is for your residential phone or is it for

6 business?

7 A It's for a residential phone. Also, with

8 the measured service, that would provide me with even

9 less than I get now for more money. For 90 minutes a

10 month, my children, I have two little girls who call

11 their father every night or call me every night when

12 they're with their father, that would limit our calls to

13 each other. He would certainly be on the measured

14 service and I would be, too, so that limits a lot of my

15 communication right here in the valley.

16 COMMISSIONER HANSEN: Thank you very much

17 for your testimony.

18 (The witness left the stand.)

19 COMMISSIONER HANSEN: Yes, sir, if you'd

20 like to come forward.

21

22

23

24

25

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Wilder, Idaho 83676 Public

1 DEE O'BRIEN,

2 appearing as a public witness, having been first duly

3 sworn, testified as follows:

4

5 THE WITNESS: Dee O'Brien, D-e-e

6 O'-B-r-i-e-n. I live at 58 South 3rd East, Driggs,

7 Idaho, and I'd like to testify in behalf of the EAS. I

8 hope you'll take into consideration the testimony that

9 has been given previously in November on behalf of the

10 school district and the medical facilities that we have

11 here in Teton Valley. I was in hopes that Mr. Woolley,

12 someone representing the school, would be here.

13 I am a teacher at Teton High School and

14 during the break I just went in and checked long distance

15 calls over the past week and as a coach, I was

16 particularly concerned about calls for scheduling and

17 those types of things. Of the 32 long distance calls

18 that were made by coaches or school personnel, 26 of

19 those went to the area that would be covered by the EAS

20 and so it would mean a big savings for taxpayers of the

21 local school district.

22 I am grateful as a patron of this district

23 for those that had the foresight enough and were willing

24 even though they don't have kids in school, those that

25 voted for a new high school, that they didn't say, well,

134

CSB REPORTING O'BRIEN
Wilder, Idaho 83676 Public

1 my kids are grown, we're not going to have a benefit.

2 They took the concerns and needs of the community into

3 their own concerns and voted for a school bond, and I

4 know that there are people that feel that we should have

5 a choice, but having been a resident of Teton Valley for

6 50 years and have seen the progress here, I think this is

7 something that would greatly aid the community as a whole

8 and I'm definitely in favor of the EAS.

9 COMMISSIONER HANSEN: Okay, let's see if we

10 have any questions for the coach.

11 I guess I just have to ask you one, will

12 EAS make your winning record better or worse?

13 THE WITNESS: It will make it easier to

14 call those winning coaches in Idaho Falls and get some

15 tips without costing the taxpayers money.

16 COMMISSIONER HANSEN: Thank you.

17 (The witness left the stand.)

18 COMMISSIONER HANSEN: Do we have anyone

19 else?

20 Yes, sir, if you would like to come

21 forward.

22

23

24

25

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1 JACK HANSEN,

2 appearing as a public witness, having been first duly

3 sworn, testified as follows:

4

5 THE WITNESS: My name is Jack Hansen,

6 H-a-n-s-e-n. I live at 300 South 90 East. I personally

7 am for this. I think that we're kind of mistaken about

8 thinking about the older people can't afford this much

9 for a telephone call because almost all of them has got

10 kids and there's nothing in the valley that's kept them

11 and they all live away and they call them and a lot of

12 them is in this calling area.

13 Personally, I've got, I guess I've got five

14 kids and four of them that lives in this calling area, so

15 you see, I've got a good reason for it, but I do think

16 that it's hard on kids going to college that they can't

17 call home and report what's going on and most all the

18 kids from this country that's going to college is kind of

19 on a budget because there's not much money here and I

20 think a lot of the folks that has testified here is

21 probably working in Jackson, they're not making their

22 money here and so I never talked -- I've been around for

23 a long time, I'm not going to say how long but quite

24 awhile and I've got a lot of friends and I have not

25 talked to but one that was against it.

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CSB REPORTING HANSEN
Wilder, Idaho 83676 Public

1 Now, of course, I don't talk to the younger

2 generation very much. I mean, there's a few that I know,

3 but not too many of them, but the older generation is for

4 it, I'll guarantee you that and I thank you.

5 COMMISSIONER HANSEN: Let's see, do we have

6 any questions?

7 Thank you for your testimony.

8 (The witness left the stand.)

9 COMMISSIONER HANSEN: Do we have anyone

10 else?

11 Okay, yes, ma'am, if you would like to come

12 forward.

13

14 DORIS STEWART,

15 appearing as a public witness, having been first duly

16 sworn, testified as follows:

17

18 THE WITNESS: My name is Doris Stewart,

19 S-t-e-w-a-r-t, and I live at 220, Tetonia. I'm a senior

20 citizen and I am for this. I've lived in this valley 72

21 years and in that time I've learned you can't slice

22 anything so thin there isn't two sides to it and we can

23 have meetings and have meetings and there will still be

24 two sides, so let's settle it and have it.

25 COMMISSIONER HANSEN: We just might have a

137

CSB REPORTING STEWART
Wilder, Idaho 83676 Public

1 question for you, you're pretty fast trying to get out of

2 here. Now I'm hoping somebody has a question.

3 Does anybody have a question?

4 Okay, you're pretty lucky.

5 (The witness left the stand.)

6 COMMISSIONER HANSEN: Do we have anyone

7 else? Okay, well, we appreciate you all coming out and

8 you people that have stayed until the final end and this

9 will complete our hearing here this evening and it will

10 complete the hearing on this case. The Commission will

11 deliberate on this and we will have an order out in the

12 near future.

13 Before we adjourn, I would just like to ask

14 one question, does anybody know whether the Jazz won

15 tonight? Shoot, okay. All right, with that, the meeting

16 is adjourned. Thank you.

17 (The Hearing adjourned at 10:30 p.m.)

18

19

20

21

22

23

24

25

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CSB REPORTING COLLOQUY
Wilder, Idaho 83676

1 AUTHENTICATION

2

3

4 This is to certify that the foregoing

5 proceedings held in the matter of the petition from

6 residents of Teton County requesting extended area

7 service (EAS) to the greater Idaho Falls area, commencing

8 at 7:10 p.m., on Tuesday, May 5, 1998, at the Teton High

9 School Auditorium, 41 North Main, Driggs, Idaho, is a

10 true and correct transcript of said proceedings and the

11 original thereof for the file of the Commission.

12

13

14

15
CONSTANCE S. BUCY
16 Certified Shorthand Reporter #187

17

18

19

20

21

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25

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CSB REPORTING AUTHENTICATION
Wilder, Idaho 83676