20200707Telephonic Hearing Transcript Vol I.pdf

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CSB REPORTING
C ertiJied S ho rt h and Reporters
Post Office Box9774
Boise,Idaho 83707
csbrepo rti n g(ilyahoo. com
Ph: 208-890-5198 Fax: l-888-623-6899
Reporter:
Constance Bucy,
CSR
BEFORE THE IDAHO PUBLIC UTILITIES COMMISSION
IN THE MATTER OF THE APPLICAT]ON
OE ROCKY MOUNTAIN POWER TO
CLOSE THE NET METERING PROGRAM
TO NEW SERVTCE & IMPLEMENT A NET
BILLTNG PROGRAM TO COMPENSATE
CUSTOMER GENERATORS FOR
EXPORTED GENBRATION
CASE NO. PAC-E-19-OB
TELEPHON]C HEARING
BEFORE
COMMISSIONER KRISTINE RAPER (Presiding)
COMMISS]ONER PAUL KJELLANDER
COMMISS]ONER BR]C ANDERSON
PLACE:Commission Hearing Room
11331 West Chinden Blvd.Building 8, Suite 201,-ABoise, Idaho
DATE:June 22, 2020
VOLUMEI-Pagesl-L4
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CSB REPORTING
Wilder, Idaho 8367 6
APPEARANCES
For the Staff:Edward ilewel,l
Deputy Attorney General
11331- West Chinden BIvd.
PO Box 83120Boise, Idaho 83720-0074
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INDEX
WITNESS EXAMINATION BY PAGE
William Scouten
( PubIic)
Statement 4
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BOTSE, TDAHO, MONDAY, JUNE 22, 2020, 3:00 p. M
COMMISSIONER RAPER: Good afternoon.
This 1s the time and place for a public hearing in Case
No. PAC-E-I9-08, al-so referred to as in the matter of the
application of Rocky Mountain Power to close the net
metering program to new service and implement a net
billing program to compensate customer generators for
exported generation.
The purpose of this hearing is to take
testimony from members of the public in reference to
Rocky Mountain Powerfs request. My name is Kristine
Raper. I am the Chair of today's proceeding. We also
have Commissioner Paul- Kjellander and Commissj-oner Eric
Anderson on the line both to my right, if it matters to
anyone on the phone.
To this point, the partles have
exceeded a comment deadline. This is now the
already
time and
place for the public hearing, although it is my
understanding that. there's currentl-y nobody on line that
wishes to publicly testify. I'm going to verify.
(Pause in proceedings. )
COMMISSIONER RAPER: For purposes of
having a complete record and also allowing a few extra
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2
mj-nutes for anybody who wants to call in to testify,
with theirlet's document the parti-es that are present
counsel and we'11 start with the Deputy Attorney General
representing Staff.
MR. JEWELL: Thank you, Commissioner.
Good afternoon, Commissioners. My name is Edward Jewe11,
that's J-e-w-e-l-l, and I am representing the Commission
Staff in this matter.
COMMISSIONER RAPER: Thank
(Pause in proceedings. )
COMMISSIONER RAPER: SO I
to the best
you.
will identify
of my knowledgethe other parties to the case
based on our IT assistant at the dais. There are not
other attorneys for the parties on the 1ine. They can
certainly l-et us know after the fact if they are, but
parties to the case are Rocky Mountain Power, Idaho
lrrigation Pumpers Association, the Idaho Conservation
League, and the Idaho Clean Energy Associatj-on, none of
whom wou1d be abl-e to testify at this proceeding anyway.
They woul-d just have the opportunity for
cross-examination if they chose.
So at this point I think we'If go off the
record for about 10 minutes and see if anyone el-se call-s
and if therefs an opportunity for anyone to provide
public testimony, and in the interim, we wilf have our25
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IT/PIO double-check telephone numbers on the l-ine to make
sure that we didn't miss anyone and we'II go off the
record.
(Off the record. )
COMMISSIONER RAPER: Okay, we wil-l- go back
on the record. Again, thj-s is PAC-E-I9-08. The purpose
of this telephonic public hearj-ng is to provide customers
with an opportunity to make statements on the record
about the study design phase, including statements about
what should be studied and how the study should be
conducted. In addition, the telephonlc public hearing
wil-I provide customers the opportunity to comment on the
Company's proposal to grandfather exj-sting customers with
on-site generatj-on for 10 years, so l-et me explain the
procedures and parameters of how today's hearing will go.
When we call your four, last four, digits
of your phone numberr we will- unmute your phone and al-l-ow
you to testify. You will first be sworn in, as you would
for any other official- courtroom proceeding. I will- ask
you to identify yourself for the record, which wil-l-
incl-ude your name, spelling of your last name, address,
and whether you are a customer of Rocky Mountain Power.
When you've completed your statement,
attorneys for the parties will be provided an opportunity
to ask you questions, although I befleve the only one
CSB REPORT]NG
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4 SCOUTEN
Public
present or on the Iine is the attorney for
Staff . In any event, the prospect shoul-d
you from testifying. Attorneys rarely ask
are not here to intimidate or inhibit your
any way.
We do use a court reporter for these
proceedings. Today
create an official
we have Connie Bucy and she will
record for our transcript, so unless
missed something
Commission
not dj-scourage
questions and
testimony in
very
the last four
my colleagues find that I
important, we wil-l- go to
digits 5103, and sir, are
appearang as
was exami-ned
unmute cal-l-er with
you on the line?
THE AUDIENCE: Yes, I am.
WILL]AM SCOUTEN,
a public witness, having been duly sworn,
and testified as follows:
COMMISSIONER RAPER: Could you state your
name and speI1 your l-ast name
THE W]TNESS:My name
S-c-o-u-t-e-n. I live at 3821, East t2 North, Rigby,
Rocky MountainIdaho, 83442, and I am a customer of
COMMISSIONER RAPER: Thank you, sir, and
did you say your last was S-c-o-u-t-e-n?
for the record, please?
is William Scouten,
Power.
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5 SCOUTEN
Publ-ic
THE WITNESS: Correct
COMMISSIONER RAPER: Thank you. Go ahead
and make your statement for the record.
THE W]TNESS:
regarding the initial- change
was dated July 2tst, 2079, so
record. I'm supposing it is
main concern was two thlngs:
it was based primarily on the
Wel1, I submi-tted a letter
of Schedule 135. My letter
I guess it's a part of the
being public connected. My
When I invested in so1ar,
return on
Schedul-e 135. My erroneous
PUC and Rocky Mountain Power
careful-Iy enough to provide
that Schedu]e 135 was viable
a sofar system.
assumption
had studied the issue
their customers assurance
and would be for the life of
investment by
was that the Idaho
I see it, isThis particular case, ds
on the fact that both thetotally based
Mountain Power
read, they
signals to
PUC and Rocky
and by some of the written record I've
said well-, we perhaps gave erroneous rate
sol-ar customers and that was hard to believe,
that at some point in the future after
to believe Schedul-e 135 was based and
principles that they woul-d later come
customers, oops, sorry, we misled you.
change your Schedule 135 to something
tota1ly, totally different than what
leading customers
founded on sound
back and teIl
We're going to
that would be
my decj-sions were25
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CSB REPORTING
208.890.5198
6 SCOUTEN
Public
when I purchased
and f donrt have
basically I was
difficult thing
system, and I
of it in front
the misleading
think my letter,
of me, but
as a very
two professional
a sol-ar
a copy
stating
for me to accept from
organizations, Rocky Mountain Power and the PUC, and a
normal customer, I guess from my point of view, doesn't
really invest a lot of time in the analysis which is
extremel-y detailed, extremely technically written.
What a customer does is looks at the rate
schedule and doesn't investigate any of the background
that was presented in providing a Schedule 135, at least
I did not. f gave credit to Rocky Mountain Power and the
PUC that they were presenting something that was viable
and an advantage to their customers to participate. I
did and now I'm being told that that was a terrible
decision on your part because
Schedul-e 135 was good, but we
so now we I re going to change
should have been in the first place.
bel-ieve from a customerrs
dare say outside of very
That is hard to
point of view, because I would
professional- organizations, large
organizations that can hire staff to argue the case one
way or another wdy, a typical customer just gives I
we misl-ed you. We told you
rea11y knew it wasn't and
it back to what we knew it
customer-oriented
guess the view is that the PUC, the ldaho Publ-ic25
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CSB REPORTING
208.890.5198
Utilities Commission, is
Mountain Power to their
a customer advocate and Rocky
customers will- also be honest,
straightforward, and give a customer the
need to make an informed decision without
information they
in a rate case, which they're probably not
participating
abl-e to do, so
my first point was that I think customers that are
currentfy on Schedule 135 and then you want to
grandfather them in for 10 years and maintain that
schedule, that is simply wrong.
It is morally wrong. It is ethically
wrong. In every way possible it's wrong to have told a
customer one thing and then turn around and say we11,
oops, we reaIly misled you, and I think in statements
from Public Utilities Commission members said that we
probably sent erroneous rate si-gnaIs. When I heard that
and read that, I said, you have got to be kidding me. We
perhaps sent erroneous rate sJ-gna1s? Are you kidding?
And then so I've invested in a system and I made a
couple of just extraneous points from my perspective
having felt l-ike I was misled, decej-ved, and I put a
bunch of other ad;ectives in there, hoodwinked, whatever
you want to call- it.
I was led down a road that rea11y had no
logical concfusion. It was going to be a dead end road
for me as a sofar customer, and just like I said in the
1 SCOUTEN
Public
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I
l-etter, had I known what I know now, I would just invest
in Rocky Mountain Power stock and have the PUC represent
me and make sure Rocky Mountain Power got a return on
their investment and so I would always be protected as a
customer, because the PUC didn't represent me. They
represented that Rocky Mountain Power's Schedul-e 135 was
viabl-e and J-egltimate r so that ' s No . 1 .
I feel like I invested in a dead horse
based on j-nformation that was presented by Rocky Mountaj-n
Power in Schedul-e 135, so my
investment
prr-mary argument
simply a return
hoodwinked me.
argument. You
You created fraud in my estimation. You
sold me something that wasn't real. It was an illusion.
That was first point.
My second point was that yeah, I did give
consideration to the fact that solar is, what would one
Say, part of the green movement or whatever and I'm not
an advocate for everything going on in what would be
termed the green movement or climate
other acron)rms that have
some of the things and I
been put on
think as citizens
was just
j ust
or any of the
believe in
we have an
on
change
ir. r
obligation to protect our planet, do the best we can by
our environment, and so yeah, as a secondary concern, I
said yeah, solar is a good thing.
Itrs going to be something that probably
SCOUTEN
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9 SCOUTEN
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as the future goes wil-l-
become more efficient as
probably drop in
a transmission
cost. It wil-l-
don't the power I generate
generator
if I were
system or
in terms
system, but
to turn it
a battery
you
back
on my home through
or whatever woul-d
storage
cheaper
cost nothing
Electricity in
and usage is becoming
and much more viable
backup
of transmissi-on
al-l- forms in terms of
a
costs or power generation costs outside of my home, and I
could do that and I think in the future it wil-l become
more viabl-e for customers to do that.
solar systems, all kinds of things. They
to fossil fuels, but my issue, I've been
Mountain Power I'm now 70 years o1d.
cheaper and
in terms of
cheaper and
automobiles,
are an offset
on Rocky
I've been on
adult life with
spent at Idaho
served by Idaho
Rocky Mountain
the exception
Power pretty much my whole
of
State University
Power.
a short period of time I
for four years, which is
Idaho Power has a hydro system that
generates some of their
Power for the most part
is mostly a fossil fuel-
9ds, and they
participate in
other words, I
electricity. Rocky Mountain
in my estimation, in my research,
generator, coa1, oj-1, natural
have expanded into some things, and I al-so
what they cal-l- their Bl-ue Sky Program; in
said, oh, let's go ahead and give a dol-Iar25
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208.890.5198
SCOUTEN
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every month on my bill to the Blue Sky Program so
green, so my solar
responsible citizen
Mountain Power can become more
was al-so in an effort to be a
earth, take care of it.
The other thing that Irve seen over time
as Rocky Mountain Power has requested rate adjustments
and mostfy up, some down as natural- gas has changed, but
mostly j-ncreases and al-l- the increases from what I could
see were pretty much the greater need of generation
capacity. They needed more electricity to serve a
growing customer base and so I said okay, again, solar
can offset that future need for generating capacity to
serve a growing base. As a matter of fact, Lf a lot of
customers woul-d invest in sol-ar, that generating capacity
perhaps could be pushed to nothing and so al-l- they would
need to do is maintain the infrastructure they have in
terms of service lines, but no new generating capacity,
and so I had a decision to make when I purchased solar
and it was based on the arguments I just mentioned, but
I'11 have to admit, primarily it was a very good return
on investment.
The other issues regarding the
environment, those were secondary concerns, but still
important, so here I am and I've never testified before
the PUC or anybody else in terms of a public commission
Rocky
system
of the
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SCOUTEN
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that represents the public's interests, but I am here
today because this has really aggravated me somewhat to
the point that I did decide to wrj-te a letter and sdy,
you know, this is just wrong and being 10 years o1d, I
had a lot of people say weII, why in the world would you
invest in a solar system when you're not going to l-ive
long enough for it to pay you back, and so T could
justify it based on the return on investment and enhanced
value to my home and environmental concerns, so I had all
kinds of reasons why I did what I did and I stil-l- have
those same reasons, but I think grandfathering me in for
10 years is a ridicul-ous proposition.
I think a 15- to 2O-year payback is more
vj-able and should be entertained and f don't know, but
frve seen or read 1n the newspaper and
about Utah where Rocky Mountain Power
had these same issues and I don't know
other publications
I haven't followed it that closely, but
how they decided.
I can't
road it would beimagine and maybe 10
viable, but the present
it three or four years
return on investment in
years down the
cost of solar when I invested in
d9o, you're
10 years.
happen on most of the systems. The
significantly and continue to drop, so that might be a
future depreciatj-on of a solar system, but it's at not
does business has
not going to get a
ft's not going to
costs have come down
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present, So thatrs basj-cal-l-y what I have to say.
fn one sense, it's an emotional argument,
but j-t's mostly based on facts that f've stated in terms
of the return on investment and the environmental-
concerns. A11 those are viable and they were viable
reasons I made the decision and I based my decision on
Mountain Power and thethe "erroneous" rate signals Rocky
whichPUC sent with Schedul-e 135,I think was, like
said, almost fraudul-ent based on what you're doing
so anyway, that's my statement. I appreciate your
and I may stay on to l-isten if there's any other
testimony.
r
now,
time
COMMISSIONER RAPER: You are welcome to
stay on the line. Thank you for your testimony, and for
never having testified in a public proceeding before, I
think you did a very good job and I woul-d encourage you
to contj-nue to fol-l-ow the case, and you are correct that
your written comments that you submitted have the same
force and effect as any testimony here today, so I would
encourage you to continue along with the case and if you
find that based on some revised comments or reply
comments that the parties make, if you have anything
additional to add to the record, please feel- free, and
I'm going to see i-f we have any additional call-ers on
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THE WITNESS: Thank you.
(The witness l-eft the stand.)
COMMISSIONER RAPER: Okay, we have no an
additional
the public
hearlng to
2nd to file
ca11ers, so I'm
workshop and the
this point, the
going to state that based on
comments and the public
until July
16th to file
parties now have
revised comments and until July
a repJ-y based on those revi-sed comments.
Any persons or parties to the case or
members of t.he public may continue to file written
comments in the case up through July 16th, and with that
and no other callers on the 1ine, this public hearing is
adj ourned.
(The telephonic public hearing adjourned
at 3226 p.m. )
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AUTHENTICATION
This is to certify that the foregoing
telephonic proceedings held in the matter of the
application of Rocky Mountain Power to close the net
metering program to new service and implement a net
billing program to compensate customer generators for
exported generation, commencing at 3:00 p.m.r or Monday,
June 22, 2020, dt Commi-ssion Hearj-ng Room, 11331 W.
Chinden B1vd., Building No. 8, Suite 20L-A, Boise, Idaho,
is a true and correct transcript of said proceedings and
the original thereof for the fil-e of the Commission.
L<s louet- \)
ANCE S. BUCYCertified Shorthand Report 787
MY
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t4 AUTHENTICAT]ON