20221116Customer Hearing Transcript Vol I.pdf

BEFORE THE IDATIO PTIBIJIC TIIIIJITIES COMMISSION
IN TIIE MATTER OF IDAIIO PO$IER
COMPAIiISI S APPLICATION TO
COUPI,ETE THE STI'DY REVTBW
PHASE OF THE COMPREHENSI\IE
STUDY OF COSTS AIID BENEFITS
OF ON.SITE CUSTOMER GENERATION& FOR AIXIHORITY TO IUPIJEMENT
CIIANGES TO SCHEDUIJES 6 , 8, AI{De4-
BEFORE
COMMISSIONER ERIC ANDERSON
COMMISSIONER iIOHN EIIATBURN
DATE:October 2'l , 2022 - 5:00 p.m.
Red Lion IIoteI
1555 Pocatello Creek Road
Pocatello, Idaho 83201
LTOCATf ON:
REPORTED BY:
JAr{ET FRENCH, CSR NO. 946
Notary Pr:b1ic
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Case No. IPe-E-22-22
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APPEARANCES
For the Staff:
OFFICE OF THE ATTORNEY GENERAI,
By: Riley Newton
11331 W Chinden Boulevard, Building 8,
BoiEe, Idaho 83720-0074
riley. newton@puc . idaho . gov
For the Company:
IDAIIO POT{ER COMPAIIIY
By: LiEa D. NordEtrom
L22L WeEt ldaho Street
Boiee, Idaho 83702
Inords trom@idahopowe r . eom
Suite 201A
Hearing - October 27,2022 3
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PROCEEDINGS
COMMISSIONER ANDERSON: WeIl r ![ood evening. It t E
5:00 and it I s the tiure and the place to have our
Custoner Hearing for Caee No. IPC-E-22-22, also
ref ered to as In the Mat,ter of Idaho Power Company' s
Applicatsion to Complete a Stsudy to Review Phaee and
Compreheneive Study of CoEte and BenefitE of On-Site
CuEtomer Generation and for Authority to Implement
Changes to Schedule 6, 8, and 84.
Can everybody hear me okay too?
The purpose of thLE trearing iE to take
testimony from memberE of the public in reference to
Idaho Powert s request ttrat waE f iled with the
eomiesion on June 30, 2022, and ao thiE is your
evening to give your testimony. This evening beJ.ongs
to you guys.
We don r t have a lot of people signed up. $Ie
are going to put some time conEtraintE, but letrs be
conservative on our time so that everybody has an
opportunity. And if you have written some ttrings down
in ttre past, and eubmitted then, we will read aII of
ttrose. And we alEo have some foras in the back. If
you dontt wiEh to speak tonightr 1rou are more than
welcome to f ile a written cornment, aIEo.
Hearing - October 27,2022
I shouLd have introdueed myself and
ConrrisEioner Chatburn. My nanne iE Eric Arrdereon. I I m
the chairman of thiE hearing, and lrm joined with
Comrissioner ilohn Chatburn.
And at thiE point we have EeveraL partsies
that have intervened, mu].t,iple pubtie workshops have
been held by both the company and tshe Pub1ic Utilities
ComurisEion.
Tonightts objective to take live publie
testimony that wiLl be added to the underlyJ-ng record
in the cage. The coururiEEionerE will review the facts
and evidence in the record and make a finaL decision
for ttreEe proceedings.
At thiE time I would like to docr:nent the
partsies that are here for the purpose of our record.
IlIe can begin with Etaf f wtro is represented by Attorney
General Riley Newton who iE over here.
MR. NE9|IION: Good evening.
COMMISSIONER A}{DERSON: Arrd we aIEo have fdaho
Power and joining us tonight is Lisa Nordst,rom.
We1come.
MS. NORDSTROM: Thank you.
COMMISSIONER AIIDERSON: We have Eeveral other
interveners. Not aII of them are going to be here , of
course, buts I think for tshe recordr E Eake it iE good
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Hearing - October 27,2022
for you SJrryE to know who also is intervening in this
cage. The first, and we have several. We have nine
in total: Clean Energry Opportunities for ldaho, Mike
Heckler; Hydro One ldaho Hydro excuse me. Hydro
One ie former Ton Arkoosh is tshe couneel; Idaho
IrrigatJ.on Punpere AsEociation, Inc., Eric Oleen;
Idaho ConEervation Leagnre, Marie KelLner; InduetriaL
CuEtomere of ldaho, Peter Richardgoni City of BoiEe,
Mary Grant; Richard Klucktrohn, Richard Klucktrohn
trimeelf ; Micron Technologlll, ilim Swier; Idatro Solar
Otrrners Network, rfoEhua HiII.
Ttre intervenere do have an opportsunity to
crogg-exarrine a witnesE ttrat doee t,estify. Under
normal cireumEtances, that doeenrt happen very often.
It may once or twice during a hearing. Itrs usually
just for clarification if tshere is somebody that
doeEnt t understand eourething.
And we haven t t had a lot of public hearings
in a wtrile because of COVID and everything elsei so
I rm a little green at this. Bear with me and I I 11 do
my best to be polite to everlrone.
And since we donr t have too many people
tonight, w€ are going to have three minuteE. We are
going to go ahead and allow to you epeak get your
point across. LetrE try to be conservat,ive, though,
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Hearing - October 27,2022
maybe five minutes and hit your point. If someone
else has Eaid something aluroEt identical, you can
def er to them and Eay thiE iE, r beLieve, the Ea.me
thing that Charley over here did or whatever.
Okay. Once I call your name, we will caLl
you for-ward, and I wiII Eyrear you in from here. And
at ttrat time I will aEk for your nane, and please
spell your last name. And I|11 aLso aEk if you are a
member of ldaho Power if you are a customer of
Idaho Power I E . Arrd at that point in time you will be
able to give your testimony.
Tonight we have r.Tanet, French iE our court
report,er and Ehe will be keeping a transcript of ttre
record and that will be wtrat we refer tso when we
actually go to deliberationE on this matter.
Taylor, couLd you have tshe doorE maybe Ehut.
Ttrank you.
I believe Irwe eovered all the incidentals
that we have to do, and I think at thiE point we will
gto ahead and call the f irst witneEE.
If there is any questions of uE about the
procedure that I have not covered, wouLd you please
just aEk now and we wilL try to clear it up. If not,
I ' LL go ahead and caII ttre f irEt witness.
Seeing no questions, may I have Mike Larkin
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Hearing - October 27,2022 7
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come up to the podir.rur.
MR. DIIKE LARKIN: Mike Larkin, L-A-R-K- I -N, f rom
Pocatello. Atrd, y€8, I am an Idaho Power customer.
COMMISSIONER AIiIDERSON: Thank you. And since you
are the first one out of ttre chute, I think I rm goingr
to go atread and swear you in. And then for ttre futsure
ones, then we will go ahead and give your nFrnes so
that
WitI you please raise your rights hand.
MTKE IJARKIN,
first duly Eworn to telL ttre truth relating to eaid
cause, teEtified as follows:
COMMfSSIONER ANDERSON: Welcone, Mike. Give
your testimony.
MR. LARKINs My wife and I inetalLed solar panels
on our horre about six years ago. For the mosts part
they have worked very weII, but it will be several
more years before they are paid off. We did it not,
intending to save a lot of money but becauEe we
thought it was ttre right thing to do.
We ehould be encouraging people to instaLl
solar panele on their home. Idaho Power I s proposal.
wiII diecourage from instalLing the soLar panele.
Hearing - October 27,2022
f come from a faruring famiJ.y. Farns in muctr
of ttre west have lees and less water to grow crops.
It I E pretty obvious that climate change is redueing
our Enow pack and hotter and dryer Eumera are
increasing our water loEE f rom pJ.ants and eoil . We
should be doing everything we can to traneition to
renewable energry as rapidly as possible over the next
decade. Idaho Power I E transition to renewable energy
by 2O25 iE too late.
Solar powered hones make more sense than
having large solar far:ns ttrat take up thouEande of
acres of either ag land or wiLdlife habitat,. Having
thoEe solar panels on your home meanE eEsentialJ.y no
additional loss of land.
The demand for more electric power will only
increaee aE we transition to electric vehicles and
heat pumps for heating. The best way to meet that
demand iE for homeownerE and Landowners to generate at
leaEt Eome of their own electric power with solar
panels. Every independent review that Irve seen of
the proE and cons of homes solar Eay it's either a
waEh or actually a benefit for utility companies.
I thought the purpose of utility companies
was to serve the people. I think Idaho Power I e
proposal is geared largeJ.y to serve themselves. I
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Hearing - October 27,2022 9
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trope you vote no on their propoeal.
Thank you.
COMMISSIONER AIIDERSON: Ttrank you, Mr.
appreciate it.
Next we have Sarah ilackson.
Larkin. I
SARAII TACKSON,
first duly sworn to teII the truth relating to Eaid
cause, t,estif ied aE followe:
COMMISSIONER AIIDERSON: Thank you. PIeaEe give
me your narle and spell your IaEt nane.
MS. JACKSON: Sarah ilackson, iI-A-C-K-S-O-N, and I
live trere in Pocatsello and trave been a customer of
Idaho Power for many years. And I do not have written
prepared testimony. I did Eubmit written testimony
before theEe hearinge were planned and encouraging
that we hold public hearings. I dontt know if I need
to submits additional written testimony, but I do have
just a very few cosurentE.
I agree with everything that Mike Larkin
EayE and wholly support that. I have a EmalL Emall
home, and I had the roof repl.aced thiE spring, and I
f igrured once I did that, that I g the right t,ime to do
so1ar. I had always had ttrat in the back of my mind,25
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Hearing - October 27,2022 10
but I just figrrred thiE iE the right time to do it.
And I have yet, to have my new net meter
inEtalled. The Eolar iE on my roof i Eo I rm a very new
cuEtomer to solar, having not actually pu1led the
Ewitch yet. It,rE very diEcouraging to me to hear that
Idaho Power is looking at reducing the rates before
I lve even had a ehance to turn my soLar power on. And
according to the studieE that Irve been eeeing that
they are very fLawed and need to be eeriously looked
at.
But, I mean, climate change is happening and
supporting those ehangee and encouraging rooftop soLar
iE something that I think is very inportant and wery
critical. we Eaw thie Elrtrtrner, I think, aome of the
indicationE that what,rE going to happen. So I
think waiting to do that and discouraging people to
inEtall solar iE not the right thing to do.
COMMISSIONER ANDERSON: Ttranke, Sarah. And just
ao you know, sinee you trave given written testimony
alreadyr }ro1l do not need to Eubmit new written
testsimony. What you shared with us will become part
of Ehe record.
MS . .IACKSON: Okay. Thank you very much.
COMMISSIONER AIiIDERSON: Thank you very uruch.
Brad Barrott. Probably got, that nErme wrong.
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Hearing - October 27,2022 11
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I rn Eorry.
MR. BARROTT: Nope. You got it right.
BRAD BARROTT,
firEt duly sworn to teII ttre truttr relating to said
carrge, teEtif ied aE follows:
COMMISSIONER AI{DERSON: Thank you. Please give
uE your narne, spell your IaEt, and wtrether you are a
cuEtomer.
MR. BARROTT: Brad Barrott, B-A-R-R-O-T-T, and I
am a cuEtomer of Idaho Power.
COMMISSIONER ANDERSON: Ttrank you. P1ease give
uE your testimony.
MR. BARROTT: Okay. I justs wanted to give you a
perspective from people that work within the EoLar
industry. I rm a partner in a local Idaho based eolar
company. First off , If d ll,ke to Eay thank you to each
of you for being here today and lJ.stening to uE
pub1ie1y, so that thiE waE very thoughtful of yorl, and
I appreciate you naking the trip over to Pocatello.
So thank you for that.
Alnd just as you consider the decisionE
regarding the eoLar industry in ldaho, I'd like to
point out very specifJ.c exanples of employees and
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Hearing - October 27,2022 L2
companies workingr in the Eolar industry in ldaho. Our
company has 103 full-tine W-2 enployees all working in
EoLar; 77 fuII-t,ime W-2 employees right here in
Pocatello. These jobs are in operations,
installatione, eleetrical, permitting, engineering,
design, warehousing, customer Eervice, and ao on. We
have wages that range from $14 per hour starting to
$48 per hour with an average wage of L9.57 per hour,
very good health and dental ineurance, very good paid
vacation progrrams, annual bonuEeE on top of wages.
And in addition to our orrr eurpJ.oyees, there
iE dozenE, Lf not hundredE of employees with other
companies aIEo part of Big Dogrs Big Dog Solarrs
ecosyeten, Euch as Local electrical diEt,ributors,
local battery distributorE, Iocal parts distributors,
Iocal Eolar equipment specific distributors, Iocal
roofing contsractors, Local mechanic shops, local auto
dealerg, and I could go on wit,h that liet .
f I m not Eure of the total nr:mber of solar
inet,aLlation fulfitLurent companies based in ldaho, but
the nu.nber of good quality jobs in the industry and
the state ie definitely in the thousands. And I would
just Eay that without a doubt a healthy renewable
energy sector in Idaho iE great for Idahots work and
economy and that I e all and I wouLd aIEo agree with
Hearing - October 27,2022 13
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everything Mr. Larkin said.
So thank you for your time.
COMMISSIONER ANDERSON: Thank yorr, very mueh.
ldS . NORDSTROM: Excuge me .
COMMISSIONER A}iIDERSON: ThanK YOU, Mr. LArKiN,
for being Eo cLear then people can
YeE, ME. NordEtrom.
US. NORDSTROM: I just want to confir:rr the nasre
of ttre company wiuh wtrich he is employed. Is ttrat Big
Dog Solar or different conpany?
![R. BARROTT: Big Dog Solar.
COMMISSIONER ANDERSON: They are not int,ervenclrs,
though.
US. NORDSTROM: Correct.
COMMISSIONER AIiIDERSON: Thank you for asking.
Nexts we have Shannon AnsJ.ey.
SIIAT{NON ANSLEY,
firet duly Eyrorn to telL ttre truth relating to said
cauge, teEtsified as follows:
MS. ANSLEY: Shannon AnEley. The last, name iE
A-N- S.L-8.Y.
COMMISSIONER AIIDERSON :
Idatro Power.
And you are a cuEtomer of
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Hearing - October 27,2022 L4
MS. AIISIJEY: Yes.
COMMISSIONER AIiIDERSON: Please give uE your
testimony.
MS. AITSLEY: Okay. Thank you. And thank you for
coming to Pocatello. I really appreciate it.
I do not yet, trave solar panels on the roof
of my house, but I hope tso in the near future. I feel
it is one of tshe actsions that private cit,izens can do
to help fight ttre effectE of cLimate change on our
pJ.anet. While I appreciate that Idaho Power has
cormitted to 100 percent clean energy by 2045,
reducing their purchase price of renewabl-e energry
generated by residential Eolar iE unacceptable.
If Idaho Power devalueE power generatsed by
non-utility solar installationE, then the solar
industry in the Idaho Power Eervice area wiII be
dest,royed. The propoeed Idaho Power price Etructure
thats is disingenuously support,ed in the value of
distributed energry resources study or the voter'B
study ie desigrned to deter the competitive threat of
Eolar ener!ry systems and force Idaho consurners to
exclusively purchase eLectricity from the ut,ility.
Perhaps federaL antitruEt lawE and recent
court precedence could be used to prevent this imsroral
and unet,hicaL business practice. Perhaps Idaho
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Hearing - October 27,2022 15
citizenE wtro pride themselvee on independence, ehoice,
self-reliance will realize that big industsry iE once
again profiting on the backs of the littIe guy.
I want to have a choice to put soLar on my
home in a way that doee not double the payback period
for the equipment and inEtallation. I do not want to
be penalized by the regional utility because I decide
to help fight climate change.
There are other exanples in the United
States for how utilitieE and non-utility generatorE of
solar power can work togettrer in a manner that iE
mutually benef icial. Ttre stsate of Hawaii smart export
progran is one that shouLd be become a model for all
utilitieE in the U.S.
I would like for Idaho Power to go back t,o
ttre drawing board, start over and propose another
EtrategEf to work together with the Eolar generators.
And on my way home hearing Senator Mike
Crapo I s campaigm promises, he EayE, t'I want f or
IdahoanE to have the opportunity to buiLd tsheir own
future, n and by accepting what Idaho Power hae
currently propoeed for pricing, I think that is in
definite conflict, with what Senator Crapo would want
done for ldaho citizenE.
Thank you.
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Hearing - October 27,2022 15
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COIIMISSIONER AIIDERSON: Ttrank you for your
testimony.
Brian Wade. I hope I got that right.
donrt read very weII.
MR. WADA: Wada.
COMMTSSIONER ATiIDERSON: Sorrlr.
BRIA}I WADA,
first duly sworn to teII the truth relating to Eaid
cauge, teEtified as foIIowE:
MR. WADA: So I an here representing oh, yes.
COMMISSIONER ANDERSON: NAME and speJ.I your Iast.
MR. WADA: Bryan Wada, W-A-D-A, Pingree, Idaho,
and, y€a, I am aldaho Power custourer.
COMMISSIONER AIiIDERSON: TIranK you.
MR. WADA: AIl right. So I won|t need ttre fuII
three minutee even, but aE representing a mid to large
sized family farrr, we use a lot of power and eurrently
I do not have any Eo1ar installations on our
propert,ies or part of our company.
Corrrrissioners, ?s you work with Idaho Power,
I would just encouraSre you to raiEe or even remove the
nets metering cap. Companies like mine we would
Like to be part of the movement towardE renewable
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energy. We are just a l.ittle too big right now. We
would Like to play in that Epace and to be part of the
movement.
COMMISSIONER AIiIDERSON: Thank you very much for
your tsestimorry.
TriEea Morain.
TRISSA MORAIN,
first duJ.y Eworn to tell the truth relating to eaid
cause, teEtified as foLlowE:
MS. MORAINs My narle is Trisea. The last narre iE
Morain, M-O-R-A-I-N. I rm an Idaho Power customer. I
just had a coupJ.e of bullet points. I actually work
with a eolar company here locally, and Itve been
through the last 13 years of Idaho Power and the
ctranges that they atteurpted to make througtrout, ttre
years, and I do currently have solar on my house aE
weII.
My main goal is if this is conEidered
through the PUC that we consider the cuEtomers that
are already in contraet, the cuEtomerE that are
al.ready looking at Eolar and have been in a hiatus
eince 2OL9 when we basically got, a vea^]z brief
amlouncements from Idaho Power that grandfathering
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Hearing - October 27,2022 18
would only be allowed for two weeke, and you had to
get your application in.
On my aspect being involved with a eolar
company and being an Idaho Power cuEtomer, it waE kind
of a lit,t1e bit of a shock to be only aLlowed a
two-week allowance to coneider soLar and make a
decision on soLar and then move forrrard with it.
I believe in that, inetsance they have left uE
and all Idatro Power cuEtomers in a complete hiatuE
where we dontt know where we can go forward Eorry.
I rm not a very good public speaker if we can go
forward with EoLar or not go forward with eolar and
then thoEe of us wtro are making ttre deciEion to go
for-ward witsh Eolar and trave sigmed contractg donrt
know what we are getting into now.
So that's kind of my testimony there. I
also manage I manage a lot of StruyE here and thiE
realLy does impact ua. It iutpacts my company. It
impaets aII the S7uyE that do work for uE.
And thatrE all I trave.
COMMISSIONER ANDERSON: Thank you, TriEEa, for
your testimony. And you did just fine. Don'ts be tsoo
critical of yourEeLf.
Next we have Adan Young.
ADAI{ YOI'NG,
Hearing - October 27,2022 19
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first duly Eworn to teII ttre truth relating to said
eause, testified as follows:
COMMISSIONER ANDERSON: Please give us your natrte,
spe1l your last and whettrer you are a cuEtsomer.
MR. YOT NG: Adasr Young, Y-O-U-N-G, and, y€a, I rm
an fdatro Power custoner.
So firEt off, I do want to thank you, as
ottrerE have done , for couring here tonight and for
holding theEe hearinge. I rm appreciative of ttre
opportunity to testify.
So I want to teetify tonight because I donrt
think that the VODERT E study adequatsely addreEEeE the
ways in which the eligibility cape the delays in
program implementation, and tying the export credit
rate to IRP foreeasts harn irrigators.
AE I said, my nane ie Adan Young. I far:ur
with my parents and with ny brotherrE fanily in
Binghan County. We farur about 3,000 acreE of wheat,
barley, and alfalfa. 100 percent of our ground is
groundwater irrigated, and electricity is one of our
largest expenE ea.
In 2OL9r rtr€ investigated in 2OO-kilowatts
Eolar projectsE to help offset theEe irrigat,ion costs.
One of, these projects was located in a dry pivot
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Hearing - October 27,2022 20
corner, which wouLd have been ideal to houEe a much
larger project had we not, been arbitrarily conetrained
by the 100-kilowatt cap.
Ironically, our eecond project, which waE
congtructsed on adjacent land and on the Eame feeder
Line required additional infraEtructure on ldaho
Power t E part,. We were required t,o dry up good crop
land to install the second site. In other wordE, the
100-kitowatt cap resulted in a lose-lose Eituation
both for our farur and for ldaho Power. The reality is
that the l0O-kitowatt eap is redundant and
unneceasary.
The net billing Etructure proposed in ttre
VODER study includes a built-in disincentive for me to
overgize a soLar project, that, ie I wotlrt get paid for
my nets exports, ratsher they represent a credit that I
can use t,o offset my consunption bill. So if ny
syetem is deeigned to produce more than I consutrIe,
ttren that just beeomeE wasted capacity to mei ao there
is my limit,.
And really the Etuff deals perfectly with my
goals aE irrigator. Irm not a PURPA facility. Irm an
irrigator looking to uee solar to hedge my eleetrieal
coEts.
So my first requests to the comrrission
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therefore is to please eLininate the outdated
lOO-kilowatt cap and please do so aE Boon aE possible.
DIy Eeeond request is that, the corunission
hold Idaho Power - to their oum proposal that all
changes to net metering be implenented by ilune 2023.
Every month thiE gets delayed and kicked down the road
repreeents harur to our operation.
Since installing our initial systems, our
farm has wanted to evaluate the option to invest in
more Eolar, but we have been unable to do Eo in the
current state liurbo the pro![ram findE itEelf in.
Turo years I test,if ied in Docket IPC-E- 20-26
and asked the cortrriEEion to put Eome kind of Eide
boardE or interim e:<port, rate in place Eo the
irrigat,ors could do the basic financiaL analysis
needed to consider furttrer investment. Many other
farmerE aEked for the sane thing. The commission
responds that,, "W€ find that the claimed chilling
effect on new customer participation in ScheduLe 84
during the interim is unpersuasive. "
$IeII, I'm here to telL you right rrow that
for our far:zr that chilling effect is absoLutely real
and it has been for every farmer with whom I I ve
spoken.
In the meantime, wetve experienced power
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eoEt adjustments this year amounting to 15 to 20
percent of our total irrigation power bills. I{e and
in fact the entire state of Idaho have aLeo missed out
on bringing federal relief fundE into our state while
waiting for theee iEsues to be resolved.
Pleaee ensure that all changes to net
metering are implemented by June 2023 Eo that,
irrigators and other consurlere can have the option to
inveEt in EoLar and take advantage of federal grant
money by fatl of 2023.
And then laetly, there iE discuEEion in the
VODER study regarding tradeoffE between accuracy and
etability in t,he export credit rate. Specifically the
study discuEEeE the relatiwe merits of Idaho Power's
proj ected IRP rate or a rate tsied to a market index
like the interna.tional continental exchange mid-C or
the ELAP price exeuse me int,ercontinental
exchange mid-C or the ELAP priee.
In my opinion using the IRP aE an estimate
for voided energry costs is not adequately accurate.
Ttre trade off in terrr of aceuracy far outweighs the
purported stability provided by thiE method. And I
think it I E important here to remember why irrigatore
are investing in solar and what, stability really means
in that, context.
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$Ie are trying to hedge our eleet,rieal costs.
Uncoupling the ECR for market rates and thus what we
uLtimately pay f or consrrnption inj ects uncertaintsy,
not stability into our effortE to inplement a
succesEful edge.
So when rising market rates drive our coEts
up, we should expect the ECR to increase aE welI, and
of course the corollary iE also true. My third
request then is that urarket prices and not IRP
eEtimates be uEed to calculate avoided energry coEtE.
In gull, my three requests are, one, that the
l0O-kilowatt c?pr which iE harmful and redundant, be
eliminated aE Eoon ar possible; two, that all changes
to net metsering become effective by r.fune 2O23i and,
tstrree, that market pricee and not, IRP eEtinateE be
uEed to calculated avoided energry coEts.
There are other queetions and concarns I
trave with the VODER study, which by the way, I have
read page for page. I Lrave combed through it, but
whictr are outEide the acope of this Ehort testimony,
including concerne about how Idaho Power defines and
calculates transmiEEion and diEtribution to forurula
valueE, discuEsions on valuing ECRE on a time variant
basis, which would put them out of Elmc with st,atie
consumption ratee and why ttre stsudies hl4rothet,ieal
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figures value on peak energy at a lower rate than
of f -peak energry .
Pleaee keep us in ttre J.oop as these itemE
are diseusEed and deciEions are made. So with that,
thank you for your time, and do you trave any questionE
for me?
COMMISSIONER AIiIDERSON: Ttrank you very much,
Adasr.
Ken Eorry. I'm not doing very weII with
nallleEl.
MR. PFAIINENSTIEL : It ' e Kenneth Pf annenstiel .
COMMISSIONER AI{DERSON: Thank you.
KENNETH PFA}iINENSTIEIJ,
first, duJ.y Eworn to teLL the truth relating to said
cauge, testified aa followE:
COMMISSIONER ANDERSON: Thank you very much.
P1ease give your rrame and spell your IaEt ncrme.
MR. PFAIIIIENSTIEL: Ken Pfannenstiel,
P-F-A-N-N-E-N-S-T-I-E-t, and I arl an Idaho Power
cugtomer as weLL.
COMMISSIONER AIIDERSON: Ttrank you, please give ug
your testimony.
MR. PFAIINENSTIEL : I would j ust like to point out
Hearing - October 27,2022 25
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ttrat the study that f daho Power conducted t,hat they
were basically told to conduct after the laet docket
that raiEed theee Eane concerns didn I t give a fair
Iook at any of the benefitE that solar has to for
people inst,alling rooftop solar and the benefit that,
it does. The Croesborder I s I believe it, wae
CrosEborder that did tshe counter study to it more
accurately defined what Eo1ar doeE for the grid and
ttre cuEtomerE tshat install it. So f dontts think that
they did a full or a complet,e study. They didnrt,
give both Eides of the story. And that is aLL.
COIIMISSIONER ANDERSON: Thank you, Kenneth , for
your t,estimony. I appreciate it. That waE a hard
last nane t,oo.
Virginia ilones.
VIRGINIA ITONES,
f iret duJ.y Eworn to tell the tsruth re}ating tso eaid
cauge, tseEtified as follows:
MS. iIONES: Virginia rJones. iI-O-N-E-S. And what
else waE I supposed to say?
COMMISSIONER ANDERSON: Idaho Power custsomer?
MS. JONES: Oh, yos, I am an Idaho Power
customer, and Irm also a net metering cuEtomer.
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Hearing - October 27,2022 26
So when I moved to Pocatello a few yeare ago
and I was looking for a houEe, the one thing f waE
looking for waE a big south facing roof, and I found
it,. In fact, Dy house is only 1 degree off of due
south. And so I a.ur I had soLar panels inst,aLl-ed
about three years ago and at ttrat time I wae thinking
that I would be, you know, continuing tso receive a
very fair price for the electricity that I wae
generatirg, which I and at thiE point I really only
have about 1 month in wtrictr I don' t have enough energy
that I have to pay an extra biLl.
And, you know, I contemplated how long it
was going to take me to pay ttrese things off and, you
know, thiE was my expectation at the time. And at
Eome point like, thie Eurnner when we were talking
about brown outs and that beeauEe of aLl the really
hot weather, I was realJ.y pleased to think that ny
houge waE producing elect,ricity at j ust the right time
for aII ttrese things. iluEt when everybody had their
air condit,ioners going, I was producing some
electricity for it and that electricity was being ueed
IocaIIy and it waE being, you know, not carried over
huge lines and everything. So, you know, those are
aome of ttre benefit,e of hawing Eolar power in houEes.
BecauEe my house trappens to be on a fairl.y
Hearing - October 27,2022 27
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busy Etreet in a neighbortrood where people would be
considering Eolar power, I lve got a lot of people
asking me about my solar panels and how they are
paying of f and, you know, Le this somettring they
should do. And in the paet I said, rrYeah. Yeah. It
reaIly doeEn't take all that long to pay it off.
This is a great idea.n I donrt think I can do that if
we are looking at the kinds of prices that we are
looking in the proposed power charges.
And Eo I know ttrere are a lot, of people out
there who are really interested, who really want t,o be
able to put solar panels in, and we need to eneourage
not, discourage thoEe people. So that I E my
CoMMISSIONER AIiTDERSON: Thank you, Virginia.
Liarra Litzinger.
I,IANA I,ITZINGER,
firEt duly sworn to teII ttre truth relating to said
cauge, testified aE followE:
COMMISSfONER AIiIDERSON: Thank you. PleaEe give
un your testimony.
MS. LITZINGER: But I will teLL you aE f was
sitting, waitingt, and pondering I thought, I'Itltlats would
ttrey do if I said no. I will not give honest25
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testimony? " YeE, f will give honeet t,estimony.
COMMISSIONER AIiIDERSON: We would put a different,
weight on it.
MS. LITZINGER: There we go.
COMMISSIONER ANDERSON: And please give us your
name and spell your laet narle.
MS. LITZINGER: Liana Lit,zinger, L-I-A-N-A. tast
nElne is L- I -T- Z-S- I -N-G-E-R, and I 'm an Idaho Power
cuEtomer and a resident of Pocatello.
COMMISSIONER AIIDERSON: Thank you.
MS . LTITZINGER: Okay. So I guees I basically
have a two bullet point, and theEe things have al.ready
been mentioned, but I rm going to mention them
nonetheless.
So in looking at Idaho Powerrs study, I saw
that the reimburEement rate that they ment,ioned for
net metering iE Eomewhere between 3 and 4 cents, a
signifieants anount lower than what currently is being
paid for folks who have soLar and that concerns me.
My other eoncern iE and, again, thiE haE
been mentioned before is that, 100-kilowatt cap.
I rm thilrrking back to Augusts 15 when President Kevin
Satterlee mentsioned that Idatro Statse University
that he wanted Idaho Statse University to head down a
suEtainability road and t,o me as a graduate from ldaho
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State UniverEity and a reEident of Pocatello, I E ot
EtriwerE, becaute I thought, ttWow, finally finally,
you know, we are going to or he iE going to head
down this road, rr and I was so pleased by that.
So here are my concerne about ttroEe two
things. Is that the cepr the l0O-kiLowatt c?pr aE
well aE that reimbursement rate wiLL real.ly act, aE a
diEincentive. As individuaLE, we may chooge to put
eolar on our homee for the good of order, to reduce
our carbon footprint and becauee it is the right thing
to do. But if we are talking about larger entities
and I appreciatsed the input by a couple of farmerE
thaE, have previously spoken. You know, I it's hard
for me to conceive of, trOkay. What would 100
kilowattE do? rr And I didn I t realize that a f arming
or ueJ.ng Eolar panele in order for purrp irrigation is
impacted by that nr:mber aIso. But I thought, rrOkay.
What would that do to ISU! s you know, maybe
conmitment to move for'ward with aome solar and aome
other suEtainability practices?rr
So while individuals uray silr lrOkay. I tm
going to do it for the good of the order or the good
of nature, rr 60 on and so fortsh, f think that entities ,
buEinesses, inst,itutionE dont t gets to pJ.ay around with
Etuff like that because they are being operated
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ttrrough tax dollars or purchasing you know, people
purchasing their goods, ttrey are more they are more
actsabIe, and they have to sdy, t rrThiE is a f iscally
responsible decision that we are making.tr And if the
reimburgement rate iE Eo low, if ttre asrount of
kiLowat,tE that ean be placed is kept at 100 kilowattE,
then that iE a huge disincentive for entities that are
Iarger than just individual houEehoLds.
Let ne Eee. Repalarent, period and you
heard ME. iloneE talk about that. Even when
individualE puu Eolar on their homes, t,hey are looking
at that repalznent period and institsutionE are going tso
have to take a look at that even Lrarder, and if that
repayment period gets extended oute foll know, if we go
from, what, 10 to L4 centE net metering down to 3 to 4
centE, that I E going to t,imes that reimburgement period
or repalmrent period out three and four fold.
So that t s what I wanted to share.
COMMISSIONER AIiIDERSON: Thank yorl, Liana, very
much for your testimony.
Larry Ford. Lrarry, I think I got that one
right.
MR. FORD: Yeah. Do you want my legal name or is
that Eufficient.
COMMISSIONER AIiIDERSON: WeII, let me Ewear you in
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31Hearing - October 27,2022
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firet.
MR. FORD: Okay.
I.ASIRENCE FORf,',
firEt duly Eyrorn to telI ttre trut,h relating to said
cauge, testified aE follows:
COMMISSIONER AIiIDERSON: Thank you. Probably your
legal name I would reeognize.
MR. FORD: Its t s Lrawrence, with a ttw, rt Ford, like
ttre car.
COMMISSIONER ATiIDERSON: Thank you, very muctr.
IrfR. FORD : Okay.
COMMfSSIONER AIiIDERSON: And you are an Idaho
Power customer; correct.
MR. FORD: Yes, I'm an Idaho Power customer. f
have been for many yeare. ReEident of Chubbuck.
COMMISSIONER ANDERSON: Okay.
MR. FORD: Okay. I an 75 years oId now. Three
years ago I decided to install solar on my houEe. f
looked at the coEt, the estimated time of repayrtent,
and there iE a grood likelihood that it will not be
plus on my Eide during my Lifetime, buts it was t,he
right thing tso do so we went ahead with it.
AE I underEt,and it, I Erm grandf athered in Eo
Hearing - October 27,2022 32
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this proposal on net metering wontt affect me. My
system was in and aII that before it happened.
But aE I Eaid, it was the right thing to do.
Now, excuge me a Eecond. Illhen I look at what Idaho
Powerrg proposing, I think it,s just wrong headed and
disingenuouE . At my Bg€, my menory is not what it was
once, but my recolleetion is it waE not that many
years ago that they came to PUC with a propoeal for a
differentiated rate Etructure where they could charge
more for electricity deLivered during the daytime in
the Eumler when the demand was trigh, and that I E
exactly when Eolar iE delivering the noEt, benefit to
them.
They are getting Eo1ar power from the in
ttre Eumertime they did not pay a dime to conetruct
it, a dime to buy it, a dirre to f inance it. They are
getting the benefit of thiE additional generation with
essentially no coEt to ttrem, and they are claiming
that it,rE a net drag on them, and I just don't believe
ir.
Anyway, it will real-Iy discourage new people
from trying to get into soLar if thiE proposal goes
through and, again, we should be looking at the
future, even if it doesntt directly benefit uE. When
I look ats my kids, Dy grandkids, I want a better world25
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for them and thatrs why I put it in.
So please give it careful consideratsion and
don t t kilt what could be a solution to a lot of our
probleme. Thank you.
COMMISSfONER AIiIDERSON: Thank you for your
testimorry, Irarry.
Roseurary Snith.
MS. SMITH: HL.
ROSEIIfARY SIITITH,
firEt duly Eworn to tell ttre truth relatingr to said
cauge, teetified ae followe:
COMMISSIONER ANDERSON: Thank you. PleaEe give
uE your nane.
MS. SMITH: Rosesrary Smittr. S-M-I-T-II, Last
nane. Irm a Pocatello reEident. I em an Idaho Power
euetomer, and I put Eolar on my rooftop about three
yeare ago during the solar I tshink it waE three
years ago during the Solarize Pocatello movement
that we had. It wae very Euccessful. There was a lot
of excitement around trying to encourage Idaho Power
cuetsomers in fact aLL ttre citizene of ldaho to put
rooftop solar on becauEe it would be a way to help
Idaho Power to meets itE goal of 2045 of being
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having their power being essential.J-y more carbon
neutsral, iE the way I look at its, and that we were
being encouraged to be part of a solutsion to help
Idaho Power meet their goals.
So me and my fanily we put up t,enE of
thouEandE of dollars of our own hard earned money to
puts rooftop so1ar, and we did it becauae we thought it,
would be better in the future to be able to have more
of a distributed syetem of electricaL generation. And
it cost uE a lot of money to do t,hat,. And in return,
we are now pretty mueh on the net metering systeur and
it I s been benef icial. It wiII t,ake ud quit,e a few
year6 more to break ewen from our initial inwestments.
But it I think tshat it the the
importance of that is ttrat the citizenE and the Idaho
Power customerg, I think you could rally theur to put
their own hard earned money into helping fdaho Power
buitd the infraEtructure that they need in order to
meet t,heir goal.s of having the ener!try sources be more
renewabLe sourceg.
This proposed rate clrange to greatly reduce
the credit ener!ry creditsr }rou Ehould vote no on if
you think that the cust,omers themEelveE Ehould have a
Eay in being able to prourote Idaho Power I s own goals
own Etated goal.s of using more renewabLes and
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having more rooftop Eo1ar. So ittE Eort of like Idaho
Power wantE one thing. They rally their customerE to
go on and then they Ewitch the ru1eE.
And now there iE a lot of people outs there
Irve reEonated with people a lot of my neighbors
are, like, ttOh, I want Eolar now. I want Eo1ar now. tr
A lot of people want it, but when you change the
rateE, they people eanrt afford that right now.
Thatrs, like, tshousands and thousandE of dollare to
put in a Eorrel eystem. And if thoee rateE have sueh
a long payback time, the rates go down, they wilL
never invest in tt and ttren eEsentially Idaho Power
wonrt be able to meet itrE goa1s. So itre
self-defeating, I feel.
I mean, somebody used the word disingenuous.
They say have these goa1s. They want uE to put you
know, help out with the gloaLs. $Ie I lL put up our hard
earned money to help them meet the goals and then they
do the switcheroo and so now the next group of people
canrt join in.
I really alEo appreciated Larry Ford'E
connentg that trItve already done it. Irm
grandfathered in, and Irm Etanding here t,onight aE a
crrstomer an Idaho Power customer who iE
grandfathered in. Irm Etanding here for aII the other
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Hearing - October 27,2022 36
people in PocateLLo, all the young people in
Pocatello, all the new Lromeowners in Pocate1lo, all
the other people in thie region who would like to put
Eolar on their rooftop, to have not only energry
independence but to contsribute to offeetting the
terribLe effectE of climate change from burning foesil
fue1E. " IrIe need to move away f rom burning fossil
fuels.
One of the best waye to do it and the ways
that citizene are willing to spend their own good
money to do it is with rooftop eoLar and the changes
in the rateE really, really, really discourage it.
Because LromeownerEi, just like farmers, nake a ].ot of
economic decisions about wtrat ttrey are going to do.
And if there iE a way that their money that can go
towards something that has a climate benefit, they
will put it there. If they canrt do it you know,
it r s totally diEcouraging people fron doing what, they
feel ie right thing.
So I urge you to vote no on the rate change,
and I also hope that aomeone more knowledgeable than
me teEtifies about the counter study that Ehowed that
ttrere were some flaws in many of the assurrptions of
strowing t,hat the Eomehow ttre Eolar roof top
roof top solar is a drain on ttre system. Thank you.
Hearing - October 27,2022 37
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COMMISSIONER AIiIDERSON: Ttrank you for your
testimony.
Hayden HarriE.
IIAYDEN IIARRIS,
first duJ.y Eworn to tseLl the truth reJ.ating to Eaid
cauge, tseEtified aa followE:
CODIMISSIONER AIiIDERSON: Ttrank you. PLeaee give
ua your naae, epell your laet, and whether or not
yourre an Idaho Power cuEtomer.
MR. IIARRIS: Hayden HarriE, H-A-R-R-I-S, and I rm
actually not an Idaho Power customer, but I an working
for a Eolar company in Idaho FaIIE and out of the L2O
solar projects I have taken part of, about 53 percent
of my customer base have been on Idaho Power.
frd like to kind of Etart with, as lrve been
diving into thie whole net metering change
application, I canrt say frm the moEt studied orr or
I tm ttre moEt current on al]. the EtudieE ttrat trawe been
done, but what I am very current on iE sort of a macro
economic scale of what, we are looking at here.
AE it Etands right now, your average Idahoan
wtr,o pays the most in electricity is tl4rically those
who iE under the median income. Meaning that tshe25
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Hearing - October 27, 2022 38
person tshat Eeeks to benefit the moEt from eolar is
thoEe who are lower income are those who are going to
be further impoveriEhed by a deciEion such aE thie.
Wtrats I mean by that, is just tshiE year alone
wlren you go and compare what ttre average coet of
electricity on Idaho Power t s grid last year iE to this
year, this iE ineluding all the power adjustment feeE
that are Labeled on each billr w€ are looking at about
a 9 percent Lncrease, going from low 11 centE per
kilowatt hour up to mid-12 centE per kilowatt hour.
That being Eaid, when you take someone who
iE barely getting by on a montstr-to-monttr basiE my
in-IawE are actually a perfect exampJ.e of this. They
have about a $300 power biII. Wtren you increase that
from 300 to whatrs around a 10 percent, it raisee it
to $330, and then aa we enter this new ener!ry criEis
of shutting down over 100 megawatts of coal power
plants across the nation, the rate by which it ie
going to go up every year is a littLe bit
unpredictable, to Eay the least.
Adding to thatr 1rou take Eomeone in this
Eituation and you continue to add onto the biLl every
month because at the end of day, Idaho Power hae
done a great serwice for all itE reEident of keeping a
continuous power flow, but they are at the end of the
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Hearing - October 27,2022 39
d.y, a businees to retain profit and pay their
employees and do everything ttrat is neceeaary in that
manner. It is not the residents fault that power
costs have to go up, however it is their problem.
It I E their probJ.em that they are now having
to chooEe between getting a nice or they have to
choose between getting a fuLl meal and paying ttreir
power, we1l, ?t the end of the day we have to make the
Eacrifice to pay the power aE it continues to go up.
Looking at it from a larger scaLe of things,
aE I lve been doing research into what iE being coined
the new energry criEiE, not just on our Eca1e but on a
globa1 scalee'w€ are looking at, aE if thie change
is made in the way Idaho Power wante it to be, it wilL
completely dissuade anyone from going soLar. And I
being one of the leading salesperEons at PriEm So1ar
can affirm that aE intereEt rates Eit right now, they
are on the rise, it ! s already become just with
interest rates aLone, it's becoming not aE glorious an
opportunity as it was before. This will kiII Idaho
Eo1ar. I donrt, have a doubt about that in my mind.
You wiII have Eome people who really want to
go Eolar and they wiLl, but if we in aII intente and
purposes eliminate or dissuade if rdaho Power takes
an active duty disEuading people, they will succeed.
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No one will go Eo1ar anynore. What we will be subject
to iE, as we enter thiE further crisiE of decreasingl
decreasing supply on a national level but
increasing demand aa again on a natsional level, w€ are
seeking to push for electric vetricles and everything
else that or any other nechanism that putss preesure
on the grid, tshe only real option Idaho Power haE to
do iE to raiEe their prices. Because t,hey themselves
are likety going to have to start paying more tso
acquire any kilowatt hours that, they ttremselves do not
produce. Natural.J.y, aE any busineEE doeE, it has to
be rolled down to the conau$er.
Right now Eolar is the onJ.y way that a
customer can g'uarantee wtrats their power bilt ie going
to be. This change unfortunately would take away that
guarantee. Something that so many retired people in
our comrrunity have invested into for ttre sake of
keeping their month to month costs low enough that
they can Eurvive on Soeial Security. They can gurvive
on their fixed income, Eomething they planned for.
I really ask you guys t,o consider not just
how thiE affects or whether the study was right or
wrong or anything of that sorts, but how this actually
affects the average person who is already couuritted to
Eo1ar and what benefit we are losing in tshe what
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benefj.t we are J.osing in the future for thoee who
really, really need a break who really need a break
wlren it comes to a monthly cost, f ixing one of their
billE one of the bills that everything ie going up.
Thank you.
CO!ilMISSIONER ANDERSON: Thank you for your
testimony.
Ben Heffron.
BEN HEFFRON,
first duly Eworn to tell ttre truth relating to Eaid
cause, testified as follows:
COMMISSIONER AIIDERSON: Th.ank you.
MR. HEFFRONs My na.rre is Ben Hef fron,
H-E-F-F-R-O-N. Irm not an Idaho Power customer, but I
am here representing Eeveral.
I firet wants to Eay thank you to everybody
here tonight. The moEt glaring issue that I Eee
before uB today ie that thiE process haE taken far too
long. I want to echo Mr. Youngrs EentimentE from
before and ask ttrat ldaho Power be held to their
deciEion time f rane for ilune.
In 2OL9 when this began, I was able tso
attend the Pub1ic Utilities ComriEsion hearing in
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Hearing - October 27,2022 42
BoiEe. At that hearing there was Epace for 25O people
in that room. There were over 800 of uE there.
Because this haE laeted aE long aE it has, this
proceEs haE gone on aE long aE it has, the Idaho Power
cugtomers have been fatigued. We all have process
f atigrre. We just want it, to be over. That doeEn t t
mean that, we are willing to accepts any outcome, but we
want to Eee what the outcone is so we can srake real
plans going forward. If you look around thiE room,
ttrere are less 50 people here today. That Ehould Ehow
you and illuEtrate the point Irm trying to make.
Iilhen it comes to the study itEelf , I wouLd
aLEo like to ectro the words of Mr. Pf annenEtiel and
Mr. Barrott. The CroEsborderIE independent, study
shows tshat the actuaL avoided eoEt or the
independent study shows that inEt,ead of the 3 .8 centE
ttrat Idaho Power study recorurendE that we be
compensated for, it Ehould actuaLLy be 18.3 cents.
ItrE a phenomenal study. It Ehou1d abEolutely be
t,aken into account when we consider what it iE that
Idaho is going to do.
AE arr Idaho industryr w€ are experiencing
exponential growth. Idaho Power has not been able to
maint,ain their growth and renewal efforts and reducing
the amount that, they compensate for rooftop solar will
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Hearing - October 27,2022 43
put additional etrain on ttre Idaho Power grid. r.7ust
IaEt Eurrurer they were announcing potential rolling
blackoutE in the Blackfoot area similar to thoee 6een
in California because they werenr t able to keep up
with ttre production needed.
The micro grid setup, which is what rooftop
solar actually Le, is a bunch of micro grids, it helps
reLieve the Etrain on the Idaho Power grid. Redueing
the compensation for that rooftop Eolar, decreages the
likelihood that people are going to be doing thiE and
offsetting the demand on the grid that is going to
foree or could force rolling blackouts to some of our
cuEtomerE.
ThiE again, ectroing Mr. Barrott ! E worde .
I also work for a local EoLar compatry. We have over
20 fuLJ. - time eurployees in the Idaho FaIIE region
spanning everything from eLectrical to desigrn, and the
wageE that we pay in your corurunity are irreplaceable.
This iE one of the faEteEt growing industries Ln the
U.S. , and this ctrange to the a.mount thats would be
compensated that Idaho Power iE proposing that we
compensate would have draEtic long-Iasting effectE on
ttre ability for Idaho to be able to compensate ite
customerE fdaho Power to be able to compeneate it,s
cuEtomers appropriately.
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Hearing - October 27,2022 44
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Thank you.
COMMISSIONER AIiIDERSON: Thank you for your
testimony.
Mike EngJ.e.
MIKE ENGIJE,
first duly sworn to teLl ttre truth relating to said
cauge, teEtified as follows:
COMMISSIONER ANDERSON: Thank you.
MR. ENGtEs My name iE Mike Eng1e, E-N-G-L-E, and
I arrl an Idatro Power custsoner.
I want to Etart by ttranking the comnieEion
for eEtablishing theEe publie trearinge and
specifically coming to Pocatello to give Idahoans in
SoutheaEt Idaho an opportunity to give their input, on
the Idaho Power VODER study. It is greatly
appreciated, and I personally think it, I e fantaetic
that you are here. Thank you.
Tonight I'm here to give remarks on behalf
of the Portsneuf ReEouree Council. AE I Eaid earlier,
my n€rme is Mike Engle and I alr the chair of ttre
Portneuf ReEource Council. IILL give a littIe brief
background.
PRC iE a nonprofit organization that
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Hearing - October 27,2022 45
promotes clean energry and clean water in SoutheaEt
Idaho. PRC is a local chapter of the Western
Organization of Reeource Council I e (WORC) . WORC haE
more than 18, 000 memberE , 37 ch,apters acrogE 7 wegtsern
Rocky Mountain states. PRC has about 50 membere but
aIEo traE more ttran 300 cLean ener!ry supporters in
Southeast Idaho who fo1low PRC t s clean energtry
samFaigrrs. And one of thoEe clean energry canpaigms in
2OL9 was Solarize PocatelLo wtrere we helped more than
80 resident,ial eolar inEtallations happen in our
region.
But I I d also like to acknowledge and applaud
Idaho PowerrE coruriturent to 100 percent renewable
energry for 2045, and further we comend Idatro Power I e
plan to offer clean enerSry optione to cuEtomerg who
may not have the means or ability to add on-site clean
energry generation. And in general, we support the
concept of Idaho Power I E Clean Energy Your Way
program.
PRC plane to submit more detailed and
technical conunentg, but tonight f want to make a few
brief commentg about the VODER study and in contraEts
ttre Crossborder energy study that the Portneuf
Resource Couneil helped to fund.
Idahoans who want to inst,all soLar deEerwe
Hearing - October 27,2022 46
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to receive a fair and equitable rate for the access
energ'y exported to the grid, eimilarly Idaho Power
Ehou1d receive a fair and equitable asrount for that
power. Both studieE, the VODER study and the
CroEsborder energtry etudy clearly show there iE value
t,o excess diEtributed energry. The difference in theEe
EtudieE is in the detaiL used to arrive ats the aetuaL
values.
PRC believeE that ttre Idaho Power Etudies
base assurrptionE uEed o1d and/or flawed data and that
the CrosEborder study used more current data and
better baEe assu.urptions. As I mentioned, we plan to
submit ttre detailE of how aad why and written eosurent,E
before the November 4 deadline.
Natsionally there have been numeroua Etudies
of the value of diEtributed energiy reaources.
Governrnentsal organizationE, academia, and nonprof it
organizationE who conduct these studiee have found the
value of diEtributed energfy reaourcer to be at or everr
significantly above the retail rate. The CrosEborder
study, specific to Idaho and conducted by reputable
industry consultantE arrived at a Eimilar conclusion.
And, in f act , rr€ heard tonight the 15 or 18 eents
versus the more or leEE wholeEale rate that Idaho
Power VODER study has come up with.
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Hearing - October 27,2022 47
ThiE evening PRC wantE to encourage the PUC
staff and coruniEeionerE to take a hard look at the
datsa, the assr.urptions, and the methodologry of both
studies to find the best value tshat is fair, credible,
and equitable for aII part,ies.
It ie important that the assessed value be
as fair and accurate aE possible at this point in time
becauee the results of this study will Eet the stage
for the future of distributed energry resourcee in
Idaho.
And while not directed to be part of ttre
study, PRC believeE it ! s important to include the
economically quantifiabLe environnental benefitE.
Idatro Power acknowledges the impacts of climat,e change
in itE integrated resource plan and commits to elean
energfy as part of the Eolution to mitigate climatse
impacts in ldaho. ThiE iE a good reason to make Eure
theEe benefits are etudied here and are included in
the final analyeis.
Again, thank you for couring to Pocatello,
and we Look for'ward to your decision.
CoMMISSIONER ATiIDERSON: Thank you, Mike, for your
testimony.
MR. ENGITE : You are weLcome.
Cathy Kriloff.
Hearing - October 27,2022 48
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CATITT KRIIJOFF,
firEt duly Eworn to tseIl tshe truth relating to said
cauge, teEtified as follows:
COMMISSIONER ANDERSON: PIeaEe, give us your
name.
MS. KRILOFFs My name ie Catshy, with a e,
Kriloff, K-I-R-L-O-F-F.
COMMISSIONER AIiIDERSON: Arrd you are an Idaho
Power cuEtomer.
MS. KRILOFF: Yeg, w€ are an Idaho Power
crretsoner
COMMISSIONER ANDERSON: Ttrank you.
MS. KRILOFF 3 - - for 25 years.
So I agree wiuh Mike. r appreciate your
being here tonight and providing the opportunity to
eonment. Irm speaking in etrong support of
dist,ributed Eolar power being reimbursed at a 1 to 1
net, met,ering rate and for the removal of the
2S-kilowatt and lOO-kilowatt cap.
AE I Eaid, my trusband and I are 25-year
Idaho Power cugtomers, artic conservatorg and reducers
and ugers and recyclers. We need to be concerned
about climate change. We voluntarily contributed for
over 10 years to the Green Power program and during
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Hearing - October 27,2022 49
the Solarize Pocat,ello campaign organized by the
Department of Resource Council. We had I Eolar panels
instaLled on our rooftop.
As Larry stated, we aIEo did this J.argely
becauEe we felt it waE our way to contribute to moving
our stsate for-ward on renewable energJy, not because it
was economieally benef icial t,o uE particularly.
TheEe 8 panels were assessed to cover 100
percent of our average electricity and have largely
done Eo untsil the Ehift to work more from home during
COVID. But since our panels were inetalled in early
falL, lrre rarely get, back to zero. And thie year we
eagerly watched as it haE gotten close.
We appreciate and trave benefited from Idaho
Powerrs public eonaervation effortE, their tree
triuring and replacenent progreilr, and the
grandfathering of net metering for those ttrat
installed rooftop solar in 2OL9 or earlier.
Others have talked abouts thoEe who are not
here tonight, and I would like to mention in
particuLar the custodian on our floor, Phil1ip, who
spoke to me this last Eurmer about how he waE eagerJ.y
trying to figure out if he couLd inEtall EoLar panels
on his roof, but he was clearly doing the economic
calcuLatsions and highly doubtful about wtrether he
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would be able to do that,.
It I s aIEo cLear that to scale up the impact
of Eo1ar and other renewable enerstry aE rapidly ae
needE to happen to address the effects of the clinate
change that are already being felt, it muet be
affordable to all and economical-Iy advantsageous to the
cit,ies. We strongly support Idaho Power I E goal of 100
percent renewable energry by 2045. I applaud Idaho
State University!e announced pLans for a Eimilar goal,
and we are eneouraged by fTD I s move toward supporting
electrie vehicles and certainly anticipate for the
growth in that area wittrin and outEide the stat,e.
We believe an important component of
reaching thoEe goals is making reEidential Eolar cost,
effective by eontinuing to offer fair rate and
removing the caps of 25 kilowattE and 100 kilowatts
reEident,ial and agricuJ.tural and induet,rial setstings.
I found that earLier testirrony compelling from
about irrigation.
I believe this wil]. incentivize individualg,
businesg€rg, and institutions like Idaho State
University because instaLLation wilL be coEt effective
now and they wiII be abLe to plan a fixed for
eLectricity in the future.
Thank you.
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Hearing - October 27,2022 51
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COMMISSIONER AIIDERSON: Thank you for your
testimony.
Richard Garner.
RICIIARD G,A,R.}IER,
first duly Eworn to t,elL ttre truth relating to Eaid
cause, teEtified aE follows:
COMMfSSIONER A}{DERSON: Thank you.
MR. GARNER! My nane is Richard Garner,
G-A-R-N-E-R, and Irm an Idaho Power cuEtomer. I alEo
represent our farn, who iE also an ldaho Power
cuEtsomer. ThatrE WhiteEides Dairy. We are located in
the Minidoka area.
So T, Iike many people, are that have
spoken before would like to voice our support in
changing Eome of the things in the poJ.icy here. First
of all, the firEt tsopic would be the changring the eilze
of the solar syetems that are allowed to be put in
place.
We, like many people here, feel like it is
the right t,hing to do to trave solar systsens in here,
but at the salre timer EE a larger farur in our area, we
hawe an obligation to our eurployees to make sound
busineEe decisions. And on moEt of the far:rrE in our
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Hearing - October 27,2022 52
area, we don|t have EmaII enough weLlE to justify that
t,hat eize of a solar panel. If we were to only put in
L00 KW system, it would not generate enough
electricity to rurr our Eystem that we have.
Our there ie a convergion between
horsepower, which we uae t,o lift the water, and the
kilowattsE and the 100 kilowatt would give us about 133
trorsepower. On our particular f ar:m, we have motsorE
that run our we1ls ranging from 150, very Emall
inefficient punping Etations, out to 700 horsepower
purrping EtationE. And Eo when we get into those
eituations, the power grid iE built to support a 300,
400 horsepower motor, but then we are only allowed to
put a 100 KIII system in. We f ind we are st,iLl writing
Iarge checks to purchase ttre power.
And the other thing that wetve werwe felt
prohibits a little bit of people's desire to put in
t,hose eystems when they can only go up to 100 is not
just the solar powers, there iE aIEo infrastructure
that haE to be installed into each Etation that have
control system wiring to t,ie yourself back into the
paneling. And ro if you have to go and put these
smaller systems in, you are Etill expensing the Eame
amount for that infraEtructure, and Eo if you are
aLLowed to do it as a larger system, then it becomes
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more efficient and more conducive for people to want
to do that.
The other the other thing that we would
Iike to speak to iE not only the ELze, but with ttre
net metsering with the rate ctrange, the payback makee
it Eo much more diffieuLt t,o decide to want to put the
sys tem in . Under our current s i tuat ion , wi uh ttre
water shortages that we are experiencing in our area,
farmers are losing acres due to curtailmentE on water
and go when we lose acrea ttrat we can farsr, the
farmable acreg that are out there, the cost increase
on rent, and in this current economic situation that
we are it, our coete have skyrocketed on other things,
and Eo looking to solar power to help us to control
ttrat iE one thing that maybe gives us a little bit of
relief that we could, Like ottrer people have Etsated
before, Eet our power coste at a ratse that we can
budget for as opposed to aE everything elEe climbs,
t,tre power costss climb as weLl. But with tstre deereased
reimburgement for the power tLrat we are creating, it
makes that payback Eo that itrE just not a Enart
buEiness move due to putting systems in.
There is currently new lawE that bring in
f ederal fundE to help speci f ical.ly geared towards
farming to help do projects such as Eo1ar, but werve
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Eeen t,imeLinees is a very important part of that doing
that. In our area a Lot of eolar syetems Etarted to
go in three or four yearE aE o. Our particular company
was focusing on otsher projects at the tine and so then
aa we began to wisit with experts in that field of,
doeE that fit for uEi, they would Ehow uE a paybaek
Ecale, and if you had done it three years prior, it
wae a no brainer t,o put then in. And two years prior,
it made physical sense, and the current year, it ! E
naybe a break even. And then aE timeE go orr, these
incentives oftentimeE go away.
And just recently in the newE right now is
that ttre federaL gowernnent Lras passed a new bilL to
push money towardE renewable energry and specifically
towards farmere, buts it needs to be something that we
carr act on right now to be able to take advantage of
that because aE time drags orr, aE other people have
mentioned before mer w€ need to find a way to get this
these deciEions and these projects finalized and
done and not keeping pushing it down the road beeause
timeliness iE something that we have to keep in mind
in the businesE aspect of things.
And with that, I thank you for your time and
I close. Thank you.
COMMISSIONER AtrIDERSON: Thank you for your
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Hearing - October 27,2022 55
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testimony.
ilay and it Etarts with a trB.n.
MR. BRAIIE: Bratre.
CO!ilMISSIONER AIIDERSON: Brahe. Thank you. And I
Like your hats very much.
MR. BRAIIE : IIIeII and I I m not taking it of f .
{IAY BR.AIIE,
f irst duJ.y sworn to tell the tsruth relating tso said
cause, testified aE foIIowE:
COMMISSIONER ANDERSON: Ttrank you.
MR. BRAIIE: ThiE is kind of off the cuff . I
didrr I t know whether I was going to make remarke for a
couple of reaE ons.
COMMISSIONER A}iIDERSON: And pJ.eag€!, give us your
name and spe1J. ttre laEt name.
MR. BRAIIE: ilay Brahe, B-R-A-II-E. Irm a
Pocat,ello reEident.
COMMISSIONER ANDERSON: And a cugtomer of Idaho
Power.
IlR. BRAIIE: Arrd an ldatro Power CuEtomer.
COMMISSIONER AIIDERSON: Please give us your
testimony.
MR. BRAIIE: Thank you. Again, thanks for your
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Hearing - October 27,2022 55
time.
Instead of I thought the reason that I
would get behind the mic iE t,o let you know lrm we
are talking other people have been talking
hl4rot,heticals about people not participating in the
net metering progrra.n. Itm one of theEe real people
right, on the cusp. IJast weekend Monday I met with
a Eolar inEtaller repreeentat,ive t,o begin planning to
Eupport both Idatro Power t E goa1s, what I I m Eure is the
PUC!E goals, and our own personal goals regarding
soLar power and its benefitE.
If the rate change and then I found out
talking through a network of friendE that Idaho Power
iE considering reducing the rate to homeowners for the
proceEs, and, frankly, Lf that happens, Amy and I
canrt afford in our budget, to pursue the goals. So
I'm real and it happened EhiE week.
Irm algo not an early adaptser like Eome of
the folks here. Irm a middle adapter. So when you
consider who I might represent, it'E all the people in
the middLe of the belL curve that were waiting for
solar to become appropriatse for middLe adapters. And
I think I represent a huge nr:mber of people that wilL
not participate in Eolar panel inEtallation.
Another point regarding the grandfathering,
Hearing - October 27,2022 57
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Irm a little caught off gruard and by the irurediacy
of this decieion. I guesE my final new point that I
traventt heard tonight, Lf it comes to Eome rate
increase, I would hope the eomiEsion would teII Idaho
Power, "ThiE has to be a future decision down the road
for middle adaptere to respond appropriateJ.y.!r
Thank you.
COMMISSIONER AIIDERSON: Thank you for your
testimony, ilay.
And I have a trat just like his Eo that I e why
I was making that conment.
Timothy HoIe.
TIMOTHY HOI,E,
firsts duJ.y Eworn t,o tseLl ttre truth relating to Eaid
cauge, testified aE follows:
COMMISSTONER ANDERSON: Thank you.
MR. HOIJE: Do I need to spell my name?
COMMISSIONER AIIDERSON: Your name and
MR. HOLE: T-I-M-O-T-H-Y, HoIe, H-O-IJ-E. I a.gt an
Idaho Power customer. I live here locally in
Pocatello. I an also a Eolar repreaentat,iwe for
Inter:mountsain Wind & Solar. $Itro and itt E been
brougtrt, up a couple of t,imeE who iE arr active
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participant in ttre SoLarize PocateLlo initiative. I'm
very faniliar with Mike Engle and really a Lot of what
I planned to talk about was something that I feel Mike
Engle spoke abouts, and it waE thiE independent study.
I think it was worttr noting that a lot of
ttre factore that I rm Eure you are either aware of or
are going to be made aware of, aE its been submitted
or will be Eubmitted, weren't conEidered,
environsrental factorE or were significantIy
diEcounted. And thatrE something that I think is not
necessarily dishoneEt. Maybe it just wasn't
considered, but it waE not, a great move by thie Idaho
Power study.
On top of that and I think the point has
been raiEed a eouple of times. I meet with plenty of
people that are intereeted in moving forrard with
t,heir own solar systems . Many of these fo1ks, like
it I E been Eaid, are struggling in ureans and inereasing
the anount that they would have to pay for a system
ttrat achieves the exact t,he EErme thing that it would
with thiE 1 t,o 1 ratio or just increasing the payoff
period of these systems with ttre proposed net metering
procees is it'e going to be very tough for many of
tshese folkE to nove forward, which, aEi its been
brought up before, is a truge motivation or something
Hearing - October 27,2022 59
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ttrat is going to kiII the motivation to move fomard
with a more green energry producing eystem.
I think that is against the direction that
Idatro Power hae Eet for itself by 2045 to be a green
company and to eliminate ttre uEe of fossil fuelE.
And, you know, I beLieve very firmly aE an owner of my
own systeur that this wilL Lrave a negative impact on
aII of the reEidentse of Idaho and our energry
consurlption in the future.
COMMISSIONER AIIIDERSON: Thank you very much for
your testinony.
Gary Smith. Did I get Gary; right.
MR. SMITH: NO.
COMMISSIONER ANDERSON: No. Sorry.
MR. SMITH: Nobody does. ftrs Cary with a re.r
COMMISSIONER A}iIDERSON: Cary, thank you.
CARY SMITH,
first duly Eworn to teII the truth relating tso Eaid
ca.uge, testified aE foIIowE:
MR. SMITH: It ' s Cary Smith, C-A-R-Y. Smith
Etrould be as always S-M-f -T-II.
So I do not trave Eolar or wind generation,
however, I might in the futsure, and I want to speak to
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Hearing - October 27,2022 50
the nonopoly that ldaho Power enjoye. If I want to
buy or EeII power, I have no choice but to buy and
EeII to Idaho Power. I donrt have the ability to go
out and negotiate with Idaho Power. I canr t go to
another power generation company to try and seII my
power to then.
Having a monopoly is not just a one-way
Etreet. Idaho Power haE a responaibility not just
itrs stockholderE but alEo to the cuEtomerE of ldaho.
Thats means the power that, I might generate should be
valued at a higher rat,e becauEe I can only EeII to
Idaho Power. Slashing ttre generation rate to rock
bot,tom ie a gift to Idaho Power Etocktrolders and a
slap in the f ace t,o the peopJ.e of Idaho.
I would hope that you would underEtand and
consider that, I cannot negot,iate with ttreur and that
you are my only advocate betsween me and Idaho Power
and take that into coneideration that my
diEadvantageous relationship with Idaho Power and the
other people of Idaho have when you consider whether
or not to cut the rate or give uE a reaEonable rate aE
we have in the past.
Thank you.
COMMfSSIONER AIiIDERSON: Cary, are you an Idaho
Power customer.
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Hearing - October 27,2022 61
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MR. SIIITH: YeE.
COMMISSIONER NiIDERSON: Thank you. Thank you for
your testimony.
Linda Engle.
IJINDA ENGIJE,
first duly sworn to tell the truth relating to said
cause, testified as followg:
MS. ENGLE s My naEle is Linda Eng1e, E-N-G-L-E. I
am an Idaho Power cugtomer.
So we are fortunate enough to have a solar
systseur on our home and, we have the J.egacy net
metering, which iE the compensation of 1 kilowatt back
for each kilowatt that, we put onto the grid.
And we are interested in having other peopLe
have ttre Earne opportunity, and Eome peopJ-e have spoken
to that aE not having difficulty in being able to
put Eo1ar systens on their homes.
I ! d like to acknowledge and thank our
utility companies in fdaho for committing to 100
percent clean energy by 2045 and thank you to the
eonunission for corring aLl the way over here to
Pocat,ello. $Ie appreciate that.
So aE Eome people Lrave spoken about the
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study done by Crossborder, the value of solar ean be
aE high aE 18 centE or as low as a value given by
Idaho Power study at 3 centE per kilowatt hour. A low
value of Eolar means that Lromeowner I E will have to put
nuch more eLectricity onto the grid to get, that 1
kilowatt back. Homeownere will like1y have to eize
ttreir systeurs larger, aE we have heard, and it makes
ttreir payback for their systems J.onger becauee theEe
EyEtemE are more expensive.
This in turn wilL have a chil-ling ef f ect,
agrain as we have heard, on Idatro I s reeidentiaL sol-ar
industry. I beliewe the Public UtiJ.ity Conurission haE
retponsibility to keep Idatro buEineEsee strong.
Currently our utility spent gomewhere around $730
million to buy eleet,ricity that is generated out of
s tate . AI so our grreat the great ma j ori ty o f our
transportation fuelE are imported from out of etate.
So support for reEidential Eolar power gives
fdahoans the opportunity to not only power tsheir homeE
and vehicleE, but to also keep thoEe dollars right
here in Idaho. That strengthens ldahorE economy.
This depends upon a fair and equitable export credit
rate, what we are diseussing tonight. As I mentioned,
this value can be as high as 18 centE or as Iow aE 3
centE, depending on the different aspects of the etudy
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Hearing - October 27,2022 63
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tstrat you look at.
So Itm aeking the eomiEsion to seriously
consider the eeonomic and financial inplicationE of
accept,ing a study that givee a Low value of solar and
thoee implicatione on our Idaho f anilieE, couurunities,
and businesseE.
Thank you for your tine.
COMMISSIONER ATiIDERSON: Thank you for your
test,imony.
TraviE, do we have any other people signed
up to speak? IE there anyone present ttrat didrr t t Eigrr
up that wisheE to speak tonight?
!IR. TRIPP : Yes, sir.
COMMISSIONER ANDERSON: YeE, please.
iIOHN TRIPP,
first, duLy Eworn to teII ttre truth relating to Eaid
cauEe, teEtified aE followE:
MR . TRIPP : My narle the ilohn Tripp, spel led
T-R-I-P-P, and I €rm an Idaho Power customer.
dlust like this young lady over here, whereas
just last Monday a company came and put Eolar panels
all over my roof and big old inverters on my back
porch with the promise of, you know, cutting my power
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bilt. AE I aar a father of four and the T\I doeEnrt
have an off button, and it I E made it very hard to pay
the biLlE a lot of timeE when the power biLl comes and
it's going fron a much EuraLler house to a bigger house
and itrE 2 or $300 EometimeE and ittE almoEt
insurmountable. Thatts our fun budget.
And this was supposed to be the t,icket out.
And last night I got the eurail about, thiE and
everything that is going on and all I can say iE,
like, T'm appalled, and, Iike, I donrt underEtand.
Wtren is it going to stop? If thiE alLowed t,o happen,
like whatsts to Eay in five years they are, like, "OIr,
ttrat I E not enough money for uE. Now we are dropping
it to 2 centsrr and then 1 cent and t,hen pretty aoon
itrs just going to be negligible to have a solar panel
system. And Eo Irm kind of asking that we kind of
stop it, now.
You know, the Etatseurent haE been made, fair
and equitable, and I think its'e very fair. Like we
give you power, you give uE power, and why should it
be any different? Why Ehould the rate be different?
ft I E the part that gets me.
That I s it. Thank you.
COMMISSfONER AIiTDERSON: Thank you for your
testiurony.
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Hearing - October 27, 2022 55
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TYLER PRATT,
firet duly sworn to tell the truth relating to Eaid
cauge, testified renotely as followE:
MR. PRATTs My narle j.e Tlzler Pratt. Irm aIr Idaho
Power cuEtomer. I live trere in Pocate1lo .
I am a. I have a bacheLor I E degree j.n
renewable energry engineering and a masterrs in eivil,
and I practice civil engineering here in Pocatello.
I have done a Lot of our cLients are
municipals municipalitieE, and they are often very
interestsed in cLean energry for their facilitieE. Itve
done a nr:.mber of analyses for Rocky Mountain Power
systems that are Eerved by Rocky Mountain Power in the
area, and their ratses are aE effectiveJ.y wholesale to
the comrrercial scale facilitieE municipal
facilitsieE. Not a single one of thoEe systsems that I
have analyzed has penciled out. It t E al.ways not made
it past t,he preliminary analysis phaee, and I have a
feeling that with Idaho Powerrs new rates, wtrich are
proposed rates, which are eEEentia1J.y wtrol-esaLe
values that, that wiII continue to be the trend.
Meaning, Lf ldaho Powerr6 request goes through, it
wiII be an end to rooft,op Eolar, and not only for
homeowrrerE but aE well for corunereial facilitieE and25
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Hearing - October 27,2022 65
for municipal-ities.
The Eecond point, I would like tso make iE,
although I rm a proponent of renewable €r€rlff r I would
far rather see roof tops covered with eoLar than eoLar
farmE. Solar farmE take up a significant footprint,
often in far:urland whieh should be ideally growing
food, often in deEert or natural areag, which has an
environnental iurpaet. Utilizing the roof for
generating power, which iE conEumed locally, trakes a
lot more Eense. It doesn I t reqrrire as nuch
distribution, transmiEsion. IttE just Emart planning.
The laEt thing I I d like to Eay is that, the
idea that Idatro Power did ttreir own study to me is a
clear conflict of interest. I t,hink t,here is merit to
tome of their argn:nents in the walue of that the grid
prowides, and I think tlrat t s very reasonable and
logical, but I aIEo think tshats t,hey have discounted
many of the benefitE that diEtributed energlz hae,
environmentalJ.y, awoided coEtss, things of that nature.
So I wouLd highly propose that a fair independent
third party would be the one to do that service study,
not Idaho Power themselves who cJ.earJ.y has an intereEt
in squashing rooftop Eolar.
Thank you.
COIIMISSIONER AIIDERSON: Thank you for your
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Hearing - October 27,2022 67
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testimony, Tlr1er.
My liet has gone dry. So if anybody else
wiEhes to speak, this ie an opportunity. This is your
day. This is why we are herei so feel free to step up
and speak if you wish to.
And if I donrt see anybody step up we
have somebody stepping up. Ttrank you.
EOLI,IN SWAINSTON,
first duly Eworn to teII the truth relating to eaid
cauge, testified as follows:
MR. SWAINSTON: My nane is CoLLin SwaLnEton.
That I e S-W-A-f -N-S-T-O-N, and I am an ldaho Power
cuEtomer.
I did not plan to gets up here and to say
anyttring Eo my thoughts may be jurbted, but Itm in
agreement with everybody here tonight, t,hat thiE would
definitely be a it would be a very unJceneficial to
Idaho people that are tryingr to contribute to the pueh
to renewable energy. This push iE happening not just
in ldaho, but is happening in the count,ry and in the
world aa fears of climate change impacts continue to
grow. I believe that this would be very disingenuous
for ldaho Power to pase t,hiE for this to move
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Hearing - October 27,2022 58
for'ward with aII the Etatements that have been put out
in support for EoLar.
I arn in ttre EoLar industry. I work in the
solar industry. I tm in operationE and have the
pJ.eaeure of speaking with hundredE of cuEtomerE every
month, and this would have a very negative impact, for
current solar customers past ttre 2OL9 point that have
many of then couurit,ted t,o 20 - to 2 5 -year to 3 0 -year
loanE, and in thie instance, if they are not
grandfathered in, they are Etuck. They wiLL pay that.
And Eo if thiE doeE go through, which would
be very unfortunate, but if it doeE, I would hope that
you would consider ttrose people that hawe already urade
a conrritment under the trope and the premiee that solar
would pay off for them. And this was eomething that
they were willing to inveEt in, tshie clean energry
movement, and now their paybaek rates are potent,ially
being slashed more than haLf and E o that'e a very
negative impact.
I would also Like to add that while Idaho
Power stateE that clean energry has reduced in cost
over the last eeveral years, which is true, that that
haE not been the case for the Lasts Eeveral years, ot
leaEt for solar companies as infLation haE taken a
maEEive hit on soLar companies, not just inflation but
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Hearing - October 27,2022 69
rising intereEt rates. As many canrt afford to pay 20
to $30,000 out of pocket for solar, ttrerefore they
need to gets a loan. So there ie increasing intereEt
rates. There ie increaeing crisis on all of the
electric electrical equipment aE there hae been
ehortages throughout t,he industry. Every part of
Eolar is more expensive now than it was two, three,
four yearE B9o, and eoLar conpanJ.es and cuEtomers are
paying for that.
I can say that Eolar, while it does benefit
the cuetsomer and they are eventually going to get
payback on their system, they are not getting rich off
of eo1ar. And Eo I do beLieve t,hat thiE deciEion
should be taken very eeriouely and consider the impact
of those who have gone solar and ttrat are potentially
conEidering solar and that, if Eomettring does ehange
that there be given more than ampJ.e time for people to
part,icipate in renewable energfy ef fortE and for peopJ.e
that currently have Eolar to be grandfathered into the
eurrents net met,ering Etructure.
Thank you.
COMMISSfONER A}iIDERSON: Ttrank you. And can you
mention your first name.
MR. S?IIAINSTON: CoIIin, C-O-L-L-I-N.
COMMISSIONER AIIDERSON: YeE , please .
70Hearing - October 27,2022
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WESL,EY ![ORRIS,
f irEt duly E worn to t,ell the truth relat,ing to eaid
cauge, teEtified as follows:
MR. MORRIS: My nEune iE WesLey Morris,
M-O-R-R-I-S, and Irm an Idaho Power cuEtomer. I also
Lrave rooftop Eo1ar, and I work for a solar company.
We currently trave 27 of our e.rployeee that
are in the apprentice program tso become electricianE
that are working througtr that through the eoLar
industry.
I am not a very good public speaker Eo give
me a Eecond here to collect ury ttrougtrts.
COMMISSIONER AI{DERSON: You are doing fine. Take
your time.
MR. MORRIS: The monopoly thing with t,he power
company is the hardeEt thing for me. I donrt have
another option but to go through them, and you are my
voice. And so I'rr asking you to do what iE right for
rr€, for t,he cugtomers of Idaho Power and for t,he
Etate.
We shouldnrt have tshe somebody that has
tshat much power to sErfe tr$lellr 1rorlr rate just went up
and deal wit,h it. I' with solar we at leaEt hawe the
ability to cap our rate and that iE what people are
Hearing - October 27,2022 7L
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looking for is something for consistency and to be
able to take care of uE instead of juet, 'WeII, it
EuckE for us, but the power just went up and so now
our biLl went up and there is nothing that we can do
about it. rr So I def initeJ.y trope that you take that
into coneiderat,ion. Thank you.
COMMISSIONER AIiIDERSON: Ttrank you for your
teetimony. It iE getting down to which pJ.ease.
SIIASTA TOLI.EY,
firet duly surorn to tell the truth relating to said,
cause, testified aa followE:
MR. iIOLLEY3 My name iE Shasta ,Jo11ey, Iast name
J-O-L-L-E-Y, and I arn an Idaho Power customer.
f just wanted to bring attention to a lot of
federal incentsives that werve Eeen behind renewable
energry in the country you know a lot earlier thiE
year. Exciting stuff, and I think you know, we Eee
on a federal level tshe one of the biggest
advantages to and one of the biggest incentiwes to
getting solar on your home is the federal tax
incentive, the ITC credit rate, wtrieh they Lrawe
increaEed announced an increase to 30 percent and
extending that for the next 10 yeare, which iE25
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fantaEtic for the industry, and I think that what
Idaho Power is doing here is in exact, opposition to
wtrat the federal governnent is trying to push, BEi far
aE climate initiativeE go, aE weLL aa we aee a lot of
initiatives going into building infraEtructsure for
domeEtic manufacturing of EoLar module specif,ical.ly,
and I think tshat I s a clear sign tshat on a nationaL
Ievel we are puthing against climate change and for
independence for honeownerg and keeping up with
increaEing populat,ions, especially in a state like
Idaho, one of the fasteEt growing states in the
eountry for years running now.
And I donlt beliewe itls been talked about
enough, again, with the push behind renewable enerlIy
on a f ederal lewel and t,hen to Eee on the loeal leveL
Idaho Power trying to disineentivize renewable energy
and the opportunity for their cugtomers t,o expJ.ore
ttroEe options and, specuJ.ation I juets hope thatr 1rolr
know, federal incentives and decisionE are aIEo taken
into consideration when decidingr, you know, what
reEultE will come from thiE cage.
COMMISSfONER AIIDERSON: Thank you for your
testimony.
Anyone else? ThiE is it. This is the
opportunity. P1ease.
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Hearing - October 27,2022 73
MR. FORD: Larry Ford again.
COMMISSIONER A}iIDERSON: Hi , Larry.
DIR. FORD: One thing I forget to mentsion before
is t,trat, like Cathy, I an and have been for many yearE
a contributor to the green power progran by Idaho
Power. This in their laet push for reducing the
reimbursements rate hae pretsty much convinced me that
the only green they are intsereEted in is money. They
are not interestsed in renewable energy aE euch unleeE
they can make a buck off of it.
Now, aE I mentioned before , T' m not gure
ttrat this syetem I put in wiII pay back in my
lifetime, but I don!ts care, and Irm probably in better
financial shape that many people, but what thiE would
tsend to make me do, even though it wonr t affect me
becauge I rm grandfathered in, is put a battery eystem
on my solar and just disenga,ge aE much as I ean from
Idaho Power and I think ottrer people may reach that
Eane decision. If you are going to be playing so
unfair with your eustomers, the heII with you. I'm
done.
COMMISSIONER AIiIDERSON: Thank yorl, Larry.
PIeaEe.
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Hearing - October 27,2022 74
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TYSON CHAVIS,
firEts duly Eworn to teII tshe truth relating to Eaid
cauae, testified aE follows:
[IR. CHAVIS s My narne is Tlreon ChaviE, Iast nane
is spelled C-H-A-V-I-S. And I do work in Eo1ar
diEtribution here in PocateLlo. I aLEo lived in
PocatelLo for baEically ury whole life. And I rm 25
years old.
And I Struess I have a littLe bit more of a
personal thought here, and the main thought, is that
solar haE definitely changed like uqr life in the sense
tstrat it waE arr actual career avenue for Eomeone like
me who was just trying to nake t,hings work out.
I took on my neptrew when I was 18 and trying
to find like a reaL job well, juet Etsuff like
working ats just dead end stuff, but say eolar came
Iong Greentech is what it iE ealIed. It actually
gave me a real opportunity to grow.
And I SIueEs the point Irm trying to make iE
thats I do think thiE decieion could potentially kiLI
out the opportunity not only for me going for-ward, but
for a lot of other people my age or younger trying to
find like a real healthy career and somet,hing that is
not just a way to make money but to aetually like make
Hearing - October 27,2022 75
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a di f f erence . f think ttrat I s pretty Lnportant for
young people moving forward, LE just doing something
ttrat actually feels like that ! s not just making money,
but also improving thingsi ao...
COI{MISSIONER ANDERSON: Thank you for your
test,imony.
MR. CHAVIS: Thank you.
Arryone elee. Pleaee.
MS. DALTON: He11o.
COMMISSIONER AIiIDERSON: HeIIo.
COI'RTNEY DAI..TON,
firEt duly Eworn tso teII ttre truth relating to eaid
cauae, teetified as foLlowE:
MS. DAIJTON: My name is Courtney Dalton, Iast,
D-A-IJ-T -O-N.
I would firEt like to agree with everyone
trere f or the stsatementE . And j ust speaking about the
eeonomy and kind of the negative impact that it wouLd
have if people started shifting away from the solar
induetry and kind of the wanting to go Eolar and I
think t,hat would be detrimental to the working
environsrent of our Etate. People already tend to
think that Idaho is behind the timeE. We have a Lot25
Hearing - October 27,2022 76
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of people moving here from CaLifornia and Utah, and
they are kind of baffled tso aee thatr forl know, there
ig not Eolar in every single neighborhood on every
corner.
And there are a lot of jobs here that the
solar provides from saleE, eLectrical. There is
office work. There iE distribution. You name it,
itrE out there. As Eomeone else brought up, there iE
peopl.e in the apprenticestrips within the collegee
here.
And I also wanted to bring up, because
nobody haE mentioned, ttrat even Idaho power provides
jobs to people who twap out neters for theee solar
customers, and they do a grreat job at it. We work
with other ut,ility companieE wlro are terrible at
get,ting t,hat process moving. And I Eort of want to
just comslend Idaho Power in that induetry becauee they
move it quickJ-y. They do it efficiently, and it kind
of srakes everyone's job eaeier in the solar induetry.
So just something that hadn't been brought up Eo I
wanted to add that to everyttring else that hae been
said about the economy and the solar worLd.
So thank you.
COMMfSSIONER AIiIDERSON: Thank you for your
testimony.25
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Hearing - October 27,2022 77
Round two. Welcome back.
MR. GARNER: Do you need to Ewear me in agrain?
COMMISSIONER AIIDERSON: No. ilust your narre agrain
for ttre record.
MR. GARNERs My nane is Richard Garner,
G-A-R-N-E-R. ilust aE people have been diecueEing, one
point that I forgot to nention waE dealing with ttre
price in our area, we are Just below the Minidoka Dasr
and Eo we have a lot of utsilitsy companies emaller
utility companies that Eervice the locaI corurunitsy and
ttreir rateE are eigmificantly lower than the Idaho
Power rates. And as werve diEcussed this with people
at the Idaho Power eompany, tlre unofficial responae is
there is a lot more infrastructure that Idaho Power
tras to carry power tso the more rural spots, and we
recogrnize that, and we accept ttrat,. But in doing 6oe
t,hey cantts have it, both wayE. They canrt charge more
for their power and then turn around and expect uE to
put Eolar in for leEe money.
If we are helping them carry that
infraEtrueture out, then they should be on the hook to
compensate ug at a fair rate. And that waE just a
point I wouLd Like to make. Thank you.
COMMISSIONER AIIDERSON: Thank you, again,
Richard.
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Hearing - October 27,2022 78
Arryone eLse? WeLL, think about its for just
a second.
But I do want tso take the opportunity to
thank our eourt reporter, ilanet French, for joining ue
tonight too and theee intervenere that are present.
And I aleo want to take this opportunity to thank
everyone here, nots juet beeause it,rs beneficial that
we here from yo[, but, also, honestly, for the decon:.ur
and t,he pleaeant nature of this meeting and your
abitity to make us feel welcome in PocateLlo. That I E
not loEt on uE, and we do appreciate it very, very
much.
We are nots always weLcome ewerywtrere.
Sometimes we have a bJ.g target on uE. And that'E
okay. Thatts how our job ie. But it,s rare that
everybody here iE so kind to uE tonight, and we
appreciate that very nuch, and we thank you for that.
And if there iE no one eLse if anybody
else wantE to speak, please do, and if rlot, we are
going to add adjourn.
Thank you again. We are adjourned.
(The proceedings concluded at 7246 p.m.)
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REPORTERI S CERTIFICATE
l, rrAlIET L. FRENCE, CSR No. 946, CertLfied
Shorthand Reporter, certify:
That the foregoing proceedings were taken
before me at, the tLme and place therein set forth, at
which time the witnesa was put under oath by me;
That, the teetLmony and all obJectJ.one Dade
were recorded etenographically by me and tranacrLbed
by ue or under By direction;
That, tshe foregoing is a true and correct
record of all testLmony gJ.ven, to tshe best of uy
abi].ity;
I further certify tbat I an not a relatLve
or euployee of alry attorney or party, nor an I
f inancLally interested Ln thLe aets:Lon.
IN WfTNESS SIHERBOF, I eet my hand and eeal
this 15th day of November, 2022.
,TAI.IET L. FRENCH, CSR No. 946, RPR
Notary Publ.ic
P.O. Box 2636
BoLse, Idabo 8370X.-2635
lfir CoztmiEeion E:qriree LL/3 /2028
actions (1)
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In the Matter of ldaho Power Company's Application
to Complete the Study Review Phase. . .
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$
Hearing
October 27,2022
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r!ti" :. i '....IrrJ, 1 .( tri"M & M Court Reporting Service
(208)34s-961l(ph) (800)234-96rr (208)-34s-8800(fax)
(80) $14 - around
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In the Matter of Idaho Power Company's Application
to the Study Review Phase. . .
Heering
October 27,2022
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M & M Court Reporting Service
(208)34s-961 l(ph) [phone] (208)-34s-8800(fax)
'r'lin-[ -Sl'; igri't'(81) arrive - car
charges (1)
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commission (12)
3 : I 5 ;4:8 ;20 :25 ;21 :3,1 3,1 7 ;
4l :25 ;44: 13 ;57 :4;61 :23 ;
62:12;63:2
coMMrssroNER(87)
3 :3 ;4 :2,4,19,23 ;7 :4,1 5 ;9 :3,
I l;10:18,24;l I :8,13;13:3,5,
l2,l 5,24;14:2: I 6: 1,6, I 3, I 6;
I 7 :4 ;l 8 :21 ;19 :4;24:7,12,1 8,
23 ;2 5 : I 2,23 ;27 : I 4,2 I ;28 :2,5,
l0;30: 19,25;3 I :8,12, l4,l 8;
33 :5,1 4;37 :1,9 ;41 :6,1 4;44:2,
10;47 :22;48:5,9, I 3 ;5 I : 1,9;
5 4:2 5 ;5 5 :4,1 2,1 6,20,23 ;57 :8,
I 8,20;59 : I 0, I 4,1 6;60:24;
6l :2;63 :8,1 4;64:24;66:25 ;
69 :22,25 ;7 0 : I 4 ;7 I :7 ;7 2 :22 ;
73:2,22;7 5:5,10;7 6:24;77 :3,
24
commissioners (3)
4:ll;16:22;47:2
commitment (3)
29:19:45:13:68:14
commits (1)
47:15
committed (3)
l4:ll;40:24;68:8
committing (1)
6l:21
communities (1)
63:5
community (3)
40:17;43:18;77:10
companies (13)
8 :22,23 ;l 2: l,l 3,20 ; | 6 :24 ;
6l :21 ;68:24,25 ;69: 8;76: I 5 ;
77:9,10
company (18)
4:7 ;l I :18;12:2;13 :9,10;
| 6:21 ;17 : I 5 ;18 :4,18 ;37 :l 4;
43 :l 5 ;5 4:3 ;59 :5 ;60 : 5 ;63 :23 ;
70:7,17;77:13
In the Matter of Idaho Power Company's Application
to Complete the Study Review Phase. . .
Hearing
October 27,2022
carbon (2)
29:10;34:l
care (2)
7l:2;73:13
career (2)
74:13,24
careful (1)
33',2
carried (1)
26..22
carry (2)
77:15,20
Cary (s)
59:15,16,18,22;60:24
C-A-R-Y (1)
59:22
Case (5)
3 : 5 ;4: I I :5 :2;68:23 :7 2:21
Cathy (4)
47:25;48:l ,7 ;73:4
caught (l)
57:l
cause (28)
7:13:9:9;ll:6;13:20;
l6: l0;17: I 0;l 9:2;24:16;
25:19;27 :19;3 I :6;33 : I 2;
37 :7 ;41 :12;44: 8;48: 3 ;5 I :7;
55: l0;57: I 6;59:20;61 :8;
63:18;65:3 ;67 : I I ;70:3 ;
7l:12;74:3;75:14
cent (1)
64:14
cents (13)
28: l7;30: 15,16;38:9,10;
42: I 6,1 8 ;46 :23 ;62:2,3,24,25 ;
64:14
certainly (1)
50:ll
chair (1)
44:22
chairman (l)
4:3
chance (1)
l0:7
change (20)
8:3;10:l l;14:9;15:8;
3 4:2 I ;3 5 :7 ;3 6 : 6,20 ;37 : I 8 ;
3 9 : I 3 ;40 : | 5 ;43 :20 ;47 : I 4;
48:24;50: 5 ;53: 5 ;5 6: I 2 ;
67:23;69:16;72:8
changed (1)
74:12
Changes (7)
3 :10;10:12;17 :17 ;21 :5 ;
22:6;23:13;36:ll
changing (2)
5 l:17, l8
chapter (1)
45:2
chapters (1)
45:4
charge (2)
32:9;77:17
Company's (1)
3:6
compare (1)
38:5
compelting (1)
50:18
compensate (5)
42:25 ;43 :22,23,24;7 7 :22
compensated (2)
42:18;43:21
compensation (2)
43:9;61:14
competitive (1)
l4:20
Complete (3)
3:7;18:9;25:10
completely (1)
39: l5
component (l)
50: l3
Comprehensive (1)
3:8
conceive (1)
29:14
concept (1)
45:18
concern (1)
28:20
concerned (1)
48:23
concerns (5)
23 : I 7,21 ;2 5 :3 ;28 : L9 ;29 : 5
concluded (1)
78:22
conclusion (1)
46:22
conditioners (1)
26,,20
conducive (1)
53: I
conduct (2)
25:2;46:18
conducted (2)
25:l;46:21
conlirm (1)
l3:8
conflict (2)
l5:23;66:14
cons (1)
8:21
Conservation (2)
5:7;49:15
conservative (2)
3:20;5:25
conservators (1)
48:22
consider (12)
ll:23;17:21;18:6;2 I : I 6;
40 :2 | ;42 :20 ;5 6 :20 ;60 : I 6,20 ;
63:3;68:13;69:14
consideration (4)
33 :2 ;60 : I 8 ;7 | : 6 ;7 2 :20
considered (3)
riitr-i -',;-r t!:i li M & M Court Reporting Service
(208)34s-961 l(ph) (800)234-961r (208F34s-8800(fax)
(82) carbon - considered
cuff(l)
55:13
current (9)
2l :l I ;37 :20,21 ;46:l I ;
5 3 :7,1 2;5 4:9 ;68 :7 ;69 :20
currently (8)
I 5 :22;l 6:19;17: I 8;28: 1 8 ;
53 :23 ;62: I 4;69 : I 9;70 : 8
curtailments (l)
53:9
curve (1)
56:21
cusp (1)
56:7
custodian (1)
49..21
Customer (47)
3 : 5,9 ;6:9 ;7 :3 ;9 :l 4;l 0:4;
I | :lO,12;12:6;13 :24;l 6: I 5 ;
I 7: I 3; 1 8:4; I 9 :5,7 ;21 :19;
24:22;25 :23,25,25 ;28 :9 ;
3 I : I 5, I 6;33 : I 8;35:24,24;
37 :l l,l3,l 6;40:14;41 :l 6;
44:12;48:10,12;5 I : I l,l3 ;
5 5 :20,22;5 7 :22;60 :2 5 ;6 I : I I ;
63 :21 ;65:6;67 : I 5 ;69: I I ;
70:6;71:15
Customers (23)
5 :8;17 :21,22;l 8:9 ;25 :9 ;
33 :23 ;3 4 : I 6,23 ;3 5 :2 ;42: 5 ;
43 : I 3,24,25 ;45 : 1 5 ;48 :22 ;
60 :9 ;68 : 5,7 ;69 :8 ;7 0 :20 ;
72:17:73:20;76:14
cut (l)
60:21
cutting (1)
63..25
D
Dairy (1)
51: l3
DALTON (4)
75:9,12,16,16
D-A-LT-O-N (1)
75:17
Dam (l)
'17:8
data (3)
46:10,ll;47:3
day (4)
38:23;39:l ,8:67:4
daytime (1)
32:10
dead (1)
74:17
deadline (1)
46:14
deal (1)
70:24
dealers (1)
12:18
dealing (1)
cost (11)
22:l;31:21;32: I 8;34: l0;
3 8 : 5 ;41 :3 ;42: I 5 ;5 0 : I 4,22 ;
53:ll;68:21
Costs (14)
3 :8 ;19 :24;20 :24 ;22:20 ;
23 :1,6,10,16;39:4;40: I 8;
53:13,17,19;66:19
Council (4)
44:21,23;45:24;49:2
Council's (1)
45:3
counsel (1)
5:5
counter (2)
25:7;36:22
country (3)
67:22;71:18;72:12
County (1)
l9:19
coupte (5)
17 :l 4;29 :12;5 5 :l 5 ;57 :25 ;
58:15
course (2)
4:25;23:8
court (3)
6:12:14:24;78:4
CoURTNEY(2)
75:12,16
cover (1)
49:8
covered (3)
6:18,22;66:4
covlD (2)
5: l9;49: I I
Crapo (1)
l5:23
Crapors (1)
l5:19
creating (1)
53:20
credible (1)
47:4
credit (Q
I 9 : I 5 ;20 : 1 6;22 : I 3 ;3 4:22 ;
62:22;71:23
credits (1)
34:22
crisis (4)
3 8 : I 6 ;3 9 : I 2;40 :2 ;69 :4
criticat (2)
l0:14;18:23
crop (1)
20:7
crops (1)
8:2
Crossborder (Q
25:7;45:23;46:5, I 1 ,20;
62:l
Crossborder's (2)
25:6;42:14
cross-examine (1)
5: l3
In the Matter of Idaho Power Company's Application
to Complete the Study Review Phase. ..
17:20;58:8,12
considering (3)
27:2;56:14;69:16
consistency (1)
7l:l
constrained (1)
20:2
constraints (1)
3:19
construct (1)
32:15
constructed (1)
20:5
consultants (1)
46:22
consume (1)
20:1 8
consumed (1)
66:9
consumer (1)
40:12
consumers (2)
l4:21;22:8
consumption (4)
20:17;23:3,25;59:9
contemplated (1)
26:12
context (1)
22:25
continental (1)
22:16
continue (3)
38:22;65:22;67:23
continues (1)
39:9
continuing (2)
26:7;50:15
continuous (l)
38:25
contract (1)
17:22
contractors (1)
l2:17
contracts (1)
l8: l4
contrast (1)
45:22
contribute (3)
36:5;49:5;67:20
contributed (l)
48:24
contributor (1)
73:5
control (2)
52:21;53:14
conversion (1)
52:5
convinced (1)
73:7
corner (2)
20:l;76:4
corollary (1)
23:8
77:7
deals (1)
20:21
decade (l)
8:8
decide (2)
l5:7;53:6
decided (1)
3l:20
deciding (1)
72:20
decision (12)
4:12;18:7,13 ;3 0 :4;3 8 : 3 ;
4l :23 ;47 :21 ;57 :2,5 ;69 :13 ;
73:19;74:21
decisions (6)
I I :23 ;24: 4 ;3 6 : | 4 ;5 | :2 5 ;
54:19;72:19
decorum (1)
78:8
decreased (1)
53: l9
decreases (1)
43:9
decreasing (2)
40:2,3
defer (1)
6:3
defined (1)
25:8
delines (1)
23:21
definite (1)
l5:23
definitely (4)
I 2:22;67 :l 9 ;7 I :5 ;7 4: 12
degree (2)
26:4;65:7
delayed (1)
2l:6
delays (1)
19:14
deliberations (1)
6:15
delivered (1)
32:10
delivering (1)
32:12
demand (5)
8: I 5,1 8;32: I l;40:4;43:ll
dental (1)
l2:9
Department (1)
49:2
depending (1)
62:25
depends (1)
62:22
desert (1)
66:7
deserve (1)
45:25
design (2)
Hearing
October 27,2022
M & M Court Reporting Service
(208)34s-e61 l(ph) (800)234-961r (208)-34s-8800(fax)
(83) considering - design
dryer (1)
8:4
due (3)
26:4;53:9,22
duly (28)
7 :12:-9:8;l I :5; I 3: l9; I 6:9;
17 :9 ;19 :1 ;24:l 5;25 : I 8;
27 :l 8;3 I :5 ;33 :l | ;37 :6;
4l :l I ;44:7 ;48 :2;5 I : 6;55 :9;
5'l :l 5 ;59 :19 ;61 :7 ;63 :17 ;
65:2;67 :10;7 0:2;7 I :l I ;7 4:2;
75:13
during (8)
5 : I 5 ;2 I :20 ;3 I :23 ;32 : I 0 ;
33:19,20;48.,25;49:10
duty (1)
39:25
E
disingenuous (3)
32:6;35:15;67:24
disingenuously (1)
l4: l8
dissuade (2)
39:15,24
dissuading (1)
39:25
distributed (8)
I 4: I 9 ;3 4:9 ;46 : 6,1 6,1 9 ;
47:9;48:18;66:18
distribution (4)
23 :22 ;6 6 : I | ;7 4 :7 ;7 6 :7
distributors (4)
12:-14,15,15,16
diving (1)
37:1 8
Docket (2)
2l:12;25:2
document (1)
4:14
Dog (3)
12:13;13:10,11
Dogrs (1)
12:13
dollars (4)
30:1;34:6;35:9;62:20
donestic (1)
72:6
done (12)
I 5 :24;l 9 :9 ;3 5 :22 ;37 :2 | ;
3 8 :24;49 : I 0 ;5 4 :7,20 ;62 : I ;
65:10,13:'73:21
doors (1)
6:16
double (1)
l5:5
doubt (2)
12:23;'39:21
doubtful (1)
49:25
down (11)
3 :21 ;21 : 6;28 :24 ;29 : 4;
30: I 5 ;3 5 : I l;38:17 ;40:12;
54:20;57:5;71:8
dozens (1)
12:12
drag (1)
32:19
drags (1)
54:17
drain (1)
36:25
drastic (1)
43:22
drawing (l)
l5:16
drive (1)
23:6
dropping (1)
64:13
dry (3)
19:25;20:7;67:2
eagerly (2)
49:13,22
earlier (4)
44:21;49:18;50: I 8;71 : 18
early (2)
49: I l;56: l8
earned (3)
34:6,17;35:18
easier (1)
76:19
echo (2)
4l:,21;42:13
echoing (1)
43:14
economic (5)
3 6: I 4;37 :22;49 :24;53 : 12;
63:3
economically (3)
47:13;49:7;50:6
economy (4)
| 2:2 5 :62:2 I :7 5 :20 :7 6 :22
ecosystem (1)
l2:14
ECR (2)
23:2,7
ECRS (1)
23:23
edge (1)
23:5
effect (3)
2l:19,22:62:10
effective (3)
23:14;50:15,22
effectively (1)
65:15
effects (4)
I4:9;36:6:43:22:50:4
efficient (l)
53: I
efliciently (1)
76:1 8
efforts (4)
23 :4:42:24;49: I 5 ;69: I 8
In the Matter of Idaho Power Company's Application
to Complete the Study Review Phese. . .
12:6;43:17
designed (2)
l4:20;20:18
desire (l)
52:17
destroyed (1)
l4:17
detail (1)
46:7
detailed (1)
45:20
details (1)
46:13
deter (1)
l4:20
detrimental (1)
75:23
devalues (1)
l4:14
difference (2)
46:6;75:.l
different (5)
I 3 : I 0 ;28 :2 ;A:25 ;64 :21,21
differentiated (1)
32:9
difficult (l)
53:6
difficulty (1)
6l:18
dime (3)
32:-15,16,16
directed (1)
47:ll
direction (l)
59:3
directly (1)
32:24
disadvantageous (1)
60: l9
discounted (2)
58: l0;66: l7
discourage (4)
7 :25 ;27 : 13 ;32:21 ;3 6 : 12
discouraging (3)
l0:5,16;36: l8
discussed (2)
24:4;77:12
discusses (1)
22:14
discussing (2)
62:23;77:6
discussion (l)
22:ll
discussions (l)
23:23
disengage (1)
73:17
dishonest (1)
58:ll
disincentive (3)
20:14;29:8;30:7
disincentivize (1)
72:16
either (3)
8:12,21;58:6
ELAP (2)
22:17,18
electric (6)
8: 15,16,19;40:5;50: I I ;
69:5
electrical (8)
| 2: 5,1 4 ;20 :23 ;23 : I ;3 4:9 ;
43:17;69:5:76:6
electricians (1)
70:9
electricity (14)
I 4:22;19 :21 ;26: 8, I 8,2 l,
2l ;32 : I 0 ;37 :24;3 8 :6 ;49 :9 ;
50:24:52:4;62:5,15
eligibility (1)
l9:14
eliminate (3)
2l:l;39:24;59:5
eliminated (1)
23:13
else (13)
5:19;6:2;25:22;40:6;
5 3 : I 8 ;67 :2 ;7 2 :24 ;7 5 :8 ;7 6 :8,
2l;78: l,l8,l9
email (1)
64:8
employed (1)
l3:9
employees (9)
I I :25 ;1 2:2,3,1 l,12;39 :2;
43:16;51:24;70:8
encourage (4)
I 6 :23 ;27 : I 2;33 :22;47 : I
encouraged (2)
34:3;50: l0
encouraging (3)
7:23;9:17;10:12
end (5)
3 8 :23,25 ;39 :8 ;65 :24 ;7 4 : I 7
Energy (55)
5 :3 ;8:7,8;12:24;1 4: I 1,12,
I 9,21 ;l 7 : I ;22:20 ;23 : I 0,1 6 ;
24: 1,2 ;26 : I 0 ;3 4: I 9,22 ;3 6 :4 ;
38:l 6;39:12;45 :1,6,7,8,14,
I 5,17,1 8,23 ;46 :2,5,6,1 6,19 ;
47 :9,1 6;49 :6;50:3,8;54: I 4;
59 :2,8;61 :22;65 :8,12;66:3,
18;67 :21 ;68:1 6,21 ;69 : 18;
7l:18;72:14,16;73:9
engineering (3)
l2:5;65:8,9
Engle (12)
44:4,6,1 l,l 1,22;47 :24;
58:2,4;61:.4,6,10,10
E-N-G-L-E (2)
44:l l;61:10
enjoys (1)
60: I
enough (7)
26: 1 0;40: 1 8;52:7,3;61:12;
64:13;72:14
Hearing
October 27,2022
'\ii:t,=.. .!..,-.r .3ir i:M & M Court Reporting Service
(208)34s-961 l(ph) (800)234-961 I (208F34s-8800(fax)
(84) designed - enough
46:6
exchange (2)
22:16,18
excitement (1)
33:22
Exciting (1)'ll:19
exclusively (l)
l4:22
excuse (4)
5:4;13:4;22:17;32:4
expect (2)
23:7;77:18
expectation (1)
26:14
expenses (1)
19:22
expensing (1)
52:23
expensive (2)
62:9;69:7
experienced (l)
2l:25
experiencing (2)
42:22;53:8
experts (1)
54:5
explore (1)
72:17
exponential (1)
42:23
export (5)
| 5 :12;19 : | 5 ;21 : | 4;22:13 ;
62:22
exported (1)
46:2
exports (1)
20:16
extended (1)
30: l4
extending (1)
7l:25
extra (1)
26:ll
F
50 : I 5 ;62:22;64: I 8, I 9;66 :20;
77:22
fairly (1)
26:25
fall (2)
22:10;49:12
Fatls (2)
37:14;43:16
familiar (1)
58:2
families (1)
63:5
family (4)
8:1;16: l9;19:18;34:5
fantastic (2)
M:18;72:l
far (4)
22:2 I ;4 I :20 ;66 :4 ;7 2 :3
farm (10)
I 6: l9;19: I 7, I 9;20:10:,
2 I :9,22 ;5 I : 12,23 ;52 :8 ;53 : I 0
farmable (1)
53:l I
farmer (1)
2l:23
farmers (5)
2l :17 ;29 :12;36: I 3 ;53 :9;
54:15
farming (3)
8:l;29:15;53:25
farmland (1)
66:6
Farms (5)
8:l,l l;51:25;66:5,5
fastest (2)
43:19;72:ll
father (1)
64:l
fatigue (1)
42:6
fatigued (1)
42:5
fault (l)
39:3
fears (1)
67:23
federal (11)
| 4 :23 ;22:4,9 ;53 :24 ;5 4: I 3 ;
7 I : 17,20,22;7 2:3,1 5,19
feeder (1)
20:5
feel (7)
l4:7 ;3 5 :l 4;36:19 ;51 :21 ;
58:3;67:4;78: l0
feeling (1)
65:20
feels (1)
75:3
fees (1)
38:7
felt (3)
49:5;50:5;52:16
few (4)
face (1)
60:14
facilities (4)
65:12,16,17,25
facility (1)
20.,22
facing (1)
26:3
fact (4)
22:3 ;26 : 4;3 3 :23 ;46 :23
factors (2)
58:6,9
facts (1)
4:11
fair (12)
2 5 :3 ;26 :8 ;46 : 1,3 ;47 :4,7 ;
In the Matter of Idaho Power Company's Application
to Complete the Study Review Phase. . .
Ilearing
October 27,2022
ensure (1)
22:6
enter (2)
38:16;40:2
entire (1)
22:3
entities (3)
29:11,23;30:7
environment (1)
75:24
environmental (3)
47:13;58:9;66:8
environmentalty (1)
66:19
equipment (3)
l2:161'15:6;69:5
equitable (5)
46 : 1,3 ;47 :5 ;62 :22 ;64 : I 9
Eric (2)
4:2;5:6
especially (1)
72:10
essentially (5)
8: l3;32: 18;34:l;35:12;
65:21
establishing (1)
M:|4
estimate (1)
22:19
estimated (1)
3l:21
estimates (2)
23:10,15
evaluate (1)
2l:9
even (11)
l0:7; l6: I 8,23;30: 10,13;
32:24;3 4: 13 ;46: I 9; 54 : 1 0;
73:15;76:12
evening (5)
3:3,16,16;4:18;47:l
eventually (I)
69:l I
everybody (6)
3:11,20;26:19;41: l8;
67:1 8;78:1 6
everyone (3)
5:21;75:18;78:7
everyone's (l)
76:19
everywhere (1)
78:1 3
evidence (1)
4:12
exact (2)
58:20;72:2
exactly (1)
32:12
example (1)
38: l3
examples (2)
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M & M Court Reporting Service
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t\ i rru -[ r'!,,.: t-il'r,!lt::(85) ensure - focusing
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In the Matter of Idaho Power Company's Application
to Complete the Study Review Phase.. .
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Hearing
October 27,2022
H
.li:, 1 ..:, : ii;tr,M & M Court Reporting Service
(208)34s-961 1 (ph) (800)234-961r (208)-34s-8800(fax)
(86) fold - hedge
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I
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In the Matter of Idaho Power Company's Application
to Complete the Study Review Phase. . .
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Industrial (2)
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20 :6 ;3 4 : I 8 ;52 : 19,24 ;7 2 :5 ;
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Hearing
October 27,2022
M & M Court Reporting Service
(208)34s-961 l(ph) [phone] (208)-34s-8800(fax)
(87) Heffron - instance
52:l
K
43:1 8
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50: l9
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24:3
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52:7
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l8:4,16;21:13;37:17;
55 : I 3 ;64: I 6, I 6;7 5:20,22;
76:2,18:78:16
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8: l8
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In the Matter of Idaho Power Company's Application
to Complete the Study Review Phase. . .
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6 :25 ;7 :2,2,1 l,l 7 ;9 :3,21 ;
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30 :21,21 ;33 :6 ;3 5 :21 ;49 : 4;
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40:3,4;7 I :20;7 2:8,1 5,1 5
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526
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2O:20
Hearing
October 27,2022
M & M Court Reporting Service
(208)34s-961 l(ph) (800)234-e6tt (208)-34s-8800(fax)
(88) instead - limit
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78:l I
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24: I ;28 : I 8 ;3 8 :2;7 7 : I I
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37:21
main (2)
17:20;74:ll
maintain (1)
42:24
maiority (1)
62:16
makes (5)
5 3 : 5,21 ;62:7 ;66 :9 ;7 6 : I 9
making (6)
I I :2 l; I 8: l3;30:4;50: l4;
57:ll;75:3
manage (2)
18:17,17
manner (2)
15:l l;39:3
manufacturing (1)
72:6
many (16)
5 :22;9 : I 5 ;2 I : I 6;3 I : 17 ;
32:7 ;36:23;40: I 6;5 I : I 5,2 I ;
58:17,23 ;66:18 ;68:8;69: I ;
73:4,14
Marie (1)
5:7
market (5)
22:15;23:2,6,9,15
Mary (1)
5:9
massive (1)
68:25
masterrs (1)
65:8
Matter (2)
3:6;6:15
may (7)
5 :l 5 ;6:25 ;29:8,21 ;45 :l 6;
67:17;73:18
maybe (6)
6: l,l6;29: I 8;53: 15;54: l0;
58:l I
meal (1)
39:7
mean (4)
I 0: I I ;35: I 5;3 8:4;42:7
Meaning (2)
37:25;65:23
means (6)
8:13 ;22:24;45: I 6;58 : I 8;
60:10;62:4
meantime (1)
2l:25
mechanic (1)
12:17
mechanism (1)
40:6
median (1)
37:25
meet (7)
8:17 ;33 :25 ;34:4,19;3 5:13,
18;58:15
meeting (1)
78:9
megawatts (1)
38:1 7
member (1)
6:9
members (3)
3:13:45:4,5
memory (1)
32:6
mention (5)
28 : I 3 ;49 :20 ;69 :23 ;7 3 :3 ;
77:7
mentioned (9)
28:13,16,21,23 ;46:12;
5 4 : I 8 :62:23 ;7 3 : I I :7 6 : I 2
merit (1)
66:14
merits (1)
22:14
met (1)
56:7
meter (1)
l0:2
metering (17)
| 6 :24;21 : 5 ;22 :7 ;23 : I 4 ;
25 :25;28:17 ;30: I 5 ;32: I ;
3 4:l I ;37 : I 8;48:19 ;49 : 17 ;
53 :5 ;56:6;58: 22;61 :l 4;69 :20
meters (1)
76:13
method (1)
22:22
methodology (l)
47:3
mic (1)
56:3
micro (2)
43:6,'7
Micron (1)
5: l0
mid (1)
l6:1 8
mid-r2 (1)
38: l0
In the Matter of ldaho Power Company's Application
to the Study Review Phase. . .
Linda (3)
6l:4,6,10
tine (1)
20:6
lines (1)
26:23
Lisa (1)
4:20
list (2)
12:18;67:2
listening (1)
I l:19
little (10)
5:20;15:3;17: l;18:5;
38:19 ;44:23 ;52: 17 ;53 : | 5 ;
57:l;74:10
Litzinger (7)
27 :l 5,17,23 ;28:4,7,7,1 |
L-I-T-Z.S-I-N-G-E-R (1)
28:8
tive (4)
4:9;9:14;57:22;65:6
lived (1)
74:7
loan (1)
69:3
loans (1)
68:9
local (12)
ll:17 ;12:14,15, l5,l 6, 16,
17,17 ;43 :l 5 ;45 :2;7 2:l 5 ;
77:10
locally (4)
17 : I 5 ;26:22;57 :22;66:9
located (2)
l9:25;51: l3
logical (1)
66:17
long (7)
26:12;27 :6;3 5 : I I ;41 :2 | ;
42:3,4;74:18
longer (1)
62:8
long-lasting (1)
43:22
look (9)
25 :4 ;3 0 : I 3 ;32:4,25 ;3 4 :2 ;
42:9;47:2,21;63:l
looked (2)
l0:9;31:21
looking (16)
I 0 : 6 ; 17 :23 ;20 :23 ;26 :2,3 ;
27 :8,9 ;28 : I 5 ;3 0 : I | ;3 2 :23 ;
37 :22;38:8;39: I 0, 1 3 ;53 : 14;
7l:l
loop (1)
24:3
lose (l)
53: l0
lose-lose (1)
20:9
losing (3)
40:25;41:l;53:9
mid-C (2)
22:16,18
middle (4)
56:19,21,22;57:6
might (3)
56:20;59:25;60:10
Mike (16)
5 :3 ;6 :25 ;7 :2,2,1 l,l 5 ;9 :21 ;
| 5 :1 8;44:4,6,1 1,22;47 :22;
48:15;58:2,3
million (1)
62:15
mind (3)
9:25;39:21;54:21
mine (1)
l6'.24
Minidoka (2)
5l:14;77:8
minutes (3)
5:23;6:1;16:18
missed (l)
22:3
mitigate (1)
47:16
model (l)
l5: l3
module (1)
72:6
Monday (2)
56:7;63:23
money (14)
7 :21 ;22: l0 ;34:6,1 0,17 ;
35: l8;36: I l,15:54:14;64:13;
7 3 :8;7 4:25 ;7 5 :3 ;7 7 : 19
monopoly (3)
60:1,7;70:16
month (6)
2 | : 6 ;26 : | 0 ;3 8 :23 ;40 : I 8,
l8;68:6
monthty (1)
4l:3
month-to-month (I)
38: l2
Morain (4)
17:6,8,12,13
M-O-R-A-r-N (1)
17:13
more (39)
3 :24;7 :20;8:10, I 5 ;20 : I 8;
2 I : I 0 ;25 :7 ;3 0 :2,2 ;32 : I 0 ;
34: 1,8, I 3, I 9,25;35:l ;36:21 ;
40:9 ;45 :4,6,9,20 ;46 : I 1,24;
49: I 0;53 : l, l, 6;59 :2;62:5,9 ;
66: I 0;68: I 8;69:7,17 ;7 4:10;
77:14,15,17
MORRTS (4)
70: I,5,5,16
M-O-R-R-r-S (1)
70:6
most (8)
7 : I 8 ;32 : I 2 ;37 : I 9,20,24i
38:l;41: l9;51:25
motivation (2)
Hearing
October 27,2022
i1 1i11.[ ;,';i,,1:M & M Court Reporting Service
(208)34s-961 l(ph) [phone] (208)-34s-8800(fax)
(89) Linda - motivation
ll:2
Nordstrom (6)
4:20,22;13:4,7,8,14
normal (1)
5:14
noting (1)
58:5
November (1)
46:14
nunber (5)
I 2: I 9,2 | ;29 : I 7 ;5 6 :23 ;
65:13
numerous (1)
46:15
o
29:23;66:19;78:9
near (1)
l4:7
necessarily (1)
58:l I
necessary (1)
39:2
need (14)
9: I 8 ; I 0:9,20; 16:17 ;27 :12;
3 4: I 8;3 6 :7 ;41 :2,2;48 :23 ;
54: I 8;57: l9;69:3;77 :2
needed (2)
2l:16;43:5
needs (2)
50:4;54:15
negative (4)
59:7;68:6,19;75:20
negligible (1)
64:15
negotiate (2)
60:4,16
neighborhood (2)
27:l;76:3
neighbors (1)
35:5
nephew (1)
74:15
net (21)
I 0:2;l 6:24;20 : 13,l 6;21 :5 ;
22: 6 ;23 : | 4 ;2 5 :25 ;28 : I 7 ;
30: I 5;32: l, I 9 ;34:l I ;37 :18;
48:19 ;49 :17 ;53 :5 ;56:6;
58',22;61:13;69:20
Network (2)
5:l 1;56:13
neutral (I)
34:2
new (12)
| 0 :2,3,20 ;2 I : I 9 ;32 :21 ;
3 6:2;38: | 6;39 : 12;53 :23 ;
54:13:,57:2;65:20
news (1)
54:12
Newton (2)
4:17,18
next (6)
8:7;9:5; l3:16;18:24;
35:19;71:25
nice (l)
39:6
night (1)
64:8
nine (l)
5:2
Nobody (2)
59:15;76:12
nonetheless (1)
28:14
nonprofit (2)
44:25;46:17
non-utility (2)
l4:15;15: l0
Nope (1)
objective (1)
4:9
obtigation (1)
5l:24
obvious (1)
8:3
off (15)
7:20; 1 I : I 8; 19 :8;22:21 ;
26:4,13 ;27 :4,6;5 5 :6,13 ;57 : I ;
64.,2 ;68 : I 5 ;69 : 12 :7 3 : I 0
offer (2)
45: l5;50: l5
oflice (1)
76:7
off-peak (1)
24.,2
offset (2)
19:24;20:17
offsetting (2)
36:5;43:l I
often (4)
5:14;65:l l;66:6,7
oftentimes (1)
54:l I
old (4)
3 I : I 9;46: I 0;63:24;7 4:9
Olsen (1)
5:6
once (5)
5 : | 5 ;6: 5 ;9 :24;l 5 :2;32:l
One (28)
5:4,5;7:5; l4:8; I 5: l3;
I 9 :2 1,25 ;23 : I I ;26 :2 ;30 :21 ;
3 5 :2;3 6 :9 ;39 : | 6;40 : I ;4 I :3,4 ;
43: 19;45:8;53: I 5;56:6;
65 : 17 ;66:2 I ;7 I :20,21 ;7 2: I I ;
73:3;77:6;78:18
ones (1)
7:7
one-way (1)
60:7
only (18)
8: l5; l8: 1,5;26:4,9;36:4;
40:7,13 ;52:2,1 3, I 8;53 :4;
60: I l,l7 ;62: 19 ;6 5 :24;7 3 :8 ;
74:22
In the Matter of Idaho Power Company's Application
to Complete the Study Review Phase. . .
58:25;59:1
motor (l)
52:13
motors (1)
52:8
Mountain (3)
45:5;65:13,14
move (10)
l8:7 ;29 :19 ;36:7;50: I 0;
53 :22;5 8 : I 2,24 ;59 : I ;67 :25 ;
76:1 8
moved (1)
26:l
movement (4)
I 6:25 ;l 7 :3 ;33 :20 ;68 : I 7
moving (5)
49 :5 ;58:l 6;7 5 :2;7 6: l,l 6
much (22)
8 : I ;l 0 :23,24 ;l 3 :3 ;l 7 : 4;
20 : I ;24:7,1 8 ;3 0 :20 :3 I : I 2;
34: I I ;53:6;55:5;59: l0;62:5;
64 : 4 ;66 : I 0 ;7 0 :23 ;7 3 :7,1 7 ;
78:12,17
multiple (1)
4:6
municipal (1)
65:16
municipalities (2)
65: I l;66: I
municipals (1)
65:ll
must (1)
50:5
mutually (1)
l5:12
myself (1)
4:l
On-Site (2)
3:8;45: l6
onto (3)
38:22;61:15;62:5
operated (1)
29:25
operation (1)
2l:7
operations(2)
l2:4;68:4
opinion (1)
22:19
Opportunities (1)
5:3
opportunity (16)
3 :21 ;5 :12;l 5 :20;19 :l I ;
39 :20;44:1 6;48: I 6;6 I : I 7;
62:19 ;67 :3 ;7 2:17,25 ;7 4:19,
22;78:3,6
opposed (1)
53: l8
opposition (1)
72:2
option (4)
2l:9;22:8;40:7;70:18
options (2)
45:15;72:18
order (4)
29:9,16,22;34:18
organization (2)
44:25;45:3
organizations (2)
46:17,18
organized (1)
49:l
others (2)
l9:9;49:19
out (27)
7 : 5 ;l I :2 5 ;22:3 ;23 :24 ;
24:25 ;27 :10 ;30 :l 4,17 ;3 5 :4,
17 ;37 :14;49:23;52: I 0;53 : I I ;
5 6: I 2;60 :4 ;62: | 5,17 ;64:7 ;
65 : I 8;68 : I ;69 :2;7 4: | 4,22;
76:8,13;77:21
outcome (2)
42:.7,8
outdated (1)
2l:l
outs (1)
26:16
outside (2)
23:20;50:12
outweighs (l)
22:21
over (15)
4:17 ;6:4;8:7 ;l 1 :21 ;l 5:l 6;
26 :22 ;3 8 : I 7 ;42 :2,6 ;43 : | 5 ;
48 :2 5 ;6 I :23 ;63 :22,24;68 :22
oversize (1)
20:15
own (13)
8: l9; I 2: I I ;l 5:20;21 :4;
34:6,17 ,24,25;36: l0;56: l0;
Hearing
October 27,2022
N
name (50)
4:2;6 :5,7,8 ;9 : I 2,12;1 0:25 ;
I I :9 ;13 :8,22;l 6:13 ;17 :12,
12;19 :4,17 ;24:19,19 ;25 :l 4;
28:6,6,8;30:23 ;3 1 :9;33 : I 5,
I 7 ;37 : I 0 ;41 : I 5 ;44: I 1,22;
48:6,7;5 1 : l0;55:17,17 ;
57 :19,20;61 :10;63 :20;65 : 5 ;
67 :13 ;69:23;7 0:5;7 I :l 4,14;
7 4:5,5 ;7 5 :16;7 6:7 ;7 7 :3,5
names (2)
7:7;24:10
nation (1)
38:1 8
national (3)
40:3,4;72:7
Nationally (1)
46:15
natural (1)
66:7
Naturally (l)
40:l I
nature (3)
'tii; j -.i;;l M & M Court Reporting Service
(208)34s-961 l(ph) (800)234-e6tt (208)-34s-8800(fax)
(90) motor - own
27:4;39:7;40:9;69:9
payoff(1)
58:21
pays (1)
37:24
peak (1)
24:l
penalized (1)
l5:7
penciled (1)
65:18
peopte (62)
3:18;5:22;7:23;8:24;
1 0: I 6; I I :l 6;13 :6;25 :5;27 :1,
2, I 0, l3;30: I ;32:21 ;35:4,5,7,
8,1 9;36: I ,1,3 ,18;39:22,25;
40:l 6;42:1,10;43 : I 0;5 I : I 5,
2l ;53 :l,l 6;5 4:17 ;56:4,5,6,
20,23 ;5 8 : I 6;60 : I 4,20 ;6 | : I 6,
17,25 ;63 : I 0 ;67 :20 ;68 : I 3 ;
69:17,18;7 0:25 ;73 : I 4, I 8;
7 4:23 ;7 5 :2,21,24;7 6: 1,9,13 ;
77:6,12
people's (1)
52:17
per (6)
I 2:7,8,8;3 8:9,10;62:3
percent (11)
I 4 : I I ;l 9 :20 ;22 :2 ;37 : | 5 ;
38:9,1 5;45: I 3;49:9;50:8;
6l:22;71:24
perfect (1)
38: l3
perfectly (1)
20:21
Perhaps (2)
14:23,25
period (7)
I 5:5;30:9, 12, 14,16,17 ;
58:22
pernitting (1)
l2:5
person (2)
38:l;40:24
personal (2)
56:10;74:ll
personally (1)
zM:18
perspective (1)
I l:16
Peter (1)
5:8
PFANNENSTIEL (7)
24: I l,l l,l 4,20,20,25 ;
42:13
P-F-A-N-N-E-N-S-T-r-E-L (1 )
24:21
Phase (2)
3:7;65:19
phenomenal (1)
42:19
Phillip (l)
49:21
physical (1)
54:9
Pingree (1)
l6:14
pivot (1)
19:25
place (3)
3:4;21:14;51:20
placed (1)
30:6
plan (5)
45 :l 5 ;46: 12;47 :l 5 ;50 :23 ;
67:16
planet (1)
14:10
planned (3)
9:17:40:20;58:3
planning (2)
56:8;66: I I
plans (3)
42:9;45:20;50:9
ptants (2)
8:5;38: l8
play (2)
l7:2;29:24
playing (1)
73:19
pleasant (1)
78:9
please (29)
6:7 ,22;7:9;9:l l;1 I :8,13;
| 4:2 ;l 9 :4;2 I : 1,2 ;22 : 6 ;24 :3,
I 9,23 ;27 :21 ;28 : 5 ;33 :2, I 4 ;
37 :9 ;48:5 ;5 5 :l 6,23;63 :l 4;
69 :2 5 ;7 I :8 ;7 2 :25 ;7 3 :23 ;
75:8;78:19
pleased (2)
26:17;29:4
pleasure (l)
68:5
plenff (r)
58:15
plus (1)
3l:23
pm (1)
78:22
Pocatello (26)
7 :3 ;9 :l 4;l I :21 ;12:4;1 4: 5 ;
26: I ;28 :9 ;29 : I ;33 : I 7,20 ;
3 6 : 1,2,2;44: I 5 ;4 5 :9 ;47 :20 ;
49 : I ;5 5 : I 9 ;57 :23 ;58 : I ;
6l :24;65 :6,9 ;7 4:7,8 ;7 8 : lO
pocket (1)
69:2
podium (1)
7:1
point (20)
4:5;5 :25;6:1,10, I 9; I I :25;
24:2 5 ;26 :9,1 5 ;28 : I 2 ;42 : I I ;
47 :7 ;5 6:25 ;57 :2;58 : I 4;66 :2;
68:7 ;7 4:20;77 :7 ,23
points (1)
17:14
In the Matter of Idaho Power Company's Application
to Complete the Study Review Phase. . .
58:17;59:7;66:13
owner (l)
59:6
Owners (1)
5:ll
M & M Court Reporting Service
(208)34s-961 l(ph) [phone] (208)-34s-8800(fax)
Hearing
October 27,2022
poticy (1)
5l:17
polite (1)
5:21
pondering (1)
27:24
populations (1)
72:10
porch (l)
63:25
Portneuf(3)
44.,21,23;45:23
possible (4)
8:7;21:2;23:13;47 :7
potential (1)
43:2
potentially (3)
68:l'l;69:15;74:21
Power (155)
3 :6;4:20;6:9;7: 3 ;8 : I 5, I 9;
9: l5; l0:6,7; 1 l:12;13:25;
l4: 10,14, 14,16, l7; I 5: I 1,15,
2l ;l 6:1 5,19,22;17 :13,16,25;
I 8:4,9 ;l 9 :7 ;20 : I 0 ;21 : 4,25 ;
22 :2 ;23 :21 ;24 :21 ;25 : 1,23,
24;26:24;27 :2.9;28: 8;3 I : I 5,
I 6;32:1 4 ;33 :17,22,25 ;3 4 : 1,4,
I 6,17 ;3 5 :2,12,24 ;37 : I 1,13,
I 6;38:7,1 4,17,23,25 ;39 :3,8,
9,1 4,24 ;40 :7,1 4;4 | : I 6,22;
42 :4,1 7,23 ;43 : 1,8,21,24 ;
M: I 2,17 ;46 :2,4,9,25 ;47 : I 4 ;
48 : I 0, I 1,18,22,25 ;5 I :l l,l2;
52: l2,l 5 ;53 : I 4,17,19,20;
5 5 :21,22;5 6:l l,l3 ;57 :5,22;
58 : I 3 ;59:4;60 :1,2,3,4,5,6,8,
| 0,12,13,17,19,25 ;61 : I | ;
62:3,1 8,1 9 ;63 :21,25 ;6 4 :3,20,
20 ;6 5 : 6,1 3,1 4 ;66 :9,1 3,22 ;
67 :l 4,25 ;68 :21 ;7 0 :6,1 6,20,
23 ;7 I :3,1 5;7 2:2,16;7 3 :5,6,
l8;7 6:12,17 ;7 7 :12,13,1 4,1 5,
l8
powered (1)
8:10
powers (1)
52:19
Power's (19)
3 : I 4 ;6 : | 0 ;7 :24 ;8 : 8,24 ;
20 :7 ;22: I 4 ;28 : I 5 ;32: 5 ;
34:24;38:6;45 : I 3, 14, I 8;
49 : I 5 ;5 0 :7 ;5 6 :9 ;6 5 :20,23
practice (2)
14:25;65:9
practices (1)
29:20
PRATT (3)
65:1,5,5
PRC (7)
44:25 ;4 5 :2,5,20 ;46 :9 ;47 : l,
t2
PRC's (1)
45:7
P
pack (1)
8:4
page (2)
23:19,19
paid (4)
7:20;12:9;20: I 5;28: l9
panel (3)
52:2;56:24;64:15
paneling (1)
52:22
panels (15)
7 : 17,24,25 ;8 : I 3,20 ;l 4 : 6 ;
26 : 5 ;27 :3,12;29 : I 6 ;49 :2,8,
11,23;63:23
parents (1)
19:18
part (14)
7 : 18;10 :21 ;12:13 ;l 6:21,
25 ;17 :2;20 :7 ;3 4:3 ;37 : I 5 ;
47 : I l,l 6;5 4: I ;64:22;69 :6
participant (I)
58:l
participate (2)
56:24;69:18
participating (1)
56:5
participation (1)
2l:19
particular (3)
49:21:52:8:54:3
particularly (1)
49:7
parties (3)
4:5,15;47:5
partner (1)
I l:17
parts (1)
l2:15
party (1)
66:21
pass (1)
67:25
passed (1)
54:1 3
past (5)
3 :22 ;27 : 5 ;60 :22;6 5 : I 9 ;
68:7
pay (14)
23 :3 ;26:ll,l3 ;27 :6;32:1 5;
39: 1,9;43 : I 8 ; 58:19;64:2;
68:10,15;69:1;73: l2
payback (8)
I 5 :5;35 : I I ;53:5,21;54:6;
62:8;68:17;69:12
payrng (4)
(91) owner - PRCrs
PTJRPA (1)
20:22
purported (l)
22:22
purpose (3)
3:12;4:15;8:23
purposes (1)
39:24
pursue (1)
56:16
push (7)
40 : 5 ;5 4 : I 4 ;67 :20,21 ;7 2 :3,
l4;73:6
pushing (2)
54:20;72:8
put (35)
3 : 19 ;l 5 :4;21 : I 3 ;23 :24 ;
2'l :12;28:2;29: 8;30: I I ;33 : l,
18,23 ;34:5,7,16;3 5:10,16,17 ;
3 6:3,17 ;43 :l ;5 I :19 ;52',2,1 4,
17,22;53 :6;54: 8;6 I : I 5, I 9;
62: 4 ;63 :23 ;68 : I ;'l 3 : 12,l 6 ;
77:19
puts (1)
40:6
putting (1)
53:22
a
quality (1)
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In the Matter of Idaho Power Company's Application
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Hearing
October 27,2022
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In the Matter of Idaho Power Company's Application
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October 27,2022
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tie (r)
In the Matter of Idaho Power Company's Application
to the Study Review Phase. . .
street (2)
27:l;60:8
strengthens (1)
62:21
strong (2)
48:17;62:13
strongly (1)
50:7
structure (4)
I 4: I 7 ;20 : I 3 ;32 :9 ;69 :20
struggling (1)
58:18
stuck (1)
68:1 0
studied (2)
37:19;47:18
studies (9)
I 0 :8 ;23 :25 ;37 :20 i46 :4,7,9,
15,18;47:4
Study (38)
3 :7,8;14:19,20; I 9: I 3 ;
20 : | 4 ;22: l2,l 4 ;23 : I 8 ;2 5 : l,
7,1 0 ;28 : I 5 ;3 6:22;40 :22 ;
42: l2,l 4,1 6,17,19 ;44:17 ;
45 :22,23 ;46 :4,5,1 1,2 1,25 ;
47 :8,1 2;5 8 :4,1 3 ;62: 1,3,2 5 |
63:4;66:13,21
stuff(5)
20 :2 I ;29 :25 ;7 I :19 ;7 4: | 6,
t7
subject (1)
40:l
submit (5)
9: I 6, I 9; I 0:20;45 :20;46:13
submitted (3)
3:22;58:7,8
succeed (1)
39:25
successful (2)
23:5;33:21
sucks (1)
7l:3
sullicient (1)
30:24
sum (1)
23:ll
summer (5)
I 0 : I 4;2 6 : 1 5 ;32 : I I ;43 :2 ;
49''22
summers (1)
8:4
summertime (1)
32:15
supply (1)
40:3
support (9)
9 :22;45 : 17 ;48:17 ;50 :7 ;
5 I : I 6;52: l2:,5 6:9 ;62: 18 ;68 :2
supported (1)
l4:18
supporters (l)
45:6
supporting (2)
52:21
tied (1)
22:15
timeliness (2)
54:1,21
times (6)
30: l6;54: l0;57 :25;58:15;
64:3;75:25
Timothy (2)
57:12,14
T-r-M-O-T-rr-Y (1)
57:21
today (3)
ll:19;41:20;42:10
together (2)
l5:l l,l7
told (1)
25:2
Tom (1)
5:5
tonight (19)
3 :24 ;4:20 ;5 :23 ;6 : I 2 ;l 9 :9,
I 2 ;3 5 :23 ;4 I : I 9 ;44 :20 ;45 :2 I ;
46 :23 ;48 : I 6 ;49 :20 ;57 :3 ;
62:23 ;63 :12;67: I 8;78: 5, I 6
Tonight's (1)
4:9
took (1)
74:15
top (2)
l2: l0;58: l4
topic (1)
5l: l8
tops (1)
66:4
total (3)
5:3;12:19;22:2
totally (1)
36:1 8
tough (1)
58:23
toward (1)
50:10
towards (5)
I 6:25 ;3 6:1 6;53 :24;5 4: I 4,
15
trade (1)
22:21
tradeoffs (1)
22:12
transcript (1)
6: l3
transition (3)
8:6,8,16
transmission (2)
23:22;66:ll
transportation (1)
62:17
Travis (1)
63:10
tree (1)
49:15
trend (1)
Hearing
October 27,2022
Itiiii=E ,{c1 ipi ri M & M Court Reporting Service
(208)34s-961 I Gh) [phone] (208)-34s-8800(fax)
(95) street - trend
| 4:l 8;24: | ;46: 5,1 6,19 ;
47 :4,6 ;62 : 1,2,4,24;63 :4 ;
66:1 5
valued (1)
60:l I
values (3)
23:23;46:8;65:22
valuing (1)
23:23
variant (l)
23:23
vehicles (4)
8: I 6;40:5 ;50: I I ;62:20
versus (1)
46:24
Virginia (4)
25:15,17 ,21;27:14
visit (1)
54:5
voDER(7)
20 : I 4;22 : | 2;23 : I 8 ;44: 17 ;
45,,22;46:4,25
VODERTS (1)
l9: l3
voice (2)
5l: l6;70: l9
voided (1)
22:20
voluntarily (1)
48:24
vote (3)
9:l;34:22;36:20
voter's (1)
l4:19
w
underlying (1)
4:10
unethical (1)
l4:25
unfair (1)
73:20
unfortunate (1)
68: l2
unfortunately (1)
40: l5
United (1)
l5:9
University (4)
28:23,24;29:1;50:22
University's (1)
50:9
unless (1)
73:9
unnecessary (1)
20:12
unoflicial (l)
77:13
unpersuasive (1)
2l:20
unpredictable (l)
38:20
up (33)
3 :18;6:23 ;7 :l;8 : I 1 ;20:7;
23 :7 ;34:5 ;3 5:l 7;3 8 : I 0, I 9;
3 9 : 4,9 ;4 | :4 ;43 :4 ;4 6 :2 5 ;50 :2 ;
52: 18 ;57 :25 ;58 :25 ;63 : I l,l2:'
66 : 5 ;67 :4,6,7,1 6;7 0 :23 ;7 I :3,
4;72:9;76:8,11,20
upon (1)
62:22
urge (1)
36:20
use (5)
I 6 : I 9 ;20 : I 7,23 ;52 : 6 ;59 : 5
used (8)
I 4 :24 ;23 : I 0,1 6 ;26 :2 I ;
35:15;46:7,10,1I
users (l)
48:23
using (3)
22:19:.29:16;34:25
usually (1)
5: l5
Utah (l)
76:l
Utilities (4)
4:7;15:10,14;41:25
utility (10)
8 :22,23 ;l 4 :22;l 5 :7 ;6 I :2 | ;
62:12,14;7 6:15 ;7 7 :9,10
Utilizing (1)
66:8
v
vacation (l)
12:10
value (13)
w-2 (2)
l2:2,3
WADA (7)
l6:5,5 ,8,12,14,14,17
W-A-D-A (1)
l6:14
Wade (l)
l6:3
wage (1)
12:8
wages (3)
l2:7,10;43:18
waiting (4)
| 0 : | 6 ;22 : 5 ;27 :24;5 6 :2 I
wants (4)
3 5 :2;39 :14;47 : I ;78: I 9
warehousing (1)
l2:6
wash (1)
8:22
wasted (1)
20:19
watched (1)
49:13
water (6)
8:2,5;45:l ;52:6;53 :8,9
In the Matter of Idaho Power Company's Application
to Complete the Study Review Phase. . .
65:22
trimming (1)
49:16
trip (1)
ll:21
TRIPP (4)
63:13,16,20,20
T-R-r-P-P (1)
63:21
Trissa (4)
17:6,8,121'18:21
true (2)
23:8;68:22
truth (28)
7: 12;9:8;1 I :5;13: l9;16:9;
17 :9 ;19 :1 ;24:l 5 ;25 : I 8;
27 :l 8;3 I :5 ;33 :l I ;37 :6;
4l :l I ;44:7 ;48:2;5 I :6;55 :9;
57: I 5;59: I 9;6 l:7 ;63:17 ;
65:2;67 :10;70:2;7 l:ll:'7 4:2;
75:13
try (3)
5:25;6:23:60:5
trying (12)
23 : I ;32 :22 ;33 :22 ;42 : I I ;
49 :23 ;67 :20 ;7 2:3,7 6 ;7 4 : I 4,
15,20,23
turn (3)
L0:7;62:10;77 :18rv (1)
64:l
twice (1)
5: l5
two (8)
l8:l;21:12:23:13;28:12;
29:5;54:8;69:7;77:l
two-week (1)
18:6
tyrng (l)
l9: l5
TYLER(3)
65:1,5;67:l
typically (1)
37:24
TYSON (2)
74:1,5
U
ultimately (1)
23:3
unable (1)
2l:10
unacceptable (1)
l4: l3
unbenelicial (1)
67:19
uncertainty (l)
23:3
Uncoupling (l)
23:2
Under (4)
5 :13 ;37 :25 :53 :7 ;68:14
way (14)
8: I 7; I 5:5, I 8;23:18;33:24;
3 4 :2 ;3 6 : I 5 ;39 :1 4;40 : I 3 ;
45 :18;49:5;54: I 8 ;6 I :23 ;
74:25
ways (4)
19:14;36:9,9;77:17
weather (1)
26:17
week (1)
56:17
weekend (1)
56:7
weeks (1)
l8:1
weight (1)
28:3
welcome (7)
3 :25 ;4:21 ;7 : I 5 ;47 :24;
77:l;78:10,13
wells (2)
52:1,9
weren't (2)
43:4;58:8
WESLEY (2)
70:1,5
west (1)
8:2
Western (2)
45:2,4
whafs (3)
l0:15;38: l5;64: l2
wheat (1)
l9: l9
whereas (1)
63:22
Whitesides (1)
51:13
whole (2)
37:18;74:8
wholesale (3)
46:24;65:15,21
wholly (1)
9:22
wife (1)
7:17
wildlife (1)
8:12
willing (3)
36:10;42:7;68:16
Wind (2)
57:24;59:24
wiring (1)
52:21
wish (2)
3:24;67:5
wishes (2)
63:12;67:3
within (3)
ll:16;50:12;76:9
without (1)
l2:23
witness (3)
Hearing
October 27,2022
'iiill.i '.,1 1 i,1r ;,M & M Court Reporting Service
(208)34s-e61 l(ph) [phone] (208)-34s-8800(fax)
(96) trimming - witness
25-kilowatt (l)
48:20
2$-year (2)
48:21;68:8
27 (r)
70:8
3
3 (4)
28:17 ;30:15;62:3 ,24
3,000 (t)
l9: l9
3.8 (1)
42:16
30 (2)
3:15:'71:24
300 (3)
38:15;45:6;52:12
30-year (1)
68:8
37 (1)
45:4
4
4 (3)
28:17;30:15;46:14
400 (1)
52:13
5
s0 (2)
42:10;45:5
2l;61:14;62:5;64:14
l0 (4)
30: I 5;38: I 5;48:25;7 I :25
100 (14)
I 4:1 I ;19 :20;29 : I 4;30: 6;
38:17 ;45 :13 ;49: 8;50:7, I 6;
52:3,7,14,18;61:21
lO0-kilowatt (8)
20 :3,9,1 1 ;21 :2;23 : | 2;
28:21;29:6;48:20
103 (1)
12:2
11 (1)
38:9
120 (l)
37:14
13 (1)
17:16
133 (1)
52:7
14 (r)
30:15
1s (2)
22:l;28:22
1s0 (1)
52:9
16 (r)
46:23
18 (4)
46:23;62:2,24;74:15
18,000 (1)
45:4
18.3 (l)
42:18
1e.67 (t)
l2:8
6
2
6 (1)
3:10
6:00 (r)
3:4
63 (1)
37:15
7
7 (1)
45:4
7:46 (t)
78:22
700 (r)
52:10
76 (r)
3l: l9
77 (t)
l2:3
8
2 (2)
64:5,14
20 (3)
22:l;43:16;69:l
20- (1)
68:8
20O-kilowatt (l)
19:23
20te (6)
17 :24;19 :23 :41 :24;45 :9 ;
49:18;68:7
2022 (t)
3:15
2023 (4)
21:5;22:7 ,10;23:14
202s (t)
8:9
204s (6)
I 4:1 I ;33 :25 ;45 : I 4;50: 8 ;
59:4;61:22
2s (3)
48: l4;50: l6;74:8
2s0 (1)
42:l
8 (3)
3:10;49:2,8
80 (1)
In the Matter of Idaho Power Company's Application
to Complete the Study Review Phase. . .
Hearing
October 27,2022
5:13;6:20,24
woRC (2)
45:3,3
word (1)
35:15
words (3)
20:8;42:13;43:14
work (15)
I I : I 6;12:24:1 5 : I l,l7 ;
I 6:22;17 :l 4;18 : I 9;43 : 1 5 ;
49 :10;68:3 ;7 0:7 ;7 4:6,1 4;
76:7,14
worked (1)
7:19
working (6)
l2:1,2;37 :13 ;7 0:10;7 4:17 ;
75:23
workshops (l)
4:6
world (3)
32:25:67:23;76:22
worth (l)
58:5
Wow (1),o.')
writing (1)
52:14
written (8)
3 :21,25;9 :15,1 6, I 9; I 0: I 9,
20;46:13
wrong (3)
10:25;32:5;40:23
45: l0
800 (l)
42:2
84 (2)
3:10;21:19
9
e (1)
38:9
Y
year (8)
22: I ;38:4,6,7,19 ;49 : I 2;
54:9;71:19
years (28)
7 :18,20;9:15:,1 7: I 6,1 8;
2l :12;26:1,6;3 I :17,19,20;
32:8 ;33 : 19,20 ;3 4 : 13 ;48: | 4,
25 ;5 4 :3,7,8 ;64: 12;68:22,23 ;
69 :8 ;7 | :25 ;7 2:12;7 3 :4;7 4:9
Young (8)
18:24,25 ;19 :6,6,17 ;36: | ;
63:22;75:2
Y-O-U-N-G (r)
19:6
younger (l)
74:23
Young's (1)
4l:21
zero (1)
49:12
I (e)
26:4,10;48: I 8,1 8;58:21 ,
Z
1
M & M Court Reporting Service
(208)34s-96r l(ph) [phone] (208)-34s-8800(fax)
(97) WORC - 9
REPORTER' S CERTITICATE
l, dIANET L. FRENCH, CSR NO. 945, Cert,ified
Shorthand Reporter, eertify:
That the foregoing proceedings were taken before me
at the time and place therein set forth, at which time the
witness was put under oath by me;
that the testimony and all objections made were
recorded Btenographically by me and were thereafter
transcribed by mer or under my direction;
That the foregoing is true and correct record of
all testimony given, to the best of my ability;
I further certify that I am not a relative or
employee of any attorney or party, nor am I financially
interested in the action.
IN WITNESS WHEREOF, I set my hand and seal this
16th day of November 2022
L. FRENCH, CSR NO. 946L.
ry Public
P.O. Box 2636
Boise, Idaho 83701-2636
My Commission expires LL|S/2028OF