20120103Volume II.pdf

BEFORE THE IDAHO PUBLIC UTILITIES
.
IN THE MATTER OF THE APPLICATION
OF PACIFICORP DBA ROCKY MOUNTAIN
POWER FOR APPROVAL OF CHANGES TO
ITS ELECTRIC SERVICE SCHEDULES
CASE
PAC-E-11-12
PUBLIC HEARING
HEARING BEFORE
COMMISSIONER PAUL KJELLANDER (Presiding)
COMMISSIONER MACK A. REDFORD
.
PLACE:Fremont County Annex Room
125 North Bridge Street
Saint Anthony, Idaho
DATE:December 8, 2011
VOLUME II - Pages 47 - 180
¡.-I1£ ;t--1
HEDRICK
POST OFFICE BOX 578
BOISE, IDAHO 83701
208-336-9208.
COURT REPORTING
cfeM.v tk ie ~.rÅU 19
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19
20
21
22
23
24.25
1 APPEARANCES
2 For the Staff:NEIL PRICE, Esq.
Deputy Attorney General
472 West Washington
Boise, Idaho 83702
3
4
5 For PacifiCorp
dba Rocky Mountain Power
(RMP) :
YVONNE R. HOGLE, Esq.
Senior Counsel
Rocky Mountain Power
201 South Main Street, Suite 2300
Salt Lake City, Utah 84111
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
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APPEARANCES
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INDEX
.1 Wade Christensen Mr.Price 143
(Public)Statement 143
2
Frank Stees Mr.Price 148
3 ( Public)Statement 148
4 Irven Hill Mr.Price 151
( Public)Statement 151
5
JoAn Wood Sworn 154
6 (Public)Statement 154
7 Kaylen Miskin Sworn 157
( Public)Mr.Price 158
8 Statement 158
9 Jim Higgins Sworn 161
( Public)Statement 161
10
Aronlee Gould Mr.Price 163
11 ( Public)Statement 163
12 Jeanette Brook Sworn 166.(Public)Statement 166
13
Reed Carlile Mr.Price 168
14 (Public)Statement 168
15 Larry Hughes Sworn 170
(Public)Mr.Price 171
16 Statement 171
17 Anthony Coon Sworn 172
( Public)Mr.Price 173
18 Statement 173
19 Teri Knox Sworn 174
(Public)Statement 174
20
Kathy Reynolds Sworn 176
21 (Public)Statement 176
22
23
24.25
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INDEX
1
2
NUMBER
3
701
4
702
5
703
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
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EXHIBITS
PAGE
Newspaper Articles, 2 pgs Marked 52
11/09/11 Rocky Mountain Power bill Marked 52
7th District Court ASsistance Office Marked 157
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EXHIBITS
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1 SAINT ANTHONY, IDAHO, THURSDAY, DECEMBER 8, 2011, 7:00 P.M.
2
3
4 COMMISSIONER KJELLANDER: Good evening, ladies
5 and gentlemen. Can you hear me okay? Do I need to be miked?
6 VOICES: Yeah. Yeah.
7 COMMISSIONER KJELLANDER: Darn it. Okay.
8 Can you hear me?
9 VOICES: Yeah.
10 COMMISSIONER KJELLANDER: Okay, good. Thank you.
11 Since it appears that we're going to need
12 microphones, we don't have a microphone stand right here but we
13 do have a wireless mike, and our Staff member from the PUC,
14 Gene Fadness, will probably be bringing that wireless
15 microphone near to you when you come up to give your testimony
16 so others in the room can hear you and you don't have to shout.
17 I don't think you have to actually eat the microphone, to be
18 that close to it; you should be able to hold it about four to
19 fi ve inches away so that you can be heard.
20 I apologize for not having a microphone. They
21 have a system in the room here, and we just collectively
22 weren't brilliant enough to figure out how to make it work. So
23 we have one with us and that's what we're going to be using.24 this evening.
25 My name is Paul Kj ellander. I'm the Chairman of
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1 the Public Utili ties Commission, and I'm the Chair of this
2 specific case. To my right is Commissioner Mack Redford. Also
3 on the Commission is Commissioner Marsha Smith. The three of
4 us will ultimately be the adj udicators of fact and issue the
5 ultimate Decision in this case.
6 The case that we're here for this evening in the
7 context of a public hearing is Case No. PAC-E-11-12, also known
8 as the Application of PacifiCorp/Rocky Mountain Power regarding
9 a proposed rate case settlement.
10 As we begin this evening, we first need to take
11 the formal appearances of the party to formally recognize them
12 as part of the official record. So why don't we begin with the
13 assistant attorney general, Mr. Neil Price, if you could just
14 tell us who you are and get yourself officially into the
15 record.
16 MR. PRICE: My name is Neil Price. I'm an
17 attorney for the Commission Staff.
18 COMMISSIONER KJELLANDER: Also with us is legal
19 Counsel for Rocky Mountain Power.
20 MS. HOGLE: Hi. My name is Yvonne Hogle, and I'm
21 Counsel for Rocky Mountain Power. With me is also Ted Weston,
22 who is the regulatory manager for the state of Idaho for Rocky
23 Mountain Power.
24 COMMISSIONER KJELLANDER: And there are other
25 parties to the case that are here. I believe we have a
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1 representative from Monsanto, Mr. Jim Smith.
2 MR. JIM SMITH: Yep.
3 COMMISSIONER KJELLANDER: And are there any other
4 official parties to the case that are here for purposes of
5 recogni tion? I don't believe there are.
6 Monsanto does not have legal Counsel here for
7 cross-examination when we get into the official public hearing
8 process, but we did want to recognize that they are here and an
9 official party to the case.
10 MR. GENE FADNESS: Mr. Chairman.
11 COMMISSIONER KJELLANDER: Yes.
12 MR. GENE FADNESS: Sorry to interrupt. We're
13 going to have a problem with seating tonight and I see some
14 chairs that are empty that have coats on them; if you wouldn't
15 mind moving those. And if there are empty chairs, if you could
16 scoot towards the center, and that way people can find chairs.
17 There's also four chairs right here if you'd like to sit right
18 in the front row.
19 Sorry to interrupt.
20 COMMISSIONER KJELLANDER: That's fine.
As we proceed this evening, the format again,
22 the purpose is to obtain your public testimony so that we can
23 officially develop the record regarding public testimony for.24 the case that i s in front of us today.
25 How the process will work is we have a sign-up
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.1 sheet and we'll go down the sign-up sheet one at a time. We'll
2 call you to the stand and legal Counsel for Staff, Mr. Price,
3 will get you officially on the record with a couple of
4 questions; first, however, you'll be sworn in by Commissioner
5 Mack Redford. And then after you provide your testimony, we'll
6 have an opportunity for it's referred to as cross-examination,
7 but that sounds a little colder and harsher than what it is.
8 There might be just a few follow-up questions that perhaps the
9 Commissioners or some of the official parties to the case might
10 have.
11 What I'd like to do is put you at ease with
.12 regard to public testimony. Please don't worry about being
13 intimidated. We do have a court reporter here to take down
14 your comments verbatim, but that's only to establish the
15 official record.
16 The Decisions that the Commission issues can be
17 appealed directly to the Supreme Court, and because we act as a
18 quasi -j udicial body, we're required through this process to
19 develop an official public record. So that's the purpose of
20 having the official record put together through a stenographer
21 in the context of this case. So, again, I apologize for the
22 formali ty that's required for the case, but I would not like to
23 see you intimidated through this process..24 And even though you may not have signed up on
25 this sheet, before we leave here this evening we'll make sure
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1 that we give you ample opportunity to come up and provide your
2 comments for the official record.
3 As additional notice -- and I hope to reference
4 this again before we complete the proceedings tonight -- there
5 will be a telephonic hearing on Monday, December 19th. So if
6 there i s something that you think that the Commission needs to
7 hear on the official record between now and the end of the case
8 on December 19th, there will be a telephone hearing and we can
9 get you the details on how to participate in that.
10 And we i II also continue to accept written
11 testimony until the official record closes, which will likely
12 be at the end of the day on December 19th.
13 So, with that, why don't we begin with the
14 proceedings this evening, and the first individual we'd like to
15 call to the witness stand is Mr. Bob Ziel
16
17 ROBERT ZIEL,
18 appearing as a public witness, being first duly sworn, was
19 examined and testified as follows:
20
21 EXAINATION
22
23 BY MR. PRICE:
24 Q.Can you please state your name?
25 A.Robert D. Ziel, last letter of the alphabet,
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1 Z-I-E-L, 152 Dove Avenue, Rigby, Idaho, 83442.
2 Q.And are you a Rocky Mountain Power customer?
3 A.Yes, for 35 years.
4 THE WITNESS: If I may approach the table there,
5 I have a transcript which I'd like to give to the Commission
6 and also to Rocky Mountain Power representatives. May I do so?
7 COMMISSIONER KJELLANDER: Certainly.
8 THE WITNESS: Okay. I have two exhibits here
9 also.
10 COMMISSIONER KJELLANDER: Thank you.
11 THE WITNESS: There you go, just enough.
12 (Public Exhibit Nos. 701 and 702 were
13 marked for identification.)
14 A VOICE: Would you give him the microphone,
15 please?
16 MR. GENE FADNESS: Yes, if I can find it.
17 A VOICE: Thank you.
18 THE WITNESS: Thank you, Gene.
Can I be heard okay?
COMMISSIONER KJELLANDER: Yeah.
THE WITNESS: Okay. I'll just have what I call
22 the KISS theory, not affection from one person to another, but
23 Keep It Short and Simple, about three minutes. I'll try to
24.25
limit my testimony.
I'd like to say good evening to Idaho Power
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i Public Utilities Commissioners (sic) , representatives from
2 Rocky Mountain Power, and the general public. Now, last night
3 I attended the IPUC hearing in Downey. Two items people there
4 testified really made strong impressions on me and I want to
5 share them with local residents here, and also reiterate those
6 two points with the Commission this evening.
7 First, as you know from being there yesterday,
8 numerous residents were mostly senior citizens. They
9 complained about an apparent bad investment made by the Utility
10 for a wind farm in Wyoming. Several Rocky Mountain Power
11 consumers made it clear that we, as customers, should not have
12 to pay for the Utility's apparent bad investment wi th expensive
13 wind power. It i S a very good point, and I urge Commissioners
14 to take that factor into account when considering the latest
15 rate hike request.
16 Second, and I think it i S very obvious, that we're
17 in the midst of a nasty and intense double-barreled recession
18 which shows little sign of receding. Several people from
19 Downey and Malad region stated that increased power bills hurt
20 their budgets. I can tell you from personal experience that
21 it's difficult for my wife and me -- we i re middle income
22 people, we're both retired -- to balance our budget. We're
23 able to do so thanks to our fiscal discipline, but we can only
24 accomplish that by making some personal sacrifices. Now,
25 obviously, many other Rocky Mountain Power customers are in the
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1 same or similar boat as my wife and I are these days. I
2 especially feel empathy for younger couples who have
3 considerable additional expenses raising children.
4 Now, I am an advocate of successful business.
5 I i m a believer in capitalism and I'm not offended when Rocky
6 Mountain Power makes a reasonable profit. Under normal
7 economic condition that's fine, but I have to ask: Can not
8 Rocky Mountain Power, as a corporation, restrain itself through
9 austeri ty? Does the Utility have to come before the Commission
10 every few months, asking you for a rate hike after rate hike?
11 According to a recent news release from IPUC,
12 that will likely change with the proposed two-year settlement;
13 however, Rocky Mountain Power customers in Idaho will still
14 experience significant rate increases. Now, it's my
15 understanding that IPUC has granted a 9. 98-percent return on
16 equi ty for Rocky Mountain Power. A nearly ten-percent return
17 is certainly not bad for a business, especially in these
18 adverse economic times. Many of us would like to see the
19 Utili ty tighten up its financial belt. If we, as consumers,
20 can do it, why not Rocky Mountain Power? I believe that my
21 atti tude reflects the general opinion of the Utility's
22 customers across Eastern Idaho.
23 Now, recently, I wrote letters to the editors of
24 the Idaho Falls-based Post Register and Rigby-based Jefferson
25 Star newspapers, which were published in early November. For
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1 the sake of time, I'll just read part of my letter to the Post
2 Register, similar to the one that I wrote to the Jefferson
3 Star. You'll notice I have Exhibit A. And just to read a
4 li ttle bit of the Post Register letter:
5 The Idaho Public Utility Commission recently
6 conducted a workshop in Rexburg to explain a proposed rate hike
7 settlement with Rocky Mountain Power. RMP has been asking the
8 IPUC for rate increases annually; plus, they have been
9 pressuring for interim rate hikes this year.
10 I invited some local legislators to attend the
11 workshop, and to her credit, District 35 State Representative
12 JoAn Wood came to the meeting. Representati ve Wood reminded
13 IPUC and RMP representatives that we're in the midst of a bad
14 recession, where families, businesses, and agriculture are
15 suffering in these tough economic times. Maj or utili ties
16 should be sharing the burden of financial hardships. Granted,
17 Rocky Mountain Power may -- emphasize "may" -- possibly have
18 some increased expenses. To be fair and impartial, Idaho
19 Public Utilities Commissioners are mandated by law to factor
20 that into their deliberations when considering rate hikes.
21 And then I just went on to say that -- urge
22 people to come to the meeting tonight.
23 Now, I also have Exhibit B, my latest bill from
24 Rocky Mountain Power. If you will look at the right side for
25 the sake of the audience, you will see the cost per day for my
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1 indi vidual -- I'm probably, my wife and I, typical consumers.
2 I circled last November; that is just a month ago. It was 3.29
3 per day. A year ago, November 2010, was 2.75. That's 50 cents
4 a day more and I'm using less power. You notice we use 935
5 kilowatt hours. That's a little high for a home, so I've been
6 chastising my wife and setting an example. We dropped to 862
7 kilowatt hours this past month. Fifty cents a day more even
8 with less usage? That's 15 a month. And you figure over a
9 year, that's quite a bit. And so we're doing our part, at
10 least we're trying to conserve more.
11 And I'm on time of use also, which consistently
12 Rocky Mountain Power -- and I brought this up last year -- has
13 a higher rate for time of use. We're the good guys and gals.
14 We're the ones that consume from the off-peak load at nights,
15 and yet they're penalizing us by charging us more -- that is,
16 wanting to charge us more -- by requesting a higher rate for
17 time of use. I don't know why, but maybe an RMP representative
18 can explain that.
19 And that's all I have for the Commission and the
20 legal Counsel, if -- from Rocky Mountain Power. If you have
21 any questions, I'll be glad to answer them for you.
22 COMMISSIONER KJELLANDER: Thank you, Mr. Ziel.
23 Let's see if there are some questions.24 Mr. Price?
25 MR. PRICE: I don't have any questions.
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1 CROSS-EXAMINATION
2
3 BY MS. HOGLE:
4 Q.I do have some questions.
5 A.Yes, ma' am.
6 Q.I don't know if you want to take a seat. I'm
7 going to cover four items
8 A.Uh-huh.
9 Q.-- and so it's going to take a little while. I
10 don't know if you would like to have a seat, have somebody
11 bring a seat to you, or if you're okay.
12 A.Okay. Go ahead.
13 A VOICE: You need a microphone.
14 BY MS. HOGLE: Okay, I -- Mr. Ziel, I'd like toQ.
15 ask you first about
A.
Q.
A.
Q.
A.
Q.
case?
A.
Q.
No, I haven't.
Okay. Did you know, Mr. Ziel, that if the
Commission approved the Stipulation before them, that time of
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1 day winter rates would increase from 4.2 cents to 4.5 cents,
2 and that residential Schedule 1 rates would increase from 7.3
3 cents to 7.8 cents? Were you aware of that?
4 A.No, but I see it's a 15-percent increase versus,
5 what, nine- or ten-percent request, so there's that extra
6 fi ve-percent gap. That's what I'm questioning.
7 Q. Okay, I'm glad that you mentioned the 15-percent
8 increase. If you had read the Settlement Stipulation,
9 Mr. Ziel, you would know that the parties actually settled for
10 seven percent -- 7.8 percent, I believe, increase?
11 A.That's more in the ballpark.
12 Q.Yes, not a 15-percent increase.
13 A.But it did not say that originally.
14 Q.Well, I believe that the Settlement Stipulation
15 before the Commission, if approved
16 A.Uh-huh.
17 Q.the very most that ratepayers would be charged
18 would be, like I said, 7. 8-percent average increase, not the 15
19 percent.
20 A.Okay. I'm glad to hear that.
21 But here's another question, Counselor, if I may
22 ask you: Why even have an increase when we're evening out the
23 peak loading at night? Why not leave that -- the rate the way
24 it is for time of day weekends and from now 10: 00 p.m. to
6: 00 a. m. ? Why raise it if we i re going to even out your peak
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1 load?
2 Q.Mr. Ziel, with this process, I'm the one who gets
3 to ask questions.
4 A.Okay. Fire away.
5 Q.Okay. That's my first question, my first topic.
6 My second topic, I want to take you back to what
7 you said about costs and how -- you know, that we should -- the
8 Company should cut costs. My question to you is have you read
9 Mr. Walj e' s testimony in this case?
10 A.No, but perhaps you can inform me just briefly,
11 summary.
12 Q. Okay. Well, I will tell you -- or, ask you that
13 if you had read -- or, a question, as stated in his testimony,
14 did you know that since 2006, Rocky Mountain Power has cut
15 operation and maintenance costs by 30 percent?
16 A.How's that possible with construction of new
17 lines?
18 Oh, I'm sorry, I shouldn't ask you. I'm used to
19 being a reporter.
A VOICE: She asked you, Bob. You can answer.
Q.BY MS. HOGLE: That's absolutely okay. I'm just
22 trying to clarify some of the misinformation that is out there,
23 and so through this process I'm hoping that that can be -- most
24.25
of your issues can be clarified, so thank you. And, actually,
I should correct myself: It is actually both capital and O&M
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1 costs have been cut by 30 percent.
2 I'd like to ask you on another topic that you
3 mentioned in your presentation, and that is the rate of return.
4 You mentioned that the Commission has granted Rocky Mountain
5 Power a 9.98 percent rate of --
6 A.That is correct.
7 Q.-- equity or rate of return?
8 A.Right.
9 Q.Did you know that what the Commission did is
10 allow for the opportunity for Rocky Mountain Power to earn a
11 9.98 percent?
12 A.Uh-uh.
13 Q.9.9 percent.
14 A.Okay.
15 Q.Excuse me. So would it surprise you to know that
16 Rocky Mountain Power is actually not earning its authorized
17 rate of return?
18 A.It's not? Why is that? Is that management or --
19 I don't know.
But, also, didn't you request a 10.5 percent? I
21 believe that was the case, ma'am, but go ahead.
22
23
24.25
Q.Okay, okay. So let me go to the last question --
A.Uh-huh.
Q.-- or line of questions that your presentation
brought up:
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1 You also mention at the beginning of your
2 presentation about an apparent bad investment made by the
3 utili ty for a wind farm in Wyoming?
4 A.Correct.
5 Q.Okay. As it so happened, the -- did you know
6 that the Idaho Public Utilities Staff issued a Data Request to
7 Rocky Mountain Power, asking the question about what the costs
8 were of Rocky Mountain Power's wind investment?
9 A.I was aware of that, but I did not know, you
10 know, the exact. I didn i t read the thing through, but I heard
11 about that.
12 Q.Okay.
13 MS. HOGLE: Commissioner
14 COMMISSIONER KJELLANDER: Ms. Hogle, I apologize
15 for interrupting you and I see where you're going, but I'd like
16 to remind you that this is a public hearing. We don't expect
17 the witnesses that show up here to be expert witnesses, nor do
18 we expect them to have read all the gr~nular details. And when
19 you start to ask about Data Requests of public witnesses, I
20 just want to caution you of one is that the intent tonight is a
21 public hearing, and what it sounds like -- and I'm not trying
22 to chastise you it sounds like what you're trying to do is
23 dispel some of the things that you're hearing, and I understand
24 that through your questioning. But I have to remind you that
25 tonight it's a public hearing, it i S not a technical hearing,
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1 and I would be shocked if individuals here had pored through
2 the testimony at that layer of granularity, had access to Data
3 Requests.
4 (Applause. )
5 COMMISSIONER KJELLANDER: Applause is extremely
6 unnecessary: We've got to get through this tonight.
7 But I just would like to remind you that there's
8 a -- there may be other opportunities for the Utility to
9 present its case that might be a better forum for that, and
10 that i s all I wanted to suggest.
11 MS. HOGLE: Thank you, Commissioner.
12 Q.BY MS. HOGLE: I just have then one last
13 question.
14 A.Sure. Go ahead.
15 Q.Okay. And it pertains to that statement about
16 the apparent bad investment by the Utility.
17 A.Uh-huh.
18 A VOICE: Can you please speak up? I'm sorry, we
19 still can't hear.
MS. HOGLE: Sure.
Q.BY MS. HOGLE: Would it surprise you, Mr. Ziel,
22 that when that question came up before the Wyoming Commission
23 in its 2009 case --
24.25
A.Uh-huh.
Q.-- the Commission stated, and I quote: The
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1 Commission finds no basis for condemning the Company's wind
2 resource acquisitions, which account for nearly 30 percent
3 reduction in the Company's revenue requirement. End quote.
4 A.Okay. I would comment, if I may, to the
5 Commission that you need a better public relations, because in
6 Malad last -- I mean in Downey last night, there is this
7 perception that wind is inefficient, it's not bad, and I would
8 respectfully suggest that your public affairs people out of
9 Salt Lake issue some news releases explaining, as you claim,
10 that it's efficient. I would suggest that. Because there is a
11 perception out there, ma' am, that wind is not.
12 And the other thing is it's going to California.
13 Whether it's true or not, that is the perception.
14 So I would respectfully suggest Rocky Mountain
15 Power do a better job with their public relations and overcome
16 the myth, as you perceive it.
17 Q.Thank you, Mr. Ziel.
18 A.Thank you.
19 MS. HOGLE: No further questions.
20 COMMISSIONER KJELLANDER: Ms. Hogle, again, I'm
21 sorry.
22 MS. HOGLE: No, I understand.
23 COMMISSIONER KJELLANDER: Thank you.
24 Thank you, Mr. Ziel.
25 THE WITNESS: Thank you.
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1 (The witness left the stand.)
2
3 BRUCE BAXTER,
4 appearing as a public witness, being first duly sworn, was
5 examined and testified as follows:
6
7 EXAMINATION
8
9 BY MR. PRICE:
10 Q.Good evening, sir. Could you please state your
11 name and your address for the record?
12 A. Bruce Robert Baxter. My address is 7 North 3192
13 East, Idaho Falls, 83401. In addition, I'll be talking a
14 little bit about conditions in Nevada where I have another
15 home, and my address there is P.o. Box 1485, Logandale, Nevada,
16 89021.
17 Q.And are you a Rocky Mountain Power customer?
18 A.I am, but not in Nevada, obviously.
19 A VOICE: Can you speak up a little, Bruce?
THE WITNESS: I will speak up a little.
Q.BY MR. PRICE: Go ahead.
THE WITNESS: To begin, I would like to thank the
23 Commissioners. I attended the meeting last night in Downey,
24.25
and I thought it was a terrific experience. Last year, it was
an uncomfortable experience, I felt that the atmosphere was
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.1 somewhat ominous. And I was especially impressed when the
2 Chairman offered to talk to anybody on a one-to-one basis; I
3 just think that's incredible. And I guess what I want to
4 stress is I think these are really two fine gentlemen working
5 in a very difficult situation. And it is truly a difficult
6 situation in that, I'll have to admit, I think that the playing
7 field is not level when it comes to the residential consumer,
8 but they are bound by the laws of the State of Idaho, and I'll
9 be talking about that in a minute.
10 The current situation as I see it is that in --
lIon December the 28th, 2010, less than a year ago, the average
12 rate hike that we all received was -- I say "we all," but it.13 was an average; some got a little bit higher, some got less,
14 actually. Irrigators got -- most of the categories were less
15 than three percent -- was 6. 78 percent. Now, that was less
16 than 12 months ago. The current Negotiated Settlement being
17 considered averages just a little under eight percent.
18 On the 1st of April of this year, a 7. 5-percent
19 ECAM went into effect. That was a rate hike. And "ECAM" is an
20 "energy cost adjustment mechanism," or referred to in the
21 advertising of Rocky Mountain Power as a true-up to make sure
22 that they were compensated for their actual energy costs. 1.6
23 percent of that was deferred to another year, to another.24 12-month period. I'm not sure exactly when we enter that
25 12-month period, but it's the subsequent 12-month period.
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1 So based on my calculations as a liberal arts guy
2 and not a mathematician, that totals over 22 percent in 12
3 months. And if you're on time of day like I am -- and most of
4 us are on time of day -- that's about 23 percent. So that's
5 the situation that I see, and that's all in roughly a 12-month
6 period.
7 The Negotiated Settlement, which I don i t --
8 which, you know, probably 90 percent of us or more weren't a
9 party to did not include -- and that's being considered
10 tonight, by the way; that's not a done deal -- it did not
11 include the annual ECAMs -- energy cost adjustments -- that
12 will go into effect every April the 1st, doesn't include that.
13 And these other numbers that I'm talking about that are
14 doesn't include the fact that this current Negotiated
15 Settlement that has not yet been approved also takes care of
16 the second year. You're guaranteed a 7. 25-percent increase.
17 And I don't know about you, but I have no idea
18 what economic conditions are going to be like going out that
19 far. I just don't have a crystal ball, I'm not clairvoyant.
20 There's no reason, in my opinion -- this is strictly my
21 opinion to believe that we won't be receiving double-digit
22 increases of about 20 percent until the day we die.
23 The proposed settlement being considered tonight
24 was negotiated in a situation that I didn't -- I would say
25 behind closed doors. Obviously if you were there, it wasn't
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1 behind closed doors: You knew all about it. I knew nothing
2 about it. I consider that to be a secret negotiation.
3 i will also tell everybody here that I'm
4 convinced that it was legal. I say "legal": Lawful. I guess
5 it would be up to a judge to determine if something is legal.
6 It was completely lawful, but there was not -- no
7 residential -- residential consumers are not represented as a
8 class, simply because we did not intervene.
9 And to intervene, I would say that you're a
10 special interest group that obviously can afford to hire your
11 own attorney. And, you know, folks, we're just residential
12 consumers. We're not organized like that. We need a seat at
13 the table, something needs to be done, and I'm going to talk a
14 little bit later about what I think ought to happen as far as
15 legislation to correct what I think is a very unlevel and
16 unfair playing field to the residential consumer.
17 And on that topic of the playing field being
18 level, there are a few of us here that have actively
19 participated in the process. I'll admit that I didn't get
20 involved until my friend Bob Ziel warned me or notified me of
21 what was going to happen. I had no idea 18 months ago that a
22 rate hike was even being considered or that I should even go to
23 a workshop, but my attitude was always, hey, I'll be just fine.
24 Nothing too crazy is going to happen. You know, things are
25 going to be relatively equitable. And if I go and attend and
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1 get involved in this, you know, it's not really going to make
2 much difference. Besides, i like to fish and I like to play
3 the stock market and stuff like that that old people like to
4 do. I don't feel that way anymore.
5 You know, I went to that first workshop, and I
6 was just amazed at what was going on. And the reason for
7 that -- and I'm talking about the rate hike that went into
8 effect the 28th of December. What really amazed me was that it
9 was a sales presentation, in my opinion. It was an opportunity
10 for Rocky Mountain Power's case to be presented to us. It was
11 a sales job.
12 And, frankly, I like a lot of the people at Idaho
13 Public Utilities Commission. I'm not talking about the
14 Commissioners -- I like them -- I'm talking about their Staff.
15 I like their Staff. But, you know, there was an attitude
16 there. And I obj ected to the fact that we were listening to
17 the other side's position, their negotiating position, and the
18 comment that I made at the time is, "When are we going to have
19 an opportunity to address our side, the counter to their
20 proposal?"
21 And I think at the time I might have even said
22 that you don't in negotiations -- and I've been involved in
23 high-dollar negotiations because of my military career and.24 later as a businessman where my own money was involved, and
25 later as a member of various board of directors -- in those
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1 si tuations, you don't consider the other person's negotiating
2 posi tion. I mean, if they want to give it to you, fine. My
3 attitude, generally, was they give me something, I just tear
4 that thing up and throw it across the table. That's just my
5 atti tude. I want fairness, I want everybody to be treated the
6 same, and if I don't like what the other party is trying to
7 propose, I don't hire them.
8 Well, folks, we don't -- excuse me, I'm
9 addressing the Commissioners -- we obviously don't have that
10 opportunity here, because we are a regulated utility. And in
11 my mind, I've come to the conclusion that a regulated utility
12 is a government-sponsored monopoly: We've got the government
13 on one hand and we've got big business on the other. And I'd
14 like to think that we're a customer, I really would. And if
15 I'm not treated like a customer, I want to be treated like an
16 equal. If I can't be treated like an equal, I don't want to be
17 treated like a victim. I don't want to be treated like a
18 victim. And that's kind of the feeling I started to get.
19 And I have gone to two subsequent workshops, and
20 I have to say that the gentleman that generally gives the
21 presentation is a fine gentleman and I like him. He's an
22 engineer and I'm not. That's a little bit intimidating because
23 I'm a liberal arts guy: I know a little bit about everything
24 but not much of anything, I'll just admit it.
25 And I will stipulate that I've read just about
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1 everything that I could pull up on my computer on your Web
2 site, but I'LL admit also that most of it, much of it, I don't
3 understand. But there's some things I learned in business that
4 told me that I don't need to know as much as every accountant
5 out there; and if I get bogged down in the numbers too much,
6 that's not a good situation, getting bogged down in the
7 numbers. I've got to look at the overall picture, especially
8 as a member of a board of directors, because I've got to do
9 what's best best for the shareholders. And if I can start
10 getting too wound up in the numbers, you know, someone can
11 always razzle-dazzle me on that -- you know, I've had them do
12 that before -- because obviously they might know the numbers
13 better than you but the answer remains the same, and that
14 answer is no.
15 Now I'm going to move on to a topic that I think
16 is devastating to this part of Idaho, and that is the fact that
17 Rocky Mountain Power has the highest rates in Idaho. I mean,
18 they don't deny it, they're honest about it. I appreciate
19 that. But what I don't like is the fact that in their
20 advertising in the past, they have made what I would consider
21 to be a disingenuous comparison with what we're paying to the
22 United States average, to Mexico, Canada, and Mexico (sic).
23 Excuse me. Mexico, Canada, and China. I can't believe I wrote
24 "Mexico" twice.
25 That's not a realistic comparison. You know,
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1 think about that for a minute. Rocky Mountain Power, their
2 parent company PacifiCorp, all the same, they own coal, natural
3 gas, and the generate -- many of the generating facilities, and
4 it's here, it's in this area. And coal and natural gas,
5 especially coal Uintah coal is a lot cheaper here. Coal is
6 cheaper here than it is in other parts of the country. I mean,
7 I'm an energy investor and I'm watching this stuff all the
8 time.
9 Our -- I believe that that's even true with Idaho
10 Statutes. Our rates are supposed to be based on local
11 conditions, and these crazy comparisons of what they're trying
12 to get the public to do just don't make any sense. You know,
13 thousands and thousands of miles away, I'm supposed to compare
14 my rate to China? I mean, give me a break.
15 Now, we've got really good friends in Puerto
16 Rico, and they invite us over and we're glad to go. They told
17 me they're paying 30 cents a kilowatt hour. Well, they have to
18 ship everything in by barge and, you know, so it doesn't really
19 surprise me. You know, that is part of the United States. I
20 guess that would be part of the average.
21 I mean, other places, they have made really poor
22 decisions. I think, honestly, that there's been many decisions
23 that I don't agree with here in Idaho, but some of these other
24 places like California, they're crazy, you know, with where
25 they want I think it's 25 percent of their -- their electricity
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1 to come from renewable sources. I mean, they just can't afford
2 that. They don't understand where the money comes from.
3 Fortunately in Idaho, people do understand where the money
4 comes from and they try to live wi thin their means.
5 So it's a really horrible comparison to compare
6 our rates here to other parts of the world, other parts of the
7 Uni ted States. The accurate -- the only true comparison should
8 be to our neighbors. And I'll get to the difference between
9 hydroelectric and the carbon-based energy sources. I've taken
10 a hard look at that. I'll get to that, because there are some
11 differences between us and our neighbors, and I understand
12 that.
13 And, of course, that comparison to what people
14 are paying next door to us in Idaho Falls Power, which
15 according to the Post Register -- which I don't believe them
16 all the time, but I think this time I will believe them -- that
17 in Idaho Falls, customers in Idaho Falls are paying
18 approximately 40 percent less, and based on these rate hikes
19 that could easily go to 50 percent or more in the future
20 depending on what they do. Of course, if they go to some of
21 the things they're talking about, they're going to be paying
22 more too. They have got to be careful.
23 Our area is economically disadvantaged. I had
24 somebody use the term that they thought that these onerous rate
25 hikes, not only the amount but the frequency, they called it
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1 economic mayhem. I don't know if I like that term, but I will
2 tell you this, that we are greatly disadvantaged because of
3 these high rate hikes, these high electricity rates. And I say
4 that based on my experience in business and people that I know
5 that are manufacturers, and pretty typically they will tell you
6 that their energy costs are 30 to 40 percent of their overall
7 costs.
8 Why would anybody in their right mind want to
9 move a manufacturing business to this part of Idaho? Why? I
10 mean, it just would not make any sense. They don't come, we
11 don't have jobs for our young people, they have to move, move
12 away.
13 Worse than that, we don't have a very good tax
14 base. We're a bedroom community. We get to pay for -- as a
15 bedroom community, that's not a good situation. You know, they
16 work someplace else, but we're required to build the schools to
17 educate them. That's not a good -- I mean, that' s expensive
18 for us, it' s expensive for you, as a taxpayer, when you don't
19 have a tax base.
20 And I just don't see manufacturers coming to
21 areas that are serviced by Rocky Mountain Power, and, in fact,
22 you know, I could see some of them leaving.
23 Now, as far as construction, that's way, way down
24 right now. It will probably be down for a while, in my
25 opinion. I don't know that; that's just my opinion. I wish it
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1 would come back quickly, but it probably won't. When it does
2 come back, I don't think there are going to be that many
3 construction jobs in parts of Idaho serviced by Rocky Mountain
4 Power. I mean, at this point, the word is out.
5 You know, people that are in a situation where
6 they have to heat using electricity, I've heard just some
7 horror stories and I know what happened to me. I mean, I ended
8 up with almost one month, I wasn't even here and I had almost a
9 $600 electric bill because I didn't want the house to freeze
10 up.
11 Well, you know, I got smart. I'm lucky: I'm an
12 old guy, I'm retired, my kids are raised, you know, I can go to
13 the beach -- I don't look good in a swimming suit anymore I
14 can afford to do that stuff. When I did, i couldn't afford to
15 go. So I could afford to do the conversion, so I converted
16 over to propane. Cost me a fair amount of money, but I think
17 the payback is going to be pretty quick. You know, not
18 everybody can do that.
19 I did take advantage of time of day, I'll admit
20 it. Sometimes I'm hesitant to admit it. I put a lot of money
21 into having multiple water heaters with timers so I could run
22 those at night and they cut off during the day, and with my
23 wife and I, we seem to do just fine. I've got timers on our
24 washer and dryer: That stuff runs at night. I run my -- in
25 the summer, I irrigate my lawn at night. I've got a timer on
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1 my dishwasher so that that runs at night to take advantage of
2 time of day. I haven't figured out how to live at night and so
3 i don't cook at night; I wish I could figure that one out.
4 Anyway, it's just not a good situation.
5 And I'm remiss that I did not mention earlier in
6 my testimony or recognize that I don't know everybody here, but
7 I know that we've got two representatives. We've got
8 Representative JoAn Wood. I'm sorry, I said "representative."
9 We've got Senator Jeff Siddoway. And I'm very grateful that
10 they are here because we're going to need their support, and
11 hopefully they can recruit a lot more members of the
12 Legislature and the Senate because we're going to need their
13 help. The playing field is not level.
14 Okay, on this issue of -- I've heard people say
15 that, you know, everything is going up, businesses' operating
16 costs are going up. Well, there's some truth to that, but for
17 the most part, businesses that can't keep their overhead under
18 control, their operating costs under control, they're closing
19 their doors, you know, they're going bankrupt. You know, in
20 this day and age with the way that the economy is and, you
21 know, it might just stay this way: It might not get a whole
22 lot worse; it might not get a whole lot better. I hope it
23 doesn't get a whole lot worse -- people have had to learn how
24 to operate more effectively, more efficiently, in operating
25 their companies. If they don't, they go out of business.
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1 I know that. I'm a small business man -- I'm a
2 retired small business man, and for many years I was able to
3 cherry pick my competitors when they had to close their doors.
4 I mean, I loved it because they couldn't keep their costs under
5 control. And I'll get back to that in a minute because I think
6 that that is really important, and I also will talk about the
7 price of coal and natural gas and give some precise numbers on
8 that.
9 But, anyway, I did want to talk a little bit
10 about wind, the wind energy myth. What a joke. If there ever
11 has been a bigger con job perpetrated upon an unsuspecting
12 public that involves environmentalists -- and I'm a
13 conservationist, I'm not a environmentalist -- involves
14 environmentalists that really don't understand the true cost of
15 things, don't understand that energy should be cheap and that
16 it should be plentiful and that's the way that you drive an
17 economy, when you see those folks take the positions that they
18 take and electricity rates go up, and then you take a harder
19 look and you realize that some that are supposed to be on your
20 own side.
21 I mean, I'm a committed conservative. I've been
22 a party chairman for the Republican party in Virginia, you
23 know, for the second largest county. I don't want to make it
24 sound like I was chairman of the whole place. But some guys on
25 my side are taking advantage of this because tremendous subsidy
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1 available from the Federal government, often the State
2 government, and locally. Well, in this case, it's no doubt in
3 my mind that we're subsidizing this boondoggle, because the
4 last two rate hikes -- I'm not talking about the ECAM where
5 they claimed that wind was actually a plus -- which I don't
6 understand, because, once again, I'm not a mathematician or an
7 accountant, I'm just a simple businessman -- that wind and
8 cost, that actually helped on the ECAM adjustment, but for the
9 rate hike that took place the 28th of December, 2010, and the
10 one that we're about to -- and I hopefully don't experience it
11 but I'm kind of a pessimist but wind keeps coming up as a
12 maj or contributing factor.
13 Wind is not free, and this crony capitalism thing
14 has got to stop. These greedy capitalists that have figured
15 out a way to take advantage of the sincere desire by
16 environmentalists to clean up the environment, they've taken
17 advantage of that, they have harnessed it for their economic
18 gain, for their economic benefit. The problem with that whole
19 thing is it's good for them, it's not good for the rest of us.
20 It's only good for some.
21 You know, I'm getting back to this whole thing
22 about, you know, I just think that that whole thing with wind
23 is so disingenuous. And a long time ago I invested in the wind
24 energy myth, and solar, and I thought it was great, but I
25 noticed that the companies that I invested in, they did pretty
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1 well, but there weren't any earnings. It was all based upon
2 proj ected future earnings. They weren't making any money.
3 Some of you have probably heard about Solyndra.
4 That's one that obviously the subsidy wasn't high enough, the
5 taxpayers weren't being bled enough, and they had to close
6 their doors. You know, if you take the subsidy away from the
7 stuff, it goes away.
8 When I started taking a harder look at these
9 stocks that I held and I saw that they weren't showing any
10 profi t, eventually they were going to start going down, so I
11 got out of them. And that's exactly what happened; I mean,
12 they're in the tank now.
13 You know , it's almost like the rest of the
14 United States has figured out this wind thing and that it
15 doesn't make any sense, you know. And I've seen studies -- and
16 once again, I'm not an environmental engineer. I'm not an
17 engineer, I'm a liberal arts guy. I've got degrees in
18 poli tical science, German, and business. And you know when it
19 comes to science or technology , it doesn't really help you all
20 that much, but I can tell you that other parts of the country
21 have figured out that wind is not where it's at and they're
22 starting to back off from it.
23 I read the Economist magazine. It's pretty much
24 center-right. It's not center-left, it's center-right. It's
25 an international periodical. Li ved in Europe for five years:
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1 I know what wind has done to Spain. You know, you get even
2 liberals start to figure it out. You know, they're really
3 backing off of it.
4 I've also read things where they talk about wind
5 not being developed enough, that we're not developing our wind
6 enough. Well, the problem with wind is it's intermittent. The
7 wind doesn't blow all the time and the sun doesn't shine, so
8 what do you do when it's not generating electricity? It has to
9 be backed up with traditional sources, those traditional
10 sources being coal and natural gas.
11 And, of course, the infrastructure required to
12 integrate it into the grid is immense, and as a result of that,
13 the economic the environmental benefits of it are next to
14 nil. I've seen those studies. Now, I'm repeating what
15 somebody else has written. Once again, I'm not a scientist,
16 you know, so I'm going by what somebody else has written. But
17 the environment -- my point is the environmental benefit isn't
18 there, and this stuff, you know, the way that PURPA -- and I
19 don't really want to get into that too much because it's a
20 really complicated discussion. If I try to explain it, it's
21 really going to confuse people. But, by law, regulated
22 utili ties are required to purchase renewable energy from
23 independent producers at the avoided cost rate, and that's
24 supposed to be -- avoided cost is supposed to be the same price
25 that they would have -- that the regulated utility would have
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1 to pay for a traditional source such as coal or natural gas.
2 Sounds really good. The problem with that is
3 there's a tremendous expense that has to do with integrating
4 that into their grid. And I took a look at it, somebody showed
5 me it, and I won't be able to quote the exact numbers, but I
6 know that Rocky Mountain Power asked for a lot higher
7 integration amount. I want to say it was around $12. I'm not
8 sure what it was, and I don't even know the standard unit of
9 measurement, I don't know if it was kilowatts or what.
10 But, anyway, they were only granted about
11 70 percent of that, you know, and that's a subsidy, you know,
12 from Idaho Public Utili ties Commission that is borne by the
13 consumer, by the residential consumers, and that's the reason
14 that wind, in my opinion, keeps coming up as a reason that our
15 rates keep going up.
16 Now, I like the idea of renewable energy and some
17 day wind and solar may be economically viable, and that day
18 will be when there's an effective way to store it. It's a
19 storage issue. For some reason, I don't know, I thought a lot
20 of electricity could be stored in the grid. It's on demand.
21 It has to be produced or generated as it's used, and that
22 creates quite a problem. So, once again, once there's a way to
23 store i t effectively, once that barrier is broken, we're all
24 going to be driving electric cars and, you know, it will make
25 sense; but until that day, can't we just keep it in a test
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1 laboratory and not inflict it on the public? I mean, it's just
2 crazy.
3 I mean, that's where I'm coming from as just a
4 businessman that looks at things that way, and I i II bet that
5 there's a lot of people in here that are small business men
6 just like me. And just for what it's worth, I got my start in
7 milking 30 head of cows.
8 Okay, it's true that other Idaho utili ties are
9 more hydro-based than Rocky Mountain Power, which is most
10 primarily carbon-based. In other words, somewhere over 70
11 percent or somewhere around 70 percent is from coal and natural
12 gas. Coal is the most of it and gas is over 20 percent. I
13 mean, that's true, that's absolutely true. And based on what
14 I've seen with hydroelectric power, it's pretty consistent, you
15 know, based on the flow.
16 And we had an unusual year this last year. We
17 all know about it. I was worried my house was going to flood;
18 maybe some of you were. And so the flow was better and so they
19 go -- you know, it was more plentiful and I guess it got a
20 little bit cheaper. In fact, it got so cheap that Bonneville
21 Power Administration, they stopped buying wind and were sued
22 over it, and the reason they had to be sued was because on its
23 own, wind and solar don't make it, it has to be heavily
24 subsidized. But, anyway, they cut that out. They didn't need
25 it anymore. That was the first thing they cut out. I just
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1 thought that was great and I thought that there was something
2 to be learned from that.
3 Well, anyway, so hydro is pretty consistent, and
4 you would think that there must have been just some hellacious
5 increases in the price of coal as a commodity or natural gas as
6 a commodity to justify not only high rate hikes, but the
7 increasing frequency. Because keep in mind, I think it was a
8 couple years after the purchase of Rocky Mountain -- whoever
9 owned Rocky Mountain Power before, before -- a couple years
10 after it was purchased ultimately by Berkshire Hathaway, the
11 CEO is, of course, Warren Buffett it was a couple years
12 later in 2008 when they put in for their first price hike
13 proposal, and when they did that, it was true at that time,
14 coal and natural gas were through the roof.
15 I mean, I was following natural gas back then; it
16 was between ten and $12 a thousand cubic feet. So, natural gas
17 must still be going up. Nope, today, the last I checked today,
18 I think when the market closed it was $3.44. And I'll speed it
19 up a little bit here. Because Uintah Coal back then was $61 a
20 short ton; today it's 40. And this is the cheapest coal in the
21 nation. And so, you know, that argument just doesn't hold
22 water with somebody that thinks like a businessman, and I think
23 that's the way that we all think. Coal and natural gas are way
24 down, yet they want big increases.
25 Now, as far as this Negotiated Settlement, I kind
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1 of -- you know, I was following this, and I'll admit that I
2 used to be a negotiator in the United States Army and later I
3 negotiated contracts for myself, and sometimes I'd do it with
4 other people when we'd started purchasing co-ops and stuff like
5 that -- but it was my recollection that their original rate
6 request was for a 15. 9-percent rate hike, and the way that I
7 read that, that was basically going to be a year. And I make
8 that assumption because they have said and I've heard it over
9 and over again that it's their plan to put in for annual rate
10 hikes.
11 Well, so I have to ask myself: They asked for
12 15.9. Later I read someplace it was 15 percent. How did that
13 become eight percent just like that? I mean, how were they
14 willing to just knock it in half?
15 And what I've come up with was that was a
16 negotiating ploy, that they asked for a lot more than they
17 wanted and they're perfectly happy to get half -- approximately
18 half this year and a little bit less next year guaranteed, even
19 though we don't know what conditions are going to be. So I
20 just don't get their numbers. Isn't this all supposed to be
21 about numbers that make some sense?
22 And if they want to say that it was for -- and
23 they have said that, that they were requesting more money for
24 capi tal improvements. Well, I guess some of those capital
25 improvements just aren't that important today or as important
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.1 as they were when they put in for this rate hike, because
2 obviously they're not going to be doing those capital
3 improvements or as many of them.
4 So, you know, when I was in the business, we used
5 to call this padding the bid. Padding the bid. Now, I'm
6 concerned about the way this whole thing is set up. They are
7 guaranteed a profit, Rocky Mountain Power is. Now, they're
8 guaranteed obviously I know this from participating in these
9 forums, that it's up to a certain amount, and the threshold
10 right now apparently is 9.98 percent, but they have asked for
11 10.5. I don't know if that was part of the Negotiated
12 Settlement or not, I don't. I've read all of that stuff, but.13 sometimes it doesn't sink in.
14 I remember in my history class when I was in high
15 school -- I think it was maybe my freshman, maybe my sophomore
16 year -- that during World War II, the government really wanted
17 to beef up industrial production, you know, for the war effort
18 so that we could win the war, so they came out with what was
19 known as a cost plus percentage of cost contract. So that
20 meant that if they produced something for $100, that -- or,
21 excuse me, if they produced something for $10 and they were
22 allowed ten-percent profit on that, that they would get another
23 buck, or 11 bucks. Well, they figured out pretty quickly that
24 if they could make the same item for not ten bucks but if they.25 could pad it and make it for 100, that their profit wasn't
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.1 going to be $ 1, it was going to be $ 10. And so basically there
2 was no incentive for them to operate, in my opinion,
3 efficiently or effectively. And the Supreme Court apparently
4 agreed with me, and those kind of contracts are
5 unconstitutional.
6 And I think that what we're dealing with here is
7 a variation of the same thing, but I'm not going to blame the
8 Commissioners or, you know, what's going on in the state of
9 Idaho for this. It's going on allover, and it's just not
10 right. It's just a situation or a condition that's just not
11 right, and, you know, I guess if I had an extra half a million
12 dollars, I might be willing to take this to the Supreme Court i.13 but I don't have an extra half a million dollars at this
14 time -- maybe I could raise it, I don't know -- because I think
15 that this is, to me, akin to cost plus percentage of cost
16 contracting.
17 You know, when you apply this to some of the
18 other things that have happened -- and maybe there's a problem
19 with my understanding; could be, I don't know, maybe not --
20 seems to me like sometimes a general view makes a lot more
21 sense than getting down into the weeds and worrying about how
22 the columns add up. Because I know what's going on: We're
23 getting these crazy, crazy rate hikes, but I don't think.24 there's any incentive -- and this is, once again, just my
25 opinion, but I don't think there's any incentive for them to
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1 even sign really good supplier contracts because, hey, you
2 know, they're just going to make their profit based on what
3 that is.
4 Anyway, I read someplace else and I think I heard
5 in the workshop that and I don't have any trouble believing
6 that they're not making the full ten percent or 9.98 percent.
7 I read that it was somewhere between 5.5 percent to six percent
8 that they're making right now, and I thought, dang, that's
9 pretty good.
10 And then I started thinking about the stock
11 market and I started thinking about Warren Buffett. And
12 Warren Buffett is the CEO of Berkshire Hathaway. And if you go
13 from Rocky Mountain Power to PacifiCorp and there's a few
14 companies in between, the ultimate owner -- and they don't own
15 it all; I think it's like 88 percent -- that's Berkshire
16 Hathaway. Warren Buffett is the CEO. He's the third richest
17 man in America. That fluctuates: Some years he's second, I
18 think he's been first a few times. I don't want to demean the
19 guy.
20 But, anyway, he went out and invested $6 billion
21 in Bank of America, Bank of America stock. The symbol is BAC
22 if you don't believe me: You can look it up. And it's
23 preferred stock, not common stock, there's some limitations to
24 it. And, of course, if they go bankrupt, they would get paid
25 off before the common stock people.
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1 But, anyway, this particular stock paid a return
2 of six percent. I thought, Bank of America, dang, the only
3 reason they're still in business is because of government
4 bailouts. I say "government"; the Federal Reserve had a lot to
5 do with it too. They could easily go broke and depending on
6 who gets elected, I've heard some of these guys
7 Oh, am I going too long?
8 A VOICE: More than five minutes.
9 MR. ZIEL: Tighten it up, Bruce.
10 THE WITNESS: Anyway, if six percent was good
11 enough in that situation, why not six percent here? I think
12 six percent here would be more than reasonable. We're a secure
13 investment, so why not? Let's do it. Six percent, it would be
14 groundbreaking, all eyes would be on Idaho. That's fair,
15 because most of us are having a hard time getting anywhere near
16 that in the stock market.
17 The solution long-term is political: We're going
18 to have to get some elected officials that will really help us.
19 We've got a couple here tonight. Hopefully they will, so
20 we can level the playing field.
21 Thank you.22 (Applause. )
23 COMMISSIONER KJELLANDER: Thank you, Mr. Baxter.
24 Before you leave the podium, let's see if there are any
25 questions.
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1 MR. PRICE: No questions.
2 MS. HOGLE: One question.
3 COMMISSIONER KJELLANDER: Yes.
4
5 CROSS-EXAMINATION
6
7 BY MS. HOGLE:
8 Mr. Baxter, I'd like to ask you about your claimQ.
9 that Rocky Mountain Power has the highest rates in Idaho.
10 A.Was that incorrect?
11 Let me ask you if you knew that based on EnergyQ.
12 Information Administration --
13 A VOICE: You have to speak up. We cannot hear
14 you at all. You have to speak up.
15 BY MS. HOGLE: Did you know that based on EnergyQ.
16 Information Administration, a neutral third party, they
17 compared the 20 largest utilities in the state of Idaho,
18 specifically the average retail rates, and Rocky Mountain Power
19 was the --
20 A VOICE: Most expensive?
Q.BY MS. HOGLE: No, seventh lowest retail rate out
22 of all the 20
23
24.25
A.Is that power companies?
Q.at 6.27 cents per kilowatt hour, Idaho Power
Company's was 6.45 cents per kilowatt hour, and Avista
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1 Corporation was 7.17 cents per kilowatt hour?
2 A.And you're saying that you're lower than them? I
3 guess I didn't understand the question.
4 I should consult with my Counsel though right
5 hero. Oh, hey, I don't have a Counsel right here. What's
6 wrong with this picture? Next time I'll bring my lawyer, but
7 go ahead.
8 Q.No more questions. Thank you.
9 A.Thank you.
10 COMMISSIONER KJELLANDER: Mr. Baxter, thank you.
11 (The witness left the stand.)
12 COMMISSIONER KJELLANDER: We'd like to call next
13 Jim Marshall.
14 MR. MARSHALL: I have nothing to say.
15 COMMISSIONER KJELLANDER: Thank you,
16 Mr. Marshall, though for being here this evening.
17 Senator Brent Hill, is that you in the front row?
18 SENATOR HILL: Yes.
19 COMMISSIONER KJELLANDER: I don't think I've ever
20 seen you look as casual as I wish I was right now. It's good
21 to see you. Are you the governor today?
22 MR. HILL: Yeah, I am.
23 COMMISSIONER KJELLANDER: Welcome, Mr. Governor.
24 Calling next, Bob Jackson. Mr. Jackson?
25 A VOICE: He had to go home early.
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1 COMMISSIONER KJELLANDER: Okay. Mr. Reed
2 Daniels.
3 A VOICE: He left his power on.
4 MR. DANIELS: I promise to keep it short.
5
6 REED DANIELS,
7 appearing as a public witness, being first duly sworn, was
8 examined and testified as follows:
9
10 EXAMINATION
11
12 BY MR. PRICE:
13 Please state your name and your address, sir.Q.
14 Yeah, my name is Reed Daniels, and I 1m --A.
15 A VOICE: Turn it on.
16 THE WITNESS: There we go.
17 A VOICE: Thank you.
18 THE WITNESS: Name is Reed Daniels, and 11m at
19 3258 East 100 North, and the address is actually Rigby, 83442,
20 but it's really Grant.
21 Q.BY MR. PRICE: And are you a Rocky Mountain Power
22 customer?
.23 A.Yes, I am.
24 Thank you, sir. Please proceed.Q.
25 THE WITNESS: Could I please have everyone in the
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1 audience take out $5 and give it to me? I need $5 from
2 everybody in this room right now. No takers?
3 A VOICE: All I've got is a twenty.
4 THE WITNESS: We'll make some change.
5 I'm going to have this big Christmas bash at the
6 house. I'm out of money. I don't have money for groceries,
7 you know, but I figure since we're all in the Rocky Mountain
8 Power grid, we kind of share the costs and -- oh, I forgot to
9 tell you: You've got to share the costs; however, you're not
10 invited to the party.
11 A VOICE: We're used to it.
12 THE WITNESS: Sounds ridiculous, doesn't it?
13 Sounds just like Rocky Mountain Power wanting Idaho and Wyoming
14 customers to pay for their new power infrastructure to serve a
15 new client in Oregon or wherever it was they were going to be.
16 So why did Rocky Mountain Power build a new power
17 distribution line without knowing how they were going to pay
18 for it? Do they not understand basic economics? What was
19 their finance department doing? Where was their chief
20 financial officer? Have they notified their stockholders of
21 this maj or blunder?
22 What is the return on investment for those of us
23 here in Eastern Idaho who may be forced to cover the costs of
24 the bad financial management on the part of Rocky Mountain
25 Power?
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1 We already have one of the worst, most unreliable
2 power systems in the country.
3 A VOICE: Amen.
4 THE WITNESS: We Rocky Mountain Power customers
5 know the power goes off all the time regardless of the weather
6 condi tions, not to mention fluctuating voltages at all times of
7 the day and night.
8 Now, I wouldn't be nearly as upset if Rocky
9 Mountain Power was charging me a little extra to upgrade the
10 antiquated, unreliable system that serves our homes here in
11 Idaho. I would actually be quite happy, because then I could
12 set all my digital clocks and I wouldn't have to let them flash
13 all the time. You know, you can always tell when you're on
14 Rocky Mountain Power if you go to somebody' s house because
15 VCRs, microwaves, you know, just flash, you know.
16 Recently, there was a new power line constructed
17 by Idaho Power. It goes west of Idaho Falls for about 25, 30
18 miles. It's going to serve the new AREVA nuclear facility.
19 That new power line and infrastructure was not paid for, my
20 understanding, by raising the rates of Idaho Power customers;
21 it was negotiated with their new customer, AREVA, based on
22 proj ected revenues so as not to impact the rates of other
23 customers. In other words, Idaho Power Company did not build
24 something that it had no way of paying for.
25 Nearly every year, it seems like Rocky Mountain
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1 Power is petitioning the IPUC for a rate hike for one thing or
2 another, and the IPUC seems to always rollover and let them
3 have their increase. Now, I thought the IPUC was supposed to
4 take customers into consideration, as a governing body, when a
5 monopoly like Rocky Mountain Power requests an increase. You
6 know, we don't have another power company we can go to.
7 We've all had enough of this. I've been up and
8 down the valley. We have had enough. There are families,
9 farms, businesses that are barely making it through this
10 economy, and now Rocky Mountain Power wants us to share the
11 cost of a new power line infrastructure that we do not benefit
12 from and, apparently, they could not afford it. But we're
13 stuck in their monopoly: We don't have another place to
14 purchase electricity.
15 So, in closing, I would just strongly beg and
16 suggest that the Commission stand up for the Rocky Mountain
17 Power customers. This time, would you please stand up for us?
18 We won't receive any direct benefit from this.19 That is all.20 (Applause. )
21 COMMISSIONER KJELLANDER: Thank you, Mr. Daniels.
22 Let's see. Are there any questions from Rocky
23 Mountain Power? Any questions from the attorney representing
24 Public Utilities Commission?
25 MR. PRICE: No questions. Thank you, sir.
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.COMMISSIONER KJELLANDER: Any questions from the1
2 Commissioners?
3
4
5
6 Keith Barney.
7
COMMISSIONER REDFORD: No. Thank you, sir.
(The witness left the stand.)
COMMISSIONER KJELLANDER: We'd like to call now
8 KEITH BARNEY,
9 appearing as a public witness, being first duly sworn, was
10 examined and testified as follows:
.
20
21
11
12
13 drifting away.
14
15
16 away.
17
18 all the time.
19
22 BY MR. PRICE:
23 Q.
COMMISSIONER REDFORD: Excuse me, I was kind of
THE WITNESS: You what?
COMMISSIONER REDFORD: I was kind of drifting
THE WITNESS: Oh, that's all right. I do that
EXAMINATION
Sir, could you please state your name and your.24 address for the record?
25 A.Okay. My name is Keith Barney --
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1 A VOICE: Use the mike.
2 THE WITNESS: What's that?
3 A VOICE: The mike.
4 THE WITNESS: Oh, sorry. I usually don't need
5 one, but --
6 My name is Keith Barney. I'm at 3286 East 100
7 North, Rigby, Idaho. And what else?
8 Q.BY MR. PRICE: And are you a Rocky Mountain Power
9 customer?
10 A.Yes. Yes. Yes.
11 Q.Thank you, sir. Please proceed.
12 THE WITNESS: Okay. I really don't know that I
13 need to do that swearing business, because I really don't have
14 anything as far as facts. Mostly, I came here full of
15 questions, so I hope that's still appropriate.
16 COMMISSIONER KJELLANDER: As far as the procedure
17 tonight, we're not here to answer questions. We're here to
18 actually take your public testimony.
19 THE WITNESS: Okay. All right.
COMMISSIONER KJELLANDER: However, at the end of
21 this evening or if we do take a break, there are some
22 representatives from both Staff of the PUC, from Monsanto I
23 believe was here earlier, and also from Rocky Mountain Power,.24 and I know they'll be happy to entertain any questions.
25 THE WITNESS: Okay. Then I'll make this fairly
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1 brief. Let me start out by stating what I believe is kind of
2 the foundational issue here, and these are probably just common
3 things that everybody knows, but America is a system of
4 capi talism, free enterprise. We're a very prosperous nation.
5 Tradi tionally, we've been the most prosperous nation in the
6 history of the world. That may be debatable today. That has
7 been built because of free enterprise principles.
8 Now, with utilities, we've got a little bit of a
9 logj am when it comes to utili ties. Utili ties, by their very
10 nature, are monopolies. And monopolies don't fit into free
11 enterprise principles very well, but they're necessary in order
12 to provide the kind of things that utili ties provide. I mean,
13 it just doesn't make sense that everybody is out generating
14 li ttle bits of power here and there. So, monopolies are a
15 necessary thing for our society to function well.
16 So, free enterprise systems rely on businesses
17 and capitalism in order to keep things efficient. Those that
18 are not efficient go out of business, and those that are
19 efficient prosper.
20 Utili ties, they're marching to the tune of a
21 li ttle bit different drum here, and so in order to keep
22 utili ties in check, there are regulatory agencies, and I think
23 that's your function.
24 My -- my list of questions then -- and I will
25 make these in the form of a statement rather than questions
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1 is I believe that the Idaho Public Utili ties Commission owes
2 the people of the state of Idaho with justification for these
3 kinds of proposals; and when those approvals are made, the
4 reasons why those are made.
5 And I think that there are probably valid
6 reasons. I'm sure that Rocky Mountain Power, just like
7 everybody else, costs go up. Sometimes rates have to increase
8 just to cover costs, you know, and I'm okay with that. I
9 understand financial principles well enough to understand that
10 you've got to recover your costs.
11 Where the problem may be is, as a couple of
12 testimonies have already been said, is maybe some of those
13 decisions on increased costs have been foolish decisions.
14 Maybe pursuing wind power is a foolish thing. I don't know,
15 I'm not arguing that point.
16 What I, as a Rocky Mountain Power customer, would
17 appreciate is a more transparent method of communicating those
18 things. I would appreciate that transparency from the Idaho
19 Public Utili ties Commission to be more transparent to us. I,
20 as a resident, as a consumer, as a citizen, hold my
21 publicly-elected officials accountable through my vote. I
22 don't have much influence on the Public Utili ties Commission
23 except through those representatives, and so one of the things
24 that I would appreciate in understanding is having the Public
25 Utilities Commission explain or communicate, if you will, how
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1 our interests are being represented in this kind of a process.
2 I understand Rocky Mountain's goals: They want
3 to maximize investments for their investors. That's
4 understandable, all companies do that. But since they are a
5 monopoly, the Public Utili ties Commission has a fiduciary duty
6 to us citizens to make sure that it makes sense. So, I just
7 want it to make sense. If it makes sense, I'm okay.
8 But I would like to see a business plan. I would
9 like to see these costs have increased X amount of percent, and
10 this is why we're increasing our rates; or, the rate increase
11 is to produce a better rate of return for our stockholders. I
12 want to know that. I want to know why the rate increase is
13 being proposed.
14 And a couple other issues and I'll close:
15 I only found out about this yesterday, and, you
16 know, I would appreciate a little better method for letting us
17 know about these proceedings so that we can be more involved.
18 Maybe that's Rocky Mountain's responsibility, maybe that's the
19 Utilities Commission's responsibility. I'm not sure who should
20 do that. Make it's both.
21 I'd like to know why this was held in Saint
22 Anthony instead of a more central location. This is a long
23 ways to go. Anyway, I'd like to know that kind of thing.
24 In closing, I'll go to my closing thoughts here
25 and I'll just read this, because I was just j otting this down
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1 as I was sitting here:
2 The Idaho Public Utilities Commission's goal
3 should be to do whatever is right for the public good, whatever
4 that is. I believe that should be your goal. I don't know
5 what your mission statement is, but it should encompass that.
6 That good includes enabling a reasonable return for investors,
7 and to watch out for the interests of people like me, to watch
8 out for the public good, to create a good economic environment
9 for the state of Idaho.
10 We're not sophisticated, people like me and
11 probably most of the people in this room -- there might be a
12 few exceptions -- we're not sophisticated on these issues. We
13 don't have time: We have jobs. We rely on experts to look out
14 for our interests. And if I'm confident that you're doing
15 that, I wouldn't have been here tonight, but I don't know. I
16 think communication needs to be improved so that we have that
17 confidence in our Public Utili ties Commission.
18 And, I mean, we already know that Rocky Mountain
19 is going to try to maximize their profits. Okay, we understand
20 that monopolies do that -- sorry, utili ties.
21 The Justice Department have a lot of laws on the
22 books for anti trust situations. They went after Standard Oil
23 at the beginning of the 1900s because of that monopoly
24 si tuation. They broke a lot of that up.
25 IBM has been in the cross hairs of the Justice
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1 Department for the same reasons.
2 Microsoft.
3 There are many.
4 There's a reason why we have commissions to
5 govern utilities which are monopolies, and these private
6 businesses that gain monopolies were broken up by the Justice
7 Department -- AT&T is probably the classic example because
8 monopolies can take advantage of people like us.
9 And so I'm not convinced that this rate hike is
10 justifiable. It may be. But I guess until you convince all of
11 us, then I would say that this should be denied until we say,
12 okay, that makes sense. It just needs to make sense.
13 Thanks.
14 COMMISSIONER KJELLANDER: Thank you.
15 (Applause. )
16 COMMISSIONER KJELLANDER: Mr. Barney, could we
17 see if there are any questions?
18 Are there questions from Rocky Mountain Power?
19 MS. HOGLE: No.
COMMISSIONER KJELLANDER: From the attorney
21 representing Staff?
22
23
MR. PRICE: No.
COMMISSIONER KJELLANDER: Members of the.24 Commission.
25 Thank you again for your testimony.
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1 (The witness left the stand.)
2 COMMISSIONER KJELLANDER: I'd like to call now
3 Steve -- is it Preebe (phonetic)?
4 MR. PRIEBE: Close enough.
5 COMMISSIONER KJELLANDER: I'm sorry.
6
7 STEVE PRIEBE,
8 appearing as a public witness, being first duly sworn, was
9 examined and testified as follows:
10
11 EXAMINATION
12
13 BY MR. PRICE:
14 Q.Sir, please state your name and your address for
15 the record.
16 A.My name is Steve Priebe.
17 Q.Is it turned on?
18 A VOICE: Mike, closer to you.
19 THE WITNESS: Okay. My name is Steve Priebe. I
20 live at 1105 South Highline in Idaho Falls, Idaho, 83401.
21 Q.BY MR. PRICE: And are you a Rocky Mountain Power
22 customer?
23
24.25
A.I am.
Q.Thank you, sir. Go ahead.
THE WITNESS: My testimony will be very brief
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1 because a lot of it's already been covered and I know people
2 want to go home sometime tonight, so I basically -- my primary
3 obj ection to this proposed rate hike is in I guess it's a
4 very personal thing and how it deals with the need for wind
5 power, the problems that I have.
6 We have basically paid through our various and
7 sundry income taxes -- State, local, and Federal we paid for
8 a significant portion of the windmills that are allover the
9 hills up there and not just here but other places as well, and
10 we're now being asked to pay increased electricity rates in
11 part to offset the costs of the integration of those windmills
12 into our grid and other grids. I think there needs to come a
13 point where we say enough is enough, and we need to stop
14 subsidizing other people's development and other people's power
15 rates when we're not benefiting from them directly. So, I
16 would urge the Commission not to approve this additional rate
17 hike.
18 I will answer questions.
19 COMMISSIONER KJELLANDER: Thank you, Mr. Priebe.
20 Let's see if there are any questions.
21 Do you have any questions from Rocky Mountain
22 Power?
23
24
25
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1 CROS S - EXAMINAT ION
2
3 BY MS. HOGLE:
4 Q. i just have one quick question, and I'll be as
5 loud as I can. I don't need a microphone.
6 I just wondered if you knew that there are no
7 wind costs associated in this rate case.
8 A.I will tell you that I did read the settlement
9 and as much of the testimony as I could. And I'll tell you
10 qui te honestly I didn't understand a lot of it, because it's
11 written in a way that, you know, the people here can understand
12 it, and that's understandable. I tried; I couldn't get it
13 entirely.
14 I can't tell you. I know a significant part of
15 it is for the transmission lines. I don't know what -- what
16 those transmission lines exactly are using -- being used for,
17 but I do know that the previous rate increases were a
18 significant -- or, significantly impacted by the requirement to
19 integrate wind energy into the system. And it's not a good
20 energy source, we shouldn't have probably done it in the first
21 place, but we did.
22 COMMISSIONER KJELLANDER: Thank you,
23 Mr. Priebe.
24 MS. HOGLE: No more questions.
25 COMMISSIONER KJELLANDER: Any further questions?
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1 MR. PRICE: No questions.
2 COMMISSIONER KJELLANDER: Thank you again for
3 your testimony.
4 (The witness left the stand.)
5 COMMISSIONER KJELLANDER: I'd like to call now
6 David Callister.
7
8 DAVID CALLISTER,
9 appearing as a public witness, being first duly sworn, was
10 examined and testified as follows:
11
12 EXAMINATION
13
14 BY MR. PRICE:
15 Q.Please state --
16 David Callister, 1454 West 3700 North, Howe,A.
17 Idaho, 83244.
18 And are you a Rocky Mountain Power customer?Q.
19 A.I am.
Q.Thank you, sir. Go ahead.
THE WITNESS: I will.
22 As I've read over the settlement thing that was
23 handed out when we first got here tonight, I am pleased to see
24.25
in Item No. 12 that there will be no change in irrigation load
service. It's been a fear that that's been going away.
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1 I don't know my timeline real well because it's
2 been going on for a few years, but I know when the BPA credit
3 went away a few years ago, maybe as many as ten, that we were
4 promised that it would only be a 23-percent increase in power
5 rates. I went from having $4,000 total irrigation bill per a
6 month to now it's $4,000 per a pump. It doubled when the BPA
7 credi t went away, and it just keeps getting bigger and bigger
8 and bigger to where it used to be a not significant part of our
9 cost of operation, it's becoming almost overbearing.
10 As I read through the settlement, I do not see
11 what the rates are going to be for irrigation, and that
12 concerns me.
13 It also concerns me when the quote that was given
14 before on Rocky Mountain being the seventh lowest cost producer
15 in the state -- I have a hard time reconciling that. I don't
16 know if that's because it's being factored in the Monsanto
17 contracts, which are very low cents per kilowatt relative to
18 other things. As I look on the Internet at Idaho Power rates
19 and the City of Idaho Falls power rates and I've talked to the
20 REA that's just over the mountain from me, what their power
21 rates are -- I'm paying ten cents a kilowatt hour at my house.
22 There's others, most of the rest of them are closer to five.
23 It's been a while since I looked at the rates, but when I --
24 last time, I did an extensive search and I did a spreadsheet
25 trying to figure it out what it would cost me using the power I
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1 was using now if I lived in an area that was under Idaho Power
2 or under the REA.
3 And I do know the chairman of the board of the
4 local REA that's across the mountain from me and we've had many
5 discussions, and he thought I was fabricating what our rates
6 were. So I printed the rate schedule off the Internet and I
7 gave it to him, and he came to me and he said, "I'm sorry."
8 I don't know -- I do know why we have the laws
9 that we have: It's so that they are fair and they were
10 designed right. But I wish that if we have a rural area that
11 Rocky Mountain's really not interested in very much, that they
12 would be willing to sell it off to the REAs that are
13 neighboring us with a much lower cost of energy right now,
14 because I'd sure like to pay what they're paying in the other
15 valley.
16 There's one more thing, but it's slipping my
17 mind.
18 COMMISSIONER REDFORD: That's okay, it happens to
19 us all the time.
20 THE WITNESS: Yeah. I am concerned with what's
21 been said and I don't know how true it is, whether or not part
22 of the costs that are being raised is the int- -- the corridors
23 for power, to move power to other parts.
24 I keep hearing that some of these rate increases
25 are due to growth, and I haven't seen any power growth in my
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1 valley.
2 I have seen people put in variable speed pumps.
3 On the dairy that I operate, we put in variable speed milk
4 pumps, variable speed cooler pumps. We're doing everything
5 we can to reduce the amount of energy we're using, but our bill
6 keeps getting bigger.
7 I don't see many new houses. I don't see many
8 businesses. So I worry that some of this rate or the increase
9 in infrastructure is going to support the rest of Rocky
10 Mountain's area, primarily in Utah.
11 It concerns me when I look at the rate schedules
12 on the Internet that the summer rate schedule for Idaho Power
13 is it was, like, May to September, and Idaho -- and under
14 Rocky Mountain in Idaho the summer rate schedule starts a month
15 earlier and ends a month later, and I don't understand that,
16 and unless we're tying in that it's the whole package being
17 tied in with the Utah where they have a longer season than we
18 do here. So I wonder if we're not -- if it's not being
19 separated very well.
20 And on the power bill, I've noticed that there's
21 been things creeping up at the bottom. There's always been
22 demand charges, there's always been energy charges, but now
23 we're starting to see customer efficiency charges. And it's my
24 understanding that this goes to help with the "See ya later,
25 refrigerator" or helping defer the costs of if you petition to
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1 get money to put in fluorescent lights or some other way of
2 saving electricity. Especially with the irrigation pumps, I'm
3 paying way more into that fund than I'll ever get out no matter
4 how many new pivot packages get partially subsidized if I apply
5 for it, but it's mandatory that I pay into this program. I
6 would really like to see that customer efficiency services
7 program go away, because, to me, it's just a bottomless pit.
8 If I want to be efficient, I can make the changes myself. I
9 don't need to be paying in a fund to help support other people
10 to make those changes.
11 And on this page, there's the energy -- the ECAM,
12 and it just barely showed up on the power bill and I'm still
13 confused as to what it is other than I do know that because of
14 it, the power rates or, the total bill has gotten a little
15 bigger. And I have a hard time when I get on the Internet,
16 looking at some of these things, to try to determine what it
17 really is; and I'm sure that there is a reason for it to be
18 there, but that's -- I haven't found the reason yet and I don't
19 understand what it is.
20 That's what I have. I've got my load off my
21 chest, I guess, and I'll stand for any questions.22 (Applause. )
23 COMMISSIONER KJELLANDER: Thank you,
24 Mr. Callister.
25 Are there any questions from legal Counsel from
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1 Rocky Mountain Power?
2 MS. HOGLE: Just one question.
3 COMMISSIONER KJELLANDER: We're going to go ahead
4 and stick the microphone down there just for courtesy.
5
6 CROSS-EXAMINATION
7
8 BY MS. HOGLE:
9 Q.Just one question, Mr. Callister: Did you know
10 that due to the significant efforts from the Idaho Public
11 Utili ties Commission, Rocky Mountain Power, and other State
12 agencies, that the BPA credit has been reinstated effective
13 December 2011?
14 A.I did not know that, and I'm very thankful to
15 hear that.
16 Q.And just one more question: Did you know that
17 there are no new transmission costs associated with this rate
18 case?
19 A.From what I i ve heard, I've heard that.
20 THE WITNESS: Oh, I remember what the other thing
21 I wanted to say was, is and I do understand that it is
22 because of a endangered species suit that Rocky Mountain Power
23 has been installing bird protectors on all the power poles in.24 our area. About two weeks later the wind will blow and about
25 25 percent of them will falloff, and the wind blows a little
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1 bi t later and another 25 percent of them falloff, and then
2 there's a crew back out putting them back on. And I do know
3 that it's not something that you're wanting to do, it's been
4 forced upon you by this suit, but it seems like a real waste of
5 money for the number of protectors I see put on just to come
6 right back off and the real low numbers of birds that are being
7 electrocuted.
8 (Applause. )
9 COMMISSIONER KJELLANDER: Again, Mr. Callister,
10 thank you for your testimony.
11 (The witness left the stand.)
12 COMMISSIONER KJELLANDER: I'd like to call now
13 Tim Hunseth (phonetic).
14 MR. HINSETH: Hinseth (phonetic).
15 COMMISSIONER KJELLANDER: Hinseth?
16 MR. HINSETH: Yes.
17 Don't you say a word.
18
19 TIM HINSETH,
20 appearing as a public witness, being first duly sworn, was
21 examined and testified as follows:
22
23
24.25
THE WITNESS: Are we married now?
COMMISSIONER REDFORD: Maybe not here, but in
California we are.
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1 THE WITNESS: Yeah.
2
3 EXAMINATION
4
5 BY MR. PRICE:
6 Q.Would you go ahead and state your --
7 THE WITNESS: That's why I don' t live there
8 anymore.
9 Tim Hinseth. I live at 710 North Sixth West,
10 here in Saint Anthony, 83445.
11 Q.BY MR. PRICE: And are you a Rocky Mountain Power
12 customer?
13 Yes, I am, which is the first topic I want to
14 say.
15 THE WITNESS: First off, these guys that came up
16 here with well -prepared speeches and tons of data and all this
17 sort of thing, I'm not that good of a public speaker and I
18 didn't come here to do that. I just wanted to pass along a few
19 observations as just a residential customer usage.
20 First off, years ago, I lived in Portland,
21 Oregon -- this is about 30 years ago -- and I used to service
22 computers at the Pacific Power and Light building in Downtown
23 Portland, which I happened to notice on my Rocky Mountain Power
24.25
bill is where I'm sending my bill, is to that building.
I also remember when I first moved out here we
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1 were under Utah Power and Light, which then eventually became
2 Rocky Mountain Power. So, there has been an evolution here of
3 what I call the cell phone industry complex in the utility
4 business. There's this infrastructure out there, plenty of
5 wires, plenty of generators, plenty of switching stations high
6 up and down, but they all seem to be in blocks that are being
7 sold and manipulated and moved around to different companies,
8 and the customers have no choice. They have no say in this
9 whatsoever.
10 The term "monopoly" has been brought up a couple
11 times. That's been the way it's been in America and utili ties
12 since probably -- well, maybe even before World War II, but
13 essentially different after World War II. And there really
14 isn't any voice that the people that are customers have. We
15 really can't get on the phone and call for a rate from other
16 companies and say, "Okay, I want to switch to you." We can't
17 do that. We're pretty much stuck in the loop.
18 The Commission is here because of that. That is
19 our way of addressing this. That is our only choice.
20 The other thing I want to observe I had some
21 questions, but I know we can't do that tonight. I would
22 suggest just slightly and I don't want to upset you guys,
23 but I would almost suggest that at a public hearing that there
24 is a time limit on some people, or on everybody, that you put a
25 ten-minute or 15-minute time limit. We sat here for an hour
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.1 and only heard two speakers.
2 MR. BAXTER: Sorry.
3 THE WITNESS: I'm not trying to pick on you.
4 And like I say, I'm not totally prepared for an
5 entire dissertation here. I do want to mention one other
6 thing?
7 I have been living here in the Saint Anthony area
8 for just about 30 years -- I moved from Portland to Idaho
9 and in that time, I never really paid attention to this
10 process. Every year goes by, the bills keep coming. I'm not a
11 farmer with a lot of irrigation problems -- and I know that
12 that's a maj or issue: I can read that in the paper every.13 week -- I'm just a residential person trying to heat my house
14 in the winter and keep cool in the summer, but I have noticed
15 there's this clockwork trend. For the last 27 years, like
16 every six months I read in the paper: PUC Utility Commission
17 hearing, requested ten- to 12-percent increase, settled six to
18 eight percent. And it's like clockwork. It's like a rubber
19 stamp process.
20 And this is the first time that I've attended one
21 of these hearings to find out why that rubber stamp process.
22 It's almost like -- and I don't want to be personal here, but
23 it's almost like you already know the way it's going to go,.24 you're listening to us just because you have to, and it's going
25 to go that clockwork way anyway and there's not really much I
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1 can do about it or anybody can do it.
2 But my last observation before I step down or
3 listen to you ask me questions is my first impression when I
4 sat down in here and started listening to our first speakers,
5 the first thing that crossed my mind was Occupy Wall Street.
6 There's a thing going on in America: Our recession has been
7 going on long enough, our economy has been hurting long enough,
8 that people are starting to rumble, they're starting to
9 grumble. You know, it's always been complaints about this
10 here, this there, but lately it's -- just seems like it's
11 starting to get more intense. I haven't seen news clips about
12 police and people rioting in America since the '60s. All of a
13 sudden, I'm seeing news clips now that remind me of what I
14 might see in a Middle Eastern country, and it's really
15 saddening, it really makes me sad.
16 So my final observation I just want to pass on to
17 you in spite of the specifics, take heed that the people are
18 starting to feel it. I mean, they're starting to get angry.
19 They don't know exactly who to lash out to all the time, they
20 don't know all the facts to lash out about, but there's this
21 thing happening in America and I don't want to see it go any
22 further. I'd like us to be able to start getting back to some
23 normal democratic conversation on this kind of thing.
24 That's all I really have, if you have any
25 questions.
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.(Applause. )1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
COMMISSIONER KJELLANDER: Thank you, Mr. Hinseth.
Do you have any questions?
Thank you very much for your testimony.
THE WITNESS: Thank you.
(The witness left the stand.)
COMMISSIONER KJELLANDER: Mr. Charles Miller.
9 CHARLES MILLER,
10 appearing as a public witness, being first duly sworn, was
11 examined and testified as follows:.
.
12
13
14
15 BY MR. PRICE:
16 Q.
EXAMINATION
Go ahead and use the mike, sir.
Okay. Is it working?
No, turn it on.
(Indicating. )
There you go. State your name and your address,
Charles Miller, 3560 East 960 North, Menan,
And are you a Rocky Mountain Power customer?
Yes, I am, and have been for 70 years.
115
17 A.
18 Q.
19 A.
20 Q.
21 please.
22 A.
23 Idaho, 83434.
24 Q.
25 A.
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1 Q.Okay. Thank you, sir. Go ahead.
2 THE WITNESS: Okay. How many people here had to
3 drive north to get to the meeting, just show of hands. You
4 guys have insulted us tonight, and I'm sorry, that's just how
5 it is.
6 And this young lady over here, when she asked the
7 questions of Mr. Ziel if he'd read all these different
8 documents and whatnot I tried to read them. They're written
9 so we can't understand them. I was insulted.
10 I've been down to the mines, well, it was Utah
11 Power and Light had at the time, and I thought, my goodness,
12 you can't get any more efficient than this. You have a coal
13 mine on the mountain, you run the coal down a flume to the
14 generating plant, out goes the electricity. You just can't
15 beat that. But I got to take a tour of the mine, and the
16 efficiency of that mine was outrageous. It cost a lot of money
17 for what they were doing. I was delivering mine props, but
18 their trucks were on a maintenance schedule where they replaced
19 all the brakes on the trucks every ten days. The more you
20 spend, the more you make.
21 I'm on Social Security. I haven't got any
22 increases. My health insurance has gone up, my groceries have
23 gone up, the price of gasoline has gone up, the price of
24 propane has gone up, the power bill has gone up. I haven't got
25 any increases.
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1 I have a friend; he has health insurance. He
2 needs a new hip, he can hardly walk, but he still drives truck
3 because he has to buy groceries and pay the power bill. He has
4 to pay a 500 -- or, a $5,000 deductible and then a 20-percent
5 copay after that for his health insurance. I don't think that
6 the -- and I'm not trying to insult the people that work for
7 Rocky Mountain Power, but you guys might consider that on your
8 cost cuts. Their retirements are mighty fine compared to
9 anybody in this room.
10 You quoted a price on the power cost for the
11 where we were seventh to the lowest in the state of Idaho. My
12 power doesn't cost the number that you quoted us.
13 A VOICE: Mine either.
14 THE WITNESS: I think you said 6.4 cents per
15 kilowatt. My power costs a lot more than that.
16 Now, to you gentlemen here, you're representing
17 us. How many people have you heard tonight testify that they
18 wanted an increase in their power rate?
19 I'm sorry, I'm done.20 (Applause. )
21 COMMISSIONER KJELLANDER: Thank you, Mr. Miller.
22 Mr. Miller, let's see if there are any questions. Mr. Miller,
23 let's see if there are any questions. Thank you for remaining
24 at the podium.
25 Are there any questions from Rocky Mountain
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2 MS. HOGLE: I have no questions.
3 MR. PRICE: No questions.
4 COMMISSIONER REDFORD: None.
5 COMMISSIONER KJELLANDER: Thank you, sir, for
6 your testimony.
7 (The witness left the stand.)
8 COMMISSIONER KJELLANDER: Laurie Watson.
9 MS. WATSON: I have no comment at this time.
10 COMMISSIONER KJELLANDER: Thank you for attending
11 thi s evening.
12 Bruce Claunch.
13 MR. CLAUNCH: Does anyone in here need to stand
14 up?
15 VOICES: Yes.
16 MR. CLAUNCH: Go ahead, feel free.
17
18 BRUCE CLAUNCH,
19 appearing as a public witness, being first duly sworn, was
20 examined and testified as follows:
21
22 EXAMINATION
23
24 BY MR. PRICE:
25 Can you state -- go ahead.Q.
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1 Bruce Claunch. I'm from -- I live in Rexburg,A.
2 6191 South 3100 West.
3 A VOICE: Turn the mike on.
4 MR. PRICE: He's got it on.
5 THE WITNESS: It's on.
6 BY MR. PRICE: And are you a Rocky Mountain PowerQ.
7 customer?
8 A.I am.
9 Thank you, sir. Go right ahead.Q.
10 THE WITNESS: In the business that I work in, I
11 like to have a lot of stuff to sell and I like to sell every
12 day and I make a profit, but you know what I found out? If I
13 start charging a whole lot of money, I don't sell anything.
14 And the problem with raising the power rate is just that
15 simple. I don't want to go home, as an American, and sit in my
16 house with no lights on and no heat. I want a lot of heat, I
17 want a lot of cheap power, and that's the way it should be in
18 this country. We've worked as a country and we are owed cheap
19 power.
20 How many in here would like cheap power?
21 VOICES: Yeah.
22 THE WITNESS: Wouldn't the economy go a whole lot
23 better if we had cheap electricity and cheap gasoline?
24 VOICES: Yes.
25 THE WITNESS: You know there's no good reason why
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1 we don't have it? There's not. Government is the reason we
2 don't have cheap power, that's the reason. They want us to be
3 starved from having energy.
4 Wind is stupid. It is. You have to have the
5 whole infrastructure that we've paid for for years so that when
6 the wind doesn't blow -- surprise -- the power grid still is
7 able to provide the power, because it's got to be there day
8 after day. That's called America.
9 Now, my speech is going to take a long time. I
10 hope you all stood up and took a rest, because I'm going to be
11 up here for 45 minutes.
12 THE WITNESS: Keep it short.
13 COMMISSIONER KJELLANDER: Is it Mr. Claunch?
14 THE WITNESS: Claunch, yes.
15 COMMISSIONER KJELLANDER: Would you do us a
16 favor? This is public testimony to develop a record for the
17 case we have before us, and instead of addressing the crowd,
18 could you address us? That would probably be more beneficial.
19 I'd like to have some eye contact with people that talk to us.
20 THE WITNESS: I can appreciate that ~
21 COMMISSIONER KJELLANDER: Thank you.
22 THE WITNESS: Sorry.
23 COMMISSIONER KJELLANDER: Nope, don't be sorry.
24 THE WITNESS: Do any people in this room stop to
25 consider what happens when they go home at night and don't turn
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1 their lights on, don't turn their heat up, but just sit there
2 in the dark and be cold? What happens? Where does the
3 electrici ty go that I'm not using because I can't afford to use
4 it?
5 Well, how about if we try this: How about if we
6 say my power bill is going to go up 16 percent over the next
7 two years, and so I decide that I'm going to decrease my usage
8 accordingly so that my bill doesn't go up and that's what I do.
9 Well, where did the electricity go that I chose not to use?
10 Well, how would it work if I didn't use the
11 power, I cut my usage, and when my bill came, my bill didn't go
12 up but it stayed the same? So in other words, I cut my usage,
13 the power bill rate went up 16 percent, whatever it is, but
14 when I got my bill in the mail it was still the same. How
15 could that possibly work? And, yet, that's what's being done
16 to the people in this country.
17 In October in the state of Illinois, ComEdison
18 tried to push through legislation whereby the ratepayers would
19 pay $3.25 per month for 20 years to pay for a smart grid
20 infrastructure in their rate base. Now, what happens on a
21 smart grid infrastructure is every time the consumer buys an
22 Energy Star product, the product is chipped with a
23 microprocessor. The minute you plug it into the wall after
24 you've taken it home, it communicates with the smart grid,
25 which is just a supercomputer, says "Here I am, I'm plugged in,
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1 awaiting my orders," and that appliance that you bought that
2 you think you own and you can use can be turned off at any
3 time, thereby lowering your power consumption.
4 So, lo and behold, Bruce Baxter here put in smart
5 equipment in his house and the power rates were raised, which
6 I'm afraid is going to happen anyway. When he got his power
7 bill, it hadn't gone up, so how happy was he? And he didn't
8 even stop to think that maybe during the middle of the night
9 his freezer was turned off for three hours, unbeknownst to him,
10 because it was an Energy Star freezer.
11 You might want to ask Rocky Mountain Power if
12 they have PLC. It's a power line carrier signal. It
13 communicates with every Energy Star appliance. If you want to
14 learn about it, get a magazine called Appliance Design it
15 comes out every month nationwide -- and it will tell you
16 exactly what the sinister threats are to the American public
17 wi th the smart grid and with Energy Star.
18 And so the reason that the rates are going to go
19 up is because they want us all to use less so that when we get
20 our bill, we've got less power and the bill didn't go up. And
21 how did they save the power for us? They turned off our
22 appliances, unbeknownst to us.
23 It's not a good thing, but it's public knowledge,
24 everybody knows about it, about power line carrier signal is
25 embedded in the power. It does communicate with the computer.
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1 There are 460 trillion homesi tes available per every -- or,
2 460 billion sites available for every square centimeter of the
3 face of the Earth. They're not going to run out of sites.
4 So I'd just like people to think a little bit
5 about why our power usage wants to be curtailed in America when
6 we need cheap power and we need a lot of it, and are they
7 willing to let that happen. It's not right. It's not right
8 that we don't have cheap power; and it's not right for what
9 it's doing to our economy; and as this gentlemen -- this older
10 gentlemen that was up here said, it's not right what's
11 happening to the individual people.
12 And, by the way, this wasn't a prepared statement
13 and I didn't read any statistics and I probably can't answer
14 any questions, but I'm done.
15 COMMISSIONER KJELLANDER: Mr. Claunch, thank you
16 for your testimony.17 (Applause. )
18 COMMISSIONER KJELLANDER: Let me see if we have
19 any questions.
20 Thank you again for your testimony this
21 evening.
22 THE WITNESS: You're welcome.
23 (The witness left the stand.)
24 COMMISSIONER KJELLANDER: Mr. Doug Fransen.
25
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1 DOUG FRANSEN,
2 appearing as a public witness, being first duly sworn, was
3 examined and testified as follows:
4
5 EXAMINATION
6
7 BY MR. PRICE:
8 Q.Use the mike.
9 A.Okay.
10 Q.Thank you, sir. Please state your name and your
11 address.
12 A. Doug Fransen, 856 East 2400 North, Monteview,
13 Idaho, 83435.
14 Q.And are you a Rocky Mountain Power customer?
15 A.Yes, I am.
16 Q.Thank you, sir. Go right ahead.
17 THE WITNESS: Okay, I -- I wasn't going to get up
18 here, I don't enj oy getting in front of people, it's not one of
19 my more comfortable places to be, but on my way over as I came
20 over and I got to thinking about my experiences with Rocky
21 Mountain and Utah Power, I guess the further north I came, the
22 redder my face got. And, in fact, right now I've got a
23 terrible case of heartburn that I've got going on here.
24.25
Several years ago I had to drill a well out and
so we had to have the power taken to it. There was a total of
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1 about seven poles. They were single phase up to a point and
2 then they had to put in new line. And I took the bid, and it
3 was -- not the bid. I took the price, and it was fine. It
4 wasn't fine, but it was what had to be done. So they came out
5 and started the proj ect. I appreciated what this gentleman
6 said about this coal mine down there and how inefficient it
7 was, because it quite, as far as I'm concerned, carries on to
8 where we are right now even up in this part.
9 We had -- we had this crew come out. They worked
10 on that line for over a week. And in this week, there was --
11 they probably set two poles. Well, it was about the 24th of
12 July and everybody, if they didn't get this line done, was
13 going to have to work during the holiday, so in about a day and
14 a half they set five lines, hung the wire, and was ready to go.
15 But these people when they came out -- we're
16 about 45 miles from Rexburg. They sent the crews out, they get
17 there at about, oh, close to ten 0' clock, because immediately
18 when they got there, they immediately pulled out their Thermos
19 bottles and had their refreshments. Okay, so then they would
20 work from about 10: 30 on, till about noon. Then they'd take
21 their break. And then they would start to work a little after
22 1: 00 and they would work until about 2: 30, then they would pull
23 out the Thermos bottles again and eat the donuts and do that.
24 Then by three 0' clock, they had to start cleaning up so as that
25 they could be back in Rexburg by four 0' clock so as they could
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1 leave the office or the facility out there by five 0' clock. So
2 they would work probably three, maybe three and a half hours a
3 day on the proj ect.
4 Well, I pretty well got over that, and then this
5 year I had a neighbor and he had to put in a pivot. He had
6 single phase to it, but he had to had to have it redone to
7 the estimate was $46,000.three phased. So the bid on that
8 The actual bid came in at $55,000. They negotiated down to
9 about $51,000.
10 So they send the crew out, and it's the same
11 thing. It's the same thing. They work about three hours a day
12 and then back they go.
13 Now, my neighbor, they was ready to put the
14 equipment in on this pivot, so he was -- he's quite a gentleman
15 but he was livid, so he calls over and they immediately send
16 out another crew. Well, this crew was ready to go, and they
17 did in just a very, very few days what the other crew had spent
18 days and days at.
19 He would drive by. They would be in their
20 pickup, they'd be having the air conditioners on, they was
21 under the shade trees. They was doing whatever was quite
22 comfortable at the time.
23 I think about this. These are good people. I'm
24 not going to belittle the people, I'm going to belittle the
25 management. I think that Utah Power or Rocky Mountain Power,
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.1 if any business that wasn't guaranteed a nine percent rate or
2 profi t on their investment would absolutely have to -- they
3 couldn't do it, they would be broke. I can guarantee you my
4 operation would have been broke pretty near before it even got
5 started.
6 They've got some good people. We've got a couple
7 of troubleshooters that are excellent people, they earn their
8 money. These linemen, they're not bad people. The only
9 problem is that they're not expected to produce. And I would
10 really like to know what the production and management ratio is
lIon that deal, the labor and the production ratio is, because
12 it's got to be pathetic..13 And that's the way I feel and that's my song, and
14 I guess I'm going to stick to it. We've seen it out there, and
15 if it's that way allover, it's no wonder you don't -- it's a
16 wonder you're even in business. This isn't a government
17 enti ty, because the government entities right now, they're
18 going to be in trouble and this thing is coming down to the
19 same. We have got to get more efficient and it's not right
20 that they're not. It's just sad.
21 I appreciated this gentleman's comments so much
22 on this coal mine, because that's how it is and it's how it is
23 right down to the actual production, the actual point of
24 reception of this power..25 I think it's sad and I think it's a little bit
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1 sorry that they should even have the nerve to come. And we all
2 come here with the idea that, hey, it's already a done deal.
3 You know, why are we even here? Because that's what -- seems
4 like that's the way they will come with the 15, they will take
5 a 12, they'll take a ten, they will take an eight. Okay, and
6 next year, here we are; it's just like they have said, here are
7 these people. And it's not right. It's just not right,
8 especially not at this time, it just isn't.
9 This deal, these power bills that these farms --
10 now, we've got farms it's $120 an acre just for the power, and
11 when this thing gets settled down and gets back to normalcy,
12 it's hard to say what's going to happen on that deal.
13 I guess that's all I had to say.
14 COMMISSIONER KJELLANDER: Thank you, Mr. Fransen.
15 (Applause. )
16 COMMISSIONER KJELLANDER: Let's see if there are
17 any questions.
18 Mr. Fransen, thank you for your testimony.
19 (The witness left the stand.)
20 COMMISSIONER KJELLANDER: Let me call now Robert
21 Schwart z .
22
23
24
25
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1 ROBERT SCHWARTZ,
2 appearing as a public witness, being first duly sworn, was
3 examined and testified as follows:
4
5 THE WITNESS: Robert Schwartz, 501 --
6 COMMISSIONER KJELLANDER: Wait a minute.
7 THE WITNESS: I have a built-in microphone, but I
8 think you can hear me anyway.
9 Robert Schwartz, 501 Maple Drive, Rexburg, Idaho,
10 83440.
11
12 EXAMINATION
13
14 BY MR. PRICE:
15 Q.And are you a Rocky Mountain Power customer?
16 A.I don't have another choice.
17 Q.Thank you, sir. Go ahead.
18 THE WITNESS: Rocky Mountain Power, such an
19 innocuous name. Of course, it must be a local company, or
20 perhaps regional. There are people I know who work for Rocky
21 Mountain Power, and they are good folks; and in all
22 seriousness, they are. Our beef is not with them but with the
23 real owners of the so-called public utility.
24.25
It is not owned by the public but is owned by
investors, most of whom don't live in the area served. Most,
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1 if not all, of the owners want to have a rate increase; of
2 course, only for altruistic purposes. Like the wolf in Little
3 Red Riding Hood in response to a child's question about big
4 eyes, "The better to see you with, my dear."The wolf only
5 wanted to be able to see the child better to discern which
6 parts of the child could be eaten most quickly to satisfy the
7 insatiable nagging hunger.
8 The difference between Rocky Mountain Power and
9 the big bad wolf is interesting. Rocky Mountain Power is worse
10 than the big bad wolf.
11 Why? How many lawyers, accountants, advertising
12 people did Rocky Mountain Power hire? Oh, the cost of hiring
13 not only included salaries for the work performed, but lodging,
14 meals, and travel costs were in addition.
15 But, I almost forgot, who paid for these costs?
16 Ah, now I see, how silly of me. Each investor was assessed a
17 surcharge to cover these legitimate business expenses.
18 They weren't? Ah, now it's clear. There is no
19 such thing as an illegitimate business expense, and yet the
20 investors didn't pay a surcharge. Well, that is like requiring
21 a chicken in a hen house to pay for her own feed, to the good
22 fox naturally, so that she, the hen, would be more delicious
23 and fatter for the good fox to eat.
24 Everyone can see things from the fox's point of
25 view; it's perfectly logical, although not true.
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1 Did you like that bit of poetry?
2 And, furthermore, there is nothing worse tasting
3 than a skinny chicken, let me tell you.
4 But like all chickens, we want to pay our fair
5 share; "fair" is the latest political correctness word in the
6 air.
7 Rocky Mountain Power thinks we're chickens and
8 will pay for our feed, but not to the point where we'll bleed.
9 They raise the price of feed exorbitantly high,
10 knowing full well we cannot buy.
11 And so they respond in a most magnanimous way:
12 They lower their price, or so they say,
13 To a level at which they originally thought, the
14 chicken feed could be bought.
15 And then they promise a year or two pause, when
16 once again with sharpened claws,
17 They will appear before our eyes, much to our
18 surprise,
19 But dressed so humbly in dark blue, to collect
20 from us their delayed due.
21 You see, we chickens, too dumb to cluck, cluck,
22 cluck, with Rocky Mountain Power, stuck, stuck, stuck.23 (Applause. )
24 COMMISSIONER KJELLANDER: Mr. Schwartz --
25 Any questions?
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1 MR. PRICE: I don't have a question, but I just
2 want to express how much I enj oyed his comments, and I can't
3 wai t to read them on the transcript.
4 COMMISSIONER KJELLANDER: Okay, thank you.
5 (The witness left the stand.)
6 COMMISSIONER KJELLANDER: We've completed the
7 first list, and I realize that many of you have been sitting.
8 I believe there are restrooms out there. I'm not going to take
9 a formal break, because if I break for ten minutes
10 A VOICE: It will be an hour.
11 COMMISSIONER KJELLANDER: So I've been accused of
12 having iron pants before, and so we're just going to charge
13 through. But feel free, if you need to get up and use the
14 facili ties, to do so. And, again, we appreciate your presence
15 tonight.
16 And again as a reminder, if anybody who wanted to
17 testify and didn't or passed earlier or should leave before we
18 call your name, there will be an opportunity for a telephonic
19 conference on the 19th of this month, and we'll have the
20 details -- I believe they are available here tonight. They're
21 also available from the Public Utilities Commission Web site.
22 And we'll also be taking written testimony
23 between now and December 19th.
24 So you'll still have plenty of opportunities to
25 get your comments before the Commission and part of the record.
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1 I'm going to call now Mr. Howard McDonald.
2
3 HOWARD McDONALD,
4 appearing as a public witness, being first duly sworn, was
5 examined and testified as follows:
6
7 THE WITNESS: I'm Howard McDonald. I live at
8 892 North Twin Butte Road, Menan, Idaho.
9
10 EXAMINATION
11
12 BY MR. PRICE:
13 Q.And are you a Rocky Mountain Power customer?
14 A.I am.
15 Q.Thank you, sir. Go right ahead.
16 THE WITNESS: I have a -- probably want to
17 address most of my comments to the Commission and I see Mack
18 got up to use the rest room, but that's all right, we'll go on
19 without him.
COMMISSIONER KJELLANDER: It would be a long ride
21 home. I'll keep him posted.
22 THE WITNESS: First of all, you know, I want you
23 to recognize, you know, that a lot of the people in this room
24.25
or I'm going to say most of them are either people on limited
incomes such as Social Security probably, or farmers and
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1 ranchers. And the farmers and ranchers, of course, pay a lot
2 higher power bills than, you know, the retired people and stuff
3 like that, but yet the retired people probably on a per-income
4 basis probably hurt just as bad as the large producers do.
5 I have been in the residence that I live in since
6 1973, so that's quite a few years. I am a retired person,
7 semi-retired because I still have to work to pay -- offset the
8 bills and retirement. My power bills in the last six or seven
9 years have gone up from about 65 or $70 a month to I'm on level
10 pay now of $195 a month. And I believe when I read that Rocky
11 Mountain Power was going to take over from Utah Power and Light
12 and buy them out, I heard several statements being made that
13 our power bills would be reduced, which it hasn't happened.
14 I am also an investor and I've invested in
15 different energy companies, one which is Enron. Are you
16 familiar with Enron?
17 A VOICE: That's a cuss word.
18 COMMISSIONER KJELLANDER: That is a name we don't
19 speak out loud.
20 THE WITNESS: Pardon?
21 COMMISSIONER KJELLANDER: I've heard of them.
22 THE WITNESS: Yeah, okay. The reason I want to
23 bring that up, because I think a lot of people in here didn't
24 really understand what happened at Enron.
25 Enron was a big, huge energy company, and what
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1 they did was they traded and brokered power to states like
2 California, Arizona, Texas, and everything else. And they had
3 guys sitting at their desks on the phones, trading power all
4 the time, selling power -- buying it here and selling it over
5 here to California and everything. Well, they were making a
6 lot of money doing this, and pretty soon they thought they
7 could make more money by calling up some of the power plant
8 operators and stuff in California and having them have
9 breakdowns or telling them their grids were overexposed and
10 stuff like this. So they caused false power shortages to raise
11 power bills for people in California and got the companies --
12 or, the cities and the states and stuff like that to contract
13 for large amounts of power for exorbitant prices.
14 So, this has probably been about the same time
15 that Warren Buffett got interested in getting into the power
16 business, because I understand that after he bought Rocky
17 Mountain Power he started building transmission lines, you
18 know, to service California and to service Oregon and some of
19 these states that were having to pay these high, exorbitant
20 bills from the power. And, of course, most of these states got
21 their utilities contracts rescinded because of the fact that
22 the power was way overinflated.
23 Being an investor, it's the responsibility of the
24 Company to build the infrastructure necessary to create the
25 business. In other words, for an example, as a power company,
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.1 it's their investors that need to raise the money in the
2 private sector to fund the power plant, to fund the
3 transmission lines, to serve us the power, and to deliver the
4 power to our doors. In return, those investors are supposed to
5 get a reasonable return on their investment for building the
6 power lines, for building the power plants, and producing the
7 power to its customers. It's not, as the last gentleman said
8 here, for the customers to pay for the infrastructure costs.
9 And that's the way capitalism has always been in this country
10 until maybe the last ten years or so.
11 And -- also -- excuse me, I've lost my train of
12 thought here..13 Windmills, you know, you've heard a lot of
14 negati ve talk about windmills here, and that's another thing,
15 the cost of these windmills. The only reason that the
16 windmills were ever built in the first place was because there
17 was so much subsidy for the windmills: Government subsidies,
18 the tax -- what they call tax credits. You would get a couple
19 of billion dollars worth of tax credits from the Federal
20 government if you go out here and put a bunch of windmills on
21 the hill. So a lot of these companies that have gone out and
22 put these windmills on these hills, they have turned around and
23 sold these companies and these windmills, and they sold the tax
24 credi ts to go with them to big companies that have tax.25 deductions or have big incomes that they need to write off
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.1 against these tax deductions.
2 Now, I don't have -- I didn't bring with me
3 tonight any proof to back these statements up, but I'm sure
4 that you can find this very easily on the Internet or anyplace
5 else about what I'm saying here.
6 It's not -- basically the point I'm trying to
7 make here is it's not the customer' s responsibility to build
8 the plants, build the infrastructures, and deliver the power to
9 the customer. It's the investor's responsibility to do that,
10 and then get a reasonable return off of their investment, not a
11 overexorbitant amount but a reasonable return.
12 I've been a small business man all my life, and.13 what's a reasonable return on an investment? Maybe five or six
14 percent. Then guess who's the last one to ever get paid as a
15 small business owner: It's the owner of the business. We're
16 the last ones. After we pay all our bills -- our power bill,
17 our advertising bills, our phone bills, our employees' help and
18 everything -- if there's anything left over, that's ours. And,
19 you know what, mine's been a heck of a lot less than six
20 percent over the last ten years.
21 And I believe that's about all I have to say, and
22 if you have any questions, I'll try to answer.
23 COMMISSIONER KJELLANDER: Thank you,.24 Mr. McDonald. We'll see if we have some questions.
25 (Applause. )
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1 COMMISSIONER KJELLANDER: Thank you again for
2 your testimony.
3 (The witness left the stand.)
4 COMMISSIONER KJELLANDER: I'd like to call now
5 Linda Howell.
6
7 LINDA HOWELL,
8 appearing as a public witness, being first duly sworn, was
9 examined and testified as follows:
10
11 THE WITNESS: Do I have to turn this on?
12 COMMISSIONER KJELLANDER: Yes. There's a little
13 slide.
14 THE WITNESS: Did that get it?
15
16 EXAMINATION
17
18 BY MR. PRICE:
19 Q.Please state your name and your address.
A.Linda Howell, and I'm at P.O. Box 175, Chester,
21 Idaho.
22
23
24.25
A VOICE: Turn your mike on.
MR. PRICE: It's on.
Q.BY MR. PRICE: And are you a Rocky Mountain Power
customer?
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1 Yes, we have a farm in South Saint Anthony thatA.
2 we are a customer for.
3 Q.Okay.
4 THE WITNESS: First of all, we are -- our home is
5 in Chester so we are with the Fall River Co-op, electric co-op,
6 and so I have the unique opportunity to compare service. The
7 Rocky Mountain Power Company service is terrible compared to --
8 and I am directing that directly at you, Commissioners, because
9 I have the opportunity to compare them. We have the power off
10 and on all the time in South Saint Anthony, and I know that
11 because we have the lights flashing when I go down there. So,
12 that leads me to the second thing:
13 What we want is transparency. We want to know
14 why the rates are going up. I see nothing in the settlement
15 that details that. I see in the first part of that
16 And I'd like to make another comment: Exhibits
17 and dependencies are excluded so I cannot refer to them, so I
18 have to make assumptions, and if I'm wrong, I apologize.
19 Number one, Notice of Settlement, $17 million a
20 year for two years, 7.8 percent first year, 7.2 second year.
21 Go down to power costs. Why is the power cost by
22 total company? I can do nothing with that information. $1.2
23 billion doesn't tell me where this 17 million in revenue that
24 they're requesting comes from.
25 Secondly, in number four, power costs, they are
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1 able to break out the Idaho credit. They surely can break out
2 the Idaho power cost, and that's what we're interested in.
3 I'm going to flip over to the other items.
4 Number 14: "The parties will defer depreciation
5 of this power line for three years." That means it's almost
6 guaranteed three years from now, these deferred costs are going
7 to be a new added cost to us and included in the power cost. I
8 think we should know if that's correct.
9 And is this Populus to Terminal line, is that the
10 main line that's connecting the power grids? I don't know. I
11 can't -- and I think, as the Utility Commissioners, you need to
12 gi ve your ratepayers more information so that we do know what
13 this is and is this the grid that's bringing the wind power
14 down to California.
15 Power is fungible. You don't take power that's
16 produced out of Bonneville Power Authority and we get it. It's
17 fungible. You have a grid and you direct that power wherever.
18 And I think we, as Idaho ratepayers, need to know you, as
19 Commissioners, where they are getting their cost structure. I
20 don't think we should pay for Utah cost or Oregon cost or the
21 rest of Rocky Mountain cost. You have an overhead cost, and
22 like any cost management service, you can budget that and put
23 it into our rate base and let us know.
24 Secondly, this really alarms me: "The parties
25 will work to establish a hedging limits work group." We will
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1 work to it? Whereas, it looks to me like Idaho -- I mean, Utah
2 and Oregon have one. Is this rate base increase because they
3 blew out their hedging? I think we have a right to know.
4 And, furthermore, Mr. Hill, maybe we do need a
5 consumer advocacy group. I think this hedging limit work group
6 should have been established years ago. Utah has one, Oregon
7 has one. We're not even going to do it until 2013.
8 Lastly, I think we should have the opportunity to
9 have access to the annual results of operations report that is
10 given to the Commission, because you are owned by Berkshire
11 Hathaway, ultimately. I think we, as ratepayers, need to know
12 the details of that.
13 And, unfortunately, folks, I think we need to
14 read the fine print: "This Stipulation does not prohibit the
15 Company from revising rates due to the ECAM, which will still
16 occur April 1st of each year." I read that to believe that
17 fuzzy math over here that gives me total company only is going
18 to allow them to increase the rate every April. Again, I
19 wonder who is the advocacy group here. When you
20 And I'll be -- I'll fully disclaim I own
21 Berkshire Hathaway stock.
22 However, when you read a financial analyst's
23 report on most utility regulated companies, it boils down to
24 three things, rate increase is three things: Power cost; your
25 relationship -- the power company's relationship with the rate
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1 utili ty setters; and then, secondly -- lastly is customer
2 service. And I've already stated what I think of the customer
3 service.
4 And I just want to close in clarifying one issue:
5 As a monopoly -- and I agree with the ability to have a
6 monopoly; you are a regulated entity and I appreciate that. I
7 don't want to have five rows of power lines on Highway 20 for
8 competing power companies, so I grant you that. We do want one
9 power company, but we wanted to be treated fairly, and there is
10 nothing in here that gives me any indication of why a
11 15-percent increase has been warranted, and I think that's
12 what -- that's all we want to know. And where in the
13 Stipulation is the incentive to reduce cost?
14 Thank you.
15 (Applause. )
16 COMMISSIONER KJELLANDER: Do you have any
17 questions?
18 MS. HOGLE: No questions.
19 COMMISSIONER KJELLANDER: Thank you for your
20 testimony.
21 (The witness left the stand.)
22 COMMISSIONER KJELLANDER: I would like to call
23 now Sharon Wal tes. Sharon Wal tes.
24 Wade Christensen.
25
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1 WADE CHRISTENSEN,
2 appearing as a public witness, being first duly sworn, was
3 examined and testified as follows:
4
5 THE WITNESS: I'm a Rocky Mountain Power
6 customer.
7
8 EXAMINATION
9
10 BY MR. PRICE:
11 Q.Okay.
12 A.You usually ask that.
13 Can you state your name and your address as well?Q.
14 Wade Christensen. I live at 769 North 1100 East,A.
15 Shelley, Idaho.
16 Q.Go right ahead.
17 THE WITNESS: Okay. Thanks for having a forum
18 where we can come and talk. We appreciate that, that you guys
19 would come and do that for us.
20 My concern and the reason I came tonight is we
21 live in a great place, and welcome to Southeast Idaho. It's a
22 great valley to live in. And as a lot of people have said,
23 we're not a rich area. We're prosperous in that we're blessed
24.25
to live here, but it's really hard for our towns, our
communi ties, our small businesses to absorb the increasing
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1 power rates. And I really don't want to give them any more of
2 my money.
3 You know, we -- this is just more to give a
4 little background as far as the parent company to Rocky
5 Mountain Power is MidAerican Energy Holdings, which is the
6 second largest owner/operator of renewable energy or wind
7 energy in the country. And if you know a little bit about
8 that, if you've done any research too, for every wind turbine
9 that's built, we pay about 65 percent of the capital cost of
10 construction as taxpayers with Federal subsidies, tax
11 incentives, cash grants. Thirty percent cash grant is huge.
12 And so we give them quite a bit already, and I really don't
13 want to give them any more of my money.
14 You know, an interesting this kind of fell
15 right at the right time. I'm glad you said it. We're talking
16 about Warren Buffett a little bit, and in the Bloomberg News
17 just yesterday he had a great quote that said that the best
18 reason to invest in -- when -- you invest in utility companies
19 not to get rich, but to stay rich. So I think that's quite
20 what we know they're about, so I really don't think any more of
21 our money.
22 Now, the thing that worries me is if it was one
23 increase, if it was just some of the cost of doing business, I
24 wouldn't be so worried; but if you look at their integrated
25 resource plan from 2011, page 78, is they have a $6 billion
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1 investment plan that they quote. It states that PacifiCorp' s
2 transmission investment analysis indicated that supporting
3 incremental wind additions of over 500 megawatts in the
4 PacifiCorp West control area require on the order of 1.5
5 million in new transmission -- billion in new transmission
6 facilities.
7 From what I understand, this would be in addition
8 to the six billion mentioned already. So it's not going to be
9 the first rate increase they ask for. It's going to keep
10 coming, it's going to keep coming, it's going to keep coming.
11 So if we give this to them now to start this whole transmission
12 process -- of which I feel like we get no benefit as residents
13 of this area -- it's just going to keep coming. When do we
14 say, "Stop, we're not going to do it anymore," with them?
15 Just to clarify one thing: This is a e-mail that
16 I received from a member of Idaho Public Utilities Commission,
17 and there was no mention of wind supposedly in this rate
18 increase. And his comments said -- he says: I have spent this
19 afternoon very quickly reviewing the testimony provided by
20 Rocky Mountain Power in this rate case. You can also read it
21 by going to our Web site.
22 And he references that. So it's public
23 information. And this was given by President Rich Walje, and
24 he outlines what these costs are for. He says: In this case,
25 the Company claims that 17 million of their total 32. 7 million
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1 revenue requirement increase comes from net power supply costs.
2 These include the expiration of a number of long-term wholesale
3 power contracts with newer high-cost contracts; increased coal
4 costs not from coal generation but from third-party coal
5 supply, and transportation and cost increases at the operations
6 of the mines themselves; a decline in wholesale sales revenues
7 due to falling natural gas prices; more capacity from thermal
8 units needed to provide reserves for wind generation; wind
9 integration costs for wholesale transmission customers as
10 required by Federal law.
11 And so that's -- I think that's incorrect, the
12 information we were given on that.
13 They also come down and he states that the
14 Company's requesting that 27 percent of investment in the
15 Populus to Terminal transmission line that the Commission did
16 not include in the last rate case, plus another 150 million
17 system-wide in transmission investment.
18 And so when I read that sentence, it kind of
19 sounds like they didn't really plan well. And we've talked a
20 lot about that tonight. That burden shouldn't be on us, as
21 ratepayers. They should have planned this out a little bit
22 before they started asking for all our money. If they didn't
23 have the money to do what they wanted to do, they shouldn't be
24 asking us for it.
25 Now just in conclusion, the area where I live,
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1 our school is on Rocky Mountain Power as well. Our school just
2 had to let a lot of teachers go. There's no more money coming
3 from the State of Idaho. And so as these power rates go up, my
4 school has to absorb that cost.
5 In Idaho Falls, one school district is on Idaho
6 Falls Power, who has much cheaper power rates; another school
7 district is on Rocky Mountain Power. I do not know how we
8 expect to have the quality school if we can't account for that.
9 Every year there's going to be rate increases, and my school's
10 cost is going to go up and my kids' education is going to
11 suffer because of that.
12 And so I think you should decline their request
13 for rate increase.
14 COMMISSIONER KJELLANDER: Thank you,
15 Mr. Christensen.16 (Applause. )
17 COMMISSIONER KJELLANDER: Do we have any
18 questions?
19 MS. HOGLE: I have no questions.
20 COMMISSIONER KJELLANDER: Thank you again for
21 your testimony.
22 (The witness left the stand.)
23 COMMISSIONER KJELLANDER: I'd like to call I
24 think it's Frank Steeg (phonetic).
25 MR. STEES: Stees.
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1 COMMISSIONER KJELLANDER: Stees.
2
3 FRANK STEES,
4 appearing as a public witness, being first duly sworn, was
5 examined and testified as follows:
6
7 THE WITNESS: Frank Stees, 11018 East 145 North,
8 Rigby, Idaho.
9
10 EXAMINATION
11
12 BY MR. PRICE:
13 Q.And are you a Rocky Mountain Power Company?
14 A.Defini tely.
15 Q.Thank you, sir. Go right ahead.
16 THE WITNESS: Okay. I only have a few comments
17 here, and I'm 69 years old, just retired this last November,
18 and I'm on a fixed income. I retired from the Idaho National
19 Lab, and contrary to what some might believe, the retirement
20 isn't very good.
21 I spent 12 years there as a certified auditor.
22 I've listened to a whole lot of details here and I've dealt
23 wi th this kind of stuff. I've heard people talk about fuzzy
24.25
math and I've heard them talk about not being able to
understand things. Twel ve years as an auditor, I spent a lot
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1 of time looking at hundreds of people in middle management
2 whose job was to make things look good on paper.
3 To give you an idea, back in the '90s when
4 Lockheed was there and they walked away from their contract,
5 they worked on what they called the CPAF -- cost plus award
6 contract. They walked away with a $3 million bonus.fee
7 And as an auditor, having looked at those things that they were
8 talking about, I noticed that about a third of those things
9 they claimed were done were not done.
10 Now, I've listened to a lot of the details here,
11 and I thought it would be interesting and maybe revealing to
12 audi t Rocky Mountain Power, their processes and their
13 management.
14 (Applause. )
15 THE WITNESS: But that's not -- that's not my
16 responsibilities.
17 So I want to get down to a few basic things here.
18 Basically, what are we here for?
19 We're here, trying to figure out where all these
20 costs are coming from. And like I said, I've watched how
21 people think up all these items: Some of them get real
22 inventi ve. But where does it actually come from? Some bad
23 decisions were made, investments.
24 Many of us have invested in the past in the stock
25 market. If you invest in the market and you make a bad
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1 decision, you take your lumps. The last few years, nobody
2 wants to do that. They want guarantees. We've seen that with
3 the bailout of the banks and the auto companies, and this
4 appears to be the same thing: Some investments were made, poor
5 decisions, and they want a guarantee on their investment, they
6 want us to make it up, which is absolutely wrong.
7 That gets right down to the root cause of what's
8 going on here. On top of it, we look at what we're doing here.
9 We're using the resources in Idaho -- and we have all run up
10 against this before where they have tried to transport a lot of
11 our resources like the water out to the West Cost. They have
12 tried to take our resources. The same thing here, use our
13 resources to produce power for elsewhere. The funny thing is,
14 they're using our resources and they're wanting us to pay more
15 on top of it. What's wrong with this picture?
16 That's all I've got.
17 (Applause. )
18 COMMISSIONER KJELLANDER: Do we have any
19 questions?
20 MR. PRICE: No.
21 COMMISSIONER KJELLANDER: Thank you again for
22 your testimony.
23 (The witness left the stand.)
24 COMMISSIONER KJELLANDER: I'd like to call now
25 Irven Hill.
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1 IRVEN HILL,
2 appearing as a public witness, being first duly sworn, was
3 examined and testified as follows:
4
5 EXAINATION
6
7 BY MR. PRICE:
8 Q.Go ahead, use the mike.
9 I'm Irven Hill, and I live at 407 North 4083 EastA.
10 in Rigby, Idaho. And, yes, I am a Rocky Mountain Power
11 customer--
12 Q.Very good.
13 -- at a few properties.A.
14 THE WITNESS: I guess I appreciate the gentlemen
15 that came up tonight and pointed out the inefficiencies of
16 Rocky Mountain Power. If there is a model of inefficiency in
17 this area with power, it's Rocky Mountain Power.
18 I'm an excavation contractor and I work with all
19 the power companies around the area -- Idaho Falls Power, Rural
20 Electric up north from Ashton, Fall River, whatever they call
21 them, Idaho Power, and the different power companies -- and
22 I've seen their inefficiency in action. You know, and early in
23 the meeting it was brought up, you know, that they have made
24 their efficiency 30 percent more efficient and everything like
25 that, and, you know, statistics and things like that, but in
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.1 the real world application, it just doesn't happen. It's--
2 like I say, they're a model of inefficiency.
3 But the point of the comments tonight need to be
4 that we don't need a power increase, and I don't feel like we
5 do.
6 But I have to take issue with some of the people
7 who say, Well, you know, we need monopolies and we need this
8 and we need that and we need all of this government
9 intervention because there would be chaos and blah, blah. I
10 don't buy into that. And the reason that Rocky Mountain Power
11 wants to increase their prices and the reason that any
12 government monopoly wants to do that is because they have the.13 costs at this table, they've got the costs all around through
14 government intervention, and that's what they're paying for.
15 So it's just -- it's a frustrating deal, and I don't believe
16 that they -- I don't believe that we should be following this
17 crony capitalist idea where you can get in with the government,
18 you can have the government create a monopoly, and then you
19 have all the regulators to pay for and provide all these jobs
20 to bureaucrats and things like that. And that's what it's come
21 down to. That's why the power is going to increase.
22 I don't feel like it really matters what we say
23 or what the customers do, because we're not customers.
24 McDonald's has customers, Wal-Mart has customers, Ace Hardware.25 has customers. Rocky Mountain Power doesn't have customers,
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1 they have victims. They have people who live here --
2 (Applause. )
3 THE WITNESS: -- and they have to be on Rocky
4 Mountain Power.
5 So, I mean, I say deregulate and get rid of the
6 regulations on it. And if we've got to have competition, I
7 mean, competition didn't hurt the cell phone industry, doesn't
8 hurt McDonald's.
9 And the, you know, paying for things like
10 customer efficiency and things like that, I'm sure Burger King
11 would love it if McDonald's came in and said, "Oh, we're going
12 to start charging people an extra dollar on their meal to
13 encourage there to be less fast food." There goes Burger King
14 up to number one.
15 It's stupid, it's an idiotic business plan, and I
16 think people are tired of the government intervention that
17 causes those kind of things to be done.18 (Applause. )
19 COMMISSIONER KJELLANDER: Thank you, Mr. Hill.
20 Any questions?
21 Thank you again for your testimony.
22 (The witness left the stand.)
23 COMMISSIONER KJELLANDER: Representative
24 JoAn Wood.
25
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1 REPRESENTATIVE JoAN WOOD,
2 appearing as a public witness, being first duly sworn, was
3 examined and testified as follows:
4
5 THE WITNESS: And I am a Rocky Mountain customer.
6 COMMISSIONER REDFORD: Thank you.
7 MR. PRICE: Can you use the microphone for us,
8 please? Thanks.
9 THE WITNESS: In behalf of the concerned citizens
10 who have contacted me as your State Representative --
11 A VOICE: Is it on?
12 THE WITNESS: Is it not turned on? There.
13 -- in Legislative District 35, my request is that
14 you not grant the requested rate increase proposed by Rocky
15 Mountain Power Utility. I represent six counties and 28 small
16 municipali ties. They are struggling with power costs.
17 I realize this is an investor-owned public
18 utility. The patrons that are served have no recourse for
19 their electric service. They do have a voice through our Idaho
20 Public Utili ties Commission for protection. They must rely on
21 you.
22 Last year, rate increases for all of the
23 Utilities requesting were granted although not in the full
.24 amount in all cases. I realize that Idaho law allows a certain
25 amount of expenses for expansion to be asked for. I would like
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1 to remind the PUC that this is a public service business, and
2 as such, requires justification for increasingly promoting rate
3 increases. That should be looked at carefully as the
4 Commission presently does. However, there is nothing in the
5 law that demands or requires the PUC to support the no risk to
6 the investors, no guarantee that they do not have to also bear
7 the burden of business expansion, as does every other business.
8 There is no new businesses coming to District 35.
9 One reason is electric rates. There is no -- the farming
10 economy is crucial to District 35 and is very adversely
11 affected by these rate increases.
12 I will cite a study that was presented to the
13 legislators this day by the Seventh District Court Assistance
14 Office. It shows the increased poverty statistics in a
15 ten-county area of Southeastern Idaho. And I do have copies
16 I will submit too. It shows that from 2008 at 57 percent of
17 people who visited the office below the poverty level; to 2009,
18 66 percent; and 2010, 72 percent. That's 125 percent and
19 below. The averages there I will submit to you, rather than
20 speak of those now.
21 I would also like to cite senior citizens on
22 fixed incomes who have called and told me they always wear a
23 sweater, jacket, or coat in their home daily in the fall and
24 winter months; and when they sit, it is with a blanket over
25 their legs. That is unconscionable. They are afraid. That is
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1 also unconscionable. They must choose between food,
2 medication, travel, and keeping warm in their home, which is
3 essential for them to keep from being sick.
4 I think a public service monopoly must be called
5 on to deal with small business impacts on those that are barely
6 existing. Our economic future is based on several issues that
7 the general public have little say in.
8 I would like to talk about when full electric
9 power homes were touted to the people in this area, how
10 wonderful that was going to be to have all-electric homes, and
11 many of us bought into that as a wonderful, cost-effective,
12 efficient bargain. Now we can say with honesty it is not a
13 bargain as marketed.
14 But the legislature has stood to help the
15 Utili ties with the Federal government licensing protocol in
16 hydropower dams and their increasing capacities with other
17 Federal agencies. They have done that for the good of the
18 people that the Utilïties serve -- I want to emphasize
19 "serve" -- not investors, but customers. The legislature
20 should expect those contracts with Idaho that were designated
21 in a protected area for each of the Utilities to reciprocate,
22 to help the legislature, as we have tried to represent and take
23 care of our people in our legislative district in Idaho.
24 To the question of the wind power impacting the
25 rates, little is said of how many of those wind power
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1 generators are owned by these electric utili ties, who then use
2 their Federal subsidies to include their own wind power in
3 their capacity to generate electricity.
4 I am requesting action by the Idaho PUC to turn
5 down the requested rate increase, and serve notice that
6 shareholders must bear some sacrifice for the public good and
7 long-time customer protection.
8 And, thank you, sir.
9 COMMISSIONER KJELLANDER: Thank you.
10 (Applause. )
11 COMMISSIONER KJELLANDER: Are there questions?
12 MS. HOGLE: No questions.
13 COMMISSIONER KJELLANDER: Thank you.
14 Thank you.
15 (Public Exhibit No. 703 was marked for
16 identification. )
17 (The witness left the stand.)
18 COMMISSIONER KJELLANDER: I'd like to call now
19 Kaylen Miskin. And I'm sure that I butchered the last name.
20
21 KAYLEN MISKIN,
22 appearing as a public witness, being first duly sworn, was
23 examined and testified as follows:
24
25 THE WITNESS: Actually, you did very well.
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1 EXAMINATION
2
3 BY MR. PRICE:
4 Q.Can you go ahead and state --
5 A.My address my name is Kaylen Miskin.
6 Q.Can you spell that for the court reporter?
7 A.K-A-Y-L-E-N M-I-S-K-I-N. I live at 3609 East 100
8 North in Rigby, Idaho, 83442.
9 THE WITNESS: I want to address some of the myths
10 of the green world that we are being charged with by the
11 government that is costing us a lot of money. And you notice
12 that I did say I would tell the truth, and so you can bank on
13 what I'm going to tell you.
14 Twenty-one years ago, I built a home, and I --
15 the CFLs were just barely coming out. I went out and bought
16 some, put them in my garage. They are still burning today.
17 The ones that I bought the last ten years, I have replaced;
18 and, lately, I am replacing the ones that I bought a couple
19 months ago and they're getting worse and worse and worse.
20 When Utah Power and Light came out with the idea
21 of time of day use, I was one of the very first to learn about
22 it and very first to get on it. None of my neighbors knew
23 anything about it when I started telling them about the kind of
24 power that I was on. And I was encouraged to get on it because
25 my rates were very low compared to those that were on level
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.1 rates, because I would inconvenience myself and Utah Power was
2 able to use power that they were generating instead of having
3 it just go off the grid at night because it wasn't being used.
4 And, now, I am like all these people that have
5 testified: Wearing a blanket when I sit down, waiting until 10
6 or 11 0' clock at night to turn the heat on, not having hot
7 water much of the day, keeping the lights off. My power bill
8 has still gone up. It is twice as high as when I started, and
9 it's only because I go without and I figured other ways to get
10 around Utah Power -- well, Rocky Mountain now -- that I am able
11 to keep the bill so that I can pay it.
12 Warren Buffett is following the Enron model.13 because he knows that, no matter what, his investment will be
14 paid back to him because he is a preferred investor. Common
15 stock investors will lose, just as they did with Enron;
16 Warren Buffett will not, any more than did the preferred
17 investors of Enron.
18 When Obama began his regime, he gloated that by
19 the time he ended his presidency, our power costs would be five
20 times what they are now. They are getting very close to that.
21 They continue on the rise, not just because the IPUC allows
22 them, but they also allow this credit and this additional
23 charge and an additional charge for, what is it called, ICAM or
24 whatever, all of these other things that are beyond IPUC.25 allowing them to do it. And it just keeps rising and rising
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1 and rising. And it's not just once a year. My rates are going
2 up twice a year because of one thing or another. They're
3 figuring their ways around it.
4 I used to negotiate out at the site and I know
5 how it's done. If I want a five-percent increase, I go in
6 asking for a ten-percent increase. I know I'm not going to get
7 it, but they're going to be awful glad to give me that
8 five-percent increase. And the IPUC knows that as well, and
9 they are sitting down at the table and working with them, and
10 you should not be working with them. You should be working
11 against them and telling them "no," and being an advocate for
12 the consumer, not an advocate for Rocky Mountain Power.
13 And that's all I have.
14 (Applause. )
15 COMMISSIONER KJELLANDER: Let me see if there are
16 any questions.
17 Are there any questions?
18 Thank you for your testimony.
19 (The witness left the stand.)
20 COMMISSIONER KJELLANDER: That exhausts the list
21 of people that we had signed up, and if there are others who
22 would like to testify
23 Sir, you had your hand up first. Why don't you
24 come on up.
25
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.1 JIM HIGGINS,
2 appearing as a public witness, being first duly sworn, was
3 examined and testified as follows:
4
5 THE WITNESS: Jim Higgins, 391 South Pine Avenue,
6 Sugar City, 83448. And, yes, I'm a Rocky Mountain Power user.
7 MR. PRICE: Thank you.
8 THE WITNESS: I did not sign up initially. I
9 didn't know what would be covered and didn't want to duplicate.
10 It will a little bit. But I'd like to remove some of the
11 emotion in the part that I say, because we all have that, none
12 of us want it. Even the advertisements about the meetings and.13 so on, Rocky Mountain Power says, Well, we know nobody is going
14 to say they want it. That's -- I don't think that's the issue.
15 The issue is whether it's valid or not.
16 And I did do my own research on some of the
17 aspects that Rocky Mountain Power is presenting as to the
18 reasons for requesting the rate hike. I will try and simplify
19 this and maybe too much, but based on my research and my
20 understanding, when -- part of the proj ect that they are
21 talking about requiring or requesting a rate hike to pay for
22 did originate in Wyoming. The target recipients are in
23 California and Oregon. The lines were to go through the states
24 between, including Idaho, but at the time, there was absolutely.25 no power to be diverted to Idaho. Currently, and the opposite
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1 of what has been inferred -- and it's on paper -- there -- it
2 does have to do with the power lines that were started for that
3 proj ect, the rate increase, but it's being hidden and specified
4 in different ways.
5 If there was a valid need for an increase in
6 power for Eastern Idaho because of expansion needs, because
7 more people are moving in and there's not enough grid system to
8 support that, then, yes, there would be valid reasons to
9 expand. That is not the case. We do not need additional
10 power.
11 And whatever reasons they put down to use to hide
12 the real purpose of the rate hike, it is absolutely invalid to
13 say that Idahoans should pay for that bad investment. Those
14 are simple facts. That's my point: There should be no rate
15 increase because it has nothing to do with Idaho at this point.
16 Thank you.17 (Applause. )
18 COMMISSIONER KJELLANDER: Thank you, Mr. Higgins.
19 Let's see if there are any questions.
20 MS. HOGLE: No questions.
21 COMMISSIONER KJELLANDER: Thank you again for
22 your testimony.
23 THE WITNESS: Thank you.
24 (The witness left the stand.)
25 COMMISSIONER KJELLANDER: Are there others who
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1 would like -- there's a hand.
2
3 ARONLEE GOULD,
4 appearing as a public witness, being first duly sworn, was
5 examined and testified as follows:
6
7 THE WITNESS: I don't know how to turn this on.
8 COMMISSIONER KJELLANDER: There should be a
9 little slide.
10 MR. PRICE: On the side.
11 THE WITNESS: When I was a young girl, I asked --
12
13 EXAMINATION
14
15 BY MR. PRICE:
16 Excuse me. Can you state your name?Q.
17 Oh. My name is Aronlee Gould, A-R-O-N-L-E-EA.
18 G-O-U-L-D. I live at 870 West Fourth North, here in
19 St. Anthony. And, yes, we are.
20 Q. A Rocky Mountain Power customer?
21 Yes. Well, my husband pays the bill, but I am aA.
22 user.
23 Q.Thank you. Go ahead.
24 THE WITNESS: Now, I remember as a kid, I asked
25 my dad, "What is the American dream?"
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1 And my dad said, "The American dream, my dear, is
2 that I would teach you how to obtain what -- more than what I
3 have by good, hard work, loving your family, and being a good
4 citizen."
5 And as I look at my five little grandsons, I pray
6 for that for them too.
7 You see, I have -- I am a daughter, a wife, a
8 mother, and a grandmother. I'm not an investor, I'm not
9 anything really outrageously special, but I have a mother and a
10 father who are very sick. My dad has demacular (sic)
11 degeneration; my mother has stage four breast cancer. They are
12 they are on a fixed income. My mother makes aon a state
13 whole $600 a month, my father $414, because he was a farmer
14 most all of his life.
15 I have two daughters who have five children
16 between the two of them, and they are single parents. And the
17 American dream I see for them is not that they would obtain
18 more than what I have; it is that they will be back in the
19 1800s, living in one room, more than likely that has the oven
20 in it with the oven on, turned up high, and so all bundled
21 together so that they can keep warm. Now, to me, that is not
22 the American dream.
23 Now, it is -- my daughters go to school, they are
24 CNAs, they help other people. They are productive citizens.
25 But I would hate to see my little grandsons grow up thinking
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.1 that the American dream is to have enough food on the table and
2 a warm bed to sleep in. I just, honest to God, I don't think
3 that that is the American dream that we all hoped for our
4 grandchildren.
5 And I am really sad to see that in America, the
6 most prosperous place in America -- or, in the world, and the
7 most blessed country in the world, would be able to not look at
8 people as people instead of customers or kilometers or
9 kilowatts or kilo -- kill-a-paycheck is what it is. And I feel
10 really bad that it is going on this way. I mean, we're still
11 people. People talk about us like we're some sort of ant going
12 from the anthill, back and forth, back and forth, but we're.13 not.
14 And, you know, if the economy was going raging
15 well and this was just before World War II or before the
16 Depression and we were all "eat, drink, and be merry," that
1 7 would be one thing; but this is a hard time. And to ask
18 hard-working, God-fearing, freedom-loving people to put out
19 more and more and more while there are people up in great big,
20 high skyscrapers that say, "Well, I think they should, I think
21 they should," well, I think they should come down and visit my
22 house before they decide how much money they want to take from
23 my table and from my five little grandsons.24 (Applause. ).25 COMMISSIONER KJELLANDER: Let's see if there's
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1 any questions.
2 MR. PRICE: No questions.
3 COMMISSIONER KJELLANDER: Thank you.
4 (The witness left the stand.)
5 COMMISSIONER KJELLANDER: Come on up.
6
7 JEANETTE BROOK,
8 appearing as a public witness, being first duly sworn, was
9 examined and testified as follows:
10
11 THE WITNESS: My name is Jeanette Brook. My
12 address is 3404 North Twenty-fifth East, Idaho Falls, 83401.
13 And I am a Rocky Mountain Power user -- customer.
14 MR. PRICE: Thank you.
15 THE WITNESS: I got into the cell phone industry
16 on the ground floor when they were big, five-pound black bags
17 you carried around. I worked in the computer department. And
18 as a new industry, it was incredibly expensive to be running,
19 so our thoughts at all times were, how can we get the cost
20 down? How can we get the cost down without raising the rates.
21 And I worked in it for ten years. Myself and the
22 people that I worked with in many committees said, This is our
23 goal: We need to do this so it will cost less for us to do
24 what we do so we don't have to raise our rates.
25 And we'd get in that meeting and we'd all look at
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1 each other and say, "This is an impossible idea," but through
2 all these heads we managed to find amazing ways to do things
3 that none of us thought could be done .
4 And in the ten years I was in the industry,
5 everything about it went down in price. Of course, that's
6 because of competition, but it was also because of those 120
7 people that I worked with who were so amazing at saying, "Well,
8 what if," and everyone goes "fwoot" and what if came to pass,
9 and it was monumental.
10 And I know that you have brilliant people working
11 at Rocky Mountain Power, and if it was their goal, they could
12 lower the rates, and they could still provide for the
13 shareholders. Our shareholders were very happy with us and our
14 customers were very happy with us. It is possible.
15 And I expect to see a headline I'm not sure
16 when -- that says this rate was denied. I'm an optimist.
17 Thank you.
18 (Applause. )
19 COMMISSIONER KJELLANDER: Thank you. Are there
20 any questions?
21 Thank you for your testimony.
22 (The witness left the stand.)
23 COMMISSIONER KJELLANDER: Is there anyone else?
24 Sir, come on up.
25
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1 REED CARLILE,
2 appearing as a public witness, being first duly sworn, was
3 examined and testified as follows:
4
5 EXAMINATION
6
7 BY MR. PRICE:
8 Q.Can you turn it on? Go ahead, please state your
9 name and address.
10 A.Read Carlile, 262 East Second South in Rexburg.
11 Q.And are you a Rocky Mountain Power customer?
12 A.I'm not only a customer, I'm an ex-employee.
13 Q.Go right ahead, sir.
14 THE WITNESS: And I'm one of those guys that was
15 out on the crew that that man said we went to work and we
16 normally get off at five o'clock. Now, that's baloney. We got
17 off at 4: 30, but on my face, my face, I got frozen at
18 nighttime, 33-below weather, my hands froze sometimes, and I'm
19 still alive.
20 And I've heard the hydro plants burning on the
21 other end of the line when I've come in contact with a tree
22 that hit the limb -- or, a limb that hit the line, and I've
23 heard the actual and I tasted copper. I've been through it.24 all.
25 But this October, I got a letter from -- I've
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1 heard a lot of words about Warren Buffett. I think I'm
2 beginning to think that he's just like Hitler and taking
3 advantage of the Jews in Germany, because I got this letter in
4 October stating that I was going to be disenrolled from the
5 Power Company's benefit program, and I have to be -- I have
6 more things and I haven't filled out my applications. I
7 thought I had everything done. I got a call, and I called them
8 today and said I have to get the information in by 20th of this
9 month. So I'm frantically trying to get the rest, trying to
10 find out what they want to get this new supplemental
11 prescription pharmacy filled out.
12 But this not only puts a hard cap on me and my
13 wife. It increases my insurance for that, $125 a month for me,
14 109 for my wife. Cost me $47.70 for each of us -- that's
15 $ 95 -- in new insurance costs.
16 And Warren Buffett's taking all that money and
17 putting it in his pocket. And that's the truth. That is
18 exactly the truth. And I'm so disappointed.
19 And I come here this night -- I usually get
20 chills at night. I'm 68 years old and I get chills at night,
21 and I go to bed early. And I could bet you $10,000, each one
22 of you if you want to bet me, you could go in my house right
23 now and my electric water heater in the bathroom that I use is
24 shut off. It never comes on any more than maybe a couple of
25 hours a day.
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1 I don't know, I just worry about this country.
2 What the heck is going to happen to us? And 35 or 40 years ago
3 I thought there will come a time when we have our houses, and
4 then there will be a time come when people will be -- will have
5 such hard times that people will -- families will have to come
6 back and live in their parents' house because they have nothing
7 else to do. I have seen that literally happen. It is
8 happening.
9 So I beg, whatever Warren Buffett -- bless his
10 whole heart of heart -- I don't know, but they have no passion
11 for nobody. I testify to that.
12 That's all I have to say.
13 (Applause. )
14 COMMISSIONER KJELLANDER: Thank you.
15 Are there any questions?
16 Thank you, sir, for your testimony.
17 (The witness left the stand.)
18 COMMISSIONER KJELLANDER: Is there anyone else
19 who would like to testify this evening? Sir, come on up.
20
21 LARRY HUGHES,
22 appearing as a public witness, being first duly sworn, was
23 examined and testified as follows:
24
25 THE WITNESS: Larry Hughes, 3716 East 190 North,
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1 Rigby, Idaho, 83442.
2
3 EXAMINATION
4
5 BY MR. PRICE:
6 And are you a Rocky Mountain Power customer?Q.
7 Not by choice.A.
8 Q.Go right ahead.
9 THE WITNESS: The rates that I've heard quoted,
10 the only ones that I've seen published are in this article, so
11 if we don't have the correct information, don't blame the
12 people here.
13 I have, in the last several years, observed
14 something that really disturbs me in this country: No one
15 seems to think twice about trying to hold costs down; they just
16 pas sit on to the customer.
17 That's the case with government: They need more
18 money.
19 I've written letters to the Jefferson County
20 Commissioners recently over an issue. Just pass the cost on,
21 raise the taxes. Companies, just pass the cost on.
22 My trash collection recently went up by
23 34 percent. I called the company and asked them why. "Well,
24 we're just passing the cost on."
25 No one is trying to look and see if they can save
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1 money or find a better deal somewhere else as long as they can
2 pass it on to their customers.
3 Gentlemen, the customers don't have that luxury.
4 We cannot turn around and pass the costs on to someone else.
5 The buck stops here, and we're the ones that are in the vice,
6 and we're the ones that are looking to you for some justice and
7 relief for a change.
8 Thank you.
9 (Applause. )
10 COMMISSIONER KJELLANDER: Do we have any
11 questions?
12 Thank you, sir, for your testimony.
13 (The witness left the stand.)
14 COMMISSIONER KJELLANDER: Is there anyone else
15 who would like to testify for the official record this evening?
16 Sir, come on up.
17
18 ANTHONY COON,
19 appearing as a public witness, being first duly sworn, was
20 examined and testified as follows:
21
22 THE WITNESS: Anthony Coon, 74 -- excuse me,
23 forgot my own address. How about P.O. Box 643, Rexburg. I
24 don't ever use the address at home.
25
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1 EXAMINATION
2
3 BY MR. PRICE:
4 Q.Are you a Rocky Mountain Power customer?
5 A.I am.
6 Q.Go right ahead.
7 THE WITNESS: I've heard a whole bunch of
8 testimony tonight that hasn't been very favorable towards Rocky
9 Mountain Power. I just want to state that in their favor, they
10 have had some programs that have benefited me. I've taken
11 advantage of their insulation program and that does actually
12 help. I've put some insulation in my roof, and that was mostly
13 paid for. So, thank you for that.
14 However, I, like most other people, have to
15 question a continual request for an increase that seems to not
16 match what I would call pace of cost of living increases.
17 Seven percent at this time and seven percent at that time and
18 three and a half or whatever those are just don't seem to
19 match, let's say, the cost of my groceries going up, because
20 they go up and they certainly don't come back down.
21 But, if you could give me justification for why
22 those rates are all of a sudden happening it seems like, you
23 know, in a couple of years -- and I've been a Rocky Mountain
24 customer or Utah Power or PacifiCorp or ScottishPower or
25 whoever it is for a long time -- and it doesn't seem like we've
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1 had the magnitude of the rate increases in the past, so why all
2 of a sudden now when there's this wind generation issue that
3 seems to be dovetailing in with the same time frame? If you
4 could answer those questions, then that would help me out.
5 That's all I've got to say.
6 COMMISSIONER REDFORD: Thank you.
7 COMMISSIONER KJELLANDER: Thank you.
8 Are there any questions?
9 MR. PRICE: No questions.
10 MS. HOGLE: No questions.
11 COMMISSIONER KJELLANDER: Thank you again for
12 your testimony.
13 (The witness left the stand.)
14 COMMISSIONER KJELLANDER: Is there anyone else
15 who would like to testify? Please come up.
16
17 TERI KNOX,
18 appearing as a public witness, being first duly sworn, was
19 examined and testified as follows:
20
21 THE WITNESS: My name is Teri Knox. I live at
22 2146 East 200 North, Saint Anthony, and I am a Rocky Mountain
23 Power customer.
24 MR. PRICE: Thank you.
25 THE WITNESS: I have before me the bill -- this
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1 is for my father's house and we do live with him, but he has
2 Social Security of $680. Our bill last month was $203. If we
3 were not living with my father, there is no way he could remain
4 in his home.
5 I ask that you take this into consideration when
6 you're looking to grant this increase. You know, this is
7 ridiculous. There's no way that anyone on fixed income can
8 stay in their own home. If you figure in, he would not be able
9 to pay for food.
10 And when he's in this home, even with us, we keep
11 the power -- or, the thermostat at 60 degrees. Turn it up
12 at 65 when he gets up in the day. He wears an insulated vest
13 and he does sit with, you know, a blanket over his legs to keep
14 him warm. And at this point, I've had to send him to family
15 members that live in a milder climate. It's just very
16 difficult.
17 And my husband and I are getting up to the age of
18 being retired. The company I work for, I have not had a wage
19 increase in two years. To keep costs down they have asked us
20 to cut costs, to see where we can cut costs, and I think that
21 Rocky Mountain Power can ask the same.
22 Thank you.23 (Applause. )
24 COMMISSIONER KJELLANDER: Do we have any
25 questions?
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1 MS. HOGLE: No questions.
2 MR. PRICE: No questions.
3 COMMISSIONER KJELLANDER: Thank you.
4 (The witness left the stand.)
5 COMMISSIONER KJELLANDER: Is there anyone else
6 who would like to testify this evening?
7 MS. REYNOLDS: I will.
8 COMMISSIONER KJELLANDER: Come on up.
9 MS. REYNOLDS: Sorry, I'm a little slow.
10 COMMISSIONER KJELLANDER: No, you're fine.
11 You're fine.
12
13 KATHY REYNOLDS,
14 appearing as a public witness, being first duly sworn, was
15 examined and testified as follows:
16
17 THE WITNESS: My name is Kathy Reynolds. I live
18 at 4141 East 685 North, Rigby, Idaho, 83442.
19 I'm a disabled veteran. My total income is under
20 a thousand dollars a month. My electric bill last month was
21 $292 for a 1,700-square-foot house.
22 Now, I have a nephew and his wife and
23 four-year-old daughter living with me now. My nephew's wife is
24 unemployed; she's getting ready to go back to school. He has
25 found seasonal work, but he's been unemployed for the last two
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1 years. So even with food stamps to help out, we're having a
2 rough time.
3 And you can see, this is how I dress all the
4 time -- thermals -- in my house.
5 I use a wood stove. We've gone through a cord
6 and a half of firewood already this year. I don't see why my
7 electric bill should have to be so high when we're using a wood
8 stove for heat, you know.
9 And we turn off the lights. We use the
10 dishwasher, the washing machine, we do all of that at night
11 when the rates are supposed to be lower. I don't get it, and I
12 don't think it's right. You can't expect people to live like
13 this.
14 I think they're right: Rocky Mountain Power
15 needs to look at their own internal costs and try to cut
16 expenses wherever they can, because you just cannot expect
17 people like us to keep footing the bill; we're not going to do
18 it. I don't care if we have to go back to using candles and
19 lanterns, you know, we just can't do it. We can't keep funding
20 their spending sprees. It's ridiculous.
21 Thank you.
22 (Applause. )
23 COMMISSIONER KJELLANDER: Do we have any
24 questions?
25 Thank you for your testimony.
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1 (The witness left the stand.)
2 COMMISSIONER KJELLANDER: Is there anyone else
3 who'd like to testify this evening?
4 If not, I'd like to thank all of you for your
5 attendance this evening, and for your willingness to share your
6 thoughts and your direct testimony to help us develop the
7 record of this case.
8 And I want to again remind everyone that we will
9 have a telephonic hearing for those that were either unable to
10 attend this evening or who may have some other thoughts that
11 they weren't able to share this evening and would like to
12 participate in that additional telephonic hearing. That will
13 be Monday, December 19th.
14 And, with that as a reminder, the technical
15 hearing on this case will be
16 A VOICE: How do you join that phone call?
17 MR. PRICE: The directions are on the Notice.
18 COMMISSIONER KJELLANDER: Well, let's see. Gene,
19 you brought the information?
20 MR. GENE FADNESS: The Notices and the press
21 releases were on the table, and the number and the call-in
22 number are on those. We did run out of those. I don't know if
23 you got one.
24 A VOICE: No.
25 MR. GENE FADNESS: But if you, at the end of the
178
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COLLOQUY
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.
20
21
22
23
24.25
1 meeting, will get with me, I'll make sure you get one.
2 A VOICE: Thank you.
3 COMMISSIONER KJELLANDER: Thank you. And, again,
4 that telephonic hearing will be on Monday, December 19th.
5 And we will also allow for written testimony to
6 continue to be included within the context of the record of
7 this case until December 19th as well.
8 So, with that --
9 A VOICE: Sir. Sir, what time will that be on
10 Monday?
11 COMMISSIONER KJELLANDER: On the 19th at 7: 00
12 p.m.
13 A VOICE: Thank you.
14 COMMISSIONER KJELLANDER: Seven p.m.
15 So, with that then, we are adjourned for this
16 evening, and, again, thank you for your presence and
17 participation.
18 (The hearing adjourned at 10:07 p.m.)
19
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COLLOQUY
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20
21
22
23
24.25
1 AUTHENTICATION
2
3
4 This is to certify that the foregoing is a
5 true and correct transcript to the best of my ability of the
6 proceedings held in the matter of the Application of
7 PacifiCorp, dba Rocky Mountain Power, for approval of changes
8 to its electric service schedules, Case No. PAC-E-11-12,
9 commencing on Thursday, December 8, 2011, at the Fremont County
10 Annex Room, 125 North Bridge Street, Saint Anthony, Idaho, and
11 the original thereof for the file of the Commission.
12
13
14
15
16
ry Public
S ate of Idaho,
residing at Me dian, Idaho.
My Commission expires 2-8-2014.
Idaho CSR No. 475
17
18
19
180
HEDRICK COURT REPORTING
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AUTHENTICATION
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‘(3 1 Have sorrethng to saJ about a titer?Voice your
thoughts at :.‘:‘.i.poslngs:etcorn 3csttah.
;Jnatfordahle rate hikes
eceved Nov.3
The Idaho Public Utilities Commission
recently conducted a public workshop in
Rexburg to explain a proposed rate hike
settlement with Rocky Mountain Powei:
MP has been asking the IPUC for rate
increases annual1ç plus they’ve been press
ing for interim rate hikes this yea!:
I invited some local legislators to attend
he workshop and to her credit,District 35
state Rep.JoAn Wood came to the meeting.
ep.Wood reminded IPUC and RMP repre
sentatives that we’re in the midst of a bad
recession where families,businesses and
agriculture are suffering in these tough
economic times.Major utilities should be
sharing the burden of financial hardships.
Granted,Rocky Mountain Power may
possibly have increased expenses.To be
‘air and impartial,Idaho Public Utility corn
uissioners are mandated by law to factor
that into their deliberations when consider
lug rate hikes,but one has to ask;how far
-vill RMP go when enough is enough?The
company wants to make a reasonable pruf
t.That’s fine when our economy is thriv
log.
The IPUC will be holding public hear
‘ngs in mid-Decembei probably in Rexburg
and Shelley,with dates and times to he
annoUnced.Unfortunately,that will be in
Pie midst of the holiday season where
many of us will be focused more on Christ
:nas activities.-
If your home,business or farm is served
by Rocky Mountain Power.I urge you to
attend al least one of the IPUC meetings to
voice your concern.It’s well worth the time
:r you to protect your wallet and budget.
Keeping commoners in place
Received liar 2
If Rkank Clark (Oct.29)swallows all the
sludge from no other sources than
Koch/Murdoch.can you expect him to
spout anything but poison?The racially
motivated anti-Obama propaganda has
been very effective among those who find it
easier not to think for themselves.
McConnell,Cantor,DeMint —all can tell
you that he’s from the nether side of our
population and none of “them”ever had a
thought worth hearing —in spite of the last
presidential election.
Incidentally no matter how many times
its repeated on FOX,the stimulus did work
and would have been much more effective
if i?epuhlicars would have allowed a larger
airount.We also have thousands of people
working in the auto industry because
Obama would not let them fail.Similarly,if
his jobs bill had been passed,we already
would see a financial uptrend.
The top 1 2 percent made their excessive
billions from profits out of our own pock
ets,which I’m sure were much higher than
the rate they are taxed.Why is it that when
rinyone shows concern about maintaining a
standard of living for the general public
above the poverty level,it’s automatically
communism.it must be a myth perpetuated
by the rich to keep us commoners in place.
Please check an unbiased source and
prove to yourself the truth about the stimu
lus.lord count:219)
MAX C.SMiTH
Carmen
çWcu-d ccurl.250
BOB ZIEL
Rigby
EXHIBIT
70)
Pub)’
GUEST LETTERS
linoffordable Rocky Mountain Power increases
To the Editor,The Jefferson Star:
The Idaho Public Utilities Commission conductedapublicworkshopOct.27 in Rexburg toexplainaproposedratehikesettlementwithRockyMountainPowerCompany.RMPha.s beenrequesting,or perhaps the word “pressuring”would be more appropriate,the IPUC for ratehikesonanannualbasisthepastfewyears.Theutilityvilllikelycontinuetodosointheforeseeablefutureasdemandforenergycontinuestoincrease.
1 invited some of our state legislators to attendtheworkshopand,to her credit.Rep.JoAn Wood(R-Rigby)showed up.Thank you.JoAn.for attendingtheIPUCevent,It should be noted thatJoAncamedirectlytoRexburgfromanothermeetinginArco.I guess the phrase “traveling legislator”would bean appropriate description of her.Rep.Wood contributed to the discussion whereshepassionately,hut in a dignified manner,remindedrepresentativesfromtheIPUCandRMPthatwe’re in the midst of a deep recession.TherearemanypeoplewithinDistrict35,statewide
Idaho aid nationwide who have fallen on toughtimeswithverytightfamilybudgets.The lastthingweneedareregularratehikesforelectricutilities.
Granted.RMP has to deal with increased cxpenses.To be fair and equitable.Idaho Public UtilitiesCommissionersaremandatedbylawtofactorthatintotheirdeliberationswhenconsideringratehikes,but one has to ask.How far will RMP gowhenenoughisenough?As a political conservativeandanadvocateofcapitalism.I realize thatthecompanywantstomakeareasonableprofitandthat’s fine during good economic times.The IPUC will be holding formal public hearings.likely in Rexburg and Shelley.in mid-Decemberwithexactdatesandtimesyettobeannounced.Unfortunately,that will be during theholidayseasonwherewe’ll be wrapped up withChristmascelebrations.
I urge you to take an hour or two out of yourbusyscheduletoattendatleastoneoftheIPUChearingstovoiceyouropinion.To do so would bewellworthyourlimeandevenmoreimportantly,well worth it for your pocket book.
Bob Ziel
Righyg
—
ROCKY MOUNTAIN PAGE 1 0F2
ROBERT E ZIEL Questions aboutyourbill:1-888-221-7070 BILLING DATE:Nov 9,2011
152 DOVE AVE .1..—V_.Call to/I tree 24 hours a day,7 days a week
RIRBY 19 83442-1246 “T—’\‘L ‘4 V vwrocI’ymountainpower.net ACCOUNT NUMBER:63933906-001 9
DATE DUE:Nov29,2011
AMOUNT DUE:$95.50
Your Balance With Us Payments Received Historical Data -ITEM 1
97.47 DATE DESCRIPTION
-97.47 Nov 4,2011 Payment Received -Thank you
Total Payments
AMOUNT
______
35
97.47 28
91
14“7.47
0
2010 NDJFMAMJJASON2O11
Your Average DaiIr kwh Usage by Month
PERIODENDING NOV2011 NOV2010
Avg.Daily Temp.40 44
Total lnvfl 862 935
Avg kwh per Day
Want to help your neighbors in need
this winter?Use the enclosed
envelope to make a tax-deductible
donation,
Know a friend or relative who could
use a little help paying their energy
bill?You can make a gift payment on
their account.Just call us toll free at
1 -888-221-7070,or visit
rockymountainpower net/gift to find
out more
Late Payment Charge forIdaho
A late payment charge 011%may be
charged on the delinquent balance per
month.
Previous Account Balance
Payments/Credits
New Charges +95.50
Current Account Balance $95.50
Detailed Account Activity
iTEIIf 1 aECTRIG SERVICE -.1’52 Dove A’veRiby ID
Idaho Residential Service Schedule 36
7440207 Oct 10,2011 NovB,2011 29 26796
METER SERVICE PERIOD ELAPSED METER READINGS METER AMOUNT USED
NUMBER From To DAYS Previous Current MULTIPLIER THIS MONTH
27262 1.0 (466 onkwh
47440207 Oct 10,2011 Nov 8,2011 29 26741 27137 1.0 396 oftkwh
Next scheduled read date:12-12.Date may vary due to scheduling or weather.
NEWCH4RGES-1lJ11 UNITS COST PER UNIT CHARGE
Basic Charge -Single Phase 14.00
Energy Charge -On Peak
for 21 day(s)Summer 337 onkwh 0.1221910 41.18
for8 day(s)Winter 129 onkwh 0.1043770 13.46
Energy Charge -Off Peak
for 21 day(s)Summer 287 offkwh 0.0416970 11.97
for 8 day(s)Winter 109 offkwh 0.0381620 4.16
Energy Cost Adjust -Sec,Tou 862 kwh 0.0056900 4.90
Customer Efficiency Services 0.0340000 3.05
Rigby Franchise Fee 0.0300000 2.78
Total New Charges 95.50
Write accountnumber on check &mall to:RoclyMlii Power,1033 NE6th Aye,Portland,OR 97256-0001 RETAIN THIS PORTION FOR YOUR RECORDS
EXHIBIT
1Z70-
7th District Court Assistance Office Statistical Data
COURT ASSISTANCE OFFICE CONTACTS:YEARLY TOTALS
2008 2009 2010 2011*
Yearly Totals 8498 9375 9627 9035
*Through 12/6/li
PERCENTAGE OF PEOPLE WHO VISIT THE OFFICE BELOW THE POVERTY LEVEL
2008 2009 2010 2011
125%and below 57%66%72%66%
125%and above 43%44%28%44%
4-YEAR AVERAGE OF OFFICE CONTACTS BY COUNTY
COUNTY PHONE OFFICE AVG.TOTAL
Bonneville 47.1 57.2 52.1
Bingham 17.9 19.9 18.9
Jefferson 7.3 8.4 7.9
Madison 4.8 4.1 4.4
Fremont 3.5 4.7 4.1
Teton 3.7 1.0 2.4
Lemhi 2.4 1.8 2.1
Clark 0.2 0.0 0.1
Custer 1.0 0.3 0.7
Butte 0.8 0.0 0.4
Other 7.1 0.1 3.6
Other State 4.1 2.5 -3.3
100.0 100.0 100.0
YEARLY TOTALS BY CASE TYPE
2008 2009 2010 2011
Divorce w/Children 1362 1350 1551 1515
Divorce no Children 1244 787 977 1043
Modification 725 1033 922 1178
Child custody 520 651 604 517
Child Support 365 336 364 275
Guardianship 82 97 130 134
Landlord/Tenant 123 136 100 98
Small Claims 243 212 283 203
Name Changes 162 128 130 113
Collection 123 116 96 111
JI