20090320Vol II Shelley.pdf

ORIGINAL
-e BEFORE THE IDAHO PUBLIC UTILÌTIES COMMISSION
)
) CASE NO. PAC-E-OB-07
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)
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) SETTLEMENT STIPULATION
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IN THE MATTER OF THE APPLICATION
OF PACIFICORP DBA ROCKY MOUNTAIN
POWER FOR APPROVAL OF CHANGES TO
ITS ELECTRIC SERVICE SCHEDULES
BEFORE
.COMMISSIONER JIM D. KEMPTON (Presiding)
COMMISSIONER MACK A. REDFORD
COMMISSIONER MARSHA H. SMITH
PLACE:Shelley City Hall
101 South Emerson Avenue
Shelley, Idaho
DATE:March 17, 2009
VOLUME II - Pages 106 - 123
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CSB REPORTING
Constance S. Bucy, CSR No. 187
23876 Applewood Way * Wilder, Idaho 83676
[phone] * [phone]
Email csb~heritagewifi.com
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1 APPEARANCES
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3 For the Staff:Scott Woodbury, Esq.
Deputy Attorney General
472 West Washington
Boise, Idaho 83720-0074
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6 For Rocky Mountain Power:Daniel E. Solander, Esq.
Rocky Mountain Power
201 South Main Street
Suite 2300
Salt Lake City, Utah 84111
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APPEARANCES
1 I N D E X.2
3 WITNESS EXAMINATION BY PAGE
4 Timothy Shurtz Statement 108
(Public)Mr.Woodbury (Cross)115
5 Commissioner Kempton 118
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1 SHELLEY, IDAHO, TUESDAY, MARCH 17,2009,7:00 P. M.
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4 COMMISSIONER KEMPTON: It's Tuesday, March
5 17th, 2009, 7:00 p.m., at the Shelley City Hall in
6 Shelley, Idaho. It's the date, time and place to conduct
7 a public hearing for the purpose of taking testimony on
8 the j oint application for approval of a settlement
9 stipulation filed by Rocky Mountain Power, Community
10 Action Partnership Association of Idaho, the Idaho
11 Irrigation Pumpers Association and Commission Staff as
12 noticed in Commission Order No. 30727, dated February
13 11th, 2009, more specifically, the application of Rocky
14 Mountain Power for approval of changes to its electric
15 service schedules and a price increase of 5.9 million, or
16 4 percent, noted as IPUC Case No. PAC-E-08-07.
17 The proceedings in this case are being
18 conducted in accordance with Commission jurisdiction
19 under Title 61 Idaho Code and Commission Rules of
20 Procedure under the Idaho Administrative Procedures Act
21 31.01.01. On my left is Marsha Smith, one of the
22 Commissioners from the Idaho PUC. On my right is Mack
23 Redford who the president of the Idaho PUC and Ilm Jim
24 Kempton and I'LL be Chairing the hearing tonight. I
25 should also -- I mentioned Scott Woodbury is our Attorney
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1 General and in the back is Marilyn Parker who is one of
2 our customer relations representatives for tonight's
3 hearing.
4 The revenue comparison between the case as
5 it was originally filed and where we are today in the
6 stipulation, the original proposal was for $5.87 million
7 and it was settled at $4.38 million. Across all the
8 classes, that amounts to a 4 percent increase if it was
9 on the originally filed case. As settled in the
10 stipulation, it i s 3.1 percent and in the customer
11 classes, the residential class, the proposed percentage
12 would have been 4.73 and with the settlement stipulation,
13 it became 3.53 percent, so I think you've probably seen
14 this information because it's been provided to the news
15 media and in the notices that have come out after the
16 stipulation was filed, so having said that, Timothy
17 Shurtz. Commissioner Smith -- do we have a Company
18 lawyer?
19 MR. SOLANDER: Yes, sir.
COMMISSIONER KEMPTON: Would you like to
21 come up?
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23
MR. SOLANDER: Sure.
COMMISSIONER SMITH: Make an appearance
24 for the record.
25 MR. SOLANDER: Sure. Would you like me to
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107 COLLOQUY
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1 do it here?
2 COMMISSIONER KEMPTON: Well, let's do it
3 here and then you can go ahead and come on up if you i d
4 like.
5 MR. SOLANDER: My name is Daniel Solander.
6 I i m appearing on behalf of Rocky Mountain Power. I also
7 have with me Ted Weston, our regulatory affairs manager
8 for the State of Idaho.
9 COMMISSIONER KEMPTON: Timothy Shurtz.
10
11 TIMOTHY SHURTZ,
12 appearing as a public witness, having been first duly
13 sworn, testified as follows:
14
15 EXAMINATION
16
17 BY MR. WOODBURY:
18 Q Mr. Shurtz, will you please state your
19 full name and spell your last name for the record?
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A Timothy Jarod Shurtz, S-h-u-r-t-z.
Q And what is your address, sir?
A 411 South Main, Firth, Idaho, 83236.
Q You may give your statement.
A Okay. I'd actually prepared a written
statement to begin with. I i II be more than happy to take
CSB REPORTING
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108 SHURTZ
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1 questions. I'm a big boy, we've done this a few times, ;
2 so Honorable Commissioners, I feel that the proposed rate
3 agreement with the parties that participated in the
4 settlement should be looked at. If you take the percent
5 of the request granted last year and then the one
6 proposed this year, you would see that Rocky Mountain
7 Power basically has been given what they asked for last
8 year. I'm going to -- I honestly feel that -- you know,
9 I looked at both and honestly, in two years' time, they
10 accomplished what their goals were from what I see.
11 Back to -- the request for a 10, and
12 correct me if I'm wrong, the request for a 10. 75 ROE was
13 tabled, was cut back by you in last year to 10.25 and I
14 see that they're asking again -- and forgive me, my time
15 has been very limited lately, I did not see where that
16 actually ended up in the stipulation and where that's at.
17 Their contention is that they need this, a higher ROE, to
18 attract investment from Wall Street firms to help them
19 get money. I would ask the question if Warren Buffett
20 owns Berkshire -- is it Berkshire? Yeah, theyl re one of
21 the biggest investment firms in the country, probably
22 what's left of Wall Street, we all what know happened to
23 our 401(k)s, I don't see where Utah or, excuse me, Rocky
24 Mountain Power would have a worry about getting financing
25 as long as it was a reasonable proj ect where they've got
CSB REPORTING
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109 SHURTZ
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1 the connections that they do have, so the contention that
2 they need to show a higher, to get more money, I really
3 can't see that.
4 Also, Rocky Mountain's generous offer to
5 give DSM money to the CAP agencies, you know, I myself, I
6 don i t wish to see the CAP agencies not do their charity
7 work in helping out, but that DSM money was meant to go
8 through all the classes and it also comes out of my money
9 through, you know, Commission Order. That money is set
10 aside for energy programs and I put here I really don't
11 like big brother making the decisions on what my charity
12 work should be. I think that, you know, kind of needs to
13 be looked at because 11m more than happy to see, you
14 know, Rocky Mountain Power provide some financing to the
15 CAP agencies, but taking it from the DSM budget, I think
16 that's being generous with someone else's money to an
17 extent.
18 Let's see. Okay, the other thing that I
19 had was, you know, in a time when we are having economic
20 slowdown and everything, the claim that they need more
21 money to improve the infrastructure and things like that,
22 I would honestly -- you know, I don't have access to
23 that. I want to see what the power consumption is at
24 this point as it has been in, let's say, 2007, 2008 and I.25 would almost think that with the downturn and things that
CSB REPORTING
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110 SHURTZ
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1 the consumption has gone down and we i re seeing some
2 reductions. Granted, you know, the infrastructure does
3 need to be looked after, but I think, you know, again,
4 we've got this DSM that i s supposed to try to bring down
5 and save power, I honestly think that should be looked at
6 as what, you know, in the light of what i s going on now
7 what are the Company's needs. The same thing with we've
8 got a lot of businesses, a lot of people are suffering,
9 we all know that. Is this rate -- you know, the BPA
10 credi t went away and no one knows, I don't know, when
11 it i S ever going to come back and I don't think anybody
12 else really honestly knows, but there's been a lot of
13 hard times put on the Rocky Mountain Power customers in
14 the last few years and in my conversations last year when
15 I signed off on the other agreement, it was Bryan Dickman
16 that said he thought, and this was just a personal
17 conversation between he and I, he stated that he thought
18 that we had put the Company on a sound footing at that
19 point and that's why I was surprised when this thing
20 was -- when the rate case was reentered and then as I
21 looked at, as I've mentioned before, at what the Company
22 is getting, basically the only thing they lost was a year
23 of revenue. Theyl re getting everything that they asked
24 for back in 2007, so, you know, I just really have some
25 feelings that at this time we are, the customers, the
CSB REPORTING
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111 SHURTZPublic
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1 large industries are, being pushed. You see almost a
2 6 percent increase for the large industrial users. You
3 know, that could push some of them over the edge. We
4 don't know and, you know, maybe that needs to be looked
5 at and asked of them.
6 The other thing I would ask the Commission
7 to look how well the residential and large power users
8 were represented in this agreement. While I know the
9 Commission Staff tries hard to represent us, I always see
10 the same class of customer taking the maj ori ty of the
11 share of the increase every time there is an agreement.
12 It may be time to look how the different customers are
13 represented. Over the years I've done a lot of these
hearings. My feeling is that your Commission Staff,
15 you've got a wonderful Staff. I like them. I just
16 talked to Scott and, you know, Scott and I have had our
17 differences over the years, but I appreciate his
18 professionalism that he proj ects and does his job and I
19 actually consider him a friend, but I look for honorable
20 people and Scott is -- you're very well served with him.
21 Every time I've come up here and looked at
22 who gets the short end of the straw, you have Monsanto
23 can hire top class legal representation, the Irrigators
24 are organized. They hire top class legal representation,.25 but the consumer, the people that are going to be bearing
CSB REPORTING
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112 SHURTZ
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1 the biggest burden do not usually hire anybody and, you
2 know, I've tried in the past, although representing
3 myself as an intervenor, I've tried to do the best I can
4 to represent the views of my friends and neighbors and
5 the constituents that I've served over the years and I
6 find it's just very hard in an agreement such as this
7 stipulation, the, to an extent the, customer -- you know,
8 Staff is doing their best. 11m not criticizing the
9 Staff, but being the customer that's going to bear the
10 brunt really does not have a delegate at the table and I,
11 you know, I might say a further word. 11m really sorry
12 that there's no more people here.
13 In years past I've taken the time to call
14 the news media and let them know what i s going on and call
15 the papers and spend the time so that we can bring people
16 in and alert people to what's happening. I, you know,
17 would like to see some future thought to a little more
18 advertising. I as a city official, I don't know how many
19 of the Commissioners have ever served on a city level,
20 but as a city official, when we do something, hold a
21 public meeting or hearing, we have to publish it in the
22 newspaper in the affected area and why we do press
23 releases out on the state level to announce these things,
24 I don't think very many people really look into it.
25 One of the comments in talking to one of
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113 SHURTZ
Public
.1 my friends was that the Company is supposed to let us
2 know about these things and I said, you can be sure the
3 Company let you know. It was in your bill. You have to
4 look for it, but, you know, I know the Company does their
5 due diligence in that matter because I over the years
6 have checked on those things and made sure that that is
7 so, but when you get a little note that says we're doing
8 this along with a few other flyers and things that come
9 with it and myself, I take mine over the Internet, I pay
10 through Internet, a lot of times you just overlook that
11 thing, so I think I would like to see more participation
12 as I'm sure the Commission would. I think a lot of it.13 gets lost in the j umble of people' s lives and, again,
14 we're here on St. Patrick's Day and I'm sure that there's
15 other people that are enjoying that, so there i s a lot of
16 conflicts and things that I feel, you know, need to be
17 kind of worked out, and one, notification to the
18 customer; two, notification of the hearings; and three,
19 trying to make it accessible.
20 One of the things I would maybe suggest as
21 well is that we look at teleconferencing. Send a hearing
22 officer over here to conduct the meeting and let you guys
23 do your job. I appreciate, I honestly appreciate, you
24 flying over and I'm really sorry that you did not get the.25 participation that you deserve for the time and effort
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114 SHURTZ
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1 that you gentlemen and lady put into this on our behalf.
2 I think that kind of concludes my
3 testimony. I'm open to any questions if anybody would
4 like to ask.
5 COMMISSIONER KEMPTON: Do you have any
6 questions?
7 COMMISSIONER SMITH: I do not. Thank
8 you.
9 COMMISSIONER REDFORD:No.
10 MR. WOODBURY: Yes.
11 COMMISSIONER KEMPTON: Scott, Mr.
12 Woodbury.
13 MR. WOODBURY: Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
14
15 CROSS-EXAMINATION
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1 7 BY MR. WOODBURY:
18 Q Mr.Shurtz,are you a standard residential
customer or a time of use customer?
A I'm time of use.
Q And does the Company offer any demand side
management programs that you Ire eligible for?
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A Yes, they do.
Q And have you participated in those?
A I have not participated in them personally
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115 SHURTZ (X)
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1 at this point. My house is kind of moving into remodel,
2 but I'm very aware of what's out there because Crofts or
3 Croft, one of the city councilmen, does some work for
4 them.
5 Q And I know that you're not here on behalf
6 of the City of Firth
7 A No.
8 Q but you have some familiarity with how
9 they do business. Do you know whether the city qualifies
10 for any demand side management programs?
11 A I am not sure on that. To be honest, I
12 have not checked. I know that Rod Barker, the Rocky
13 Mountain Power representative, has offered to come into
14 the Idaho Supreme and work with us on proj ects and
15 they've been very good at being in the forefront of
16 helping the local companies.
17 Q What is the population of the City of
18 Firth?
19 A It depends on what time of day it is, but
20 about -- the official population, I think, is 408 right
21 now, but we annexed some areas so we're pushing probably
22 about 500 in the next Census.
23 Q And how is your unemployment rate?
24 A I don't have the data on that.
25 Q You're familiar with the agencies that
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116 SHURTZ (X)
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.1 provide services under the Community Action
2 Partnership?
3 A Yes.
4 Q And do they provide any services that are
5 available in Firth?
6 A I know of some individuals that have.
7 Overall about half of our population falls under the
8 poverty level and there has been some weatherization done
9 to, I know of at least one home that has been done and
10 I'm thinking of possibly another one. I've got to admit,
11 one of the things that Rocky Mountain Power did do is
12 they donated some money to a walk path which is used by.13
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the whole community which has improved the quality of our
life, quality of life in the area, so I've got to commend
15 the Company on that. You know, my only view is that I
16 would prefer to see everyone get a little breather for a
17 change from the rates, but, again, the Community Action
18 Partnership has done some stuff and, you know, and the
19 Company has on their own been very helpful. They've done
20 some stuff for the City of Firth as well on the side that
21 they just did' out of the goodness of their hearts, so
22 there's been some benefit having Rocky Mountain Power as
23 a good customer or a good supplier of power to us.
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Q And did you file comment or testify at the
public hearing in the Company i s last rate case?
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117 SHURTZ (X)
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1 A Yes, I did.
2 Q And I think you started off your comments
3 indicating that they asked for an amount in that case and
4 then just came back into this matter asking for the rest
5 of it.
6 A No, what I'm saying is I didn't want to
7 give the impression -- that what my impression was that
8 if you took both rate cases in their totality that they
9 ended up with what they originally asked for. Whether it
10 was designed or managed that way, I do not know, but it
11 is kind of interesting that they come very close to the
12 mark that they sought in 2007 between the two rate
13 cases.
14 MR. WOODBURY: Thank you, Mr. Shurtz. I
15 have no further questions, Mr. Chairman.
16
17 EXAMINATION
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19 BY COMMISSIONER KEMPTON:
Q Mr. Shurtz, I have a couple of questions.
21 I think when I initially read this, you understood that
22 this was a settlement stipulation; is that correct?
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A Yes.
Q And were you aware that as a part of that
settlement stipulation that the specifics of elements
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118 SHURTZ (Com)
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1 like the return on equity and other things were not a
2 visible part of
3 A It was in a black box-type, yeah.
4 Q Correct, and the black box simply refers
5 to the fact that it was an agreement based on the revenue
6 requirements and then the mechanisms by which everybody
7 agreed that that revenue was adequate is not a visible
8 part of the stipulation.
9 A Yes, understood.
10 Q You mentioned Agrium and Monsanto, were
11 you aware that neither one of those companies are part of
12 this?
13 A Oh, yes, very much so. I was just
14 referring to they tend to -- Monsanto will bring their
15 lawyer, their lawyer in very quickly with anything to do
16 with energy, so yes, 11m aware that they're out of it.
17 Q Okay, and in the introductions, I
18 neglected to mention Gene Fadness who is the public
19 affairs representative in the Commission and were you
20 aware -- did you see the press release that was sent to
21 the local newspapers here on the 12th of February
22 concerning this?
23 A I can't say I actually remember reading
24 it. I check the web quite often. I know that Gene.25 Fadness does his job within what the budget and the
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119 SHURTZ (Com)
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.1 guidelines that he's given and he does it very well. If
2 you go on -- I don't know if Gene does the website,
3 manages the website as well, but the information that is
4 on those is always very good and very timely and
5 accurate, but it comes down to the point that the
6 si tuation with Rocky Mountain Power is this: Idaho Falls
7 is Idaho Falls Power. Pocatello is Idaho Power. What
8 that means is the maj or markets, media markets, really do
9 not have a vested stake to a degree, unless they're
10 prodded, to cover the outlying area, and as far as the
11 newspapers go, other than the Rexburg paper which prints
12 four days a week, the rest of the papers within the area,
13 I'm not sure, maybe Preston and Malad are different, I.14 apologize for not knowing that, the rest of the papers in
15 the area are once a week and are very as far as their
16 abili ty to go out and gather and, say, do anything is
17 very limited.
18 In the past I have had to take out a
19 full-page ad or an ad to advertise your hearings and I i ve
20 had people in the past that have been very good to donate
21 that, but this time where I was not an intervenor in this
22 case and because of time constraints on my, you know, of
23 myself, I really didn't have the time to prod the
24 newspapers and give them some calls and talk to anybody..25 That's why, you know, I'm not criticizing Gene's work
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120 SHURTZ (Com)
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1 because he provided the information as required and it's
2 up to the news media to take it up and unfortunately,
3 given the situation that we have here, what I just talked
4 about, this is what we're going to have unless we look at
5 other options in the future to try to raise public
6 interest, and believe me, when you ask somebody, the
7 people at my plant, they're used to me taking care of it.
8 They said go get them, go up there, and I had the feeling
9 that there would only be myself here because of past
10 experience and, you know, I've been to a number of these
11 where it gets pretty lonely, so, you know, Iid say we
12 might want to look at different options and different
13 ideas that we could do. You know, I've got some ideas,
14 but they all cost money and right now everyone knows the
15 state is about as broke as everybody else, so that i s
16 pretty much what my feeling is.
17 Q One last question. Did you see the notice
18 of public hearing anyplace else other than on the
19 Commission's website? Did you see it in any of the
20 publications locally?
A No, I didn't. To be honest, I honestly
22 didn i t look because I go -- every morning I go online and
23 Yahoo has a local news that gives me all the local
24 stations and everything and I've not seen one notice at.25 the local stations. The Rexburg Standard did not have
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121 SHURTZ (Com)
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1 anything either and I've been checking, you know, I check
2 that quite often, so I've really seen a gamut, but
3 nothing really was mentioned on the hearing, because,
4 again, it comes down to the local stations, local
5 newspapers, anything that has any interest do not really
6 publish or broadcast from Rocky Mountain Power
7 terri tory.
8 COMMISSIONER KEMPTON: Okay. Thank you
9 for your testimony, Mr. Shurtz.
10 THE WITNESS: Thank you.
11 (The witness left the stand.)
12 COMMISSIONER KEMPTON: I don't see anyone
13 else that would be here for testimony. Is there anyone
14 else here to provide testimony? There being none, I have
15 a couple of items for the record as far as future time
16 lines. The case will be fully submitted as of the close
17 of the public comment period on March 20. The
18 stipulation, application and all submitted testimony and
19 comments will be acted upon at a scheduled Idaho Public
20 Utili ties Commission decision meeting in the future. The
21 transcript for this hearing will be available in about
22 two weeks, less than two weeks, and if there's no further
23 business to come before the Commission, and seeing none,
24 this hearing is adjourned..25 (The Hearing adjourned at 7: 30 p.m.)
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1 AUTHENTICATION
2
3
4 This is to certify that the foregoing
5 proceedings held in the matter of the application of
6 PacifiCorp dba Rocky Mountain Power for approval of
7 changes to its electric service schedules, commencing at
8 7:00 p.m., on Tuesday, March 17,2009, at Shelley City
9 Hall, 101 South Emerson Avenue, Shelley, Idaho, is a true
10 and correct transcript of said proceedings and the
11 original thereof for the file of the Commission.
12
13
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15 s-
CONSTANCE S. BUCY
Certified Shorthand Reporter16
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123 AUTHENTICATION