20120103Volume I.pdf

.L
BEFORE THE IDAHO PUBLIC UTILITIES ca~M~&~ PM 4: 48
IN THE MATTER OF THE APPLICATION
OF PACIFICORP DBA ROCKY MOUNTAIN
POWER FOR APPROVAL OF CHANGES TO
ITS ELECTRIC SERVICE SCHEDULES
,,- is::fi1tJ r);",lS
CA~~l IM:LL",J ,f.leo,
PAC-E-11-12
PUBLIC HEARING
HEARING BEFORE
COMMISSIONER PAUL KJELLANDER (Presiding)
COMMISSIONER MACK A. REDFORD
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PLACE:Senior Citizens Center21 South Main Street
Downey, Idaho
DATE:December 7, 2011
VOLUME I - Pages 1 - 46
.POST OFFICE BOX 578
BOISE, IDAHO 83701
208-336-9208
COURT REPORTING
s'tl1' th ~ M//fIt¡ øit 19
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23.24
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1 APPEARANCES
2 For the Staff:NEIL PRICE, Esq.
Deputy Attorney General
472 West Washington
Boise, Idaho 83702
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5 For PacifiCorp
dba Rocky Mountain Power
(RMP) :
YVONNE R. HOGLE, Esq.
Senior Counsel
Rocky Mountain Power
201 South Main Street, Suite 2300
Salt Lake City, Utah 84111
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HEDRICK COURT REPORTING
P. O. BOX 578, BOISE, ID 83701
.1 I N 0 E X
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WITNESS EXAMINATION BY PAGE
3
Stanley Jensen Mr.Price 6
4 (Public)Statement 6
Commissioner Kjellander 10
5 Commissioner Redford 11
6 Daniel Magill Mr.Price 15
( Public)Statement 15
7
Warren Gleason Mr.Price 18
8 ( Public)Statement 19
Commissioner Kjellander 22
9
Phil Maughan Mr.Price 23
10 (Public)Statement 23
11 Paul Swainston Mr.Price 26
( Public)Statement 27
12.Gary Barnes Sworn 28
13 (Public)Mr.Price 29
Statement 29
14
Darl Gleed Mr.Price 30
15 ( Public)Statement 31
16 Larry Ward Mr.Price 33
(Public)Statement 33
17
Robert Broadhead Mr.Price 35
18 (Public)Statement 35
19 Sheldon Barfuss Mr.Price 37
(Public)Statement 38
20
Bruce Baxter Mr.Price 39
21 ( Public)Statement 39
22 Daniel Magill Mr.Price 42
(Public)Further Statement 42
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24 EXHIBITS.25
(No exhibits were marked.)
HEDRICK COURT REPORTING INDEX
P.O.BOX 578,BOISE,10 83701 EXHIBITS
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1 OOWNEY, IOAHO, WEDNESDAY, OECEMBER 7,2011,7:00 P.M.
2
3
4 COMMISSIONER KJELLANDER:Good evening. Can you
5 hear me okay?
6 A VOICE: No.
7 COMMISSIONER KJELLANDER: No. Fair enough.
8 This is the time and place for a hearing in Case
9 No. PAC-E-11-12. It i s the Application of PacifiCorp/Rocky
10 Mountain Power regarding a proposed rate case settlement.
11 My name is Paul Kjellander; 1'm the Chairman of
12 this particular case. To my right is Commissioner Mack
13 Redford. The third Commissioner is Commissioner Marsha Smith.
14 The three of us comprise the Commission, and at the end of all
15 of the proceedings associated with this case will be the three
16 that make the final determination and issue an Order in
17 reference to the official record that we develop in the context
18 of this case.
19 This evening our purpose is to take public
20 testimony, again as we try to fully develop the record. As we
21 make our Oecision to the Commission, we can only base our
22 Oecision on what i s referred to as the official record, and
23 that i s why we have a court reporter here to take down your
24 statement so that we can again have that as part of the
25 official record and we can use it in our deliberation
1
HEDRICK COURT REPORTING
P. O. BOX 578, BOISE, ID 83701
COLLOQUY
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1 process.
2 The way it will work this evening is we will call
3 you up by name. We will have you come forward. Commissioner
4 Redford will swear you in. We i II have you stand here at this
5 podium. If you have difficulty standing, what we can do is
6 easily put a chair nearby. We i II want to make it as
7 accommodating as possible. Neil Price, who is an attorney with
8 the Public Utilities Commission, will ask you a few quick
9 questions just to get you officially into the record, and then
10 we i II take your statement.
11 The other issues that we need to go through at
12 least as far as formalities here are to take the appearances of
13 the parties. We i II begin with the Staff for the Commission.
14 MR. PRICE: My name is Neil Price. I i m an
15 attorney for the Commission Staff.
16 COMMISSIONER KJELLANDER: 00 we have any
17 representati ves of the other Intervenors or parties to this
18 case that are here? Yes.
19 MS. HOGLE: Yes, Commissioner. Good evening. My
20 name is Yvonne Hogle, and 1'm an attorney with Rocky Mountain
21 Power. I just want to clarify something with you, and that is
22 if people are sworn into the record, is it the Commission 's
23 intent to allow the Company to cross-examine?
24 COMMISSIONER KJELLANDER: Absolutely.
25 MS. HOGLE: Okay.
2
HEORICK COURT REPORTING
P. O. BOX 578, BOISE, ID 83701
COLLOQUY
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20
1 COMMISSIONER KJELLANDER: And if I fail to
2 mention that and you intend -- are you legal counsel?
3 MS. HOGLE: Yes, I am.
4 COMMISSIONER KJELLANDER: If you intend to
5 cross-examine, what I'd like you to do is take that seat there,
6 and not sit there.
7 MS. HOGLE: Okay.
8 COMMISSIONER KJELLANDER: Great. So why don't
9 you go ahead and move up, and I appreciate you informing me of
10 your presence.
11 MS. HOGLE: Okay. I wonder, however, if you can
12 allow me to decide whether or not I will cross-examine.
13 COMMISSIONER KJELLANDER: We'll give you every
14 opportuni ty.
15 MS. HOGLE: Okay.
16 COMMISSIONER KJELLANOER: In fact, I'll go
17 through that process in just a moment, but I appreciate you
18 raising that.
19 MS. HOGLE: Okay.
COMMISSIONER KJELLANDER: So please go ahead and
21 take the seat up there.
22 COMMISSIONER REDFORD: And can you speak up a
23 little bit? I know you can all hear me, but I can't hear all
24.25
of you. Has something to do with being 45 years old.
COMMISSIONER KJELLANDER: Okay, does this work?
3
HEORICK COURT REPORTING
P. O. BOX 578, BOISE, ID 83701
COLLOQUY
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1 MR. GENE FADNESS: I'm hoping it does.
2 COMMISSIONER KJELLANDER: Check, one, two.
3 Nothing? I'll just go ahead and speak loudly.
4 After we get you sworn in and we take your
5 comments, we then allow for what's called cross-examination.
6 (Audio feedback.)
7 COMMISSIONER KJELLANDER: You know, I think we're
8 going to be better off without it.
9 MR. GENE FADNESS: Okay.
10 COMMISSIONER KJELLANDER: We'll have some
11 cross-examination. It's simply an opportunity to ask some
12 questions based on the testimony you provide. And with that,
13 then, the Commissioners will have an opportunity to ask you a
14 question or two, as well as other parties to the case.
15 We do have a party from Rocky Mountain Power. I
16 think we also have other representatives and parties to the
17 case. Mr. Smith.
18 MR. JIM SMITH: Jim Smith with Monsanto.
19 COMMISSIONER KJELLANDER: Jim Smith with
20 Monsanto.
21 Are there any other parties to the case who are
22 here tonight that we have not recognized? If not, I believe
23 we're ready to proceed..24 The first witness that we have on the sign-up
25 sheet -- and by the way, if you haven't signed up yet and you
4
HEDRICK COURT REPORTING
P. O. BOX 578, BOISE, ID 83701
COLLOQUY
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1 want to testify or you decide during the course of the evening
2 that you want to provide some testimony, we'll provide that
3 opportuni ty for you. We're here to stay as long as necessary
4 to get your comments.
5 Addi tionally, Mr. Fadness, who works with the
6 Commission, probably has another sign-up sheet still available,
7 and so, again, we're here to hear from you and want to make
8 sure we don't shortchange you in that opportunity.
9 Our first individual to testify tonight and I
10 apologize if I have any difficulties with your name -- I
11 believe it is Phil McLaughlan.
12 MR. MAUGHAN: Phil Maughan. Can I defer for a
13 little bit?
14 COMMISSIONER KJELLANDER:Sure.
15 MR. MAUGHAN: I would appreciate that.
16 COMMISSIONER KJELLANDER: That's fine. And, in
17 fact, we'll just move on, but we'll come back to you.
18 MR. MAUGHAN: Okay, thank you.
19 COMMISSIONER KJELLANDER: If you'd do me the
20 favor though of just raising your hand if we get to the point
21 of us trying to move on without hearing from you? Thank you,
22 Phil.
23 Wayne Griffin.
24.25
MR. GRIFFIN: I'll also wait for a while.
COMMISSIONER KJELLANDER: Okay. I'm going to.
5
HEORICK COURT REPORTING
P. O. BOX 578, BOISE, 10 83701
COLLOQUY
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20
1 switch it up here and start from the bottom of the list.
2 A VOICE: Then he calls his name.
3 COMMISSIONER KJELLANDER: How about Stan Jensen?
4 MR. JENSEN: I'm here.
5 COMMISSIONER KJELLANDER: Stan, would you like to
6 testify?
7 MR. JENSEN: Yes.
8 COMMISSIONER KJELLANDER: Stan, why don't we have
9 you come on up and have you get sworn in.
10
11 STANLEY JENSEN,
12 appearing as a public witness, being first duly sworn, was
13 examined and testified as follows:
14
15 EXAMINATION
16
17 BY MR. PRICE:
18 Q.Sir, could you please state your name and your
19 address?
A.My name is Stanley K. Jensen. My address is 6858
21 North Old Highway 191, Malad, Idaho.
22
23
24.25
Q.And are you a Rocky Mountain customer?
A.Yes. I mean, I buy power from Rocky Mountain.
Q.Okay. Thank you. You can go ahead and proceed.
THE WITNESS: I just returned, my wife and I,
6
HEORICK COURT REPORTING
P. O. BOX 578, BOISE, ID 83701
JENSENPublic
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1 from the Idaho Supreme Court, where we had an oral hearing on
2 the lawsuit that Rocky Mountain has against us.
3 Rocky Mountain run ten poles through 145 acres of
4 our property on the Ben Lomond proj ect and considered that
5 there were no damages, that they did no damage to us. So, we
6 refused to settle, so of course we were put under eminent
7 domain laws and were sued by Rocky Mountain Power.
8 Judge Robert Naftz was the attorney that held the
9 case, and on the case, Rocky Mountain filed for summary
10 judgment and was granted summary judgment when all of the
11 issues were not addressed, so we appealed Rocky Mountain's
12 the Judge's Decision to the Supreme Court, and that's what was
13 heard today.
14 On our property, for example, Rocky Mountain put
15 in five and a half acres of roads. They cut our property --
16 145 acres -- into 22 pieces. We have roads on our place 18
17 feet wide, gravel five feet high through the middle of our
18 grain fields, but of course there was no damage. So, they have
19 refused to pay any damages, even those that they promised.
20 For example, our property borders 1-15. Exit 17
21 goes right in to our property. We run cattle on that property,
22 and that's where they had to access our property. We
23 couldn't -- we -- they couldn't keep our gate shut, so they
24 asked us when this proj ect first started if we would -- if we
25 would put our cattle somewhere else, they would pay for the
7
HEORICK COURT REPORTING
P. O. BOX 578, BOISE, ID 83701
JENSEN
Public
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1 pasture and the fee. So for three years, we drylotted our
2 cattle. They couldn i t keep the gate shut, and when we shut the
3 gate, they just destroyed it and ran over it. And that means
4 if our cattle get out -- we're only 100 yards from 1-15
5 they're on 1-15.
6 Well, after we got into court, they couldn't
7 remember making that promise, so so we have gotten no
8 damages, nothing, out of the damage end of it.
9 One of the things that's most disturbing is that
10 Rocky Mountain is milking these projects, they are overdoing
11 them, they're overcharging to the point that's ridiculous. I
12 mean, for example, they have spent more money on our case in
13 attorney fees than under the law would have been necessary to
14 pay our claim.
15 They have -- they have done proj ects where it was
16 way more necessary to just make money out of it. For example,
17 on our property, if they would have moved the line just a
18 quarter of a mile to the west, the construction people said
19 that alone would have saved them over a million dollars in
20 construction fees.
21 When this proj ect first started, we begged them
22 to push that line to the west. I'm on record asking them to do
23 it. Rocky Mountain has my testimony on record, asking them to
24 do that, begging them to do it. The line wouldn't have been
25 one foot longer, and they wouldn't have had to have five and a
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HEORICK COURT REPORTING
P. O. BOX 578, BOISE, ID 83701
JENSEN
Public
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1 half acres of access roads completely through our property if
2 they would have just done that.
3 They refused.
4 So, I mean, their waste -- their waste is
5 horrible.
6 When they were asking -- when they were asking
7 for the increase in the Public Utili ties Commission for an
8 increase in rates, I sent a letter to you people at the Public
9 Utili ties Commission and told you that this was going on, and I
10 asked that you don't give them a rate increase until they clean
11 up their waste. And I got a letter back from you that said you
12 got my letter and that you would answer me when you made the
13 Decision, but I haven't heard from you. So, I don't know what
14 happened with all of that.
15 So, anyhow, that's basically our story.
16 COMMISSIONER KJELLANDER: Thank you, Mr. Price
17 (sic). Let's see if there i s some cross-examination questions.
18 MS. CATHY JENSEN: It's Exit 22, not 17.
19 THE WITNESS: Right.
20 COMMISSIONER KJELLANDER: Let's see if there's
21 some cross.
22 MR. PRICE: No questions.
23 COMMISSIONER KJELLANDER: No questions?
24 MS. HOGLE: I have no questions.
25 COMMISSIONER KJELLANDER: None.
9
HEORICK COURT REPORTING
P. O. BOX 578, BOISE, 10 83701
JENSEN
Public
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1 Questions from the Commission?
2 COMMISSIONER REDFORD: No questions.
3
4 EXAMINATION
5
6 BY COMMISSIONER KJELLANDER:
7 Q.Just one: When do you anticipate a result on the
8 appeals hearing that you had today?
9 A.Ninety days, they said, before we would hear
10 anything.
11 Q.Okay.
12 A VOICE: How much additional fence --
13 COMMISSIONER KJELLANDER:Sorry, sir. Sir, I'm
14 trying to keep the process pretty pure, and I apologize. It's
15 extremely difficult if we have cross-conversations for us to
16 develop the record, so I'll have to ask you to hold up your
17 question, but I appreciate your concern.
18 Q.BY COMMISSIONER KJELLANDER: What I'd like to do,
19 if you could, if you could just keep us apprised, maybe shoot
20 us an e-mail or give us a call. I'd just be curious what the
21 outcome is. We don't always see all the proceedings that come
22 forward. I'm just curious, going forward, how this gets dealt
23 with.
24.25
A.One of the things that we're extremely
discouraged about from the Idaho courts is that we requested
10
HEORICK COURT REPORTING
P. Q. BOX 578, BOISE, ID 83701
JENSEN (Com)
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1 right from the beginning for a trial by jury and we've been
2 denied that, and we're extremely upset that -- in fact, we feel
3 like our constitutional rights have been denied on what i s
4 happening here with this. So that's something that is --
5 And we have been extremely disturbed with the
6 judgeship of Robert Naftz. His handling of the case, in my
7 opinion, was ferocious. So, I mean, it's --
8 Q.Mr. Price (sic), we do appreciate you coming here
9 tonight, and thank you for taking the time.
10 A.You're welcome.
11 Q.Oh, why am I calling you our attorney?
12 A.I don't know. You can call me anything you want.
13 Q.It gives you a better status with the Court.
14 Mr. Jensen, my apologies.
15 A.No problem.
16 Q.My apologies.
17
18 EXAMINATION
19
20 BY COMMISSIONER REOFORD:
21 Q.I just have a couple of -- please, I'd like to
22 state:
23 Are you familiar -- and I wouldn't expect you to.24 be -- about all of the different functions of the Courts and
25 the PUC and so on, and the Counties? Are you familiar with the
11
HEDRICK COURT REPORTING
P. O. BOX 578, BOISE, ID 83701
JENSEN (Com)
Public
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1 siting of power lines and windmills or whatever is up to the
2 Counties?
3 A.In what way do you mean they're up to the
4 Counties?
5 Q.They make the final decision as to where lines
6 are sited, and --
7 A VOICE: Can you speak louder, please?
8 A VOICE: Yeah, I can't hear you.
9 Q.BY COMMISSIONER REDFORD:to where the lines
10 are sited, and then it goes from there to the District Court,
11 where you were, I'm sure?
12 A.Well, in Oneida County, that's bull, because
13 Rocky Mountain Power stuck poles in Oneida County in County
14 easements without any permission, without a permit, or anything
15 else.
16 Q.Okay.
17 A.So, I mean, I don't know how it works in other
18 counties, but it doesn't work in Oneida County.
19 Q.Well, you might visit with your County
20 commissioners or your legislators about that.
21 A.I have visited with them. I even wrote Rocky
22 Mountain Power president, demanding that those poles be moved.
23 They have poles so close to Oneida County roads, for example,.24 the road can never be widened where it needs to be widened.
25 And my wife is a nurse at the hospital. She has
12
HEORICK COURT REPORTING
P. O. BOX 578, BOISE, ID 83701
JENSEN (Com)
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1 to drive down that road every day.
2 And I wrote to Rocky Mountain Power's president
3 and asked him, demanded, that that be pushed.
4 The sad part about this is -- is they had five
5 million acres to the east and they only needed to move it 50
6 feet and it wouldn't have done anything, and they refused to do
7 it.
8 Q.Okay. Well, I was just going to tell you --
9 A VOICE: Can you use the mike?
10 Q.BY COMMISSIONER REDFORD: -- maybe after the
11 Let's see if I can get this to work. Hello? Can
12 you hear me now?
13 A VOICE: It's set too low.
14 Q.BY COMMISSIONER REDFORD: Thank you. But I'll
15 tell you that the Staff may be able to help you afterwards and
16 talk to you.
17 A.Really, we need some help. Somebody has got to
18 stand up to this. I mean, they're steamrolling over people
19 disgracefully on what's happening here.
Q.Okay.
A.I mean, something has got to be done.
Q.Thank you. Appreciate your testimony.
COMMISSIONER KJELLANDER: Thank you, Mr. Jensen.
(Applause. )
(The witness left the stand.)
13
HEDRICK COURT REPORTING
P. Q. BOX 578, BOISE, ID 83701
JENSEN (Com)
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1 COMMISSIONER KJELLANDER: Cathy Jensen.
2 (Telephone sounds.)
3 COMMISSIONER KJELLANDER: Could I also ask -- and
4 I do the same thing -- but if you could just turn your ringers
5 off of your phones, because when I hear those things go off I
6 get jealous, because everybody has a better ring tone than me.
7 If you would just turn those off, that would be appreciated.
8 And Cathy Jensen.
9 MS. JENSEN: My husband has pretty well covered
10 it. And, you know, the thing I would say more than anything
11 else: If it comes out of Rocky Mountain's mouth, it's not
12 true.
13 COMMISSIONER KJELLANDER: Thank you. Let's move
14 on now to --15 (Applause. )
16 COMMISSIONER KJELLANDER: Also, applause -- we
17 serve as a judicial body, and so if you could kind of keep in
18 mind sort of the same process that you would use in a
19 courtroom, which is you don't applaud, or you don't boo if you
20 hear something you don't like.
21 A VOICE: Why not?
22 COMMISSIONER KJELLANDER: Because it may be more
23 than inappropriate and it doesn't show up well on the
24 transcript.
25 So, if we could move to Mr. Daniel Magill. And,
14
HEORICK COURT REPORTING
P. O. BOX 578, BOISE, ID 83701
JENSEN (Com)Public
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20
1 Mack, if you could swear him in.
2
3 DANIEL MAGILL,
4 appearing as a public witness, being first duly sworn, was
5 examined and testified as follows:
6
7 EXAMINATION
8
9 BY MR. PRICE:
10 Q.Good evening, sir. Could you please state your
11 name and your address for the record?
12 A.My name is Daniel G. Magill, 71 North Fourth
13 West, Preston.
14 Q.Preston, Idaho?
15 A.Yeah. Triple X clothes are very impossible to
16 find. That coat's ten years old from Florida.
17 Q.Sir, are you a Rocky Mountain Power customer?
18 A.Yes.
Q.Go ahead and proceed. Thank you.
THE WITNESS: All that our family does, we do for
21 free.
22 I'm the proprietor for Hill Air Force Base; our
23 family owns Hill Air Force Base.
24.25
COMMISSIONER REDFORD: Could we call you
"General" ?
15
HEDRICK COURT REPORTING
P. O. BOX 578, BOISE, 10 83701
MAGILL
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1 THE WITNESS: Actually, I'm the only P -- or,
2 Airman Third Class at Evanston Air Force Base. The guys down
3 there, they look at me like (indicating).
4 I'm also a designer. I went to a very
5 prestigious high school, Uni versi ty of Dayton. I used to work
6 for Chrysler Corporation, Chrysler Air, Dayton, Ohio.
7 I am the one that designed I do everything for
8 free. When they had the whale kill down in Florida, I lived in
9 Florida. I'm the one that stopped the whale kill, designed the
10 new sewer and water plants that run all up and down the East
11 Coast and all along the Gulf Coast now. When you buy water
12 that has zero contaminants of any sort, that's my water.
13 I also designed for Chrysler Airtemp, and they
14 have been giving these valves away for free.
15 The new valves used at Hoover Dam and tall dams,
16 the new -- the old valves would only be functional under less
17 than the 150 foot of pressure, and Hoover Dam is 1,500 foot.
18 And the new valves are functional under near infinite pressure.
19 So Hoover Dam has got them.
20 I sit there and write and I try to isolate who
21 doesn i t have these yet, you know? Like, I don't know where you
22 get your power source, but if you say if you -- you're using
23 over 125 foot, it only takes an hour to switch them out.
24 COMMISSIONER KJELLANDER: Mr. Magill, I'd like to
25 sit and talk to you more about that. Do you have some
16
HEDRICK COURT REPORTING
P. O. BOX 578, BOISE, 10 83701
MAGILL
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1 comments, however, that are directly related to the case in
2 front of us, and if you do, we'd like to pick those up to get
3 in the record this evening.
4 THE WITNESS: My understanding, after reading
5 your handout, this is taxation without representation. That's
6 my understanding. That i s the Boston Tea Party, cramming
7 something down the public i s throat and charging them for it.
8 That's what it was all about.
9 Suggest -- I would appreciate, because using ten
10 times as much power -- pressure on the turbines, they put out
11 ten times as much power and at one-tenth of the cost with the
12 same turbines. Those turbines will hold up under 1,500 feet of
13 pressure, virtually every turbine out there.
14 So I ask that you survey your -- these windmills.
15 California got away from them because they are constantly
16 breaking down. You've got to use a high lift to get up there
17 to put oil in them. They couldn i t keep the things running.
18 And Cheyenne has a windmill farm out there. Half
19 of them aren't running because they're all broken down and
20 they're too expensive to fix. But that's my understanding of
21 those windmills.
22 Thank you.
23 COMMISSIONER KJELLANDER: Thank you. Let's see
24 if there's some questions for you, Mr. Magill, before you walk
25 away.
17
HEORICK COURT REPORTING
P. O. BOX 578, BOISE, 10 83701
MAGILLPublic
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1 THE WITNESS: Yeah, if you might be able to think
2 of questions.
3 MR. PRICE: No questions, Chairman.
4 MS. HOGLE: I have no questions.
5 COMMISSIONER REDFORD: No questions for me.
6 THE WITNESS: Like, I've done so many things that
7 I lose track of it.
8 COMMISSIONER KJELLANDER: Mr. Magill, thank you
9 for your testimony.
10 (The witness left the stand.)
11 COMMISSIONER KJELLANDER: Warren Gleason.
12
13 WARREN GLEASON,
14 appearing as a public witness, being first duly sworn, was
15 examined and testified as follows:
16
17 EXAMINATION
18
19 BY MR. PRICE:
Q.Good evening, sir. Could you please state your
21 name and your address for the record?
22 A.Yes. It's Warren J. Gleason at 106 West Oneida
23 Street, Preston, Idaho.
24.25
Q.And are you a Rocky Mountain Power customer?
A.I am a Rocky Mountain Power customer.
18
HEORICK COURT REPORTING
P. O. BOX 578, BOISE, ID 83701
GLEASONPublic
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1 Q.Thank you, sir. You may proceed.
2 THE WITNESS: Thank you. And I do engineering
3 for several people that are quite load consuming.
4 I have been an Idaho resident for 45 years. My
5 reason for being here today is to review the roles and
6 responsibilities of several government agencies.
7 One of the great questions that I've had is what
8 happened to our BPA credits? They were supposed to continue as
9 long as water ran downhill. The BPA credits were to be a
10 standard part of the water that we send downhill, and nearly
11 all of Idaho fits that category.
12 When the Columbia River project -- projects were
13 established and the great dams were built, it was for the
14 purpose of flood control and to supply cheap electrical power
15 for the Pacific Northwest. In fact, all residents, farmers,
16 irrigators, businessmen wi thin 75 airline miles of the
17 Columbia River Basin drainage were to be preference and
18 priori ty customers and entitled to the lowest possible
19 wholesale rates generated from the generators on the
20 Columbia River Basin. Only those close to the generators would
21 recei ve any lower rates on their power because of transmission.
22 You see that the dams were built by our unified investments, by
23 our taxes, by our Army Corps of Engineers, so the BPA credits
24 are our payback on our unified investments and should never,
25 ever be taken away.
19
HEDRICK COURT REPORTING
P. O. BOX 578, BOISE, ID 83701
GLEASONPublic
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1 The maj ori ty of the population of Idaho is served
2 by electric public utili ties such as Idaho Power, Rocky
3 Mountain Power, which are under the jurisdiction of the Idaho
4 Public Utilities Commission, whose responsibility it is to set
5 out in appropriate Statutes and are required to establish just
6 and reasonable charges, and to provide adequate and efficient
7 and just and reasonable service, to make just and reasonable
8 rules and regulation pertaining to its charges for services to
9 the public. And with that in mind, I request the Public
10 Utilities Commission to require an in-depth and long-term
11 environmental impact study be made upon the effect of the wind
12 energy produced in Wyoming and the associated areas, and its
13 financial impact upon Idahoans, before implementing any changes
14 in any present policy.
15 The government built the dams by the authority
16 from the President of the United States and Congress of the
17 Uni ted States. The Bonneville Power Administration has never
18 constructed and does not operate any generating facilities.
19 The BPA -- Bonneville Power Administration -- constructs
20 transmission lines, and it is the marketing agency, the
21 wheeling agency, for power generated in this specific
22 Northwest.
23 The BPA is required to maintain preference and
24 priori ty policies. The preference idea appears in at least 28
25 Federal Statutes or Directives from 1877 to 1958.
20
HEORICK COURT REPORTING
P. O. BOX 578, BOISE, ID 83701
GLEASON
Public
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1 Incidentally, the BPA' s electric energy sale contracts with
2 pri vate parties not selling electricity to the general public
3 will be immediately canceled if the energy that is resold to
4 private parties, selling electricity to the general public. In
5 other words, I would say that that means that the wind energy
6 produced in Wyoming by Mr. Buffett's organization cannot be
7 sold to Rocky Mountain Power -- another one of his holdings
8 and then to the general public.
9 I think it is wise to request the Idaho Attorney
10 General's office to investigate the rash of electric utility
11 takeovers, as there have been some bribes and payoffs that have
12 came to public light. Big money is involved here, I mean
13 millions of dollars. Some when ScottishPower bought out Utah
14 Power and Light. Who knows what has happened since with
15 Pacific Power and Rocky Mountain Power all for the same
16 customer area.
17 We grind the faces of the poor when the rich
18 impound the masses. We must establish and exhibit integrity in
19 everything that we set our hand to do, for judgment is mine,
20 saith the Lord.
21 COMMISSIONER KJELLANDER: Mr. Gleason, thank you
22 for your testimony. Let's see if we have some
23 cross-examination questions.
24 MR. PRICE: No questions.
25 MS. HOGLE: I have no questions.
21
HEDRICK COURT REPORTING
P. O. BOX 578, BOISE, ID 83701
GLEASONPublic
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1 COMMISSIONER KJELLANDER: Are there questions
2 from the Commission?
3 COMMISSIONER REDFORD: No, sir. Thank you.
4
5 EXAMINATION
6
7 BY COMMISSIONER KJELLANDER:
8 Q.Mr. Gleason, just one point: You mentioned the
9 BPA residential exchange, and there actually has been a
10 posi ti ve step forward in just the last couple of weeks. In the
11 back of the room is Gene Fadness, who is the public information
12 officer for the Commission. He can -- if you would like
13 he's right there. There might be a way for you to maybe get
14 wi th him, he can send you that latest information, because it
15 sounds like that's an area you have a lot of interest in.
16 A.Thank you.
17 Q.You might be pleased with the results there.
18 Thank you, and thank you for your testimony.19 (Applause. )
20 (The witness left the stand.)
21
22
23
24.25
COMMISSIONER KJELLANDER: Mr. Gary Barnes.
MR. BARNES: I'd like to defer.
COMMISSIONER KJELLANDER: Okay. We're down to
the folks that have deferred. We'll start again with Phil
Maughan.
22
HEDRICK COURT REPORTING
P. O. BOX 578, BOISE, ID 83701
GLEASON (Com)
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20
21
1 Did I --
2 MR. MAUGHAN: I'm not sure I know what I'm
3 talking about.
4
5 PHIL MAUGHAN,
6 appearing as a public witness, being first duly sworn, was
7 examined and testified as follows:
8
9 EXAMINATION
10
11 BY MR. PRICE:
12 Q.Good evening.
13 A.And I am a user.
14 Q.You are a Rocky Mountain Power customer?
15 A.I am.
16 Q.Could you please state your name and address for
17 the record?
18 A.Phil Maughan, and it's 1050 East 1200 North,
19 Shelley, Idaho, 83274, if you want the ZIP.
Q.Thank you, sir. Proceed.
THE WITNESS: I -- I don't know a lot about this,
22 but I have a couple of questions:
23 Where is this electricity coming from that
24.25
they're transporting? Is it from the windmills?
COMMISSIONER KJELLANDER: As far as the process
23
HEORICK COURT REPORTING
P. O. BOX 578, BOISE, ID 83701
MAUGHAN
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1 tonight, we have some people that can give you more of the
2 in-depth answers that you might want to question -- or, to ask.
3 There's some folks from the Utility as well as from the
4 Commission Staff that can answer those questions.
5 Our role tonight as Commissioners, since we
6 adj udicate the case, is to take your testimony. And so when we
7 look back at you in a blank stare when you ask a question, it's
8 because we're not supposed to be answering questions. It's not
9 part of the procedure.
10 So I apologize for that, but I didn't want to
11 just stare back at you. But we do have some Staff members that
12 can talk to you about that integrated resource plan and where
13 that comes from.
14 THE WITNESS: Okay. And I will be asking them.
15 Just as a statement, if this is from the
16 windmills, the windmills are considerably higher in rates than
17 the hydroelectric, or coal, either one.
18 And why in the world would any businessman want
19 to promote something that costs more when he can produce the
20 same thing much, much cheaper right here in our own rivers, our
21 own canals? Why would -- why -- why -- why? I don't
22 understand this type of thinking. And I'm not a real educated
23 businessman, but just sense makes -- I mean, that's just common
24 sense.
25 And I guess that's the question that I've got and
24
HEORICK COURT REPORTING
P. O. BOX 578, BOISE, ID 83701
MAUGHAN
Public
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1 the statement that I've got to make is if that be so. I
2 suspect it, but I don't know. And so enough of that.
3 COMMISSIONER KJELLANDER: If we could have you
4 stay there for just a moment.
5 Do we have any cross?
6 MR. PRICE: No questions.
7 MS. HOGLE: I have no questions.
8 COMMISSIONER KJELLANDER: Anything from the
9 Commission?
10 COMMISSIONER REDFORD: No.
11 COMMISSIONER KJELLANDER: Mr. Maughan, thank you
12 for your testimony tonight.
13 THE WITNESS: You bet.
14 COMMISSIONER KJELLANDER: And we do have some
15 folks that would help address some of the questions.
16 THE WITNESS: Who is that?
17 COMMISSIONER REDFORD: Ted Weston is here.
18 COMMISSIONER KJELLANDER: Ted is here. He could
19 talk about the integrated resource planning.
20 I don't want to keep sending everybody to
21 Mr. Fadness because I'm always afraid he's going to get
22 overwhelmed, but Gene is right there, so talk to him.
23
24.25
THE WITNESS: Well, we tie together just a little
bit for about 50, 60 years ago.
COMMISSIONER KJELLANDER: But on questions like
25
HEORICK COURT REPORTING
P. O. BOX 578, BOISE, ID 83701
MAUGHAN
Public
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1 that that are more general and broad outside of this case, feel
2 free to shoot me an e-mail or give me a call, because I'm happy
3 to talk to you about at least what I've seen over the last few
4 years on some of those things, off the record and outside of
5 this case.
6 Thank you.
7 (The witness left the stand.)
8 COMMISSIONER KJELLANDER: Phil Swainston. Did I
9 come close?
10 MR. SWAINSTON: Paul Swainston?
11 COMMISSIONER KJELLANDER: You know, how could I
12 not get "Paul" correct? For that, I apologize. Paul
13 Swainston.
14
15 PAUL SWAINSTON,
1 6 appearing as a public witness, being first duly sworn, was
17 examined and testified as follows:
18
19 EXAMINATION
20
21 BY MR. PRICE:
22 Q.Good evening. Could you please state your name
23 and your address for the record?
24.25
A.Paul Swainston, at 695 North State, Preston,
Idaho.
26
HEDRICK COURT REPORTING
P. O. BOX 578, BOISE, 10 83701
SWAINSTON
Public
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1 Q.And are you a Rocky Mountain Power customer?
2 A.Yeah, they take my money.
3 Q.Thank you, sir.
4 A.They haven't earned a dime yet.
5 Q.Go ahead and proceed with your testimony.
6 THE WITNESS: I like to keep it simple.
7 I own a business. I make business decisions
8 every day, and I've made some that weren't good decisions and
9 lost money. I understand what it means to invest money in
10 hopes of having returns, and not making money and losing money
11 instead. That's part of doing business, being in business: We
12 are free to make our own business decisions, but I think that
13 we are also required to pay for our own mistakes.
14 Though as I understand, we have a situation here
15 where Rocky Mountain Power or PacifiCorp has made the decision
16 to put in wind generators over in Wyoming. Talking to Rocky
17 Mountain Power representatives, they said -- they told me that
18 the wind generators aren i t doing them much good, they're losing
19 money on them, and they don't want to put any more in because
20 they're losing money on them. Well, it looks like it was a bad
21 investment.
22 But I don't think they have any right to ask us
23 to pay for them, or for anything else they are using to make.24
25
their profit. The only thing we should be paying for is power
that is coming to us that is for our benefit, not for somebody
27
HEORICK COURT REPORTING
P. O. BOX 578, BOISE, ID 83701
SWAINSTON
Public
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19
20
1 in California or somewhere else or to make them richer.
2 That's just about as simple as I can put it.
3 COMMISSIONER KJELLANDER: Thank you.
4 Mr. Swainston, let's see if there are some questions.
5 MR. PRICE: I have no questions.
6 MS. HOGLE: I have no questions.
7 COMMISSIONER KJELLANDER: Anything from the
8 Commission?
9 COMMISSIONER REDFORD: No questions.
10 COMMISSIONER KJELLANDER: Thank you very much,
11 and appreciate your testimony.
12 (The witness left the stand.)
13 (Applause. )
14 COMMISSIONER KJELLANDER: Wayne Griffin.
15 MR. GRIFFIN: I'll decline.
16 COMMISSIONER KJELLANDER: Mr. Griffin though,
17 thank you for coming this evening.
18 MR. GRIFFIN: You bet.
COMMISSIONER KJELLANDER: Gary Barnes.
21 GARY BARNES,
22 appearing as a public witness, being first duly sworn, was
23 examined and testified as follows:.24
25
28
HEDRICK COURT REPORTING
P. O. BOX 578, BOISE, ID 83701
BARNES
Public
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1 EXAMINATION
2
3 BY MR. PRICE:
4 Q.Good evening, sir. Could you please state your
5 name and your address for the record?
6 A.Gary Barnes, P.O. Box 181, Downey, Idaho.
7 Q.And are you a Rocky Mountain Power customer?
8 A.Yes, sir.
9 Q.Please proceed.
10 THE WITNESS: My only comment is to go on record
11 as being opposed to the increase that's being proposed due to
12 the circumstances that are pending with this increase. I feel
13 that with the depressed economy that we have in our area, we
14 are dealing with some pretty heavy stuff as it is, and --
15 A VOICE: Little louder, please.
16 THE WITNESS: Sorry.
17 Wi th the depressed economy that we have in this
18 area, I feel that this is going to put more burden on everyone
19 invol ved and that it's not for our best interest here.
20 And that's all I have to say.
21 COMMISSIONER KJELLANDER: Thank you, Mr. Barnes.
22 Let me see if there's any cross-examination.
23
24.25
MR. PRICE: No questions.
MS. HOGLE: No questions.
COMMISSIONER REDFORD: No questions, sir.
29
HEDRICK COURT REPORTING
P. O. BOX 578, BOISE, ID 83701
BARNES
Public
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20
1 THE WITNESS: Thank you.
2 COMMISSIONER KJELLANDER: Thanks again for
3 coming.
4 (The witness left the stand.)
5 (Applause. )
6 COMMISSIONER KJELLANDER: Gene, is there another
7 list?
8 MR. GENE FADNESS:(Indicating. )
9 COMMISSIONER KJELLANDER: At this point, we've
10 gone through the list of individuals who wish to testify. Is
11 there anyone else who would like to testify? Come on up,
12 sir.
13 MR. GLEEO: I do.
14
15 DARL GLEED,
16 appearing as a public witness, being first duly sworn, was
17 examined and testified as follows:
18
19 EXAMINATION
21 BY MR. PRICE:
22 Q.Can you please state your name and your address,
23 sir?
24.25
A. Darl, D-A-R-L, Gleed, G-L-E-E-O, Malad, Idaho,
110 West 600 North, in Malad.
30
HEDRICK COURT REPORTING
P. O. BOX 578, BOISE, ID 83701
GLEEDPublic
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1 Q.And are you a Rocky Mountain Power customer?
2 A.I am. My rates just went up 20 percent this
3 month.
4 Q.Thank you, sir. Please proceed.
5 THE WITNESS: I don't have a prepared statement,
6 except as the -- as I've been able to read the proposal here, I
7 commend the Commission for reducing their initial request by
8 about 50 percent. I think that's important to ratepayers in
9 Idaho.
10 I do have a concern about the item that's the
11 last paragraph on the front page where it says that the
12 proposed settlement allows the remainder of the expense for the
13 Populus to Terminal transmission line to be included in rates
14 in 2014.
15 I was deeply involved in the community hearings
16 with Rocky Mountain Power when that Populus line was proposed
17 and finally constructed as it came through Oneida County and
18 part of Bannock County. In the meetings that we had, the
19 representation was that this power line was needed to transmit
20 power from the grid that come out of Wyoming to Populus to Utah
21 to provide the needs for the expansion of Utah's power demands.
22 And they showed us charts and charts that showed what the
23 current demand is and what the transmission capabilities are to
24 get it down there, and then what the future needs are and that
25 this power was needed in Utah; and the transmission line and
31
HEORICK COURT REPORTING
P. O. BOX 578, BOISE, ID 83701
GLEEDPublic
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1 its costs would be represented and paid for by those ratepayers
2 there. And now I see today that they are requesting some --
3 apparently -- revenue from that Populus line.
4 When we would question about that, they would
5 say, "Well, at some time, that power might come back to Idaho,
6 because power runs both ways."
7 I remember that conversation. Anybody that lives
8 between Downey and the Utah border knows that that power demand
9 is not going to increase in our lifetime, it's just not a fact.
10 And for that particular piece of the power line to be included
11 in the rate increase I think is a great concern that those of
12 us in Oneida County might have. And I don't know what the
13 capaci ty is for segregating costs in rates, but I think that
14 Populus cost ought to be a Utah cost or a Rocky Mountain Power
15 cost, but it sure ain't Idaho ratepayers i.
16 That would be my thought today.
17 COMMISSIONER KJELLANDER: Sir, we want to thank
18 you for your testimony. Let's see if there's any questions.
19 MR. PRICE: No questions.
20 MS. HOGLE: I have no questions.
21 COMMISSIONER KJELLANDER: Are there questions
22 from the Commission?
23 COMMISSIONER REDFORD: No questions.
24 THE WITNESS: Thank you.
25 COMMISSIONER KJELLANDER: Sir, thank you for your
32
HEDRICK COURT REPORTING
P. O. BOX 578, BOISE, ID 83701
GLEEO
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20
1 testimony.
2 THE WITNESS: Yep.
3 (Witness left the stand.)
4 (Applause. )
5 COMMISSIONER KJELLANDER: And do we have anyone
6 else who hasn't spoken yet who would like an opportunity to put
7 an official statement into the record?
8 MR. WARD:(Indicating. )
9 COMMISSIONER KJELLANDER: Sir, come on up.
10
11 LARRY WARD,
12 appearing as a public witness, being first duly sworn, was
13 examined and testified as follows:
14
15 EXAINATION
16
17 BY MR. PRICE:
18 Q.Sir, could you please state your name and your
19 address for the record?
A.My name is Larry Ward. My address is 380 North
21 300 West, Malad, Idaho.
22
23.24
25
Q.And are you a Rocky Mountain Power customer?
A.I am.
Q.Thank you, sir. Please proceed.
THE WITNESS: Just in reading the information
33
HEORICK COURT REPORTING
P. O. BOX 578, BOISE, ID 83701
WARD
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1 here, 15-percent increase on the resources of our communi ties
2 is, I believe, an undue burden on people. I'm a small business
3 owner, and I know 15-percent increase after my business has
4 already taken a hit due to the economy is that would be hard
5 for me to bear. And I can't imagine that in this economy
6 anyone else would be any different. These are hard times for
7 people, and for us to bear the burdens of a company who made a
8 mistake I think is a travesty. That's something that should
9 not happen.
10 That's all I have to say.
11 COMMISSIONER KJELLANDER: Just a moment, please.
12 Are there any questions?
13 MR. PRICE: No questions.
14 COMMISSIONER KJELLANDER: Anything from the
15 Commission?
16 MS. HOGLE: I have no questions.
17 COMMISSIONER REDFORD: No.
18 COMMISSIONER KJELLANDER: Thank you for your
19 testimony.
20 (The witness left the stand.)
21 (Applause.)
22 COMMISSIONER KJELLANDER: Is there anyone else
23 who hasn't had -- who hasn't spoken who would like to come and
24 present for us? Sir, come on up. Thank you.
25
34
HEDRICK COURT REPORTING
P. O. BOX 578, BOISE, ID 83701
WARD
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1 ROBERT BROADHEAD,
2 appearing as a public witness, being first duly sworn, was
3 examined and testified as follows:
4
5 EXAMINATION
6
7 BY MR. PRICE:
8 Q.Please state your name and your address.
9 A.Robert Broadhead, 1309 East 6300 South, Malad,
10 Idaho.
11 Q.And are you a Rocky Mountain Power customer?
12 A.Yes, I am.
13 Q.Thank you, sir. Please proceed.
14 THE WITNESS: I've agreed with most of the
15 statements that have been made this evening. I think that none
16 of us, as businessmen or community members, are against a
1 7 private enterprise making a profit: We don i t want to see any
18 of them lose money. However, as has been stated by others, it
19 is their responsibility to either make a profit or to -- to
20 suffer the consequences of the loss determined by their
21 decisions since we do not have the ability to make those
22 decisions.
23 I think one of the things that troubles me most
24.25
about this is -- is that I live down by the Utah border, and as
I watched the power line go up, and as I attended the meetings
35
HEORICK COURT REPORTING
P. O. BOX 578, BOISE, ID 83701
BROAOHEAD
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1 in preparation of that happening, we were told that it was
2 important that this power line went up for the use of Idahoans
3 north of us. As Mr. Gleed said, the line goes completely
4 through our area, and there is no power usage off of that line.
5 And all of that is well and good, but -- but it has served us
6 in no way.
7 I'm learning as I'm going along here in reading
8 the papers coming here tonight of the increases, and they are
9 substantial if we're talking 15 percent over the next two
10 years -- approximately seven and a half percent I believe they
11 say per year -- and we've had increases in the past. I
12 understand the PUC' s position is to help regulate that.
13 Normally, I would say let free enterprise work and let them
14 have a profit or a loss according to their actions; however, we
15 know where we don't have a choice of power companies, then we
16 need the PUC to stand up for our rights in that position.
17 I was in Houston this summer, and I noticed that
18 billboards along the freeways advertised several different
19 electric companies there for the customers to sign up for, I
20 suppose much the same way as we sign up for cell phone service.
21 I don't know how that is done, but I would think that
22 competi tion for the business would help hold the prices down
23 and perhaps even make the PUC's job a lot easier.
24 We obviously cannot take on Rocky Mountain Power,
25 not that we want to. Like I say, I want them to make a profit,
36
HEDRICK COURT REPORTING
P. O. BOX 578, BOISE, ID 83701
BROADHEAD
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21
22
1 but I don't want them to make a profit on my back for bad
2 decisions that they have made in other areas.
3 That's all I have to say.
4 COMMISSIONER KJELLANDER: Thank you,
5 Mr. Broadhead. Let me see if there are some questions.
6 MR. PRICE: No questions.
7 MS. HOGLE: No questions.
8 COMMISSIONER REDFORD: Thank you, sir.
9 COMMISSIONER KJELLANDER: Thank you for your
10 testimony.11 (Applause. )
12 (The witness left the stand.)
13
14 SHELDON BARFUSS,
15 appearing as a public witness, being first duly sworn, was
16 examined and testified as follows:
17
18 THE WITNESS: Sheldon Barfuss, 5154 East
19 Cunningham Road, Downey, Idaho.
EXAMINATION
23 BY MR. PRICE:
24.25
Q.And are you a Rocky Mountain Power customer?
A.I am.
37
HEORICK COURT REPORTING
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BARFUSS
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21
22
1 Q.Thank you, sir. Please proceed.
2 THE WITNESS: Okay. How many of us would like to
3 have a guarantee of a ten-percent profit on our investments and
4 a guaranteed profit for the next 40 years? That's what Rocky
5 Mountain Power is asking. Okay, that would be great.
6 I think that Rocky Mountain Power needs to
7 tighten their belts like the rest of us and look at more
8 efficient ways to run their company and their work force.
9 I would like to go on record as opposing this
10 rate increase.
11 Thank you.
12 COMMISSIONER KJELLANDER: Thank you. If we could
13 have you wait just a moment.
14 Are there any questions?
15 MR. PRICE: No questions.
16 MS. HOGLE: No questions.
17 COMMISSIONER REDFORD: No questions, sir.
18 COMMISSIONER KJELLANDER: Thank you.
19 COMMISSIONER REDFORD: Thank you.
(The witness left the stand.)
(Applause. )
COMMISSIONER KJELLANDER: Is there anyone else
23 who hasn't had an opportunity to testify?.24
25
38
HEDRICK COURT REPORTING
P. O. BOX 578, BOISE, ID 83701
BARFUSSPublic
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1 BRUCE BAXTER,
2 appearing as a public witness, being first duly sworn, was
3 examined and testified as follows:
4
5 EXAMINATION
6
7 BY MR.PRICE:
Q.Please state your name and your address.
A.Bruce Robert Baxter.
I have a hearing loss,thanks to the
United States Army,so I didn't hear you.
8
9
10
11
12 Q.And your address, sir?
13 A.My address. Seven North 3192 East, Idaho Falls,
14 Idaho, 83401.
15 Q.And are you a Rocky Mountain Power customer?
16 A.I am.
17 Q.Thank you. Please proceed.
18 THE WITNESS: Okay. It was not my intention to
19 address the Commission this evening -- I will be speaking
20 tomorrow night at length about my objections to the current
21 rate hike -- but I would like to thank the Commissioners for
22 the fact they have gone out of their way to answer questions
23 for people. That wasn't allowed last time. I brought a friend
24.25
with me to the Rexburg public hearing on the evening of the
14th of December last year, and he was cut off when he tried to
39
HEORICK COURT REPORTING
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BAXTER
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1 ask a question and somewhat embarrassed. I don't think he'd
2 ever been in such a hearing before. And I just want to thank
3 the Commissioners for that.
4 I mean, this is -- I don't think many of us here,
5 unless we work for Rocky Mountain Power, do favor a rate hike.
6 I think I'm on pretty sound grounds stating that, but I'd just
7 like to say that this atmosphere or this environment is a lot
8 friendlier than what we experienced last year.
9 Also, I would like to go out of my way to thank
10 the Commissioners for the fact that you moved up these two
11 hearings. Last year there were four, but two I think is fine,
12 plus your electronic hearings. But they have been moved up a
13 week so it doesn i t -- it isn't quite as close to Christmas. It
14 looked like you were going to have these things around the
15 15th, 16th of January (sic), and that's just -- that's what
16 happened last year and that's just crazy: People are planning
17 for Christmas, they've got other things to do, they're not
18 worried about a rate hike. But of course when they get that
19 bill sometime in January or February, then it kind of dawns on
20 them what happened. So I'd just like to thank you for that.
21 And if anybody wants to talk to me afterwards,
22 I'm the one that sent the e-mail out that I guess went viral.
23 Thank you very much, Commissioners.
24 COMMISSIONER KJELLANDER: Thank you.
25 COMMISSIONER REDFORD: Thank you.
40
HEDRICK COURT REPORTING
P. O. BOX 578, BOISE, ID 83701
BAXTERPublic
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1 COMMISSIONER KJELLANOER: If we could have you
2 wait for just a moment.
3 THE WITNESS: Sure, I'll be glad to answer your
4 questions.
5 COMMISSIONER KJELLANDER: Any questions?
6 MR. PRICE: No questions.
7 COMMISSIONER KJELLANDER: No?
8 MS. HOGLE: No.
9 COMMISSIONER REDFORD: Thank you very much for
10 coming.
11 THE WITNESS: Thank you.
12 A VOICE: I have a question.
13 THE WITNESS: For me?
14 A VOICE: Yes.
15 COMMISSIONER KJELLANOER: Sir. Sir, again, back
16 to the --
17 A VOICE: Oh, I can't question.
18 COMMISSIONER KJELLANDER: You can, but not as
19 part of the record, not as part of the process here. Certainly
20 though I'd like to see you all get connected, and there's other
21 folks you may want to talk to as well. But as part of the
22 formal process, I've got to kind of keep a handle on it.
23 Sorry.
24.25
A VOICE: I understand that.
COMMISSIONER KJELLANDER: Okay. Is there anyone
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1 else who would like to provide some testimony for the record
2 this evening?
3 MR. MAGILL: Can I have two minutes? One or two?
4 COMMISSIONER KJELLANDER: Come on up. You've
5 already been sworn in and you're already in the record, so if
6 we could have you just restate your name.
7 MR. MAGILL: This was all by surprise. I had no
8 idea why I was coming.
9
10 DANIEL MAGILL,
11 reappearing as a public witness, having been previously duly
12 sworn, resumed the stand and was further examined and testified
13 as follows:
14
15 EXAMINATION
16
17 BY MR. PRICE:
18 Q.Can you please state your name again, sir?
19 A.Daniel G. Magill, 71 North Fourth West, Preston.
Q.All right. Go ahead.
THE WITNESS: The reason Chrysler is giving away
22 those valves, because I didn't charge them for the design, and
23 they are now able to run every factory in Michigan free of
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charge. They have no power bills of any sort running from Lake
Superior.
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1 And those are the valves that are now used the
2 length of the East Coast to harness the Niagara Falls aquifer
3 and the Lake Ontario aquifer.
4 And I just came from Florida. Orlando just went
5 off of grade two diesel. They were -- every two hours, they
6 would have to barge these -- a huge barge of grade two diesel
7 to their plant. They went to Niagara Falls aquifer. They now
8 are totally nonpolluting and it runs for free infinitum, like
9 Niagara Falls hadn't slowed down.
10 But if you could look your situation over and if
11 you could find a use for them, they're advertising.
12 COMMISSIONER KJELLANDER: Thank you.
13 COMMISSIONER REDFORD: Thank you, sir.
14 COMMISSIONER KJELLANDER: Any questions?
15 MR. PRICE: No questions.
16 MS. HOGLE: No questions.
17 COMMISSIONER KJELLANDER: Thank you again.
18 (The witness left the stand.)
19 COMMISSIONER KJELLANDER: As was referenced from
20 some of the earlier testimony, there will be another public
21 hearing tomorrow night in Saint Anthony, and then there will
22 also be a telephonic hearing for those that aren't able to
23 attend these public hearings on Monday, December 19th. So if
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you leave here this evening and there's something that you
think of that you want to officially get into the record
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1 through that telephonic hearing, please feel free to
2 participate in that.
3 Addi tionally, we'll be taking written comments,
4 as we have from the beginning of this case, until we actually
5 close the case at the conclusion of the technical hearing,
6 which is I believe in two weeks.
7 MR. PRICE: Yes, December 19th.
8 COMMISSIONER KJELLANDER: December 19th.
9 MR. PRICE: That's when it begins.
10 COMMISSIONER KJELLANDER: So please feel free to
11 send in some additional written comments if you so choose.
12 Before we close the hearing tonight, let me ask
13 one more time if there is anyone else who would like to provide
14 any testimony in this public hearing.
15 A VOICE: What was the deadline for written
16 comments?
17 COMMISSIONER KJELLANDER: It will likely be
18 December 19th, at the close of the technical hearing.
19 Historically through the Commission's process is that the
20 technical hearing sort of becomes -- once that's concluded and
21 we close that hearing process, we generally close the record.
22 There have been instances where that is extended if there needs
23 to be briefs provided, but I would count on the 19th more than.24 likely being the termination of the comment period.
25 Ladies and gentlemen, as we close up this
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1 evening, there is one thing that I would like to certainly
2 compliment you on: We were in Boise this week, holding some
3 technical hearings in another rate case. When we held the
4 public hearing in Boise, we had five people show up to testify.
5 It certainly is a pleasure, as a Commissioner, to be in a
6 communi ty where people care enough to get out and be involved,
7 and we certainly do appreciate that. So on behalf of Mack
8 Redford and Marsha Smith, I want to say that the Commission
9 certainly does appreciate it. It does matter to us to develop
10 a fully-explored record, and your participation and presence
11 here tonight has been greatly appreciated.
12 With that, then, we will conclude this evening's
13 hearing, and we will adj ourn again tomorrow night in
14 Saint Anthony for another round of public hearings. Again,
15 thank you for your time, and thank you for your testimony.16 (Applause. )
17 (The hearing concluded at 7: 56 p.m.)
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AUTHENTICATION
4 This is to certify that the foregoing is a
5 true and correct transcript to the best of my ability of the
6 proceedings held in the matter of the Application of
7 PacifiCorp, dba Rocky Mountain Power, for approval of changes
8 to its electric service schedules, Case No. PAC-E-11-12,
9 commencing on Wednesday, December 7, 2011, at the Downey Senior
10 Citizens Center, 21 South Main Street, Downey, Idaho, and the
11 original thereof for the file of the Commission..
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--/1/,:
WENDY J. MUR. Y.~. Nytary Public
in and for the ~te of Idaho,
residing at Mèridian, Idaho.
My Commission expires 2-8-2014.
Idaho CSR No. 475
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AUTHENTICATION