20221118Customer Hearing Transcript Vol III.pdf

BEFORE THE IDA}IO PUBLIC UTTLITIES COMMISSION
IN THE MATTER OF IDAHO POV{ER
COMPANYI S APPLICATION TO
COMPLETE THE STUDY REVIEW PHASE
OF THE COMPREHENSIVE STUDY OT
COSTS AND BENEEITS OF ON-SITE
CUSTOMER GENER.ETTON & FOR
AUTHORITY TO ]MPLEMENT CHANGES
TO SCHEDULES 6, 8 AND 84
)
)
)
)
)
)
)
)
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cAsE NO. TPC-E-22-22
BEFORE
COMMISSIONER ERIC ANDERSON (Presiding)
COMMISSIONER .]OHN CHATBURN
PLACE:Commission Heari-ng Room
11331 West Chinden B1vd.Building 8, Suite 201-A
Boise, Idaho
DATE:November 3, 2022
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VOLUME III Pages 1 t.32
CSBREPORTING
Certified Sho rthand Reparkn
Post Office Bax9774
Boise,Idaho 83707
[e-mail]
Ph: 208-890-5198 Fa:r: l-888-623-6899
Reporter:
Constmce Bocy,
csR
e ORIGINAL
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CSB REPORTING
208.890.5198
APPEARANCES
For the Staff:(Of Record)
Chris Burdin
and Riley Newton
Deputy Attorneys General
11331 West Chinden Blvd.Building 8, Suite 20L-A
PO Box 83120
Bo j-se, Idaho 83720-0074
For Idaho Power Company:Lisa Nordstrom
and lfiegan Goicoechea Allen
L22t West Idaho St. (83702)
Idaho Power Company
PO Box '7 0
Bolse, Idaho 83707-0070
For Idaho Conservation
League:
Brad Eeusinkvel,d
Idaho Conservatj-on League
710 N. 6th Street
Boise, fdaho 83702
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APPEARANCES
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CSB REPORTING
208.890.5198
INDEX
WITNESS EXAMINAT]ON BY PAGE
James Taylor
( Public)
Statement 6
Don Kemper
( Public)
Statement I
Mol1y O'Sullivan
( PubIic)
Statement 10
Cliff Kel1ey
( PubIic)
Statement 13
Teri Ottens
( Public)
Statement 15
Terissa Morain
( Public)
Statement 19
AIex McKinley
( Public)
Statement 2t
Lisa Hecht
( PubIic)
Statement 24
Jacob Anderson
( Public)
Statement 27
Lyle Zufelt
( Public)
Statement 30
Nathan Grant
( Public)
Statement 33
Richard Sevi-er
( Public)
Statement 34
Jane Chandler
( PubIic )
Statement 36
Bryan Lawley
(Publ-ic)
39Statement
25
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CSB REPORTING
208.890.5198
INDEX (Continued)
WITNESS EXAMINATION BY PAGE
Jim Van Dinter
( Public)
Statement 44
Mark Utting
( Public)
Statement 46
David Chamberl-ain
( PubIic)
Statement 48
Nicholas Thomas
( PubIic)
Statement 53
Lori Graber
( Public)
Statement 56
Ken Christensen
( Public)
Statement 57
Rockford Hinten
( Public)
Statement 60
Rachael Mil]er
( Public)
Statement 61-
Lynn Jel-l-um
( Public)
Statement 64
Steve Nadeau
( Public)
Statement 66
Lisa Young
( PubIic)
Statement 69
Jesse Si-mpson
( Public)
Statement 15
Jeffrey F1l-1more
( Public)
Statement 78
Rachel Parke
( Public)
B1Statement
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CSB REPORTTNG
208.890. s198
INDEX (Continued)
WTTNESS EXAMINATION BY PAGE
Dylan Davis
( PubIic)
Statement 83
Ke1ly Helt
( Public)
Statement 85
Lou Evans
( Public)
Statement 87
Bob Davi-s
( Public)
Statement 9L
Mayisa Rahman
( Public)
Statement 94
Kylie Jackson
( PubIic)
Statement 96
Sidney Snider
( Public)
Statement 98
Sherlyn M. Becerra
( PubIic)
Statement 100
Janessa Jensen
( PubIic)
Statement 104
Sayed Mirbacha
( Public)
Statement r-06
Shiva Rajbhandari
(Publ-ic)
Statement 108
Jenna WeIIe
( Public)
Statement ]-t2
Cindy Su
( Public)
Statement 113
Jan McPherson
( Public)
tt6Statement
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CSB REPORT]NG
208 .8 90 . s198
INDEX (Continued)
WITNESS EXAMINATION BY PAGE
Eri-c Medina
( Public)
Statement 119
Davj-d Curry
( Public)
Statement 122
Chelsea Aleece
( Public)
Statement L24
Tyler Grange
( Public)
Statement !27
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208.890. s198
1
BOISE, IDAHO, THURSDAY,NOVEMBBR 3, 2022, 6:10 P. M
COMMISSIONER ANDERSON: Good
It I s very
everybody
conference
nice to have a large crowd
evening, everybody.
and good evening to
We built a bigin the overflow rooms, too.
room, but apparently it's not big enough, but
werre very happy to have everyone here, so officially,
we I re on the record right now and this will al-1 be
recorded and we have a court reporter that will- be doing
the recording, so we will begin.
It is 6:10, November 3rd, 2022, and it's the
time and place for the customer hearlng in Case No.
IPC-E-22-22, also referred to as in the matter of Idaho
Power Company's application to complete the study review
phase of the comprehensive study of costs and benefits of
on-sj-te customer generation and for authority to
implement changes to Schedules 6, 8, and 84.
Can everybody hear me okay? My name is
Commissioner Eric Anderson. I'm the Chair of tonight's
proceedings. I'm joj-ned with Commissioner John Chatburn
to my right and we comprise the Commission in this case
that wiII collectively make a final determinatj-on on this
matter.
To this point, several parties have intervened,25
COLLOQUY
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CSB REPORTING
208.890. s198
2
mul-tiple public workshops have been held by both the
Company and the Publ-ic Util"ities Commj-sslon. Tonightrs
objective j-s to take public which wil-l be added
l-n
testimony
this case.to the underlying record
will review the facts and
The Commissioners
evidence in the record and we
wil-l make our final decisions based on these
For those of you that are wishing
the deadl-ine is Eriday,
to
proceedings.
submit
written comments,
November 4th, at
tomorrow,
5:00 p.m. or before. We have sheets in
the lobby downstairs. You may wish to grab
andadd additional informati-on if you coul-d
you wish, you can come back and give them to
us tomorrow, but Adam Rush is our public information
officer, tf you
tonight and
please, if
of the record,
speak. That's a
consideration of
give them to
so sometimes
him, they will become
you get up and speak,
tonight, so if you
add that.
one of those
part
wetre
havegoing to have a time constraint
anything addi-ti-onaI, please do
We seem to have about 50 people
consj-derable amount, so
time is appreciated and
signed up to
the
if someone
before you has covered any points that you wish to sdy,
please defer to their comments and we wil-l- definitely
make notation of those on our records. We do take notes
up here on what's being said.
As far as the procedure goes this evening, I25
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will call- your name from a sign-up sheet and you will
take the stand and you will be sworn in. I will- ask you
to raise your right hand and swear or affirm that the
testimony yourre providing wiII be the whol-e truth. Then
the Deputy Attorney General down here, he'1I ask you a
few questions to make sure that you're official-Iy on the
record. He'11- ask your name and speIl your last name and
whether or not you're an Idaho Power customer.
Please remain seated after your testimony just
briefly in case any of the intervenors or the Commi-ssion
have questions and I'l-l- go ahead and give you a nod to
excuse you if nobody does. Typically nobody does, so
you're not going to be crossed under normal
circumstances, but our j-ntervenors and we do have the
privilege to do that.
For those in the audj-ence, we ask you to refrain
from any -- reacting to any testimony while it's
presented or after it's presented and this means no
clapping and no verbal comments and we appreciate your
willingness to respect this process. Since our cases are
judicial in nature, we have a court reporter, Connie
Bucy. Please don't speak too softly and not too fast or
Connie or I may need to give you a littl-e nudge to speak
up or sl-ow down for the purposes of ensuring that the
transcript is officially on the record, and it's going to
CSB REPORTING
208.890.5198
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208.890.5198
4
be Connie because she always beats me to that. She needs
to get this all recorded.
j udicial
record of
The transcript is necessary because in a quasi
roler we must base our decisions on the official
in the event
a part
thatsignificant
At
appearances
Idaho Power.
MS.
this point, Iet's
of parties. Letrs
which this is and that record is also
our decision is appealed.
begin by taking the
begin with the Applicant
NORDSTROM:Good evening. Irm Lisa
Idaho Power Company making ourNordstrom, counsel for
formal appearance and my co-counsel Megan Goicoechea
Al-l-en is joining me tonight.
COMMISSIONER ANDERSON :Thank you both for being
here. Next we have the Idaho Public Utilities
Commission.
MR. BURDIN: Thank you. I'm Chris Burdin
appearing on behalf of the Commission Staff. Co-counsel
Riley Newton is also appearing, but he is not here today.
Thank you.
COMMISSIONER ANDERSON: Thank you, Mr. Burdin.
Are there any other intervenors to the case that woul-d
like to introduce themselves?
MR. HEUSINKVELD: Brad Heusinkveld with the
Idaho Conservation League. Attorney of record Marie25
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208.890. s198
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Callaway Kel-Iner is not present at the moment.
COMMISSIONER ANDERSON: Wel-come. I thank you
al-l- and the bathrooms are on the first floor. Sorry
about that. We do have enough people if we try to get
I think we're going to
three minutes. We do
out of here within three hours,
try t.o refrain our testimony to
have a timer and there's a timer with a red,
green light, so
testifying, that
when it turns ye11ow and you'
yeIlow, and
re up here
means you have 15 seconds left and then
the red J-ight comes on and starts blinking each second
to yeII at anybody, soyou're over
just kind of
that, and I donrt want
wrap it up as
I know sometimes
quick as you can.
it's hard to do in that three
mj-nutes, but
testify and
the morning weather isthe way the
you testify
that you're
we want everybody to have an opportunity to
we don't want to be here to the wee hours of
with
AIso, Lf
written comments
tonight and you have
testifying from, Ms Bucy
her sowoul-d appreciate you leaving those
that she can double-check whatever you said to the
comments that you gave and she woufd appreciate that, So
with that, I am ready
Gi-ve me one
to cal-l- the f irst wi-tness.
minute, I need to make a count.
(Pause in proceedings. )
COMMISSIONER ANDERSON: Okay, we're off to the
comments with
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208 .890.5198
6 TAYLOR
PubLic
races. The first name I have on the list, and there's no
really rhyme or reason of the order to thisr so I
apologize if you were here first, you're not going to be
the ones up here fj-rst, the first person on the list is
James Taylor, and I'm goj-ng to give the on-deck personrs
name next, a1so, in case you're in an overflow room and
you need to get yourself up here and that would be, I
believe it says, Tom Taylor, so up to the witness stand.
appearing as
was examined
JAMES TAYLOR,
a public witness, having been duly sworn,
and testif ied as fol-l-ows:
EXAMINATION
BY MR. BURDIN:
0
l-ast name
Wou1d you please state your name and spel1 your
for the record?
James Taylor, T-a-y-I-o-r.
And where do you reside?
CaldweIl.
And are you an Idaho Power customer?
I am.
Thank you. Go ahead.
A
o
A
o
A
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CSB REPORTING
208.890. s198
7 TAYLOR
Public
A. Irve been
believe, and it's been
I'm one of the people
system 1s that old,
I installed my sol-ar in 201,6, I
working okay with Idaho Power.
that is grandfathered in sj-nce my
but. all I rea1Iy wanted
should be if I generate
to say was I
a kil-owatt
of power.
rea11y think that it
of power, I should be compensated a kilowatt
That's rea1Iy all I had.
COMMISSIONER ANDERSON: Thank you, Mr. Taylor.
Any questions? Thank you. Yourre excused.
(The witness left the stand. )
COMMISSIONER ANDERSON: I bel-ieve it's Tom
Taylor, I hope I read that right, and then on deck will
be Don Kemper.
MS. TAYLOR: My name j-s Jan Taylor, not Tom
Taylor, and my husband has already said everything f was
going to say.
COMMISSIONER ANDERSON: Thank you very much.
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208.890.5198
8 KEMPER
Public
appeari-ng as
was examined
DON KBMPER,
a public witness, having been duly sworn,
and testified as follows:
THE WITNESS: My name is Don Kemper. Irm an
Idaho Power customer. I live at l82L Edgecliff Terrace
in Boise. Is there anything else?
EXAMINATION
BY MR. BURDIN:
0. Will you spe1l your l-ast name for the record,
please?
A. K-e-m-p-e-r.
O. Thank you. Go ahead.
A. Since 202L, early 202Lt I have been a rooftop
solar co-producer in the net metering program. The point
I want to make is that what I do to help avoid blackouts
should be considered in calculating the exchange credit
rate. In setting rates, the Commj-ssion needs to l-ook at
the reliability of the electric service which is critical-
to Idaho's economy.
Idaho Power recognizes that in structuring the
time of use schedule to encourage people not to use power
duri-ng hiqh load perJ-ods. Now with so many more people25
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208.890. s198
9 KEMPER
Public
working from home, working remotely, the burden, the
economic burden, that comes from a power blackout is
shared by residential- users as wel-1 as commercial users.
During recent peak load periods, Idaho Power has
asked a1l- of its customers to cut back on power use in
part to avold blackouts, so they place a va1ue, so during
these peak hours, Idaho Power's own reporting to me shows
that I'm produci-ng excess surplus power to the grid
during the times they're worried about having a blackout,
so my help adds value to Idaho Power, not just to Idaho
Power, but to all- Idaho Power customers that I think you
have a commitment to.
During those times, I don't charge my car. I
cetera, but none ofcut back on my air conditioning, et
that is recognized by Idaho Power,
me to participate in a time of use
metering is not allowed in that, so
blackouts,
somehow be
exchange credit rate should be, and in
net metering customers should have some
of use schedule. Thank you.
COMMISSIONER ANDERSON: Thank
Mr. Kemper. Any
very much.
questions? You're excused. Thank you
both to Idaho Power and its customers, should
figured in to the calculatj-on of what the
nor do they even a11ow
schedul-e, because net
the avoided cost of
additj-on, I think
access to a time
you very much,
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CSB REPORTING
208.890.5198
O I SULLIVAN
Public
(The witness left the
COMMISSIONER ANDERSON :
AUDIENCE: MoIIy.
COMMISSIONER ANDERSON :
O'Sullivan, and on deck wil-l be
stand. )
Greg.
Mo1ly? Mol1y
Cliff Ke1Iy.
MOLLY OISULLIVAN,
appearing as a public witness, having been first duly
sworn, testif ied as fol-Iows:
EXAMTNATION
BY MR. BURDIN:
A. Will you please state your name and spe11 your
last name for the record?
A. Mo11y OrSullivan, O-'S-u-l--1-i-v-a-n.
A. And where do you reside?
A. Boise, Idaho.
a. And are you an Idaho Power customer?
A. No.
O. Thank you. Go ahead.
A. My name is Mo11y OrSullivan and Ifm a student at
Bishop Ke11y High School. Over the past several years,
I've led my school's environmental club and been active
in the Climate Justice League. Ul-timately, though, j-t's25
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CSB REPORTING
208.890.5198
O'SULLIVAN
Public
my personal connection to this planet that has led me to
fiqht so hard for its well-being. I am a sailor and I
come from a long line of sallors.
When you are on the water powering a boat with
nothing but the resources nature provides, wind and
water, you l-earn to read the natural world. I know how
to tune into the changes in currents and read the shifts
in the breeze. With this awareness, then I am al-so able
to see when the natural worl-d around me i-s suffering.
When wil-dl-ife is dying and the snow no longer
falls enough to supply water for the val-ley or the
reservoir where r sai1, I'm angered by our awareness of
environmental issues, yet unwillingness to sofve them.
Solar power j-s one of the proven effective sol-uti-ons we
have to combating climate change, and I was i-ncredibly
frustrated to fearn that Idaho Power has rel-eased a study
which undervalues l-oca1 solar.
Their study fails to account for the
environmental benefits that solar provides, taking only
biased data that supports
i-nterest and underval-ues
Idaho Power's financial
exporting credit rates by nearJ-y
five-fol-d. To make so-calLed clean energy commitments
and promote anything but is a viol-ation of the faith of
the community that depends on this power. This wil-l- have
dangerous consequences if we fail to recognize them.25
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CSB REPORTING
208.890.5198
O I SULLIVAN
PubIic
We have to call
our communities. To put
planetary health is not
the end contrary to our
Decreasing the benefits
local solar panel owners
making the
go soIar.
Change after all-
but it must be enabled by
of my future as sailor and
of a healthy community, we
you.
them out and demand better for
commerci-al interests above our
only unwise but unethical and in
own long-term interests.
of solar wil-l disincenti-vize
and prospective owners from
environmentally conscious, ethical choj-ce to
begins
those
on an indivldual 1eveI,
in power. For the sake
nature 1over, for the future
need accessible so1ar. Thank
COMMISSIONER ANDERSON: Thank you,
Ms. O'Sullivan. Any questions? Just a reminder. Thank
you -
(The witness left the stand. )
COMMISSIONER ANDERSON: NCxt wE hAvC Cliff KEllY
and on deck will be Terj- forgive me if I pronounce the
names wrong -- Teri Ohens? Anyhow, that's on deck.
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CSB REPORTING
208.890.5198
CLIEF KELLEY,
appearing as a publ-ic witness, having been first duly
sworn, testified as follows:
EXAMINATION
BY MR. BURDTN:
O. Would you please state your name and spelI your
last name for the record?
A. Itrs Cliff or actually Robert Clifford Ke11y.
Last name is spelled K-e-l-1-e-y.
. And where do you reside?
one that Idaho Power
cooperative costs us
biennially.
Vihat I see
an Idaho Power customer?
Power net metering customer.
just got done performing on what our
annually and certainly no less than
as the problem with Idaho Power's
o
A
O
A
o
A
Payette.
And are you
IdahoItm an
Thank you. Go ahead.
As a residential f tm a residential sol-ar
owner. Irm also a member of the ldaho Sol-ar Owners
Network. Before I was an Idaho Power customer, I was
director for an electric cooperative and so Irm very
familiar with the cost of service analysi-s such as the
KELLEY
Public
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CSB REPORTING
208.890. s198
KELLEY
PubIic
VODER study is
the issue. A
compensate for
because I
guessing,
the cost
it I s actually
$5.00 a month
the rate structure that I s
service fee can in no way
Idahothe cost of being connected to
Power's utility.
recovered in the connection fee,
transferred to the kilowatt-hour
The fixed costs instead
they're
charge
Idaho
of being
being
and that Ieads to
issues when it comes to solar compensation.
Anyway, I was -- my usage was being subsidized
by other customers even before I had solar panels,
rate.
The utility
had the objective of
energy effi-ciency, so I consume, I'm
average number
connected to
of kilowatt-hoursr so
Powerrs utility
kilowatt-hour
that I was with being a cooperative
providj-ng service at cost to the
practice
below the
of my being
was borne by other customers through the
membersr so we were very careful about where we assigned
checked thecosts and IfIl just say that I recently
service fee for that utility. It was over $53.00 a
month, and with being able to recover fj-xed costs in the
service charge, then the kj-lowatt-hour eharge doesn't
need to be excessively raised to recover those costs from
the wrong customers, and last1y -- well
COMMISSIONER ANDERSON: Finish your statement.
THE WITNESS: Last1y, I'd like to say I have an25
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irrigation account on my property and f think it's
entirely reasonabl-e that I should be abl-e to offset that
account, transfer credits from my residential sol-ar to
offset the irrigation.
COMMISSIONBR ANDERSON: Thank you, Mr. Ke11ey.
Are there any questions? Thank you very much. Yourre
excused.
(The witness left the stand. )
COMMTSSIONER ANDERSON: Teri Ottens and on deck
wil-I be Terissa Morgan.
appearing as
was examined
TERI OTTENS,
a public witness, having been duly sworn,
and testified as follows:
EXAMINATION
BY MR. BURDIN:
O. Woul-d you please state your name and spe11 your
last name for the record?
A. Teri Ottens, O-t-t-e-n-s.
O. And where do you resj-de?
A. Caldwel1, Idaho.
O. And are you an Idaho Power customer?
A. I am.
OTTENS
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O. Thank you. Go ahead.
A. I'm representing myself and my husband Mark.
We're rooftop solar owners. We're members of the Idaho
Solar Owners Network as wel-l-. The Idaho Power VODER -- I
hope I'm saying that right study is very complicated
with lots of ca1culations and adjustments that are at
times hard to understand for the average customer, but
what we have understood from other testimony is that the
study has underval-ued other benefits that solar provides
to the utility, avoided costs and environmental benefits
to name two of them.
If the PUC ignores these other calculations
whil-e making their decision, they will be doing solar
owners and Idahoans a great disservice that will affect
our chil-dren and grandchil-dren. We'd like to come at
this issue from a solar owner's point of vj-ew. Basical-Iy
we feel like we own a small- power company. We paid for
the equipment, the instal-lation, the connections to the
Idaho Power system to transmit kilowatts and we pay for
the maintenance and repair of our
Duri-ng the summer months,
power.
during
other
system.
we literally give
Idaho Power to use
around and charges
We give 5,000 kilowatts to
peak periods who then turns
customers at the higher peak summer rates.
winter when we need to utilize ourDuring the25
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OTTENS
Publ-ic
kilowatts,
the lower
dealing in
sellinq my
that serves
expanding,
understand
advantage,
Idaho Power provides them back essentially at
winter rates. If we were a real company and
cash, I wou1d be makj-ng money
kilowatts at the higher rate
off this deal-
in the summer
by
and
buying them back at the lower
apparently this study says I
for my kil-owatts when I want
paying for fuII usage of the
is that we don't even use the
of the year when we
util-ize within our
Idaho Power
usr but in reality,
because our power j-s
next-door neighbors
through the
For
generate
rate in the winter, but
should not get fu1l val-ue
them back, because f'm not
system, but the way I see it
system for eight months out
our own power j-nternally to
own system.
says they' re stori-ng our energy for
it's an administrative function,
actually immediately going to our
a few hundred feet away and not
whol-e Idaho Power transmissj-on system.
every dollar we've invested in our system,
Idaho Power in peak periods they say by not
j-mproving, or buil-ding new sites. We do
that we are still using the system to our
so l-et's tal-k service fees. I rm charged $5. 00
for a service fee to use the system and so is every other
residential customer. If that fee is not enough to cover
customer usage of the system, then we submit that it is
that charge that should be under study and that the25
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Public
utility should come up with a fair fee that covers the
charge all residential customers the same
system.
costs and then
for using the
We submit that our usage of the system, whil-e
it's different than the normal customer, is no more and
possibly less. And a word on the subsidies. The concern
is somewhat questionable
and irrigatj-on
because from what I understand,
industrial get
but I
subsidies and theyrre
subsidized by other customers,don't see
USETS
anyone
be made.crying over that
Renewabl-e energy
Ir{hy make it more
doing their part
that adjustmentsor demanding
is and must
expens.r-ve
support
rooftop
be our hope for the future.
environment through
and discourage cj-tizens from
Idaho Power and protect our
solar?
COMMISSIONER ANDERSON: Thank you, Ms. Ottens.
THE WITNESS: Thank you.
COMMISSIONER ANDERSON: Any questi-ons? You're
excused. Thank you very much.
(The witness l-eft the stand. )
Terissa Morgan and on deck will be Alex
McKinley.
to
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MORAIN
Public
TERISSA MORAIN,
appearing as a public witness, having been first duly
sworn, testif ied as fol-l-ows:
EXAMINATION
BY MR. BURDIN:
0. Would you please state your name and spell your
l-ast name for the record?
A. My name is Terissa. Last name is Moraln,
M-o-r-a-i-n.
O. And where do you reside?
A. Blackfoot, fdaho.
a. And are you an Idaho Power customer?
A. Yes.
O. Go ahead, please.
A. I actually work with a solar company and so a
couple of the points that I wanted to make here j-s the
impact of solar 5-n general on the working occupation here
and people who are in school. We actually have about 40
technicians who go through ISU to get their trade
licensing of which we provide their hours, that they're
able to work through the company. We employ about 115
employees in the area that are local and just what we've
got going on wj-th Idaho Power and how that will directly25
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CSB REPORTING
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MORAIN
Publi-c
affect our employees in general and the people in the
area that are invol-ved in sofar, not just as a renewable
energy but as their lifestyle and as their occupation and
Irm sorry, Irm not a great public speaker.
The other thing that we had brought up before
was in 20L9 when this was first addressed, Idaho Power
then gave us a certain amount of time j-n order to then
apply to have soIar,
announced in December
and during this period, it was
and we were gi-ven l-ess than 30 days
andto consider solar, to evaluate
then to turn around and invest
large dol-l-ar amount.
it, the pros and cons,
in something at a very
I would ask that if this does go
one,
through that we
installed sofardo consider the customers that have
between 2019 and currentJ-y and were not given adequate
time to really
also ask that if it does take place that we
that it is on an equal
sense to both parties.
basis and profitabl-e
At the current rate that we've got going on with
Idaho Power, it does not seem to make sense for the
consumer so much as it does for the utility and that's
all I had.
COMMISSIONER ANDERSON: Thank you. Are there
any questions? Thank you very much for your testimony.
research and then invest in sol-ar, and I'd
do consi-der
or makes
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CSB REPORTING
208.890.5198
McKINLEY
PubIic
(The witness left the stand. )
COMMISSIONER ANDERSON: Alex McKinley and on
deck is Lisa Hecht.
ALEX McKINLEY,
appearing as a public witness, having been duly sworn,
was examined and testified as follows:
EXAMINATION
BY MR. BURDIN:
O. WilI you please state your name and spel1 your
l-ast name for the record?
A. Alex McKinley, M-c-K-i-n-1-e-y.
O. Where do you reside?
A. Boise.
O. And are you an ldaho Power customer?
A. Yes.
O. Thank you. Go ahead.
A. I am an Idaho Power customer. Itm also a
rooftop sol-ar owner and the owner of a ]ocaL sofar
install-ation company, so I have a few different fingers
i-n anin different pies. Idahoans are eager to invest
efficient, resilj-ent, and modern electrical
however, it is unfortunate that Idaho Power
grid;
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view customer-owned generation as a threat instead of as
an asset.
When valued fairly, sol-ar power and other
distributed renewable generation can help reduce our
independence on j-mported electricity, provide cost
stability for aI1 customers, and Iimit the impacts of the
heat wave and droughts that we are increasj-ngly facing.
I think f would just like to ask the Commi-ssion
in this case to -- well-, in evaluating a1l the data also
consider the context that it comes i-nto, the history of
these cases over the past and some of the discrepancies
in how Idaho Power has acted or could have acted if they
were rea11y acting in good faith and treating this as a
cost-benefit analysis that was an actual analysis.
There arenrt any other customer groups that
Idaho Power is looking lnto to study subsj-dies from one
group to the other. They continually mention that,
though, when they tal-k about solar and other renewable
on-site generators. They don't talk about rural versus
urban customers. They donrt talk about people who have
second homes and don't use very much power compared to
people who have primary residences that consume more
power. They don't do that and so f think that context
matters.
You know, they say they're collaborating with
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the public and the intervenors in this case and they
provide them with data, but they have a web page already
up about this case that talks about the result and the
rates that wil-I come out of it and so, you know, theyrre
presupposing the result and publishing it before this
case has even come to a compJ-etion.
As another person mentioned, they have time of
use rates, but they don't al-low customers with sofar
generation to be a part of that. That cou1d be used to
study how people interact and change their usage and
consumption patterns when they have renewable generation
so they could be gaining data. They could be doing
things that coul-d be helping us actually better
understand the issue rather than pushing a single
narrative. It worrj-es me that we're going to create a
system that dj-sincentivizes the actions we actually want.
People have mentioned previously that Idaho
Power asked customers to reduce their consumption at peak
load times. I talk to peopJ-e as an installer who sdy,
you know, I want to go solar and if Idaho Power changes
their rates, I'11 just make sure that I turn up my AC in
the summertime so I donrt export any electricity to them.
I can tell my car to charge itself in the afternoon in
the sunrmer and then I wonrt export electricity, so i-f we
don't get thls right, we're going to potentially end up
CSB REPORTING
208.890. s198
McKINLEY
Publ-ic
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208.890.5198
HECHT
Public
in a situation where we're disincentivizing the actlons
we wanted to incentj-vize, and so I just ask that the PUC
work towards a fair and balanced cost-benefit analysis,
which is what was initially
Thank you very much
ordered in this case.
for your time.
Thank you,COMMISSIONER ANDERSON :Mr. McKinley.
testimony.Are there any questions? Thank you for your
(The witness l-eft stand.)
COMMISSIONER ANDERSON: Lisa Hecht
Jacob Anderson.
and on deck
LISA HECHT,
appearing as a public witness, having been first duly
sworn, testified as fol-lows:
EXAMINATION
BY MR. BURDIN:
O. Will you
last name for the
please state your
record?
is Lisa Hecht, "H"
name and spe1I your
A. My name
in electricity,
'rTrr as in tree.
AS j-n house, ttEtt as
rrHrr as in house,rrc, as in Commission,
0. And where do you reside?
A. 4920 East Sagewood Drive, Boise, Idaho, 83716.25
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Publ-ic
I apologize, I'm going to
I've got to wear this mask
O. And are you an
A. I am an Idaho
visit my 9O-year-o1d mother, so
to protect her.
Idaho Power customer?
Power customer. Irm an ldaho
Power shareholder. I attend the IRPs and f have for many
years, and I'm also a retired electrical and computer
engineer
o.
A.
I'd Like to make. I'm already
testimony. The first one is I
important that the Commission
i-ndependent assessment of the
for Hewlett-Packard --
Thank you. Go ahead, please.
and a mother of two, so I have a
submitted some
few points
written
value of solar,
basically, so you don't have the situation of
guarding the henhouse.
Secondly, even though
calculate, we shoul-d take into
it may be difficult to
account health impacts.
most important
are beyond value
cardiopulmonary
as the adverse
beli-eve that it' s
use or at least include an
very
the fox
part of any economj-c is the
and that is our health.
impacts and other heal-th
impacts on COVID 19 which was
The absolute
things that
Estimates of
impacts such
documented by a Harvard study are available.
Thirdly, I think j-t's important to evaluate the
risks and costs of undervaluing solar and the PUC is
charged with looking at things like risk and cost to all25
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CSB REPORTING
208.8 90. 5198
HECHT
Public
customers. The risks and costs of undervaluing solar
include insufficlent power for the rapid, I would say,
el-ectrj-c vehicles, whi-ch w111 beexponential growth of
acceferated by current
well- as the increased
previously passed
heat we are seeing
legj-sIation, as
now that is also
Company, sel-Is credits
who self-generate be
projected by multiple studies, including the McCl-ure
Group, and by valui-ng solar that is on rooftops, we are
conservi-ng land for agriculture and it wiII be important
to be able to feed ourselves with all the growth that we
are seer-ng.
Lastly, IPC, Idaho Power
to many
able to
customers. Shouldn't we
be compensated for some of those credits that we
make avail-abl-e for them to sel-l? That is it and I
appreciate that the Commission has made this ability to
comment available to the public, too, in order to
incorporate a large and varj-ed number of comments from
the public.
COMMISSIONER ANDERSON: Thank you, Ms. Hecht.
Are there any questions?
THE WITNESS: Oh,
Thank you
solar on my roof since 2016
I forgot
and Itve
excess credits and at one point I had
hours' worth.
for your testl-mony.
one thing. I've had
been generating
three megawatt
COMMISSIONER ANDERSON: Very good note.25
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CSB REPORTING
208 .8 90 . 5198
ANDERSON
Public
(The witness l-eft the stand. )
COMMISSIONER ANDERSON: Jacob Anderson. On deck
Lyle Zufelt.
JACOB ANDERSON,
appearing as a public wltness,
sworn, testified as follows:
having been first duly
EXAMINATION
BY MR. BURDIN:
O. Wou1d you please state your name and spe11 your
last name for the record?
A. Jacob Anderson, A-n-d-e-r-s-o-n.
o.
A.
o.
A.
o.
A.
always
had a
And where do you resj-de?
Boise.
And are you an Idaho Power Company customer?
Yes.
Thank you. Go ahead.
Okay, my
cared about
interest in this topic is that I've
clean energy
from Boise
and because of that, I
local company install sol-ar panels on my
energy than
my neighbors'
roof earlier this year. When I produce more
I need, it goes back to the grid and powers
houses.25
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208.890.5198
ANDERSON
Publ-ic
fdaho Power was born with a gift that any
utility woul-d envy; abundant, cheap hydroelectric
potential due to Idaho's snowy mountains whose snow melt
fitls the rivers even after the snow and rain stops in
the spring. Our society is trying to fight climate
change and that requires all of us to pollute 1ess.
Unfortunately, electric utilities are among the worst
polluters and they are dragging their feet in doing their
part to fix the problem.
For example, despite Idaho Power's l-uck j-n
havj-ng a head start with its hydroelectric resource, it
set distant 2045 as its goal for belng carbon net zexo
and right now in 2022 is still- buying a 1ot of
out-of-state coal-powered electricity.
In addition to making our forests more flammable
and our air smoki-er, climate change threatens Idaho's
suflrmer snow melt. It wil-1 mean less water f lowing
through the dams at the same time that hotter
temperatures drive up out air conditioning use. If Idaho
Power's ratepayers are going to continue to have access
to affordable summer hydroelectricityr w€ al-I need to act
on cl-imate change now, not in far-off 2045, so when an
army of homeowners is willing to their own
right now to generate
help power their own
their own
put up
carbon free
neighborhoods, saving
power
Idaho
capital
and
Power25
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from having to put money into expensive transmissj-on and
distribution l-ine upgrades, saving fdaho Power from
having to build expensj-ve new power plants, why does
Idaho Power dj-scourage them by trying to low ball the
val,ue of the power they feed into the grid?
Why is Idaho Power usi-ng so many worker hours to
put forth a 1ong, detailed, yet biased report that an
independent study demonstrates undervalues every single
aspect of the value of customer power generatj-on.
If Idaho Power rea11y thinks that
customer-generated energy is only worth a couple cents
per kilowatt-hour, maybe they would let my neighbors buy
it for four cents per kilowatt-hour when I'm exporting
power to the grid right next to their houses. f don't
think they would.
ff not stopped, climate change means a hotter,
drier, smokj-er, and more flammable future for Idaho Power
and more of
their part to
and a poor hydroelectric
Idaho Power's customers
resource. More
are willing to
to climate
do
contribute to the solutions change and Idaho
Power needs to cooperate with them instead of trying to
cheat them. Thank you.
COMMISSIONER ANDERSON: Thank You, Mr. Anderson.
Any questions? Thank you for your testimony.
(The witness l-eft the stand. )25
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208 .8 90 . 51 98
ZUFELT
Public
Lyle.
appearing as
was examined
COMMISSIONER ANDERSON: LyIe and forgive me,
AUDIENCE: Zufelt, that's fine.
COMMISSIONER ANDERSON: On deck Nathan Grant.
LYLE ZUEELT,
a public witness, having been
and testified as follows:
duly sworn,
THE WITNESS: Lyle Zufelt, Z-u-f-e-I-t. I
reside in Middleton, Idaho. f am an Idaho Power
customer, ds I assume the members of the Commission and
a1l- of you mostly are. It's short-sighted to
from a solar farm
sdY, you
for a 1otknow what, we
less than Lyle
case, but with
can buy power
generates on hj-s rooftop.
the customer base expanding
That may be the
year over
year, you will find yourselves in a position where you
can't buy enough energy.
Other states, Californj-a, Ari-zona, Nevada, they
will be vying for the same el-ectrj-city that's generated
by these solar farms. At that point it's going to be too
Iate to sdy, please put in solar. We'II pay you fulI
value for the energy you create.
Si-nce I put solar panels on my roof, I've had
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ZUEELT
Public
When I told them Idaho Power is
credit for
looking at reducing the
and when I tol-d the
neighbors
the power
hold off,
we generate
because I donrt know if I'm going to
span that my
if I'm going to
you know what,
staffing of the
rate that we
get my
we'11 hold off and wait. They're going to wait until
June of next year for the determination.
You will- find yourselves in a position as the
customer base expands, you won't be abl-e to buy power.
At that point the power that I generate wil-I be -- will
be a lot more valuable and if you cut off the incentive,
people are going to stop laying out the thousands and
thousands of dollars.
I agree with the lady who said,you know, the
for the
get the
panels
original argument,
mai-ntenance of the
offices so he's not
9et, but the $5.00
every month for the
money back over the 2}-year life
are expected to Iast, I don't know
investment back, they've aIl- said,
well, Lyle doesn't pay
power lines or for the
entitl-ed to the same
that I pay every month and will pay
rest of my life should more than
cover my share of the maintenance of the power l-i-nes and
the staffing of the offices.
As Idaho Power customers, I guess I can't ask,
but I will assume we all, especially the members of the
Commj-ssJ-on, need to realize the customer base is25
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expanding and if we don't expand the potential for power
generation by solar panel owners, we will find
ourselves you're pretty old, you might not be around
to see the bad effects down the 1ine, but werve got to
look ahead. Werve got to look ahead for the sake of our
children, our grandchildren.
Itfs clean energy. Idaho Power didnrt have to
pay a penny for the power I generate. Al"1 I want j-s fair
credit, kilowatt-hour for kilowatt-hour. Thanks.
COMMISSIONER ANDERSON: Thank you, Ly1e. Are
there any questions of LyIe? Thank you for your
testimony.
THE WITNESS: You look like you're in great
shape.
COMMISSIONER ANDERSON: Oh, thank you. Okay,
we've got that one cleared up so we don't need to bring
that up again. Thank you.
(The witness left the stand. )
COMMISSIONER ANDERSON: Nathan Grant, thank you,
and on deck we'l-l- have Rich Sevier.
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Public
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NATHAN GRANT,
appearing as a public wj-tness, having been first duly
sworn, testified as follows:
EXAMINATION
BY MR. BURDIN:
O. Would you state your name and spel1 your last
name for the record, please?
A. My name i-s Nathan Grant, G-r-a-n-t.
O. And where do you reside?
A. Caldwel1.
O. And are you an Idaho Power customer?
A. I am.
O. Thank you. Go ahead.
A. I just wanted to get up herer so i-n August we
got our -- me and my wife and our couple of kids, we got
our solar instal-1ed and a big reason why we were doing it
as a young family was to fix costs, right? We knew
because Idaho Power sent out a flyer this year that rates
increased, right, whi-ch i-s natural with what's happening
this year, but we as a young family, we want to fix as
many costs as possible, right, like living on a budget is
important to us, so we went solar to fix that cost.
Well, knowing that there's a potentj-al that this
GRANT
Public
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SEVIER
Public
gets changed with Idaho Power to where we aren't gi-ven
fuII credit hour for every kilowatt-hour we produce, that
would then make me now spend even more money, rightr so
that just defeated the purpose of why we go soIar, so I
think it's very important, especially for young families
on budgets and also for older people that are on fixed
incomes, that they're allowed to get kilowatt-hour for
kilowatt-hour.
Itrs been said by multiple people. I just
rea11y wanted to emphasj-ze that there a 1ot of peopJ-e
that live on budgets and bej-ng able to fix that cost is
very important to families and to rea11y everybody.
COMMISSIONER ANDERSON: Thank your Mr. Grant.
Are there any questions? Thank you for your testimony.
(The witness left the stand. )
COMMISSIONER ANDERSON: Richard Sevier and I
know I probably got that wrong, too. On deck werll have
Jane Chandler.
appearr-ng as
was examined
RICHARD SEVIER,
a public witness, having been duly sworn,
and testified as follows:
THE WITNESS: My name is Richard Sevier. I 1j-ve
in Boise. I'm an Idaho Power customer and we had rooftop25
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SEVIER
Public
solar installed earlier 1n the summer.
EXAMINATION
BY MR. BURDIN:
0. Woul-d you please spell your last name for the
record?
A. Oh, Irm sorry, S-e-v-i-e-r.
Thank you. Go ahead.
So there's been a bunch of rea11y great
rooftop sol-ar
o
A
testimony here amplifying the
and challenging Idaho Powerrs
energy should be compensated
a l-ot about the environmental
benefits of
assessment of what that
at. Mol1y O'Sullivan spoke
is atimpact, which I think
the heart of this and I know Idaho Power has a duty to
its ratepayers to be economically or be fiscally
responsible and things l-ike that, but every day we watch
the news and we watch glaciers mel-t at a rate faster than
anticipated. We watch whatfs going on in Pakistan with
floods and so on.
V{e just watch the environmental ruin unfol-d
right before our eyes, and rooftop sofar is the one
impactful thing, owning an electric car is probably
another impactful thing that we as individuals can do to
thwart what's going on, and I think for Idaho Power to25
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CHANDLER
PubIic
diminish or reduce what it expects to compensate rooftop
solar generators at is a slap in the face to anyone who
wants to reduce their carbon footprint and it says a Iot
about how they feel- about the planet as a wholer so
that's where I'm going to leave it. Thank you.
COMMISSIONER ANDERSON: Thank you very much for
your testimony. Any questlons? Thank you, sir.
(The witness left the stand. )
COMMISSIONER ANDERSON: Jane Chand]er and on
deck we'11- have Bryan Law1ey.
JANE CHANDLER,
appearing as a public witness, havj-ng been duly sworn,
was exami-ned and testif ied as follows:
EXAMINATION
BY MR. BURDIN:
O. Would you please state your name and spelI your
last name for the record?
A. ,Jane Chandler, C-h-a-n-d-1-e-r.
O. And where
A. I'm sorry, Irm a little out of breath. If m very
pregnant and f had to walk upstairs.
A. Vfhere do you reside?25
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CHANDLER
Public
A
o
A
o
A
Boise, Idaho.
And are you an Idaho Power customer?
I sure am.
Thank you. Go ahead.
. Okay.
that we're
first is that the PUC needs to
To me, I see that there are three issues
not necessarily taking into account. Thehere
act in support of the
monopoly. The PUC existspublic good. Idaho Power
to protect the public.
The second is the
is not objective;
that we hold dear
r_s a
study that Idaho Power
and the third is that Idaho has
put out
a val-ue
andof supporting small businesses
growing industries.
First of aII, the PUC needs to act in the public
good. Rarely do we have an opportunity to do good and
have real impact and we shouldn't take this 1ight1y.
Climate change is happening. We've seen devastating
floods in Pakistan. Werve seen many people die. We have
the opportunity to support an industry that can really
combat and reverse that. We can be part of the solution
and we should al-1 rea11y, rea11y value that.
The second is that the study that Idaho Power
The Idaho Conservation League
from the Cross-Border
I believe. I didn't write that down, but
put out is
supported a
Initiative,
not objective.
different study
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CHANDLER
Publ-ic
that actually does l-ook at a more
we should be thinking of when we
holistic view of what
think of
solar power, so the reason why the study
regenerative
is not objective
economic,is that it doesn't take into account the
environmental r or quality of l-if e benef j-ts.
It also doesn't take into account that rooftop
solar reduces the demand at peak times and makes a more
relj-able and resil-ient grid. If power goes out at a
generation site, I could give power to my neighbor.
FinalIy, Idaho has a tradition of supporting
smal-l- businesses and growing industry. What Idaho Power
is suggesting would fundamental-1y ki11 the sofar
industry. It woul-d take away a 1ot of jobs from smal-I
business owners and, quite frankly, that doesn't align
wi-th our state's values.
We have the value of allowing peopl-e to grow and
flourish and make their own choices and what Idaho Power,
a large company and a monopoly,
Iine with everything our state
COMM]SSIONER ANDERSON :
is doing l-s really out of
stands for. Thank you.
Thank you for your
Thank you verytestimony. Are there any questions?
much.
Jim Van Dinter.
(The witness l-eft the stand.)
COMMISSIONER ANDERSON: Bryan Lawley and on deck
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Public
BRYAN LAWLEY,
appearing as a public witness, having been first duly
sworn, testified as follows:
EXAMINATION
BY MR. BURDIN:
O. Would you please state your name and speI1 your
l-ast name for the record?
A. Bryan Lawley, L-a-w-l-e-y.
O. And where do you reside?
A. Boise, Idaho.
O. And are you an Idaho Power customer?
A. Sure am and a rooftop Schedule 84 grandfathered
solar user and owner of one of the larger sol-ar companies
here 1ocaIIy.
A. Thank you. Go ahead, please.
A. I apprecj-ate everybody attending. I go back a
long time. This is my third major rate case. I started
my company l-n
individuals in
beating a dead
back and back
look, I think
history of the
20L0. I have employed over
this state, so I feel- Like
horse with this and it just
1-00 l-oca1 Idaho
we just keep
keeps coming
realIy take a
about the
and I urge the
one gentleman
comments and
Commission to
said earlier,
the testimony provided by25
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PubIic
Idaho Power up until this point, consider the directive
that you guys put forth in 2019 on how this study was to
be completed and how i-t was supposed to be readily
understandable by a general consumer.
You don't
Itrs pretty tough if you're a general- consumer.
live the role that we 1j-ve in or an engineer or
some sort of power background to understand anyyou have
of what
the dead
you live under a rock, the value of
not 3.8 cents per kilowatt-hour, so
Commj-ssion determine that, what the
theyrre talking aboutr so I donrt want to beat
horse of a completely biased study, but unl-ess
excess generation is
I r 11 l-et the
Cross-Border energy
study that says the industry put forth as cross
testimony, in my opinion, in hopes of not even allowing
this study to be considered val-id and kick it out the
door and we move on.
I want to make some other points. Irve got some
bul-lets here, So bear wit.h me. I employ 21 full-time
employees here 1oca1ly. Most of those are Idaho natives,
seven other independent contractors that do sales, design
other functions within my business. Again, coming up on
13 years in this industry, which Irve seen it all. Irve
seen an industry from an economic standpoint stand itself
up and become one of the fastest growing job producers in
this state 1ocal1y.25
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LAWLEY
Publ-ic
I also want to urge the Commission that we know
you're Governor appointed. The Governor signed off on a
document T have here and I just highlighted some points
that I think are important to understand for the history
of Idaho's energy supply, so this Order No. 2020-tB that
Governor Little signed back in 2020, just reading bul-Iet
points through here, increase energy supply.
population is outrunning that. You're going
time and time again tonight, whether that's,
the message from Idaho Power internally, but
the matter is population is outrunning what
Wel-l-, the
to hear that
you know,
the truth of
Idaho Power
1s gor-ng
that or
to be able to provide and they need to plan for
we're in the Eagle Road situation.
Economically efficient manner. Solar can
produce power at cheaper costs per kilowatt fl-at out.
Itr s not arguable. Payback on sol-ar is not 1,5-20 years
as they put on their website or we woufdn't have booming
business here locally with peopJ-e installing rooftop
solarr so I think the messaging that's been surrounded in
these three rate cases to get
Solar is
here where we're at is
critical to l-ook at.not that far of a payback.
I've got 13 years of history and data that argues
absolutely the other way.
So new job opportunities for Idahoans is listed
in this order. Affordabl-e, re1iable, and secure energy25
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LAWLEY
Public
supply, so we're one
the Northwest. This
sofar projects are
a customer produce
hours, they can store
a myriad of different
of the largest battery installers in
year 60 percent of our residential
installing batteries, so not only can
their own power during the daylight
at night and use it inthat energy
ways,
use rate schedule; you can
costs and fix costs within
that have to be
whether they go to a time of
offl-oad at peak to shed those
your household, so there's
factored into this and notmany things
make a rash decision, but also, the optics of this feel a
little weird and it's fel-t weird for 13 years.
You know, we are competition, you know, and in
many instances in the commercial solar sector, there's
been cl-osed door meetings of conversations and somebody
made this point earl-ier about Idaho Power now selling
SREX in a facade manner, consumers and businesses here
Iocally can be 100 percent renewabl-e
at the roof, there's no solar panels.
trash, there's no recycling. There's
their facilities, so how are they 100
COMMISSIONER ANDERSON: Mr.
THE WITNESS: Yes, sir.
We appreciate your comments,
THE WITNESS: Okay,
but please
energy. If you look
If you l-ook at the
no LED lights in
percent renewable?
Lawley?
a couple more quick points.
COMMISSIONER ANDERSON: Could you wrap it up?
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Thatrs pretty much it. I wanted to l-iken the study that
was provided to a teacher and a student. If a teacher
gives you directions here how you're supposed to do this
assignment, the assignment comes back totally incomplete,
you're going to fail the test and I think that's the
positi-on that we're in and I'11 leave it there.
COMMISSIONER ANDERSON: Mr. Lawley, did you give
written testimony, also?
THE V{ITNESS : I did, yes r sir .
COMMISSIONER ANDERSON: Yes, I think I saw that.
Thank you for that, because werll make sure that we refer
back to that for what you werenrt able to give to usr so
thank you very much.
THE WITNESS: Okay, thank you.
COMMISSIONER ANDERSON: So thank you very much.
THE WITNESS: Yeah, thank you for telling me.
COMMISSIONER ANDERSON: Are there any questions?
AUDIENCE: IInaudible. ]
COMMISSIONER ANDERSON: Irm sorry, not at this
heari.ng. V{e'l-l take it from intervenors, not from the
audience, but thank you again for your testimony.
THE WITNESS: Thank you.
(The witness left the stand. )
COMMISSIONER ANDERSON: Jim Van Dj-nter and on
deck we will- have Mark Utting.
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Publ-ic
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VAN DINTER
Public
JIM VAN DINTER,
appearing as a public witness, having been first duly
sworn, testified as follows:
EXAMINATlON
BY MR. BURDIN:
O. Would you please state your name and spe1l your
last name for the record?
A. Boise, Idaho,
Power customer and I rm
Jim Van Dinter, V-a-n D-i-n-t-e-r.
you reside?
and yes, I am an electric Idaho
also as the Idaho Power col-umnist
A
o
My name is
And where do
call-ed us rooftop so1ar.
A. Thank you. Go ahead, please.
A. As the person before me began to point
adventure began j-n 2018 when Idaho Power first
a case before the PUC and asked for a change in
The crowd then asked Idaho Power prove that it
its business. The PUC suggested Idaho Power do
They did not.
In 2019, they came back
out, this
attempted
the rate.
was doing
a study.
rates and also started
and again attempted to
the those of us whochange our
were before and after a certain date i-n how we would be
treated. At that point PUC ordered Idaho Power to do a25
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VAN DINTER
Public
study and to come back to them with that information.
Unfortunately, Idaho Power has again failed to
do what it was ordered to do. The document that they've
given to the PUC and cal-Ied a study is a PR piece. If
any of you are j-nvolved in doing studj-es, you don't start
with an answer, you start with a question; what is the
value of rooftop sol-ar and what is the cost. Idaho Power
started with the answer.
Rooftop solar j-s a competition to Idaho Power,
because Idaho Power wants to have a monopoly on all power
generation in this area and, therefore, they carefully
selected information that would support the answer to
that question. This is not a study, l-adj-es and
gentlemen. This is a PR piece and I woul-d request that
the PUC reject it, and since Idaho Power has fail-ed to do
its job that a private contractor be named or the PUC can
accept the study, alternate study, that Idaho
Conservation League, Sierra C1ub, and a number of other
organizations have presented to the PUC as a more
accurate, complete thing.
We real-ize that the PUC gave Idaho Power five
things they wanted specifically
said one can't be measured, but
l-ooked at and Idaho Power
itrs interesting, someone
else was abl-e to measure it. Two they didn't even
answer They just ignored, so l-adies and gentlemen, I25
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UTTING
Public
ask this
given to
study.
questions? Thank you
(The witness
Commission to reject the IPC study that was
them and find a legitimate, fair, and unbiased
Thank you.
COMMISSIONER ANDERSON :Thank you. Are there
testimony.
stand. )
Thank you. Mark and on
deck we'l-l have Dave Chamberlain.
appearing as a public
MARK UTTING,
witness, having been first duly
sworn, testified as follows:
THE V{ITNESS
U-t-t-i-n-9. I five
My name is Mark Utting,
at 424 North Mobley Drive in Boise,
WerreIdaho. My wife and I have rooftop solar.
customers of Idaho Power. We also have a
for your
left the
COMMISSIONER ANDERSON :
rental house in
Hailey which is perfectly set up for power, has been in
our plans to put rooftop solar there, but that's
questionable now.
I have three points I would l-ike to make. The
first is on fairness. Idaho Power claims that one-to-one
is unfair to the non-generators, but in fact,
for
we
our rooftop
consider
generator consumers are paying the price
solar and maintenance and, therefore, do not25
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UTTING
Publ-ic
that would be also
shoul-d equal power
We in fact
equally unfair. I think power in
out.
are very frugal with our electrical
our meter spins backwards ause and every year
megawatt-hour per year, so that's 1r000 kilowatt-hours,
and if I were to put $1,000 into my key savings account
and come next winter they said oh, you're only going to
get $380 out because we can get it cheaper, that seems to
be pretty unfair and I woul-d al-so l-ike that sort of
fairness to be applied to our generation.
The second point is on grandfathering. Right
now we are obviously doing better. We are generating
more power than we're using, but in the future, when EVs
become more abundant and cheap€r, Irm sure my wife and I
will be buying one, and in that case, our one megawatt
surplus will not be enough. We'Il have to install more
panels and the way Idaho Power is proposing it is then
the whole system if connected together would no longer be
grandfathered, which would require us then to have a
separate system and have to do some balancing between
charging part of it off the new panels, part off the old
panels, which is really, I think, totally unnecessary.
And the Iast point has to do with climate change
and it has been raised, but I'm a retired hydrogeologist
and since the late 1970s, I've been doing water analysis25
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CHAMBERLAIN
Public
that is looking at
where it's going.
c1j-matologists and
time that carbon is
supply, where water is comi-ng
I have worked extensively with
it's been very clear to me for
f rom,
PhD
a long
itnot our friend. We need to take
out of the atmosphere. V{e need to stop putting it in, so
j ustitrs not just about
about me, it's about
dollars and cents and it's not
we. It I s about what I s best for al-1
of us Thank you.
COMMISSIONER ANDERSON :Thank you. Are there
any questions? Thank you for your testimony.
(The witness left the stand. )
COMMISSIONER ANDERSON: Dave Chamberlain and on
deck will be Nicholas Thomas.
DAVE CHAMBERLAIN,
appearing as a public witness, having been first duly
sworn, testified as follows:
EXAMINATION
BY MR. BURDIN:
a. Would you please state your name and spe11 your
Iast name for the record?
A. David Chamberlain, C-h-a-m-b-e-r-1-a-i-n.
O. And where do you resj-de?25
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PubIic
A
o
A
o
A
Eag1e.
And are you an Idaho Power customer?
Yes.
Thank you. Go ahead,
Eirst my I want to
please.
share my
installed
experience with
solar. I'm new to so1ar. We a 10.8 megawatt
system back in January. I want to
therers a lot of information on
to you previously. I want to
the chart in the middle, so we
nine months that we've had
through October 10.9 megawatts
or kilowatt nameplate
draw your attention to
this paper I passed out
draw your attention to
have generated in the l-ast
this system from February
of power.
It's
you can see in
by hour. ft's
sliced by the
blue bars show
noon and about
all west facing and so
the chart, this i-s the
nine months cumulaLive
the distributj-on,
power we generate
of power, but it's
can see that thehour of the d"y,
the bulk of the
4:00 or 5:00 p.
so you
hitting our panels on
megawatts of power.
The red bars
system data show, the
okay, and itrs pretty
months, 58 percent of
power generated between
m. That's when the sun is
the west side, so, again, almost 11
show, according to the Idaho Power
excess power that is generated,
substantial, so over the l-ast nj-ne
the power that we've generated25
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woul-d be considered excess and subject to the l-ower rate
according to the proposal.
The green
is the hourly, the
bars is also Idaho Power data. That
other measurement that
potentially proposing,hourly netting, and
the 10.9 megawatts
they are
that is 46
woul-d beofpercent of the power
subj ect to the l-ower
understand how as we
simply goes away at
bit offset from when
rate. I find it reaIly difficult to
generate that much power that it
we're a littl-ea lower rate because
we use it.
the morning. lrie use a]-most no
of time when we're generating it
We use power in
during that periodpower
and we use substantial power late in the evening. I want
to make two comments about the impact of that proposal.
One is I think it wil-l kill the residential
rooftop solar industry. I think if the proposal goes
through substantially as proposed, it will ki11 that
industry. The second thing is I think you'11 see changed
behavior. f know I will change. I will do my
dishwashing, I will do my laundry in the afternoon. I
will super cool my house j-n the afternoon hoping that it
wil-l continue on into the evening so that I can take
advantage of when I generate the power.
You may sdy, wel1, you're one guy. It's a don't
care, but I think you'1I find that peopJ-e as they'reotrz-J
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CHAMBERLAIN
Public
measured, they'1I find ways to maximize their benefit and
I think boy, I've got a red light and f rve got a l-ot
more to say.
Let me just hiqhlight a few things. As
fixed costs, I think that was mj-ssing in
I think an environmental- cost-benefit
mentioned, the
the analysis.
analysi-s was
there. They
the carbon stuff is, and yet, in
on page 721, they have a 2)-year
There's l-ots of inf ormation about
missing. They acknowledged that 1t wasnrt
donrt have a mandate with carbon, whatever
and chal-lenges in the
out of this proposal.
I think the
IRP and yet
communication on Idaho Power's part,
and frankly on the industry part as wel-I, has been a
l-ittl-e bit disingenuous. I don't think they've been
forthcomi-ng. We talked to two install-ers. One never
mentj-oned the proposal or
was kind of dismissing it.
stricter on the forthright
and the install-ers.
the issue. The other did, but
their IRP, for example,
carbon price forecast.
environmental concerns
, it was totally l-eft
I think you need to be even
communication from Idaho Power
Lastly, l-et me just say three alternatj-ve
proposals. First, I know you have a group that is
grandfathered in for 25 years think if you approve
any kind of proposal, you should consj-der grandfathering25
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CSB REPORTING
208.890.5198
CHAMBERLAINPublic
in a second group; those from December 2019 through your
decision about this proposal, and maybe you only gi-ve
them 10 years to try and recover some of their
investment, but I think you should consider
grandfathering in the second group if you go ahead with
any of this.
I think there are other considerations. I'11
put it in written comment, and 1ast1y, I think werve got
the who1e paradigm wrong. This should be a happy let's
work together industry and residents, werve got lots of
rooftops. We've got lots of envi-ronmental concerns.
Letrs figure out a way to do this together that benefits
everybody. I think we're missing the vision. It
shouldn't be us against them. It should be we've got a
way to utilize rooftops.
I'm willing to make
my roof. Everybody that has
investment that theyrre not
a littl-e extra investment on
testified has made an
sure they're going to get it
We can make this work,all back, but it
but not with the
was worth it.
current proposal.
COMMISSIONER ANDERSON: MT
Thank you.
Chamberlain, have
you given written testimony, also?
THE WITNESS: No, I haven't. I need to clean
this up and then I'11 submit written testimony by
tomorrow.25
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THOMAS
PubIic
COMMISSIONER ANDERSON: Because it seemed as 1f
you had some other things to say and we
appreciate it if you would do that.
THB IIIITNESS: I wi]-I do that.
would certainly
Thank you very much, and
draft?the
COMMISSIONER ANDERSON :
did all parties get a copy of
THE VIITNESS: A co]-or
COMMI SSIONER ANDERSON :
version he1ps.
Thank you for your
testimony.
THE V{ITNESS: Thank you.
(The witness left the stand. )
COMMISSIONER ANDERSON: Nicholas Thomas and on
deck Lori Graber.
NICHOLAS THOMAS,
appearing as a public wltness, having been first duly
sworn, testlfied as follows:
EXAMINATION
BY MR. BURDIN:
O. Wou1d you state your name and spe11 your last
name for the record, please?
A. My name is Nicholas Thomas, T-h-o-m-a-s.
0. And are you an Idaho Power customer?25
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208 .8 90 . 5198
THOMAS
Public
A
0
A
a
A
Yes.
And where do you reside?
Boise, Idaho.
Thank you. Go ahead.
A1I right. I beli-eve therers
1,,
ran the study.
as a Company is to make profit,
so naturally they're going to try to underval-ue sol-ar so
they can make as much profit as possible.
No. 2, the study is not a legitimate study. You
can't have a cost-benefit analysis study that ignores
half the benefits, ri-ght, because this study ignores the
two key benefits of solar energy. Solar energy's key
benefits are for the environment and for our public
health, both of which this study i-gnores.
No. 3, I think j-t's important to l-ook at what
will the impacts be if we accept this study and
legitimize it. I think the first and most obvious one j-s
cli-mate change. One of the easiest ways that individuals
we should not accept the
be natural- bias, because
Idaho Power's objective
study. No.
Idaho Power
can fiqht against the cl-imate crisj-s is
energy.
will make solar
four reasons why
there's going to
energy extremely
one can actually afford
Ii-ke, increase the rate of
and companies
through solar
This
unaffordable practj-caI1y no
just going to,
so
it, and that's25
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CSB REPORTING
208.890.s198
THOMAS
Publ-ic
cl-imate change and, therefore, increase the
rate of natural disasters, which is going to
because
severi-ty and
have an
it wiII leadadverse attack on the entire planet,
toa
study
we do
1ot of preventabl-e
My final reason
is because of its
not if we make
death.
why we shouldn't accept the
effects on our public heal-th.
solar energy so unaffordable,
our grid is going to be very
If
it's going to
strained. A11
mean that
of us know that our population is
continually growing and our
supply that population.
unaffordable that no
our grid wiII be so
increase our fossil
energy needs of our
so many carcinogens
energy needs have to, like,
If we get rid of solar or at least make it so
one can really afford it, that means
strained that we will need to
fuel emissions
people. Eossil-
in them, which
just to meet the
fuel emissions have
l_s
increased cancer rates and, therefore,
going to lead to
increased deaths
within Idaho, and that would be right now.
So just to summarize what I'm saying in terms
what the impacts of J-egitimizing the study, it's
preventable deaths. We are increasing the number of
people that die, which coul-d have been prevented and no
one deserves to die. We should do as much as we can to
prevent death and this study if we legitimize it would
of
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208.890.5198
GRABER
Public
only put us in the opposite direction.
COMMfSSIONER ANDERSON: Thank you. Are there
any questj-ons? Thank you very much for your testimony.
THE WITNESS: Thank you.
(The witness left the stand. )
COMMISSIONER ANDERSON: Lori I donrt want to
blame penmanship, but some of these names are hard. Itrs
probably my eyebal1s. It could be my age. On deck will-
be Ken and Joyce Christensen who has signed i-n.
LORI GRABER,
appearing as a public witness, having been duly sworn,
was examined and testified as follows:
THE WITNESS: Lori Graber, G-r-a-b-e-r.I just
Idahowanted to say j-n 2018 I'm a Boise
we1I. When we
solar person and
installed soIar,Power customer as
j-mmediately said I
problem with Idaho
they're wel-coming
I just think that
I
think this is going to become a
Power. My husband said, oh, Dor
everybody getting involved in this, and
this is going in the wrong direction
when we have healthy competition with multiple
out there working together, and it also
be involved in environmental success in
helps
companr_es
individuals
our State of
Idaho, so I just reaIly support the competition that it25
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208.890.5198
CHRISTENSEN
PubIic
brings with other people involved, and like many people
have talked about, I agree with everything everyone has
said.
Itrs important. There's a 1ot of 1oca1 Idaho
residents that are employed in this i-ndustry and there's
so many people doing good and incentivizi-ng people to
think of we versus I. ft's very important and I think
it's important to be appropriately compensated for the
usage that we're giving to the grj-d.
COMMISSIONER ANDERSON: Thank you. Are there
any questions? Thank you for your testimony.
(The witness l-eft stand.)
COMMISSIONER ANDERSON: Ken Christensen and on
deck will be Rockford Hinten.
appearlng as
was exami-ned
KEN CHRISTENSEN,
a public witness, having been duly sworn,
and testif ied as fol-Iows:
THE WITNESS: So itrs
We've had some very articulate
you're going to get it from an
tonight.
COMMISSIONER ANDERSON :
it. Cou1d you give your name?
a little intimidating.
speakers tonight and
ol-d cowhand from me
I'm looking forward to
Thank you25
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CSB REPORTING
208.890. s198
CHRISTENSEN
PubIic
THE WITNESS: Kenneth Christensen,
C-h-r-i-s-t-e-n-s-e-n. Irm an Idaho Power customer and a
small sofar power generator.
EXAM]NATION
BY MR. BURDIN:
0. And where do you reside?
A. Nampa, Idaho.
0. Thank you. Go ahead.
A. So, again, I personally feel like Idaho Power,
we should have representatives on their knees in front of
these sma1l power generators. We are essentially vendors
to Idaho Power and I keep wondering when Idaho Power is
going to ask the fossil- fuel-using electric generators
and the hydropower generators for a 60 percent cut in
their pay. When are they going to ask for that?
You know, I guess that's the question is, you
know, they aI1 have investments and, y€s, albeit, w€
don't have bil-Iions of dol-Iars individually investedr we
have multiple thousands. You know, we are contributing
significantly from our personal fj-nances.
I'm just a solar producer the Iast four months,
so Irm a greenie, but Irm a greenie new to it. I used to
say Irm not a tree hugger, but I will pat one on the25
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208.890.5198
CHRISTENSEN
PubIic
back, and I drive a Prius and f used to laugh at people
that drove Priusesr so I donrt know. I guess with age
comes wisdom. I know we can make the air in this va11ey
kind of nasty in the winter when we get inversions.
V0e can put enough sooty stuff in the air that
Irm an asthmatlc, I can definitely feel it, and when our
forests start to burn, you know, that doesnrt feel
good out hacking and coughing stuff up, so I
if we're contributing as much as some people
globa1 climate change, but why do we have to
fossil fuel-s up? Why canrt we conserve some
generating this power this way will conserve
that.
don't
very
know
thethink,
burn all our
of that and
some of
I kind of like to think that I'm preserving and
keeping things for my great, great, great, great, great
grandkids kind of as a reservoj-r of hydrocarbons for
manufacturing in the future and we don't have the torch
at all, so anyway, again, I think we're seeing the fox
guarding the henhouse as somebody allude'd to earlj-er, so
probably not a real viable study at this point. Thank
you-
COMMISSIONER ANDERSON: Thank you,
Mr. Christensen. Any questions? Thank you for your
test j-mony.
(The witness left the stand. )25
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208.890.5198
HINTEN
Public
COMMISSIONER ANDERSON: Rockford Hinten.
Rockford, welcome, and on deck will be Rachael Milfer.
ROCKFORD HINTEN,
appearing as a public witness, havj-ng been duly sworn,
was examined and testif ied as f ol-lows:
THE WITNESS: My name is Rockford Hinten.
That's H-i-n-t-e-n, and I l-ive in Boise. I am an Idaho
Power customer. A couple of things. I can be qui-ck. I
wanted to look at the proposed buy-back price. I bel-ieve
that was 4.7 cents, somewhere around there. I did read
the report and they covered a section of what is their
pricing for energy if they have to buy that on the open
commodity market, and there was a section for the pricj-ng
during the sunrmer months and then through the rest of the
year, and during the summer months, that rate is about t7
cents a kilowatt-hour. The 4.1 cents they're offering
f or buy-back, that's not reasonabl-e. That's not cl-ose
and as we know, these are summer months. This j-s when
the vast majority of solar generatj-on is and they will be
offering this kind of insulting rate.
The second factor a few people have brought up,
you're creating a kind of dangerous backwards price
incentive by offering this terrible l-owball rate during
the afternoons, but not offering any kind of super off25
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CSB REPORTING
208.890.5198
MILLER
PubIic
peak rate at night. Youfre creating this bad j-ncentive
for people to try to use as much as they can during the
afternoon, use up my energy so I don't have to sell it
back at this terrible rate and then have to pay full
retail price overnight. This is motivating some really
bad behavior if you want to be concerned about peak load
during the afternoons and shifting usage into the
nighttime. Yourve got the incentives in a reaIly bad
direction, so thatrs what I had. Thank you.
COMMISSIONER ANDERSON. Thank you, Mr. Hinten.
Any questions? Thank you for your testimony.
(The witness left the stand. )
COMMISSIONER ANDERSON: Rachael Mi11er, Rachel-
Miller, and on deck will be possj-bIy Lynne Jel-Ium.
appearing as
was examined
RACHAEL MILLER,
a public witness, having been duly sworn,
and testified as follows:
EXAMINATION
BY MR. BURDIN:
O. Woul-d you please state your name and spe1l your
last name for the record?
A. My name is Rachael Miller, M-i-I-I-e-r.25
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MILLER
PubIic
O. Where do you reside?
A. Boise.
a. And are you an
A. Yes.
O. Thank you. Go
A. Thank you and
allowing the public to
story, myself included.
general manager at
here on behal-f of
employees, and to
Idaho.
Werre super grateful to have
Utilities Commission whose purpose is
interest of Idahoans. We're here to
Idaho Power customer?
ahead, please.
thank you Commlssi-oners for
be here to share their side of the
My name is Rachael and I'm the
a solar company called RevoluSun. frm
our current and future customers, our
speak to the future of sol-ar energy j-n
the Idaho Public
to protect the
ask that the PUC do
a simple thing,
make'their own
which is to protect Idahoans' right to
energy and to restrict the utility's
control- how Idahoans solarability to single-handedly
energy is valued.
Under the current conditions, fdahoans have a
choice of where to get affordable energy. Removing that
choice from the consumer and allowing fdaho Power to
dictate what's best for that customer goes against
Idaho's val-ues. Our customers choose solar as their
energy source for a lot of reasons. Some of our25
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customers choose sol-ar to secure a consistent,
non-variabl-e payment for their electricity. Others are
more focused on energy i-ndependence and owning rather
than renting their power from the utility.
We have customers who are excited about new
technol-ogy and others who desire a cfeaner source of
energy, which under net metering al,so all-ows the utility
to meet their own climate change goa1s. Additionally, we
should consider the future of energy and the benefits
that rooftop solar has in modernizing the grid. Those
benefits include grid resilience. The grid is more
diverse, safe, and resil-ient when the power generation
sources are scattered on individual ownersr rooftops,
especially when batteries are added.
Another benefit that provides grid resilience is
decentralizing systems at large, so a good example of
decentralization in utilities is in the history of
tel-ecommuni-cations. We don't dictate whether or not
people can have a cell phone. We don't force them to use
a landline. Our politicians don't create or support laws
that make purchasing a cell- phone financially prohibitive
or under the guise of protecting our access to
communication, and we certaj-nly don't al-l-ow those
telecommunications companies to single-handedly control
those policies, so why shoufd we do the same for
CSB REPORT]NG
208.890. s198
MILLER
PubIic
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208.890.5198
JELLUMPubllc
Idahoans' right to access and choose where their power
comes from? Idahoans should have the
where their
have a body
appearing as
was examined
power comes from and we're
l-ike the Publ-ic Utilities
right to choose
grateful that we
Commission here to
represent Idahoans and those valuesr so thank you.
COMMISSIONER ANDERSON: Thank you, Ms. Mi11er.
Any questions? No. Thank you for your testimony.
(The witness left the stand. )
COMMISSIONER ANDERSON: Lynne and on deck will
be Steve Nadeau.
LYNNE JELLUM,
a public wltness, having been duly sworn,
and testified as follows:
EXAMINATION
BY MR. BURDIN:
o
A
o
A
o
A
o
Would you please
Lynne
Go ahead.
Lynne Je1lum, J-e-l--l-u-m.
And where do you reside?
Boise
And are you an Idaho power customer?25
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A. I am,
O. Thank you. Go ahead, please.
A. I'm real-1y going to reiterate a few things that
people have already said. f'm just an average citizen
who was trying do the right thing in instalting my solar
rooftop generator in 2027, and unfortunately, I didn't
real-ize at the time that this could be an issue. It
wasn't discussed.
I didn't I wasnrt on top of things, perhaps,
but f feel- like I was trying to do the right thing to
equalize my monthly power bill- and to al-so help the
planet and a1I of the environmental- changes that have
been occurring. Unfortunately, I don't think that it's
faj-r to have a certain time for being grandfathered in
and then have another date for some of us that are new
customers or new providersr so I would encourage you to
consider that when you do make a decision here based on
all of this information that there may be a set date that
actually becomes the grandfather date once the rules have
been in p1ace, if that ever happens. Thank you.
COMMISSIONER ANDERSON: Thank you. No
questions. Thank you very much.
(The witness left the stand. )
COMMISSIONER ANDERSON: Steve Nadeau and on deck
wil-l be Lisa Young. Is everybody doing okay out there?
CSB REPORT]NG
208.890.5198
JELLUM
Public
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STEVE NADEAU,
appearing as a public witness, having been duly sworn,
was examined and testif ied as fol]ows:
BY MR. BURDIN:
O. Would you please state your name and spel1 your
Iast name for the record?
A. Steve Nadeau, N-a-d-e-a-u. I'm an Idaho Power
user, non-sol-ar currently. I live in Boise, Idaho.
Thank you.
As I said,
Go ahead, please.
Irm an Idaho Power user. I've gotten
o
A
all of their
energy. I've
done the free
the house that
l-etters and solicitations for
gotten their free LED light
energy evaluations of all- of
use al-l-ow too much cold
conservr_ng
bul-bs and Irve
the places in
in the house,
et cetera, et ceterar so Irve been considering solar and
I put the brakes on that whole process.
I had the engineers come
look at how many panels it woul-d
would be good for solar and it is
panels to replace the energy that
its current rate. Those panels
increase the number
order to compensate
Power woul-d give us,
over. I had the folks
take and if my house
. It would take 2L
Irm currently using at
I woul-d have to
of panels at
for the lower
1,000 bucks each in
compensation that Idaho
so I put a hal-t on it and I suspect
NADEAU
Publ-ic
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208.890.5198
NADEAU
Pub11c
there wilf be thousands of people that will put a halt on
putting solar on their roofs when just the opposite
shoul-d be happening.
V[e shou]-d be doing everything and the PUC should
be doing everything as a Public Utilities Commission
overseeing these things,
incenti-vize and make it
be doing this, not less
there's
doj-ng everything
more appealing for
appealing.
enough incentj-ve
they can to
the public to
with all- theI mean,
health issues and the environmental- issues, which is, you
know, granted, one
looking at it, but
we1I.
of the primary reasons that I'm
it has to be economicalJ-y feasible as
You know, we all got letters from Idaho Power
Jackpot
going
here recently about, I think they cal-Ied it, the
solar plant that they're putting in there that is
to be seJ-ling
reduced rate
the power to Idaho Power at, you know, some
compared to what we I re currentl-y or the
rooftop solar is currently getting compensated, and I
mean, that's apples and oranges, isn't it?
I mean, you have a solar company that has a
business plan and, you know, the depreciation vafues, aII
the things that go into a major company and they're
selling over, you know, 50 years or 100 years. I'm
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208.890.5198
NADEAU
Publ-ic
long and Irm hoping that f 'm in
wi1I.
Unfortunately, not all
or a recovery of our investments
good enough shape that I
of us will see a response
economically, but as
need
soon as one goes on
environmentally and
to be looking at to
and -- oh, I guess
that sfow.
I'11 wrap
something that was
the roof, we're going to see it
I think that's something that we
incentivize as a city, as a state
Irm out. I didn't think I'd speak
it up
kind
here by saying there was
of weird that this whole rate
increase happened at the same time that the government is
subsidj-zi-ng, the federal government is subsidizing, solar
by 30 percent. The same thing happened when the federal
government said they'd subsj-dize EV vehicles by $7r000
and then the electric vehic1e producers went out and
raised the price of
that smell a little
their EVs by exactly $7,000. Does
weird to you guys?
to theme and I think it does probably
Thank you very much.
COMMISSIONER ANDERSON :
the time to submit some written
THE WITNESS: frve got
COMMISSIONER ANDERSON :
Mr. Nadeau, can you take
comments to this, also?
I donrt know if you
anticipate on Ieaving, but we would appreciate if you
Wel-I, it does to
audience as wel-I.
a few here.
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coul-d submit whatever you could to us so it becomes part
of the record.
THE WITNESS: Yeah, I've got them here. Who do
I submit them to?
COMMISSIONER ANDERSON: Give them to Adam.
Thank you very much for your testimony.
(The witness left the stand. )
COMMISSIONER ANDERSON: Lisa Young.
LISA YOUNG,
appearing as a publi-c witness, havi-ng been duly sworn,
was exami-ned and testif ied as fol-Iows:
EXAMINATION
BY MR. BURDIN:
O. Woul-d you please state your name and spelJ- your
last name for the record?
A. Lisa Young, Y-o-u-n-g.
O. Where do you reside?
A. Boise.
O. And are you an Idaho Power customer?
A. Yes.
O. Thank you. Go ahead, please.
A. Thanks.
MS. NORDSTROM: Excuse me, can we please have25
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this witness explain whether she's testifying on behalf
of the Sierra CIub?
COMMISSIONER ANDERSON: Apparently she is
THE WITNESS: Yes, I wil-l explain that, yes.
MS.NORDSTROM: Okay.
the organj-zatj-on, Irepresenting
To the extent that she's
believe that it's
prohibited
member of
about the
The Commissionrs
party versus a
Rul-e 247 tal-ksthe public.
difference
by Commission Rule 247 as a
between a member of the public
a member of antestifying at a public hearing versus
intervening party that has different party status and
party rights and obligations.
THE WITNESS: Irm not an intervening party in
this case, Sierra CIub is not.
COMMISSIONER ANDERSON: I believe she's correct.
MS. NORDSTROM: Then I withdraw my objection.
Thank you.
COMMISSIONER ANDERSON: Thank you. Please
continue.
THE WITNESS: Great, thank YOU,
the
YES,
fdaho
so my name
Chapter of
on behalf
is Lisa Young.
the Sierra CIub
I am the director of
and I | 11 share a few comments
the cl-ub tonight. First, everyone has the right to
generate their own el-ectricity and they should be fairly
compensated for the extra c1ean, local power they put25
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back on the grld
results,
putting
green jobs, build local-
energy bi11s. Theyrre
If the PUC accepts Idaho Powerfs flawed study
it will be even harder for people to afford
sol-ar
even on public
panels on their home, business, farm, or
buildings like schools. With the
worsening climate crisis, we shoul-d be doing everything
we can to make sol-ar power more affordable and accessible
and not less.
Irm here tonight representing over 5r000 Sierra
Club supporters who are Idaho Power customers. Our
members want to see more solar panels in their
communities to help address the climate crisis, improve
public health, advance our clean energy economy, create
grid resilience, and stabilize
worried that Idaho
attempts
criti-cal
at a time
opportunities
when we need
f 'm goj-ng to
to quash loca11y-owned sol-ar will
Power I s
keep these
out of reach for Idaho communities
them the most.
share some of our members' primary
concerns about this study. Concern No. 1 is that Idaho
Power's solar study is biased and needs independent
review. Idaho Power, like el-ectric utilities across the
nation, have been actively trying to suppress
customer-owned rooftop solar installations for over a
decade, that customer-owned energy doesn't yield as much25
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PubIic
profit as corporate-owned energy and requires the utility
to manage its grj-d in some very different ways.
Idaho Power tried to reduce solar export credit
rates from the current 8-10 cents per kilowatt-hour to
nearly two cents per kilowatt-hour in 20L9, which would
discourage customer solar ownership and it's now using
this new study to justify that proposed decrease;
however, the same study conducted by an independent third
party found that the value of rooftop sofar was actually
closer to 18.3 cents per kilowatt-hour, nearly five times
what Idaho Power proposed.
is just not fair andIdaho Power's study
credible as required by the PUC. It's
it needs to include environmental
toward its own corporate interest and
clearly skewed
should be
supplemented with external independent analyses.
Concern No. 2 is that Idaho Power's solar study
is incomplete and
benefits. fdaho Power neglected to include
environmental benefits in its calcu]ations
they're irrelevant, non-quantifiable, and
rates, but more solar energy helps reduce
any
claiming that
don't affect
carbon
emissj-ons, which helps curb climate change and reins in
the costs associated with it, incl-uding on utility rates.
Idaho Power itself acknowledges the impacts of
integratedclimate change on its system. In its 20-year25
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resource pIan, it had its own 100 percent clean energy
commitment to mitigate climate change. It even told the
public that it woul-d include cl-imate and environmental
factors in its solar study last fall-. Yet the Company
conveniently decided to exclude environmental- benefits
from 1ts final study in an effort to clearly keep the
export credit rate as low as possible. These
environmental benefits are real, they're quantifiable,
they impact rates, and they should be included in the
study.
Our third concern is Idaho Power's solar study
and Ij-s inaccurate and needs updated data and methods,
will share our fourth concern and wrap up.
The fourth concern is that Idaho Powerrs sol-ar
study is impactful, yet inaccessible and realIy needs
want to share ispublic input, and the Iast comment I
that back tn 20L9, the Commission decided to reject fdaho
Power's proposal to reduce solar compensation rates
really due to public outcry.
The Commlssion toLd Idaho Power to go back, work
with key stakehol-ders to conduct a fair and credible
study that considers all the public concerns, but it's
cl-ear that Idaho Power's study has not earned the trust
and confidence of the public and key stakeholders.
I can share one example very quickly of how25
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trust and credibility was broken with stakeholders and
the public in this process when Idaho Power
disingenuously agreed to include that range of
envlronmental, public health, and local economic benefits
in its study design, but then turned around and excluded
them from its final- study saying these metrics can't be
measured or aren't relevant.
If the Commj-ssion rejected Idaho Power's
proposal back in 2019 based on public outcry and lack of
stakeholder engagement and trust, Iack of adequate and
accurate data, I don't see a reason why this study
shouldn't also be rejected by the Commission and an
actual- fair, credlble, and unbiased study be commissj-oned
by the PUC to inform this important process. Thank you.
COMMISSIONER ANDERSON: Thank you, Ms. Young.
(The witness left the stand. )
COMMISSIONER ANDERSON: At this time we're going
to take a five-minute break. The Commissioner, o1d
Commissioner, needs to take a break, so please, letrs try
to get back here at 10 minutes to B:00, please. Thank
you -
(Recess. )
COMMISSIONER ANDERSON: Irm going to go ahead
and call- the next name and the next name on deck. The
next name is Charlie Pegu. I know I didn't do that
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right,
here?
breaks.
calm it
doing a
right,
and on deck will be Tyler Lobdell-. Is Charlie
Is Tyler here? This is what happens when we take
Give us just another minute-and-a-half, we'1I
all down. It looks l-ike the students are out
littIe planning, so no
I'11 come back to them
Charlie and no Tyler? A11
if they are somewhere else.
Li? Okay, come back to
on deck will be Jeffrey
How about Andrew Li?
that one. Jesse Simpson, and
Fi1lmore.
JESSE SIMPSON,
appearing as a public witness, having been first duly
sworn, testified as follows:
EXAMINATION
BY MR. BURDIN:
O. Will you please state your name and spell your
l-ast name for the record?
A. Yes, my name is Jesse Simpson. Simpson is
S-i-m-p-s-o-n, and I Live in Boise, Idaho, and Irm an
Idaho Power customer.
O. Thank you. Go ahead, please.
A. Yes,
folks before
so Irm not going to talk Iong. A 1ot of
me mentioned some great points about this
SIMPSON
PubIic
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study. Some things f want to point out, however, is this
study -- somehow Idaho Power al-so in this case wants to
change the net metering program to a net hourly
compensation and I think that deserves its own study. I
feel like that is going to change the whole structure of
net metered and is di-singenuous to the fol-ks that have
decided to go solar since December 2019, so I'd like to
make that point.
I've helped over 400 customers here in the
Treasure Va11ey make the decision to invest in solar and
a very dj-fficult decision for these fo1ks,it's always
because it costs a lot of money,but they
becausethat decide to do it are doing it they think it's
the right thing to do for, you know, their independent
reasons, environmentally, to stabil-lze their cash flow
for the future, and I hope to do that as wel-l for my
family one day.
I have not yet taken the plunge to invest in
sol-ar, but I would certai-nIy l-ike to. My daughter asks
al-1 the ones
me every
panels,
show our
where we
day why Daddy,
and I think it's
younger generations that
get our power.
when are we getting our solar
really an important thlng to
we have options of
I got into solar
about mountal-ntop remova1
11 years ago after learning
coal- mining and I was motivated25
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that sol-ar technology was another option. Ifve learned
that it reaIIy is only the second technol-ogy commercially
availab1e to produce electricity. A11 other technologJ-es
are spinning a turbine. Typically, you know, burning
fossil fuels or hydro or wind or nuclear, they're all-
spinning a turbine, and solar rea11y is an emerging
technology that has a long way to grow and to be a
catalyst for our society, and I reaI1y think Idahoans
should have that option to put solar on thej-r homes and
to get compensated fairJ-y for that power.
That's all I real1y wanted to say and I hope you
theguys take this
right decision
Any questj-ons? Thank you
(The witness left
case seriously and realIy dig into
for Idahoans.
COMMISSIONER ANDERSON: Thank you, Mr. Simpson.
for your testimony.
the stand. )
COMMISSIONER ANDERSON: Jeffrey Fillmore, and on
deck will be Nicholas Thomas.
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JEEFREY FTLLMORE,
appearing as a public witness, having been first duly
sworn, testified as follows:
EXAMINATION
BY MR. BURDIN:
O. Would you please state your name and spelI your
last name for the record?
A. Jeffrey Fi-1Imore and Fill-more is F-i-1-1-m-o-r-e
and I'm from Boise, fdaho, and I am an Idaho Power
customer and I do have a solar install-ation.
a. Thank you. Go ahead, please.
A. Yes, so I'd like to bring up a point in the
study. It was very interesting that Idaho Power spent so
much time talking about hourly metering, real time
metering when their webslte can't even show us how much
electricity we were usj-ng in the past four days. You
have to go back four days to see what you used, but they
very much put forth in this report this what was supposed
to be a study that they could do this, that they could
charge people per second or per millisecond on their
power, but yet when I go to look at my reports, j-trs four
days behind.
f can't get real time feed from them, but yet in25
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this report they spend a lot of time talking about this
and how it changes what the customer is going to be
getting charged. Itrs a very interestlng thing to be
bringing up when it seems to be more interested in how
much they're charging versus how much the solar is
actually helping the l-ocal area.
One of the other things that I looked up when I
read this report and read how much they wanted to be
compensating sol-ar rooftop installations was the profit
that ldaho Power was making. Donft worry, the past L4
years they've increased their profit every year and that
was reported by the CEO in the 2027 financial reports
that this is the 14th consecutive year of growth and
profit in net income.
Itrs also the 14th -- weIJ-, I donrt know about
14th. This is also another year where they increased
their dividends to their shareholders. I think it was up
to $4.85, up another three-and-a-ha1f percent, so this is
very interesting that this is coming out after 1,4 years
of increased profit margin, that they're making more
money every year and yet theyrre coming down on the solar
install-s and saying you're not paying us enough.
Here it is they're making, what, I think it was
$245 million in profit, net income a year, but yet
they're coming after us and tryi-ng to nickel and dime us
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on whether we produce the power at 2:00 in the afternoon
or 8:00 at night or 2:00
this is just another move
monopoly that we can't
in the morning, and here we are,
by a large corporation who is a
you know, the only way we can
control it is by testifying here and by this Commj-ssion,
attention to otherso I would ask you to please pay
reports that came out.
Pl-ease monitor them on their hourly metering,
thej-r real time metering and what is required of them to
be abl-e to report back to customers and that's all I
have.Thank you.
COMMISSIONER ANDERSON: ThanK you, Mr. Fillmore.
Are there questions?
(The witness
Thank you
left the
for your
stand. )
Nicholas
On deck
testimony.
COMMISSIONER ANDERSON :Thomas. Letrs
try Shawn Nield. Rachel- Parke.Iet's do Dylan
Davis.
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Public
RACHEL PARKE,
appearing as a public witness, havi-ng been first duly
sworn, testified as follows:
EXAMINATION
BY MR. BURDIN:
O. Would you please state your name and spe1I your
last name for the record?
A. Yes, itrs Rachel Parke. My last name is spelled
P-a-r-k-e.
O. And where do you reside?
A. Boise, Idaho.
O. And are you an Idaho Power customer?
A. Yes, I am.
O. Thank you. Go ahead, please.
A. Okay, so the gentleman before me did make a very
good point that I do want to highlight, which is that
Idaho Power is essential-ly a monopoly and they're
regulated and they're a public utility and that is a
trait that, you know, generally the public is wil1ing to
make, because they serve our interests and are able to
offer services at a cheaper pricer so I think we need to
deliver on that, and so I do want to kind of highlight
that, but what I'm here to talk to you about today is the25
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fact that I believe in climate change.
I think it's happening right now before our eyes
and I think it's rea11y important for us to have a
cli-mate resil-iency plan, and I have as an fdaho Power
you don't think we need resili-ency
alternatives, I'dor we need to have the opportunity for
lj-ke to point out that actually they can serve the public
and sofar fills that need.
customer, I've had my
disruption to my work
brownouts, and so if
Part
sources. If
experlence a
power out twlce that has caused
and at several- times I've had
of cl-imate resil-iency is diversifying power
theyrre all- coming from one place and we
fail-ure because of a climate event or
like schoo]s needs to be incl-uded in the
another natural catastrophe, we're reaIly goi-ng to find
on residential andoursefves in dire straits. Solar
public buildings
resource p1an.
In the long run, residential- and public building
solar l-ike on schools woul-d real1y pay off . If we need
to be somewhere where we're sheltering or whatever, it
would be helpful to have those public buildings that are
power independent. That's all I have to say.
COMMISSIONER ANDERSON: Thank you. Are there
any questions? Thank you for your testi-mony.
THE WITNESS: Thank you.25
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(The witness left the stand. )
COMMISSIONER ANDERSON: Did I cal-l- anybody on
deck? Ithinkldid.
DYLAN DAVIS,
appearing as a public witness, having been first duly
sworn, testified as follows:
EXAMINATION
BY MR. BURDIN:
O. State your name and spe1l your l-ast name for the
record, please.
A. Dylan Davis, D-a-v-i-s.
O. And where do you reside?
A. Meridian, Idaho.
O. And are you an Idaho Power customer?
A. That's the only choice I have.
O. Thank you. Go ahead, please.
A. Yeah, I own a loca1 solar company and we as a
whole are paying millions in taxes to the State of Idaho
each year and we are just one of the many sofar
companies. There's a giant demand for solar in the
Treasure Valley. New solar companies are moving here
each month from other states and are paying taxes here25
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Publ-ic
because of the giant demand for solar in the Treasure
Va1ley.
The federal government is 1itera11y
incentivrzing homeowners to go sol-ar. They just
increased the tax incentive from 26 to 30 percent and
extended the program for 10 years. Idaho Power seems to
be playing catch-up to the giant influx i-n growth in the
state. Changing net metering to not give a one-to-one
credit is not a solution to the problem at hand. The
possible sol-ution could be a rate increase to all-
customers to catch up on the population growth. Donrt
penalize the people willing to i-nvest mil-lj-ons of doll-ars
into helping create kilowatts and generate kilowatts and
give them back to the State of Idaho.
We have giant
all intersections, but
complexes on baslcally
doesn't a11ow waterfal-1
Idaho Power is behind
apartment
yet Idaho
metering
the times
to say.
starti-ng
penalize
either. It seems to me
and they are a monopoly and we don't have much
Cal-i-fornia mandates solar on aI] new buil-ds
in 2018 and newer and yet Idaho wants to
l-ocal- homeowners for goj-ng solar.
I I 11 leave my conrments with this thought:
Shoul-d we think of adding another power company instead
of penal:-z:-ng sol-ar customers? Imagine Chevron being the
only gas station in town.25
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COMMTSSIONER ANDERSON :
Are there any questions for Mr.
Thank you, Mr. Davis.
Davis? Thank you for
your testimony.
(The wit.ness left stand.)
COMMISS IONER ANDERSON :Ke11y -- I canrt
think itrs spel-l-edpronounce your last
L-t-1-e-1-t. Okay,
name, but I
we'11 come back to that one.
appearj-ng as a public
KELLY HELT,
witness, having been first duly
sworn, testified as follows:
EXAMINATION
BY MR. BURDIN:
o Would you please state your name and spelI your
for the record?
Yes, Ke11y H-e-I-t.
Where do you reside?
Nampa.
And are you an Idaho Power customer?
Yes, I am.
Thank you. Go ahead, please.
Thank you. Irve lived i-n Idaho all my l-ife and
last name
A
o
A
o
A
a
A
I love the state. I am a conservationist, so I don't go
HELT
Publ-ic
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too far to the left or the right. I have power tools
that work better on gas than on electricity. Thatrs just
a part of life. What I'm disappointed about j-s I
purchased my solar panels, nine of them on the side of my
house that's facing the southwest, in March of this year
and I just thought f was making the best decision, but to
see what the plan is that my reimbursement is going to be
so 1ow compared to what Irve had to pay for those, I will
be paying for 25 years for those solar panels.
To me, I just see it as nothing short of theft.
Itfs just another way to steal from the individual as
long as you can. I just think that's wrong. Integrity
does mean a lot to me and I don't know how you can
justify this. I just don't see how they can justify what
they're doing. I'm going to be paying $215 a month for
25 years, and part of it is because I have a steep roof.
It's a L2/12 pitch, so that had to be replaced. Itrs
cedar shj-ngles, but that's just the risk I took.
I just didn't realize it was going to be this
the people that live here.deep
Itrs
of a pocket digging j-nto
kind of discouraging. I'm stil-I glad I got them, so
that you guysI just didn't see this comi-ng. I'm hoping
will make the right decision and wonrt al1ow the people
of Idaho to be gouged any further than we are getting
gouged already, so that's all I have to say. Thank you.25
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EVANSPublic
COMMTSSTONER ANDERSON: Thank you. Any
questions? Thank you for your testimony.
(The witness left stand. )
COMMISSIONER ANDERSON: Lou Evans and on deck
we'11 have Bob Davis.
appearing as a public
LOU EVANS,
witness, having been first duly
sworn, testified as follows:
EXAMTNATION
BY MR. BURDIN:
0. Would you please
last name for the record?
A. Lou Evans, last
O. And where do you
A. Boise, Idaho.
state your name and spell your
name spelled E-v-a-n-s.
reside?
Idaho Power customer?
ahead, please.
I work for a sol-ar company as
o
A
0
A
wel-l-.
j ust
what
. And are you an
. Yup-
. Thank you. Go
. AI1 rightr so
I'm late to this
with a customer.
hearing because
What's happening
I was actually
right now wj-th
no other way toIdaho Power is doing is there's25
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EVANS
Public
put it, but I would say greed. Now, I understand the
other aspects of it.
influx of people
I understand that when you have a
moving here,MASS okay, it's been
understand the parthappening for a
of it where when
few years
there I s
now and I
so many people that
the grid and
are moving
thathere, it can create a strain on
happens.
We need they need
to be ablethej-r they need
need to do. Thatrs
to spread out
why we have the fixed cost
adjustment. We understand how that works, because it's
when the you know, they send their representatives,
Idaho Power sends their representatives, to the Public
Uti-lities Commission to be able to advocate for their
industry for aII of the different areas from irrigation
to large for the bigger companies to residential.
Now, whatrs happening, though, is that it is
getting to a point where you're taking away the freedom
for people to own their power. You're pecking away at
the opportunity for people to have an j-ncentive to have
that kind of
to be able to expand
what they
I'm owning my power
whenand this is
justification that okay,
what we're doing, because you have solar
electricj-ty,
lnto the
you give the
companies that are generati-ng a surplus of
what happens is that extra power feeds back
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credj-ts for that at a one-to-one ratio, whlch is fair.
When you're pecking away at that, it takes away
from that and it takes away from that at the same time
with the sentiment that we're helping Idaho Power at the
same time. We're helping them when these customers are
generating a surplus of electricity. You have to keep
that in mind when you're thinking about putting these
policies in.
That's why I say there's an element of greed
that comes along with this, because you're a private
company and yes, you're a monopoly. What other utilities
do we have out here that we can rely on for electricity,
you know, so these are it's very important to keep
that in mind when we're talking about wanting to own our
power. That's what's rea1Iy important, because right now
fdaho Power customers, there's over 600 plus thousand in
the State of Idaho, and theyrre renting it essentially,
renting your power, and at an incremental- rate that keeps
rising, so we have to accept that.
You know, we have to accept that we're renting
our power. We have to accept that every year therers
going to be an increase, so with accepting that and at
the same time tryj-ng to peck away at the element of being
able to own our power and being able to take this
one-to-one ratio, ltrs not right to do thj-s to your
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EVANS
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customers.
Your customers are stiIl having
energy efficiency
that we have and service charger so
cannot take out asthree things that we
that Idaho Power wil-l-still be chargingr So keep that in
to take out the fixed costmind. We ' re only abl-e
adjustment, the power cost adjustment, and the actual
consumption that they have, so this is something to, like
I said, keep in mind when you're wanting to go solar, for
anybody who is considering going so1ar.
servi-ces and with the
the
There are some thlngs
to pay with
city municipality
therers already
solar companies
take out, so when
power and you have
out this balance.
because we do, we
it and at the same
that solar companies canrt
option of owning your
ratio, that is what evens
you have the
a one-to-one
Werre here to work with Idaho Power
help out Idaho Power on that
the
aspect of
sol-ar
Let
time, you
us do our
know, just let
job helping outcompanies be.
getting them to
having to every
deincentivized.
people,
be able to own their power rather than
year worry about if it's going to be
That's aII I have to say.
COMMISSIONER ANDERSON: Thank you, Mr. Evans
Any questions? Thank you for your testimony.
(The witness left stand. )
COMMISSIONER ANDERSON: Bob Davis and on deck25
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208.890.5198
DAVIS
Public
Paul- Drake.
BOB DAVIS,
appearing as a public witness, having been duly sworn,
was examined and testified as fol-lows:
THE WITNESS: My name is Bob Davls. I
last name D-a-v-i-s. I actual-Iy brought a whole
thing I wanted to talk about today.
spe11 the
other
EXAMINATION
BY MR. BURDIN:
O. Mr. Davis, where do you reside?
A. I live here in Idaho.
O. And are you an Idaho Power customer?
A. I'd like to make a point that that is actually
comical-, because I donft have a choice but to be, but
y€s, like everybody else in this room, but anyways, I
rea1ly wanted to talk about something that I feel like so
many of the people ahead of me has spoken aboutr so I
wonrt waste your time with that. What I wanted to do 1s
explain to you who I am and where f come from.
I have been born and raised here in Idaho, 40
years o1d. I spent the last 19 years in the medical25
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DAVISPublic
field, from in the operating room, doing a dermatology
clinic, many different things. I have made a career of
reading medical studies. It is my livelihood to be abl-e
to read a study, find the evidence, see if it's
reproducible evidence, something that I can make a
medical decision based on. Someone's life wll-l- be in
jeopardy on thj-s, right, so all day long I read studies
and theref s also whatr s call-ed a white paper.
A white paper is a company-produced propaganda
tool. It is not peer reviewed. It is not bias based.
It is not evidence based. It is I want to show that my
shiny toy is better than your shiny toy. How can I
to make mine look better thanpossibly create a study
yours.
When I go talk to someone trylng to produce or
convince them to
I produce a white
decj-sion on your
evidence based.
do a medical- procedure
doctor wil-I
a certain way and
ever make apaper, no
care based
It is not
It 1s not
study
a whiteperformed by Idaho Power is not a study.
paper. It is not peer reviewed. It is
bl-inded study is what we woul-d consider
Itfs not placebo controlled, right? It
It would never be publishabl-e in a peer
and you have al-l heard the data, right?
on a white paper.
peer revj-ewed. The
It is
not a double
a gold standard.
i-s not a study.
review journal
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It is not a study. It is propaganda persuasion.
It is not designed to show an equal field. They
published what they wanted the numbers to be on their
website before the study was even produced. They knew
the answer before the study. That makes the study biased
all by itself, right?
So the last thing I wanted to say before I leave
is that and I really did want to address this
one-to-one credit, right, so if I produce data to the FDA
and I say, h"y, I have this new shiny medical devj-se that
I want published or I want to be able to produce, they're
going to make me prove my study, prove my evidence,
right, and if I don't do both of those things, it's
entirely rejected. They don't say we1I, we'11 kind of
give you some of what you wanted because you tried hard,
right?
Idaho Power has proved no evidencer rro unbiased
evidence, that what they want j-s better for the consumer.
They proved that they can make more profits by doing it
that way, right? A one-to-one ratio if you make it, why
is it not yours? Just to make Idaho Power more profit.
That's al1 I have to say.
COMMISSIONER ANDERSON: Thank your Mr. Davis.
Any questions? Thank you for your testimony.
(The witness left stand. )
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RAHMAN
Public
COMMISSIONER ANDERSON: Is Paul Drake availabl-e?
Is Senna Uelle available? I think they're the CSI
students. Is Mayisa Rahman availabl-e? Please, welcome,
and on deck we'11 have Kylie Jackson.
MAYISA RAHMAN,
appearing as a public wltness, having been first duly
sworn, testified as follows:
EXAMINATTON
BY MR. BURDIN:
O. Will you please state your name and spe11 your
Iast name for the record?
A. Mayisa and R-a-h-m-a-n.
O. And where do you reside?
A. Boise.
O. And are you an Idaho Power customer?
A. No.
O. Thank you. Go ahead, please.
A. My name j-s Mayisa Rahman and I am a senior at
Timberline Hi-gh School. I am thankful for this
opportunity to testify and share my love for the
environment. I have been involved in the Idaho Climate
Justice League since the suflrmer now and look forward to25
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these events where I can expand my passion to a more
cri-tical 1eveI.
Unfortunately, our climate challenges go much
farther than just the State of Idaho. I remember scuba
diving in Mexico and being requested by the instructors
to take off our sunscreen before getting j-n the ocean.
At this, many people l-eft, not wanting to swim without
protectj-on, but the instructors remained firm with their
request. The shallow depths where humans had swam were
dull and lifeless, just as toxic as it was above on land
and it broke my heart knowing we were the cause of it.
The difference between the scuba diving facj-Iity
and Idaho Power's i-ntentions are cl-ear to me now. The
facility that had noticed that the chemicals j-n sunscreen
were damaging to al-l sea life were willing to l-ose
customers over their request whil-e Idaho Power sits back
and let's the destructj-on continue. Rather than holding
true to the commitment they made to provide us Idahoans a
future of c1ean, accessibl-e energy, they care more about
profiting off of our climate's decay.
f hope my testimony along wj-th the many others
w111 hold fdaho Power's study accountable and push them
to rethink and reach the goal they promised us years d9o,
a future with clean energy. Thank you.
COMMISSIONER ANDERSON: Thank you. Any
CSB REPORTING
208.890.5198
RAHMAN
Public
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JACKSON
Public
questions? Thank you for your testi-mony.
(The witness left stand. )
COMMISSIONER ANDERSON: Kylie Jackson and on
deck we'l-I have Sidney Snider.
KYLTE JACKSON,
appearing as a public witness, having been first duly
sworn, testified as follows:
EXAMINATION
BY MR. BURDIN:
A. Will you please state your name and spe11 your
last name for the record?
A. Kylie Jackson, J-a-c-k-s-o-n.
O. And where do you reside?
A. Boise, Idaho.
0. And are you an Idaho Power customer?
A. Yes, my parents are.
0. Thank you. Go ahead, please.
A. A11 right, heIlo everyone. My name is Kylie and
Irm a student of Bishop Kel1y High School and today I'm
here to testify in opposition to the VODER study
published by Idaho Power. Since I was younq, I've spent
the better part of my tlme outside, running, playing25
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tennis, hiking, enjoying naturers serenity with a book.
Although this was a highlight of my chil-dhood
and is an aspect of my life I continue to cheri-sh, i-t may
not be a reality for future generations to enjoy. Today
wetre here to discuss the future of sol-ar in Idaho, the
affordability and accessibility of it. We can't let this
decision contribute to the conti-nued degradation of our
earth. Making sustainable energy a norm is vital to
preserving the envj-ronment and a grossly misJ-eading study
cannot stray us from that path.
Idaho Power claims to care about cl-ean energy
and the environment, so why are they maki-ng it more
expensive and inaccessible? The profit they are chasing
now isn't worth its effect on the planet and therefore
us. As members of the PUC, it is your job to keep
electricity affordabl-e and regulate the monopolies in our
state. When you make your decision, please think about
the peopl-e and the planet but not the Company.
Another point I'd like to add is about my mom
who works for a company that helps electrical
grid in the
months she
State of Californi-a.
works around
manage the
During the summer
say.
1s that if
the clock to prevent blackouts
that would be largely solvedand brownouts, dD issue
wj-th solar use or increased solar use, so to
The point I'm trying make with this25
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SNIDER
PubIic
her company had the access to solar that Idaho Power does
here, they would certainl-y would not be
and would rather
l-ow-baIling their
be appreci-ativecredit exchange rates
for the extra help to
brown and bl-ackouts,
summer months. It proves
the heal-th of the public,
rather their own profit.
COMMISSIONER ANDERSON :
questions? Thank you for
(The witness left
your
the grid and overall avoidance of
particularly during the hot and dry
Idaho Power doesn't care about
the grid, and the economy, but
Thank you.
Thank you. Any
testimony.
stand. )
COMMISSIONER ANDERSON: Sidney Snider and on
deck we'll- have Sherlyn Baum.
STDNEY SNIDER,
appearing as a public witness, havj-ng been first duly
sworn, testified as follows:
EXAMINATION
BY MR. BURDIN:
A. Will you please state your name and spe11 your
l-ast name for the record?
A. Sidney Snider, S-n-i-d-e-r.
O. And where do you reside?25
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A. Boise.
O. And are you an Idaho Power customer?
A. Yes.
O. Thank you. Go ahead, please.
A. My name is Sidney Snider and Irm a senior at
Timberline High School and here as a part of the Idaho
Cl- j-mate Justice League. I am here today to urge the
members of the PUC to reject Idaho Power's incomplete and
j-naccurate solar study.
Since I was 1itt1e, f loved being outside.
Hiking, walking our dog, and campi-ng were bj-g ways my
family connected to nature and each other. Irve al-so
been super involved with environmental and socioeconomic
justice my whole life and I reaI1y just want the best for
the earth and everyone on it.
One of the first steps to fighting c1j-mate
change in our community is using solar power to our
benefj-t. Idaho Power has stated that they are "dedicated
to keepi-ng the communities we serve thriving, ensuring a
sustainabl-e future, and investing in and offering
customers clean energy choices." However, their recent
VODER study does not reflect those commitments.
Idaho Power is using their study to justify
proposing the replacement of their net metering program
with a much lower export credit rate system which makes
CSB REPORTING
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SNIDER
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208.890. s198
BECERRA
Publ-ic
self-owned solar much less affordabl-e. They used
outdated data that doesn't accurately reflect Idahors
current economic state, nor t.he economic val-ue of solar
energy.
I urge the Public Utilities Commission to
prioritize customers. By rejecting Idaho Powerrs VODER
study, they will- be saving our cli-mate, environment, and
earth for all future generations. So1ar energy needs to
be accessible and affordable for all. Thank you.
COMMISSIONER ANDERSON: Thank you. Any
questions? Thank you for your testimony.
(The witness left stand. )
COMMISSfONER ANDERSON: Sheryln? On deck we'l-1
have Janessa Jensen. Eorgive me if I say these names
wrong. I'm so sorry.
SHERLYN MESILLAS BECERRA,
appearing as a public witness,
sworn, testified as follows:
having been first duly
EXAMINATION
BY MR. BURDIN:
O. Vgill you please state your name and spe11 your
l-ast name for the record?25
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A. My name is Sherlyn Mesillas Becerra. Mesill-as
is spelled M-e-s-i-l--l--a-s. Becerra is spelJ-ed
B-e-c-e-r-r-a.
O. Where do you reside?
A. Boise, Idaho.
O. And are you an
A. No.
0. Thank you. Go
A. Good evening.
opportunity to testify
Mesillas Becerra and f'm a
and a proud member of the
and f am representing the
Idaho Power customer?
ahead, please.
Thank you for allowing me the
is Sherlyn
Capital High School-
today. My name
student at
Idaho Climate Justice League
youth.
I stand before you today to testify against
released in June 2022.Idaho Power's recent study, VODER,
Now, Idaho Powerrs recent study is incomplete. The
environmental- benefits hold a significant weight in
calculating compensation rates, and despite this, Idaho
Power did not inc1ude these rates despite this, Idaho
Power did not j-nclude these environmental- benefits,
claiming that they were not quantifiable, but they are in
fact quantifiable, because sorry, because solar power
can reduce carbon dioxide emissions, which can sl-ow down
or curb climate change, which is a very pressing j-ssue we
face right now, and apart from that, solar can help25
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PubIic
wel-l-, it works more efficiently than non-renewable energy
sources and apart from that, it yields a better financial
return, so, for example, an articl-e from [uninte]-1igib1el
MulIa, one of the most efficient source of electricity
states that sol-ar energy is 207 percent more effective
than, for example, natural 9dS, which is only 38 percent
effectlve when converted into electricity.
Now, not only that, but according to an article
in WorLd Resources Institute, since buildings are
long-lasting investments as they can l-ive up to 1,20 years
and they're responsible for 60 percent of electricity
use, investing j-n energy efficient buildings reduce the
amounts of the money that the cj-ty and the residents have
to pay.
By excluding these benefits, the total export
credit rate according to Idaho Power is 2.3 to four cents
per kilowatt-hour; however, a
Cross-Border yields 18.3 cents
conducted by
kilowatt-hour, a
telIs theand what
study
per
thissigni-ficant increase,
of Idaho is that Idaho
people. These benefits
Power prioritizes its
need to be included
community
profit over
in order to
properly calculate compensation rates, encouraging
communities to purchase sol-ar panels and a11ow Idaho
Power to move forward with their commitment to 100
percent clean energy by 2045.25
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My family wasn't sure whether to buy solar
panels. After the study was released, they were even
more discouraged by Iow compensation rates and high
costs. By not including these benefits, it makes it less
affordable leading to a common problem, inaccessibility
to 1ow income communities.
My parents want to lower utility costs, help our
planet, and support Idaho Power's goaIs, but this
incomplete study limits their accessibility to buy solar
panels and does not align with this commitment, so what
we want is a complete study, including all benefits and
what we need is accessible solar energy for all. Thank
you.
COMMISSIONER ANDERSON: Thank you. Are there
any questions? Thank you for your testimony.
(The witness left stand. )
COMMISSIONER ANDERSON: Janessa Jensen and on
deck will be Sayed Mirbacha.
CSB REPORTING
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208.890. s198
JANESSA JENSEN,
appearj-ng as a public witness,
sworn, testified as follows:
having been first duly
EXAMINATION
BY MR. BURDIN:
O. Will you
last name for the
A. Janessa Jensen, J-e-n-s-e-n.
O. And where do you reslde?
A. Meridian, Idaho.
O. And are you an Idaho Power customer?
A. Yes.
O. Thank you. Go ahead, please.
A. V[e all know rooftop solar panels are an
important part of the energy grid. They add to our
communj-ty by keepi-ng our air cleaner, our mountains
snowj-er, and preventing climate change. Idaho Power
would have their biased study based on outdated economic
information undervafue rooftop solar and justify them
making a profit off of power they are not producJ-ng.
The Idaho Power shareholder earlier said that an
independent study of the value of rooftop solar should be
conducted, and I have a couple of numbers from one of
please state your name and spell your
record?
JENSEN
Public
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Public
those. The study was mentioned by a few other
testifiers. The study shows that Idaho Power should
credi-t homeowners 18.3 cents per kilowatt-hour, which is
8.1 cents more than they currently pay and 14.5 cents
more than their study suggests.
Another person earlier said that the value for
solar power during
per kilowatt-hour.
their power is worth
per hour. However,
access to cl-ean energy and
fear a future where climate
the summer months is around L7 cents
Individuals deserve to be paid what
in these export rates, 1,7-LB cents
that is what I should be asking
today. However, that is not what I'm asking. I am
asking that the price disparity does not become worse.
If people were paid what their energy is worth,
solar would be widely used and the benefits of this clean
energy would be felt throughout Idaho. Climate change is
happening now because of these low solar rates. The heat
waves, droughts, and extreme fj-res have already begun j-n
Idaho.
To keep things from getting worse now, I want
buying solar power to be worthwhile. We all deserve
daily
look
Iife. Pl-ease help us
change
create
forward to, so I ask you, members
do your jobs, regulate fdaho Power for
clean ai-r. I don't want to
interferes with my
a future that I
of the PUC,
the benefit
can
please
of us25
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MIRBACHA
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all, help
rej ecting
improve our communities and our lives by
Idaho Power's solar study.
COMMISSIONER ANDERSON: Thank
That is all.
you. Are there
any questj-ons? Thank you for your testimony.
(The witness left stand. )
COMMISSIONER ANDERSON: I apprecj-ate
applauses j-n the back. I dj-dn't have to hear
your sil-ent
anything.
SAYED MIRBACHA,
appearing as a public witness, having been first duly
sworn, testified as follows:
EXAMINATION
BY MR. BURDIN:
O. Would you please state your name and spell your
last name for the record?
A. My name is Sayed Mirbacha. I spe11 it by
M-i-r-b-a-c-h-a.
O. And where do you reside?
A. Boise, Idaho.
O. And are you an Idaho Power customer?
A. No.
O. Thank you. Go ahead, please.
A. So my name is Sayed Mirbacha and I am a senior25
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M]RBACHA
Public
at Tlmberline Hiqh School- and also a member of the
Timberline [unintelligible] CJ-ub and Idaho Sierra Cl-ub
and Idaho Climate Justice League, and I want to talk
about the benefits of
thanks
solar power and our environment, so
for giving me the opportunity tofirst of all,
ta1k, so the
it to reduce
of countries
solar power is new technology. We can use
the electricity bil-l-s, savj-ng water. A lot
and communities use turbines to produce the
electricity.
Another thing is saving money. We can save more
than 25 percent of our money by using solar power, and
next thing is creating jobs, a lot of opportunities for
the people who work by creating solar power and it's
using a renewable energy source and we can use it.
Renewable solar energy has an important rol-e in reducing
greenhouse gas emissions and climate change, which is
critical to protecting humans, wildIife, and ecosystem.
Sol-ar energy can also improve air quality and reduce
water use from energy production, so go buy solar and
save the earth. That's all.
COMMISSIONER ANDERSON: Thank you very much.
Are there any questions? Thank you for your testimony.
(The witness left stand. )
COMMISSIONER ANDERSON: I'm going to circle back
for a few people that didn't answer. Charlie Pegu?25
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RAJBHANDARI
Public
Tyler Lobdell?
Senna Ue11e?
Shawn Nield? Andrew Li? Paul- Drake?
Another one here, Shiva I cantt Ray,
it starts with a Ray, last name.
AUDIENCE: Rajbhandari.
COMMISSIONER ANDERSON: Pl-ease come up and help
us spell that. Thank you.
SHIVA RAJBHANDARI,
appearing as a public witness, having been first duly
sworn, testified as follows:
EXAMINATION
BY MR. BURDIN:
A. Please state your name and spel1 your last name
for the record.
A. My name is Shiva Rajbhandari,
R-a- j -b-h-a-n-d-a-r-i .
O. And where do you reside?
A. Here in Boise.
O. And are you an Idaho Power customer?
A. Yes.
O. Thank you. Go ahead, please.
A. Thanks for the opportunity to testify
evening and for staying late and for creating
thls
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opportunities across the state to hear from constituents.
Irm a senior at Boise High and a third generation
Idahoan. Ir11 be a voter for the first time in this
upcoming election and I'm appalled by the VODER study.
Growing up in the 13th fastest growing city in
the country, I know how pivotal the time is now to
prevent the lunintelligiblel. I love to run in the Boi-se
foothills, fish the Snake and Boise and to ski at Bogus,
and the cl-imate crisis and ecosystem threaten all of
t.hat, but I've also seen the more severe repercussions of
the crisis of our time.
In 20L2, my grandma contracted lung cancer, dil
increasingly common disease, especially in the fa1l where
pollutj-on leve1s are rarely healthy, and it wasn't for
another few years before I real-ized that fossil fuel-s
were responsible for her death. However, smog isn't the
largest problem facing my family. Within the next 20
years due to climate change, the receding Himal-ayan
glaciers witl unleash a water crisis so severe it will-
destabilize the entire Indian subcontinent, including the
part where my family lives.
Although here in Idaho we wil-L have a water
crisis of our own and we do, it will- pale in comparison.
One of the most unfortunate things about the climate
crisis is that the country least responsible for
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will suffer the most.
responsibJ-e for gIobaI
acti-on rests squarely
I want to be
on our shoulders.
emissions and l-east equipped to handle the repercussj-ons
We live in the country most
the need forwarming,' hence,
able to have kids knowing they'11
be able to grow up and enjoy the same outdoor experiences
that I have. I want them to grow up in a more just wor1d
where socioeconomi-c factors don't determine who l-ives and
dies. I want to be able to look them in the face and
tell- them I worked to protect thej-r planet.
You may think that the decision you're making in
the case affects only a small portion of Idaho's
population who can afford rooftop solar. That's not
true. Sol-ar is something that benefits everyone in the
community. Rooftop sofar across our state is key to
building resilient communities that can keep the lights
on when global warming i-nduced drought causes our dams to
produce below capacity or when earthquakes damage our
aging infrastructure on which the grid was built.
Community-owned rooftop solar is sj-gnificant in
charting the transition from fossil- fuels and giving all
Idahoans a chance to control where their energy comes
from. Rooftop solar creates high-paying jobs and spreads
them out across the state so that all communiti-es
benefit. Rooftop solar is key to fighting climate change25
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RAJBHANDAR]
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in our state, protecting not just the lands we recreate
orl, the water we drink, and the
the people in our lives who we
and around the world.
I urge this Commission
study and charter an independent
Idahoans make fair money for the
and the environmental and health
air we breathe, but also
Iove both here in Idaho
to throw out the VODER
study that ensures
energy, the resiliency,
benefits associated with
rooftop so1ar. Right now in my microecon class, we're
learning about these natural monopolies like Idaho Power
and they rea11y can exploit the people and they do if
they're not regulated, and that's why this Commission has
smart people like you and it's J-mportant that you do the
work for the people, not just for the profit of fdaho
Power. Thanks for your time and I stand for questions.
COMMISSIONER ANDERSON: Thank you very much.
Any questions? Thank you for your testimony.
THE WTTNESS: Thank you.
(The witness left stand. )
COMMISSIONER ANDERSON: We have exhausted the
sign-in l-ist. ff I have forgotten or mi-ssed anybody,
please raise your hand. Letfs take you first.
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WELLE
Public
JENNA WELLE,
appearing as a public witness, havi-ng been first duly
sworn, testified as follows:
EXAMINATION
BY MR. BURDIN:
O. Please state your name and spell your last name
for the record.
Hi, my name is Jenna We11e, W-e-1-1-e.
And where do you reside?
Boise.
And are you an Idaho Power customer?
My family and I are customers
are considering installing solar
Yes.
A
o
A
o
A of Idaho
Power and we panels, but
in light of recent events, itrs quite discouraging, so
I'm a junior at Timberline High School and I'm also an
active member of Idaho Climate Justice League.
The Idaho Public Utilities Commission must make
a greater effort to protect the people of this great
state by properly regulating Idaho Power. Specifically,
the PUC should not blindly accept Idaho Power's heavily
biased, inaccurate solar study which undervalues the
energy produced by privately-developed energy solutj-ons.
The PUC's lack of oversight wil-l- l-ead to higher25
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SU
Public
energy
Please
costs and fewer power
stand with me and the
al-ternatives for taxpayers.
community and reject this
study and require greater
Idaho Power. Thank you.
transparency and accuracy from
CoMMISSIoNER ANDERSON: Thank you. Any
questions? Thank you for your testimony.
(The witness left stand. )
COMMISSIONER ANDERSON: Let's take the
indlvidual that was sitting next.
CINDY SU,
appearing as a public witness, having been first duly
sworn, testified as follows:
EXAMINATION
BY MR. BURDIN:
O. Please state your name and spe1J- your last name
for the record.
A. My name is Cindy Su.My last
and Itm a
name is spelled
customer of IdahoS-u. I'm from Boise, Idaho,
Power.
O. Thank you. Go ahead, please.
A. Each year renewable energy gets more affordable
and there are predictable trends for the pricing of25
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SU
Publ-ic
sofar; however,
and world events
electricity. In
cal-culations of
these predictions are
can especially al-ter
the VODER study done
the energy costs that
not always correct
the real prices of
by Idaho Power, the
Idaho Power avoids
are outdated because of thefrom customer-generated solar
outdated resources using the
The first resource 202L integrated
forecast of
study.
is from the
resource plan by Idaho Power where
electric prices is inaccurate with
its
true price trends.
The other two resources are from hi-storical electric
market prices from 2019 to 2021, which are also outdated
and cause IPC to underval-ue their solar-weighted avoided
costs by 68 percent according to Cross-Border energy when
compared to the most recent year of energy and balanced
market prices from August 2021 to July 2022.
The three matrix used in VODER also do not
refl-ect the significant i-ncreases and market prices for
electricity and natural gas that have especially
increased because of the recent war in Ukraine. I am
demanding that the energy costs Idaho Power avoids
through their customer-generated solar are cal-culated
through Western energy and balanced market prices from
the prior 12 months adjusted based on naturaf gas market
prices for the next year.
I come from multiple environmental organJ-zations25
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SU
PubIic
run by youth, because we care about the future of our
planet. We are currently the ones that will- be most
affected by today's actions. I am speaking here today to
advocate for fair and up-to-date solar energy costs so
that we can continue the momentum we have towards 100
percent cfean energy, and unjust and outdated cost
compensation for solar poses a roadblock towards getting
to that goal and that is why I spoke here today to
overcome that.
COMMISSIONER ANDERSON: Thank you. Any
questions? Hearing none, thank you for your testimony.
(The witness l-eft stand.)
COMMISSIONER ANDERSON: WeI1, folks, have we got
here? Please, and you'I1 be on deck.anyone el-se out
I'm breaking my own rules a Iittle bit, but we do have
get everybody available that cansome timer so let try to
testify. Thank you.
25
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McPHERSONPublic
JON McPHERSON,
appearing as a public witness, having been first duly
sworn, testified as fol.l-ows:
THE I{ITNESS: My name is John McPherson. Eirst
name is spelled Jon, last name M-c-P-h-e-r-s-o-n. Irm
the regional sales manager for BIue Raven Solar.
EXAMINATION
BY MR. BURDIN:
0. Where do you reside?
A. Oh, I'm sorry, in Middleton.
O. And are you an Idaho Power customer?
A
o
A
I am, yes.
Thank you. Go
Yeah, as I was
ahead,
saying,
So1ar.
please.
Irm the regional sales
manager for Blue Raven Obviously,
Idaho Power,
I've got
different interests here than but some of
the history wj-th Blue Raven and Idaho Power gj-ves me a
and it seems1itt1e bit of skeptici-sm,
at times that Idaho Power
we'll sdy, at best
operates under different rules.
There t s been a lot of great poi-nts made here
the study specifically, which are all
won't get into those. Those are
tonight and about
valid points. I25
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PubIic
measurable and a lot of more, you know,just personal
their owncriteria that people have gi-ven, such as
environmental concerns or health concerns, things like
that, which, again, valid, but like I mentioned, it seems
at times that they're operating under different rules,
and what I mean by that is the history with Bl-ue Raven
specifically, you know, we were sort of, one could almost
Say, attacked by Idaho Power, and I'm going to be very
careful- with my words so we don't get attacked again, but
that was almost started because of the words of a few
high school kids going around knocking on doors, setting
appointments for us trying to, you know, further our
message and help homeowners, so they said a few things
that were maybe not in line with what we're actually
doing and, you know, what we should have been saying and
some of the dj-scl-osures required by the state, so we've
addressed that.
Werve moved forward; however, the skepticism
comes because if you
to reach out to Idaho
as just an Idaho Power customer were
Power today and say that you were
they' 11 vehemently discourageinterested in going solar,
you from doing so. They have a whol-e team that they will
direct you to and they'1l talk to you for 20 minutes or
as long as you want to listen to them, so it's very
contrary to their public refations message, which is, you25
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McPHERSON
Public
know, a
by 2045,
beautiful one. They want 100 percent clean power
but they're telling people not to go solar and
giving all the different reasons why, very subtle
messages on their websi-te to the same effect, and in
addition, they're te1ling, you know, these proposals that
they've made to change these rates and such have already
been implemented.
I've got several customers of mine who have tol-d
me that they have called personally and said they've
already changed them. Irve explai-ned the background.My
kindtime j-s running out, so I'11 make it quj-ck, but just
of recapping, though, Like I said, there were a lot of
good points made here tonight. Irm going to submit some
more substantiaf written comments, but one of the things
that I wanted to say and points that I really wanted to
make, a few people made this already, is that we're
actually on the same side. Solar and Idaho Power shoul-d
be working together and if done in an engineerj-ng way
could actually be very beneficial to Idaho Power.
When taking, liker dD analysis, you know, of
potential growth or existing neighborhoods, you could
survey, you know, the best solar homes and energy needs
for those areas and subsidize the energy needs with solar
and, you know, maybe even in a more than one-to-one
credit ratio for those customers, sor again, I will also25
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208 .8 90 . 5198
MEDINA
Public
submit some written comments. I'11 wrap it up because I
know we're ending here, so thank you for your time.
COMMISSIONER ANDERSON: Thank you,
Mr. McPherson. Any questions? Thank you for your
testimony.
(The witness left stand. )
appearing as a public
ERIC MEDINA,
witness, having been first duly
sworn, testified as follows:
EXAMTNATION
BY MR. BURDIN:
O. Please state your name and spell your l-ast name
for the record.
A Hello, everybody. My name i-s Eric Medina. My
is M-e-d-i-n-a. First, I want to give a big
to the PUC for having a meeting today and for
last name
thank you
allowing
as all of
Power as
all our wonderful- students to testify, as well
biq shot out to fdahoyou for
well for
attendj-ng,
taking the
and a
time to listen to us as weII
as listening to why we are standing in rejection and
opposition to the Idaho Power study.
O. And where you do you reside?25
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Public
A. I reside in Boise.
O. And are you
A. Yes, I am a customer.
for my bill and I l-ive a1one,
that. Let's get that moving a
I just paid about $140
so hopefully, we can change
Iittle faster.
please.O. Thank you.
A. Now, first,
some time to address
Go ahead,
I want to begin, I know we've had
the PUC directly as wel-l as Idaho
Power, but I'm actually going to go ahead and invite all
of you all to quickly shift your focus right over there
to the students that were here since about 5:00 today
that are testifying last despite being first here to
testif y, so I think j-t's pretty ref l-ective of the fact
that despite being here, being very interested, we have
them go at the very end of tonight to share their
opinions about why climate change is going to impact them
the most, yet we force them to go last.
Now, qetting back to it, I do want to talk a
l-ittle bit about what I've been abl-e to experience being
able to work so closely with our students. First , for
the first time, we were abl-e to do outside messaging for
our Spanish-speaking communities and that's because of
the students that we have here. We have a student that
started her own non-profit because she is dedicated to
fighting climate change, because all of them here, al-l25
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Publ-i-c
they have known for the l-ast 15, L6, L7 years is a
1if etime of cl-imate change.
I know my over 30's here, right, can imagine a
very different worl-d when they were 15, 76, but right now
we have condemned them to a future of climate change
where all they will know is fires. AlI they will know is
droughts. A1I they will- know is working in the fields
while they have
working outside
I want
j obs.
to conclude the
focus to them,
statement by, again,
because
to breathe in toxi-c fumes when they're
highliqhting
leading the
with them.
purpose
them are
charge up here.
I rve been abl-e
the
I've been
theyrre the ones
able to be there
to read their statements of
as they apply to colleges and
eager to create solutions, to
every
work
single one of
alongside a1l
of us.
access to
them a servi-ce
combat climate
of you all to create a better future for all
Limiting access to solar, limiting
fighting climate change is not going to do
as they move on in their futures trying to
change. I stand for any questions.
COMMISSIONER ANDERSON: Thank you for your
testimony. Are there any questions? Thank you.
(The witness l-eft stand. )
COMMISSIONER ANDERSON: Folks? Anybody else out
there? Thank you. I see you back there. Come on up,25
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CURRY
Public
please, and the only guilty party in the
l-ist had been
rtter so there
developed
was nobody
gone through
invol-ved in
room for how the
tonight would be
that.
and
else
DAVID CURRY,
appearing as a public witness, having been first duly
sworn, testif ied as foll-ows:
EXAMINATION
BY MR. BURDIN:
O. Please state your name.
A. David Curry, C-u-r-r-y.
0. And where do you reside?
A. Meridian.
O. And are you an Idaho Power customer?
A. Yes.
O. Thank you. Go ahead, please.
A. Yeah, I wasnrt planning on testifying, but
therers an area that didn't get covered by the other
people who have testified, because I came from out of
state. f moved here from Cali-fornia about 10 years ago
and their policy -- I bought solar in California in 2005,
and at that time they had tj-me-of-day metering, which was
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cents a kilowatt-hour in the off peak. This was in the
summer months, so it was very easy to justify sol-ar.
I was quite surprised when I moved to Idaho
about 10 years ago and we bought solar about five years
ago that it was even a one-to-one, and this seems like
you're rea1Iy going the other direction, and recently we
consldered adding on to our system.
We currentl-y have six-and-a-half kj-l-owatt-hours
and it produces about seven-and-a-half megawatts per year
and we were considering adding on, but when I found out
that even though we're grandfathered in our current
system that there's potential changes to make that less
economical. Therers no way we would add on if it
actually gets reduced below one-to-one, so I would
consider even going in the other directj-on and making the
credlts higher than what you put out, at l-east in the
time of day for what you draw, so I would also encourage
the PUC or perhaps Idaho Power to j-nvestigate what other
surrounding states have done and what the justification
is for that.
Irm not sure if the current I was at PG&E in
California, so Irm not sure if their rates are the same
or what justified their changes, but it might be worth
investigating other places, because California, despite
al-I the other things people may think, are further down
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Public
the road as far as any of the cli-mate j-ssues and thinqs
l-ike that than Idaho is, so thank you.
Thank youCOMMISSIONER ANDERSON :very much.
Are there any questions? Thank you for your testimony,
si-r.
(The witness l-eft stand. )
COMMISSIONER ANDERSON: Folks? All the way in
the back.
CHELSEA ALEECE,
appearing as a public witness, having been first duly
sworn, testif ied as follows:
EXAMINATION
BY MR. BURDIN:
O, Pl-ease state your name and spell your l-ast name
for the record.
A
a
A
0
A
o
A
It's Chel-sea Aleece, A-I-e-e-c-e.
And where do you reside?
Meridian, Idaho.
And are you an Idaho Power customer?
I am.
Thank you. Go ahead,please.
Idaho Power customer, ISo along with being an25
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am also privileged to help run a company here that
We actually had two of
so I wanted to thank them
provides sol-ar for homeowners.
our homeowners speak tonight,
and al-so these students that are sitting out here for
speaking up for our homeowners here.
I want to kind of take it a different direction.
There were some amazing points made by
could reiterate, but I donrt need to.
I want to make, though, is that Idaho
of people moving here and for awhile
gosh, why would anybody want to move
of them from Washington, but I did it
we have so many people moving here is
have a lot of our freedoms that makes
solar companies. I
here tonight next to
everybody that I
One of the points
has such an infl-ux
was l-ike oh, my
to Idaho, I was one
and the reason why
because we sti11
our country
I wanted to get into is for our
been incredibly honored to sit
numerous companies that we are often
tonight we're here as
I
incredible as wel-I as our state, but making these changes
is just one more step of your pulling back on the reins
for homeowners to have this independence, so by
restraining them even more, you're just tightening that
noose around their neck that they can't have the freedoms
that we should be able to provide.
The next thinq
have
looked at as competitors, but
friends to defend our homeowners and our industry along25
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ALEECE
Publ-ic
with our distributing company, because we know the power
of solar.
Eliminating this or changing this net metering
is truly going to make it so much more difficult for
hundreds, if not thousands, of people in our community
that are making a Iivlng off of providing solar to our
homeowners, so by doing that and changing these rates so
drastically, you're economically changi-ng the futures of
these students as wel-l as their familiesr so please truly
consider the changTes that you're doing and stop taking
the money and funnel-ing it to a large corporation, but
continue to l-ook at the freedoms and the benefits of our
community and the future we have sitting here. That is
al-1.
COMMISSIONER ANDERSON :Thank you. Any
testimony.questions? Thank you
(The witness
for your
l-eft stand. )
COMMISSIONER ANDERSON: A11 the way in the back.
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208.890.5198
TYLER GRANGE,
appearing as a public witness, having been first duly
sworn, testif ied as foll-ows:
EXAMINATION
BY MR. BURDIN:
O. Please state your name and spe1l your l-ast name
for the record.
A. Tyler Grange. Last name Grange, G-r-a-n-g-e.
O. And where do you reside?
A. Eag1e.
O. And are you an Idaho Power customer?
A. f am.
O. Thank you. Go ahead, please.
A. Yeah, so I just want to thank everybody for
being here tonight. The PUC, thank you for the time.
Idaho Power, thank you for being here, and all the
homeowners, solar members and students, thanks everybody
for being here, so itrs cool. Itrs cool to see everybody
come together and have an opportunlty to voice their
opinion.
I was back here in 2019 when this was a topic,
rea1lyagain, about changing net
cool things thatrs awesome
metering. One of the
about being in the solar
GRANGE
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industry is solar is a product and opportunj-ty for
everybody. In the polj-tical worl-d we have, you know,
it's very divisive. You know, you have the left, the
right. You have to kind of pick a side, but whatrs
reaIly cool about solar, it's applicable to everybody, so
you have people that may not beli-eve in t.he climate
change. You have people that do bel-ieve in the climate
change. You have people that like it for the
capitalistic side of things of taking control of their
money and people that have their varied reasons, and
that's what is awesome about solar. Itrs applicable for
everybody. It brings everybody together in a product and
industry, but more j-mportantly, for an opportunity to
benefit many people's l-ivesr so that's what I'm
passionate about about the sol-ar industry is the effects
that it has on people personally.
Back in 2019, it was understood that Idaho Power
was able to have the opportunity to come back to the
table to discuss the net metering policies and make
changes, but it was understood that that study needed to
be fair and credible. As shown by all the testj-monies
that were given tonight, a 1ot of people may not think
that it is a fair and credible study and might be biased,
so take that i-nto consideration of what the PUC's words
were awhile d9o, to make it fair and credible and have it
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be understood by the average person and not have it be
extremely complicated or hard to understand.
One of the greatest benefits of sol-ar is the
Ioss of transmission and an everyday type of power
source, so you have utilities that have, you know, power
generators mi-les and miles and miles away. According to
a study done by the Energy Information Admlnistration, 34
percent of aI1 power from the average facilities are lost
in just the transmission.
Whatrs great about sol-ar, it goes from your roof
to your meter, so therers hardly any loss of transmission
therer so itrs kind of exciting that not much energy is
wasted there.
The next thing I wanted to quickly talk about
is, you know, having the privilege to run a solar
business in the area. The amount of jobs that we're able
to create in the Valley j-s very exciting, so just in
our I see the timer so I'I1 make it short. Just in
our own littl-e company, you know, we're able to provide
jobs for 20-30 people and that doesnrt take into
consideration all the benefits that go to our
distributors, all the manufacturers by the opportunity of
providing solar for homeowners.
It creates l-ots of jobs and this study i-f
strongly considered and accepted will affect the families
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of the jobs, you know, jobs of the famil-ies that we're
providing jobs for and I do not want to see that happen,
because it's going to put us in a difficult position of
having to close people's jobs and have people struggle
for that and look for other work, so like it was
mentioned before, I don't think any
say that fdaho Power doesn't deserve
of us are trying to
believe they
reaIIy good,
to make money. I
Power to be ashould. I believe Idaho
strong utility, especially compared to some
out there.utilities that are
I believe Idaho Power
believe that there is a great
discussed previously, to have
does a great
opportunity,
some sort of
job. I just
AS WAS
synergy
between the private sector and people privately investing
in their own energy products on their home and having
that work in unison with Idaho Power to be able to create
a realIy great opportunity to be an example for the rest
of the country of unifying homeowners and utilities and
creating something rea11y awesomer so that's it.
COMMISSIONER ANDERSON: Thank you. Are there
any questions? Thank you for your testimony.
(The witness left stand. )
COMMISSIONER ANDERSON: So I appreciate everyone
thishere. Anybody else?
opportunity to thank
ff not, I'm going to take
everybody for coming tonight and,25
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208.890. s198
a.l-so, thank everybody for a wonderful decorum that's been
shown and, also, for abiding by the rules we have and not
have any outbursts, and prj-or, Eric, before your comment,
I was going to be very grateful and am very grateful for
the students that did speak tonight.
It's a lesson, an important lesson, in civics,
and the opportunity to waj-t to the end sometimes gives
them an opportunity to learn more about what the concerns
are in the community,so I am grateful for the students
and their opportunity to speak, and
of you and I hope that we can come
that are here tonight
Irm grateful
to a decision
(The
for aII
soon and with thatr w€ are now adjourned.
hearing adjourned at 9:05 p.m.)
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CSB REPORTING
208.890. s198
AUTHENTICATION
This is to certify that
proceedings held in the matter of
application to complete the study
the foregoing
Idaho Power Companyrs
review phase of
and benefits ofthe comprehensive study of costs
on-site customer qeneration and for authority to
, and 84, commencing
3, 2022, dt the
implement
at 6:00 p.
Commissi-on
changes to Schedules 6, I
m., on Thursday, November
Hearing Room, 11331 W. Chinden Blvd., Building
8, Suite 207-A, Boise, fdaho, is a true and correct
transcript of said proceedings and the original thereof
for the file of the Commission.
/)tch {*o.S
CONSTANCE S. BUCYCertified Shorthand Reporter
/.r^::. iJi*r.r:{t : F.-.r,,.,.t',..t..rrr.;.,,1g;$fu .r1,}:rs..,r".
,i)
NOTARYPUBLIC. SIATE OF IDAHO
COMMISSION NUMBER
MYCOMMISSION EXPIRES
12895
9-5-A24
COI{STAI,ICE S BUCY
25
732 AUTHENTICATION