20130909Volume I 8-27-13.pdf

ORIGINAL
BEFORE THE IDAHO PUBLIC UTILITIES COMMISSION
CASE NO. PAC-E-13-04
IN THE MATTER OF THE APPLICATION
OF PACIFICORP DBA ROCKY MOUNTAIN
POWER TO INITIATE DISCUSSIONS WITH
INTERESTED PARTIES ON ALTERNATIVE
RATE PLAN PROPOSALS
PLACE:
BEEORE
COMMISSIONER MACK REDTORD (Preslding)
COMMISSIONER PAUL KJELLANDER
Rlgby City HalI
L58 West Fremont
Rigby, Idaho
DATE:
VOLUME
August
I - Pages
27, 2013
1- - 16
CSB REPORTING
Constance S. Bucy, CSR No. 187
23876 Applewood Way t Wilder, Idatro 83676
(208) 890-sre8
Email [e-mail]
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APPEARANCES
For the Staff:Neil Price, Esq.
Deputy Attorney General
4'72 West Washington StreetBoise, Idaho 83120-0074
Danie1 E. Solander, Esq.
Rocky Mountain Power
Post Office Box 10Boise, Idaho 83707-0070
For PacifiCorp dba
Mountain Power:
Rocky
APPEARANCES
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INDEX
WITNESS EXAMINATION BY PAGE
Bruce Baxter Statement
( PubIic )
Robert Ztel Statement
( PubIic )
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R]GBY, ]DAHO, TUESDAY AUGUST 28 2073 7:00 P M.
COMMISSIONER REDFORD: Good evening. f'm
glad to see the fol-ks here that showed up. f 'd like to
read a few things into the record, if I couId, and the
reason I'm doing so is because this is a littl-e bit of a
different animaf that we're dealing with as opposed to a
regular rate case. Itrs as a result of a stipulation
between the parties, albeit one who has not agreed, but
al-l- other parties have agreed to a stipulation to the
rate case. f just wanted to state, too, that the
settlement in a nutshell is that Rocky Mountain Power has
agreed that it will not file any request to increase its
base rates in Idaho before May 37, 2075, with any new
rate not effective until January 1 of 2076.
Revenue requirements for aII schedules
wil-l- be increased by the unj-form percentage of 0.11
percent. The parties further agree that within each
schedule it will- be recovered by increasing only energy
by a uniform percentage amount. These rates a1low
recovery of also 21 percent of the Populous to Terminal
transmj-ssion line. I think you all have heard that
before and we have talked about this Populus to Terminal
route and also Gateway West and so forth. The last rate
CSB REPORTING
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COLLOQUY
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case we had we disallowed about 21 percent of the
increase because we felt that it was not used and useful
at that time, a portion of it.
On the table behind you there is a suflimary
of al-l the changes the parties have agreed to and please
feel free to take one of those if you would l-ike. My
name is Mack Redford. f'm one of the three Commlssioners
who make up the State of Idaho, Idaho Public Utilities
Commission. To my right is Commissioner Kjellander.
Sitting to my -- excuse me, and Marsha Smith is excused.
Marsha Smith is a Commlssioner. The three of us make up
the Commj-ssion and we are here to take comments by the
public regarding the PacifiCorp settlement agreement.
NeiI Price.
state. We'f
Would you li
Representing the PUC is a state attorney
He's a Deputy Attorney General for the
I now take the appearances of the partj-es.
ke to make your appearance?
MR. SOLANDER: Daniel- Solander. Irm the
Rocky Mountain Power representing theattorrrey for
Company.
COMM]SSIONER REDEORD:
MR. PRICE: My name is
Deputy Attorney General representing
COMM]SS]ONER REDFORD:
other parties here, so we won't worry
Good.
Neil- Price. I 'm a
Commission Staff.
f don't see any
about that. f'd
COLLOQUY
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also like to make note that Representative Del- Raybould
is here. He's a legislator and resides in this county.
I want to take a few moments to discuss the hearlng
process. As Commissioners, we are very much like judges
in the case and this case resembl-es a court hearing.
Because we act as judges of the caser we donrt answer
questions or make comments regardi-ng our opinion of the
case. Later on there wil-I be a technical hearing which
wil-l take place in Boise in front of al-l the parties,
including the party that did not stipulate to the
agreement.
Just because of the proposed settlement,
I'd Iike to stress that that does not mean that the
Commission accepts the agreement. We ask that no one
speak out of turn. f guess we only have two people, so
j-t rea11y won't make much dlfference. We are wj-l-l-J-ng and
pleased to hear your testimony tonight. I think I speak
for al-l of us when I say that we are very much aware of
the current state of the economy and the burden that
additional rate increases pJ-aces on the customer.
You may be assured that we take this
settlement agreement very seriously and we are determj-ned
not to approve anything that the Iaw provides beyond what
the statutes require us and what we consider to be the
public interest of both the utility and the customers.
COLLOQUY
Our procedure tonlght is that once you
in the order in which you've signed up, werl-l- ask you to
take the oath which Commission Kjel-lander will give you
and you may be asked a question or two by either the
Commissioners or Rocky Mountain Power or Mr. Price. If
you don't wish to make a public statement t.onight, you
may always use the form in the back of the room to submit
a wrltten comment if you so choose to. If you submit
written comments, we ask that you do so no later than
what day would you say that would be?
MR. FADNESS: The 11th of September.
MR. PRICE: I can't remember off the top
of my head.
COMMISSIONER REDFORD: The 11th of
September, which is the last day of the proceedings in
this matter.
MR. FADNESS: Excuse me, Commissloner,
September 13th.
COMMISSIONER REDFORD: September 13th,
excuse me, so with that settled, we'11 begin with the
first person who signed up to testify. Sir?
MR. EADNESS: Commissioner, nobody signed
in, but I might speak --
THE WITNESS: I didn't sign up. I'11 be
glad I wonrt ask any questions. I have to admit that
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I came here tonight unprepared.
BRUCE BAXTER,
appearing as a public witness, having been first duly
sworn, testified as follows:
EXAM]NATION
BY MR. PR]CE:
0 Okay, Mr. Baxter, can you go ahead and
state your name and your address for the record?
A Bruce Baxter, 7 North 3192 East.
a City?
A Idaho Ea1ls 834 83401.
O Thank you, and are you a Rocky Mountain
Power customer?
A Iam.
O Okay, go ahead.
A I'd l-ike to thank the Commissioners for
coming here tonlght. I'm disappointed that we don't have
members of the press. There was an article in the l-ocal
newspaper. ft's a weekly, so f'm not sure that very many
people know about this tonight, and once again, f came
unprepared. I thought it. was a workshop. I didn't
realize that it was the hearing. Your public spokesman
BAXTER
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Gene h-adness does an excellent job. He's a very bright
guy. I don't always agree wj-th him. He's smart, and he
put me on his email- l-ist, but for some reason I didn't
realize I should have real-ized that it's been two
years and there would be another rate case.
Although there have been some years that
there were not rate cases early on, I thlnk back in 2008,
2009, 2010. I think at least for two years there wasn't
a rate case. I think when I read the article f was a
little bit surprised to see that whil-e rates are going to
go up overall- l-ess than one percent, and that's just for
the first year, the second year they're not to go up
accordi-ng to the rate case, that the energy cost
adjustment mechanism that kicks in every April 1st is the
method whereby will rates will go up.
I woufd fike to express my opinion, and
this is just my opinion, as a liberal- arts person, f'm
not a scientist, I don't have degrees in technology, I
pretty much have to accept what other people tel-I me
about these subjects because I donrt know, but in my
opini-on, energy in this country shoul-d be cheap and
abundant. I think that thatrs one of the things that has
made this country great and an advantage that we have
over other part-s of the worId, and why shouldn't it be
cheap and abundant because of the natural resources that
BAXTER
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this great land is blessed to have, and by that, f'm
talking about hydrocarbons, hydraulic fracturing, and
even some day we might be wllllng to import oil through
the Keystone pipeline, although I kind of doubt it, from
Canada which woul-d accelerate energy independence for
North America.
Unfortunately, the concept of green energy
or renewable energy is wonderful. I support that concept
wholeheartedly. However, when I think of wind turbines,
it's been about 30 years and those things are no closer
to making economic sense than they were many years ago;
sofar panels much the same. The mechanical costs
required to produce a minuscule amount of electrj-city are
so great to render both of them economically unfeasible,'
however, we continue to subsidize what I consider to be
dishonest renewables at the national, state, and l-ocal-
levels, and that also includes our efectri-city biI1s, and
it's sad because there must be a renewable in our future,
and I'm fortunate to have opportunities to tafk to people
that are very bright and they tell- me about some of these
new technologies and there's absolutely a renewable
energy in our future, but wind and solar as presently
constituted are not it, and i thank the Commissioners and
IPUC Staff for the scrutiny that ftve seen, especially
when it comes to Idaho Power, and I think that you are
BAXTER
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taking an enlightened approach on the topic, because it
is my opinion, and not so much my opinion, the opinion of
people that know a l-ot more than me, that that industrial
park that we see up here in the skyline that comes ever
closer to my quality of life will someday be a boneyard
and it may be as soon as 10 years.
f donrt know enough about science to point
and say this will work for sure, but ltve been tol-d about
a technology cal1ed nanoantenna which somehow converts
electricity from radio waves and those radio waves exist
at nlght and so that would eflminate the issue with
j-ntermittency, because as we all- know, when the wind
doesn't bl-ow nor the sun shine no juice and, therefore,
those two energy sources must be backed up 100 percent by
natural gas generation, because natural gas can be
switched on and off whil-e coaf can't, and there is an
expensive way to make coal clean burning.
In fact, I've got a cousin who's a BYU
professor that's got funding now and he's got five people
on his staff and he's trying to get a patent on this
process, but just l-ike nuclear energy, I klnd of doubt
that the politica] will exists to take advantage of his
process for so-cal-led cl-ean coal-, because when it comes
right down to it, therers not a single energy source out
there that is totally clean and certainly not those wind
BAXTER
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turbines that require up to 4,000 pounds
elements primarily refined in China where
horribl-e ecological problem based on the
I 've been abl-e to uncover.
f'm out of time, arenrt I?
that is?
of rare earth
they create a
informatlon that
Is that what
MR. PRfCE: Itfs somebody's cell phone.
THE WITNESS: Oh, thatfs somebody else?
Anyway, f'm talking too long anyway, but I would just
l-ike to thank the Commissioners. f wiII write something
about the ECAM situation where the public, I think, is
not getting the ful-l- picture that hey, we are stil-I
getting a rate hike, but j-t's going to be through the
April 1st energy cost adjustment mechanism, and one thing
I'd like to ask is, you know, a fot of us just rea11y try
our best and if and when we write about things like ECAM,
if we could cal-l it the same thing every tlme, that
would I realize that really smart people write those
press rel-eases he's smiling because he's a lawyer and
he knows what Ifm talking about, but when you cal-I things
that are baslcally the same different things, I mean, it
reaI1y confuses the public and we're really easily
confused.
Thank you very much for comi-ng to Rigby
COMMISSIONER REDFORD: Thank you, Mr.
BAXTER
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BAXTER
Publ ic
Baxter. Are there any questions from Mr. Solander?
MR. SOLANDER: No questions.
MR. PRICE: No questions.
COMMISSIONER REDFORD: Commissioner?
COMMISSIONER KJELLANDER: Just one. ff we
could just echo one poi-nt and I guess it's more a
statement that Mr. Baxter brought up and thatrs even the
fact that the same util-lties we regulate, we call- it a
PCA, we call- it an ECAM, if we could just somehow find a
way to consolidate with a single acronym, it sure would
make life a lot easier for everybody. I think he makes a
very val1d point there and hopefully, we can make some
progress there. It goes along the same lines with
whatever my argument was in the l-ast decision meeting
about RSS.
MR. PRICE: Yes.
COMMISSIONER REDFORD: We get enough
acronyms to choke a horse.
THE WITNESS: Yeah, you know, and Irm
basically a dumb guy, so don't make it any harder on me
than you need to.
COMMISSIONER KJELLANDER: I'm with you on
that.
COMMISSIONER REDFORD: Thank you.
(The witness left the stand. )
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11 ZIEL
PubIic
COMMISSIONER REDFORD: I have Mr. Robert
ZieL.
MR. ZIEL: Right. You said my name
correctly. Thank you, Commissioner.
ROBERT ZTEL,
appearing as a public witness, having been first duly
sworn, testified as foll-ows:
EXAMINATTON
BY MR. PR]CE:
O Please go ahead and state your name and
your address for the record.
A It's Robert E. Ziel, spelled Z-t-e-L, 152
Dove, like the bird, D-o-v-e, Avenue, Rigby, fD,
83442-7246.
0 And are you a Rocky Mountain Power
customer?
A f certainly am.
O A1I right, please proceed.
A Okay, first of all, Honorable
Commissioners and you counse1 and stenographer and Gene
Fadness, thank you for traveling the 300 miIes, we
appreciate that, and over the years I've been a critic of
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ZIEL
Public
Rocky Mountain Power, but f 've al-so praised them, so
counselor, relax, I'm not going to be adversarj-al-
tonight. I wrote a commentary in the Post Reqister about
eight months ago praisj-ng the linemen for getting power
restoled after an intense storm we had, but if T may with
the Commissioners' permi-ssion, I have a few
non-adversarial questions for counsel; is that okay?
COMMISSIONER REDFORD: Wel-1, actually, it
isn't the purpose of this, but go ahead.
COMMISSIONER KJBLLANDER: Mr. ZLel, T have
an idea, what I woul-d do is pose the questions, get them
in the record, and then when we take a break, I would be
willing to bet that Mr. Sol-ander would be more than happy
to answer them.
THE WITNESS: Okay, that's fair enough.
Mr. Baxter made a number of good poi-nts about renewabl-e
energy and f won't qet very political as a former radio
and TV reporter, but we have problems on the federal
level, I do fee1, such as the Keystone pipeline and other
issues, but that may not be totally relevant to this, but
what is relevant, some questi-ons I have, which certainly
you can think about, No. 1 is, and if I'm wrong you can
correct me, but coal is the primary generation process,
and their, I think, maj-n generation plants in Huntington,
Utah, that area, are right by the coal- mine and you're
I2
able to get the coal right in there to burn
the attitude of the current administration
cIearly, theyrre anti-coal.
ftrs not an opi-nion, it is a
it, but with
in Washington,
fact, we know
that, so my question to you is, and think about thls,
what's the future for Rocky Mountain Power in terms of if
you have to convert; you have to go more natural gasi
you've got to try hydro; maybe in the distant future
possibly nuclear. That's one of the questions f have,
and al-so, beyond 20t5, 2076, what impact do you think
this wil-l have on the residentla] and business rates.
That's my essential thing. See, I was
friendly tonlght, but anyway, as a person who is on a
fixed income I mean, fly wife and I are okay
financially, but we're still fixed income. You know,
sometimes between the City of Rigby, which is known for
high utility rates, and Rocky Mountain Power, which I
guess they're trying to keep their rates down, you know,
it's not easy to live when you're retired, but that
essentiatly is my testimony, and that's what I have to
offer, gentlemen.
COMMISSIONER REDFORD: Thank you. Just a
second, sir.
THE WITNESS:
COMMISSIONER
Oh sure
REDFORD:Do you have any
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ZIEL
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!4 ZlEL
Public
questions, Mr. Solander?
MR. SOLANDER: I have no questions.
COMMfSSIONER REDFORD: Mr. Price?
MR. PRICE: I don't have any questions,
but I would just point you, you talked about what is the
resource balance that the Company is going to develop
THE WITNESS : Exactly, y€S, counsel-or .
MR. PRICE: There's a current proceeding
going on at the Commission for the Companyrs IRP, so
there's an open docket regarding
MR. SOLANDER: Integrated resource pIan.
MR. PRICE: I'm sorry, here I go using
another acronym, integrated resource p1an.
THE WITNESS: f won't hold it against
you.
MR. PRICE: And we can tal-k more about
that after the hearing.
THE WITNESS: I woul-d appreciate that, you
know, because they're in a spot, Rocky Mountain, and your
other utilities. You know, as coal winds down, which I
guess is inevitable, you know, whatrs the replacement.
That essentially is my message tonight.
COMMISSIONER REDFORD: Thank you.
THE WITNESS: Thank you, gentlemen.
MR. SOLANDER: Can f note for the record
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that the integrated resource plan would be available on
Rocky Mountain Power's website?
THE WITNESS: Oh, absolutely.
MR. FADNESS: And it's on ours as we1l.
THE WITNESS: IRC
MR. SOLANDER: IRP.
THE WITNESS: Oh, IRP. I thought I
brought a pen.
(The witness left the stand. )
COMMISSIONER REDEORD: Are there any other
persons in attendance that would Iike to testify? I
think sufficient time has elapsed that we can presume
do you gentlemen have any statement? WeIl, having said
that and inasmuch as the time has passed and it's 20
minutes after the hour, we'11 stand adjourned. Thank
you.
(The Hearing adjourned at 1:20 p.m. )
COLLOQUY
AUTHENTICATION
This is to certify that the foregoing
proceedlngs held in the matter of the application of
Pacificorp dba Rocky Mountain Power to initiate
discussions with interested partj-es on alternative rate
plan proposals, commencing at 7:00 p.fl, on Tuesday,
August 21, 2013, dt the Rigby City Hall-, 158 West
Fremont, Rigby, Idaho, is a true and correct transcript
of sald proceedlngs and the original thereof for the file
of the Commission.
CONSTANCE S. BUCY
Certified Shorthand Repor
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T6 AUTHENTICAT]ON