20180705Public Hearing Transcript Vol III.pdf

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BEFORE THE ]DAHO PUBLIC UTILITIES COMM]SS]ON
IN THE MATTER OF THE
JOINT APPLICATION OF
HYDRO ONE LIMITED AND
AVISTA CORPOR,ATION
FOR APPROVAL OF MERGER
AGREEMENT
REPORTED BY:
JULIE MCCAUGHAN, C.S.R. NO. 684
Notary Publ-ic
CASE NO. AVU-E-17-09
AVU-G-17-05
TRANSCRIPT OF PUBL]C HEARING
HELD ON ,JUNE L4, 2078
AT THE MIDTOWN CENTER MEETING ROOM
1505 NORTH 5TH STREET
coEUR D'!ALENE, ]DAHO
6:00 P.M.
BEEORE COMMISSIONER PAUL KJELLANDER
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Excellence in Court Reporting Since 7970
Coeur d'Alene, ldaho
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Boise, ldaho
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PAUL KJELLANDER: Good evening, Iadies and
gentlemen. If we could hopefully try to get as many
seated as we can, we'l-l- hopefully cease some of the
conversations and see if we can't get the public hearing
started this evening.
This is the time and place for a public
hearing in Case No. AVU-E-11-09, AVU-G-17-05, also known
as In the Matter of the Joint Application of Hydro One
Limited and Avista Corporation for Approval of Merger
Agreement.
f'm Paul Kjellander. I'11- be the chairman
of tonight's proceedings. I'm one of the three
commi-ssioners. Also with me this evening is
Commissioner Eric Anderson. We comprise two of the
three commissioners that wiII ultimately make a final-
determination on this case once it's fu1Iy submitted.
The sol-e purpose of tonight's hearlng is to
take testimony and comments from the public regarding
this case. This is an opportunity for members of the
pub11c to get their statements entered into the record
that will ultimately assist this commission in its
deliberation process. As further background, the
commission serves in a simil-ar capacity as the distrlct
court, and we generally fol-l-ow district court rules.
We're here this eveni-ng to help create a fully developed
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record. We're not here today to pass judgment on
comments or statements made for the official record.
The commissioners serve as judges and accordingly do not
answer questions rel-ated to the case other than
questions regarding procedure. The commission wil-l- not
begin to deliberate on the merits of this case until the
official record is cl-osed. Additionally, the
commission, like judges, only speaks through its orders
as it relates to the final- ruling on this matter. So
let me reiterate that we serve as ;udges, and like
judges, do not comment on the merits of the case while
the docket is still open.
Procedurally this evening, ds we progress,
we'l-l call your name f rom the sign-up sheet. You' l-l
then take the stand, which is located right there, and I
believe the microphone j-s oD, so I don't believe you
have to touch any buttons at all. And then our Deputy
Attorney General- for the State of Idaho, Carl K1ein,
will swear you 1n. He'l-1 ask you to raise your right
hand and swear or affirm that the testimony you are
about to provide wil-l- be the whol-e truth and nothing but
the truth, and if you promise to tel-l- us the truth, you
can still continue. So please be truthful. Again,
that's what we're after this evenJ-ng.
You'l-l- next be a1Iowed, then, to provide a
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brief statement after CarI asks you a few introductory
questions -- essentially your name, speJ-ling, your
address, and whether or not you're a customer of Avista.
Then we'11 take your comments and testimony. And there
is the potential for cross-examination from some of the
parties in the case, but typically at public hearings we
don't have any cross-examination. If there are any
questions that might be clarifying questions from we,
the commissioners, and it might be something just as
simple ds, you know, Lf you have a service quality
concern or question, we might have a fo1low-up on that.
But the l-ikelihood of fo11ow-up questi-ons this evening
is slim.
As you provide your statement tonight,
please remember that the decorum for this proceeding is
similar to a courtroom. Your comments shoul-d be
directed to the commissioners and not the members of the
audience. For those in the audiencer we ask that you
refrain from reacting to any testimony. No clapping, ho
cheering, Do jeering. And that means please respect the
process, and again, act as if you're in a courtroom so
that we can get the testj-mony on the record as smoothly
as possible.
Since our cases are judicial in nature, we
have a court reporter tonight. ft's Julie McCaughan.
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And we'11 make the officlal transcription of tonight's
hearing. The reason that we have a transcript is that,
again, we act as judges, and this is a quasi-judlcial
proceeding. And in the event that any of these
proceedings end up moving forward through appeal, the
transcript becomes a significant pj-ece of the puzzle as
we l-ook at any appeals that may go to the State Supreme
Court.
At this point, f'd like to take the
appearances of the parties, and I believe we have a
representative of Avista.
DAVID MEYER: Yes. Thank you. Appearing on
behalf of Avista, David Meyer. And wel-come to al-l- of
you.
MR. KJELLANDER: Thank you. Is there a
representative from Hydro One?
DANIBL LEVITAN: Yes. Daniel Levitan, Hydro
One.
MR. KJBLLANDER: DanieI.
Do we have for commi-ssion staff, w€ have
the Deputy Attorney General-, Carl, if you'd like to
j-ntroduce yourself .
CARL KLEIN: Carl Klein, Deputy Attorney
General for the commission staff.
MR. KJELLANDER: Thank you, Carl-.
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Anyone representing the Idaho Forest Group?
Cl-earwater Paper Corporation? Community Action
Partnership Association of ldaho? Idaho Conservation
League? Washington and Northern Idaho District Council
Laborers ?
Are there any parties that Irve missed? If
not, then we're ready to cal-l, then, our first public
witness. And one thing that I would like to at least
share with you this evening is there may be some people
who have attended some of the two previous public
hearings that we've had. And if you are on the l-ist
tonight and you have testified before, please only
provide new information, because the other information
is already on the record. So with that, why don't we
begin with Larry Spencer.
MR. KLEIN: Larry, you're already sworn in.
I think that still- continues. You're stil-I under oath.
If you could spelJ- your name for the record for the
court reporter.
LARRY SPENCER: Larry, L-a-r-r-y, Spencer
S-p-e-n-c-e-r.
MR. KLEIN: Go ahead.
MR. SPENCER: So Idaho Code 6L-328 is titled
"Efectric Utility Sale of Property to be Approved by the
Commission." There are three criteri-a and I'd like to
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talk about two of them today. The first is, A, that the
transaction is consistent with the public interest,
which is, as I mentioned before, a bit nebulous. And C,
that the applicant for such acquisition or transfer has
the bona fide intent and the financial ability to
operate and maj-ntain said property in the public
service. Now, there have been, that I know of, at feast
a couple of these types of sales of Idaho util-ities to
corporations not based in Idaho, and I feel- that this
one is very, very different than those for the following
reasons. ft's subject to, not just capitalism, but also
politics. And with the case of Hydro One, the politics
gets to be quite an interesting mix in their history and
present-day situation.
The incoming Premier, who wil-l take his seat
on the 29Lh of this month and won in a landslide
el-ection was quoted on the June 8, 2078 The Globe Mai1,
out of Toronto Ontarlo, ds saying, about the chairman of
Hydro One, quote, "You can take this to the bank. The
CEO is gone and the board is gone. " Now, he won with a
landslide. My understanding is that the former
political party now has either seven percent or seven
seats, and his ruling party has either '75 seats or 75
percent. Irm not sure which one of those it was, but I
read it today, so that's something to check. So it was
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a very much landslide el-ection, and a lot of it was
based on Hydro One and the anger of Hydro One.
The Star wrote an article on June 72, 2078,
titled it Doug Ford is the name of the incoming
Premier titl-ed it "Eord's Anger at CEO Pay Sparks
Talk of Selling Off Hydro One." Now, Hydro One, again,
is owned 41 percent at this current time by the
government which he just took the seat of. There's a
big picture of in here people holding up placards
behind him saying, "Hydro should be for the people, "
"Kick out the" something, et cetera, €t cetera.
And this seems a littl-e disconcerting
because again, the law requires that this be some
that the purchaser be somebody with the intent and the
ability to continue. And what I'm going to show today
is it's subject to the whims of the voters in Canada
which have backlashed one way and then gone the other
way like a pendulum as far as what they're doing with
Hydro One. Hydro One is a fairly new company as far as
having an IPO 1n 2015. So the fact that we're looking
at firing the entire board seems, you know, a bit
extreme, but it's happened before. In 2002, "The
maniac" I'm quoting from The Star's article here
"The maniac attempts at a 5.5 billion dolIar
privatj-zation by the long ago Conservatives, the outcry
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over executive compensation, the introduction of
legislatlon authorizing the minister of energy to fire
the board, appoint their replacements, and set
restrictions on compensation, the en masse resignation
of said board. June 2002 was a wild tj-me for Hydro.
Chairman Clitheroe was fired Iike a cj-rcus performer
shot out of a cannon. "
So tumultuous dealings in Hydro One are not
new, and f 'm concerned at the ldea that they wil-l be
picking board members f or Avista. And I ' l-l- get to that
again in a minute. Eurther on in the article, it says,
"A betting person might conclude that Premier-Designate
Ford will- start his examination at Hydro here, dt ground
zero. No doubt his economic advisors are going to get
an earful- on the merits of seJ-J-ing out altogether.
Ben" I'11 get his name wrong "Dachis, associate
dlrector of research at the C.D. Howe Institute'r --
which is a think tank up there "has been making the
case for a safe. " Quote, "Best to cash out now, " end
quote, he said. "Thj-nk of investing your money,
taxpayers dollars, your indivldual retirement in a
business that might end up being like owning ol-d school-
telephone stocks in the early 1900s. Is that something
you rea11y want? We as taxpayers are invested in this
ol-d school- business. This might not be the best thing
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10, 15 years from now.r' He goes on to tal-k in this
articl-e about the value of the money, how much money
they would get from it, they would get seven bill-ion
from the sale of thelr 47 percent of the stock. That's
21 years worth of cash fl-ow, et cetera. A lot of the
rest of this talks about that, and the reason I bring
this up is because this is the national- conversation up
there should they sel-l-? Now, The Star is not
something written in a blogosphere or some weekJ-y hack
newspaper. The Star has been a newspaper in Toronto
slnce 7892. This is the genuine conversation they're
having.
Another article that came out May 1 from
the bear with me Canadian Press, has Ontario PC
leader Doug Ford telling Hydro Onefs board to quit
immediately, to resign. The article concludes by
saying, "Makj-ng Hydro One a semi-private corporation
turned it into a pitiable monstrosity. What it does is
naturally a public service j-n the first p1ace, and
seIli-ng just over half of it produced some quick cash at
the cost of Iong-term profits. Meanwhile, whatever
private-sector discipline it got is being wiped out by
the punishment it's taking for daring to act like the
private company the Liberals told it to be." So thls
isnrt a for-profit corporation l-ike the mergers we've
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seen in the past in Idaho or other places where their
sol-e business is energy. Whether it's in one country or
another, they're delivering, providing, producing
energy. This is a company that is hal-f-owned by a
government that the voters are really upset with and
have been upset with for the last 15, 20 years.
This might be a slight exaggeration of a
scenario, but j-f you owned a smal-l dot-com company, and
you had decided to sell out to a larger dot-com company,
and as you're going through the process and discusslng
the stock optlons you'11 be getting and the stock in the
combined company you'11 be getting, you get cl-ose to the
point where you're going to be signing the paper, that's
going to be happenlng tomorrow, and one of your friends
mentions that he was downtown earlier in the day and he
saw the leaders of the other company walking out of a
bankruptcy law firm. And you sit up and take notice and
sdy, "We11, do you know anything else?" And he said,
"We11, I couldn't hear much of the conversation, but
something about they said, 'ft'l-l all be okay after
tomorrow. What do you think they meant by that?r" My
guess is you'd run. And I think that this is not that
far off of what we'd be getting into. We literally
might be getting into a deal whlch wasn't visibl-e a year
d9o, but at this point the evidence is clearly pointing
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to Hydro One may be being sold off to an unknown party
as we're signing the deal on this. That doesn't seem to
strike me as getting involved with a company or an
application that has bona fi-de intent and financial-
ability to operate and maintain said property for the
public service.
I'm not for sel11ng Avista to anyone. I
think we've got a really good thing here. We've got
some of the best energy prices anywhere. I think that
we've got a 1ot of losses we could l-ook at and rea11y no
gains, other than to stockholders around the world that
happen to hold Avista stock. But if we're going to sell
it, selJ-ing it to somebody who's looking at us for
stability just seems like lunacy. And with that, I I II
stand f or any quest j-ons.
MR. KJELLANDER: Thank you. CaII John
MlIler.
MR. KLEIN: Please raise your right hand.
Do you swear or affirm that the testimony you are about
to give is the truth, the who1e truth, and nothlng but
the truth?
JOHN MILLER: I do.
MR. KLEIN: Pl-ease state your name and spe11
your last name.
MR. MILLER: John Mil-l-er, M-i-l-l-e-r .t Page t2
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MR. KLEIN: What's your address?
MR. MILLERz 2124 South Harold Road, in
Spokane Va11ey, Washi-ngton.
MR. KLEIN: Are you an Avi,sta customer?
MR. MILLER: Yes.
MR. KLEIN: Pl-ease go ahead.
MR. MILLER: Thank you. I'm very much
against this merger of Avista Utllities and Hydro One
for the followi-ng reasons.
Avista is a private corporation built in the
best tradition of our capitalistic economic system.
Hydro One is a quasi-government corporation in a
socialist country.
49 percent of Hydro One is owned by the
Ontario government. Given the Ontario government wil-l-
vote al-l- of its shares in the same wdy, it is too easy
for the Ontario government to convince another one
percent plus one to vote the same. Shoul-d that happen,
our util-ities would be governed by a foreign government
in a foreign country.
Sometj-me prior to 1986, Washington Water
Power sol-d off its water distribution assets to a
prlvate company in Philade1phia. Within months, our
cost of water skyrocketed l-ike an Atlas mi-ssil-e until
such ti-me that we f ormed a water district No. 3 and
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purchased those assets back at an exorbitant price.
Since then, the hiqh price of our water has stabilLzed,
but at a much higher rate than the surroundi-ng
utllities. We woul-d not l-ike to see the same thing
happen with Avista power costs.
Power rates at Hydro One are some of the
highest rates in Canada, while power rates at Avista are
some of the lowest in the U.S. After the merger, if
Hydro One rates go down, our rates might have to rise,
much to the disappointment of Washington rate payers.
The socialist government is bent on saving
the worl-d through the adoption of a green philosophy
which wil-l- necessarily be foisted on the rate payers in
Washington to promote an agenda of a foreign nation, a
foreign socialist nation.
Hydro installed smart meters at a cost of
over two billion dollars, then had to admit its errors
and sent about a mil-l-ion l-etters of apology to the
customers in Canada. The introduction of smart meters
in Ontario mandated by the llberal- government created
peak and off-peak rates that were to spark a
conservation drive across the province. The plan
failed. Ontario rate payers are not happy, and they are
devising ways to defeat the system.
I believe that Avista is a solid American
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company, buift with the best interests of
Washingtonians and I might add Idaho and Montana
in mind, in the confines of the United States. Avista
is a great company that should not be sold to anyone,
l-et al-one a quasi--socialist government corporation.
Thank you. Any questions?
MR. KJELLANDER: Thank you for your
testimony.
testimony you are about to give is
truth, and nothing but the truth?
Brent Regan?
MR. KLEIN: Do
. REGAN:
about 90
you swear or
the
affirm the
truth, the whol-e
o BRENT REGAN: I do.
MR. KLEIN: Please state your name and spe11
your last name.
MR. REGAN: Brent Regan, R-e-g-a-n, 6100
East Borley Road in Coeur drAl-ene. f am an Avista
customer and I'm also an Avista power provider.
MR. KLEIN: Go ahead.
MR I have a 55 kil-owatt
megawatt hours a year
solar array
into thethat provides
system.
Thank you, commissioners, ton j-ght, f or
allowing us this opportunity. And I fully appreciate
your efforts to help protect the public interest. f'm
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not a lawyer, but I can read the law. And the quoted
67-328 section (3) (b) says that the PUC shal-I find that
the cost and rates for supplying service will not be
increased by reason of such transactj-on.
There has been some discussion about Avista
and Hydro One rates. Hydro One rates currently run
between 26 cents a kilowatt hour, 36 cents a kilowatt
hour, and my rate right now 1s about eight cents a
kilowatt hour. Now, I real-ize that in past mergers, the
argument has been made that you get an economy of scal-e
when you bring two systems together, that there are
redundancies that can be eliminated and so the overall
cost is lower, the average cost is lower, than it woul-d
be indlvidually. And that might wel-l- be the case here,
but the problem is that we don't have two equal
components. We have an Avista component and a Hydro One
component. An Avista component at eight cents a
kilowatt hour and a Hydro One component at 26 cents a
kil-owatt hour and you merge those two together, and our
rate invariably would have to increase, tf those costs
were shared down into our system.
MR. KLEIN: Pardon me. Can I interrupt you
just a minute? The court reporterrs trylng to type down
everythlng you sdy, so if you coul-d sl-ow down just a
littl-e bit.
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under a
much.
MR. REGAN: I'm used to giving testimony
c1ock, so al-I right. I wil-l-. Thank you very
So the question comes down to: What wil-l
necessarily happen to our rates? And I would think that
the commissioners would need to figure that out
definitively, that this isn't the same as a rate change
where you wait for the application to come and then we
go and figure out what the rates and the reasons are.
This is: fs thls a reasonable thing to expect in the
ful-lness of time and there's no time l-imit on this.
You can sdy, "Wel-l, two years, they promised they're not
going to raise the rates. " It doesn't say that there's
a time limits. It says that it won't rise as a resul-t
of this transaction. And so will that rise happen in
two years or three years or five years as a resul-t of
the transaction because of the higher costs associated
with Hydro One? I don't know. And that's a question
that needs to be answered, because the commission is
directed under law that you shal-l- determine that.
So as a producer, f 'm al-so worried that the
sofar power that I produce and pump into the grid, which
is being absorbed into the grid and my meter actlvely
runs backwards as a resul-t how that's going to be
affected. Is there any consideration in your
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discussions and thinking about this matter of the
producers, smafl producers like myself, who spent many
tens of thousands of do1lars to put in a sofar array and
now f have a 3O-year plan for recovering those costs,
and that 3O-year plan does not include having my rates
go up but the cost that f can sell to Avista go down.
So hopefully that would be addressed.
Fina11y, I have the issue under the prior
section of the ]aw, which is 67-321. And in there, it
tal-ks about how these transactions are forbidden in all
kinds of different cases between al-l kinds of different
entities. There's 22 lines of basically, "You can't do
this, you can't do this, you can't do this, you can't do
this. " And it tal-ks about property 1ocated in this
state of Idaho, small "s" state. But then down towards
the bottom, it says, "Provided nothing herein shall-
prohibit the transfer of any such property by a public
utility through a cooperative e1ectrical corporation
organized under the laws of another state." So the PUC
has the power to grant a transfer to another entity
thatrs organized under the law of another state, small
"s". So the question is: Is Hydro One organized under
the laws of another state, Iike Idaho or Montana? And
clearly the answer is no. So the question that that
rises is: Does the PUC even have the legal power to
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grant that transaction?
Thank you very much.
MR. KJELLANDER: Thank you for your
testimony this evening.
Summer Bushnel.
MR. KLEIN: Do you swear or affirm that the
testimony you are about to give is the truth, the whole
truth, and nothing but the truth?
SUMMER BUSHNEL: Yes.
MR. KLEIN: Pl-ease state your name and spel1
your l-ast name.
MR. BUSHNEL: Summer, and then Bushnel,
B-u-s-h-n-e-1.
MR. KLEfN: What's your address?
MS. BUSHNEL: 5006 East Portside Court, Post
Ealls.
MR. KLEIN: Are you an Avista customer?
MS. BUSHNEL: Yes.
MR. KLEIN: Please go ahead.
MS. BUSHNEL: I have a simil-ar concern to
Brent, to follow up on his stuff. The way I read all
the 1egal jargon is it looks like Hydro One can go for
two or three years and they promised they won't do a
rate increase, and then they can jack up the rates if
I'm reading all the legaI jargon. That's how I read it.
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And that concerns me, because when you look at the past
history of Avista merging with the Spokane I think
it's Water and Power if I'm remembering right, and they
jack up rates. Hydro One absorbs other companies, they
jack up rates. And I just think if there woul-d be more
1ega1 clarification on that, that woul-d be great.
My other concern is and maybe IegaIIy
it's not seen that wdy, but as a regular citizen, I see
Avista as an American infrastructure, and it rea11y,
really concerns me that we have a foreign government
that may end up having a 4O-percent share in American
infrastructure. And that real1y concerns me. I haven't
read anythlng in your guys' documentation or on research
on my own to see anything otherwise. Because then I
think, wel-l- , if someone had a l-awsuit against them, do
we have to go to Canada to sue? And I may not be very
1egaIly wise in that, but as a normal- citizen, I don't
think it's a good idea at al-l to have American
infrastructure owned by a foreign government. Thanks.
MR. KJELLANDER: Thank you for your
comments.
Representative Ron Mendive.
MR. KLEIN: Do you swear or affj-rm that the
testimony you are about to give is the truth, the whole
truth, and nothing but the truth?
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RON MENDIVE: I do.
MR. KLEIN: Would you please state your name
and spe11 your l-ast name?
MR. MENDIVE: Ron Mendive, M-e-n-d-i-v-e.
MR. KLEIN: What's your address?
MR. MENDIVE: 3732 South Dusty Lane, Coeur
d'Alene.
MR. KLEIN: And are you an Avista customer?
MR. MENDIVE: I am not, but I represent
Avista customers.
MR. KLEIN: Pl-ease go ahead.
MR. MENDIVE: Basically, a lot of the things
I was thinklng about already are being mentioned, but I
woul-d l-ike to get into Idaho Code Section 6l-327 just a
littl-e bit. About the legislati-ve intent. Now, this
was done in 1951, and 1t seems apparent to me that the
legislature at that time was very concerned about
critical infrastructure even then. That was pre-9/77,
before we had all the terrorism we have now. But
infrastructure is a real1y big deal, and el-ectrical
infrastructure, we don't survive without it, frankly, in
this country anymore.
So I believe that they listed so many things
that they were concerned about as far as allowing other
municipalities that they didn't want the government
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to own the util-ities. That was quite clear in that.
And I'm sure you guys have read it. So they took it
very serj-ous1y. I think if they had dreamed in 1951
that we might be considering at this date, some 60 some
years l-ater, that we might be selling an electric
company in Idaho to a foreign country or other things
l-ike that, I think they would have been stunned. I
don't think they even foresaw this happening. Had they,
I'm pretty sure they would have mentioned it.
There's rea11y no way to know exactly who
the owners of that company could be. It coul-d be China
could buy into this company. Russia could buy into this
company. We've al-l- heard about Uranium One.
Interesting it woul-d be a similarly named company, but
Uranium One was a Russian company that through
Canada that actually purchased 20 percent of United
States uranium.
It's interesting that we're having this
discussion about electric power, because as I sit on the
Energy, Environment & Technology Committee, one of the
promising things we see for possible power generation in
the future is nuclear small- portable nucl-ear
reactors. Itrs very promising. The future of wind and
solar is in doubt. If it weren't for government
subsidies, it wou1dnrt even be happening to this day.
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But nuclear has some real- potential. And yet, through a
Canadian company, Russia acquired 20 percent of our
uranium. That's deeply disturbing to me and I think --
and uranium, there again, a critical- element, and here
we are with critical infrastructure. I think we need to
be very cautious in this.
We've seen the company has been run to
the ground. Hydro One, you hear a number 60,000 people
have had their electricity turned off. That's a rea11y
big dea1. And basicall-y they can't afford j-t. And
those rates coul-d be in our future if this happens, and
I just rea11y question whether it would be wise to even
l-ook into this, to consider selling this to a foreign
government or whoever, as a company that we can't even
identify. And there again, back to legislative intent,
6l-321, those guys wanted to keep the control of our
el-ectrical grid and power structure in the state of
Idaho. They were very, very cognizanL of that.
I've been told that they're not going to
make changes to Avista. I cannot comprehend anyone in
thj-s room buying a company and not managing the company,
not running the company. I just have real- difficulty
believing that that could even happen, that you pay 6
billion dollars for a company and just let the other
people run it. There will be changes. Itrs inevitable
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that there will- be changes. They've made such a mess of
the power situation in Ontario to date that we should
look at that and think: Do we want these people having
any say or even the possibility of any say in our
el-ectric production here in the state of Idaho?
So essentially, I just wanted to weigh j-n
that I think this is a rea1Iy bad idea. I think it's
well down the road to passage, and I think if anybody
can stop this, it might have to be the Idaho Public
Utilities Commission. So anyway, I've been in your seat
at times, and good l-uck. Any questions?
MR. KJELLANDER: Thank you for your comments
today.
We'11 call Tim Kastning.
MR. KLEIN: Do you swear or affirm that the
testimony you are about to give is the truth, the whole
truth, and nothing but the truth?
TIM KASTNING: Yes, sir.
MR. KLEIN: Please state your name and spe11
your l-ast name.
MR. KASTNING: My name is Tim Kastning,
spelled K-a-s-t-n-i-n-9.
MR. KLEIN: What's your address?
MR. KASTNING: 10035 North Happy Trai1,
Rathdrum, ldaho.
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MR. KLEIN: Are you an Avista customer?
MR. KASTNING: Yes, I am.
MR. KLEIN: Please go ahead.
MR. KASTNING: Thank you. Thank you,
Commissioners, for coming to Coeur d'Alene and hearing
our testimony, and I pray that you'II take these words
to heart and do the right thing for the state of Idaho.
As you can see that there is a tremendous amount of
opposition to this merger. Tremendous amount of
opposition. And I think that you folks know a l-ot more
about it than what we do, and again, you're put into a
place of position and power of decision making that is
very critical to the future of this state. From what I
understand, AIaska and Montana have already agreed to
this. Oregon's not taking testimony. So I think that
you are going to play a critical part in this. And if
you l-isten to the constituents, the people of the state
of Idaho, this is not a good situation, and I hope that
you'11 do the right thing.
I stand opposed to this merger. We are
aware of the terrible service and reputati-on of Hydro
One. That is all over the Internet. Everywhere.
Terrible service. Hydro One's rates, from what I
understand, are about four times the rate of Avista.
And with them operating at approximately four times the
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rate, I cannot see that once Hydro One 1f you should
make the decision to al-low this merger to take place
that our rates are going to remain the same. There's
going to be some lnfl-uence on our rates at some point.
It may not be within the first five years, ds they say
that they -- we've got a rate l-ock and from what I
understand there's some 30 million dol-l-ars spread out
over five years that will be applied to Idaho Avista
customers. I did the math on that, and dividing out
that money, five mil-lion dol-l-ars a year over the
customers, 1t ends up a few dollars a year or a month
towards the customers of Avista.
We are aware that if the IPUC signs thls
agreement, a major utility and resource infrastructure,
including the management of our waterways, potentially,
and dams wiII ultimately be put into the hands of a
foreign nation. That concerns me as it has already been
expressed. Also, word on the street states and I say
"word on the street" because I have not seen the
documentation myself but word on the street says that
upwards of 50 million dollars wil-l- be pald out to the
top executives of Avista should this merger go through
with the CEO if his name's Scott Baker -- with about
10 million do]lars going to him.
I've read through Irve got a few
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documents here, and one of them is Exhibit A. There's
25 pages here, f3 points to it. And reading through
that, I had some questions.
Who are the subsidiaries of Avista? Page 5.
What are seed stage investments? Page 5. I
would just like to have this for the recording.
Who is Olympus Holding Corp. or Olympus
Equity LLC, and what is their place in the corporate
structure? I believe that Olympus Holding Corporati-on,
Olympus Equity, is also owned by Hydro One.
What 1s the estimated cost of this merger
and who will pay for it? Page 1.
Rate credit of 15.8 million or five percent
of an annual revenue wil-l- go to Idaho' s customers spread
out over five years. There it is. 3.2 million dol-Iars
per year. That amounts to a few dol-lars per customer
per year.
What does it mean for the rate credit to be
offset-abIe, page B?
What does rate-making treatment mean? Page
11.
What does the phrase "rain sensing
provisions" mean, page 15.
Can Hydro One sel-l- Avista to another entity,
such as Russia? Page 76 and 11.
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Please explain Avista's commitment or
opportunlty to sel1 renewable energy credits and how
coul-d that affect base rates. Page 18.
How was it that Cl-earwater Paper and Idaho
Forest Group was able to get DSM funding under tariff
schedule 90? Page 20.
What wil-l- Avista's seven mil-l-ion doll-ar
contribution to Avista's charitabl-e foundation be used
for? Page 27.
Those are just a few of the questions that I
had reading through Exhibit A that outlined the
agreements between Avista and Hydro One.
MR. KLEIN: Pardon me. Can I interrupt just
to clarify? When you're speaking of Exhibit A, you're
speaking of Exhibit A to the settlement stipulation. Is
that correct?
MR. KASTNING: That is I be.l-ieve that is
correct. The Master List of Commitments in Idaho.
MR. KLEIN: Thank you.
MR. KASTNING: Thank you. This other
document that I have is "Before the Idaho Publ-ic
Utilities Commj-ssj-on Stipulatj-ons and Settlement in the
Matter of the Joint Application of Hydro One Limited and
Avista Corporation for Approval- of the Merger, " and I'd
like to read just a few things from this for the record.
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fn the first paragraph on page I, it says,
"This settfement stipulation agreement hereafter
stipulation is entered into by and among the following
parties, in this case Hydro One Limited acting through
its indirect who11y owned subsidiary Olympus Equlty LLC,
and Avista Corporation sometj-mes hereafter jointly
referred to as 'joint applicants' or as 'the companies,'
the staff of the Idaho Public Utilities Commission,
Clearwater Paper Corporation, Idaho Forest Group, Idaho
Conservation League, the Community Action Partnership
Association of Idaho, and the Washington and Northern
Idaho District Counci-I of Laborers. These entities are
coll-ectively referred to as 'the parties' and represent
all- of the parties 1n the above-referred cases. The
settlingr' -- okay. Then on page 2 -- so and you
named off these parties here, and f don't believe that
there was any representatives from these parties other
than Hydro One and Avista and the staff of the Idaho
Publ-ic Utilities Commission.
In the introduction on page 2, it states,
"The terms and conditions of this stipulation are set
forth herein. The parties agree that this stipulation
represents a fair and just and reasonable compromise of
all the issues raised in the proceedings and is in the
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represents a reasonable resolution of the mul-tiple
j-ssues identified in thls case. The parties" the
people that we read "therefore recommend that the
commission, in accordance wlth RP-21 4, approve the
stipulation and all of its ltems and conditions without
materia1 change or condition." So these parties, two of
them here, North Idaho IFG, Idaho Forest Group, and
Cl-earwater Paper and there's some things in Exhibit A
that refers to what they wil-l- be getting in return as
being part of one of these parties.
In page 3, item 5 says, "The parties agree
that Exhibit A" -- what I referred to "contains a
complete list of commitments that joint applicants
collectively and individually agree to make in
exchangerr -- the parties are making an exchange for the
support of the parties in this proceeding herein
referred to as commitments. So Hydro One and Avista,
these parties were brought to the table, IFG, Clearwater
Paper, Idaho Conservation League, some others. And
agreements were made to these companies for their
support, in exchange for their support. "The joint
appllcants agree, ds set forth in Commitment No. 14 of
Exhibit A hereto, that the commission shall have an
opportuni-ty and the authorlty to consider and adopt in
Idaho any commitments or conditions adopted elsewhere to
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whlch the joint applicants agree even if such
commitments and conditions are agreed to after the
commission enters its order in this docket.
When we go back to Exhibit A, in j-tem No.
59, Clearwater Paper wiII receive DSM assistance, and
they're -- what they are receiving to agree with this
"Avista agrees to work with Cl,earwater Paper to attempt
to qualify the fol-l-owing projects for DSM funding under
tariff schedule 90 upon closing of the proposed
transaction. Variabl-e speed drives on the No. 1 paper
machine hydro puIper." I bel-ieve that is probably being
replaced. "Variabl-e speed drives on No. 4 power boiler.
Energy efficient chil-Iers and compressors. A variable
speed drlve on the No. 1 paper machine. Variable speed
drives on two wastewater outfal-l pumps. " As for-profit
companies, corporations, you would think that these
costs, rather than being a buy-out by Avista for their
agreement in this merger, would be paid for by their
profits rather than -- because ul-timately things like
this, expenses Iike thls, affect rate payers.
"The total estimated cost of the projects is
$750,000. Tarif f schedule 90 al-l-owed for possibl-e DSM
funding of up to 10 percent of the cost of the project
subject to meeting certain specified cost effective
criteria." Then it says, "A portion of the estimated
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cost of these identified projects that is not reimbursed
under schedul-e 90 wilI be considered for funding through
commitment 58." We go back to commitment 58, "Funding
for energy efflciency, weatherization, conservation and
l-ow-income assistance program. " So that money,
$5,308,847 over a 1O-year period, will- go to pay for
upgrades for Clearwater Paper as I read here.
Idaho Forest Group, "Avista agrees to work
with ldaho Eorest Group, IFG, to attempt to qualify the
fol-lowing projects for DSM funding under tariff schedule
90 upon closing of the proposed transaction.
Instal-lation of information technol-ogy to gather plant
information data on energy usage at IFG's Lewiston plant
and through an installed i-nterface, " so on. Estimated
cost $300r000. Replacement of aging compressors, saws
and other equipment with state-of-the-art machinery at
IFGrs Lewj-ston and Grangeville plants in order to
increase productivity" which I think that would
increase profits "and energy efficiency. " And then
again, if tarlff schedule 90 does not pay for all of
these, then they can revert back to the five mil-lion
doll-ars that should be going towards l-ow-income
weatherizationr So oo, to cover the rest of that cost.
Idaho Conservation League was al-so one of
the partj-es involved in this, and taken off their
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website, Idaho Conservation League is an environmental
group that opposes coal- power plants, carbon-based
energy sources. It says here, "Idaho Conservation
League played a major rol-e in the negotiations that
shaped this framework to preserve the most important
facts, increasing funding for conservation measures,
placing Colstrip on a pathway to early retirement.
Avista owns a portion of the Colstrip plant in Montana,
one of the biggest coal pJ-ants in the west. As recently
as this March, Avista maintained that it wou1d operate
this plant through at least 2037. And as utilities do,
establ-ish rates allowing the company to recoup j-ts
investment 1n the plant within the same timel-ine. The
major hurdle to accelerating cl-osure of Colstrlp was
figuring out how to pay off the outstanding cost over a
shorter period of time. In technical terms, the utility
would accelerate depreclation of the Colstrip asset.
NormalJ-y this accelerated schedule would require a rate
increase. As part of this merger, ICL secured a
commj-tment by Avista to plan for a 2021 cl-osure, 10
years earl-ier than what Avista had originally planned to
close the p1ant. Washington regulators came up with a
novel plan to use the Trump tax cut to pay this faster
cl-osure of Colstrip, because of the federal tax cut,
utilities are collecting more in ratesrr -- "because of
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the federal tax cut, utllities are col-lecting more in
rates than they need for taxes. Instead of returning
the excess to rate payers, immediately ICL shaped this
proposal to work for Idaho by agreelng to a step-by-step
set of decisions to consider the total amount of tax
money availabl-e in the amount that could be fairly
applied to the Colstrip p1ant. We are working through
these details this summer. "
So these parties that played a major role in
this agreement, this merger agreement between Avista,
are receiving flnancial benefits, and a particular
environmental group played a major rol-e in shutting down
a power plant 10 years earli-er than what Avista had
originally planned on.
And looking at this, and understanding how
things work, whatever, this just does not seem right.
So again, the way that all this came through, the
testimony that you're hearing, the fact that Hydro One
is not a reputable country or utility, according to
its reputation in Canada. Avista is a great company. I
think that turning this company over to a foreign
entity, especially with the reputation and rates that
Hydro One has, woul-d be a terrible mlstake. I ask that
you vote no on this merger. And I stand for any
questions.
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test imony
testimony
truth, and
MR.
and spe11 your
MR.
W-e-e-d.
MR.
MR.
Alaska 9982L.
MR.
MR. KJELLANDER:
and thank you.
Brian Weed.
MR. KLEIN: Do
you are about to
nothing but the
BRIAN WEED: I
And we appreciate your
you swear or affirm that the
give is the truth, the whole
truth?
do.
your address?
PO Box 277376, Auke Bay,
KLEIN: Would you please state your name
l-ast name?
WEED: My name is Brian Weed, l-ast name
KLEIN:
WEED:
And
It'so
KLEIN:Are you an Avista customer?
I am through a smaller companyMR. WEED:
called AEL6,P Al-aska Electrical Light & Power.
MR. KLEIN: Please go ahead.
MR. WEED: I'm kind of a w1ld card. I came
down here from Al-aska to kind of give my take on this.
Juneau, Alaska has already, I guess, folded. We took a
deal-. I'm going to save 51 cents a month when Hydro One
takes over through tax subsidiaries. 51 cents a month
doesn't seem very much. When they shoot out the big
number, it's somewhere around 17 mil-lion that the rate
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payers of Juneau wiII get back.
I'm here to talk about everybody's
talking about Idaho, Montana and Washington. There's
also Al-aska involved in this. Southeast Alaska. Juneau
gets 1ts power from the Snettisham power plant. Itfs a
power plant worth about 500 million doll-ars that was
built by the federal government and the state
government. At end of the bond being paid off, our
smal-ler company owned by Avista, soon to be owned by
Hydro One, can buy Snettisham power plant for our
understanding of basically a dollar. So the Canadian
government will be getting a half a million dollar
facillty that gives power to several of the mines in
Juneau and Juneau itsel-f .
Al-so lnvolved with our smal-1 company AEL&P,
they own the two largest hard rock gold mines in the
world during the industrial age. Eor about 50 years,
Juneau had control of the two largest hard rock gold
mines. And that is owned through a smal-l-er company that
AEL&P owns called AJP Mining. So when AEL&P and Avlsta
get sol-d to Hydro One, Hydro One wil,l- own the two
largest hard rock gold mj-nes in the worl-d in Juneau
during that time frame, and -- wel-I, a mining company
had come in in the early 90s and checked those gold
mines to see if they were worth anything, and they spent
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100 million dol-1ars in about 1990 to check to see if the
AJ Mine was worth reopening. They determined that there
was 89 million tons of ore at .05 ounces a ton, which
comes to about 4,450,000 ounces of go1d. At today's
gold prices, dt about 1300 an ounce, that comes to
$5,785,000,000. Now, Hydro One wouldn't get al-l of this
as Juneau has a mineral contract regarding that mine and
AEL&P. Hydro One would get 40 percent of that almost
six blllion dollars if the mine was ever to reopen.
The other mine, right across the channel- in
Juneau is call-ed the Treadwell- Mine. It was a very
famous mine that basically started the Alaska gold rush.
They know have proven they have three mil-lion tons
of ore to deal with there. That is determined of
somewhere around 3.2 million ounces of goJ-d in the
Treadwell Mi-ne. I didn't do my math and cal-culate how
many other bil-l-ion dollars that entail-s, but they the
initial tests on the Treadwell Mine say it's actually
richer than the AJ Mlne. So AJ is worth just shy of six
bi11ion, Treadwel-1 they're pretty sure is worth
somewhere around that same amount. How much wil-l Hydro
One own of the Treadwel-l Mine? 60 percent.
So everybody's tossing out numbersr So many
mi111on dol-Iars here, So many mi111on dol-l-ars there.
We're talking about eight bill-ion doll-ars in U.S. gold
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going to go to the Canadian government. That doesn't
seem right. And in Al-aska wel-l-, in Juneau, we agreed
to a deal-. There were different stipulations that were
made, "Oh, the rates can't go up over this certain
amount of time. Snettisham can't be purchased without
going through our regulatory commission. " Wel-l-, they've
already jumped through one hoop. They're going to jump
through more. They have time, they have the money.
Juneau could barely afford the attorney to fight it.
And in fact, when we said we were going to hire the
attorney, we were tol-d all deals were off the tabl-e
because we were hiring an attorney.
We afso have a problem if this mine were to
open 1n Juneau. The mine is our water source currently.
City water is being stored in mine tunnel-s. We don't
have a problem with the arsenic, cyanide and mercury
that some other mines have. So Juneau stores a bunch of
its water in the mine. So if the mines were to be
reopened, we would have problems with our city water
source.
I can on1y, you know, speculate oL, you
know, guess, I guess, that one of the reasons that Hydro
One wants to buy Avista is for al-l- these other smafler
deals that are going oD, much like several of the other
gentlemen have already listed. There are other deals
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going on that people arenft aware of. With, you know,
potentially billions of dollars in gold, silver and l-ead
just in Juneau, Alaska, all these other numbers are just
a drop in the bucket.
As far as everything else I wanted to talk
aboutr ds far as well, ds far as Juneau 1and, Hydro
One wil-1 get '7,000 acres of Juneau. We don't have a lot
of land anyway. We're between the water and the
mountains. So there's very l-ittl-e buildable l-and. My
understanding is much of that is commercial- area that
woul-d turn tourist so it would probably be sol-d to the
highest bidder for more tourism.
I guess thatrs it that I had to say.
Several of the gentlemen definitely hit the same points
I was going to make about the Premier looking to fire
the Hydro One executives and the board. I think it's a
risk we shouldn't be taklng, especially with our other
natural resources. Juneau gets its power through
hydroelectric, just the Snettisham power plant provides
78 percent power for Juneau, just that one plant al-one.
So I think itrs a bad deal. Ifm here because my father
l-ives in Coeur d'Al-ene and I donft want to see hls rates
go up when he's retired, flxed income. Juneau didnft
say no to this, and I encourage you guys to say no.
MR. KJELLANDER: Thank you for your
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comments.
Michael- More.
MR. KLEIN: Do you swear or affirm that the
testimony you are about to give is the truth, the whol-e
truth, and nothing but the truth?
MICHAEL MORE: I do, so help me God.
MR. KLEIN: Please state your name and spe1l
your last name for the record.
MR. MORE: My name is Michael More, More is
M-o-r-e, one O. My address is 6562 West Harbor Drive,
Coeur d'Al-ene, fdaho, and I am a Avista customer.
MR. KLEIN: Please go ahead.
MR. MORE: f'd fike to commend my fellow
citizens for the comments this evenj-ng. f have to
confess I'm not as deeply engaged in the specifics of
the transactions. I'd like to speak a l-ittl-e bit more
in context of political- philosophy. Having served a
couple of terms in the Montana state legislature, 2009
and 2011. In 2011, 7 had the good fortune to serve as
the vice-chair of local- government. In that committee,
the guiding principle that I used for the basis of
decision making was something thatrs commonly referred
to as the Principal of Subsidiarity, basically stating
that decisions affecting the community should be made at
the lowest level possible. When the community finds
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itsel-f unabl-e to come to terms with those questions that
l-ie in front of 1t, it then defers to a higher
authority. The higher authority assists with these
questions, and then, having done Sor steps out of the
affairs of the l-ocal community.
Now, you're placed in a very de1icate
situation as commissioners for the PubIic Utilities
Commission, and your absentee commissioner, Mrs. Raper,
I be1ieve it is, and I would ask you to give great
consideration to thls hearing, the comments of the
public in regard to this, ds I'm sure you wilJ-, because
I think the broader perspective of what we find
happening cultural-1y throughout Europe and America, as
evidenced in our most recent elections in ltaly and
elsewhere, is this rise of populism. Populism is a
direct result of the desire of every people for
self-determination. The same goes for this audience
here and every audience that you will visit with in
consideration of this acquisition and transfer of the
Avista utility.
So with that in mind, I'd l-ike to point out
that the most fundamental- factor that is at work here is
real-Iy the economic sovereignty of Idahoans in the state
of Idaho with regard to what is perhaps its greatest
asset, its water, and the hydroelectricity that it
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produces. As a resul-t of this, the consequences of the
decision you're going to make are quite profound. And I
woul-d encourage you that you Look at it and with I'm
sure you will give due consideration to all the
comments already made here this evening, and lndeed with
my suggestion that this shoul-d be an adamant no vote
against this acquisition for the very simple but
fundamental- reality that local- assets shoul-d be
controlled at the l-ocal- Ievel. Without that, w€
completely l-ose our way in this modern age. Thank you.
MR. KJELLANDER: And thank you for your
comments.
G]en Bledsoe.
MR. KLEIN: Do you swear or affirm that the
testimony you are about to give is the truth, the whole
truth, and nothing but the truth?
GLEN BLEDSOE: Yes.
MR. KLEIN: Woul-d you please state your name
and spe11 your l-ast name?
MR. BLEDSOE: Gl-en Bledsoe, B-1-e-d-s-o-e.
MR. KLEIN: What's your address?
MR. BLEDSOE: Box 835, Rathdrum, Idaho.
MR. KLEIN: And are you an Avista customer?
MR. BLEDSOE: I am not, but I'm sure I'm
a Kootenai Electric customerr so I would expect rates to
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be affected as they woul-d purchase power from the five
dams that I believe Avista owns in Idaho. And that
being a public interest, basically I'm a common man, so
I don't know a whole l-ot of the details, but your
average Kootenai citizen here works hard and enjoys
being able to turn that switch on and not have to be
able to afford a good living up here in thls great state
of Idaho.
And so Hydro One being a partialJ-y
foreign-owned company, you have foreign interest in our
public utilities, our national- security, the dams.
Foreign ownership means foreign control-, and ultimately
forej-gn tribute that I think we'll lose controf of our
own country, we lose control of our waterways through
the dams. As another gentleman brought up, Uranium One,
great example, foreign j-nterest buying out our country.
So I'm advocating America first, the state of Idaho
first, keep foreign countrj-es and foreign j-nterests out
of our public utilities.
There was mention of this hearlng operating
as like a district court, and I would ask this Idaho
Utility Commission f see there is a U.S. flag here,
and there's an Idaho flag here. Coul-d this hearing
operate as l-ike a district court and all-ow a Canadian
flag to be in this hearing? Is there jurisdiction for a
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Canadian flag to be in this hearing? And I would say it
is not, that there is no jurisdiction for a foreign
government to be in this hearlng, nor should this
commissj-on grant authority to a foreign government to be
involved in this merger.
And with that, I would request that you
would defend our rights as Idahoans and U.S. citizens
and vote no on a merger. Questions?
MR. KJELLANDER: Thank you for your
comments.
Robert White.
MR. KLEIN: Do you swear that the
about to give is the truth, the whol-e
but the truth?
ROBERT WHITE: Yes.
MR. KLEIN: Please state your name
testimony
truth, andoyou are
nothing
and spe11
your l-ast name.
MR. WHITE: It's Robert White, Il{-h-i-t-e.
MR. KLEIN: And your address?
MR. WHITE: PO Box 1053, Atho1, Idaho.
MR. KLEIN: Are you an Avista customer?
MR. WHITE: No, I'm not.
MR. KLEIN: Go ahead.
MR. WHITE: I'm not an Avista customer, but
this sal-e will- af fect us. When f 've read everything on
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how businesses have had to close in Canada because of
the hiqh rates and how many customers -- what f've seen
so far, up to 70,000 customers have had to go off grid
because they coul-d not afford these rates. And I've
kind of looked into this l-ike, "ls this a company I
would want to buy?" And this is considered one of the
worst run companies for power in the northern
hemisphere. And this is something I would say no, I
wou1d not want to buy thls company. I woul-d not want to
invest my money into it. And when we see businesses
that have had to close in Canada, what is this going to
do to us down here? The cost is going to have to affect
us at some point. This company has tremendous debt, and
I havenrt seen any guarantees that this debt is not
eventually going to be passed on to the citizens here in
America, Avista customers and the businesses that buy
energy from Avista.
And everything else that everybody else has
said, I'm in agreement with, too, that a foreign
country a foreign country should not control our
el-ectrical. Now, we just looked at the G-J, and we saw
the tension between the President and the Prime Mlnister
of Canada. It wasn't good. What if those tensions get
worse? And what if Canada deci-des that they realJ-y want
to play hardbal-I with us? What could we do? They're
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going to have an infl-uence with this company, Avista.
Avista is one of the best run companies I've
seen for power in the United States. Hydro One, going
back lookj-ng at it, is one of the worst run companies in
the northern hemlsphere. This doesn't make sense to me.
We've had people that have had to get off grid because
they couldnrt afford el-ectrical. We see tremendous
amount of debt.
I canf t say that windmil-l-s and sofar is
practical, especlally when we l-ive in the north here.
The wind doesn't blow all the time. The cl-ouds can
bLock out the sol-ar. This is something that's not
rea1ly sustainabl-e.
So f'm asking you this is our last
chance. I'm asking you, guys, rea11y consider what
wefre saying, because this will affect us. And I'm
asking you to vote no. Thank you.
MR. KJELLANDER: Thank you for your
comments.
Norma White.
NORMA WHITE: He1lo. Norma White.
MR. KLEIN: Would you please raise your
hand?
MS. WHITE Oh, yes.
Do you swear or affirm that theMR. KLE]N:
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testlmony you are about
truth, and nothing but
MS. WHITE:
MR. KLEIN:
name?
give is the truth, the whol-e
truth?
to
the
Woul-d you please spell your last
MS. WHITE: W-h-i-t-e.
MR. KLEIN: And what's your address?
MS. WHITE: PO Box 1053, Atho1, Idaho,
83801.
MR. KLEIN: And are you an Avista customer?
MS. WHITE: I am not.
MR. KLEIN: Pl-ease go ahead.
MS. WHITE: f'm concerned that Hydro One may
close the coal-fired power plants in Montana. If they
do that, I have read that that provides 33 percent of
the electriclty for Avista. And so I'm concerned that,
even though f am not an Avista customer, that this will
reduce the el-ectrj-c generation in the northwest here,
and I'm sure everyone is aware that this is the fastest
growing population in the country, this county, or North
Idaho. And so we have a lot of people moving in here,
werre going to have a l-ot of more el-ectrical needs. And
we do not need to be reducJ-ng our eLectrical generation
here. So that is a concern.
Because Canada has signed on to the Paris
Yes.
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Climate Accord, and I'm afraid that they wil-l- impose
things on Avista, and through imposing it on Avista,
imposing it on the citizens of the United States whose
government decided not to sign on to that accord because
it woul-d damage our economy and fower the living
standards of Americans. And so I do not want Americans
to become vlctims of this. I don't want us to suffer
for the foolish decisions of the social-ist government of
Canada. Irm al-so concerned that Hydro One will fill
Idaho's landscape with expensive, inefficient,
bird-ki11ing, u91y windmil-l-s in order to comply with the
Paris Climate Accord, as they have done in other parts
of their country.
You know, I lived in California when Gray
Davis signed some very foolish long-term contracts for
above-market rates, and that was very lucrative for the
providers, but not so much for the rate payers, the
citizens of Cal-ifornia. And we aII know what happened
to Gray Davis.
And al-so, ds for Hydro One not dictating
what happens with Avista One, I worked for an aerospace
company for over 23 years. During that time, we were
bought and sold twlce. When that happened, the cufture
of the purchasing company and the dictates of the
purchasing company were imposed on our company. The
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culture changed. Our executives still- had jobs, they
still had stock options, but they were not the ultimate
deciders of what happened at that company. And I think
it is impractical to assume that that would be the case
here, that Avlsta would continue to run as if it were
not owned by somebody else. In the real- worId, that
doesn't happen.
And so I woul-d object to this purchase
happening, thls merger, and I ask you to consj-der this
very carefully, our objections here tonight, and I thank
you for your time.
MR. KJELLANDER: And thank you for your
comments.
Don Cheatham.
MR. KLEIN: Do you swear or affirm that the
testimony you are about to glve is the truth, the whol-e
truth, and nothing but the truth?
DON CHEATHAM: f do, Mr. Attorney General_.
MR. KLEIN: Thank you. Would you please
state your name and spe11 your l-ast name.
MR. CHEATHAM: Don Cheatham,
C-h-e-a-t-h-a-m.
MR. KLEIN: Are you an Avista customer?
MR. CHEATHAM: Yes, sir.
MR. KLEIN: And what's your residence
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addres s ?
MR. CHEATHAM: My residence address is PO
Box 2077, Post Fall-s, Idaho.
MR. KLEIN: Pl_ease go ahead.
MR. CHEATHAM: Thank you, Commissioners.
Ifm also a State Representative for District 3. Thank
you for your time. And lrm here to talk to you a little
bit about vetting, security, physical securi-ty and
resilience of our state.
In 2072, I retired as the Regional Dj-rector
for the Southwestern United States from -- I'11 slow
down National- Protection Programs Directorate, Office
of Critical- Infrastructure Protection. During my tenure
there, I became the regional director of five states on
the west coast, Hawaii, Guam, and Amerj-can Samoa and
Saipan. Our office was divided up into eight regions,
and I had the southwest region. We had teams that would
do go out to critical- infrastructure sectors.
And if T may read off something I made from
the U.S. Department of Homel-and Security. "There are 76
critical infrastructure sectors whose asset systems and
networks, whether physical or virtual-, including cyber,
are considered so vital- to the United States that their
incapacitatj-on or destruction woul-d have a debil-itatlng
effect on national- economj-c security, nati-onaI public
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heal-th, safety or any combination thereof."
Our office, of the 16 sectors of the
economy, we oversaw eight of them, and they included
chemical sector, the commercial facil-ities sector,
communications, critical manufacturing, dams, emergency
services, court facilities, nuclear facilities, waste,
and materials. Our team would go out to a slte
considered to be critical- to national security and
important to the state. We worked through the Homeland
Security Advisor's office and state emergency offices.
And basically we'd look at the threats, the
vul-nerabil-ities and the threats, whether general or
specific, the risk being the l-ikel-ihood of something
happening, the vul-nerabilities being the chinks in their
armor, and come up with resilience, come up with
protective measures.
And the reason Irm here is lrm hoping that
we can vet this thing more. I don't know if you've
tal-ked to people that work on a scale like natj-onal
protection programs directorate, the people that work in
national security issues, like start with the state
homel-and security advisor, but also national- Department
of Homeland Security, other entities like D OE, EEMA.
If there's an incident of national significance, FEMA
would ultimately, if it exceeded the capacity of the
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states, woul-d set up a location. And in my unit, I was
the designated as the infrastructural Iiaison. I wou1d
go to FEMA, and if we had say 25 critical sites I
have to be careful here what I'm saying our unit
wou1d rack and stack which ones we thought needed to
come up first and get reinstated. And we al-so conducted
vulnerability assessments of water systems, state water
systems.
So anyway, f just woul-d ask that you reach
out to those units. I don't have I can make a l1st
of who I think would be valuabl-e, just so you can have
an informed decision in the area of physical security.
And basically that's it. Thank you.
MR. KJELLANDER: And thank you for your
testimony.
Lorna Campbell.
MR. KLEIN: Do you swear or affirm that the
testimony you are about to give 1s the truth, the whole
truth, and nothing but the truth?
LORNA CAMPBELL: I do.
MR. KLEIN: Would you please state your name
and spe11 your last name?
MS. CAMPBELL: Lorna Campbe1l,
C-a-m-p-b-e-l--l- .
MR. KLEIN: What's your address?
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MS. CAMPBELL: 1317 South Wolf Lodge Creek
Road. ft's calIed in Coeur d'Alene, but actually we're
out in the country. We're outside of city l-imits.
MR. KLEIN: Are you an Avista customer?
MS. CAMPBELL: Yes. In fact, I've been an
Avista customer for a number of years. My parents were
a customer of Washington Water Power. So I have had
some involvement in the company over a great number of
years.
MR. KLEIN: Please go ahead.
MS. CAMPBELL: I have deep concerns about a
foreign entj-ty ownj-ng or partially owning a public
utility, because electrical power is a basic uti11ty.
Itrs not something we can do without. We have to have
electrical power.
And f don't l-ike the idea first of aI1,
in a corporation, the board of directors develops the
plans. They decide how the corporation's going to
operate and what they're going to do. In this
particular situation, part of the board of directors
must I donrt know this for sure, but Irm sure that in
the case that the Canadian government has
representatives on their board of directors, as wel-l- as
the power company there. Avista, according to what I
read in the paper, will have two people who are on the
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board of directors. Well, when a board of directors
decides what they're going to do, it's not generally
when everyone agrees. Usually itrs a majority rul-es.
And so here we're looking at a foreign country and a
foreign corporation being abl-e to control- what our
company here does.
And in I've had some contact with
companies that have been bought by foreign countries
that have been commercj-al- companies, and they say when
the company is in the process of buying, that nothing is
going to change, and that they're going to retain aII
the same personnel. Wj-thin 18 months, a lot of the
personnel- is replaced by people from that foreign
country, from that foreign corporation. This concerns
me deeply. I feel- l-ike here in America, we have already
a 1ot of our large companies being owned or partially
owned by foreign countries. We have no control on what
a foreign country or a corporation from a foreign
country does. That's;ust a fact of l-ife.
And so I hope that you take that into
consideration when you determine whether or not this
merger is a practical and a reasonable thing to do. I
feel very strongly it j-s not. I think we as American
citizens, and citizens of the state of Idaho, should
have contro] over our basic utilities. Whether it's
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water, whether it's electrical, I think we ought to have
control, and not have a foreign country telling us what
we can do and what we can't do. And as a board of
directors, that is their option. It doesn't matter what
they say when you're in the process of a company
acquiring another company. It doesn't matter what they
say. It only l-asts for a specific number of years,
whether it's a year, year and a half, five years. And
then at that point, everything can change. So I hope
that you consider that in maklng a decision. Thank you.
MR. KJELLANDER: Thank you for your comments
this evening.
Jeff Ty1er.
JEFF TYLER: Jeff Tyler.
MR. KLEIN: Do you swear or affirm that the
testimony you are about to give is the truth, the whol-e
truth, and nothing but the truth?
MR. TYLER: I do.
MR. KLEIN: Pl-ease state your name and spell
your last name.
MR. TYLER: Jeff Tyler, T-y-1-e-r, 5892
Harbor Drive, Coeur d'A1ene. And I am an Avista
customer.
MR. KLEIN: Pl-ease go ahead.
MR. TYLER: Also, you maybe donrt recognize
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he, but I did testify last night, and thank you for
allowing me to go on for the 10 to 12 minutes that I
did, and so I'm trying to try to keep this short because
I covered quite a bit l-ast night.
Last night I heard a l-ot of testimony. I
think there was one that was for thls merger and all the
rest, about 20 or so, were against the merger, just as
tonight I've heard almost al-1 the testimony is against
the merger. And this PUC, Idaho PUC, that's your job
that you're commissioned to is to watch out for the rate
payers. A11 the testimony goes on and on about how bad
Hydro One is. And as far as watching out for our rates
and our biIls, when our bill-s rlght now are eight cents
compared to Hydro One's bills are they were 38 cents
and they got bought down with about 27 billion dol-lars
just to buy them down to the 20 some cents six cents.
It ' s stil-l- astronomlcal- . There' s, you know, a couple
to foll-ow up on what some others have been saying, I'm
concerned that 58,000 househol-ds have been disconnected
in Ontario due to their inabil-ity to pay their bi1l.
I'm concerned that oh, yeah. There's the mayor
that the mayor of -- Mayor Lynn Watson of Echo Bay,
Ontarlo said, "Seniors can't afford electricity. Rates
are killing small business. "
What I'm seeing with this whol-e thing is it
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seems to be more than just a local merger and
acquisition type thing. We all seem to be happy with
Avista. What I'm seeing is more of a g1oba1 kind of
politlcal philosophy that is trying to j-nterfere into
our country. The whole green energy movement, going to
solar and wind, away from coal, you know, away from
nuclear, and even away from dams. You know, and the
problem is those are pretty much unsustainable, lust the
wind and solar.
So the founder of Hydro One, Maurice Strong,
he was the chairman of the UN's climate summit in Rio de
Janeiro. So that right there tells me that, okay, this
is a company that's not run wel-l-. Why do we want to
have a merger with our good company here that charges a
smal-I amount compared to the large amount that Hydro One
charges? And like was stated earl-ier, how is that going
to keep our rate down when you spread that out? It
might bring their rates down j-n Ontario, but it's going
to raise our rates. I mean, anybody in this room could
see that.
I'm concerned that this whol-e thing is a
climate change plan in the works to fundamentally
transform Amerlca, and like Obama said, power bil-l-s will-
necessarily have to go up. So this, unfortunately, more
than just being a business transaction that you guys
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have to go through this process for, thls is a giant
politj-cal globa1 intrusion into our country.
Irm concerned that this is about capping
trade and carbon credits. Eake science by the same
people behind the fake news. It's an attempt to
monetize carbon, a naturally existing component of the
air which is at much sma1ler parts per million today
than thousands of years ago. I've l-ooked that up on
sclentif ic sites. Pl-ant l-if e thrives on carbon dioxide
which in turn produces oxygen. Itrs just a you know,
kind of , in my view, in a larger vj-ew, i-t's all a rouse
to bring the globalization into our country.
Just found out from others that A]aska and
Montana have just signed onto this, and Oregon and
Washj-ngton, they have yet to, but we know that they are
behind the c1imate change agenda. And just as we know
Governor Inslee in Washington is behind the cl-imate
change agenda. He's even written a book about it. And
he's been influencing, in my opinion, Avj-sta to go in
this direction. It ends up being a good payoff for a
lot of people in Avlsta that are probably tired of
following Insl-ee's guidance and they want to get out and
retire and have a good time.
But your job is to look out for Idaho
citizens, and I've been praying that God will give you
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guys the strength
us and our people
either a hero for
be a hero for the
Thank you.
and the wisdom to do what's right for
of Idaho. So now is your choice to be
climate change and global-ist agenda or
people of Idaho. What wil-l- it be?
MR. KJELLANDER: Thank you for your
comments.
Cheryl Van Esch.
MR. KLEIN: Pl-ease raise your right hand.
Do you swear or affirm that the testimony you are about
to glve is the truth, the whol-e truth, and nothing but
the truth?
CHERYL VAN ESCH: Yes, I do.
MR. KLEIN: Wou1d you please state your name
and spe1I your l-ast name for the record?
MS. VAN ESCH: Cheryl- with a C-h beginning.
The last name, f'm going to have to speI1 it
phonetically. V-a-n space E-s-c-h. Van Esch.
MR. KLEIN: And what's your address?
MS. VAN ESCH: 30371 Sienna Loop, Athol-.
MR. KLEIN: Are you an Avista customer?
MS. VAN ESCH: Yes, I am.
MR. KLEIN: Please go ahead.
MS. VAN ESCH: I wanted to thank you guys
for coming down here and listening to us and thank
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everybody for all the facts and wonderful things that
they covered. It was a great relief to me here that you
guys were able to research all- that and get it together.
I come f rom Cal-if ornia. I was paying three
times in California the water rate two blocks over was
paying. And how that happened is Gol-den State Water
applied every single year to the Publlc Utilities
Commission for a rate increase. They asked for this
much, they were always refused this much, but they were
always granted this much. We ended up paying three
times the amount that people two bl-ocks over were
paying. I'm talking in the winter, when we actually had
rain, $90 a month minimum for average two-,
three-bedroom family home. $90 a month in the
wintertime. fn the summertime, we basically had to turn
off our water and just use it for showers and cleaning
and stuff like that. And we were well- over to try to
keep a couple trees aliver we were welf over $100, $150
a month. It went up to $170 at one time, and then they
said, "No more waterr" because we were in a drought.
And we l-ost trees. People who grew f ruit coul-dn't grow
it anymore because they coul-dn't afford the water.
It is ridiculous for I was reading in the
paper, and it just infuriated me and frightened me, that
someone says the rates wonrt go up if the merger is
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approved. That is the biggest l-ie T think I've heard in
a rea11y long time sj-nce our last campaign we had for
the United States. It absolutely will go up. And when
they say infrastructure, we need money to fix this
infrastructure to brlng it up to date, to do this, to do
that, they're going to ask for this much. And to be
fair, you're not going to grant them that much. They're
going to ask for this much.
The company that's been running things has
been running things rea11y well-. Everyone I s brought up
real1y good points about the fact that we're having way
too much international influence in our country. And
electricity, gds, water, these are aI1 basic necessary
needs. And I am semiretired now. f had back surgery.
f can't work a seven-hour day wj-thout paying for it for
three days 1n a row. And I know people who have very
limited incomes, and I will have that pretty soon. And
I cannot bel-ieve that we moved out of Cal-ifornia to get
away from that nonsense and we're now looking it in the
face.
Itrs cold up here. We need el-ectricity and
gas and water that's affordable. We need these basic
things. And there is just no way any reasonable,
logical mind can say that our rates will stay low. No
one can say that our rates will stay down. They will go
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up with this merger, especially with a company that has
a reputation of raising rates and running things very
poorly. Thank you.
MR. KJELLANDER: Thank you for your
comments.
Angelo Lonzisero.
MR. KLEIN: Did you testify last nlght?
ANGELO LONZISERO: I did.
MR. KLEIN : You I re stil-l- under oath . Would
you please speI1 your last name for the record?
MR. LONZISERO: L-o-n-z-i-s-e-r-o?
MR. KLEIN: And are you an Avista customer?
MR. LONZISERO: No, f'm not.
MR. KLEIN: Go ahead.
MR. LONZISERO: I rise in opposition to the
approval of the merger. There are a lot of unknowns in
the settl-ement agreements. First unknown is who the
golden share entity is. Gol-den share entity has the
provision to vote all the outstanding shares of the
company on its own. We don't know who that is. We
can't be told who it is. We were tol-d at the previous
meetings that we woul-d be told after the merger. So
that's one thing that we don't have knowledge of.
The second thing we don't have knowledge of
is who will- actually control- the majority ownership if
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an unldentified entity holds veto power over aI1 the
shareholders. Why are these unidentified entities in
the proposed agreement? How can you rule without all
the facts made public? You don't know who the end
person, who's going to be in control of this company is
at this point.
We al-so have no idea of the cost
methodol-ogy of how this cost sharing is going to be from
Avista to Hydro One. That hasn't been divulged. That
won't be divulged until- after the agreement is made.
That doesn't seem 1egal.
You modified the process in the
determination for agreement to this settl-ement. You've
truncated it. You haven't had any evidentiary hearings
that were public. And l-ike I said, we have informatlon
that's out there that we don't know about. The public
is not being lnformed.
My understanding, if we look at al-l the
facts and figures, you have a company thatrs coming from
Canada, they're going to spent six point some odd
billion dol-lars to buy Avista Corporation. If you add
up the costs if I had to replace 15 dams, it woul-d
cost me probably 20 years and probably 50 or 60 billion
dollars to do that. So now you have them buying 15
dams, our infrastructure, that includes our water and
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power, for 6.5 biflion doll-ars. Now you're afso having
a gentleman that comes from Al-aska and says, weII,
there's probabJ-y another 10 or 15 billion dollars in
gold that goes into the deal-.
Then f know you only dea] with the regulated
utilities, but Avista has 13 subsidiaries. They're
thrown into the deal. They have an equity company.
They have a land development company. They're building
a building right down Downtown Spokane right now. They
own all the largest l-and owner probably in Spokane
County. And they don't pay property taxes to boot.
So now you're going to turn all- this over.
If you add up the figures, doesn't make sense, how
you're golng to let a company come down, buy up a
company f or 6. 5 bil-l-ion doll-ars that has assets in
excess of, Sdy, 50 or 60 billion dollars. So they're
going to come down here and buy it for a dime on a
dollar, and everybody's going to assent to it.
We're being sol-d out. Idaho is being sol-d
out. And the other states and Alaska, Oregon,
Washington, Idaho and Montana we're being sold out by
the Public Utilities Commissions and the representatives
from Avlsta, the board and the chairman. Everybody gets
their golden parachutes, off into retirement and we're
left holding the bag.
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I thj-nk it needs to be investigated how this
deal was put together and the real person behind it.
Because I don't think it's Hydro One. I think there's
other entities in the background. They're golng to
bankrupt Hydro One. They're going to put Avista into
the mix with the golden share. They're going to sel-l-
off all our assets to who knows who, for a dime on the
doll-ar. And I will be following, in the future, PUC
commissioners for all these states to see how their
asset val-ues change.
MR. KJELLANDER: Thank you for your
comments.
Jj-m Bossingham.
MR. KLEIN: Do you swear or affirm that the
testimony you are about to give is the truth, the whol-e
truth, and nothing but the truth?
JIM BOSSINGHAM: I do.
MR. KLEIN: Would you please state your name
and spe1l your last name?
MR. BOSSINGHAM: Jim Bossingham, that's
B-o-s-s-i-n-g-h-a-m.
MR. KLEIN: Whatrs your address?
MR. BOSSINGHAM: 1135 West Shane Drive,
Coeur d'Alene.
MR. KLEIN: Are you an Avista customer?
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MR. BOSSINGHAM: Yes.
MR. KLEIN: Please go ahead.
MR. BOSSINGHAM: Do I have the right at this
time to ask the public two questions?
MR. KJELLANDER: No. What you need to do is
address your comments towards the commission. This is
not a workshop.
MR. BOSSINGHAM: Okay. I'11 address to the
commission, then. f'd like the commissions to ask the
audience for a show of hands
MR. KJELLANDER: Si-r, I'm going to interrupt
you there. Again, the purpose of this evening is to get
your testimony on the record, and what we're interested
in is getting your comments or your testimony on the
record. This isn't an opportunity for us or anyone el-se
to try to assess the general nature. We can tell- from
the testimony where things are headed if you're
interested in that, you probably see that, dS well-, so
if you coul-d please address your comments to the
commission, we can move forward, and I appreciate your
indulgence with that.
MR. BOSSINGHAM: Okay. I can't figure it
out, why when our ancestors built so many good thj-ngs,
foundationwj-se, in this country, that we have to tear it
apart and sel-l- it to somebody that we wil-l have no
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control over. ftf s been done federal-wise and
everything. I retired from the federal government. And
they would tell- us time and time agaln, you don't do
anything that harms the general public because they're
the ones that are paying your salary. And if you did,
you were gone in nothing flat, your retirement was gone,
aIl- your benefits, health, everything, was gone. When
it starts to reek of an odor of confl-lct of j-nterest,
you as a board have to take it upon yourself to stop
that. ftrs not right, it's not right in your head or
any of ours. f thank you for your time.
MR. KJELLANDER: Thank you, sir. We
appreciate your comments.
Kenny Moore. Kenny Moore. Oh. f'm sorry,
Kenny.
testimony
truth, and
your Iast
M-o-o-r-e.
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MR. KLEIN: Do you swear or affirm that the
you are about to give is the truth, the whole
nothing but the truth?
KENNY MOORE: I do.
MR. KLEIN: Pl-ease state your name and spell
name.
MR. MOORE: Kenny Moore, K-e-n-n-y
MR. KLEIN: Your address?
MR. MOORE: 31048 East Hayden Lake Road,t
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Hayden, Idaho.
MR. KLEIN: Thank you. Are you an Avj-sta
customer?
MR. MOORE: I am not.
MR. KLEIN: Pl-ease go ahead.
MR. MOORE: Thank you. Irm not a
hydrologist, I'm not a public speaker, and I do not have
the capability to do some of the wonderful presentations
that have been given here today, but I do know a litt1e
about war, and this country is at war, and we're at war
in al-I sorts of different areas today. It isnrt
physical, it isn't using arms and rifles, but it is
using business and strategy to the detriment of the
American people.
When Avista Utllities announced its 6.3
bil-l-ion sale to Ontario' s Hydro One which is nothing
more than a transmissj-on company. It isn't an energy
company. It simply owns some energy assets that it's
acquired. It's about to acquire a ton of more if this
sal-e is approved, whJ-ch is absol-ute1y disadvantageous to
the resi-dents of these five states that are mentioned in
this deal.
Hydro Oners 2076 annual budget report says
it buys its electricity from Ontario's independent
energy supplier operators, and much of that is from
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coal-fired plants. fn fact, the majority comes from
natural- assets like 9dS, fossil fuels and coa1.
This plan that we have seen and we
haven't seen very much of it thatrs been exposed yet
it's all- behind closed doors and things it appears
has B0 regulatlons included in it, and subsj-diari-es that
are expensive strategies that are intended to do one
thing, reduce carbon emissions for their overal-l- assets'
heal-th.
Avista customers are schedul-ed to pay from
$18 to $157 more after the sale that is not for their
electricity, but these are carbon credit charges because
the percentage of what Hydro One will- do in the future
has been clearly outlaid starting after 2020 when the
Paris Climate Accord thing goes into effect for them,
and they start paying tons of penalties each year. They
go up through to 2050 as programmed right now. Their
projections are from Ontario that 21 percent of their
assets that they take in by selling electricity wiII be
used to pay for the cost of electricity and that 93
percent will be to cover the green mandates that come
from their i-ncl-usion in these frivol-ous treaties that
have been put into effect that have never been validated
by science.
Guarantees. Guaranteed rates. I understand
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we have guaranteed rates that wiII go for the next two
years. 2079 and 2020. After that, it's up in the air
what will happen. What we dld see 1n some of the
paperwork that came out from this, that of that, almost
45 percent was to be used initial-ly to pay for their
inabillty to meet the accord that they signed with the
Paris Cl-imate Accord conference. That is significant.
And who will pay that? Hydro One is
bankrupt right now when you look at their assets and
what they have. Theyrre over 20 billion dollars in debt
today. And where are they going to make this up from?
They're going to get a lot of new paying customers, and
those customers are going to experience, we think,
drasticalJ-y increased rates ;ust like the provi-nce of
Canada has experienced since Hydro One took over their
util-ities.
So who is Hydro One really? We don't reaIIy
know. We know some holding companies, but that's
prohlbited from being decl-ared to the public by Canadian
Iaw. U.S. law says it has to be reveal-ed. It hasn't
been revealed yet. How did we sign a deal if we don't
know what the truth is and the bottom l-ine is in these
type of issues?
One of the things that they had a littl-e
workshop here I didn't know it was going to be the
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Last one in this area, but apparently it was. And at
that, Ry wife mentj-oned to one of the assistant attorney
generals who works with the Idaho Utility Commission
that she had heard that the commissioners on the Avista
board were going to be paid a huge sum of money if they
could make thls deal go through and get it to pass. And
she mentioned the fact that she had heard that they were
going to be paid 10 million dofl-ars each. And the
attorney general from our state of Idaho sald that's not
true. He said j-t's actually 15 mll1ion dol-lars. So is
that one of the catalysts that's forcing this to come
along? How many other people are going to be given, ds
one of the other gentlemen said earlier, a golden
parachute to make this deal- a reality?
We only know one thing is the bottom l-evel
of this issue, the only thing we will do is pay
exorbitantly increased rates every month for a utility
that we owned in this country before we gave it away to
a foreign entity, with so many unexplained things in the
public's factor.
f'm a military guy, and f can telI you that
we I re not going to sell- our aircraf t carrj-ers to a
foreign government and expect them to carry out our
mission for us. We woul-d never al-l-ow that to happen.
Yet we're giving somethi-ng away t.hat I believe is more
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pressing in warfare today, and that's water. Water in
thls country, water that goes through our lakes and our
rj-vers and our streams. And Cal-ifornia, many of you
have been to Cal-lfornia, you know what it is down there.
Did we ever bel-ieve in our li-fetime that we would pay
three dollars for an 18-ounce bottle of water? I don't
think so, but water is becomlng the critical- issue and
we are not going to have control of our own water.
I came from Tennessee originally. We had
the TVA. TVA of course is a hydroelectric generator
there. And itrs done a marvel-ous job in many, many
ways, and it has fairly l-ow cost of el-ectricity there.
But we afso had somebody el-se come from Tennessee, and
his name was Al- Gore. And there's a statement around
Tennessee that Al- Gore has never told the truth in his
entire life, but this might be the first time. That is
a moniker that goes with him wherever he goes. He said
in 2003 that if we do not put these mandates for climate
control into effect immediately, by 2013 there wil-l not
be a North Pol-e ice cap. And I think we can look at
that and see that that did not happen.
So most of the things that are driving this
I think are under cover, No. 1, and No. 2, it's time
that we uncover the truth and found the truth in these
things. And most importantly, somebody has to stand up
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for the common people. This board, the utillty
commission board, has that responsibility for the State
of ldaho. And I think it's time to stand up and be
counted, and don't ro11 over because another state did
or whatever or I'm not sure where the money goes in
this, but you can always foll-ow the trail of money. And
eventually, that will become a deciding factor, I think,
in this issue, unless we have patriots that stand up and
stand up for what's America's.
Fina11y, let's protect our citizens and our
God-given natural assets. That's the reason we're here.
Our quality of l-ife in this country is far superior to
the other L21 countries I've visited in this wor1d, and
it's something that the rest of this worl-d woul-d l-ove to
experience. We have it. Why would we give it away and
let it be deteriorated into the 728 that I haven't been
to yet?
That concl-udes my presentation. Do you have
any questions?
MR. KJELLANDER: We thank you very much for
your testimony this evening.
Jess Hermasil-l-o. Jess? Jess Hermasillo?
A11 right. So Jess Hermasillo is a no-show.
Is there anyone else who wou1d like to testify this
evenJ-ng? We've exhausted the l1st that we have from the
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sign-up sheet.
(Lights dim. )
VOICE: See what happens when somebody else
control-s the switch?
MR. KJELLANDER: We'11 take that as your
testimony. Thank you. Are you, by any chance, Jess?
COLTON BOYLES: No, si-r.
MR. KJELLANDER: Okay. If you coul-d be
sworn in, please.
MR. KLEIN: Do you swear or affirm that the
testi-mony you are about to give is the truth, the whol-e
truth, and nothing but the truth?
MR. BOYLES: f do. Colton Boyles, for the
record, B-o-y-I-e-s, PO Box 7242, Sandpoj-nt, Idaho, and
I am an Avista customer.
MR. KLEIN: Go ahead.
MR. BOYLES: Sorry if there's some knocking
around. This is an incredibly small little stand, but I
need my laptop here.
So I just wanted to present to the
commission several- things that f've discovered just
researching some of the groups involved. With the
stipulated agreement, it appears that the stipulated
agreement mentions the Idaho Conservation League. If
you go to the Idaho Conservation League's website, they
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have issued a press release or something similar to that
nature describing how this negotiation took pIace, and I
think it's important for the commission to take a l-ook
at their statements on their website.
This is idahoconservation.org. I wonrt read
the entire statement. T'11 attempt to accurately
summarize it. It just says that ICL was the only voice
at the table focused on replacing fossil fuels with
conservation and cfean energy. ICL played a major role
in negotiations. A1so, it states that the overall
structure of the settl-ement came out of Washington
state, our al-l-ies the NW Energy CoaIj-tion, Renewable
Northwest, Natj-onal Resources Defense Counsel, and
Sierra Club negotiating a deal in Washington that had
many good features. I assume that they're referring to
Washington state.
I found an artlcl-e al-so on the Center for
Competi-tive Enterprise wrj-tten by Maryon Ebell,
E-b-e-1-l- on January \2, 2078. It states, in sum, that
environmental pressure groups and major charitabl-e
foundati-ons, including the Hewlett including the
Hewl-ett Foundation, have been directing, as well as
funding, Vrlashington Governor Jay Ins.l-ee's l-eadership of
the U.S. Cl-imate Al1iance. Based upon e-mails they
recovered, the state agreed to perform a scope of work
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for a nonprofit that includes activities and
deliverabl-es to advance a green agenda.
I'd just like to make the commission aware
that, additionally, on June 5, the U.S. House of
Representatives Committee on Natural- Resources, Rob
Bishop, the chairman, and Bruce Westerman, the chairman
of the subcommittee on oversight and investigation,
issued a six-page letter describing the Natural-
Resources Defense Council and thelr invol-vement with
China, quote, "They're conducting oversight of the
potential manipulation of tax-exempt organizations by
foreign entities to influence U.S. environmental- and
natural resources policy to the detriment of our natural-
interests. " And they highlight recent accounts of
China's vast influence machine. "And given these
emerging concerns in the apparent strong ties between
the Natural Resources Defense Council and the government
of the People's Republic of China and the ruling Chinese
Communist Party, the commj-ttee seeks cl-arification on
the nature of the NRDC's advocacy work to infl-uence U.S.
environmental and natural resources policy based on your
organization's" the NRDC's "re.l-ationship with
foreign entities. " At the end of the letter, they
request "documents sufficient to show NRDC's originally
date of registration as an agent of a foreign princlpal
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pursuant to EAII.A; al-l- documents and communications with
the Department of Justice, including but not limited to,
letters of inquiry or advi-sory opinions referring or
related to FARA registration by the NRDC or its rel-ated
tax-exempt organizations; documents sufficlent to
identify any remuneration, transaction or contribution
that involves the NRDC or its rel-ated tax-exempt
organizatj-ons and any entity or indivldual- associated
with any Chinese official, Chinese national-, Chinese
business interest, lncluding their agents,
representatives or j-ntermediaries; No. 4, documents
sufficient to ldentify any policy or procedures your
organization has implemented to ensure compliance with
Foreign Agent Registration Act requj-rements, includlng
but not limited to, policies or procedures implemented
by the organization'r -- paraphrasing "implemented to
ensure funds from foreign entitles are not used for
politlcal- activitles within the U.S., policies or
procedures the organization implemented to ensure
fundraising activities in the U.S. in whole or in part
on behalf of or in the interest of a foreign government
or entity are discl-osed as required by .l-aw." They
requested the response to be del-ivered in electronic
format if possibl-e? The second -- that involves a
potential allegation of a connection to China.
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The second interesting report I notj-ced is
covering some of the entities involved in the
negotiation of the stipulated agreement. It's from Big
Green Radicals, "From Russia With Love." Itrs a report
created in response to one senate minority report, "The
chain of environmental- command. How a club of
billionaires and thelr foundations control the
environmental movement and Obama's EPA. " That was in
2014. And another more recent report from 2078
regarding Russia's influence on similar entities which
is on my laptop and f'd put up, so I'm not going to
waste the commission's time. However, I wil-l provide
you gentlemen with a copy of that for written comments.
The Big Green Radica1s report I don't personally like
to use the term radical but thej-r report shows a
little graphic here that several Russian energy
interests, energy investments, Russian money laundering,
Russian money laundering investigation, are connected to
a l-aw firm in Bermuda call-ed Wakefield Quinn. There's
also Medal-fion and Meritage Holdings there, I believe
owned mostly by the Simmons Foundation. I believe those
holdings are owned by Renaissance Technology. The
Simmons, Simmons Jr., formed through Wakefiel-d Quinn, we
bel-ieve, Klein Limited, which gives money to a
corporation or association somewhere in Cal,ifornia
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called Sea Change. There's very little information
regarding these entities. Sea Change in turn gives the
money dlrectly to the Natural- Resource Defense Council-
and Sj-erra CIub and the League of Conservation Voters,
among others. Several of IRS form 990s show that
millions of dollars were given to Energy Eoundation,
Natural Resources Defense Council, Sierra Club from Sea
Change, which was given mil-l-ions of dol-l-ars from Kl-ein
Limited.
In conclusion, I respect that the commission
is responsible for making a determinati-on in the best
interest of Idaho according to statute, and I woul-d
recommend that the commission conduct an evidentiary
hearing, because I bel-ieve the modifi-ed procedure is not
adequate to protect the interests of the citizens of the
state of Idaho. And that is my concluding remark. I
appreciate your time. Thank you.
MR. KJELLANDER: Thank you, Mr. Boyles. And
before you l-eave, if you could, before you l-eave this
evening, get with the public informatj-on officer Matt
Evans.
Matt, could you raise your hand?
And just, if possible, give him the links to
some of those so that we can incl-ude those as part of
the record with reference to your testimony, if that
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would be okay wlth you.
MR. BOYLES : Absol-ute1y.
MR. KJELLANDER: Thank you very much.
Is there anyone else who would wish to
testify who hasn't testified yet? Sir? Thank you.
MR. KLEIN: Do you swear or affj-rm that the
testimony you are about to give is the truth, the whol-e
truth, and nothing but the truth?
STEVEN WILLIAMS: I do.
MR. KLEIN: Pl-ease state your name and spe1l
your l-ast name.
MR. WILLIAMS
W-i-1-1-i-a-m-s .
MR. KLEIN:
Steven WiIliams,
Hayden.
MR. KLEIN: Are you an Avista customer?
MR. WILLIAMS: I am.
MR. KLEIN: Please go ahead.
MR. WILLIAMS: I'l-l be brief . I came in
late, and therers probably some rea11y fine comments
before I got here. Irm just when I first heard about
the news of the transaction, scratchj-ng my head, and Irm
just bewil-dered why we would even consider se11ing. You
know, there's probably some nefarious reasons why there
Your address,
MR. WILLIAMS z 9134 North
please ?
Great Hal-l- in
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might be behind thi-s that have been hiqhliqhted. Even
if there weren't any nefarj-ous reasons for why Hydro One
ownerships and radical even if that wasnrt there,
it's still a fool-ish move to seII your greatest I
mean, we've got fantastic energy prices here. It's well-
run companies. ft's just it just makes no sense.
I just got back from Texas, where I'm
originally from. f've been up here five years. And
almost every time I visit my family, they are amazed at
utility prices up here, water, and the fine resources we
have. And I know it's not just a complete giveaway of
resources, but itrs just it makes zero sense of why
you would do this.
I think what's only being you know, the
only thing I can see is there was a carrot out there
that's being dangled, it's five or 10 years -- maybe a
good deal for five or 10 years financially, but after
that you have no guarantees whatsoever, you're giving
away all your rights, and I think every comment I've
heard here tonight is right, this is just not a good 15,
20, 30, 40 year move. And that's what you're there for
is to not just think tactically about what happens this
month or next month. You're there to think about what's
good for the next generation, and I really ask that you
vote this merger down. ft's just not a good idea. And
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the other thing is I do think there's probably a money
trail there for some people at Avista and higher-ups
that they're going to cash out on this thing, and it's
to the detriment of the average rate payer, and it's not
right. Itrs effectively a public good here, and we
should keep it that wdy, and you should hold fdahoans'
interests at the top and vote thls thing down. Thank
you.
MR. KJELLANDER: Thank you for your
testimony.
And yes, if you'd like to come to the
podium, please.
MR. KLEIN: Would you raise your right hand?
Do you swear or affirm that the testimony you are about
to give is the truth, the whol-e truth, and nothing but
the truth?
LILA TATUM: I do.
MR. KLEIN: Woul-d you please state your name
and spel1 your
MS.
T-a-t-u-m.
MR.
Mo.,,J .
Gardens, Idaho.
MR.
last name?
TATUM: My name is Lifa Tatum,
KLEIN:
TATUM:
And what's
7080 North
your address?
VaIIey, in DaIton
KLEIN: Are you an Avista customer?
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MS. TATUM: Yes.
MR. KLEIN : Pl_ease go ahead.
MS. TATUM: I just wanted to share a littl-e
bit of my personal testimony. My first job out of hiqh
school- was at the Washington Water Power. And I want to
emphasize "water power" because it is very, very
powerful. And you know, I donrt think there's a
country, and we know f agree with everybody so far in
this room, and I donrt disagree that there's a country
or a state that wouldn't want our water, that wouldnrt
want to be in the position that we're in here. But the
administratj-on owes it to the people of fdaho to do the
right thing.
f have been keeping up with this merger when
it first came out a long time dgo, and I've been getting
the e-mails and alf this stuff, and been tracking it and
whatnot. And I donrt have a whole l-ot of paperwork here
that I can say and prove and all this and al-l- that, but
I guess I want to just kind of quote a phrase, and it's
"f know a few things because Ifve seen a few thingsr"
and I'm pretty sure that this merger, they're not doing
it for me. I feel fairly confident of that, that
there's you know, that there's going to be a whole
l-ot of other players in this.
I would hope that the other thing that is
I
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worth mentioning is that overslght commj-ttees don't seem
to do a reaIly wonderful job in keeping track of what
everyone's doing. In other words, you know, a l-ot of
things could happen before anything was rea11y ever
brought to the public's eye. And I was born and raised
here in Idaho, in Coeur d'Al-ene, and I just you know,
I just don't think itrs a good merger.
One other story was severa1 years dgo, I
used to work in the lumber industry, and I went to Boise
to get a job. It was with a Canadian outfit, but at
that point in timer we started a little bit of a tariff
war. We1l, the company decided it would go back to
Canada and that was the end of that. And I'm just I
guess what I'm basically trying to say is, l-ike everyone
e1se, I thj-nk this is a bad deal-. I think it's a bad
deal- for us, and I hope that you people wil-l see the
same thing we do here in Idaho, and that's that we l-ove
it here and we don't want to see it how woul-d you say
it? We don't want to see it trashed. And that's
thank you for your time, and that's my story.
MR. KJELLANDER: And thank you for your
comments.
Is there anyone else who needs to testify
this evening?
MR. KLEIN: Mr. Chairman, if there too many
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more people i-f there are going to be other people
testifying, we may want to go on a break at some point.
I think our court reporter's fingers are starting to
smoke a l-ittl-e bit.
MR. KJELLANDER: How smoky are they? I
think we probably have about two more people, and I
think at that point we'l-l- probably be wrapped up. Can
you do that?
THE REPORTER: Yes.
MR. KJELLANDER: Because I'm afraid if we
take a break, we might wind everybody up and everybody
will want to testify a second time.
MR. KLEIN: Do you swear or affirm the
testimony you are about to give is the truth, the whol-e
truth, and nothing but the truth?
NORMAN SEMANKO: I do.
MR. KLEIN: Would you please state your name
and spell your last name?
MR. SEMANKO: Norman Semanko, S-e-m-a-n-k-o.
MR. KLEIN: And whatrs your address?
MR. SEMANKO: Business or residence?
MR. KLEIN: Your choice.
MR. SEMANKO: 800 West Main Street, Suite
1300, Boise, Idaho.
MR. KLEIN: Are you an Avista customer?
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MR. SEMANKO: I am not.
MR. KLEIN: Please go ahead.
MR. SEMANKO: My daughter is. f was grown
up on I grew up on Kootenai Electric and fine
Rathdrum Aquifer water just outside of Rathdrum and a
proud graduate of both Spirit Lake Elementary and
Lakeland Hiqh School-. I'm an attorney with Parsons
Behle & Latj-mer in Boise, Idaho. And f am here tonlght
representing a newly constituted nonprofit association,
unincorporated nonprofit association, Avista Customer
Group. We will be submitting written comments, ds well.
And I understand the commissioners are not
answering questions with regard to procedure. If one of
the commissioners or staff coul-d clarify, with regard to
the process, there is some confusion, at l-east amongst
my client group, oD when written comments are due. I
understand it's June 27 . I saw varj-ous accounts saying
June 20. And maybe there can be some cl-arification
about where we're at in the process under the order that
you issued that resul-ted in the scheduling of this
hearing. We would appreciate that.
Couple of points to make tonight. This
isn't the first time the commission's been down thls
road. And when I say "down this roadr" f'm talking
about a foreign entity acquiring a public utility
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interest 1n the state of Idaho. And I'm going to refer
to that a littl-e bit. f 've had the opportunity over the
l-ast several days to review the entire record that's at
least publicly avail-able to folks on your website. I've
reviewed aII of the direct testimony. I've reviewed al-l-
of the comments. I've reviewed all of the filings, all
of the orders that have been issued. And a few things
stick out to me that I think are worth polnting out.
No. 1 deals with the issue of costs. And
you're well aware of 67-328 (3) (b), that before
authorizinq the transaction, a PubIic Utilities
Commission sha]] find that the cost and rates for
supplying service will not be j-ncreased by reason of
such transaction. Which of course leads to an inqulry
of: What are the costs? What are the current costs for
Avista customers and are they going to be changed and
are rates going to be changed as a result of this
transaction? Itrs not an easy question to look at. Not
surprisingfy, a lot of the direct testimony and evidence
that's in the record is cal-cul-ated to address this
issue, because it is the burden of the applicant to
demonstrate that these criteria, including the one I've
mentioned, have been met.
So I'm going to start with the direct
testimony of Mark and I apologize if I pronounce it
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wrong T-h-i-e-s, Thies, Avista Senior Vice-President,
CFO and Treasurer, in the direct testj-mony that was
filed September 14, 20L7 with the commissioner. And
this is also reflected in the Lopez direct testimony at
page 21. But on page 38 of the direct testi-mony from
the Avista Senior Vice-President, it says, quote,
"Avista commits that Avista's regulated utiJ-ity
customers wil-l be hel-d harmless from the liabilities of
any unregulated activity of Avista or Hydro One or its
affil-iates. In any proceeding before the commission
involving rates of Avista, the fair rate of return for
Avista will be determined wlthout regard to any adverse
consequences that are demonstrated to be attributabl-e to
unregulated activities. Measures providing for separate
financial and accounting treatment will be established
for each unregulated activity. " This is from commitment
No. 44 of the joint applj-cant's filing. You can al-so
see the same language roughly refl-ected in the proposed
stipulation at page 16 in commj-tment 47. "Hydro One,
1ts affil-iates and subsidiaries'r -- a littl-e broader
now "including Avi-sta, commit that Avista's regulated
utility customers wiII be held harml-ess from the
liabilities of any unregulated activity of Avista or
Hydro One and its affj-liates," and then going on to talk
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activities. You
haven't already.
The
obviousl-y will revj-ew this if you
activities, it
went back and I
Kjellander was
Scottish Power
was dealt with.And if you l-ook at condition No. 28, it
unregulatedaddresses this idea that regulated versus
actlvities. There is a provision in the order granting
the merger in 7999-2000 time frame dealing with the
unregulated activities, but condition No. 28 says,
"Scottish Power'r -- which was the big Scottish company
coming in and buying PacifiCorp, which had facilities 1n
fdaho "Scottish Power wil-l not subsidize its
activities" its activities, not its unregulated
activities "will- not subsidize its activities by
allocating to or directly charging PacifiCorp expenses
not authorized by the commission to be so allocated or
directly charged. "
Now, there's language in the stipulation at
the very end of it, I believe, that tal-ks a little bit
about being hel-d harmless, oD page 76 commitment 47, it
says, "Hydro One, its affil-iates and subsidiaries,
including Avista, will hold Avista customers harml-ess
income doesn't come from unregulated
comes from regulated activities. So I
looked at 20 years d9o, Commissioner
involved as a commissioner in the
PacifiCorp merger and this exact issue
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from any business and financial- risk exposures
associated with the Olympus Holding Corporation, Hydro
One and Hydro One's other affil-iates. " What's the scope
of that? Is 1t as broad as what I just read from the
Scottish Power order? Does it cover all regulated
activity costs? You've heard tonight the concern about
costs being spread and whether there will be an impact
on Avista customers from the cost of the bigger company
being spread to the bigger company that now includes
Avista.
From the testimony of Christopher Lopez on
page '7, i-t says, "Furthermore, there wil-l- be no
cross-subsidization of unregulated activities by Avista
customers, and Avista wlll provide access to books and
records required to verify or examine transactions with
Avista or the resulting costs that may be al-locabl-e to
Avista." What are those costs? What are the costs that
could be al-l-ocable to Avista? Does the commission have
those in front of them? I couldn't find them in any of
the direct testimony or any of the numerous exhibits
that were presented with the application.
Does that matter? We11, it seemed to matter
to the commission in the case of Scottish Power.
Condition No. 34 in that order says, "On June 18,
l999rr -- so this is before the merger was voted on,
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before it was approved "Scottish Power PacifiCorp
provided the commission and other jurisdictional state
rate regulators a proposed methodology for the
allocation of corporate and affiliate investments,
expenses and overheads, a statement of where each of the
Scottish Power principal corporate departments will sit
in the corporate structure. This document woul-d
constitute a draft of what is to be filed regarding cost
al-l-ocations, " et cetera, et cetera. "Pacif lCorp
Scottish Power scheduled a conference meeting with state
and other interested regulators on October 29, 1,999 to
discuss the proposed corporate and affiliate cost
aIl-ocation methodology. Further conferences and
meetings wil-l- be scheduled as needed to discuss the cost
allocation issue." So it's apparent that j-n Scottish
Power PacifiCorp, there were cost al-l-ocation
methodologies 1n front of you to Iook at, which would
seem to be crltical- 1n determining whether the
transaction is going to increase cost. What are the
costs that are going to be allocable to Avista?
So what's happening here? In the direct
testimony of Lopez, page 11, the question is asked,
"Does Hydro One make any commitment with respect to how
corporate costs will be all-ocated?" Answer: "Yes,
commitment 23 provides that Avista will filerr -- wiII
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fil-e "cost al-location methodologies used to al-l-ocate
to Avista any costs rel-ated to Olympus Holding
Corporation or its other subsidiarj-es and that Avista
w111 bear the burden of proof in any general rate
caserr -- that's a different proceeding down the road
"that any corporate or affiliate cost al-location
methodology it proposes is reasonable for rate-maklng
purposes. " We gotta Iook at it for merger purposes.
Why aren't the cost allocation methodologies submitted
now? Why doesnf t the PUC have the ability to l-ook at
the cost al-location methodologies as part of this
process prior to approval of the merger? This wou1d
seem to be necessary information.
Going on in the direct testimony of
Patrlck again, I apologize if I pronounce it wrong
Ehrbar, E-h-r-b-a-r, the Avista Director of Rates, State
and Federal ReguJ-ation Department, at pages 72 to 13,
"The cost allocatj-on methodology provided pursuant to
this commitment" -- which again will be in the future
sometime, prior to a rate setting case "wj-l} be a
generic methodol-ogy that does not require commission
approval prior to it being proposed for specific
application 1n a general rate case or other proceeding
affecting rates. " In the stipulation this is carried
through on page 10, commitment 24 of Exhibit A, "The
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cost allocation methodology provided pursuant to this
commitment wil-l be a generic methodology and does not
require commission approvaJ- prior to it being proposed
for specific appllcation in a general rate case. " We
submit this evening, and we wil-I in written testimony,
as wel-l, that that's vital- required information. You
had it, the commission had it, before it, in the case of
the Scottish Power PacifiCorp merger. It's necessary
for making the determination which the applicant bears
the burden for. This information, the ability to put it
together, is within the control of the applicant to
satisfy 67-328 (3) (b), that the cost of and rates for
supplying service wiII not be increased by reason of
such transaction.
Finally, as a water rates attorney, I can't
leave the podium without mentioning that the Scottish
Power settlement had a condition No. 19 with regard to
water rates. Now, we're not in southern Idaho, but
werre in ldaho, and we have water rj-ghts and Avista
projects have water rights. And it's very i-mportant
that the abllity to administer water rights, the bedrock
foundations of Idaho 1aw that govern those projects,
along with the licenses, be adhered to. The Scottish
Power order went into that in great length. And of
course there were some agreements that were that
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needed to be referenced, but it also mentioned the fact
that the water rights needed to be administered pursuant
to Idaho l-aw. That's something that obviousl-y needs to
be l-ooked at here. These projects have water rights.
There are agreements around how these projects Post
Ealls Dam, for example will be operated for the
benefit of aII of the state of Idaho and everyone 1n the
area.
The governor hol-ds a water right in trust
for Pend Oreille Lake and Priest Lake, but also for Lake
Coeur d'A1ene and the water that's held behind Post
FaIIs Dam. It's very important that that be honored
going into the future. That water right was
appropriated all of the unappropriated water
available 1n the lake in 7921 with the license issued
in 7928 at the direction of the legislature to protect
the l-ake and its values for all the people of the state
of Idaho. That is an integral part of the management of
that Iake and of that particular hydroelectric project
owned by Avista not to be forgotten 1n this process.
So with that, again, we do have those
procedural questions. I'm happy to tal-k afterwards with
staff and to get cl-arification on that, but we want to
make sure we're not inadvertently missing any deadlines.
And in our written comments, we will address the issue
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about the modified process versus what we understood was
going to be the process before that order was issued.
We realize we don't have party status. Thls group has
just recently formed. We do intend to be as engaged in
this process as we posslbly can through fruition. Thank
you.
MR. KJELLANDER: And thank you. And I
be1ieve we had one other hand up? We'll just have you
make your way to the podium.
MR. KLEIN: Do you swear or affirm that the
testimony you are about to give is the truth, the whole
truth, and nothing but the truth?
TERRI O'ROURKE: Yes.
MR. KLEIN: V0ould you please state your name
and spe11 your l-ast name?
MS. OTROURKE: Terri O'Rourke,
O- ' -R-o-u-r- k-e .
MR. KLEIN: Whatrs your address?
MS. O'ROURKE: PO Box 1611, Coeur d'Al-ene.
MR. KLEIN: Are you an Avista customer?
MS. OTROURKE: Yes.
MR. KLEIN: Please go ahead.
MS. O'ROURKE: Miners going to be real
short. I am proud of everybody in this room who
prepared and came and real-Iy hit the nail on the head.
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I was an Air Force nurse. The officer in charge of the
tarmac, Lhe airplanes, everything, at in March Air Force
Base, when we met him, he said, "Do the right thing
right. " We have all given our names and our addresses.
I don't know any of you. I woul-d -- I'm going to foIlow
like everybody eIse, and I expect you to do the right
thing right. For the people, for the country, no
f oreigners. That' s aIl-.
MR. KJELLANDER: And thank you for your
comments.
And it appears as if we have made it through
this evening, and I appreciate everyone's willingness to
come out toni.ght and participate. I assume the applause
is your gratitude that you won't have to l-isten to my
voice anymore. If you couId, on your way out this
evening I just want to say a special thanks to School
District 277 for allowing us to use these facil-ities
tonight, and if you could just take any trash with you
that you brought in, I know that they would greatly
appreclate that.
And with that, one other note is that if you
have some additional- comments that you would l-ike to
file in writing, the dead1ine for public comments is
June 27. And so please feel free to go to our webslte
if you'd l-ike to and fil-e your comments through that, or
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you can afso send them directly to our address at the
PUC in Boise.
So wj-th that, w€ are concl-uded and thank you
again.
(Hearing concl-uded at 8:24 p.m. )
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REPORTERI S CERTIFICATE
I, JULIE MCCAUGHAN, Certified Shorthand Reporter,
do hereby certify:
That the foregolng proceedings were taken
before me at the time and place therein set forth, at
which time any witnesses were placed under oath;
That the testimony and all objections made
were recorded stenographically by me and were thereafter
transcribed by me or under my direction;
That the foregoing is a true and correct
record of al-l- testimony given, to the best of my
ability;
That I am not a relative or employee of
any attorney or of any of the parties, nor am I
financially j-nterested 1n the action.
IN WITNESS WHEREOF, I have hereunto set my
hand and seal- July l, 2078.
7ru
JUL]E UGHAN, rD C.S.No.684Notary Public
816 Sherman Avenue, Suite 1
Coeur d'Alene, ID 83814
My Commiss j-on Explres February 9, 2022.
I
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www.mmcourt.com Public Hearing 6/t4/zOtB
Page 110
a
9
o April23,2018
Washington UTC
PO Box47250
Olympia, WA98504-7250
Dear Commission:
I am very much against the merger of Avista Utilities and Hydro One for the following reasons:
Avista is a private corporation built in the best tradition of our capitalistic economic
system. Hydro One is a quasi government corporation in a socialist country.
49% of Hydro One is owned by the Ontario government. Given the Ontario government
will vote all of its shares the same it is too easy for the Ontario government to convince
another 1% plus one vote to vote the same. Should that happen our utilities would
governed by a foreign government in a foreign country.
In the not too distant past, Washington Water Power sold off its water distribution assets
to a private company in Philadelphia. Within months, our cost of water skyrocketed until
such time that we formed Water District #3 and purchased the assets back at an
exorbitant price. Since then the high price of our water has stabilized, but at much higher
rates than surrounding utilities.
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Power rates at Hydro One are some of the highest rates in Canada, while Power rates at
Avista are some of the lowest in the US. After the merger, if Hydro rates go down, our
rates might have to rise much to the disappointment of Washington rate payers.
The socialist government is bent on saving the world through the adoption of a "green"
philosophy which will necessarily be foisted on rate payers in Washington to promote an
agenda of a foreign nation.
Hydro installed "smart meters" at a cost of $2 billion but then had to admit its errors, and sent
about a million letters of apology to its custorners. l'he introduction of smart meters to Ontario,
mandated by the Liberal govemment created peak and off-peak rates that were to spark a
conservation drive across the province; the plan failed. Ontario rate payers are not happy and are
devising ways to defeat the system.
It would appear that I am one lonely voice crying in the wilderness but bottom line is let's keep a
good, solid American company built with the best interests of Washingtonians in mind in the
confines of the USA. Avista is a great company that should not be sold to anyone let alone a
quasi socialist government corporation.
Very Sincerely
John W. Miller
2124 S. Herald Rd
Spokane Valley, W A 99206
.a -l -t vt(8 Lo (g
)
o
FOR SUBSCRIBERS
Doug Ford ran for premier as a populist, but now that his Progressive
Conservatives have been elected, no one seems to know how the future leader
will govern. What he does with Hydro One Ltd. may offer the first clue.
Early in the campaign, Mr. Ford vowed to fire the utility's chief executive
officer and replace its board of directors in his first days as premier. The Tory
Leader made an issue of Mayo Schmidt's $6.2-million pay package "You can
take this to the bank, the CEO is gone and the board is gone."
That message may have resonated with voters sick of rising electricity costs.
But Mr. Ford omitted that the province can exert only so much influence over
the $12-billion company, because its power is constrained by a governance
agreement set in place when the province took Hydro One public.
STORY CONTI NUES BELOW ADVERTISEMENT
Under the existing rules, the government has no right to fire Mr. Schmidt.lt
can replace the existing directors, but a committee of independent
shareholders can influence who the new nominees are. And the replacement
directors " must meet the same qualification and independence standards" as
any other director.ln other words, political hacks aren't welcome.
Hydro One's largest independent shareholders, which include Investors
Group, Bank of Nova Scotia's investment management arm and Fidelity
Investments, either declined to comment or did not return requests for
comment on Friday.
However, investors signalled their approval for the CEO at Hydro One's
annual meeting in April by voting 92per cent in favour of his pay package.
The real test of Mr. Ford's populism, then, will be whether he still tries to boot
the board despite these constraints, simply to keep his campaign promise, or
whether he puts his focus on other measures that will have a more
meaningful impact on Ontario's economy.
o
o
o
o
SUBSCRIBE BUSINESS SERVICES CONTACT US
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351 King Streef East, Suife 1600, Toronto, ON.Canada, MsA 0N1
Phillip Crawley, Publisher
o
,IJ
Reevely: Quit immediately,o Doug Ford tells Hydro 0ne's
board
o
DAVID REEVELY Updated: May 1, 2018
Ontario PC leader Doug Ford speaks to the media regarding tfie cost of firing the board and CEO of
Ontario Hydro a week after he declared at a press conference that the firings would be his first act if
elected Premier of Ontario in the next election. Toronto, Ont on Thursday April 19, 2018. Stan
Behal/Toronto Sun/Postmedia Network STAN B E H AL / STAN B E H AL/TO RO NTO S U N
Everyone ontheboard of Hydro One should
re sign imm e diately, Progre ssive Conse rvative
leader Doug Ford says, for making it expensive
for him to fire the utility company's chief
executive onlybecause he wants to.
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Ontario Premier Kathleen Wynne, right speaks as Ontario Energy Minbter
Glenn Thibeault looks on during a press conference in Toronto on Thursday,
March 2,2017, to announce the government's hydro relief plan. FRANK
GUNN / THE CANADIAN PRESS
Most people won't find that satisfactory at this point, but poke around
private U.S. power utilities and you'll find that their presidents and
vice-presidents indeed are paid like Hydro One's. The president of
Consumers Energy in Michigan (more direct customers, smaller
territory) is paid $8.8 million Cdn. The chief executive of New
England's Unitil (fewer customers, smaller territory) is paid $4.4
million Cdn. The CEO of Con Edison in New York (lots more
customers, much smaller territory) is paid $12.2 million Cdn.
Hydro One's executive pay is out of whack compared with other
public servants', though. Against the president of Hydro-Qu6bec's
$543,000, Schmidt's $6 million is ludicrous.
The New Democrats have a different honest answer: Hydro One
should be a public utility and we're going to buy it back and then
we'll be in charge of it.
The Ford solution is apparently to leave Hydro One out there like an
independent corporation but yell at it until it does what he wants.
Making Hydro One a semi-private corporation turned it into a pitiable
monstrosity. What it does is naturally a public service in the first
place, and selling just over half of it produced some quick cash at the
cost of long-term profits. Meanwhile, whatever private-sector
discipline it got is being wiped out by the punishment it's taking for
daring to act like the private company the Liberals told it to be.
d reevely@postmed ia. com (mailto :[e-mail])
twitter. com/d avid reevelv (http://twitter.com/davidreevely)
DOUG FORD (HTTP://OTTAWACITIZEN.COM/rAC'/DOUG-FORD)
KATHLEEN WYNNE (HTTP://OTTAWACITIZEN.COM/TAG/IGTHLEEN-wYNNE)
o
o
o
ELECTRIC !TY (HTTP ://OTTAWACITIZEN.COM/TAG/ELECTRICITY)
HYDRO ONE (HTTP://OTTAWACITIZEN.COM/IAC'/IIYDROONE)
I..--
ITHE STARI
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Toronto Star content for distribution to colleagUeS, clients or customers, or inquire about
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IilTRODUCTilG [ocAL, IrnTlo]tf,t & GLoBnL cottERAGE.
Ford's anger at CEO pay sparks talk
of selling off Hydro One
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By JENNIFER WETLS Business Columnist
Tues., June t2r 2018
When Doug Ford set his sights on the CEO of Hydro One with an off-with-his-head
declaration, the first question posed was the obvious one: can he do that?
The premier-designate grew blustering over Mayo Schmidt's $6.2-million pay packet,
dubbing Schmidt the $6-million man. Perhaps Ford has action-packed memories of
watching Lee Majors in his multimillion-dollar guise, back when Ford was a young teen
and TV shows were broadcast through big pieces of boxy furniture into Etobicoke
bungalow rumpus rooms.
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Selling out Hydro One would relieve Doug Ford of the pressure of making
good on his Trumpian "You're Fired" promise. (AARON VINCENT ELKAIM /
THE CANADTAN PRESS F|LE PHOTO)
The swollen pay packet made for an effective electioneering sound bite, tapping the
frustrations of bill-paying consumers, even when it was not quite understood how Hydro
One Ltd., the transmission and distribution company, connects to the cost of heating. But
memories of Eleanor Clitheroe are still fresh in the minds of some voters. The manic
attempts at a $S.S-billion privatization by the long ago Conservatives, the outcry over
executive compensation, the introduction of legislation authorizing the minister of
enerry to fire the board (the cleverly named Clean Up Hydro One Act), appoint their
replacements and set restrictions on compensation, the enmasse resignation of said
board. June 2oo2was a wild time for Hydro. Clitheroe was fired like a circus performer
shot out ofa cannon.
So the fast answer is sure, there are ways and expensive means to up-end the governance
of Hydro One, if the new as-yet-unnamed minister of enerry puts her mind to it.
The fresh complicating factor, created by the Liberals under Kathleen Wynne, was the
company's partial privatization - so there is market credibility at stake. Investors who
bought into Hydro One's pitch to aggregate and consolidate North American utilities are
anticipating the successful completion of its $6.2-billion all-cash takeover of Avista Corp.,
headquartered in Spokane, Wash., with a promised closing date before year's end.
Disrupting the governance of the acquiring company now risks redefining the province of
Ontario as the land where serious investors dare not tread.
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So what's a new government to do?
Selling a majority interest in Hydro One brought with it limitations. No individual or
company can acquire a stake that exceeds ro per cent. In an attempt to maintain the
facade of a publicly owned utility, a 4o-per-cent floor was placed under the province's
own stake in the company.
A betting person might conclude that premier-designate Ford will start his examination
of Hydro here, at ground zero. No doubt his economic advisers are going to get an earful
on the merits of selling out altogether.
Ben Dachis, associate director of research at the C. D. Howe Institute, has been making
the case for sale. "Best to cash out now," he wrote in a note earlier this month. His
argument is twofold. One: the risk to taxpayers. "Think of investing your money,
taxpayer dollars, your individual retirement in a business that just might end up being
like owning old school telephone stocks in the early 199os," Dachis said in an interview.
"Is that something you really want?...We as taxpayers are invested in this old school
business. This might not be the best thing 10, 15 years from now."
Two: the value of money. "We're looking at $z5o million in dividends per year. That's
what we'd give up," he says. The upside: an estimated $Z billion from the sale of the
remaining piece of the company. "That amounts to z7 years of cash flow. From a
perspective of looking at long-term costs versus short-term benefit of the sale, z7 years of
up front cash flow is a great deal for taxpayers."
Ratepayer protections? "Rate regulation through the Ontario Enerry Board (OEB) is very
clearly there to protect consumers. You're going to have that whether it's a private
company or a public company," Dachis says. What's to prevent the government from
caving to a successful business lobby that equates "modernizing" the enerry board with
weakening its powers? "Obviously if the government totally ties the hands of the OEB it's
not going to be enough."
But wait. Twenty-seven years of cash flow may sound enticing to the investor community.
To anxious ratepayers concerned about the costs for fufure generations, that sounds like
a short-term promise.
In FebruaV, the Financial Accountability Office of Ontario (FAO) drilled into the partial
sale of Hydro One. The negative impacts due to the sale of the 53 per cent stake are
estimated to result in a lost net ineome share of $r.r billion in this current fiscal year, and
an average of $z6q million a year in each of the five years following. If the province
wanted to fund infrastructure, the FAO found, it would have been far cheaper to issue
provincial debt. How much cheaper? On the scale of $r.B billion.
That's just tragic. But what's done is done.
There will be no turning back now to a broad mandate of keeping essential services in the
hands of the public.
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For Doug Ford, the question will be how far forward to take the new Hydro. Selling out
relieves him of the pressure to make good on his Trumpian "You're Fired" promise. That
4o-per-cent threshold, by the way, is not immovable. As the FAO points out in a footnote,
the Electricity Act provides for the purchase of shares by the province should its stake
fall below 40 per cent as a result, say, of another acquisition. But that purchase would be
triggered "only if the plan to acquire additional shares is approved by Cabinet...and the
requisite monies are made available by the Legislature."
If Hydro One follows through on its stated ambitions, falling below 40 per cent sounds
inevitable.
That only bolsters the argument for sale. "I totally think this is a great moment," Dachis
concludes.
Ontario PC Leader Doug Ford is pledging to remove the CEO of Hydro Oge if
elected premier. PC energy critic Todd Smith acknowledged that the
government can only replace the company's board of directors, and only the
board can fire the CEO. (The Canadian Press)
And so the battle over the future of Hydro One begins. Or more correctly, bugrrrs again.
[e-mail]
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