20211105Public Hearing Transcript Vol I.pdf

BETORE THE IDAHO PUBLIC UTILITIES COMMISSION
IN THE MATTER OF IDAHO POWER
COMPANY'S APPLICATION TO INITTATE
A MULTI-PHASE COLLABORATIVE
PROCESS FOR THE STUDY OF COSTS,
BENETITS, AND COMPENSATION OE NET
EXCESS ENERGY ASSOCIATED WITH
CUSTOMER ON-SITE GENERATION
CASE NO. IPC-E-2L-21,
TELEPHONIC HEARING
BEFORE
COMMISSIONER PAUL KJELLANDER (Presiding)
COMMISSIONER KRISTINE RAPER
COMMISSIONER ERIC ANDERSON
e f\{€,:ferC5 ,eJ;{* lTirc)(Jl !"n
:[ rBr\, {3
h!
PLACE:Commission Conference Room
11331 West Chinden BIvd.Building 8, Suite 201-ABoise, Idaho
"-9t*"I
{}JglDLffil
COC}*bxrDATE:October 28, 2027
VOLUMET-Pagesl-29
CSB REPORTING
C ertifu d S h ort h on d Rep o rter s
Post Office Box9774
Boise,Idatro 83707
csbreportin [e-mail]
Ph: 208-890-5198 Fax: l-888-623-6899
Reporter:
Constance Bucy,
CSR
ORIGINAL
1
2
3
4
5
6
1
8
9
10
11
L2
13
L4
15
L6
L1
18
19
20
2L
22
23
24
CSB REPORTING
208.890.5198
APPEARANCES
Eor the Staff:Erick Shaner, Esq.
Deputy Attorney General
11331 West Chinden B1vd.Building 8, Suite 20L-A
PO Box 83720Boise, Idaho 83720-0074
For Idaho Power Company:(Of Record)
Lisa Nordstrom
Idaho Power Company
PO Box 10
Boise, Idaho 83707-0070
For Industrial- Customersof Idaho Power:(Of Record)
RICHARDSON,
by Peter ,J.
PO Box 12!8
Boise, Idaho
ADAMS, PLLC
Richardson
837 02
For Idahydro:(Of Record)
ARKOOSH LAW OFFICES
by Ton Arkoosh
PO Box 2900
Boise, Idaho 83701
For Idaho Conservati-on
League:(Of Record)
Benjamin J. Otto
Idaho Conservation League
710 N. 6th Street
Boise, Idaho 83102
For Idaho Clean Energy
Associatlon:(Of Record)
Kevin King
Idaho Clean Energy
Association
PO Box 2264
Bo j-se, Idaho 837 02
25
APPEARANCES
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
I
9
10
11
L2
13
L4
15
L6
L7
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
CSB REPORTING
208 .8 90 . 5198
A P P E A R A N C E S (Continued)
Eor Clean Energy
Opportunities for Idaho:(Of Record)
Michael Heckler
Courtney White
Clean Energy Opportunitiesfor Idaho Inc.
3118 Plantation River DriveSulte 702Boise, Idaho 83703
-and-
Kelsey ilae
Law for Conscious Leadership
920 N. Cl-over Drive
Boise, Idaho 83703
(Of Record)
Eor Idaho Solar Owners
Network:(Of Record)
Joshua EiII
Idaho So1ar Owners Network
L625 S. Latah
Boise, Idaho 83705
For Micron Technology,
Inc.:(Of Record)
HOLLAND & HART LLP
Austin Rueschhoff
Thorvald Nelson
Austin Jensen
555 17th Street, Suite 3200
Denver, Colorado 80202
Eor City of Boise:(Of Record)
Ed ilewell
Deputy City Attorney
Boise City Attorneyrs Office
l-05 North Capitol BIvd.
PO Box 500
Boise, Idaho 83701--0500
For Kiki Lesl-ie A. Tidwell,pro se:(Of Record)
Kiki LesJ.ie TidweII, pro se
704 N. River StreetSuite #1Hailey, Idaho 83333
25
APPEARANCES
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
I
9
10
11
L2
13
L4
15
L6
77
18
19
20
2L
22
23
24
CSB REPORTING
208.890.s1_98
A P P E A R A N C E S (Continued)
Eor Idaho Irrigation
Pumpers Association:(Of Record)
Eric L. Olsen
Echo Hawk & Ol-sen PLLC
505 Pershing Avenue
Suite 100
PO Box 6L79Pocatello, Idaho 83205
For Richard E. Kluckhohn,pro se and Wesl-ey A.
Kluckhohn, pro se:(Of Record)
Richard E. Kluckhohn, pro
Wesley A. Kluckhohn, pro
2564 W. Parkstone Dri-veMeridian, Idaho 83646
SC
SE
For
(of
ABC Power Company,
Record)
LLC:Ryan BushLand
ABC Power Company, LLC
184 W. Chrisfield DriveMeridian, ldaho 83646
Eor(of Comet Energy, LLC:
Record)
George Stanton
Comet Energy, LLC
13601 W. McMillan RoadSuite L02
PMB 166Boise, Idaho 83713
Eor(of Idahome Solar, LLC:
Record)
Tyler Grange
Idahome So1ar, LLC
2484 N. Stokesberry Place
Sui-te #100Meridian, Idaho 83646
25
APPEARANCES
1_
2
3
4
5
6
7
B
9
10
11
L2
13
1,4
15
21
22
15
l7
1.8
19
2A
23
24
CSB REPORTING
208. 890.5198
INDEX
I/[ITNESS EXAMINATION BY PAGE
Anne Herndon
( Public)
Statement 7
Cliff Ke1ley
( Public)
Statement 11
Jane Chandler
( Public)
Statement t4
Lisa YounE
( Public)
Statement L7
AIex McKinley
( Public)
Statement 27
Daniel De1 Grande
( Public)
Statement 24
25
INDEX
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
I
9
10
11
72
13
74
15
L6
L1
18
t9
20
21
22
Z5
24
CSB REPORTTNG
208.890. s198
1
BOISE, IDAHO, THURSDAY,OCTOBER 28, 202L, 6:00 P. M
COMMISSIONER KJELLANDER:Well-, good
a public hearing
as in the
evening. This is the time and place for
in Case No. IPC-E-27-27, also referred to
matter of Idaho Power Company's application to initiate a
multi-phase collaborative for the study of costs,
benefits, and compensation
process
for net excess energy
associated with customer on-site generation.
testimony
public i-n
The purpose of this hearing is to take
and relevant comments from members of the
reference filing with
the Commission that
to Idaho Power Company's
was fil-ed on June Z9th,202L. My
name is Paul Kjellander. Irm the Chair of tonight's
proceedings and I'm joined by Commlssioners Kristine
Raper and Eric Anderson. Again, tonight's objective is
to get live public testimony on the official record for
this case.
We have a court reporter who is helping us
deveJ-op a transcript that wil] be added to the underlying
record of this case. Upon the close of the official
record, the three members of the Commission wil-l- review
the facts and evidence in this case and issue a final-
decision, so let's start tonight and the way I I 1I begin25
COLLOQUY
1
2
3
4
5
6
1
B
9
10
11
72
13
t4
15
76
11
1B
19
20
21,
22
23
24
CSB REPORTING
208.890.5198
2
is by recognizing the official- intervenors
this case. It is typical for us during a
from thepublic hearing to actually hear
intervenors and parties to the case, but
techno.l-ogical considerations that we have
or parties to
l-ive, in-person
individual
given the
associated wi-th
instead is Ithe telephonic conference, what
will simply reference the names
we'l-I do
of the parties and who
they represent or who they're represented by so
can get that officially in the record.
I also want to note that two of
that we
the
counsel for two of the intervenors have requested
legaJ-
that
they be allowed to, if necessary to, cross-examj-ne public
witnesses, not expert witnesses but public witnesses,
that they be al-Iowed to have that opportunity, and what I
intend to do is to yes, allow you that opportunity;
however, I'm not going to go through at the end of each
witness and say is there cross-examinatj-on.
The Commissj-oners have also agreed not to
cross-examine witnesses or ask additional- questions,
again, with the j-ntent being trying to get public comment
on the record officialJ-y since that's the reason and
purpose that we're here; however, for those two members
of the 1e.ga1 community who want to feave that option
open, what you'11 need to do is merely at the appropriate
tj-me to quickly intervene, interrupt me, and proceed with25
COLLOQUY
1
2
3
4
5
6
1
8
9
10
11
t2
13
14
15
t6
L7
18
1_9
20
21-
22
23
24
CSB REPORTING
208.890.5198
3
your question, and if I do not hear from you, I will go
ahead and move on to the next public witness, so with
that said, Iet me go through just the parties of the
case.
Representing Idaho
Lisa Nordstrom. Commission Staff
counsef from the Deputy Attorney
is Erick Shaner. We also have as
Power Company, we
is represented by
General's Office.
have
legaI
That
one the parties the
is representedIndustrial Customers of Idaho Power which
by Peter Richardson. V[e have Idahydro with Tom Arkoosh;
Idaho Conservation League, Benjamin Otto; the Idaho Cl-ean
Energy Association with Kevj-n King; the Clean Energy
Opportunities which is Mj-chae1 Heckler, Courtney White,
and aLso Kelsey Jae. We then have Idaho Solar Owners
Network, Joshua Hill; Micron Technology, there we see Jim
I'm sure that ISwi-er and Austin Rueschhoff
mispronounced that, I apologize, Austin Thorval-d
Nel-son and Austin Jensen who are with Holl-and & Hart.
We have with the City of Boise Ed Jewell.
We have pro se Kiki Leslie A. Tidwel-I. We have the Idaho
Irrigation Pumpers
Richard Kluckhohn
Association with Eric 01sen. We have
and Wesley Kluckhohn,pro se; ABC Power
We have Cometby Ryan Bushland.
Stanton. We have So1ar, LLC,
list of
Company represented
LLC, George IdahomeEnergy,
Tyler Grange, and as you notice from the long25
COLLOQUY
I
2
3
4
5
6
1
8
9
10
11
L2
13
t4
15
76
71
18
19
20
27
22
23
24
CSB REPORTING
208 .8 90 . 5198
4
j-ntervenors and parties, you might recognize why it was
that I intended to move forward quickly without a lot of
opportunity to go through
cross-examination, so with
and find out if people had
that said, I think we're ready
to move forward with the instructions for this evening.
Again, as I referenced, tonight is a
telephonic hearing. We have two separate telephone lines
for participants.
testify, the number
to enter a participant code
667 4832#, and for those who
j-nstructions r so here t s
eveni-ng: When you hear
saying 208 since the
Eor those who want to be sworn in to
is [phone] and
to testify and
simply want to
you'11 be asked
that code is
l-isten in and
do not intend to be sworn in to testify, the number to
caII is aLso [phone] . You'l-1 be asked to enter a
participant code, which is 9817951#. Make sure, please
make sure, that you enter in the correct code to help us
avoid unnecessary delays and if you do not intend to
testi-fy, please use code 6614832# [sic]r so the reason I
say that is if you've call-ed in to the other line, which
is one in which you would be testifying for, but you
don't wish to testify, hang up, redi-al that 800 number
and then enter in the code 661 4832#.
A11 right, so those
how we'II
your phone
what's the
are the general
move forward this
number and I won't be
other area code, 986?25
COLLOQUY
1
2
3
4
q
6
7
8
9
10
11
72
13
L4
15
L6
L1
1B
79
20
2L
22
23
24
CSB REPORTING
208.890.5198
5
We don't have a whole lot of t.hose out there
your name and have
have a 208, I believe,
yet, so
this
the last digits of your phone
We wil-l- thenthat, we'lI unmute.
the record and how we wil-l- do that
you spell your last name.
then we'l-l- ask if you are
everybody
evenr-ng,
number.
j.s going
but I'l-f
When you
offlcially
to
give
hear
onget
is
you
ask
We'lI
you
ask
a customer
your address and
Idaho Power.
you
of
First off,
hear is I'11-
just mentioned,
l-ast name, ask
though,
ask youwhat you'11
to provide
to that is
wil-l-, ds I
that
truthful- testimony.
I do or I wil-l and at
I will- swear you j-n and
if you swear or affirm
The appropriate response
that point, then, I
your name and have you
address, and then you
of ldaho Power. Now,
ask you
you your
customer
speIl
wilI be asked if you're a
once you're officially on the record, you wi-11 then be
asked to give us your statement.
As we noticed up in
we've kicked out and orders and the
all- the notices that
press releases is
that it i-s our
to five minutes
reason for that
the list right
all night long
this proceedJ-ng,
intent to try
each. Just
and limit public testimony
to l-et you a1I know, the
is ten-fold: We have several-
now and it's not our intent to
to get
which
testimony on the narrow
is to get your thoughts
people on
try to stay
scope of
and ideas25
COLLOQUY
1
2
3
4
5
6
1
I
9
10
11
L2
13
74
15
16
l1
18
19
20
27
22
23
24
CSB REPORTING
208 .890.5198
6
as it relates to what needs to be incl-uded in the study,
so if we could kind of keep everything along those 1j-nes,
I think we'11 move through this quickly and that will
help the Commission as we move forward in developing this
record, so we do j-ntend to impose a five-minute limit.
A1so, though, if you feel- that you have
not had sufficient ti-me to articulate all of your
comments and concerns verballyr we do encourage you to
provide additional written testimony and you can find the
information on how to do that on our website as weIIr so
wlth that, I believe that we are ready for our first
public witness and with thatr we will go to the caller
I'm going to go ahead and just read the whole number on
that because it is apparently not a 208 area code, So
1et's go for it here. It is (386) 3L4-8474, so I belj-eve
we have that unmuted and is the caller there?
(386) 3L4-8474, is the caller there? You have a mute on
your end.
Okay, so we will not hang up on you.
Instead what we wil-1 do is we'II move on to the next
caller and we may
double check and
come back to
see
you a
thereif maybe
so werll
l-ittle later just to
was a technical
glitch on your
(208) 31'7-8'76-t.
end,move to the next ca11er,
[phone], is the caller there?
AUDfENCE: Yeah, can you hear me?25
COLLOQUY
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
I
9
10
11
72
13
t4
15
16
71
1B
19
20
27
22
23
24
CSB REPORTING
208 .8 90 . 5198
COMMISSIONER KJELLANDER: f can. It's
very good and f'm glad to hear you. That means that our
system is working and we certainly appreciate it. Thank
you very much. Can I get you sworn in first?
AUDIENCE: Yeah, before I sLart, I just
want to say my service isn't that. greatr so if it cuts
out, I'11 submit my written comments and then you can
just skip through the cut-out if that makes sense.
COMMISSIONER KJELLANDER: Okay. hlell, it
does make sense and so far you sound pretty good, so I
think werre on the right track, so let me begin my
swearing you in.
appearr_ng as
was exami-ned
ANNE HERNDON,
a public witness, having been duly sworn,
and testified as follows:
COMMISSIONER KJELLANDER: Let's start
first by getting your name. What's your first name and
last name and could you spe11 your last name?
THE WITNESS: Anne Herndon,
H-e-r-n-d-o-n,
COMMISSIONER KJELLANDER: A11 right and
we've got that, and your address, please.
THE WITNESS: 6110 Bay Street, Boise,
1 HERNDON
PubIic
25
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
T4
15
1-6
L7
18
19
20
27
22
23
24
CSB REPORTING
208.890. s198
I HERNDON
PubIic
Idaho.
COMMISSIONER KJELLANDER: Thank you, and
are you a customer of Idaho Power?
THE WITNESS: Yes.
COMMISSIONER KJELLANDER: Thank you.
Wel-l, werve got you offlcially on the record and if you
cou1d, please offer us your statement.
THE WITNESS: Thank you for this
opportunity to comment. f support the proposal-s of the
intervenors in this case and I urge the PUC to develop a
study framework based on their recommendatj-ons. I wish
to highlight the following sentence in the September 30,
2021, initial framework to study documents: "The study
framework does not represent agreement by all parties on
what should be included in the final study framework. "
Upon reviewing the documents, it. seems
obvious that Idaho Power's proposed design eJ-ements are
far from agreement with those of the intervenors. I will
mention a few of the comments provi-ded by the intervenors
that are especially
definitely need to
framework. No. !,
signi-ficant and, therefore,
be included in the final study
a neutral party should
Energy Po1icy Institute
Idaho National Lab.
the study design should J-ncorporate
conduct the
at Boise Statestudy, such as the
University or the
No.Z ,25
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
t2
13
L4
15
76
t7
18
19
20
2L
22
23
24
CSB REPORTING
208.890. 5198
9
methods identified by
conducted to determlne
generation. The Idaho
Iist of such studles.
recent studies that have been
the value of sol-ar energy
League has provided a
credits should never
Conservation
expire. They belong
on environmental and
the beginning of the
hidden on page 15 as
far more detail than
No. 3 , export
customer.to the
other benefits needs to appear at
study framework rather than being
a side i-ssue. This section needs
No. 4, the sectj-on
the brief mention provided in Idaho
Power's proposal.
Accordi-ng to the Commission's Order No.
34509, "The Company must prepare and file a credible and
fair study on the costs and benefits of distributed
on-site generation to the Companyrs system." Idaho
Power's proposed framework dedicates plenty of effort to
studying costs, but does hardly anything to address
benefits. A1I of the intervenors' proposals for this
section need to be included in the study.
As a final note, I'm confused about the
review process. If I understood the panel correctly at
the workshop on Tuesday, the Commission wil-l deliberate
after the comment peri-od cl-oses on November 30th and
proceed to issue a final order. Then phase two would
begin, which is the
ile, because there is
actuaf study. This seems unfair to
no opportunity for concerned parties
HERNDON
Publ-ic
25
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
I
9
to revi-ew or comment on the Commission's study framework.
I believe the Commission should publish a
draft of their proposed framework and provide a period
for all parties to submit comments on this draft. After
consideration of these comments in final delj-beration,
the Commission can modify the draft, if necessary, before
issuing the final order. Inserting an opportunity to
comment on the Commission's version of the framework
before it becomes final will help to produce a study that
is credible, fair, and able to del-iver valid results.
Thank you.
COMMISSIONER KJELLANDER: Thank you and we
appreciate your testimony.
(The witness left the stand. )
COMMISSIONER KJELLANDER: Why don't we try
one more time with the phone No. (386) 3L4-8474. Is the
call-er there? Okay, same resultr So we'11- move on and
the next cal-ler we have, I believe we have a name
identified with it, but I'11 go ahead and go with the
number. It is [phone] and I belj-eve that belongs
to Cliff Ke11ey. Is the caller there?
AUDIENCE: Yes.
COMMISSIONER KJELLANDER: Great, thank
you, and you're coming in well and we appreciate that.
Let's begin by getting you sworn in.
CSB REPORTING
208 .890.5198
10
11
1-2
13
L4
15
L6
L7
18
L9
20
2t
22
23
24
HERNDON
Public
25
10
1
2
3
4
tr
6
7
8
9
10
11
72
13
l4
15
76
t7
18
79
20
27
22
23
24
CSB REPORTING
208 .890.5198
KELLEY
Publ-ic
CLIFF KELLEY,
appearing as a public witness, havi-ng been duly sworn,
was examined and testified as follows:
COMMISSIONER KJELLANDER: And why don't we
start with your name.
THE WITNESS: It is Cliff Ke11ey.
COMMISSIONER KJELLANDER: Thank you,
Cliff, and the last name is spelled?
THE WITNESS: K-e-I-l--e-y.
COMMISSIONER KJELLANDER: Thank you,
Cliff, and your address, please.
THE WITNESS: IL469 Payette Heights Road
in Payette.
COMMISSIONER K,JELLANDER: Thank you and
are you a customer of Idaho Power?
THE WfTNESS: Yes, f am.
COMMISSIONER KJELLANDER: Good, thank you,
and if you wou1d, please, offer us your statement.
THE WITNESS: All right, I am a solar
generator having
began my research
the pandemic was
observations. It
installed a solar system J-n 2020. I
2020 about the same ti-me thatearly in
getting into full swing and a
took me awhile to fearn that
couple of
the
current net metering
been grandfathered to
arrangement with Idaho Power had
end in December. I would like to25
11
1
2
3
4
5
6
1
R
9
10
11
L2
13
L4
15
76
77
18
79
20
2t
22
23
24
CSB REPORTING
208.890.5198
KELLEY
Public
note that ldaho Power made no general announcement of
that for peopfe who might be considering sol-ar
instal-l-ation, and I would note
because that obviously when
there was no anticipation that
the impact that it had.
closed when I was trying
on the calf-back basis.
from my experience that
that ruling was made,
the pandemic would have
I found that Idaho Power's offices were
call back about a question or issue about
to get information. People were
Sometimes it took weeks to get a
r did it installed,
my system.
but it tookget
out and do the inspection and aII
Anyway, eventually
awhile for them to come
that and it went live mid 2020, so I would l-ike the PUC
to expand the scope of the study to include treatment of
customers who came online in the period between the
current grandfather date of December 2079 and whenever
whatever new rate structure goes into effect for net
metering, because I believe that they coul-dn't have
anticipated the impact that the pandemic would have had.
A1so, I learned through the process that I
cannot transfer my credits on my what I s termed
residential net metering system to my irrigation account,
even though both accounts, both meters are on the same
property and served from the same segment of the
distribution system. I see no reason for that and I25
L2
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
I
9
think that that should be addressed or considered in the
study, the transferrlng of credits between classes of
service.
I won't go into I noticed that the
intervenors have addressed many of the concerns I have
and I hope the PUC will take those into account. I'm not
going to go through that, but I do support the issues
raised by the j-ntervenors and I'm particularly concerned
about the expiration of credits. I see no reason for
that and would encourage, as the prevj-ous call-er said,
that a neutral party be used to develop and conduct the
study, and that concludes my comments.
COMMISSfONER KJELLANDER: Thank you, Mr.
Kel1ey. We appreciate your comments.
(The witness left the stand. )
COMMISSIONER KJELLANDER: We move now to a
caller with the number [phone]. That's
(208 ) 863- 611 4.
AUDIENCE: Yes, can you hear me?
COMMISSIONER KJELLANDER: Yes, I can hear
a voice. That's great. Can I get you sworn in?
AUDIENCE: Awesome.
COMMISSIONER KJELLANDER: Great.
CSB REPORTING
208 .8 90 . 5198
10
11
72
13
74
15
16
l1
18
t9
20
21,
22
23
24
KELLEY
Public
25
13
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
74
15
16
1-7
18
t9
20
2t
22
23
24
CSB REPORTING
208.890. 5198
CHANDLER
PubIic
appearing as
was examined
JANE CHANDLER,
a public witness, having been duly sworn,
and testified as follows:
COMMISSIONER KJELLANDER: If you could for
the record, please state your name, spellinq your last
name for us.
THE WITNESS: Jane Chandler,
C-h-a-n-d-1-e-r .
COMMISSIONER KJELLANDER: Thank you, and
your address?
THE WITNESS: 1,401 East Jefferson Street,
Boise, Idaho, 837L2.
COMMISSIONER KJELLANDER: And are you a
customer of fdaho Power?
THE WITNESS: I sure am
COMMISSIONER KJELLANDER: Okay, thank
you. Wetve got you officially on
your statement.
the record, so please
provide us
THE WITNESS: I would like to
Commlssion to conduct a neutral, independent
is fair and done by a third party and have it
value of solar generation, both financial and
quality of life and environmental benefits of
urge the
study that
include the
also
renewable
energy. The Public Utilities Commission shoul-d value the25
t4
1
2
3
4
q
6
1
I
9
10
11
t2
13
L4
15
L6
L1
18
19
20
2T
22
23
24
CSB REPORT]NG
208.890. s198
CHANDLER
PubIic
interests of the public, especially because Idaho Power
es sentially
Commission
shoul-d protect
slow down for
bit of trouble
public, especially given
essentially operates as
Utilities Commi-ssion has
acts as a monopoly and the Public Util-ities
and the studies done on solar generation
the public to
COMMISSIONER KJELLANDER: Can I ask you to
just a second? We're havi-ng just a little
tracklnq. It's good information, but just
slow down a little bit for us, if you wouId, please.
THE WITNESS: The Public Utilities
Commission should act in the best interests of the
and the place
the fact
a monopoly
a duty to
they live
that Idaho Power
and the Publ-ic
support the needs of
andthe people
for future
concerns.
generations and our current
protecting it both
environmental
support the proposal-s of the intervenors
follow their recommendations.
bel-ieve that credits shoul-d never
I
and urge them to
AdditionaIly, I
and that the environmental- benefits
should be weighed more heavily than
are important
currently what
expr-re
and
Idaho
Power is proposing. I also agree the comment period is
important after a draft study is made availabl-e and
before a final order is ruled on. It's going to affect
multiple generations and the way that our planet looks in25
15
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
U
9
10
11
t2
13
14
15
t6
17
t-8
19
20
21
22
23
24
CSB REPORTING
208.890. s198
CHANDLER
Public
the future not be taken IightIy, and fj-nancial benefits
to Idaho Power should not be the primary benefit or the
primary thought. We should be taking into account what
it. woul-d look l-ike to live in f daho f or years to come.
Thank you.
COMMISSIONER KJELLANDER: Thank your and
we appreciate your comments
interrupted you, but it al-so
and Irm sorry that I
reference to other people who
gives me a good chance to
testify that we wj-11 need
j ust
the
you to speak a little more
reasons, not least of which
telephonically can
again, I apprecj-ate
for your testimony.
( The
be just a Iittle scratchy and sor
your patience with it and thank you
s1owly for a
is sometimes
variety of
the audio
It's
again
Is the
witness l-eft the stand. )
COMMISSIONER KJELLANDER: Let's move
forward now with the next caller, (208) 94L-4186.
[phone]. Is the caller there?
with the cal-Ier with the number (208)
caller there? It seems as if it I s
on my screen, Adam.
Let's try
94L-4786.
I see a mute signal
AUDIENCE: I apologize, I must have dialed
in on the wrong numberr so please go on beyond, past
COMMISSIONER KJELLANDER: Okay, thank you,
me
25
16
1
2
3
4
5
6
1
8
9
10
11
72
13
74
15
16
L7
18
19
20
27
22
23
24
CSB REPORTING
208.890.5198
YOUNG
Public
appreciate that. We'lL move forward. Thank you very
much. Let's move on to the next number and that is area
code [phone]. Is the caller there?
(208) 841-8s87.
THE I/{ITNESS: Yeah, you
COMMISSIONER KJELLANDER :
you're comlng in very well for us. Why
getti-ng you sworn in.
can hear me?
Yes, I can and
don't we begin by
LISA YOUNG,
appearing as a public witness, having been first duly
sworn, testified as follows:
COMMISSIONER KJELLANDER: And if you could
for the record, please tel-l us your name, spelling your
last name.
THE WITNESS: My name is Lisa Young,
Y-o-u-n-9.
COMMISSIONER KJELLANDER: And that was
Lisa Young?
THE WITNESS: Yes.
COMMISSIONER KJELLANDER: Good, and your
address.
THE WITNESS: 503 West Franklin Street in
Boise, Idaho.25
11
1
2
3
4
5
6
1
8
9
10
11
72
13
74
15
t6
17
18
L9
20
21
22
23
24
CSB REPORTING
208.890.5198
YOUNG
Publ-ic
COMMISSIONER KJELLANDER: And are you a
customer of Idaho Power?
THE WITNESS: Yes.
COMMISSIONER KJELLANDER: Please take this
time to offer us your statement.
THE WITNESS: Great, thanks. Good
evenr_ng,
director
Commissioners. My name
of the Idaho Chapter of
is Lisa Young. f 'm the
the Sierra CIub and
over 10r 000 members andspeaking today
supporters in
on beha]f of the
southern Idaho/ many of whom are Idaho
Power customers and many of whom are interested in ownlng
a sol-ar system to heJ-p meet their energy needs.
I will- be submitting written comments on
this case before the comment deadline, but I appreciate
the opportunity to speak with you directly durj-ng the
hearing tonight, and thank you for offeri-ng this forum to
hear directly from customers and other stakeholders.
Our members and supporters are also
to submit their own personal
next few weeks since this an
written comments over
issue that they care
I want to
eager
the
deeply
thankabout and that
you in advance
each of their
directly impacts them
for taking the time to
comments as well.
read and consider
saying that j-t's no secret
members care a lot about
and
I will start by
that our organization and j-ts25
1B
1
2
3
4
5
6
1
8
9
10
11
t2
13
L4
15
16
71
18
19
20
2L
22
23
24
CSB REPORTING
208 .890.5198
YOUNG
Public
the heal-th and well-being of the so-cal-l-ed natural worId,
but what motivates
uJ-timately impacts
which, of course,
many of us is how the
people, communities,
environment
and the
are
economy,
to the
andenvironment does harm
inextricably linked. Harm
to families and businesses
benefits to the environment provide benefits to famil-ies
and businesses, and these costs and benefits can be
measured.
Numerous studies have assessed and
the tangible environmental benefits fromquantified
distributed customer-owned soIar,
public heal-th costs, from
development, to strengthen
basis for this study,
section bl-ank in its
evaluation "Evaluation of
cleaner l-ocal-
Idaho Power left the specific
latest proposal. It just says
the quantifiabl-e
ranging
air to
from lower
green job
the case ofgrid resil-iency in
climate change impacts, and that's why we were so
dlsappointed to see Idaho Power's proposed study
framework present such a weak and empty environmental
benefits section.
Despite being provided with the PUC
Staff's five specific suggested measurements for this
section and the Company telling us in its reply comments
in Case IPC-E-20-26 that they would indeed use those as a
environmental- and other system benefits. "25
L9
I
2
3
4
5
6
7
I
9
The Commission has already directed Rocky
Mountain Power in Case PAC-E-19-08 to analyze those five
specific envj-ronmental benefits that PUC Staff previously
outlined in its own ldentical solar study. Idaho Power
should be required to do the same for a sound and
wel-l--rounded analysis and to ensure fairness between
Idaho Power and Rocky Mountain Power customers in Idaho.
For Idaho Power to remove details like this from its own
envj-ronmental- benefits section of the study l-eaves us
concerned that i-t's trying to avoid analyzing these
critical metrics.
For too long the very real environmental
costs and benefits of infrastructure projects have been
swept aside and disregarded. They must be accurately
studied and quantified, particularly as environmental
changes continue to have a greater and greater impact on
our citi-es, our communi-ties, our homes, our grid, and
consequently, our economy and the public at large.
Please direct Idaho Power to, at the very
l-east, study the exact same parameters as Rocky Mountain
Power in its environmental benefi-ts section of its
customer solar study and consider the recommendations by
several other intervening parties who have already
provided feedback on that section as well-.
On behal-f of Sierra Club members, I want
CSB REPORTING
208.890. s198
10
11
L2
1_3
L4
15
16
L1
18
t9
20
2T
22
23
24
YOUNG
Public
25
20
1
2
3
4
5
6
1
B
9
10
11
72
13
74
15
16
71
18
1,9
20
27
22
23
24
CSB REPORTING
208 .8 90 . s198
MCKINLEY
Public
to thank you again for hostj-ng this forum for public
comment ensuring our concerns and suggestions and we look
forward to be continue engaging in this important process
as it moves forward.
COMMISSIONER KJELLANDER: Thank you, and
we appreciate your testimony this evening.
(The witness left the stand. )
COMMISSIONER KJELLANDER: Let's move on
now to the next caller and the number is [phone].
Is the cal1er there?
AUDIENCE: Yes, hello.
COMMISSIONER KJELLANDER: Yes, we hear you
we1l. Why don't I begin by swearj-ng you in.
ALEX McKINLEY,
appearing as a public witness, having been duly sworn,
was examined and testified as follows:
COMMISSIONER KJELLANDER: If you could,
teII us your name for the record.
THE WITNESS: AIex McKinley,
M-c-K-i-n-1-e-y.
COMMISSIONER KJELLANDER: And that's Alex
McKinley. Thank you, Alex. Your address please.
THE WITNESS: 1,407 East Jefferson, Boise,25
27
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
I
9
10
11
T2
13
L4
15
76
1,1
18
19
20
2L
22
23
24
CSB REPORTING
208 .890. s198
MCKINLEY
Public
Idaho.
COMMISSIONER KJELLANDER: And are you a
customer of Idaho Power?
THE WITNESS: I am.
COMMISSIONER KJELLANDER: Thank you.
Please provide us your statement.
THE WITNESS: In general, I agree with the
previous cal-Iers. I feel that my concerns about the
study stem from the fact that the parties in the case
along with Idaho Power seem very far apart on what they
believe woul-d represent a fair and credible assessment of
costs and beneflts of distributed generation, and it
seems to me that Idaho Power in entering this process,
even though in previous cases the PUC has instructed them
to, they're not entering this process in an open and
transparent way. They're enterj-ng it instead with a bias
and they have an end goa1, and so I think, I would hope
if nothing e1se, that an independent third party conduct
the study. That would give it a litt1e more credibility
than what seems to potentially be the result right now.
I would afso like the large amount of
research into this area, including other studies that
have been completed
starting
in other states, to be considered as
sort of a point for
the wheelneed to re-create
a study like this. We don't
and there's been a lot of25
22
1
2
3
4
5
6
1
B
9
things very simllar to this already done. I think as
many people before have said, I'm disappointed that the
environmental benefits and other benefits of distrlbuted
generation seem to be lacking in Idaho Powerrs initial
proposal for a study framework.
I think that fdaho Power spends a lot of
effort in marketing the environment and thelr
conservation strategies to people, but then j-n forums
like this where the river meets the road, they can just
fight against that and so I'm concerned that the, you
know, faj-r, just, reasonable, and in the public interest
bar for this study isn't right now going to be the result
and we're going to be back to the place we started when
this gets finishedr so I think some of the folks had nice
ldeas, but before an actual study is done, a further
comment period would be nice to have to actually comment
on the details, because thatrs actually what matters, how
you value the environment, how you value dj-stributed
generation is what the study is al-I about and so without
more details, it's difficult to comment j-n a more
specific way. I really appreciate the tj-me and I will
yield to the next person.
COMMISSIONER KJELLANDER: Thank you for
your comments. We appreciate them.
(The witness left the stand. )
CSB REPORTING
208 .8 90 . 5198
MCKINLEY
Public
10
11
L2
13
74
15
t6
t7
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
23
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
72
13
14
15
L6
L7
18
19
20
2L
22
23
24
CSB REPORTING
208 .890.5198
DEL GRANDE
PubIic
COMMISSIONER KJELLANDER: And we will move
now to the next cafler with the number [phone]
Is the call-er there?
AUDIENCE: Yes.
COMMISSIONER KJELLANDER: Greatr w€ can
AUDfENCE: My name is Dan okay.
COMMISSIONER KJELLANDER: Why don't I get
you sworn in first, Dan.
appearing as
was examined
DAN]EL DEL GRANDE,
a public witness, having been duly sworn,
and testif ied as f ol-Iows:
COMMISSIONER KJELLANDER: And if you
couId, give us your name.
THE WITNESS: Daniel De1 Grande. That's
D-e-1 G-r-a-n-d-e.
COMMISSIONER KJELLANDER: Thank you, and
your address, please.
THE WITNESS: 939 South Shoshone, Boise,
Idaho.
COMMISSIONER KJELLANDER: And are you a
customer
THE WITNESS: And I am an Idaho Power
customer.25
24
1
2
3
4
5
6
1
B
9
COMMISSIONER KJELLANDER: Great, thank you
very much, and I knew you would anticipate the next
questi-onr so thank you for that. You are ful1y sworn in
and please give us your statement.
THE WITNESS: A11 right. WeIl, thanks for
the public forum tonight. I have a pretty short one, I
think. I think the study desi-gn could use some sort of a
customer centric message. You know, when a customer
wants to put I'm in the process of putting in a solar
system and so I'm looking at, what I want to do is put
enough kilowatts so that at the end of the year my bill
is, you know, minimum monthly fee, five bucks or whatever
times L2, but I just need to know that f can do that and
I'd like to see some sort of, f donrt know, maybe it's a
sample advertisement or program design out of the study
design that woufd communicate to consumers what it is
that they can do and how much they're going to be
credited back.
I al-so think that one thing Irm concerned
with is the time period wlth which export credits are
accumulated and expire, Lf they do expire and I feel like
we need to do something like an April lst through March
30th period, because the sun shines in Boise when werre
creating al1 these credits in the summer and then we use
up the credits in the winter to some extent when, you
l0
11
I2
13
L4
15
t6
t1
1B
19
20
2t
22
23
24
CSB REPORTING
208.890.5198
DEL GRANDE
Publ-ic
25
25
1
2
3
4
5
6
1
8
9
l_0
11
L2
13
1,4
15
L6
L7
18
19
20
2t
22
23
24
CSB REPORTING
208 .890.5198
DEL GRANDE
Publ-ic
know, we don't have as many hours and quality of
sunshine, and if credits expire, I'd l-ove to see a way
for them to get cashed out every year or they could be
carried out for maybe another 24 to 36 months.
And fj-na1J-y, I agree that we shoul-d have a
second public comment period before the IPUC issues its
final rule, so with that, Ir11 yield to the next cal-ler.
COMMISSIONER KJELLANDER: Thank you very
much. We appreci-ate your comments.
(The witness left the stand. )
COMMISSIONER KJELLANDER: Let's go back
again
couple
Is the
If for
for any frustration
additional written
technical glitch
At
and please
comments and
our end.
this
hearing me, I apologize
feel free to submit some
we apologize if it was a
to one of the initial- numbers that we've tried a
of times now and that is area code (386) 374-84'74.
caller there? Okay, we tried three tj-mes on that.
whatever reason you are
on
present list of callers
bridge. It's my intent
which time, then, we'11-
additional callers, we
point we have exhausted the
that have cal-l-ed in on the
to take a ten-minute recess, dt
come back and if
will- continue with
we have
the public
bring thistestimony; otherwj-se, what we will do is
specific public hearj-ng in for a landj-ng, so we will go25
26
1
2
3
4
5
6
1
I
9
10
11
t2
13
74
15
t6
77
1B
19
20
2t
22
23
24
CSB RBPORTING
208.890.5198
off the record for a 1O-minute window. ft's our intent
to be back on with the record live again at 10 minutes
before the hour.
(Recess. )
COMMISSIONER KJELLANDER: And we will- go
back on the record and as I l-ook at the list of potential-
cal1ers, I notice that we do not have any additi.onal new
numbers of those to testify, so at this point, what I'd
like to do is first and foremost, thank everyone who did
cal-l- in, ej-ther to listen or to testify, for their desire
to participate in this evening's proceedings.
Additionally, for those who directly
provided testimony, I greatly appreciate the fact that
you were able to keep your comments and statements to a
concise format and kept it under five minutes. We
certainl-y do appreciate that as we develop this record,
so thank you again for your thoughtful comments in
helping us in developing this record.
Since at this point we do not have any
additional call-ers who testify, it is my
public hearj-ng to
back officially on
customers ready to
at this time adjourn
then, to bring
and so,
testify, it is
this customer again for your
intent,
cl-osure
the record and
agar-n,
we have
are online to
this specific
now that wetre
no additional
appropriate for us
hearing. Thank you
to
25
21 COLLOQUY
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
participation.
(The Hearing adjourned at 6:53 p.m.)
CSB REPORTING
208.890.5198
10
1-1
1"2
13
t4
15
16
t7
18
l-9
20
27
22
23
24
25
28 COLLOQUY
AUTHENTICATION
This is to certify that the foregoing
telephonic proceedings held in the matter of Idaho Power
Company's application to initiate a mul-ti-phase
coll-aborative process for the study of costs, benefits,
and compensation for net excess energy associated with
customer on-site generation, commencing at 6:00 p.m.r orl
Thursday, October 28, 2027, dt the Commj-ssion Hearing
Room, 11331 West Chj-nden B1vd, Building 8, Suite 207-A,
Boise, Idaho, is a true and correct transcript of said
proceedings and the original thereof for the file of the
Commissi-on.
CONSTANCECertified S. BUCY
Shorthand Repor r #187
BI,CYsCONSTAt.lCE
IDAIOOFSTAIERJBUCNOTARY
12905ilUMBERcoMMlssloN
9+2024E(PIRESMYG!{lllMlsspN
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
t2
13
L4
15
t6
17
18
79
20
27
22
23
24
CSB REPORTING
208.890.5198
25
29 AUTHENTICATION