20191218Public Hearing Transcript Vol II.pdf

o
o
CSB REPORTING
Ce rli/ied S horth and Reporters
Post Ollice Box 9774
Boise, Idaho 83707
csbreportin vahoo.com Reporter:
Constance Bucy,
CSR
BEEORE THE IDAHO PUBLIC UTILIT]ES COMMISSION
IN THE MATTER OE THE PETITION OF
IDAHO POWER COMPANY TO STUDY THE
COSTS, BENEFITS, AND COMPENSATION
OF NET EXCESS ENERGY SUPPLIED BY
CUSTOMER ON-SITE GENERATION
CASE NO. I PC-E- 18 - 15
BEEORE
;
<:)
C) TTIC)com
"-, mo
FCOMMISS IONER PAUL K.]EI,LANDER (HIeSLCi-ngI oo
COMMISSIONER KR]STINE RAPER
COMMISSIONER ER]C ANDERSON
oz.
PLACE :Commi s s ion
113 31 WestBuilding I
Boise, Ida
Conference Room
Chinden BIvd.Suite 2 01-A
ho
DATE :December 2, 201.9
VOLUME I]Paqes 24'l 488
o ORIGINAL
Ph: 208-890-5198 Fax: l-888-623-6899
a
o
1
2
3
4
(
6
7
8
9
10
!
11
L2
13
74
15
L6
l'7
18
I9
20
27
22
23
2A
CSB REPORTING
208.890.5198
APPEARANCES
For the Staff:Edward Jerell , Esg.
Deputy Attorney General
11331 W. Chlnden Bl-vd.
Building 8, Suite 2 01-A
Boise, Idaho 83714
For Idaho Pcwer Company:Lisa D. NordstroD
Idaho Power Company
1227 W. Idaho Street
PO Box 70
Boise, Idaho 83707-0070
25
APPEARANCES
I I
2
3
4
5
6
1
I
9
10
11
t2I13
74
15
16
71
18
19
20
27
22
23
24
CSB REPORTING(208) 890-s198
INDEX
WITNESS EXAMINATION BY PAGE
Joshua Seth Hill
(Publ ic )
Statement
Marlan Herz(PubIic)Statement 263
Gregory Cunningham
(Public )
Statement 261
Eugene Hruza(Public)Statement ?69
Ralph Myers
(Public )
St at ement 213
Jessica Benson
(PubIic)Statement 289
Wil-liam Bouck(Public)S tateme nt 294
Richard K.Luckhohn
( Public )
Statement 1o-1
Jeff Cafdwell(PubIic)Statement 301
Jim Haddock
(Public)
S tat eme nt 304
M j-chael Dunlap
(PubIic)
Statement 307
Tami TayI or
(Pubfic)
Statement 309
Anne Herndon(Public)Statement 311
Diane Jensen
( Publ ic )
312Statement
e 25
INDEX
o 1
2
3
4
5
6
1
B
9
10
11
72
O 13
l4
15
16
I1
1B
19
20
2L
22
23
o
CSB RE PORT ING
(208 ) 890-s198
INDEX (Continued)
WITNESS EXAM]NATION BY PAGE
Alan Shealy(Public)Statement 314
Robert Mattern
(Public )
Stat ement 3r8
Michael McBride
( Publ- j-c )
Statement 32L
Melody Asher
(Public)
Statement 321
Robert Soj ka
(PubJ-ic)
StaLement 332
R.ick Just(Public)Statement 338
Laurie Bent I ey
(Public)
St at emen t 339
Gary Roeder(PubIic)St at eme nt
Bri-en Riff(Publlc)Statement 346
John Gannon(Public )
Statement 350
RusseI.I Buschert
( Publ ic )
Statement 352
Rod Eonda(PubIic)Statement 356
Jamie could(Public)Statement 358
Linda Langdon
( PubI ic )
360Statement
25
INDEX
o 1
2
3
4
5
6
1
9
10
11
L2
a 13
74
15
76
L1
1B
19
2A
27
22
23
)A
CSB REPORTING(208) 890-s198
INDEX (Continued)
W]TNESS EXAMINATTON BY PAGE
Jeff Eereday
( Public )
StatemerLt 362
Christopher Barker(Public)Statement 368
Robert Parker
( PubIic )
Statement 3't 3
Lisa Hecht
(PubIic)Statement 31 6
Cha r.Ies cains(Public)Statement 384
Tyfer Granqte
( Publ ic )
Statement 391
David Monsees
(Public)
Statement 401
Randy Nilson
(Public)
S ta Lement 40s
Pattl Raino
(Pub11c )
Statement 408
Britt Wilfiams
( PubJ- j-c )
Statement 4tL
Spencer !,lood
(Public )
Statement 418
Robert Conant
( Pubfic )
Statement 420
Rodney Wolfe
( Public )
S t at ement 431
Pat Beale
(Public)
434Statement
a 25
TNDEX
t 1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
I
11
1-2
13
l4
15
16
T1
18
t9
20
21.
22
23
24
CSB REPORT ING(208) 890-s198
INDEX (Continued)
WITNESS EXAMINATTON BY PAGE
Stephanie Sheppard
(Public )
Statement 438
Clinton Hoops(Public)Statement 44L
Jerry Jensen
(PubIic )
Statement 443
Gary Labrum
(PubJ-ic)
Statement 446
Robert Kunz
(Public)
Statement 449
Steven Schwa r z
(Pubfic)
Statement
William Eowkes
(Public)
Statement 458
Vikki Lang
(PubIic )
Statement 465
Ron Hif f
( PubIic )
St atement 46t
Ifana Rubef
( PubI ic )
Statement 468
Jeffrey Woodworth(Pubfic)Statement 413
George Stanton
( PubIic )
Statement 41 6
Patrick Erederickson
(Public )
Statement 419
Doug Namba
(Public )
483Statement
o 25
INDEX
a
o
1
2
3
4
5
6
'7
I
9
10
11
L2
13
l4
15
16
L1
1B
19
20
27
22
23
24
CSB REPORTING
208.8S0.5198
BOTSE. TDAEO, TUESDAY, DECE!{BER 3, 2OL9, ?:00 p. M
This is the time and
COMM] SS IONER KJELLANDER :Good evening.
hearing in Casea publ ic
No. IPC-E-18-15, also
application of Idaho
place for
known as
Power
in the matter of the
benefits, and compensation
Company
of net
to studv the
excess
costs,
supplied
on-site generat ion.
I'II be the Chair of
ene Igy
is Paul
this evening ' s public
hearing. Next to me is Commissioner Eric Anderson and
I'm also joined by Kristine Raper, The three of us
comprise the Commission and I will make -- and we wil-l-
coll-ectiveLy make a final" delermination on this case once
it's fuIIy submitted.
For those of you that are wishing to al-so
submit written comments, the deadline is today. There
are some sheets that are out in the lobby area in the
by customer
Kjellander.
back if you'd li ke
feel free to f ill-
to submit written comments. Please
those out and .,re can get those left
our publ i ceither on the table or to Adam Rush,
information officer, who during one
My name
that you know that
him and a.Iso be put
of the breaks I will
introduce to you or him to you so
those comments can be delivered to
into the official record.a 25
241 COLLOQUY
o 1
2
3
4
5
tr'
1
I
9
10
11
12
o 13
1.4
15
16
L1
18
19
2A
27
22
23
24
o
CSB REPORTING
208.890.5198
So the purpose of tonight's hearing is to
take testimony from the public regarding this case. This
is an opportunity for members of the public to get their
statement entered into the record that ultimatefy assists
this Conunission in its del-iberation process.
As further background, the Commission
serves in a simj-far capacity as a Dist.rict Court and we
genera.If y fo1low District Court ru.Ies. We're here this
evening to hel-p create a fuIly developed record. We're
not here today to pass judgment on cornments or statements
made for the official record. The Commissioners serve as
judges and accordinqly, do not answer questi-ons rel-ated
to the case other t.han questions regarding procedure.
The Commission wilf not begj-n to deliberate on the merits
of this case until- the offi-cial record is closed.
AdditionafLy, the
through its Orders
this matter.
AS
Commi s s j-on, like
as it relates to
judges, only speaks
the finaf ruling on
far as the procedure goes this evening,
I wil-f call your name from the sign-up sheets and you
wi.]I then take the stand. At
Commissioner Raper wi-ll swear
that point, then,
you in, will ask
swear or affirm that
you to
theraise your right hand and
testimony you're providing is the whole t.ruth and nothing
but the truth, then the Deputy Attorney General wiII ask25
248 COLLOQUY
o
o
1
2
3
4
5
6
1
I
9
CSB REPORTING
208.890.5198
statement for the record.
Following your statement, there nlght be
questions from partles to the case as weII as
Commissioners and so we wou]-d like you to just remain on
the stand until we have any additional- questions that may
be asked in relationship to your testimony. As you
provide your statement tonight, please remember that the
decorum of this proceeding is s.imifar to a courtroom.
Your conunents shoufd be directed to the Commissioners and
not members of the audience. We're not here to take a
you a few short questions
record, You wi-Ll next- be
to get you
affowed to
to any testimony
no clapping or no
officially on the
provide your
pofl.
direct
We're not here to take a vote on anything. Please
your comments to the Commissioners as we develop
this record,
Eor those ln the audience,. we ask you to
it's beingrefrain from reacting while
and we appreciate your wj-llingness to respect this
provided. That means verba.L comment
judicial in nature, we have
and, again, thank you for
does her work tonight. We
people wilJ- speak a 1ittle
slow down for purposes of
process,
a court
Since our cases are
reporter, Connie
not standing behind her
Bucy,
as she
wiff need you -- occasionally
quickly and we
ensuring that
may ask you to
we get the transcript officially for theo
COLLOQUY
10
11
72
t3
L4
15
1.6
11
18
19
20
2t
22
23
24
25
249
a 1
2
3
4
5
6
1
8
9
10
11
t2
a 13
L4
15
16
l1
18
l9
20
2l
22
23
24
a
CSB REPORTING
208.890.51 98
record,
The transcript is necessary because in our
quasi judicial role, we must base our decisions on that
official record of which this is a part, and that record
is al-so significant in the event that our decision is
appealed to the Idaho State Supreme Court, so at this
point, 1et's begin by taking the appearances of the
partles and let's begin with the Applicant Idaho Power.
MS. NORDSTROM: Lisa Nordstrom, attorney
for Idaho Power.
COMMISSIONER KJELLANDER: Thank you, and
]et's move now to
representing the
Commissi-on.
MR
evening, Commissioners. My name
Atto.rney General for the Public
the Deputy Attorney Generaf
Staff of the ldaho Public Utilities
JEWELL: Thank you, Chairman. Good
is Edward
Utilities
JewelI, Deputy
Cornmission.
THE AUDIENCE:
MR. JEWELL:
Deputy Attorney General for
Commission.
COMM]SSIONER
Louder.
My name i s Edwa rd .TeweJ- 1 ,
the ldaho PubIic Utilities
Mr. Jewe1l. Are there any other parties
for the record thisneed to be recogni zed
KJELLANDER:Thank you,
to the case that
evening?
Seeing none, then, we are ready to call- our first25
250 COLLOQU Y
I 1
2
3
4
5
6
'7
I
o
10
11
l2
I 13
74
15
l6
l1
rB
19
20
2L
22
24
CSB REPORT ING
208.890.519E
257
I recognize that probably the best thing
to try to prescribe a limit, but I think
will do instead is encourage you to keep
brief. recognizing there are others who
evening.
witness. I just want
very long l-ist of over
names thi s evenang.
best, and
for making
to let you know that
100 people who have
we do have a
signed up and
do would beto
I'11 do my
in advance
as we get you up
mistakes, but I
t.hat what we
your comment
wi ]f testify this
here, I apologi ze
do thlnk I have the
Try not to repeat things that have been
said before, but certainly we do want to hear from you,
so if you could provide new information, that would be
fine. If you've already testified officially on the
record and some were invo.Ived with the telephonic hearing
yesterday and have afso provided written comments, please
if you want to testify tonight, if you could add some
additional new information, t.hat would be usefuf for us
and afso help us to get through the list of those who
wish to testlfy, so l-et's begin with the first witness --
and I apol-ogize in advance, I wilf mispronounce some
I recognize with a name like mine,
f irst one under controJ-, Joshua HiI.l-.
MR. HILL: You got it right.
o
COLLOQUY
o 1
2
3
4
5
6
1
9
10
11
L2
o 13
r4
15
16
t7
18
19
20
21
22
23
24I
CSB REPORTING
208. 890. s198
HILL
Public
JOSHUA SETH HILL,
appearing as a public witness, having been
was examined and testified as follows:
duly sworn,
EXAM]NATION
BY MR. JEWELL:
Q And will you state your name and spe1l it
for the record, please ?
A ,Joshua Seth Hifl, J-o-s-h-u-a S-e-t-h
H-i-1-1.
O
A
8370s.
o
A
o
A
previously
informat ion
in forma t ion
Thank you.
Thank
asking if
as to the
you. I
I could
And can you state your place of address?
1625 South Latah Street, Boj-se, Idaho,
And are you a customer of Idaho Power?
Yes.
And the floor
I 'm testi fying. Would
COMMISSIONER RAPER:
is yours for your conunent.
addressed the PUC sLaf f
submat a handout with some
proof of the
that be acceptable?
To the court ?
s tatemenl, s
THE W]TNESS: CoTTeCt.
COMMISSIONER RAPER: That woufd be fine.
o 1
2
3
4
5
6
1
I
9
10
11
L2
o 13
L4
15
16
1.1
18
19
20
27
22
23
24
CSB REPORTING
208. 890.5198
HlLL
Public
this brief. Thank you, Commissioner and Chairman
THE WITNESS: So I'll do my best to keep
Commissioner, I have another copy ifKj ellander and
you would like.
this one. I bel-ieve it's
testify to the sett.Iement
unfair, and unreasonabl-e.
generation customers are
COMMISSIONER RAPER: We're good.
THE WITNESS: -- Commissioner Raper and
Commj-ssioner Anderson, I testified and met
first time last year in the previous case
13, ending in 13. I
in Case I PC-E- 18 - 15
for the
relates to
want to
as unj ust,
for on-site
you
that
The proposed
discriminatory and unfair.
rates
Before any changes to Schedule 6 and 8 can
be made, a full study of the benefits of sofar shoufd be
completed by mul-tiple parties, including independent
third parties, if a f ul,l- rate change j-s necessary and may
I suggest a simple time-of-use rate across al-f schedul-es
to solve the problem and be updated in future rate cases
as needed by ldaho Power, referred to as the Company
after this.
' I want to go all the way back to 2008 when
the federal tax credit for sol-ar was implemented at 30
percent- I bel-ieve the reason the federal tax credit was
implemented is to encourage adoption of on-site
generation by the fol-ks who get the tax credit, theo25
253
a t
2
3
4
5
6
7
I
9
10
11
I2
o 13
I4
15
T6
1'7
1B
19
2A
21
22
23
CSB REPORTING
208. 890. 5198
HILL
PubI ic
public, you.
of solar to
exponentrally as
the federal tax
Idaho speclflc growth
referencing that Idaho
case and previous, the
outpacing the growth
simply, we're adding
better or worse and
That 30 percent is meant to fower the cost
more reliable,
the pubJ-ic, by
the customer and make our gr id
bydistribute generation amongst our
busj-nesses, and homeowners which I
The growth of so lar
grid
hope are here tonight.
it has across the nation, which
growth does not even
the grid as a whole.
in Idaho has
more than
that I wi 11
g rown
is why
come cl-ose to
To put
Idaho for
the growth.
follow come
unless
credit wilf be stepping down. As to
and in the cases 1'11 be
Power mentions throughout thi s
of
10-15,000
we're only
new homes in
adding potentially a
coup.Ie thousand solar customers per year; therefore,
werre not saturating the
A1l of my
grid any
numbers
d i rect 1y
otherwise
In Order
from Idaho Power and PUC documents
noted. I'II try to keep this brief, as I said.
No. 32846, the Commission stated, and not to be
redundant, but I befieve this is the crux of the case,
"we find it fair, just, and reasonabfe for the
kilowatt-hour credit to indefinitely carry forward to
offset future bills for so long as the customer remains
on the net mete.r.ing service at the same generation site.
AlLowing the credits to carry forward indefinitelyo25
254
I l-
2
3
4
5
6
1
I
9
10
o
t2
13
l4
15
16
11
t1
2L
1B
19
)i
22
23
24
CSB REPORTING
208.890.5198
H]LL
Publ i c
ensures that customers will be able to use their credits
when they need them and thus receive the benefits of
their systems . "
In IPC-E-1"7-13, the case for new schedules
for customers with on-sj-te generation, last year's case,
this Corunission ordered that Idaho Power cl-ose Schedufe
84 and create Schedule 6 and 8. They further ordered
ldaho Power initiate a docket to
the costs and benefits of on-slte
comprehenslvely
generation on
rates and ratesystem, as weII as proper
not to be redundant, but I
my testimony in this case.
study
fdaho
Power's
Again,
crux of
believe that to
design.
be the
Further, it was ordered Idaho Power sha11
file a study with the Commisslon exploring fixed cost
recovery in basic charges and other rate designs prior to
1ts next general rate case, so when customers go so1ar.
they're paying for generation. Idaho Power isn't paying
a penny for that generatj-on. Savj-ngs and cost shift from
sofar when compared to energy efficiency is very similar
to the grid. The grid doesn't know the difference
between a circuit of a thousand people lower j-ng their
usage by 10 percent versus 10 percent of people on those
thousand units goj-ng soLar. It's ultimately the same.
There is a shift whenever power is pushed
onto the grid by some so]-ar customers, but I believe thato25
255
I 1
2
3
4
5
6
1
B
9
shift to be so negligible and as I understand
electricity, Irm not an engineer, but power flows
"downhill. " It goes to the neighbor that needs it right
awayi thus, lowering the demand l-oad on that circuit.
Erom Idaho Power's 2018 annual report, in
201,8, 201'7 and '16, Idaho Power expended approximately 44
mif l-ion, 48 mil-f ion -- I apologize, I thought this might.
happen- In 2018, 201.1 , and 2016, Idaho Power expended
approximately 44 mi1lion, 48 mi1lion, and 43 mi11ion,
respectively, on both energy efficiency and demand
response programs.
In my conversations with Idaho Power
staff, this is in an emaif I can provj-de if needed, the
quote, "Demand-side management marketing expenses total
$1,210,L72." That means the Company spends around 2.8
percent of their marketing on encouraging energy
efficiency to customers.
In 2018, Idaho Power -- again, quoting
Idaho Power's numbers, in 2018, Idaho Power's energy
efficiency programs reduced energy usage by approximately
173,000 megawatts. One watt, 1,000 kilowatts, 1,000
kil-owatts, 1,000 megawatts, a significant amount of
power. fn the graphic on the handout I provided, it
explains how that is seen by the grid, so I'11 skip
expJ-alning that further. That 173,000 megawatts equates
10
a
11
L2
13
74
15
16
L1
18
19
20
2l
22
23
24t
CSB REPORTING
208.890. s198
H]LL
Public
25
256
o 1
2
3
4
5
6
"/
8
9
10
11
72
a 13
l4
15
16
t1
18
19
2A
2L
22
23
a 25
CSB REPORTING
208.890.5198
HILL
Pub] ic
to approximately $14, 878,000
the base rate. That's less
]ess than they actual-ly
question/ I apologi ze .
We have a
at 8.6 cents per kilowatt at
t han the retai} value, surely
-- not to ask aIost, so
roughfy $16 mif l-ion expenditure
per year
trying to
to be more energy efficient and yet, we're
rec!-assif y solar's effect on the grld of
efficiency by changing the compensation structure. Quote
from Idaho Powerrs 20LB annual net metering report,
"There are roughly 650 efectrical distribution circuits
in the Company's servj-ce area, tr circuits by which the
grid is split up.
"As of March 31st, 2018, there were 2,068
active net meterj-ng systems totaling approximately 16
megawatts on 3'77 distribution circuits, " meaning roughly
a little over haff of ldaho Powerrs grid got free
generation from customers like yourself -- I'm sorry,
like some people who invested in so1ar. 16 plus
megawatts of generation which costs Idaho Power zero
dollars to install and maintain. The value of
distributed generation is afso very significant and has
not been weighed in this case.
The Company, to quote again, "The Company
had accumulated approximatel-y 0.5 million, 1.3 million,
2.3 mi1lion, and 2.6 million unused excess net energy
251
o 1
3
4
5
6
1
I
9
10
11
o 13
l2
L4
18
20
27
22
23
24
15
t6
71
19
CSB REPORTING
208.890.5198
HILL
Pubf i c
credits by the end of years 2014, 201,5, 201,6, and 2017,
respectively." To again use just the base rate, 2.6
million excess credits tn 2017 resulted tn $223,600 in
free efectricity to the grid, not to the fine folks who
invested in solar.
PUC Staff told me in phone conversations
before this hearing distributed energy is every bit as
vaLuable as energy efficiency. The EIA, Energy
Information Administration, estimates that national
electricity transmission and distribution, in other
words, moving all that power
around 6 percent of the tota]-
around, losses average
electricj-ty
that Idaho
gene ra t ed,
Power shoufd beme an 1ng
the only
putting
power in
pe rcent
if we as a grid
entity aL lowed
solar farms out
decide
to profit from solar, if they're
in the desert and shipping that
results in significant cost and about a 6
f oss.
Distributed generation lowers the
transmission cost to the grid. I cannot stress this
enough as an integral point to my testimony. Company
staff claim that 70 percent of fixed costs and charges
per kilowatt-hour are fixed costs -- sorry, the Company
claims that 70 percent of generation or per kilowatt
charges the customer receives are fixed costs. Looking
at overall, cost, a class cost. of service study wasO25
258
I 1
2
3
4
5
6
7
I
9
10
11
L2
o 13
L4
15
16
l1
18
19
20
2).
22
23
24
o
CSB REPORTING
208.890.5198
HILL
PubIic
uploaded as workpapers in the following docket to this
case, I PC-E- 18 - 16.
Thi s study looks at
Those numbers
Idaho Power ' s overall
cost of operating.
to set the rate in this case, Those
what ' s being used
numbers do not
are
factor in benefits that solar provides to the grid or
negliglbly so. I asked when our peak pricing is to Idaho
Power Company staff. The answer, "It depends, but power
system peaks in fate a fternoon/evening in summert j-me. "
In summertime we all- get charged significantly more for
our kifowatt-hours.
I asked what solar benefits specifically
were set aside in this case, 18-15, The Company staff's
answer, "Three components - avoided transmission and
distribution capaci-ty, integration costs, and
environmenta.I benefits.I' Not to quote the entire docket,
but in 20L7's annuaf net metering report from Idaho
Power, they say, among other things, the circuit -- this
is the report that Idaho Power issues to this Commission
reporting on net meters' saturation basicalJ-y. "That
circuit serves, " the most saturated circuit for sol-ar
serves, "mostly rural customers," farmers for instance,
"with a cal-culated surnmer peak load of approximately
1,900 kilowatt-hours. The net metering penetratj-on on
the circu.it is approximately 32 percent. "
259
o 1
)
3
4
5
6
1
8
9
10
11
12
a 13
).4
15
r6
l1
1B
19
2A
27
22
24
CSB REPORT]NG
208.890.5198
H]LL
Publ ic
quote, "The net
the Company's
small- and thedistribution system continues to
Company has not yet experienced
impacts on these circuits. " Off
To
that ' s 32 Dercent
no siqnificant
to manage
circuits, "
unquote. there's a
solar. To go back
circuit of our gr j-d
to
metered connected ki-fowatt capacity on
rema Ln
significant operational
quote again, 32 percent,
these cases, the verbiage
problems.
fn the next year's report leading
was slightly changed.
up to
Thi s
circuit, again referring to the most saturated circuit,
it did go up slightly j-n the amount of solar kifowatts.
"This circuit serves most.Iy rural customers with a
calculated summer peak load of approximately 2,100
kilowatts. " Loads increased. "During minimum foad
conditlons, " this is where it changed, "the 550 kilowatts
of power f l-ows from the circuit j-nto the substation and
on to other circuits"; in other words, they started
specifying that maybe in springtj-me, extra power is going
on to the grid.
Eurther quote, "Although growing
the net metered connected kil-owatt capacity on
quickly,
the
Company's distribution system
re.Iative to the total load and
continues to remain smal-l-
the
the minimal ope rat iona l
Company has been abfe
impact on these
AI t hough some service transformer upgradeso25
260
t 1
2
3
4
5
6
1
8
o
10
11
1.2I13
1.4
15
16
L'1
18
19
20
2t
22
23
CSB REPORTING
208.890.s198
I 25
261 HTLL
Publ ic
have been required, I provided documentation to show Lhe
transformer costs can be upwards of 2-3,000. Other
providers of solar to.Id me $10,000 or more potentiafly
for transformer upgrades that benefit the grid that the
customer pays for.
This is completely contrasted to what some
of the orders and comments from ldaho Power lead you to
believe, so Company staff's final answer regarding the
probfem we're trying to sofve, they say, "the problem is,
while the majority of our underlying cost structure is
fixed, the way that we coffect those costs is through
vofumetric rates. And when customers reduce their usage
for any reason, that creates underrecovery for the
utility and what we're feft to do is coflect that from
other customers"; so again, a customer who chooses not to
run their air conditioner has the same effect on the grid
of cost shifting to other customers as a customer who
offsets with solar.
"This needs to be addressed for all of our
customers. We are not trying to single out solar, " end
quote from Idaho Power staff. Again, the Commission
previous]y ordered a comprehensive study of the costs and
benefits of on-site generat.ion. Idaho Power has stated
in this docket that they have set aside the value of many
benefits of solar. The public previously placed thej-r
o 1
3
4
5
6
1
8
9
10
11
l2
o 13
l4
15
1.6
7-7
18
19
20
2L
22
23
24
a
CSB REPORTING
208.890.5198
HILL
Public
trust with the Publ-ic Utilities Commission
through on their previous Orders.
I see environmentaf benefit
to follow
of .Iand
one of the main reasons I got into worki-ng j-n solar
ago in Idaho. My grandfather used to say, "They're
making any more land, invest in it." We donrt have
USE AS
years
not
to
use fand for el-ectricity generation if we use our
rooftops. To me, that's why solar makes the most sense,
as wefl as the benefits j-t provides to the grid, Lhe
freedom, and your rights to invest in the grid and say
how our power is gene.rated.
I wou.l-d also like to see further study of
the advancement of the benefits of distributed
generation, which I have not found significant $reighing
of those benefits that solar provides to the grid. In
other words, as sofar power is distributed amongst the
grid, it creates a more reliable, Iess susceptible to
terrorism grid, l-ess outages. Itrs a common sense use of
our doflars. I do not want to see the policy of Idaho
become the worst in the nation, I implore this
Commission to not pass the settlement proposed in this
docket as it is unfair, unjust, and unreasonable to the
public.
Our future generation should not have to
look back and say we passed this policy and why we passed25
262
o
o
1
2
3
4
5
6
1
8
9
10
11
L2
13
L4
15
16
L7
18
19
20
2L
22
23
.A
CSB REPORTING
208.890.5198
HERZ
PubIic
this policy when it's clear that it's not a sofar issue.
It's a rate desiqn issue that should be fixed for aII
customers by Idaho Power.Thank you so much.
KJELLANDER: And fet's see ifCOMM] SS]ONER
there are any
any questions
from members
quest j-ons .
from parties
Excuse me, please.Are there
questions
Mr. Hill, for
to the case? Any
of the Commission? Thank you,
your testimony.
THE WITNESS: Thank you.
(The witness left the stand. )
COMMISSIONER KJELLANDER: Our next witness
Marian Herz.
appearing as
was examined
MARIAN HERZ,
a publj.c wj-tness, having been duly sworn,
and testified as fof .l-ows:
EXAMINATION"
BY MR. JEWELL:
o
the record,
A
H-e-r-z -
o
And wilf you state and spell your name for
Marian Herz, M-a-r-.i-a-n, fast name is
Thank you, and what j-s your pface ofa25
zo )
o 1
2
3
A
6
l
I
9
10
11
L2
o 13
74
15
16
11
1B
19
20
2L
22
23
24
CSB REPORTING
208.890.5198
H ERZ
Public
residence ?
Court,
Power?
Yes,
Joshua said, but
personal intere st
invested in solar
October of 2078,
And lt's all
A BLrise, Idaho, 7351 idest Old Country
Q Thank you. and are you a customer of Idaho
A
0
A Thank you.
yours.
WelI, I certainfy support what
to approach it more from a
of us who have already
installed the so.Iar panels in
I'm going
of those
power .
did the
I
ful,l business case. I used to
be a financial analyst and know how to do those things
and whil-e the payback was fairly 1ong, I figured it would
at least come in my lifetime. Then I got the letter from
Idaho Power with the new proposed rates and going from
monthly to hourly measuring of the credits, and so I went
back and crunched the numbers again and found that f
woul-d not get a payback in my lifetime.
This is really a signj-ficant difference.
This program shoufd not apply to those of us who have
already invested
based on certain
and approved
unethical to
rufes that were provided by Idaho Power
I'm assuming, It's
in solar panels. We made our investment
by the
change
Corun-ission,
the rules after the fact and aftero25
?-64
I 1
2
3
4
5
6
1
8
9
LO
11
t2
o 13
t4
15
l6
71
18
L9
2A
22
23
24
a
CSB REPORT]NG
208.890. sr98
HE RZ
Public
we've afl made our investments.
pol-icy
only to have
The Commission approved
that encouraged investment for
a net metering
Iong-term savings,
We should expect
from our public
honoring the
more from our
it changed is unethica.I .
appointed official-s and
they had no intention oftfut j-11ty.
agreement,
place.
they should have not made it in the first
In other parts of the country, and
have documentation, but I'm sure we could get some
I don't
lf you
currentneeded it, other states
solar owners when they
definitely grandfather
change their rates, We
I I']
should be
doing the same. The Idaho Publ-ic Util-j-ties Commission
promised that discriminatory rates would not be the
outcome of any proposed changes, If they're implemented
for -- if these proposed chanqes on this docket are
impfemented, it's definiteJ-y discriminatory towards those
of us who already invested.
Please, please keep your word and don't
discriminate against us. My understanding, I talked to
one of the parties invol-ved in the case, Irm not going to
mention their name because I havenrt asked their
permission, but they were heavify involved and I was told
that the impact of those of us who have already gone
solar is insignificant in the rounding error 1evel, so25
265
a 1
2
3
4
5
6
7
I
9
10
I
11
72
13
74
15
16
L1
18
19
20
2t
22
23
24I
CSB REPORT ING
208.890.5198
HERZ
Publ ic
I'm pleading with you to please grandfather in
us who have already made the investment. It's
thing to do and it's the ethical thing to do.
you .
COMMISSIONER KJELLANDER: ThanK
me see if there are any questions from parties
case or from the Commission. There are not.
for your testimony.
(The witness feft the stand. )
COMMI SS IONER KJELLANDER : V,le ' l1
Greg Cunningham.
those of
the right
Than k
you. Let
to the
Thank you
call now
GREGORY CUNNINGHAM,
appearing as a public witness, having been first duJ-y
sworn, testified as f oll-ows:
THE AUDIENCE: I Inaudible. ]
COMMISSIONER KJELLANDER: Excuse me, wetll
go ahead and proceed the way we are. I donrt know where
peopfe are sitting and I know I've already got a bunch of
people sj-tting on the f J-oor up here. It's going to be a
difficuLt path for them to come forward, so -- and the
problem is I can't actually read the next name, so I'm
going to butcher this. Maybe thatrs what I was really
trying to avoid. Eugene KIuza, perhaps, from Minidoka,25
266
o 1
2
3
4
5
6
1
I
9
10
11
t2
a 13
l4
15
l6
L1
18
L9
2A
2l
22
23
24
CSB REPORT ING
208.890.5198
CUNN ] NGHAM
Publ ic
could you raise
so just wanted
your hand?
to let you know that.. S ir, if you j ust
know you're
confusion,
You are next in the queue and
want to stay seated, I just wanted to let you
next j-n the queue and therein is the potential
so go ahead. Pfease proceed.
EXAM INAT ] ON
BY MR. JEWELL:
Q Wilt you please state and spell your name
for the record?
A GregoryCunnlngham, G-r-e-g-o-r-y
C-u-n -n- i -n-g-h- a -m .
0 And your address ?
A Kimberly, Idaho.
Q And are you a customer of Idaho Power?
A YeS.
Q Go ahead.
A I donrt have the information as Joshua
had. Afl- I know is in June of'18, Idaho Power and fdaho
Public Utifities Commission had an agreement and in May
of r19, I invested 3.3 cents a watt totaling $60,000 of
my retirement money to go solar with the idea that when I
get my 401(k) money, I can take my money and pay off my
solar panels and make retirement .Iife easier for me.o 25
2.61
a 1
2
3
4
5
6
1
B
9
10
11
72
o 13
L4
15
16
L1
18
19
20
27
22
24
CSB REPORTING
208.890.5198
CUNN I NGHAM
Public
Now,
lady before me saici,
wou.Idntt make sense
with thj-s new agreement, fike the
it does not pencil to make -- it
rf rfor me to do it at this point.
wouldn't have
would have went and bought a new
fact. I wanted the agreement we
the shares of credits, so when f
woul-d have known this was coming, T
invested $60,000 of my retirement sol-ar. I probably
pickup. That's a
the one-to-one on
credits in the
bi 1l in the
invest
That ' s why I
say, It took
in so.la r to
for
Dodge
had,
ma ke
summertime, I
wintertime and
your testimony.
the case? Erom
don't have a $400 power
that's what I face.
two-and-a-half acres. I have a
I wanted to get out from
month winter power bil-fs when Irm
I have
Iittle shop behind and
underneath the $4 00 a
not making sofar, so the surnmertime,
that's coming up would be just fine.
a big chunk of my retirement money to
try to make life easier for me when I
years. That's all I have.
COMMISSIONER KJELLANDER: Thank
yeah, the agreement
In the wintertime,
I'd stil--l be rnaking a $400 a month ldaho Power bill.
That's what I was trying to get away from.
decided to go solar. That's what I have to
do retire i-n two
Are there any
members of the
questions from
Commission? If
you for
parties to
not, thank
you for your testimcny this evening.o 25
loo
a
o
1
3
4
5
6
1
I
9
10
11
72
13
L4
15
t6
1.1
o
1B
19
20
27
22
24
CSB REPORTING
208.890.s198
HRU ZA
PubIic
(The witness left the stand. )
CCMMISSIONER KJELLANDER: And Mr. K1uza,
Eugene Kl-uza.
appearing as
was examined
EUGENE HRUZA,
a publ-ic witness, having been duJ-y sworn,
and testified as folLows:
EXAM]NATION
BY MR. JEWELL:
Q Just one second. Will you state and spell
your name for the record/ please?
A I am Eugene Hruza, E-u-g-e-n-e H-r-u-z-a.
I l-1ve five miLes east of Minidoka in south central
Idaho. I've been a lifetime user of Idaho Power:
the solar packageelectricity and I got interested in
deaf sometime ago, because I could
and I tried to get involved in wj-nd
said I didn't have wj-nd enough --
see some benefit in it
generation, but they
COMMISSIONER RAPER: One moment.
THE WITNESS: Excuse me, I'11 leave that
alone. I was very interested in wind generation, but
?_69
THE WITNESS: Okay, I'm --
o
o
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
L2
13
14
15
76
t-1
2t
1B
L9
20
22
23
24
CSB RE PORT ING
208.890.s198
HRUZA
Pubfic
they said I didn't have enough wind
Idaho to run one of the things, but
work/ and so I talked to the Idaho
personnel at Burley, Idaho, Ron Moore,
list of the power biII, the usage, and
domestic electricity for 18 years, and
two figures.
As of March or April of
was $580.19 for 5,300 kilowatt-hours.
it is -- I'11 find it here in a minute
December or no, in January of 2000, 552
ki-Lowatt-hours cost 5257 and that is an
increase. Now, if you
system stays as it has
in south central-
solar system would
Power sales or farm
and he got me a
everything on my
I'f f just give you
' 18, my power bill
In March, I think
to make sure. In
__ tr ao?
eno rmou s
buy a solar package today and the
been, iL will pay for itseff in 20
that don't believe in paying rent.
electr.ic bil-I as rent, because
years. I
Now, f see
when it's
am a pe.rson
paylng your
gone, it's gone.
If you buy a
Sooner or lat er
solar system, it's an
investment.1t-
wilf cos t
the bank
pays for it sel f
was the motive
They tol-d me
to buy a solar
"We can seff you
you $84,000."
and says, "Wi11
and you
that I
-- and I
pac ka ge
solar
own
had
got
and
panel s
the solar system. Now, that
behind buying a soJ,ar system,
ahold of di f fe rent
an outfit in Sa lt
companres
Lake says,
on a system tha t
I went to youa25
214
t 1
2
3
4
5
o
1
8
o
10
11
T?
o 13
l4
15
16
71
18
L9
20
21
22
23
24
CSB REPORT]NG
208.890.5198
HRU ZA
Publ i c
borrow me the money to buy a system Iike
think you need
a good price. "
this?"
He says. "I
and see if that'ss hoppi ng
Auric in
is this:
last bilJ.ing
electricity
for. I have
problem with
trying
on, the
of that
if that
to do some
I got ahold of
Boise. They wanted 597,200, but the difference
The system out of SaIt Lake, they said they was
pane 1sgo shopp.ing for
what we charge
tell you
March.
a meter
the cheapest
you for. The
solar wholesale. We
we can get and that's
out of Auric says we guarantee
The product is guaranteed for
guaranteed for 25 years. That
in the value of the cost to me
route.
our system f <>r 25 years.
25 years, the service is
makes a lot of d.ifference
and so I went with that
system
it stands today.
has gone down to
Today or this
kil-owatt-hours of
Now, I'J-1
They got it completed in
$5.14 a month and thatrs
whe re
My bilI
charge.
I have 11,000 and some odd
that Idaho Power has used, received money
it and that i-s theforreceived nothing
the new proj ect the new proposal they are
to come up with in my
rest of this winter,
isn't a benefll to me,
for
oprnron,
I'm going
because from now
to be using some
credit that Idaho Power has in reserve for me and
Ir11 tell- you what my bill
one month ' s electricwas in January of '17, $823
bi1l, and when 1 tefl people that, they say man, thatrsa
211"
a 1
2
3
4
5
6
1
B
9
10
11
l2
a 13
L4
15
76
1.1
1B
19
20
27
22
24
o
CSB REPORTING
208.890.5198
more than my whol-e budget is for January and just my
electric bi I1 was $823.
The month before that it was 576. The
month after 517, so with those kind of costs, we need
something to stabilize this system l-j-ke the way j-t was.
It $ras net metering and that net meter is very
interesting to look at. If you go out and look at it, it
has the el-ectricity going -- lines going across this way.
Thatrs the electricj-ty going to Idaho Power. When it
changes, the l1nes go the other dj-rection coming to my
facility, my home. Okay, now, I'II tell you the exciting
thing is go out on a cfear sunny day and there's little
clouds floating across, when them clouds come across the
sun, them lines start going the other directlon.
When the sun comes out bright, they start
the sun the fastergoing the
the fines
other way
move, and
and the brighter
it's very interesting and it tel-fs
you that something is happening in your favor, and I
encourage everybody to investigate so.Lar for yourself,
and if Idaho Power will only give us an opportunity to
deve.l-op electricity, they are the beneficiary when it
comes to how l-ong they've got to use my product from the
solar system kilowatt-hours and they sell them for
whatever they can, 1,2 cents a kilowatt-hour. Maybe they
have higher rates than that, but I've been around a long25
212 HRU ZA
Public
t
o
1
2
3
4
5
6
1
I
9
10
11
t2
13
74
15
76
71
1B
19
20
27
22
23
24
CSB REPORT ING
208.890.s198
MYERS
Publ- ic
time and I have irrigation
started irrigation, it cost
irrigation pump. Now, the
Thank you.
COMMISSIONER
pumps that when I first
$1,500 a year to run the
same pump costs 25,000 a year.
KJELLANDER: Thank you. Are
throughthere any -- please, no appJ-ause.
this with the decorum of a court.
Let's move
1 appreciate your
to the case?comments. Any
Mem]cers of the
testimony.
quest j-ons from part ie s
Commission? Thank you for your
THE WITNESS: Thank you.
(The witness left the stand. )
COMMISSIONER K.IELLANDER: Next Mr. Ralph
Myers.
appearrng as
was examined
RALPH MYERS
a public witness, having been duly sworn,
and testified as foffows:
EXAMINAT ION
BY MR. JEWELL:
Q WiIl you state and spe11 your name for the
record, pl-ease ?
A Ra]ph Myers, R-a-I-p-h M-y-e-r-s.o 25
21 3
I 1
2
3
4
6
1
8
9
10
11
L2
a 13
L4
15
16
71
1B
19
)i
2t
22
23
24
CSB REPORT ING
208.890.5198
21 4
o
A
Will you state your address?
1C975 West Netherland Drive, Boise,
I daho .
o
A
o
A
the Publ i c
waiting for
And are you a customer of Idaho Power?
v^a ai -
Take it away.
Thank you for the opportunity to address
Utilities Commission this evening. I've been
this opportunity for several months to tal-k
for Schedule 6 and Schedufe 8. I retired Last
38 years in the Army. I prepared for
by saving money for those things that I wanted
and secure for the future. That included a
began researching
about the current proposed agreement for on-site solar
generation
year after
re t i rement
to procure
compan j-es, I
a worthwhi Ie
solar system, so in preparation, I
solar systems as a way to hedge the
that is absolutel-y going to happen
Based on the proqram
Idaho Power and the bids I received
rasang
in the
being
from
cost of power
fuLure.
offered by
power
that it was
solar
crunched the numbers and declded
offered by Idaho Power would in
with a breakeven on the cost of
years without any changes. It
energy needs in the future and
i nvest-ment f or me.The program being
the long run provide me
the system after several
would meet my foreseeable
it would minimize the cost
MYERS
Publ ic
o 25
a 1
2
3
4
6
1
8
9
10
11
L2
o 13
74
15
L6
).1
18
19
)i
27
22
24
CSB REPORTING
208.890.5198
MYERS
Public
of electricity.
f'm sure the Pubfic Utilities Commission
j-s aware that solar systems are not smal-l- investments,
nor do people enter into these decisions to instalJ- so.Iar
systems without understanding clearly the program they
are signing up for with the Power Company and the
contract they are entering into wlth the sol-ar
instal-lation company. This decision involves spending
tens of thousands of dol,l-ars of hard-earned money to
instalf solar systems.
When I first heard about this case, f
began checking the ldaho Public Utilitiesr website for
information that what was being negotiated on my behalf.
What were the possible changes to the $32,000 solar
system that I had just installed on my home. Every few
weeks I would 1og on to the Public Util-ities Commission
website and became increasingly frustrated. There were
rea11y no
deta i l-ed
detailed information about this case, any
actually beingminuteswas
negotiated on my
explaining what
behaff or agreed upon .
new l ettersI did notlce many f 'm sure
some of you are here this evening -- from solar owners
telling you, Commissioners. that they did not think it
was fair or just for you affow Idaho Power to change the
program that they signed up for. I continued to growt25
21 5
I
t
1
2
4
5
6
'l
I
9
10
L1
L2
13
14
15
16
l1
1B
19
20
27
22
23
24
CSB REPORTING
208.890.5198
MYERS
Public
finally talked to an empfoyee who tofd me that there was
a fimited amount of information available because the
process was a sett lement.
That was news to me. He said that the
frustrated until one day f
the Idaho Publ- ic Utilities
actuaL meetings were
there wou.Id be some
actualfy voice their
Commission around mid JuIy. I
not public information and that
hearings later where the public coufd
actually called Idaho Power
was irri,tated that
process was being
input allowed. There
information on the
concerns. I
during the entire
negotiated, there
was no rel,ease of
process, because
with the provisions
be nul1 and void. "
time that this
were no public
any substantive
that covers the Idaho Public Utilities Commission, I came
across Title 74, Chapter 2, of Idaho law which covers
transparent and ethical government.
Erom my understanding/ and Irm not a
l-awyer, this l-aw requires alf neetings to be pub.Iic
unfess they meet the listed exceptions in the law. There
were none l-isted under Titfe 61, which j.s the Idaho
Public Utifities Commission. Title 74-208 states, "If an
action or any del-iberation or decision making that feads
to an action occurs at a meeting which fails to comply
I checked, Whife Iooking for the law
of this chapter, such actions shallt25
?1 6
o 1
2
3
4
5
6
'7
I
9
10
a
11
72
13
74
15
76
22
24
18
19
20
7't
21.
a
CSB REPORT]NG
208.890.5198
Title 61-208 which covers the Idaho Public
Utilities Commission has a paragraph calIed "Office and
Meetings. " It states, "The sessions of the Commission
shal-1 be public. " A review of the Tltle 61-201, creation
and appointment of the terms of office of members of the
Idaho Public Utifities Commission, Title 61--204 also
clearly defined the purpose and al-so the oversight
provided in Idaho public }aw for this Comm.ission.
Understanding that government by the
people and for the people is an essential. component of
our democracy and that checks and balances are woven into
the Constitution and Iaw, I have reached out to the
authorities that can
Idaho citi zens. The
agent and appoints by
Commissioner on this
my senator, the
fook into this
stand in the gap for every one of us
Governor is the chlef executive
approval of the Senate every
an integra.I part of the IPUC process
authority for any wrongful or illegal
specifically Title 61.-208, office and
"l 4-203, governing bodies and the
publlc meetings.
This morning I
comments that I'm speaking to
forwarded a copy of my
you tonight in an emai]- to
requirement for open and
Bear, to request she
if action is requ j-red
Commission. The At t orney
and is the
actions,
meetings,
General is
oversight
Titfe
Honorable Senator
case and determine
MY ERS
Pubfic
?5
') 11
a 1
2
3
4
5
6
-1
I
9
o
o
CSB REPORT ING
208.890.5198
MYERS
PubI ic
by the Attorney General.
reply and action prior to
I have requested a written
the Governor th.rough his online process
direct involvement in this matter. This
agreement with Idaho Power.
My request to
I will quote the portion I --
do not want a form letter. I
impl-ementation date of thi s
T've also sent a letter to
to request his
includes
the
addressing Titte 74-208, paragraph 5. that deals with
enforcing Title 74.
the Governor and my senator,
of it. "I
feedbac k
not
the end portion
want substantive
on the actual inquiry into this matter. I am
accuslng anyone. I'm asking that the checks and balances
of the ldaho public l-aw be invoked to ensure that the
government agencj-es appointed by the Executive Branch and
approved by the Senate are af}owed to operate as they
were j-ntended, that the people of Idaho are being well
served and are not being unjustly, unfairly, and possibly
iIIega1Iy treated by this settlement and the processes
used to come to it in hol-ding closed door meetings that
prevented public input and opportunity to shape the
outcome of this very important case. Irm disappointed
that this case was negotiated and a proposal seltlement
reached without any meetings and inviting those impacted
to provide input. "
Now, I understand you could send a letter
218
10
11
t2
13
L4
15
t6
l1
18
L9
20
2L
22
z3
24
)q
a 1
2
3
4
5
6
1
I
9
10
11
L2
o 13
L4
15
t6
77
18
19
20
2l
22
23
24
a
CSB REPORTING
208 .8 90. s198
MYERS
PubI ic
in and you
there, but
from thi s
door meetings to
posted on
invitations
to these closed
comments, but you can see how
in the process. This would
be allowed to make -- oh, Iet
cou.I d and I read Lhose that
to my knowledge, there we.re no
Commission to allow us to come
make any
interestedmany
he 1p
people are
me go back.
1ikely the
settfement,
outcome of
to ensure they would
I am guess j,ng that Idaho Power was most
party that moved to enter this case into a
to l-imit customer input, and shape the
the agreement.
This would help to ensure they could be
all,owed to make a quick and decisive vj-ctory with littl-e
or no time for public response. I am sure they are the
ones that refused to exclude current customers in the
settlement wording and wanted the fanguage that a.l-l-owed
the settlement to take effect even though current
customers were not defined. How can this be perceived as
anything less than unfair? It appears that no one was
looking out for the taxpayers of ldaho, that the
government agency creat ed the public inte re st
the wheel.from ut i lity companaes was
Titfe 61-204
to protect
asleep at
says of
be the
and
l_ he
of the Commission, "It shall
the Attorney
right and the
Genera I
duty of
thethe Attorney General to represent
people of the State of Idaho and
appear for
Commlsslon. "
21 9
a 1
2
3
4
5
6
7
I
9
10
L2t13
1l
L4
15
16
l1
O
18
19
20
2l
22
Z3
24
CSB REPORTING
208.890. 5198
MYERS
Public
Nowher:e does it say make compromises with utility
negatively impacts and results incompanl e s
wrongful,
I daho .
23 October,
made. After
was totall,y
abandon the
that
unjust, and unfalr treatment of the peopfe of
I received a .Ietter from Idaho Power dated
2019, telling me that a decision had been
reading it, it was clear that the agreement
in favor of ldaho Power and affowed them to
program that I used to base my decision to
buy a solar system. They stated that the agreement will
lead to a more equitable and sustainable service offering
into the future. It includes words like approximately
and estimated and gives Idaho Power more opportunities in
the future to change the program again for those who
currently own sofar systems.
I t.hink everyone in this room can agree
that the cost of electrici-ty wj.l-l- increase over the next
many years; however, the agreement that you've come up
with a11ows Idaho Power to slowly reduce the value of the
electricity that we produce, so as electricity goes up, I
get Iess credited to my account and ldaho Power makes a
profit from my solar system. Pretty good deal for Idaho
Power. This means fdaho Power is going to be allowed to
unfaj-rIy and insidiously glean profits from Idaho
taxpayers' solar systems. In plain speech, gentlemen, I25
280
a
o
I
2
3
4
5
6
1
8
9
10
11
72
13
L4
16
15
ll
I
19
18
2A
27
22
23
24
CSB REPORTING
208.890.5198
MYERS
Public
call this steafing.
If it tiasn't
the letter from ldaho Power,
customer care number on the
enough hry reading
to cafl the
to get some -- yeah, I
entertaining, isnrt
from them. I talked
representative for thi s
try to get a better
agreement miqht have on
irritating
I decided
fetter
hear some people
it -- to get some
to an Idaho Power
Iaughing. Pretty
more information
empJ-oyee, their
action, to ask them questions and
understanding of the impact this
my current program.
When I asked why Idaho Power wanted to
change
.it was
customers,
th j-s wording
was harming
created cos t
Idaho Powe r,
customers.
shifting is a
fabrication by
lawyers of
conf us.ing,
the program that I had signed up for, he said that
Lrecause I was. and I am quoting this,"harming" is
Idaho Powerthe word this gentleman used,other
When I challenged
ridiculous that I
harming
word .That ' s a powerful
and the fact that it was
other customers, he said that my solar system
shifting. Itrs a nice self-created term by
and they were trying to make it fair for a1l-
Life's not fair. This notion of cost
bunch of smoke and mirrors. Itts a
the well-paid staff and accountants and
Idaho Power's payro}l. 1've never seen a more
convoluted set of terms to explaj-n what25
')Q 1
a 1
2
3
4
6
1
8
9
10
a
11
72
13
l4
15
76
l1
t-8
19
20
2t
22
23
24
CSB REPORT]NG
208.890. s198
MYE RS
Publ i c
something costs. Their claim about cost shifting is
complete nonsense. As I understand it, once electricj-ty
is generated, it moves to the first point of use, so tell
me how my production of clean, green energy that's going
into the grid and being used by Idaho Por^rer customers is
costing Idaho Power more money.
The appl-ication fee that I paid should
have covered the 20 minutes that the ldaho Power employee
was at my house ]ast December to flip the switch so I
could start producing
The transmission I ines
energy and
that Idaho
put energy in the
Power ma inta in s
to cease to exist if
grid.
from
eve ry
the grid
want to
house to house are
single solar system
today, Idaho Power
not going
in I daho were magically removed
woufd stllf have to maintain
to every single customer in Idaho, because they
se 11 you power.
The fine that brings power to my home
services an entire neighborhood. My so.Iar system does
not place any additionaf cost on Lhe grj-d. The power
that I produce in excess goes into the transmission l-ines
and is probably used within a quarter
Of course, Idaho Power is charging the
mife of my home.
standard rate for
that power that I produce and receives a profit from my
solar system. Now, they want to create a new program
that wj-l-f slowly pay me less whlle power costs increaseo25
282
o I
2
3
4
6
1
over the years and they charge that new higher rate to
thei-r customers.
COMMISSIONER KJELLANDER: MT. Myers/ Just
a reminder and I know thaL you have wr.itten comments
there that hopefully you will also gj-ve to us, we have
100 people signed up to testify. Werre almost an hour
into the hearing and we've only had five people on the
witness stand, so if there's a way to bring this into
closure, that woul-d be usef u.I and helpf u1,
THE WITNESS: f'fI take that under
advisement, sir. When I really duq into the issue with
the ldaho Power employee on the phone, he really didn't
have a logical answer for me. He just kept talking to
his -- staying to his talking points that he was given.
It was fike listenj-ng to a broken record, a parrot, if
you wi11, cost shifting, cost shifting, fair for
everyone, harming. He could not explain one single term
in the letter that they sent me nor that was in the
agreement .
It was clear that the customer care line
was realIy a formality to present an appearance that
Idaho Power cares about me or any of their customers.
The conversation ended with me giving him a piece of my
mind about how Idaho Power is a 1arge, powerful,
for-profit Company and that they were using this
8
9
10
11
72
13o
15
16
71
14
18
24
20
2l
22
19
?3
o 25
283CSB REPORTING
208.890.5:-98
MYERS
Public
t 1
2
3
4
5
fi
7
I
9
10
11
L2
o 13
l4
15
15
L1
1B
19
20
27
22
23
24
CSB REPORTING
208.890.5198
MYERSPubfic
agreement to undermine and unfairly and unjustfy steal
from Idaho taxpayers. After the cal1, I logged into the
Idaho Public Utilities' website and downloaded the
agreement. As f began to read this very lengthy
document, it was clearly -- it was cl-ear that it was
written by a bunch of lawyers.
The docunent was complicated with
complicated jargon and a bunch of new Idaho Power
specific cost factors that are impossible to understand,
Can anyone here on the Idaho Public Utilities Commission,
this is rhetorical, explain to me in l-ayman's terms the
factual- and the validity of any of these fab.ricated cost
factors? Where are the documents that show the actua],
cost directl-y attributed to my solar system because I
want to see them?
What is clear is that Idaho Power has very
good lawyers and accountants and they have created a
bunch of new cost factors to create the ill-usion that
there is a need t.o change the current
Public Util-ities Commission exists for
program.
the same
The Tdaho
reason
that the Securities Exchange Commission exists. as we.l-I
as many others government agencies created and appointed,
because corpoIatlons have been given entirely too much
individual- -fi ke power. Theyrre not aftruistic. They do
not l-ook out for the little guy. They do not give you aa25
244
o 1
2
3
4
5
6
1
I
9
10
11
I2
o 13
t4
15
16
71
18
L9
20
2L
22
23
24
o
CSB REPORTING
208 . I90. s198
MYERS
PubI ic
break. They have stockhol-ders and stockholders Iike
profits.
unacceptable is
states that if
we overlooked a
anyway and we'II
implemented? It
a mess to me.
is supposed
gove rnment
interest of
Another thlng in thi s agreement that is
is l-anguage thatthe fact that there
anything in this agreement is
then we're going to do it anyway. What kind
is this? How is it that a government agency
of Idaho can hofd closed door meetings that
i Ilega1,
of process
of the State
result in a
document that says if we didn't do this quite right or if
do it
become s
]aw, then we I re j ust going
figure it alf out after it
seems like, I don't know,
Lo
it seems l-ike
If this is how -- is this how government
this transparent and ethicalto work? Is
process is kicking the can
fdaho taxpayers square in
resources or the power to
January of 2020.
I brought a
here tonight. This bi 11,
at work? Is this protecting
the citizens of ldaho? This
the public
pass-the-buck
and placing
it, ls a
s imple
use from Idaho
down the road
the middle without the
change the outcome before
copy of my Idaho Power b.i.Ll
as I unclerstand
legalIy binding document and in essence a
contract. It documents the power that I25
285
I 1
2
3
4
5
6
1
I
9
10
11
l2
o 13
74
15
16
l1
18
19
20
2l
22
23
24I
CSB REPORTING
208.890.5198
MYERS
Publ i c
Power and the ki.Iowatt-hours that T receive. It records
the amount of money i-hat
services provided. If I
I legal}y owe
coufd not or
Idaho Power for
did
bil-], Idaho Power
bil-l, to charge me
They would send me
report. I submit to
my Idaho Power bi 1"I,
wou.Ld use that contract,
fate fees. They would
to
that
not pay my
that simple
threaten me.
collections and damage my credit
you that that same lega1 document,
in some ways substantiates the fact
I'm on is l-ike a contract withthat
fdaho
short
the program
Power and
notice.
shou.Id not arbitrarily be changed on
The power biff clear.Iy shows how much
many credits I have month to month.
I sj-gned up for, net metering month
powe r
That ' s
month .
reason
to pay
I used, how
the svstem to
That is the system I want to keep. It stands to
that if Idaho Power can use my bill to go after me
my bil1, then I should be abfe to use it to
prevent Idaho Power from converting alI my current
kifowatt-hour credits and changing my program.
even conclude that every single solar customer
One might
in Idaho
has some basic legal standing to protect themsefves from
the .inpf ementation of this program that Idaho Power
agreed to.
Maybe hre could open for dj-scovery j-n this
process the actual goings on that occurred in these
?86
o I
2
4
5
6
1
I
9
meetj-ngs. We could uncover the real reason behind Idaho
Power's interest in changing current programs for on-site
solar generation, I wou.Id prefer that the ldaho Pubfic
Utilities Commission work to protect the hard-working
citizens of Idaho by clearly defining who a current ldaho
solar power customer is before the implementation date of
the proposed agreement. They can ensure our current
program is extended out to provide taxpayers an
opportunity to amortize their signj-ficant solar
investments.
Leqal decisions in other states have
allowed for up to 10 years. The Idaho PubLic Utiflties
Commissi.on Staff published a document after the
settlement on your website which provides significant
precedential faw on utifities' lawsuits. Upon reading
this document, it seems like the Staff was laying the
groundwork for correcting the agreement to protect
on-sile solar customers. I hope thatrs the case.
In closing, I feel that the Idaho Publj-c
Utilities has fallen short of completing their fiduciary
duties to protect Idaho taxpayers. The cu.r.rent agreement
faifs to clearly identify and protect current Schedule 6
and 8 customers from this egregious attempt by Idaho
Power. The current proposed settlement agreement
includes complicated Idaho Power specific language. It
CSB REPORTING
208.890. s198
MYERS
Publ i c
10
a
l1
L2
13
L4
15
L6
71
18
19
2A
27
22
23
24
o 25
281
o 1
2
3
4
5
6
1
9
10
11
12
o 13
T4
l-5
16
l1
18
19
20
2L
22
23
24
CSB RE PORT ING
208. 890. s198
does not clearl-y define the people being affected by the
agreement. It has language that a1lows the document to
be enacted whether it's lega1 or not.
In Iiqht of this information, the real
question is what will- the Idaho Publ-ic Util-ities
Commission do to fix it. It is imperative that you
clearly define who a current solar customer is, provide
multi-year plan to alLow solar customers to amortize the
cost of their systems and modify or throw out the
agreement before January of 2020.
If thj-s does not occur, then the Idaho
a
Pubfic Utilitles Commission will have failed to prot e ct
directlyof Idaho
unf a.i r,
in their
the public
facll-itate
and unj ust
va.l-ue from
interest of the people
the wrongful, i I lega I,
efforts by Idaho Power
unreasonabfe
and
current Idaho Power customers to subsidize
questions from parties to the
Thank you. Are
case? And from
've got to move
that you may want
plan to stea f
with the decorum
their profit ma.rgin, and that concludes my comments, sir.
COMMlSS]ONER KJELLANDER :
there any
members of the Commission?
through this evening and I
to applaud, but if we would
Please, we
appreciate
please s tay
forward.of this forum so we can move
(The wltness left the stand. )
COMMISSTONER KJELLANDER: The next witnessI25
2BB MYE RS
PubIic
o 1
2
3
4
5
6
1
I
9
l0
t1
1.2
a 13
L4
15
16
L'1
1B
19
20
21
22
23
24
CSB REPORT ING
208.890.5198
BENSON
Public
to caff to help devefop the record is Jessica Benson.
JESSICA BENSON,
appearing as a public witness, having been fj-rst duly
sr.rorn, testif ied as follows:
EXAMINATION
BY MR. JEWELL:
Q Good evening. Will you please state and
speff your name for the record?
A Jessica Benson, J-e-s-s-i-c-a B-e-n-s-o-n.
Q And your address ?
A Is 366 East Old Saybrook Drive, Boise,
Idaho, 83706.
Q And are you a customer of Idaho Power?
A I am.
Q Go ahead and make your comment, pJ.ease.
A Okay; so even though I had a big bundle of
papers, donrt -- Irm not nearly as weJ-l organized as
everyone efse, but my husband and I are in the awkward
positlon of having signed our contract for solar on
October 30th, committing to a nearly $20,000 .investment
for rooftop solar, and the day before Thanksgivj-ng was
when we actually turned our system on, and mya25
289
a I
2
3
4
5
6
'1
8
9
10
11
72
o 13
t4
15
L6
L1
18
L9
20
27
22
23
24
CSB REPORTING
208.890.5198
BEN SON
PubI ic
understanding j-s that under the current agreement that we
would not even stand to potentially be grandfathered into
the rates that we understood to be implemented when we
decided to invest in our system.
Similar to other people who have testified
today, we did this as a p.recursor to retirement, pl-anning
for decreased costs over the years. We pretty much
figured that we would be getting about a three to four
percent return on our investment over the years, and with
the current changes that are being proposed, that would
go down to essentially zero.
We have a son in colfege. Next year we'Il
have two kids in colfege and this was a pretty heady
investment for us to make. When we made our investment,
when we made our dec.isions, we used the website from
Idaho Power to help us in our decision making and at that
point it seemed very supportive of roof top so.Iar. The
so.Ia r and other c.l-eansection that said. "Yourpage had a
choices.
choices .
Idaho Power supports clean energy
information
for you, " and
and customer
to help you
then under
We have resources and
make the decision that's right
the rooftop solar section it states,
considering putting solar panels or
generation on your home or business,
to he1p. "
"rf
other
you ' re
renewabfe
Idaho Power is here
o 25
290
t 1
2
3
4
5
6
'7
8
o
10
11
L2
I 13
14
15
16
L1
18
19
20
27
22
23
24
CSB REPORT]NG
208.890.5198
BENSON
PubIic
o 25
29L
Weff, now, on the website it states,
"AIso, please be sure to educate yourself about the
current cases before the Idaho Public Utilities
Commission that coufd change your expected payback date
when making a solar investment. " This feels like a cfear
case of bait and switch. On September 30th, as I said,
we signed our contract with Auric SoJ-ar, Our
neighborhood has been -- we have a neighborhood
association that has been pretty antj.-solar and we've
worked hard with our neighborhood association trying to
get people on boa.rd, so part of our investment in sofar
was actua.Ily an investment in our neighborhood and an
j-nvestment in our comnunity.
We over-built our system hoping that vre
woufd actually be able to put some power back out on to
the grid to support our neighborhood, because that's the
way we feel like Idahoans support each other and
especially in potential- times of need, so when we were
put in the position of getting a letter stating that al-]
of a sudden, our rate of investment was going to change
significantly, we were shocked to say the least, so from
the Idaho Power's purpose and value statement, 'rWe are
passionate about powering lives with clean, re1iab1e,
affordable energy, whi.l-e deve.Ioping innovative sol-utions
every day. Serving those who depend on us is at the
o 1
2
3
4
5
6
1
I
9
LO
o
11
L2
13
L4
15
76
L1
o
1B
19
2A
27
22
24
CSB REPORTING
208.890. sr98
BENSON
Publ ic
center of everything we do. We al-f prosper by committing
to the needs, safety, and success of our customers,
communities, employees, and shareholders"; so what woufd
we like to see as a couple who have just invested in
this ?
Eirst, the Coruniss j-on needs to respect the
investments of the 5,000 plus rooftop sol-ar owners and
have them grandfathered as al-1 other states have done
when considering changes to net metering under the
existing net metering agreement with Idaho Power.
Existing rooftop owners should be anyone that has an
operatj-ng system 30 days after the settlement is
officj-ally in place. Any requests for a change to the
net metering program must be preceded by a cost-benefit
study that is performed by a neutra.I third party to
inform the Commission of the true costs and benefits of
solar interconnection and to promote the growth of
power generation.
Fina1ly, a transparent
Idaho Power customers needs to
settfement so that aIl voices,
on-site
to a.Ll
to any
solar
part of
s impl e
outreach campaign
be completed prior
those of current
customers and potential so.Iar customers, can be
the discussion. This can be done through a
email from ldaho Power, but the language needs to
be agreed upon by the settlement participants and Idaho25
292
o 1
2
3
4
5
6
l
8
9
10
t-1
1?
o 13
14
15
16
1.1
1B
19
20
2t
22
23
24
CSB REPORTING
208.890.5198
1 a')BENSON
Publ i c
Pourer customers that are being affected.
Currentfy, the 13 participants on the
settlement do not represent this group of potential
rooftop solar customers, nor existing rooftop solar
customers, and the six signing certainly do not -- are
not representative of ldaho Power private homeowner
customers.
I encourage
Commission to embrace its
Einal J-y,
should not have to work
the Idaho Public Utilities
this settlement to determine fair.
through all aspects of
just, and reasonabfe
MTSS LON
rates and utility practices for electric, gas, and water
consumers, to ensure the delivery of utility service is
safe, re]-iable, and efficient, and to ensure safe
operation of pipelj-nes and rail carriers within the
state.
role of you. Let us not
we as customers of ldaho Power
Iegislatively in order to have a
on how rooftop solar can be
power grid. That shoufd be the
be California or, for that
fair, unbiased
integrated into
approach
Idaho's
matter, Nevada. There
be a homegrown Idahoan
best for Idaho -- for
are better models to use. It can
approach to
the folks who
facifitate what is
already have
achieve that
rooftop
goal insolar systems and those who plan to
the future. Thank you.o 25
a 1
2
3
4
5
6
1
I
9
10
11
L?
o 13
!4
15
16
71
18
19
2A
27
22
23
24
CSB REPORT ING
208.890. s19B
BOUCK
Public
COMMISSIONER KJELLANDER: Thank you.
Let's see if there are some questions from parties to the
case or members of the Commission. Thank you for your
testl-mony.
(The witness left the stand. )
COMMISSIONER KJELLANDER: Let's cal-f
William from Sunset Strip in Mountain Home.
WILLIAM BOUCK,
appearing as a public witness, having been first duly
sworn, testif ied as f o1l-ows:
EXAM]NATION
BY MR. JEWELL:
Q Good evening, sir. Idil1 you state and
spell- your name for the record, please?
A It's William, W- j--l-I- j--a-m, Bouck,
B-o-u-c-k. I live at 3250 Sunset Strlp, Mountain Home.
Q And are you currently a customer of Idaho
Power ?
A
O
A T'm not fancv
I am for 31 years.
on speaking. All f can just
Okay, the floor is yours to make your
comrnent.
o 25
294
o 1
2
3
4
5
6
1
I
9
10
a
11
t?
13
14
15
16
t7
I
1B
19
2A
2t
22
24
CSB REPORTING
208. 890.5198
BOUC K
Pubfic
SAY,
good
the
which I
long as
really a
ir, rhe
bene fit .
Powe r
energy
1ike,
into my
I sti1l
I think,
s o 1ar,
do as
It's been
good for
I do se 11
that
thought was
it goes on
next person
I thought, l-ike most of us, that this would be a
retirement opportunity. I -invested
second person about $60,000 or more
good sav j-or. AIso, I
the increase of the
a good investmenL.
the way it's been promised.
feft it was also
property, so if
be able to reap
value of my
woufd also
It's been a good th j-ng.
after all-, I ownI mean.
doesn't, The energy it produces
that is credited to me. Thatrs
the pane.Is, Idaho
should be my
what the net meter
idea was abouti otherwise, we shoufd have gone the
ofd-fashioned way and have a battery pack and store the
energy and cut Idaho Power out al-f together, so I just
think it's coming down to plain greed.
Itrs kind of like the energy crunch of t14
when di.esel was, fike/ 9.10 a gallon cheaper and all of a
sudden, it went up because everybody wanted to go diesel
to save them some money. It ;ust comes down to greed.
Itrs just kind of like playing chess and they're just
trying to outdo your thinking. I have an extra panel
that I put on
It I senergy.
there for the reason of having plenty of
also
make money even if
gone back to the grid where they could
they charge those Ehat don't. have25
295
I 1
2
3
4
5
o
1
I
9
10
1l
l2t13
74
15
16
l1
1B
t9
20
2L
22
23
24t
CSB REPORTING
208.890.s198
BOUCK
Publ ic
don't think there would be all these
sof ar.
you can
what lf
hold up? "
'rA panels
to drive
I mean, if solar wasn 't a good idea, I
solar farms and
or to buy from thatfdaho Power asking people to
sofar farm. I think itrs a
the one that i-nsta1led mine
great idea. Again, Auric is
and 25-30-year guarantee and
He says, "WeIl, let me telf you something.
ball and tried
invest
't beat that. f asked them, I said, "You know,
we get hail damage? I mean, wil-I the panels not
breaks, " he says, "I took a golf
t h rough
idea.I think it'sme on
mean,
cou 1d
panels
t hing
a great
wind in
it and it didn't break it,; so that sold
the energy saver, I
surely, we have a fot of Mounta in Home,
the sofarhave
1oo k
gone with a windmill,
nice on the house and
but I thought
I think it \^ras the
to do.That's pretty much all I have to say,
COMMISSIONER KJELLANDER: Let's see if
questions from parties or members of the
Thank you for your testimony.
(The witness left the stand. )
COMMISSIONER KJELLANDER: Werlf cal-1 now
there are any
Commission.
Richard Kluckhohn from Park Stone Drive, Meridian.
25
296
o 1
2
3
4
5
6
1
I
9
10
11
t2
o 13
74
15
L6
7'l
1B
19
20
2l
22
23
24
CSB REPORT]NG
208. 890. s198
KLUCKHOHN
Publ- ic
RlCHARD KLUCKHOHN,
appearing as a public wj.tness, having been first duly
sworn, testified as f ol.Iows:
EXAM]NA1'ION
BY MR. JE9IELL:
o
record, plea se ?
A
name is spel led
o
A
Idaho,83646.
0
A
o
A
Thank you, and
2564 West Park
your addre s s ?
Stone Drive, Meridian,
Wilf you state and spell your name for the
Richard Kluckhohn, R-i-c-h-a-r-d, last
K-I-u-c-k-h-o-h-n.
And are you a customer of Idaho Power?
that I handed to the
the floor is
I'm going to
Commission is
have to read
yours.
say that the document
what I'.Il call sworn
it into the record and
cover a few points
not been covered
Yes.
O kay,
First,
testimony so
save time,
that I think
previously.
$21,450 and
ret i rement
I do not
I am going to, however,
are crit ica.I and have
period.
f invested in solar this fafl. I invested
my intent r,/as to reduce my costs over my
o 25
291
a I
2
3
4
5
6
1
I
9
10
11
L2
a 13
1.4
15
L6
l1
1B
79
20
27
22
23
24
CSB REPORT]NG
208.890.5198
KLUCKHOHN
PubIlc
I have a master's degree in economics,
math econ specifically and modeling. I used that
knowledge to model my system so that I could determine
was it profitable, was it worthwhile to invest. Under
the monthly net metering program, I wou.l-d return my costs
in 16 years. Thatrs not a really great return, but itrs
reasonabl-e, at feast thatrs what I determined. I then
fooked at the new program and did the exact same system
ana.l-ysis; however, I had to eva.Iuate my system to
determj-ne what the hourly consumptj-on was for every day
of every month. Not many
I had
consumption is
I use a lot of
7:00 o ' cfock.
people can do that.
to determine what my
of every month and9o rng
ended
show s
will power at
This is a
Then
to produce every day
up and created is a
what that
graph that ' s in
system was
what I
the report that
basis, and you
6:00 o'clock in
net graph and I
what became very
g raph
market
day when
ona dai Iy
notice that
the morning
also use it
interesting
shows, the
and
rate and when the power
I'm not home or rarely
quantities of power and
about 6:30. 7:30, 8:30, and
for me is on a dasis basis, as the
red area is where my family pays the
is generated during the
home. it generates large
I also took
Iooks fike for every month
am paid a minuscule few cents.
that and computed what a month
of the year and, 1o ando25
298
o 1
2
3
4
5
6
l
I
9
t-0
o
11
l2
13
14
15
16
11
18
19
2A
2l
22
23
24
CSB REPORTING
208.890.51.98
KLUCKHOHN
PubIic
behold, something similar. The winte.r months I do not
generate enough power. During the suruner months when
there's peak demand, I generate extra power. Again,
Idaho Power receives I'If call it a premium price. I
also took the nodel and evaluated what is the impact for
Idaho Power. Under the current net monthly meteri-ng
system, because I overbuilt my system for my own reasons,
fdaho Power wil-f make $3,600 in profit, pure profit, off
of my system.
metering system,
make a profit of
it wiff take 36
metering system, hourly
two graphs, Idaho Power wil,l-
$40,000 off of my system and
to recover the costs of a
years. No one in their
to recover only 50 cents on
Under the net
system that
rlght mind
the dollar
can make a
concl-usion
make sense
using these
$25,000 ro
years for me
a flfe of 25
spend money
has
wou-Ld
and pay
profit
from my
for me
study quite
that
Idaho Power extra money so
might guess
simple. It
that they
that the
doesn I t
of $25, 000. You
iS
I then
anyone
too k
has a home like mine,
this model and said is there
any size of
I bet
s ys tem
that
that has a reasonabLe payback period.
have solar can guess the answer, which
as no.
peop I e
The re
than 25 years.
system in. Is
is no size in which the payback is less
I then said, we1l, Ietrs put a storage
there any possibility of any size. Thea25
299
t 1
2
3
4
5
6
7
B
9
10
11
72
o 13
74
15
76
71
18
19
20
2t
23
24t
CSB REPORTING
208.890.5198
KLUCKHOHN
Pul:,1ic
answer is no. If I take my economics and fook at that,
what that simply says
system like mj-ne, at a
sense period.
What does
means that probably sol ar
they will move
then wifl take
Power? I doubt
anal-ysis on my
is no one wlll invest in solar, a
home because it does not make
that mean for me? WeII, that
looking elsewhere to return to work to
companfes are
away from Idaho to other
going to start
make a profit and
locations. Who
is very, very
I PC-E- 1B - 15 is
unprofitable.
s ystem I s value
what I paid for
never get paid
They're taking
critical point
looking only at
PUC chooses to
pa ybac k
they've
system that
net hou r1y
care of my warranty? I don't know. Idaho
it, so my simple conclusion from this
home, these are real numbers, real models,
simpfe. I befieve the results of enacting
alI about profit, greed, and making solar
The greed portion j,s that my solar
wilf be only about 45 to 50 percent of
it, because it will not return. I'11
back and thatls where the qreed is.
my asset for their benefit. The other
is I do not be.Iieve as an economist and
rny solar wi.Il survive if the
metering and some sort of a
system, simifar to what
simply at my house, if I
use
system, compensation
proposed.
Aga j-n, Iooking25
300
I 1
3
4
5
6
-t
I
9
10
11
12
a 13
l4
15
16
71
1B
19
20
27
22
23
24t
CSB REPORTING
208.890.5198
CAL DWELL
PubIic
generate an extra kilowatt-hour, j-t goes out my wire to a
transformer, they pay me four cents, 4.2, and down the
wire to a neighbor's and they charge them nine or ten
cents, That is a 150 percent profit and there is no
transmission Iines, no corporate overhead, no executlve's
salaries, and no corporate
profit. What
j et
I've
i-nvof ved in that cost.
This j-s pure writLen rs my
Than k
testimonv.
COMMISSIONER KJELLANDER :you. Are
membe rsthere any questions
of the Commission?
(The
from part ies
Thank you for
witness lef t
to the case or
your testimony.
the stand. )
COMMISSIONER KJELLANDER: We'l-I cal-l- next
Jeff Cafdwefl.
JEEE CALDWELL,
appearing as a pubJ.ic witness, having been flrst duly
sworn, testified as follows:
EXAMINAT]ON
BY MR. JEWELL:
Q WilI you pfease state and spe11 your name
for the record?
A Jeff CaJ,dweII, just like the town,
Idaho.C-a-1-d-w-e-1-1, 1581 Cow Horse Drive, Kuna,25
301
o 1
2
3
4
5
6
'7
o
9
10
11
l2
a 13
74
15
76
77
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
a
CSB REPORTING
208.890.5198
CAL DWELL
PubIi- c
Eirst of aII, f guess I'd like to say thank you to al1 of
those that came before me with some eloquent and very
pointed discussion. I ovrn two systems, one on my
commercial building as weII as my personaf residence, and
f have to agree with pretty much everything that was
stated.
There are a couple things I'd like to just
briefly add given that most of it was stated i-s No. 1,
grandfathering in existing net metering clients should be
an obligationi not a consideration. You know, we make
capital investments and decisions based upon the rules
and regulations at the time, not three years down the
road. I installed my systems in 2017 and I even called
the PUC and talked to a gent.Ieman that was ln charge of
the sofar program who has since passed and I wish I had
gotten it in wrlting, but he stated that the PUC would
never take away any grandfathering, because I
specifically asked him that.
disturbing
in the hen
is the
house and they
all the
got the
broken
also, something that I find very
fact that as I put it, the fox was
Ieft
choice of the hens
ones for what they
put
and
felt
that
the eggs and
was good for
Idaho Power
us to pick up, and that is
made these decisions on how
essentially
it should go
professionalforward without any kind of independent or25
302
o 1
2
3
4
6
1
o
9
10
11
12
o 13
L4
15
t6
L1
18
19
2A
27
22
23
24
CSB REPORTING
208.890. s198
CALDWELL
Publ ic
otherwise people bringing to the tabfe what could have
been pros and cons, benefits as well- as negatives, and I
f j.nd it interesting that they were supposed to get thi-s
completed, but never did.
f would also like to mention that when we
put these systems in, we also look at future value. I
believe thaE there's a future value for any of our
residences or our businesses that instal-f these systemsi
however, if we go with the new system that Idaho Power is
proposing, I don't see us having any maintenance
companres or
te 1l- s me that
guess bas i ca I1y
know, Idaho is
decisions on
installation companies around and so that
now I have a liability, because there's
nobody to service it or take care of the warranty, and I
I woufd say that, youquicklyclosing,ln
a very conservative state and we make our
our pocketbooks, but we
value and appreciate our
COMMISS]ONER KJELLANDER :
from part.ies to the
Hearing none, thank
also make it on the
fact that we green state and the
and puJ-1ing this
Thank you. Are
case or members
you for your
val-ues and the recreation that we have
out from underneath the population of Idaho is wrong.
Thank you.
there any questions
of the Commiss ion ?
testimony.
(The witness left the stand, )o 25
303
o 1
2
3
4
5
6
1
o
9
10
11
72
o 13
74
15
16
t'l
18
19
?a
2L
22
23
24
CSB REPORTING
208.890. sr98
HADDOCK
Public
COMMISSIONER KJELLANDER: Caff the next
r^/i tne s s Jim Haddock.
JIM HADDOCK,
appearing as a public witness,
sworn, testified as fol lows:
having been flrst duly
EXAMlNATION
BY MR. JEWELL:
Q Will you please state and spell your name
for the record?
A My name is Jim Haddock, J-i-m
H-a-d-d-o-c-k. I live at 1738 West Puzzle Creek in
Meridian, Idaho.
Q And are you currently a customer of Idaho
Power?
A wel-I, first of all, I'd fike to say that I
am a retiree and to be honest, I didn't put in my solar
system two years ago to hefp take care of my retirement,
because to be honest with you, it wasnrt that good of an
i.nvestment. If I coufd keep on net metering, it would
pay for itself in about 14-and-a-ha1f years, and I'm 74
and I plan to l-ive at least until I'm 90, so it would
just pay off before I died.a 25
304
o 1
2
3
4
5
6
1
B
9
10
11
I2
o 13
T4
15
16
1"1
IB
19
2A
2l
22
24
CSB REPORT]NG
208.890.5198
HADDOCK
Publ ic
put rn
what we
eve rybody
there were
installed
however, I
system in.
my system, I
are f a c.ing
I'm up here
was real Iy,
here today.
to say is when
really nervous
I was assured
I first
about j ust
by
that if
Wha t
that talked about solar at the time
any rate changes
pr io.r to that t ime
was nervouS, very
actually had it
that people that had sofar
I was so refieved when I got
would be grandfathered in;
nervous, when I put my
instafled in March 2018 and
a letter from ldaho Power
I
date Apri I
were going
that under
that we have to have, that
serv.ice under the exlsting
Customers i^/ho submit that
that Idaho Power is telling
IPUC, and so I was kind of
2nd, 2018, that listed the proposal that they
to make to the IPUC and that proposal sald
this proposal, customers hrho submit this form,
the form that they're talking about.
verifj-cation form, which included alI
there ' s a system
the inspections
have, would takeyou had to
me
net metering Schedule 84.
form on or after the effective
date of the ne\^, schedufe will take service under the new
schedu.Ies.
Now, th j-s Iette r
2018. That was before -- this
came to me on Apri] 2nd,
was the proposal at Ieast
that they submitted to the
taken aback when this surnmer I
read about a new Schedufe 6 and a new Schedufe B, not
that there were going to be such things, but the facta
305
I 1
2
3
4
5
6
1
8
9
10
11
72t13
l4
15
76
l1
1B
I9
2A
27
22
23
24
CSB REPORT ING
208.890. 5198
HADDOC K
Public
that those of us that contrary to this letter said were
going to be put on that Schedule 6 and Schedule 8, so I
came down to talk to the IPUC and at that time none of
you Commissioners were here, Anyway, I talked to a
publ-ic relatj-ons official who was very confusing, but he
assured me that the IPUC works for the good of their
customers and that I didn't have anything to worry about,
so I'm up here reafly just to say that Irm extremely
mystified as to what happened between this proposal that
they put in and what happened between then and when we
all got put on Schedufe 6 and Schedule 8.
copy to the
made another
I sent a copy of this Ietter -- I gave a
PR guy this summer when I talked to him. I
copy .
certain.Ly
and I'd be
mystj-fied
question,
more than
meet with
don' t want
I keep my copy at
to lose it, but I
Ieave it, but what
home because I
made another copy
I'm really
can't answer the
happy to
aboul is and I know you
why would
,hy,
the IPUC which acts on our behaff do
Idaho Power requested and sometime I'd like to
you and find an answer to that. Thank you.
COMMISSIONER KJELLANDER: And would i-t be
possible to get a copy of the document you referenced?
THE WITNESS: Oh, absolutely.
COMMISSIONER KJELLANDER: ThanK you, and
we wiff make that a part of the record as welf. Thankt25
306
a 1
2
3
4
5
6
'7
8
9
10
11
72
a 13
).4
15
16
l1
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
o
CSB REPORTING
208.890. s198
DUN LAP
PubIic
you for your testimony.
(The w.itness left the stand. )
COMMI S S I ONER KJELLAN DER : We ' .I1 ca 1.I now
Michael Dunlap,
appearing as
was examined
M]CHAEL DUNLAP,
a public wj-tness, having been duly sworn,
and testified as follows:
I live at 5256
THE WITNESS: My name is Michael Dunlap.
North Cougar Elat Court, Meridian, Idaho,
and I am an Idaho customer.
EXAMINAT]ON
BY MR. JEWELL:
0
please?
A
o
A
o
Irve got here I
clean energy by
And can you spell Dunlap for the record,
Pardon?
Can you speff your l-ast
D-u-n-I-a-p.
Thank you, go ahead.
They've gone over a lot
wanted to read. Idaho
2045. I didn't know it
name ?
of things that
Power plans
was on the
to go
back25
307
a
o
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
B
9
10
11
\2
13
74
15
L6
L1
18
19
20
2L
22
23
24
CSB REPORTING
208.890.5198
of the solar panels that homeowners own and thatrs what
it's looking 1ike. I'd like to see them go total green,
clean energy they say, but not on our back. Most peopl-e
that went sofar did it help to the environment.
Solar panels are not cheap, about $1,000 a
panel with installation. It takes about 20 panels or
more to be efficient, to make j-t really worth it. Most
people have to finance the installation and try to get
monthly payments that are cl-ose to their monthly electrj"c
bil-f as possibl-e so it doesn't hurt their budget; in
other words, they try to balance it out.
Most financing takes from 10 to 14 years.
On .larger setups, it takes longer. With Idaho Power's
plan to cut in half the kilowatt allowance,
financial payment
that means
and ha 1f ofyou sti1l have
your e.Lectric
a monthly
bi 11 again
on a l-ot ofunfair burden
which can
families; in other
to try put an
words .
used to pay,yourre paying half
plus you're st j- l,I
your bill
paying the
aga j-n that you
financiaL
it's worth
not go. I
anybody go
but for us
into it.
Euture homeowners can figure it out if
it to go sofar with the new proposed rates or
don't think
solar when
yourre going to have hardly
theyrre trying to get the rates in,
cast by ldaho Power and we bitthe dye
Now, they
W.l S
want us to now, they want too25
308 DUNLAP
Publ ic
o
o
1
3
4
6
1
8
9
10
l-1
L2
13
74
15
16
71
o
1B
19
20
2t
22
23
24
CSB REPORTING
208 .890. s198
TAYLOR
PubIic
change it, leaving us holding the bag. Thatrs about it.
COMMISSIONER KJELLANDER: LetIS See if
there are any questions from parties to the case or
members of the Commissj-on. If not, thank you for your
testimony,
(The witness feft the stand. )
COMMISSIONER KJELLANDER: We'1I cal-I now
Tami Taylor.
TAMI TAYLOR,
appearing as a public witness,
sworn, testified as follows:
havlng been first duly
EXAMINAT ION
309
BY MR. JEWELL:
Q Hefl-o, good evening. Wi-11 you please
state and spefl your name for the record?
A Tami Taylor, T-a-m-i T-a-y-1-o-r.
Q And your address ?
A 3299 West Davis Lane, Meridian, Idaho-
0 Are you a customer of Idaho Power?
A I am.
Q Okay, the floor is yours. Thank you.
A We invested in solar in April, a $70,000
I 1
2
3
4
5
tr
1
8
9
10
1l
72
o 13
l4
15
L6
t1
18
19
20
27
22
23
24
a
CSB REPORTING
208.890.5198
TAYLOR
Pubfic
investment.
$600-1,300
retirement
the Cornmission?
My power bills were
from parties to
If not, thank
running anywhere from
as we got cl-oser to
us out, so we
the case or members of
you for your testimony.
a month and we figured
this would rea1ly help
calculated the cost out and my payments are $500 a month
on my solar, but my power bills dropped substantially,
and I that know looking around in this room, everybody
has put a big investment j-n this trying to go green,
trying to help themsefves out so they will be better set
for retirement or cheaper costs in their fives, and Irm
not as eloquent as the rest, but I just wanted to make
sure Idaho Power hears this and that you guys were weII
aware of what you guys were doing when we signed up for
this, an agreement you had with all of us, and Irm hoping
that you listen to all- of us in this room that it is
life-changing if you change these, put 6 and I into
effect.
COMMISSIONER K,JELLAN DER: Thank you. Are
there questions
(The witness left the stand. )
COMMISSlONER KJELLANDER: We'lI caff Anne
Herndon.
25
310
t 1
2
3
4
5
6
'7
I
9
10
11
L2
I 13
L4
15
16
!1
18
1.9
20
2I
22
23
24
CSB REPORTING
208.890.5r98
311 HERN DON
Public
appearang as
was examined
ANNE HERN DON,
a public witness, having been duly sworn,
and testifled as foll-ows:
THE WITNESS: Anne Herndon, A-n-n-e
H-e-r-n-d-o-n, 6110 Bay Street, Boise, Idaho. Yes, I'm a
customer of Idaho Power and I agree with all the
statements before. I hron't go into them again. I just
wanted to maybe add a couple things. One of the main
reasons we invested in our power -- our solar panels was
for the clean energy and for the environmenta.I benefit
and I see a ]-ot of people come up to me and say oh, you
know, you've got solar panels, that's really cool. How
do you like it? It's great. I feef good about it, but
Idaho Power keeps messing with us and I can't truthfully
tell anybody that it's a good idea to get solar right now
in Idaho because of what Idaho Power is doing, so I feel
that that's just not rightf and the PUC is a Publ-j-c
Utilities Cormission for the public and that means we
need to encou.rage c.Iean, renewable energy for Idaho and
that needs to be the bottom line and you need to pay
attent.ion that.
I did want to submit one of the fittle
flyers we always get in our bill-, because it does state
that ldaho Power's goal is to be 100 percent clean energyI25
o 1
2
3
4
5
6
1
B
9
10
l1
t2
a 13
l4
15
t6
L'1
18
19
20
21.
22
23
24
CSB REPORTING
208.890. sr-98
JEN SEN
PubIic
like the other gentleman said before and they need to pay
attention to that and they canrt do that by killing
sola\r. Thank you.
COMMISSIONER KJELLANDER: Thank you.
Let's see if there are any questions from parti-es to the
case or members of the Commission. Thank you for your
testimony.
(The witness left the stand. )
COMMISSIONER KJELLANDER: And we'II caff
Diane Jensen from Meridian.
appearlng as
was exami-ned
DIANE JENSEN,
a public witness, having been duly sworn,
and testified as f oIl-ows:
THE WITNESS: My name
D-i-a-n-e ,J-e-n-s-e-n, and I Iive at
Street, Merldian, and as you can telf,
l-ive on sociaf security on.ly, and when
is Diane Jensen,
2571 West Willard
I'm retired and I
we put our sol ar
everything j ust
was the best plan
our power bill to the
charging us, because we
to build up the points,
to me.
panels in, we
like everybody
did all the figuring and
else and figured that it
for us, because we coufd reduce
$5.25 that ldaho Power would be
would be generating enough power
which this.is very di sappointingo25
I
o
1
2
3
4
5
6
1
I
9
10
11
7?,
13
L4
15
16
L1
27
l-o
79
20
22
23
24
CSB REPORTING
208.890.51-98
313
for 30 years and
you canrt change
make more profit
doing. They made
ve been a banker
once you make a
it j ust because
and worked with Ioans
and I f eel- t.hat's what Idaho
contract with
you think you
s omebody,
need to
Powe r i- s
a contract with all of us people at one
.rate, We invested in it to first make it
green, society and we
our future.
I also
thought it was the
a green, more
best thing for
to go through a
our sofar panels
to enabl-e people
everybody to
they already
sucker peopLe
say.
Letrs see if
the case or
worked at the Iegislature this last
people from putting
year and
bi 1l to
great big process
and so this was I
I find it
put these
knew what
solar panels.
order for us
the y
and I
to do
it's
We had
to get
deal
encouraged
think that
and it was
Idaho Power worked very hard and lobbied for a
change the Iaw so that HOA's couldn't bfock
IN
them and then
feft a very good
who HOA's have sa.id no, you cantt have these panefs, but
interesting that
solar panels up
they were going
into getting
of a lot more
there are any
members of the
testimony.
go r, ng
have to
t.o cosL them a heck
and that ' s alf
COMMI SS IONER
questions from
Commissi-on.
I
KJELLANDER:
partles to
If not, thank you for your
(The witness left the stand. )
JENSEN
Public
O 25
I 1
2
3
A
5
6
1
I
o
10
lt
72
o l3
l4
15
76
I1
l8
l9
20
27
22
23
2A
CSB REPORT ING
208.890.5198
SHEALY
Publ ic
COMMISSIONER KJELLANDER: We'Il now calI
Barbara Shapel.
MS. SHAPEL: I will forego my turn.
COMMISSIONER KJELLANDER: Okay. thank
We'11 cafl next Alan Shealy, and just a reminder for
you .
those
that
who may
this is
want to fill out written comments, I know
probably going
and we have yet
than you
a fi rst
might have
break, if youant icipated
woufd 1i ke to fill out some
longer
to take
written we stillcomment s ,
j ust wantedhave those forms in the back, so I
that to your attentj-on and remind
to bring
you of that.
ALAN SHEALY,
appearing as a public witness, having been first duly
sworn, testified as f ol-l-ows:
EXAMlNAT]ON
BY MR. JEWELL:
Q Wilt you state and spe11 your name for the
record, please?
A Yes,
I live at 2153 East
to thank the Chair.
I'm Afan Shealy,
Solitude Court in
Commi-ssioners for
A-l-a-n S-h-e-a-1-y.
Boise, and Ird l-ike
hearing my
brief becausetestimony. I'm going to be mercifullya25
374
o 1
2
3
4
5
6
1
8
o
10
11
72
o 13
l4
l-5
15
71
1B
19
2A
27
22
24
CSB REI'ORT INC
208.890.5198
SHEALY
Pubfic
people have touched
going to say, but I
thj-ngs. I wanted to
envisioned and j ust
in it.
on just about
wanted to j ust
everything that I was
Iook at the proposal as
to point out one of the
examane a couple of
currently
absurdit ies
No. 1, I implore the Comr0issioners to
grandfather the existing systems for the reasons stated,
but if we fook at the proposa.L, the proposal, cuts
reimbursement rates by about 50 per:cent in eight years to
4.4 cents per kil,owatt-hour. This is a static number.
For those people who
aw a.r e
are considering investing in these
that that's a static nurnber in thesystems now, be
proposaf. That
rates of around
existing systems
those numbe.rs are
doesn't change. Now, assuming
8.5 cents a kilowatt-hour and
cu r rent
assuming
just a base rate of inffation of around two percent, itrs
reasonable to assume that over a 2O-year period of time,
werre going to see rates in the 13-14-cent ki.Iowatt-hour
range.
What that means with that 4.4-cent
reimbursement rate 1s a minimum inflation adjusted
reimbursement cut of 65-70 percent. That is not being
factored in here, so if yourre looking -- assum.ing that
you're going to -- and I hope that you grandfather
in, these people ought to be aware that
going to significantJ-y and harmfullyo25
315
t 1
2
3
4
6
'l
8
9
10
11
t2
o 13
T4
15
76
L1
t
18
l9
20
2t
22
23
24
CSB REPORT ]NG
208.890.5198
S H EALY
PubIic
affect the
Idaho Power
oh, there' s
numbers when they crunch
anot-her thing I want to
is trying to kiII a gnat
them, and to me --
cover, too. I think
with a cruise
missife here.
If you fook at
current capacity generated by
was about 11-12 megawatt-hours
the current generation, the
a sofar rooftop, fast year
about 2,000 net metering customers last year.
or megawatts, I'm sorry,
This year
it's greater, but if you fook at what that means in terms
of the total ratepayer base of 535,000, that's about 0.37
percent of aff the ratepayers. The production that they
generate, the capacity that they have is less than
four-tenths of one percent of the totaf capacity
generating capability of Idaho Power, which I think at a
peak levef is about 3,200 megawatts, so this is a very,
very sma11 problem for ldaho Power.
For them to pewl and whine that this is
going to signifi.cantly impact thelr ratepayers fa11s on
deaf ears here. I just don't understand j-t, and there's
a moral play here to say nothj-ng of the potential legal
taking that this involves for existj-ng system owners, and
perhaps some lawyers are sa1ivating at a class action
suit here. I don't know. Irm not a lawyer, but this is
the equivalent of Idaho Power sticking their hands in our
pockets and taking out do]-l-ar bi]ls, a fot of doll-ar25
316
O 1
2
3
4
5
6
1
I
9
10
11
l2
o 13
74
15
L6
7l
18
19
ZU
2-l
22
23
CSB REPORTING
208.890. 5198
S HEALY
Publ i c
bi]ls, but what I woufd like to ask ldaho Power is what
kind of a message does this send to our children?
What kind of a
to the community
message does this say, does
of the United States, tothrs put out
Idahoans who want to step up like we all did in this room
and do the rj.ght thj,ng, to walk the walk? What does it
say with Idaho Power essentia1.Iy taking a flame thrower
to people who want to put these systems on their roofs?
They'd have to be dead above the neck to
do it, so basical-Iy what this does is it
Power is saying we donrt people to take
inexhaustible supply
done on our rooftops
We donrt want that to
neutraf by 2045, but
of energy, that we
204 days on average
happen. Sure, we
w-a
says, Idaho
advantaqe of an
get radiating
out of the year.
want to be carbon
those who want to step
existing people who did
find that shameful. I
there are any
members of the
're going to do it by victimizj-ng
up and do the right thing and the
the right thing to begin with. I
would be embarrassed if I were
working for Idaho Power. Thank you.
your testlmony.
COMMISSIONER KJELLANDER: Let's see if
questions from parties to the case or
Commission. Thank you, Mr. Shea.ly, for
THE WITNESS: Thank you.
(The witness left the stand. )o 25
317
o
a
t-
2
3
4
5
6
1
8
9
10
a
11
72
13
74
15
16
1.1
1B
19
2A
2L
22
23
24
CSB REPORTING
208.890.5198
MATTERN
Pubfic
COMMISSIONER KJELLANDERI Itrs our intent
at this point to take about a 1o-minute break and we will
resume at around the top of the hour and so, again, a
ten-minute break and we will go off the record.
(Recess. )
COMMISSIONER KJELLANDER: We are back on
the record now and we wi.Il call the next witness, No. 1-8.
ft is Robert and I believe it's Mattern.
MR. MATTERN: Close enough.
COMMISSIONER KJELLANDER: Okay, thank you.
appearing as
was examined
ROBERT MATTERN,
a public witness, having been duly sworn,
and testified as f o1l-ows:
THE WITNESS: My name j-s Robert Mattern,
R-o-b-e-r-t M-a-t-t-e-r-n. I live at 380 Clabby Road in
Weiser. That's C-I-a-b-b-y, 83612, and yes, I am an
Idaho power user. I put my solar system in, it's been j-n
now just slightly over a year, I've got about 3,100
kifowatt-hour:s of credit which I'11 use up thi-s wj-nter.
Now, you're telling me with the short date we have, I
mean, January 1st, guys, is right around the corner.
This Commission needs to stop this immediately.
I have a few comments and some questions25
318
t 1
2
3
A
5
6
1
I
9
10
11
l2
a l3
74
15
L6
l1
1B
19
20
2t
22
23
24
o
CSB REPORTING
208.890.5198
I'd flke to flnd out, and I know we canrt answer them
tonight, how the laws in Idaho compare to our neighboring
states in regards to solar. What protections have other
states given to their citizens who are engaged in this?
One of the things I did, like everybody here, I spent a
conslderable amount of time looking at my return on
investment, how this was going to penciJ- out.
frm retired, like most of the people here,
and one of the things that I had hoped
a solar system for my
by me investing a
considerable amount of money
home that it would increase
ne j-ghbors on both sides
their air conditioners,
it's summer, Idaho Power
profit off of that, because
who Irm supplying the power
conditioner, fike, 12 cents
my home's value, because I
of me and down the street to run
which because it's peak load and
1n
coufd use that as a selling point at some point to a new
buyer that hey, I'm charging a littfe more than the
neighbor, but look at the benefits that you have. This
new proposal is going to take many of those benefits
away; therefore, I will suffer a financial loss due to
Idaho Power's policies.
In the summertime, I buifd credits at
about 8.7 cents a kilowatt-hour and that goes down to my
is still making about 30 pe r cent
neighbor
j ust
they're charging the
for to run their air
a kilowatt-hour. It25
379 MATTERN
PubI ic
a I
2
3
4
5
6
1
I
9
don't seem quite fair.
I think, if anything, instead of it going
down, it shoufd go up to realistically compensate us for
the benefits that we give them during peak loads. Idaho
Power advertises on TV, 2045 they want to go green. How
can you possibly go green when you discourage everybody
in this room and alL their neighbors from ever investing
in a sol-ar system? It wonr t penciJ., and one real-l-y big
question I would llke to find an answer to, I know it
won't be tonight, thj-s new program proposes you're going
to monitor my usage hourly? Come on. Nowhere in the
country does that happen. A11 power bi1ls are done on a
monthly basis.
The only reason theyrre going to u,ant to
do it hourly is so they can manipulate the system so they
can make even mo.re money off of us. That's not fair. In
the fetter, it says they have 550,000 customers
currently. The way this area is booming with the housing
and stuff going in, that number is goinq up. Put
whatever number in there you want. My question is at
what point is Idaho Power going to have to expand their
power production to meet that increased demand?
Right now solar: people are about one
percent of the whole market. That's insignlficant. They
should be encouraging. They should get up to five or ten
CSB REPORTING
208. 890.5198
MATTERN
Public
10
11
72
13t
l4
1B
15
16
l1
19
I
20
27
22
23
24
25
320
I 1
2
3
4
5
6
1
I
9
10
11
72t13
14
15
15
l1
1B
t9
20
27
22
23
24t
CSB REPORT]NG
208.890.5198
McBRI DE
Pubfic
percent of the homeowners be putting solar in. They
benefit off every one of us under the current system. It
seems highly unfair to cut our return in half. As people
have stated, I'm 58 years old. I've got a system in.
Itrs been in a year. I'd like to live long enough to get
my money back. Thank you.
COMMISS]ONER KJELLANDER:Thank you. Are
or members ofthere quest j-ons case
the Commission?
from parties to the
If not, thank you
appearing as
was examined
for your testimony.
(The witness left the stand.)
COMMISSIONER KJELLANDER: Michaef McBride.
MICHAEL MCBR I DE,
a public witness, having been duly swo.rn,
and testified as f oI]ows:
THE WITNESS: My name is Michael McBride,
M-i-c-h-a-e-l- M-c-B-r-i-d-e. I live aL 2502 Lauri.e Lane
in Twin EaJ-Is County, Idaho, and I am a cust.omer of Idaho
Power.
COMMISSIONER KJELLANDER: Please provide
your statement. Thank you.
THE WITNESS:
it's been said a.Iready, but
one who's tried to read the
Okay, some of what I had
so far, I seem to be the only
sett-Lement agreement, so my25
)z I
o t
2
3
4
5
6
1
B
9
10
11
L2
o 1-3
t4
L5
16
ll
18
79
20
2L
22
23
24t
CSB REPORTING
208.890.5198
McBRI DE
Pubf i c
corunent s are based on the copy of the settlement
find on Idaho Power's web page andI couldagreement that
I hope there's
some different
just one copy out there and there aren't
agreement.s, I guess on the positive slde,
I'd fike to te1I you we appreciate being able to come
tal-k to you about these things, and I think it's great
that the current service price charges will stil-I remain
around $5.00 per month, which had been a contested thlng
in the past, and I also think it's great that we can pay
a $10.00 fee and aggregate our credlts and move them over
to, say, my past year irrigation. I have a 1itt]e tiny
pasture pump which is on a sepa.rate transformer and
separate bifI.
When I read the agreement, though, I have
some concerns. one of my concerns, it's very difficult
for a lay person to read and understand it, particularly
when they're talking about on page 5, I believe it is,
the development of Schedu.Ies 6 and 8 and terms like
blended energy rate and the difference between the
current export credit rate and 75 percent of what the
difference would be. It's lust
Another comment f
mentioned that they need to
justification for why rates
see a copy of the
shoul-d change. I woul-d
real confus ing,
would have is
Idaho Por,.rer controf s the data. Severa-I other
firstly,
people have
25
322
o 1
2
3
4
5
6
1
B
9
10
11
L2
o 13
L4
15
16
l1
18
19
20
2L
22
2.3
24
CSB REPORTING
208.890.5198
McBRI DE
Public
encou rage
with, if
supports
because f
the y
their
the Commission to push ldaho Power to come up
haven't alreadyf with the data that's
don't
wanting to do what they want to do,
think it's there.
I al-so am concerned about this new
invention of net hourly bi I I ing .
and track usage
been
by the
done ,
hour,
It's amazing that they
can go on the ccmputer
but that's not how it's
u u.r
tradit ionafly
personally, maybe a little biased, but I'm wondering if
thatrs just a trojan horse that they put in there so that
they can further manipulate in out years something they
have in mind; otherwise, I don't see any reason to
calcufate it hourly and then make it a monthfy bi1ling.
One possibfe concern I learned over dinner
last night wj-th one of the neighbors who was thinking
about putting in power, sol-ar powe.r, is that the vendors
who do put in solar power are having a real hard time
doing bids right now, and if they have to use the hourly
figures of net hourly billing, it may be very difficult,
impossible for them to give customers, future customers,
an accurate readout on what their positj.ves and negatives
are in this process. I donrt know why el-se they would
need to devefop that new.
f am not a member of the Sierra CLub. t
don't work at Micron. I don't have stock in Idaho Power,
I
o 25
323
a
a
1
2
3
4
5
6
'1
8
9
10
11
L2
13
l4
15
16
18
19
20
L1
?L
22
23
24
CSB RE PORT ING
208.890.5198
but there's been a l-ot of people doing a 1ot of work on
this settlement agreement and I suppose it's to try to
keep lt out of court, but I don't know how it wilf work
out. I do have some just barely connection with the
Idaho Conservation League and from what we
not sign
not f air
understand
was that they
to the people
just what I rve
from them is one reason they did
felt that this future system was
that are currently in
heard. They may tel-1
the program. That' s
you differentfy, I don't know.
So I would recommend, as severaf other
people did,
are already
current net
Commission,
there is a
were doinq
nobody was
wiff tafk
you and at
obl- ivious
that the four or
in the program be
metering program
can work with the
more thousand people tha t
alfowed to stay in the
and then you, as a
Power Company to see j-f
future for othe r people
want to
to do rooftop solar or
deal with themif Idaho Power just doesn't
anymore.
Sunday I
because we're kind of a
wal- ked around our neighborhood,
Iittle
solars/ and knocked on doors to
hot spot
see what
for rooftop
the ne ighbors
At two doors
I'11 go with
completely
of fooked at
with regards
home. At one
to this meetino.
door Bob Sojka back there, who
later, one of my nei-ghbors, said
two other homes the people were
as to what was going on and kinda25
324 MCBRI DE
Pubf i c
I 1
2
3
4
5
6
7
I
9
10
11
I?t 13
t4
15
16
l1
1B
19
20
2l
22
23
24
CSB REPORT]NG
208.890.5198
McBRI DE
Public
me like a man from the moon who just knocked on their
door. They had no c.l-ue. They're too busy -- we1l,
thatrs why you only have 2,000 people here tonight. They
were too busy cooking Thanksgiving dinner, taking care of
the kids, watching the football game, and doing thj-ngs
people do and probably didn't spend much time reading
that letter that they got from Idaho Power that saj,d, oh,
by the way, things are going to change big time if we get
ou.r way, so those people are rea1ly dependent on the
Public Utilities Commj,ssion to stand up for them and do
what's fair.
A year-and-a-half ago or about then, I
testified in Pocateflo at a meeting about Idaho Power
want j-ng
and we
to raise our serv.ice fees from $5.00 to 565.00
won that. Maybe we should
woufdn't be after the
have lost, because then
maybe they
now, but at
justify why
more for a
bi-g money they are after
data tothat time they did not have the
people with sola r panels should get charged
people without them, so itservice charge than
seems to me like we're in a big ongoing battle here.
A couple of things that I did pick up
because I read the settlement agreement, even though I
couldn't understand it, was -- I'11 just list a couple.
There's p]-aces in t-he out.Iine of the settJ-ement agreement
where people kind of went I guess that's okay, but we'reo25
a 1
2
3
4
5
6
1
I
9
10
11
I2
I 13
14
15
L6
71
1B
19
20
2L
22
23
CSB REPORTING
208.890.5198
t 25
326 MCBRI DE
Pubfic
going to maintain the right at a Later date to argue on a
docket about whether spec.ific language such as how things
are developed occur, so they're approving the general
outline four or five times, but not approving what the
methodology would be, and I think if there's that many
places where they haven't got their job done and building
a consensus here that maybe the settlement agreement
isn't done enough to present to you.
One thing that rea1Iy kind of shocked me
is on page 3, the energy vafue wilJ- be decreased by 10
percent to reflect the non-firm nature of energy provided
by on-site regulators or generators, excuse me. The
methodology to determine such val-ue is not part of the
settlement agreement, but the parties retain their right
to advocate for a methodology to determine such a vafue
in a future docket was one of them, so right offhand,
theyrre saying our powe.r is worth 10 percent l-ess because
it's non-f i-rm in nature.
When ldaho Power builds a solar array down
at Rogerson, the same clouds go over Rogerson that's
going to go over my house, are they going to decrease the
value of their reduced electricity to the public by 1-0
percent because a cloud went by that day? I don't think
so, and it's not clear whether this 10 percent
deva.Iuation of the power werre putting in there is part
o 1
2
3
4
5
6
1
I
o
10
a
11
l2
13
1.4
15
76
l1
1B
l9
20
21
22
23
24
o
CSB REPORT'ING
208. 890.5198
AS HER
Publ l c
of the 50 percent cut or is this
with this document on how much a
iea]Iy a 60 percent cut
unit will be worth after
them and then they send
I had, Thanks for your
they send
it back.
time, hope
after we send it to
That ' s pretty much what
you make a good decision.
COMMISSIONER KJELLANDER: ThanK you, and
do we have any
members of the
testimony thi s
questions from parties to the case or
not, thank you for yourCommission? 1f
evening,
THE WITNESS:Thank you.
(The witness left the stand. )
COMMISSIONER K,IELLANDER: We'1I call the
next witness Melody Asher. She's No. 20 out of a List of
115.
appearang as
was examined
MELODY ASHER,
a public witness, having been duly sworn,
and testified as folfows:
THE WITNESS: My name is Melody
Laurie
Asher,
M-e-1-o-d-y A-s-h-e-r. I five at 2502 Lane, Twin
Ea11s, I daho,
so it's easier
in the county and I do have a copy of notes
we spent
the idea that
for you. We're not rich, but
34,120 to put solar panels on
we would pay it off ln 12-15
our roof with
years, something li ke that.25
321
a 1
2
3
4
5
6
1
I
9
10
11
a
72
13
L4
15
t6
l1
2t
1B
19
20
22
24
CSB REPORTING
208.890.s198
ASHER
Publ ic
I
328
We as a family made that. substantial- j-nvestment in solar
panels because we felt it was the right thing to do, not,
not to just get a lower power bi11. Obviously, i-t's not
a lower power bi1I. It's going to take us a l-ong time to
pay it off, but we would like to pay it off before we're
dead .
We spent a good portion of the money that
we got when my parents passed away on this, because it
was the right thing to do. We put solar roofs -- solar
panefs on our roofs as our way to contribute to Iess
human-caused g1oba1 warming and climate change. We put
solar panels on our roof and became on-site generation or
net metering customers because we hope that that can make
a difference in the world by -- make a difference
global-l-y by acting locally and by produclng and using
solar power.
Through the currently existing program,
lj-ke I said, it would take 12 plus years, L2-1-4 years to
pay back our investment and it wilf take even longer if
fdaho Power is allowed to give us l-ess than the
kil-owatt-hour credit for our excess power. Our solar
power system was designed to meet a certaj-n percentage of
our usage and it wonrt do that if ldaho Power is allowed
to credit us for half our exported power.
We as a society and as our powe.r companies
a
o
t
CSB REPORTING
208. 890. 5198
ASHER
PubI ic
need to do this now, not in 10 or 20 years. We're
contributing
percent cfean
and reviewing
enerqy by 2045 goal.
what -inf ormation we
righl now to Idaho Power's hopefully 100
news, mailj,ngs, Internet searches, all- that sort of
stuff, we couldnr t see that anyone, Idaho Power or anyone
else, and maybe we just can't find it, I don't know, did
the comprehensive study of the costs and benefits of
sol-ar power that the on-site generation customers send in
to the grid like the PUC, you guys, told them they had to
do l-ast year before they would be alfowed to change the
value of the credit of our excess electrj-city,
Isn't that something that was supposed to
happen before they were allowed to change the net
metering rufes? If they did a comprehensive study, then
where is it? lrd like to see it. I would have thought
that it would have been inc.Iuded as an attachment to the
settlement agreement. The comprehensive study should
have explained the rationale used to devel-op the new
schedule.
We're doing j-t now
coul-d find in.loca]
cu.rrent kilowatt-hour credit
is a fair credit for our
To me, the
for kilowatt-hour exported
i-nvestment in local., clean
us, including Idaho Power.
Idaho Power wants to change
ene rgy
About
that benefits all of
50 percent credit li ke
the ki-lowatt credit to does
329
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
I
9
10
11
t2
13
L4
15
t6
L"7
t8
19
20
2L
22
a2
24
a 1
2
3
4
5
6
1
8
9
10
11
72
o 13
l4
15
16
71
1B
19
20
27
22
23
24
CSB REPORTING
208.890.5198
ASHER
Pubf i c
not seem reasonable or fair. Idaho Power must have
studied the
they want
make even
hou r 1y
change
VEISUS monthly net metering because
also, and they must be going to
our on-s j-te generation throughmoney
and,hourly meter j,ng
that and I would
it j-s now, not on hourly.
Idaho Power
residential solar power
littl-e brochures to that.
generation
for them,
customers because we
to
more
aIso.
that,
off
They' re
-- makes
again, we havenrt seen a study about
like to stay on monthly net metering as
Company acts l-ike they support
send out
do. Instead, Idaho Power should
generation and they
support their on-site
are making soJ-ar power
money. I think that
effect wiLh our bills and
maintain a web page encourag.ing customer sol-ar power, but
I have to say that they do have, nowadays anyway they
have, a litt1e note that says check on what's go.ing on,
that it might be dlfferent than what it is now, but they
send out littfe brochures encouraging people to use green
power and to possibly get solar power, but they seem to
want to make it fess and less worthwhile for their
customers to actually have solar panels.
You know, f mean, no one wil-l- be ab.Ie to
afford to have solar panels if they do what they want to
Idaho Power puts
making
plenty of money off our excess
neighbors at fuf l- rate andpower by selling it to oura25
t 1
2
3
4
5
6
1
9
10
t-1
72
o 13
74
15
15
T1
19
?a
2L
22
24
CSB REPORT ING
208.890.5198
ASHER
Public
they didn't pay to make it.
T expect that there is no almost no line
.Ioss with the power going to our adjacent neighbors. I
do not believe that Idaho Power should be al-l-owed to
change the vafue of on-site generation kil-owatt-hour
credits. The settfement agreement clearly states that
the parties thereln involved .Leave it up to you guys, t.he
PUC, as to whether current on-site generation customers
should be grandfathered and remain under the same system
that was in place when -- you know, that's in place now
and I think that they shouLd grandfather afl current
custome.rs on -- you know, that are generating power in
the same kil-owatt-hour per excess kilowatt-hour and use
monthly net mete.r.ing.
That way, current customers would live by
the rul-es that
would know up
receive and be
front what energy
ab-Le to determine
cred j-ts they would
how l-onq it woufd really
up gett j-ng a worse
solar power on
are already in place and new customers
ta ke
know
know,
deal,
to pay back thelr investment, and if you want to
the truth, I thlnk they shou.Ld geL same deal-. You
I don't think they should end
beca us e
people ' s roofs
it wi 1l- be the
anyway.
This is onl,y
end of
fair, so I please ask you to
reject Idaho Povrer's request to establish newo25
331
o
o
1
2
3
4
5
6
1
8
o
10
11
13
l2
t4
16
15
l1
2t
1B
19
20
22
23
24
CSB REPORT ING
208.890.5198
SOJKAPublic
compensation structures for their customers that are
already generating power and leave us under the current
existing rufes and structures. Thank you very much.
COMMISSlONER KJELLANDER: Do we have any
questj-ons from parties to the case or members of the
Comrnission? Thank you for you testimony.
THE WITNESS: Thank you.
(The witness feft the stand. )
COMMISSIONER KJELLANDER: Robert Soj ka.
appearang as
was examined
ROBERT SOJKA,
a public witness, having been duly sworn,
and testified as follows:
THE WITNESS: My name is
l-j-ve at 2506 Laurie Lane in Twin Eal-ls,
been an Idaho Power customer since 1986.
Robert Soj ka. I
Idaho, and I have
MR. JEWELL: Excuse me, sir, can you spell
Soj ka for the record?
THE WITNESS: The last name is spelled
S-o-j-k-a. I'II start with the most important statement
and that ls that I requested that the .PUC reject and
nullify the proposed settlement offered by fdaho Power
and require a compl-ete study by an outside panel- of
experts from states that have successfull-y impfementedo25
332
o
t
I
2
3
4
6
1
8
9
10
t2
13
l4
15
16
11
11
2L
18
t9
20
22
23
?4
CSB REPORTING
208.890.s198
SOJKA
PubI ic
permanent net meterj-ng for domestic sofar generation.
I totally agree with
Joshua Hill. I also
l-aws were egregiously
the comrnents of the
first spea ke r,
public meeting
agree that
viofated
Idaho's
j-n reaching
this settfement.There should be legal
these violations.
repercussions and
that into a
Let's make one
Idaho Power woufd have never
promotion of sofar power and
metering several years ago if
enough math to determrne that
consequences to
Power. fn fact, it's
under the original net
thing perfectly clear.
lnitiated the original
on-site generation and net
it hadn't already done
the terms of the original
metering terms and the changes --
the changes that
net metering compensation weren't a good deal- for Idaho
a great deal for Idaho Power, and
under the original metering terms and
they propose now
wildly fantastic
are aimed
deal- for
at parJ-aying
themselves.
In this arrangement, the homeowner pays
the fulI tab for system design, materials, and
installation, bears the total responsibility for its
maintenance and alI Iiability regarding impact on future
work on or near the system or problems the system may
cause to the home st.ructure in the futurei for example,
roof damage, perhaps, during wind or whatever.
I'n going to skip a number of points thato25
333
o t
2
3
4
6
1
I
9
l0
11
72
a 13
L4
15
16
t1
18
19
20
2l
22
23
CSB REPORT ING
208.890.5198
SOJKA
Pubf i c
have already been made quite wef .l-, but one thing that I
do want to tafk about- i-s the fact that we're hearing
about developing large scale solar farms as a component
of the ]daho Powe r and one of the things about
that they suffer from the same
other s t.at ic generation system
a cosmetic Band-Aid on their
Iarge scale solar
transmission loss
has, and so thi s
system,
farms is
that any
is putting
environmentaL program to further promote some of these
other rate schedule changes.
If we were here today arguing about the
price of any other commodity or service that had been
lnitially contracted and paid for in advance and in good
faith, then within months of signing the agreement the
selling party demanded a better deaf, it would be
regarded, as a previous speaker has said, bait and switch
or welching on the deal. This is particularly true given
the cl-out differentiaf of a statewide entity versus an
individual customer or citizen with the PUC.
Idaho Power has vastly more influence with
the Utilities Commission than individuaf citizens and
Idaho Power knows that. They know it and theyrve played
their cards from that influence perspective. There's
some questions that arise in my mind given that
consideration. We, my wife and I and our famify, have
never failed to pay our power bil-l in a timely manner anda25
334
I 1
2
3
4
5
6
1
8
9
10
l1
72
o 13
74
15
76
71
1B
19
2A
2l
22
23
24
CSB REPORT]NG
208.890. s19B
SOJKA
Public
18 months or so ago, we invested over $40,000 of our
savings based on an Idaho Power stated terms governing
the domestic solar i.nstallations. That would have meant
our power biII had been paid in fulf in advance for the
life of our system.
Secondly, adding our system under Idaho
Power's original terms was an added value for our home in
the event of resal-e. The proposed new terms will greatly
diminish or even wipe out that resale val-ue from the
j-mprovement j.nvestment that we made of over $40,000. I
donrt think they shoufd have the power to do that.
f have to ask, is it Idaho Power's actual
intent to stifle competition by supressing investments in
domestic solar systems? From everything that I've heard
tonight
i ntent
and everything I've befieved before that the sofe
the individual solar generat ion
of this meter schedul-ing change is to in fact kilf
movement within the State
of Idaho for a variety of both convenience and economj-c
reasons that benefit Idaho Power.
I thought competitlon was good for
capitalism. Why wouldn't it be in the people -- why
would it ever be in the people of Idahors interest to do
this when so.Lar domestic installers are the fastest
growing job sector in the Idaho economy, and it's the
onLy sector thatrs growing right now that actually pays aa25
335
a 1
2
3
4
5
6
1
I
9
10
11
72t13
L4
15
l6
t1
1B
19
20
27
22
24
CSB REPORTING
208.890.5198
SO JKA
Publ ic
livable wage.
100 percent
sofar farms ?
wouldn't we
compensation
be thinking
as we]l? That system of
referred to variously as
total-itarianism and are
Eourthly. wiII Idaho Power give comp.Iete
a]so be getting 100 percent net metering
for our instaflations? I think we need to
about that.
Another observatj-on, there have been and
net metering compensation to
And if they do, what's the
these large
difference? Why
and management is
soc.ialism, or even
really allow Idaho to
there are other countries where public entities regard
what the public entity oh,ns as theirs, but also regards
what individuaf citizens have belonging to that publ-ic
entity as wel-f . Does fdaho Power Lrelieve that what is
theirs is theirs and that what is ours ls theirs, also,
possesslon
commun I sm,
we going to
go down that
citizens? I
in Idaho. our cit.i zens
their frustration over
path and behave that way
think that ' s shameful .
I remind the PUC that times are changing
have already successfully vented
public officials ' insensitivity to
problems that have already been
states. ln this case, let's use
Medicaid expansion. When put to a vote in
j iggered metering
towards its
reasonable solutions to
shown to work
the example of
other states,
in other
net metering was kept anda25
336
o I
2
3
4
5
6
1
8
9
10
11
72
o L3
l4
15
L6
L1
18
19
2A
2L
22
23
24
o
CSB REPORT]NG
208.890.5198
SOJKA
Public
was rejected by voters.
Idaho has an initiatrve process and I
way with the PUC
Power wou.Id be
would hope that if
that this litera-I
Idaho Powe r
grab by
don ' t
has lts
powe r ldaho
challenged by voters
treated unfairly. I
has expressed quite a
regarding fdaho Power
angst to the PUC for
who like being ignored or
process to proceed
enraged as we are
are doing tonight.
to
think that this audience probably
bit of its angst to this situation
and I suspect there may be as much
having enabled and affowed this
this point so that we have to be as
and speak our views rn the way that we
for the
opportunity to give
Thank you very much
comment .
COMM] SS IONER KJELLANDER :Thank you. Are
case or membersthere any questions
of the Commission?
this evening.
( The
from part ies
ff not, thank
to the
you for your testimony
w.itness f ef t the stand. )
COMMISSIONER KJELLANDER: And we wiII call
now the next witness which is Brian Cossins. Brian
C-o-s-s-i-n-s from Middfeton.
Okay, we'II move on to Rick .Iust.
331
o 1
2
3
4
5
6
1
8
9
10
l1
l2
o 13
l4
15
76
71
18
19
20
21.
22
23
24
CSB REPORTING
208.890.5198
JU ST
Pubf i c
appearrng as
was examined
B.ICK JUST,
a public witness, having been duly sworn,
and testif ied as fo].Iows:
THE WITNESS: My name is Rick Just,
R-i-c-k J-u-s-t. I ]-ive at 11544 West Jenilyn Court in
Boise and I am an Idaho Power customer. Members of the
Commission, I just have about 90 seconds worth of
testimony here. I'11- make three quick points. No. 1,
the name of this proposed settlement agreement is study
of costs, benefits, and compensation of net excess energy
supplied by customer on-site generation. I l-ike irony as
much as the next person, but I would like to point out
that there has been no study presented.
No. 2, we instal-l-ed our rooftop system in
2016 and have since added more panels, a hybrid electric
water heater, and a compfete new electric heat pump
system. That alf cost us $45,000. We did that based on
the assumption that the net metering prog.ram we signed up
for woufd remain substantialfy as it was. We designed
our system j-n response to that program. We woul-d have
designed it very differently had we known Idaho Power
wouJ-d radically change it with hourly monitoring,
We counted on the Company to keep its word
and on the PUC to see that they dj-d. It would be onlyo25
338
o
a
1
2
3
4
5
6
1
I
9
10
11
l2
13
L4
15
15
71
18
19
20
2l
22
23
CSB REPORTING
208.890.5198
BENTLEY
Public
fair to existing net metering program customers to be
grandfathered in, but that really isntt the main point.
The main point is future customers on point three. In
spite of Idaho Power's public refations efforts that
exto.Is solar power, the effect of this settl-ement would
be to all but ki]] future rooftop so]ar, decimate rooftop
solar j-nstallation companies, and jeopardize future
maintenance and warranty issues for those of us who
already have systems by putting those instal-l-ers out of
business. Thank you, Commissioners.
' COMMISSIONER KJELLANDER: Thank you. Are
there any questions? If not, thank you for your
testimony this evening.
(The witness left the stand. )
COMMISSIONER KJELLANDER: Teri Ottens.
LaUf ie RFni I a\/
appearing as
was examined
LAUR]E BENTLEY,
a public witness, having been duly sworn,
and testified as f ol-lows:
THE WITNESS: My name is
L-a-u-r-i-e, last name B-e-n-t-1-e-y. I
North Bfack Sand Avenue in Meridian, and
Power customer. Irm outraged that Idaho
Laurie Bent l-ey,
live at 5472
I am an Idaho
Power continueso25
339
a 1
2
3
4
5
6
1
I
9
10
11
72
a 13
14
15
76
11
1B
19
2A
2t
22
23
24
CSB REPORT]NG
208. 890. s198
340 BENTLEY
Public
to deincentivize the ins ta l- latron
solar-powered electrical systems
of persona.I
for homeowners .We're
facing a g Ioba I
more sustainable
cl.imate crisis and need to be moving to a
system to generate power now.
homeowners who have installedIndividual
solar panels have been doing their part to help reduce
carbon emissions and we need to protect the consumer and
future generations rather than focusing on what will make
Idaho Power the most profitable Company they can be.
These productions shoufd apply to existing
net metering customers as wel.L as future homeowners who
install soJ-ar, because the benefits cal-l-ed out by the
petition such as the benefits of reduced Iine maintenance
and avoided capacity issues, as well as environmental-
benefits have not been taken into consideration when
calcufating the export credit rate.
The formu.La is calculated -- as calculated
does not give homeowners anything close to fair and
equitable compensation for the power they generate if it
doesn't include these benefits, which it does not. I
spent more than S45,000 out of pocket in 2013 to install
solar panels and lithium-ion batteries to store the extra
capacity gene-rated by my system, which is more than a
year's worth of safary for me.
My goal was to stabilize the cost ofa25
I I
2
3
4
5
6
1
8
9
10
11
T2
o 13
t4
15
16
ll
1B
79
20
27
22
2,4
CSB REPORT ING
208.890.s198
BENT LEY
Publ ic
energy for myself since I don't have a pension or a
significant retirement account to fal] back on when I get
old like many baby boomers
under a constant attack by
those funds, so my future
one of the lucky
to l-ive frugal1y,
wastefuf.
I
do. Even social security is
politicians tryJ-ng to raid
is uncerta.in and
ones, because my parents
conserve the resources,
s ca ry,
t aught
and not
and I 'm
me how
be
thought my abiJ,ity to generate my own
electricity wou.Id be a great way to protect the
environment, while also giving myself an insurance policy
against future rate hikes and changes l-ike the ones Idaho
Porder is proposing. As a native ldahoan. I urge you to
please protect consumers and continue to reward those of
us who give a damn about preserving Idaho's future by
rejecting Idaho Power's proposal to change net metering
for existing and future net metered customers. Thank you
for allowing my testimony.
COMMISSIONER KJELLANDER: Thank you. Are
there any questions? Thank you for your testimony.
(The witness feft the stand. )
COMMISSIONER KJELLANDER: John Cherion or
is it Therion? John from Meridian and I be]ieve itrs
Ta]1 Pine PIace, Meridlan. No, okay.
We'fI move on to Gary Roeder.I 25
347
o
o
1
2
3
4
5
6
1
o
9
appea.rr-ng as
was examined
GARY ROEDER,
a pubiic witness, having been duly sworn,
and testified as follows:
THE WlTNESS: Gary Roeder, G-a-r-y
R-o-e-d-e-r. I five in Boise. Idaho, and I am a current
net metering cusl-omer with ldaho Power. I'II
L on i, ght
Eirst
and put
of all, I
it
just echo a
a different
rea I1y
really
party
and
few of the things 1've heard
twist on a couple of things,
appreciate
feels 1i ke
the
Lhe
opportunity to testify, but
11th hour. I feel like the concept of due
solar owner. I will suffer financlal-
process has been los t-
to the petition as a
in this. I feel that I am a
custome.r and as a net metering
damages in the
does make me a
only opportunity Irve
not right.
event the
party to
the very
the pet ition,
Iast- day and
PUC does pass this and that
and yet, here I am, you know, on
this is the
had to make a conment and thatrs
o
I a.Iso want to echo one of the other
comments that were made about the actua]- matter itself.
The title is a study. It doesn't say anything j-n there
about changing the terms, changing conditions, changing
the rates. Therers a lot of that in there, but there's
not a l-ot of stuciy, so I think that based on that al-one,
that should give the PUC the ability to reject the
CSB RE PORT I NG
208 .890. s198
ROEDER
PubI ic
3 4?,
10
11
12
13
l4
15
16
Ll
1B
19
20
2L
))
24
25
o I
2
3
A
5
6
7
I
9
10
11
1"2
a 13
74
15
16
71
18
19
20
21
?,2
23
24
a
CSB REPORTING
208.890. s198
ROE DER
Pubf ic
settl-ement agreement as j,t exceeds the scope of the
initial petition.
As far as
about the net metering on
Idaho Power and I had an
the detai.Is itself, I'11 echo
an hourly basis. I called
actually very nice guy talk to
me on the phone at net metering, because I didn't know
what the heck was in the settlement ag.reement, and he
said, "Wel-l- let's pulf up one of your days that yourre on
your solar and let's go through what you have there, " and
he was able to walk me through and show me al"l the stuff
that goes on on the hourly basis
meter, so why woul-d they need to
month.Iy to a net hourly basis?
using
change
the current net
from a net
Wel1, there ' s on.Iy one reason
do that and thatrs t-o increase their profits.
they need to
because
when he analyzed the nurnlcers, he told me my bill would go
up $10-15 a month solely by the change of just doing a
change of how they're cal,cul-ating the power. It doesn't
change the power going out of my house and coming back
into the house. It just changes what they're going to
charge for how they're calculating and when the povrer
goes in and out of my house.
Everybody has pretty much talked about the
new scheme and theyrve done a great job talking about how
the one-for-one is a good deal for Idaho Power and is a
343
t 1
2
3
4
5
6
1
8
9
10
11
72
a 13
74
15
76
L1
1B
19
2A
2t
22
23
24
CSB REPORT ING
208.890.5198
ROEDER
Publ ic
if the PUC passes this sett.Iement
good deal for me and
We calculated 'l 2-i5
technology
deve lop ing
numbers are
you to even
a bunch of
s ett lement
way you
or what
I echo what
yea r: s f or our
everybody else has
payoff. Itrs now
agreement, Gone,
said.
go ne
okay.
Not only is it qone, but aII
into my house ilself is gone
the house, it's worthless to
weI1, is it even reasonable. Can
can thro$, a big Tesla battery or
will that pan out. I did that.
There's no
my investment that I
as weII, because when
the next owner.
I f i-nd some
put
I se1l
The non-export opti-on about the baLteries,
one of the other conlnenters made a statement about this
and we looked at this. !,ihen I saw the proposal, I said,
fn
way where I
here andsomething
It doesn't pan out.
can efficientfy with today' s
I'm aware of, even what theyrre
with some of the new capacitor technol"ogy, the
not there to make j-t financially feasj-b1e for
add and so the non-export opt.ion, that's just
fluff that ldaho Power threw in that
proposed settl-ement agreement .intends to
agreement.
It's not reasonable, so in sumrnary, the
ki 1I residential
and future.
me for on-site
meaningless if
solar power
The bright
generation
you end up
generatj-on, both the existing
Iine that the Sierra CIub told
that the parties agreed to is
with no residential on-site generationa25
344
a 1
2
3
4
5
6
1
I
o
l0
11
t2
o 13
l4
15
76
l1
1B
79
20
27
22
24
a
CSB REPORT]NG
208.890.s198
ROE DER
Publ- i c
systems. If the PUC accepts this agreement, it wiff ruin
local- solar installation companies. f 've talked to two
of then. They canrt go on record because of some lega1
prohibition, and other empl-oyees wiII likel-y fose their
J Or-)5 .
If the PUC accepts
or so of us
systems
the
this settlement
agreement,
thousands
so.Ive the
the 5,000 who have pa id
with
would pay
should be
tens of
a good
for
of do.Ilars each for our systems
from this unfai.r predatory proposal from Idaho
faith understanding that our
themsel-ves within their f if e
f agree
enough .Exemptj-ng
probl em.
This
span, we
proposal has one thing
to kil-I residentia.l-
exempted
Power, but
only .in its
soJ.a r power in
It's
LS
with everybody else that this doesn't go far
me just because I have solar doesnrt
target. Its target j-s
Idaho and I think that PUC should reject thi s
basis of due process.
being only a study. It
settlement
beyond the
agreement on the
stated scope of
discriminatory and unfair to current net metering
customers and furthermore, does the PUC really want to be
the executj-oner for solar power in the State of Idaho?
Thank you.
COMMISSIONER KJELLANDER: Thank you. Are
there any questions? Thank you for your testimony.25
345
o 1
2
3
4
5
6
1
B
9
10
11
T2
o 13
74
15
16
L1
18
l-9
2A
2L
22
23
24
CSB REPORTING
208.890.s198
R] EE
Publ- 1c
(The witness left the stand. )
CCMMISSIONER KJELLANDER: We'll cafl now
Brien Riff.
appearing as
was examined
BRIEN RIEF,
a public witness, having been duly sworn,
and testified as foll-ows:
THE !{ITNESS: I'm Brien Riff, B-r-i-e-n
R-i-f-f, 12888 North Schicks Ridge Road, Boise, Idaho.
AfI set? I just have aI'm an Idaho Power customer.
question. Am I allowed
the Commission?
t.o ask a procedural question to
COMMlSSIONER KJELLANDER: We're here to
take your testimony.
questions.
We're not here to answer
THE WITNESS: If it's a procedural
questlon, we --
COMMI S S IONER
that at a break.
THE WITNESS:
Lot of research in looki.ng
Iike to read an example of
KJELLANDER: We can an srner
Okay. A1f right; so I did a
into this case 18-5 and frd
what typically happens when an
Idaho Public Utilities Commission case is a request for
study, and this is actually the very next case, which iso25
346
o 1
2
3
4
5
6
7
I
9
10
l1
I2
o 13
l4
l5
l6
71
18
l9
20
2T
?2
23
24
CSB REPORTING
208.890.5198
R] F'F'
Pubf i c
18-6 and it says, "In the matter of
Idaho Power Company to study fixed
electric service to customers, " and
the appJ-ication of
costs for providing
here's the memorandum
that was issued and it says, "Al-though the partres
ref e.rred to
t hroughout
understood
be conducted by the Company
parties"i so in Case l8-5,
their meet.rngs as settlement conferences
this case, parties afso under
at the end of this docket. that a
with input from
generafly
study woufd
othe r
are saying that the end
rates.
in 1B-6, we
be a study, soresult is going to
how a study in one
we a-re changing
languageWith the exact same
I rm just confused
resu.It.in a change
research. There' s
procedurally, at
work since their
occu.r.
feast the way
inception, in
they have
order for
CASC CAN
performed their
a rate change to
as to
of rates, and I went back and did the
never been a request to study in Idaho
Public ULilities Commission history that has resulted in
an change in rates, so there has to be another docket
It's why
done and
I didn't
politics
difficult
ProceduraI1y, that's a
there was nobody knows about
lt just
think ln
that we
to see
big issue for me.
this is how it was
seems fike the biggest back room deal-.
modern day economy and modern day
coul-d have somethinq that was this
or understand t.ake pl-ace.a 25
341
I 1
2
3
4
6
1
B
9
10
11
72
o 13
L4
15
16
71
18
).9
2A
2L
22
23
24
CSB RE PORT ING
208.890.5198
RIFE
PubIic
the Corunission
di-scriminatory
proposal in
Schedule 84,
itself and the fact
The second thing
not to adopt any
against on-site
.is it's the position of
proposal that is
generation and this
that it does not cover
commercial, is discriminatory
kilowatt-hour user in a
average of 5. 9 cents
to continue to get
so you as a custome.r,
in its own right.
whr ch is la rge
A 10,000
commercial 9-S environment pays an
per
fu11
as a
kilowatt-hour and they're going
credit for that kilowatt-hour,
to get cut to 4.4
a 10,000They're st i1I
kilowatt-hour
this settlement.
and Schedule 8,
address.ing all
to us folks in
going to be
customer.
residentiaf customer, are
at5
go 1ng
9 for
They're not even affected by
This settl-ement only affects Schedule 6
so by
of the
the proposal itself not even
rate
Schedule 6,
categories is discriminatory
as wel] as the fofks in smaff
commercial which is Schedul-e 8. Those two things in
itself shoufd be enough for the Commission to turn down
this proposal, but frm an existing solar customer and I
also work in the industry. If you talk to anyone at any
leadership position in any of the major companies, this
is going to kill thousands of jobs in Idaho. Thousands
of peopJ-e will be out of work.
I'm a family of four. This is how I'vea25
348
o 1
2
3
4
5
6
1
I
9
10
1t-
L2
o 13
74
15
t6
L1
18
19
2A
27
22
23
24
CSB REPORTING
208.890.5198
RI EE
PubI ic
supported my chilciren since 2016 anci to
without any input and doing it in such
pass legi s Iat ion
a back room
was not involvedprivate meet i ng
in, I j ust take
was presented.
lobby where
the Pub] ic
there, and
She didn't
public to
that ' s not
manner that the public
which was when it
a look back at the first time thi-s case
It was an uproar, because it was
rates for solar, and the result
was proposed in 2017.
a request to change the
was the Commission
decided there was going to be a study.
We just had a little out in the
one consumer requested
expelrence
to see the
reque s t
the first
study
who was
f rom
Utilitles Commission receptionist
know how to get it for them. It's
out
the result was she didn't know where it was.
of the files in this case. It's not availab.le
point of
fight,
not in any
for the
it and
decision,
point of
see unless you specifically
okay. The !,hol e
the whole point of the
the millions of dol]-ars
was that if there was a
in attorney
study that
and that I s
the Commissi,on makes
consumers of Tdaho.
the whole
fees and money spent
we could evaluate it
not what's happening
the right decis ion
It would be really
and in effect,
first
and then make a decision
here, so I hope
and protects the
sad to see solar
that ' s what this
get killed in Idaho
is going to
that into consideration, you
do. I hope you guys take
take families l-ike mine, youa25
349
t 1
2
3
4
5
t)
1
8
9
10
11
T2t13
L4
15
l6
a
CSB REPORT ING
208. 890. s19B
take the thousands of employees that you're about to put
out of work if )/ou pass this legislation.
COMMISSIONER KJELLANDER: Are there anv
questions? Thank you for your comnents.
(The witness left the stand. )
COMMISSIONER KJELLANDER: John Gannon.
appearang as
was examined
JOHN GANNON,
a pubJ-ic witness, having been duly sworn,
and testif ied as f o].Iows:
THE WITNESS: My name is John Gannon, 1104
Johnson Street, Boise, Idaho. It's J-o-h-n G-a-n-n-o-n,
and I am an ldaho Power customer,and thank you,
your time tonight.Mr. Chairman
a legisfator.
cent ra.I bench
and Commission, for Iam
I represent
and I think
District 17, which is in the
it's fair to say that the
peopl-e in
dependent
my di st ri ct
upon what we
believe that our future ls
do today, to use our resources 1n
environmentaJ damage in oura wrse way,
country and
and to prevent
around Lhe worfd.
Idaho isn' t doing
to do
a lot, but encou.raging
the use of solar 1S a Way something and
discouraging
to note that
solar use sends the wrong message. I want
reimbursement to smalf solar producers, as
350
1.1
18
t_9
20
27
22
24
25
GAN NON
Publ ic
a
10
11
L2
a l3
74
15
76
t1
1B
19
20
27
23
24
o
CSB REPORTING
208.890.5198
GANNON
Publ ic
I rve generai-1y reviewed
materially affect other
couple of cents a month
donrt use sofar, but to
especiaffy for peopfe Ii ke
will not work on my home.
the materlals, doesn' t rea.I.Iy
electric use.rs. It may cause a
to some residential users who
more so that we can do something to help
I think the second Lhing,
me, that is not
me who cannot
Irm happy to
very signj- ficant,
use solar. It
pay a l- itt 1e bj-t
our environment.
second huge
concern, and it's been expressed by so many people here,
is how is it fair to current solar users to change the
rates
a fwa ys
for any
s igni f i cant J-y
preferable to
in midstream? A consistent policy is
one that is uncertain and fluctuates
industry, especially a new
to rel-iabfy present its program
makes customers uncomfortable,
fewer sal-es, and uncertainty
reason. A new
must be ab lelndustry,
and costs.
Uncertainty
resu.I t s in a
proposes.
public support
other sources.
Unce rta i nt y
results in
industry will be hurt if you proceed
Iack of confidence in an industry. Thj-s
as the set t lement
I think it's fair to say
is evolving in favor of
that
SOIAI,
in Idaho,
wi-nd, and
As we
you
not
serious climate i- s sues arising,
not sendI would just encourage today not
discourage
Thank you.
to send
this industrythe wrong message and
through this settlement.25
351
1
2
3
4
5
6
'7
I
9
a 1
2
3
4
5
6
1
I
9
10
11
\2
a 13
74
15
16
l1
18
19
20
2L
22
23
24
CSB REPORTING
208.890. 5198
BUSCHERT
Public
COMMISSIONER KJELLANDER: Are the.re any
questions? Thank you for your testimony,
(The witness left the stand. )
COMMISSIONER KJELLANDER: We'1I cal-l now
Russel.l- Buschert.
appearang as
was examined
RUSSELL BUSCHERT,
a pubfic w.itness, having been duly sworn,
and testified as foL.Lows:
THE WITNESS: Russ, Russell- Buschert,
Russel, R-u-s-s-e-1-1. Buschert is B-u-s-c-h-e-r-t . I
have met many -- we11, a number of Idaho Power employees
over the years and theyrre aII wonderful people. Please
don't denigrate them. Theyrre doing in many cases a
really good job at hard work, et cetera. Unfortunately,
I cannot say the same about their top management, so
don't bfame your neighbors or anything that work for
Idaho Power. They're good peopl-e.
My wife and I, we're members of the Sierra
Club. We will not be sending them any more money until
they reverse their decision on this i.ssue. They
certain.Iy werenrt speaking for us and so they need to
agree to a different strategy in the future, so I think
any Sierra Club member that had anything to do with solaro25
352
a
a
I
2
3
4
5
6
1
ls really f rustr:ated with that and they're going to hear
a lot about this.
I agree with what a 1ot has been said so
far, but we're missing a couple of things here. Werre
missing t$ro huge data points in the potential discussion.
When I look through Idaho Power's annual report and a
Lhing called the integrated resource pJ.an, they've got
graphs and graphs of projections, but I can't find any --
we11. of the projected selJ-ing prices for excess power
generated and sold out of state. f can't even find
the -- you know, it really seemed to be reafly buried
down deep of what they're getting for our generation, and
then the same thing is l can't find projected pricinq or
current prici-ng on what they're payj-ng for peak usage
rates, and granted, spot markets go aII over the p1ace.
I have a neighbor who pays $30.00 a day if
he's running his air conditioner down in Sacramento,
because it's durlng peak hours in the summer, something
over $.20 a kilowatt-hour he's paying. Out of the 2019
integrated resource p1an, thi.s is from Idaho Pohrer, Idaho
Power relies on regional power markets to suppLy a
significant portion of energy and capacity needs during
certain times of the year. Idaho Power is especially
dependent on the regional power market purchases during
peak load periods, so they need this power that werre
CSB REPORTING
208.890.s198
BUSCHERT
Publ ic
I
9
10
a
11
t2
13
74
15
L6
I1
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
353
o 1
2
3
A
5
6
1
I
9
10
11
t2
o 13
)"4
15
l6
L1
18
79
20
2L
22
23
24
CSB REPORTING
208.890.5198
BU SCHERT
Public
generating, plain and
This is their own statement
resource plan and so
don't reaffy want your
true, and then I have
right out of
it's -- for
power is
a I itt l-e bit
their 2019
t.hem to
i nt eg r:at ed
welI, wesay
It I s notcr azy .
of an
j ust
with t hem,afso, on
I t riedsee,
this so-called equity
to find the capitafargument, so Iet',s
expenditure number
lines and sort of
for new generation and transm.ission
see they -- in Eagle they ran a big
there awhile back and then thev also
loca1 upgrades of capacity, so when you
new line through
have to put in
periodic lines -- welI, fet me go back.
When Avimor went in, they put their own
little substation there. Avimor paid for that, but when
a development out in Eagle goes in, the developer is
paying to put the focaf power around the houses there,
but they're not paying anything, to my knowledge, for
additional- capacity that eventually goes in, and -- but
al-I I could find on Idaho Powerrs capj-ta] budget was
something in the neighborhood they were bragging about
investing about -- I think it was somewhere around -- it
was over a bill,j.on dollars over five years or something
like that for upgrades.
This is
and I'm guessing tha-"
to pay
probably
for additional customers,
well, you know,o 25
354
t 1
2
3
4
5
6
1
9
probably $100-200 million a year is going into paying for
new stuff, not repairs of existing stuff, and in the fast
15 years, I've been flat or down on my electricity use
and so are many elderly retirees on fixed incomes. We
have done nothing to thi-s increased use, yet we get to
pay for that in every single power bilI, because there's
that investment that Idaho Power is making that we get to
heJ-p pay f or, and that to me, i-f you're going to .Iook f or
an inequity, go after that 50 or $100 miLlion and figure
out a way with the state legisl-ature probably to start
charging developers for much broader impact fees than
just locaI areas, because when we're getting stuck with
rate increases to pay for this stuff, we're in effect
subsidizing these new customers and they aren't basically
paying their way, so the message to Idaho Power is if
you're looking for an inequity, you know, ignore us.
Werre the little gnat on the elephant's you know what
compared to that shlft, that cost shifting, thatrs going
on there.
Lastl-y, we need a new group of some kind
to formulate a long-term policy thatrs stable and
predictable and we need to 90 far beyond just killing
this proposaf. That doesn't help the industry out. In
fact, just the fact that this proposa.I surfaces kills a
fot of deals. I mean, if I was thinking about this rj-ght
10
11
).2
o 13
14
15
76
l1
18
19
20
2L
22
CSB REPORT ING
208.890.5198
BU SCHERT
PubI ic
I 25
o 1
2
3
4
5
6
1
I
9
10
11
72
o 13
l4
15
76
1't
18
19
20
2t
22
23
24
o
EONDA
Pubfic
now, I would
pess imistic.
to come down
say no, I better wait around or even more
well, every two years it- seems like Irve got
here and waste umpteen hours flghting some
That's what we need from
crazy deal from Idaho Power about greed, so again, we
need to secure some kind of a promise from Idaho Power
that they will support rooftop solar long term and f mean
75, 20 years.
guys have
this kind of
the chance to be known as
them, and so you
-- my opinion,
be known as the
can be known as
it's going to be
the
can
you
and
Idaho Pubflc
decision naking is you
Utifities Commissi-on or
the Idaho Power Utilities Commission
up to you guys to make that decision.
COMMISS IONER KJELLANDER :
Thank you.
Thank you. Any
testimony.questions? If not,
(The
thank you for
witness l-eft
your
the stand. )
Rod Fonda.
COMMISSIONER KJELLANDER: ['ie'II call now
ROD FONDA,
a publ j-c witness, having been duly sworn,
and test i-f ied as follows:
appearrng as
was examined
THE WITNESS: My name is Rod Fonda, R-o-d
F-o-n-d-a. I 1lve ln Hailey. f am an Idaho Power25
356CSB REPORT]NG
208.890. 5198
o 1
2
3
4
5
6
1
8
o
r0
o
11
72
13
l4
15
L6
I'l
27
1B
L9
20
22
23
24
CSB REPORT lNG
208 .890.5198
subscriber,payer. My wife and I built a house in Hailey
We paid $22,OOO baeed on what we could
from the system of what it would take to meet
a year
figure
alf of
mon th 1y
didn ' t
but
ago.
out
an annuaf basis. Idaho Power
our electrica L needs .We really tried to do it on
wanted to do it on a
basis. Okay, that's c-lose enough.
even contempl-ate how
Iike an incredi.ble
that would have
Hourly,
worked i nto
the people in
and that was
it,
this
our
percentage of
room, 20t 000 bucks is a lot of money
i nve stment .
Like all the other speakers. yes, that was
an economic investment that we made. It was a1so, as one
woman said, because it was the right thing to do. Idaho
Power hopes to be tota.lly green by 2045. That means they
arentt there yet. I don't know how much theyrre getting
from fossil fuels. Obvj,ously, hydroelectric is better
than fossil fuels, but so.Iar is better than
hydroelectric. Ask the fish. SaLmon in Idaho, you read
aIl the articfes about what trouble that unbellevabIy,
incredlbly unique resource is. The more solar, the less
hydroelectric, the better, Yes, we shouJ-d be
grandfathered in, but yes, the solar industry needs help
not to get kicked in the teeth. Thank you.
COMMISSIONER KJELLANDER: Thank you. Are
there any questions? Thank you for your testimony.
EONDA
PubI ic
o 25
357
a 1
2
3
4
6
1
8
9
10
11
72
a 13
1.4
15
16
l1
18
79
20
2L
22
23
24
CSB REPORTING
208.890.5198
(The witness feft the stand. )
COMIqISSIONER KJELLANDER: Now, up to
No. 35, Carol Haddock. Carof Haddock.
Move to Jamie Govid?
MR. GOULD: Gould.
COMMTSSIONER KJELLANDER: Oh, Gould,
okay.
appearing as
was examined
JAMIE GOULD,
a pub1lc r,/itness / having been duJ-y sworn,
and testif ied as f o].Iows:
THE WITNESS: MY name is Jamie Goufd,
J-a-m-i-e G-o-u-l-d. Address is 1050 Meadowbrook Lane,
Nampa, Idaho.
I al-so work for
I am a net metering Idaho Power customer.
your friendly neighborhood naturaf gas
utility. Several of my
because i-t's a renewable
coworkers went to solar simply
renewabfe energy. We are
energy.
a good
Natural gas is not a
al-ternat i ve to several
different energies, but therers a flnite amount of
methane on this big rock that we live on, so a1f of us in
here, I think, pretty much feel the same, that we're all
Iooking for alternatives, but sustainable, very
sustainable, alternatives, which sofar is, and so since
werve had our system, my children have been revlewing theo25
358 GOULD
PubI ic
a 1
2
3
4
5
6
1
8
9
o
CSB REPORT lNG
208.890. s198
GOULD
PubIic
process.
!{e have twins that are 22 years old, just
finished graduating from college. They're on board with
green energy, renewable energies. They're watching what
the PUC is doing. They're also watching what Idaho Power
is currently doing to the current net metering customers.
l ask the Commission and I ask Idaho Power to keep the
originaf agreement that we alI signed on as existing
sol-ar customers. That's what we determined our ROI on.
appl,es to appl-es for
I have
That ' s the numbers we crunched, and we just ask that it's
ki.lowatt-hours.
request for Idaho Power
I work at a large
one more
and the Commission and that is
facility. It's an L&G plant facility in Nampa. We make
liquefied natural- gas. Our current power needs are
anywhere from $12-18,000 a month. We approached to look
at a Iarge array out there, because we own a lot of
property around an impact zone. We wanted to put in a
large solar array to offset energy costs, but currentl-y,
Idaho Power has blocked any permits for industrial or
commercial- usage for solar. I think that's mud on Idaho
Powerrs face and I hope that they get on board with
renewable energy and so1ar, because the people that are
advocates for it are not going to go away. Itrs going to
happen.o
359
10
11
1.2
13
t4
15
L6
l1
18
t9
20
27
22
ZJ
24
25
I
10
11
l2tl3
74
15
16
71
1B
19
20
27
22
23
24
o
CSB REPORTING
208.890.5198
LANG DON
Public
People talked about,
sol-ar and killing solar customers.
you know, ki 1l ing
I don't think thatrs
lt. I think they're qoing
Idaho Power and want to go
there
to get so aggravated with
off the grid even more, so
those are my final comrnents. Thank you.
COMMISSIONER KJELLANDER: Thank you. Are
any questions? Thank you for your comments today.
(The witness left the stand. )
COMMISSIONER KJELLANDERT Bi l1 DonnelIy.
BiIl Donnelly?
We'IL move to Lj-nda Langdon.
appearing as
was examined
LINDA LANGDON,
a public wj,tness, having been duly sworn,
and testified as follows:
THE WITNESS: MY name
L-a-n-g-d-o-n. I .Iive at 4195 North
Boise, Idaho, and I am an Idaho Power
wilf be really brief. I timed myself
two minutes. I have had solar panels
is Linda Langdon,
Cambria Lane in
customer. This
at home, less than
on my home for
two-and-a-half years. While there may not be any signed
contract between Idaho Power and solar power homeowners,
there has been a 20-year implied symbiotlc relationship.
On hot sunny summer days, we solar power25
360
1
2
3
4
5
6
1
I
9
o I
2
3
4
5
6
1
8
9
10
11
72
o 13
74
15
16
t1
18
L9
20
27
22
23
24
CSB REPORTING
208.890. s198
LANG DON
PubI ic
producers provide idaho Power with Lwo benefits:
not needing to draw electric from the grid; two,
solar energy
the power in
later t ime,
One,
J-etting
with the
the form
SUCh AS
Idaho Power use our extra produced
understanding we be compensated for
of a credit, which can be used at a
at night or on cloudy days fike we've had today.
I think this is just greed on the part of
Idaho Power to change the way they compensate sofar polrer
homeowners. Even if existing solar power homes -- excuse
me, power homeowners get grandfathered in, this wiII
not -- this wilf do nothing for citizens -- excuse me,
for future homeowners and businesses who wish to be good
citizens and hel-p combat the climate change.
I have fived ln Boise for 25 years and
have seen big changes with population growth being one of
them. I have heard an expectation of one million people
in the area by 2050. How will fdaho Power be able to
meet the need of all of these new homeowners without
solar power producers? But who would even
the burden of the expense to install solar
are not fairly compensated for the power we
these future
want to bear
panels if we
produce ?
Idaho may not have experienced the severe
drought and wil-dfires as bad as California, but with
cfimate change rapidly affecting the liest, this may veryo25
351
o 1
2
3
4
5
6
1
8
9
10
11
L2
o 13
L4
15
L6
L1
rB
I9
2A
27
22
23
24
CSB REPORT ING
208.890.5198
EERE DAY
Publ ic
well happen in the future. If a drought takes hold, this
might hamper Idahc Power's ability to provide enough
hydroelectric power for the ever-growing population.
Solar and wind power will be needed in the future more
than ever.
appearrng as
was examined
Thank you for your time.
COMMISSIONER KJELLANDER :Thank you. Are
there any quest-ions? Thank you for your testimony.
(The hritness left the stand. )
COMMISSIONER KJELLANDER: Jeff Eereday.
JEEF EEREDAY,
a public w.itness, having been duJ-y swo.rn,
and testified as fof lows :
THE WITNESS: My name
live in Boise at 420 East Crestline
speffed J-e-f-f E-e-r-e-d-a-y, and I
Idaho Power. Thank you for allowi ng
is ,le f f Eereday.
Drive. My name is
am a customer of
this testimony
perhaps the most
f ea s i-b.Ie distributed
I
tonight.
propo s a f
electric
several
important one, is the rise
generation f acr.l it ies that
not emit carbon dioxide or
Idaho Povrer is bringlng its net metering
to you at a time of great transformation in the
utility industry. This transition invofves
efements, but a central one,
of highly
do not burn fossil fuel,s, do
other greenhouse gases, ando25
362
o l-
2
3
4
5
6
1
I
9
10
11
72
a 13
74
15
l6
l1
18
l9
20
2l
22
23
CSB REPORTING
208.890. s198
EERE DAY
Pubfic
rooftop soLar is a growj-ng part of this distributed
generation.
much only a large utility fike Idaho
e.lectrical power to serve cities and
Power did so just like alf electric
Itrs the future. Time was when pretty
Power could generate
citizens. Idaho
companies did with
enormous centralized plants, big dams, huge coal-fired
power plants, Idaho Power's adoption of jet engine-sized
gas turbines in the fast 25 years or so as a better way
to meet peak demand was a qood move on their part, I
think. That move did not abandon fossil- fuels, but it
signaled a departure from coal. The departure from coal
is all- but complete. The departure from natural gas is
on the horizon, so when they moved to naturaL gas for
their peak generating facilitj-es, that was a wefcomed
development, but we've moved on.
Now, el-ectricaf demand growth ls flat or
even negative. Russ mentioned how he uses less power
than he used to. Most of us would probably say the same.
What is a utility to do? The price of sol-ar panels at
the same time is plummeting as their efficiency foffows
the famil-iar path of Moore's Law. This is a new world
for electric utilities. You are at a point of a change,
a huge change. Idaho Power is asking you to go back and
stay and root yourself in the past and drag down rooftopa25
363
a 1
2
3
4
5
6
7
I
9
10
11
l2
o 13
l4
15
16
l1
1B
19
2A
2l
22
23
24
CSB REPORT]NG
208.890.5198
F'ERE DAY
Public
solar with you.
It's good that ldaho Power has invested at
least some resources
but the world keeps
l-ike these in thi s
in large
changing
centralized solar plants,
room ton i ght-,
ratepayers, c.it i zens
want more choice, more
and
energy security, more of a feeling that they are part
the solutj,on and not still part of the problem.
Ratepayers, too, can generate power right on the.ir
rooftops and this Commission should find ways to
accommodate and encourage that.
of
I thought Jamie Gould' s
interest.ing where he pointed out that
is fightlng individual development of
point was really
Idaho Power Company
industrial-s i zed
sofar arrays. Isnrt that
just what the old utility
interesting. WelJ-,
model says, werre in
that is
cha rge .
We'reWe do it. It's our centraf generating
going to build the big things and you
the worfd has moved on and Idaho Power
system.
wi 1l like it, but
is finding that
out.. I don't think they're going to tefl you that, but I
think thev know 1-hat.
is going away.
you to stop the
consi-der their
with its lates t
The world of
Essentially
world from
applicat ion,
proposal.
the utility in the ofd model
Idaho Power tonight is asking
changing around them. As you
I ask that you not go along
Deny it. Deny that agreement.a 25
364
o 1
2
3
4
5
6
1
I
9
o
CSB REPORTING
208.890.5198
EEREDAY
Public
Throw it out. Eo1]owing the agreement will
bl-ow to these 5,000 or so customers who have
this transition to distributed generation on
on their own, with their own funds and most
my wife and I, I believe did it in part for
deal a huge
lnitiated
their own,
of them, 1i ke
f inancial-
having to doIEASONS,
with the
but in part for much hrigger reasons
future of our planet.
That worfd is changj.ng and ldaho Power
needs to get on board. They need to figure out who they
are and where they're going. This direction is
retrograde, the wrong direction. A new paradigm may be
emerging for utiliti.es Iike yours, Idaho Power Company.
As the utility industry undergoes this remarkable change
we can see unfolding around us, I think it Likely that
this electric Company, Idaho Power Company, formed in
1915, seems like it's always been here for those of us
who grew up in ldaho, it always has, but I think itrs
likeJ.y that this efectric Company in a few years may be
more about transmission and load managemen! and fess
about generation. Who knows for sure, but at this point,
I suqgest it woul-d be unwise and unfair for this
Commission to adopt what ldaho Po$,er proposes.
Tabl-e this proposal. Insist on the fuI.I
and compfete study that you directed the Company to do
and insist as many have pointed out that it be vetted byo
36s
10
11
t2
13
l4
15
16
L7
1B
19
20
27
)')
23
24
z5
a 1
2
3
4
5
6
1
8
9
10
11
t2
o 13
L4
15
L6
l1
1B
19
20
2I
ll
23
24
o
CSB REPORT]NG
208.890.5198
FERE DAY
Publ ic
it is fikely to change in response. I see no reason to
doubt that this change can fuJ-1y embrace and support
rooftop sofar and other distributed generation
technologies, Donrt throw that away.
Just one additional note. This Commlssion
third parties. InsisL that it incl"ude an
where the current trends are taking this
analysis of
Company and how
decision concerning the
ever had up Eo thar time.
43 years ago made
biggest idea that
The big idea was
a vely wlse
ldaho Power
had ever even contemplated
to bui 1d the biggest
that would
project that
dwarf alf of
t hey
their
other
p l- ant
Many
t ime Pointlng
that their
resources combined. That was a coal-fired power
that was going to be built 18 miles south of Boise,
of us who were there and who were agitated at that
were out that Idaho Power experts were not
projections were not correct, thatcorrect,
their data was manipul-ated, and for reasons that to some
extent remain a bit of a brifl-iant mystery to me, this
Commission on that day made the right decision and turned
down that project, despite all of Idaho Power's lobbying
and all of their money and aII of their advertising and
a1I of their experts and all of their data.
This Commission that day saved Idaho
Power. That project woul-d have tipped them over. They
would have been bankrupt in my opinion. As their late
366
o 1
2
3
4
6
1
8
9
10
a
72
13
).4
15
16
11
71
27
18
19
20
22
23
2A
CSB REPORT]NG
208.890.5198
36 t-
CEO himseff who vras a wonderful man named Jim Bruce told
me to my face later on, "Make the right decision here."
They don't have the right idea in this case.
Thank you. I have provided you a letter
that my wife and I have provided for the record. It goes
into much more technical detail about this project and
this proposaL, but I just wanted to make this statement
to you because werre at a new time and it's time for some
new thinking. Thank you.
COMMISSIONER KJELLANDERi Are there any
questions? Thank you for your testimony.
(The witness Left the stand. )
COMMISSIONER KJELLANDER: Anne Hausrath.
THE AUDIENCE: She's gone home.
COMMISSIONER KJELLANDER: She's gone home,
thank you. I think it says Vj.n Van Pinter. Maybe itrs
Jrm Van Pfnter.
Vicky Smith.
MS. SMITH: I participated online, I
decline.
COMMISSIONER KJELLANDER: Thank you.
Christopher Barker.
EEREDAY
Pubf i c
o 25
o 1
2
3
4
5
6
1
I
9
10
11
l2
o 13
74
15
76
t1
1B
19
20
2l
22
23
24
o
CSB REPORT]NG
208.890.5198
BARKER
Publlc
appearing as
was examined
CHRISTOPHER BARKER,
a public witness, having been duly sworn,
and testified as f oll-ows:
THE WITNESS: I'm ChrisEopher Barker from
Caldwell-, Idaho. I live at 2604 Fal-l-crest Street.
C-h-r-i-s-t-o-p-h-e-r B-a-r-k-e-r, so lrm pretty -- so
solar came around pretty early on in 20l-3
a home show. My
into Idaho.
wife and IThe y
just
old.
ro 1 1ed
were promoting it
got mar.ried a few
We're f ike why not,
the wor1d,
Iet's invest. This
so that was Sola r
years before that. I was 30 years
is what's
Te ch
to update our HOA
Cafdwef I
going to
Sofutions
especial ly
to get them
eng i nee rs
roof loads
went
a rgue
ended
cha ng e
and now it's Auric.
I was the first in Cafdwell to install it,
in our subdivision. We had
to approve it. The
didn't want to accept
wouldn't handle it in
City
ir.
the
of
They said that our
to school for civil engineering
with them a little bit on it.
snow, so we -- so I
as wel], so I had to
He agreed and we
$30, 000. That's aand we inves t ed
Iot of
up getting it
money for a
it into our:
30-year-oJ-d, a Iot, so we refinanced,
home 1oan, planned on a seven-year
payoff.
We're six months right now from paying it25
368
t 1
2
3
4
6
1
I
9
10
11
72t13
l4
15
16
l1
18
l9
2A
2l
22
23
24
CSB REPORTING
208.890.5198
BARKER
Publ ic
off and it's pretty frustrating that we invest all- this
money and then you guys want to turn around and just hose
theseus basical ly
rates. It's
home. We saw
by allowing Idaho Power to change
realIy frustrating,
benefit in solar.
so this was our
We thought hey,
but, you know,
first
not only
could we
be able
fami I y,
beneflt from the solar,
bi1l.
we would
to pay
which
ouI power We wanted to start a
we have now, three litlle boys. Now we
don't have to
pay the $5.25
pay for power.
franchise fee.
!,le ' re at zero,basically
Power every
have
Already I daho
single year s ince
requested a rate
we've had our sol-ar system
lncrease.
It night be off a fittfe bit, but we
missed the big increase that was somewhere right in 2012.
It was like a 12 percent increase, somewhere right in
there. It was a fot and then I've seen several others
that have been approved an increase, which puts a burden
on the State of ]daho. It's hard on people. That's why
you hear a]-f these guys with high power bi]ls that are
wanting to find other sol-utions fike sofar, so every t.ime
that these guys affow Idaho Power to increase rates, it
does help the guys that already have so1ar, because the
payoff is faster, so that's actually helped me, but it
hurts ldaho, so Idaho Power obvi-ously wanted us to invest
in sol-ar.I
369
o 1
2
3
4
5
6
1
8
9
10
11
T2t13
t4
15
16
71
18
r9
2A
27
22
23
CSB REPORTING
208.890.5198
BARKER
Public
gave us a 30
reached their
just take that money back.
back, so itrs essentially
The government did, too. Thatrs why they
percent Lax credit, so now Idaho Power
quota on sofar customers, they'-re trying to
They're trying to get it
going to hur:t Idaho, so
now /
my
this
so I'm
proper:ty. I
I want to
on a f 1tt le
biggest
home the
going to
was born
do the same
farm, maybe
toys, and I'
increaslng the
worth as much,
concern here is I'm not
rest of my -Iife. I'm
want to build a house
in the country outs ide
going to }ive
only 36 right
on a piece of
of Eruitland.
and have them
tn
thlng with my
have a little
Now my
value
property for a shop for my
home .
kids
m going to want to sell my
thatsolar system f was looking at
of my home, now
a burden on
it's not going to be
me as well, soso that's
essentially that solar system, if this program goes
through, my solar system .is worthless to the next person,
because there is nothing in this contract or in this
proposal about what happens to transfer/ so we're talking
about new customers and exi-sting customers, but what
about the existing systems that we've already got on our
home s ?
'Those systems need to be ab-Ie to transfer
to the next per:son and maintain the existing schedule
that we have right now, so right now I was on Scheduleo2-5
370
o 1
2
3
4
5
6
1
I
9
10
o
t2
13
14
15
16
11
11
2L
18
19
20
?2
24
84, you guys are
I want to keep 84
change it to ScheduJ-e 6 and 8,
keep 84 for the system, not
the home, the next person that
84 as we1l. It's a one-to-one
trylng to
and also
for just me. so if I
has the home needs to
credit, not just me,
probabfy four to f ive
individual person
itself as a whole.
sell
h ave
because I plan on selling my home j-n
years, so j-t ' s
to have sola r
in a couple of
not a benefiL for
younger people 11ke me
this schedule, because
this horne, so I think
grandfathered in, it's
it's grandfathered i nto
take that into account
that not.
f via s
on 1y
that whoeve r
afready to
years, I rm
just keep
out of
guys deny
not onfy
the person,
should you
lt, you guys should tell- them
not grandfathered into
This goes a lot deeper
who owns
the system and
and think about
the sys t em.
told 25-year
you guys need lo
those things.
than just an
Itrs the system
life expectancy on
my system or guarantee on my system, but they also tofd
Before me or
are expected
one iLem,
bef ore 2 01- 3
to last,
so they
when I
can go for
instal-l-ed
Iong time.
system,
a credit
me 110 -yea r
long these
investment
Idaho Power
where they
generated.
life expectancy on the panels. That's how
there ' s a fot ofSO
an a
my
doused to be abfe to used to
actuaffy gave you money for the power that you
It wasn't just a credi-t.
Obviously, they caught on to that rea11ya25
37 r BARKER
Pub I 1c
CSB REPORTING
208.890.5198
o 1
2
3
4
5
6
1
B
9
10
11
72
o 13
t4
15
l6
t1
18
l9
?,4
2L
22
23
24
CSB REPORT]NG
208.890.5198
BARKER
Pubf i c
fast because they saw what was happening, and so they
changed it t.o a c:ne-to-one credit because they thought
that they could benefit a fittle bit from it. I donrt
think they expected it to take off l-ike it did, so what I
would request from you guys is to help younger
generations like me and protect us agaj-nst our
investments, against Idaho Power from taking our
investments away from us, so there's a lot more at stake
than just five, ten years down the road. There's a Iong
time and I'm an example on that, so I hope you guys
consider that.
COMMISSIONER K,JELLANDER: Are there any
questions? Thank you for your testimony.
THE AUDIENCE: I have a questj-on-
COMMISSIONER KJELLANDER: We're not
opening up questions to people in the audience. I was
looking at the parties, so thank you for your
testimony.
THE WITNESS:
(The witnes s
COMMISSIONER
to testify is Bj-II Robison.
f or Bil-l- Robison.
'Ihank you.
left the stand. )
KJELLANDER: The next person
Bill Robison. One more time
Next Joseph Arlmitsu. Joseph Arimitsu?
Nathan Johnston. Nathan Johnston.a 25
a 1
2
3
4
5
6
1
8
9
10
11
l2
o 13
l4
15
L6
71
18
19
20
2L
22
23
24
o
CSB REPORTING
208.890.5198
PARKER
PubI ic
Terry Maret.
Linda Aman .
Robert Parker.
appear.rng as
was examined
ROBERT PARKER,
a public w.itness, having been duly sworn,
and testified as foLfows:
THE WITNESS: My name
R-o-b-e-r-t P-a-r-k-e-r. I live at
is Robert Parker,
2 5518 Kingsbury Road
in Middleton. There is an articLe that came out
on the Cornmission might not beyesterday that the
aware of, as uiell
that I would li ke
people
as the members of the audj-ence here,
to mentlon. Itrs from the proceedings
of the Nationaf Academy of
of America.
MR. JEWELL:
real quick? Where did you
THE hI]TNESS:
Middleton.
Sciences of the United States
Excuse me, may I j-nterrupt
say that you lived?
25518 Kingsbury Road,
MR. JEWELL: Middfeton, okay. and you are
an Idaho Power customer?
THE WITNESS: Yes, sorry.
MR. JEWELL: Okay, thank you.
THI WITNESS: The .title of this artic]-e is25
31 3
o 1
2
3
4
5
6
1
8
9
10
11
72
13I
15
76
11
74
18
2A
2T
22
23
24
l9
CSB REPORTING
208.890.5198
31 4
called Tracking erni ssi oas
Itrs of note because both
mentioned in here a couple
read an artic.Ie Lhat talks
of brings some of this to
(inaudible) . Let me find
cal-led Huge Var iat ions .
that ' s exported -- okay,
in r-he US efectricity systen.
Idaho and Idaho Power are
of ti-mes, and f would like to
about thi-s article that kind
fruition, my point of
this. There's a section here
Most of the Iow emission power
most of the l-ow emissions power
thatrs exported comes from the Pacific Northwest's
abundant hydropower, whil-e the Rocky Mountain area
exports electricity with the hlghest associated
emissions. That l-eads to some striking asymmetricies.
Locaf generation in the hydro-rich Idaho Power Company
has embodied emissions of only 71 kilograms per
megawatt-hour, whiJ-e the imports coming primarily from
the Rocky Mountain states have a carbon of 625 kilograms
per megawatt-hour.
I did a littfe bit of math and that's an
880 percent increase in, basical.ly in, dirtier power and
thatrs over hydroelectric versus having to import from
their other sources that they do when they need to import
it. They have an option on the plate with us, with
so.Lar, where they could drop those ridiculousl-y Iow rates
of 7L per hour to even cheaper, but they're making a
decision if this goes through to not do that and go with
PARKER
PubI ic
I 25
t 1
2
3
4
5
6
1
I
9
10
t-1
l?t t-3
l4
15
t6
T1
18
19
20
2L
??
23
24
a
CSB REPORTING
208.890.sr98
PARKER
Pubfic
power that's much, much, much dirtier.
While I've heard several- people
that Idaho Power has stated plans
he re
tonight say
by 2045, but
ago, j-f they
the numbers
go green
whi Ie
the market,
choose to go
to
as the representative said a little
do this to solar. it wiII kil}
are black and white, and instead
with dirtj-er power, I think the message is clear that
Idaho Power and the State of Idaho, if they don't do
something about this or if they allow it to go through,
have l-ess than zero interest in going solar. Thatrs j-t.
I can give this article to you if you want.
COMMISSIONER KJELLANDER: Thank you.
Since you referenced it, 1 think it would be worthwhile
to include it in the record. Thank you and we appreciate
your testimony.
(The witness feft the stand. )
COMMISSIONER K,.IELLANDER: f can' t make out
the next name, but j-t's the resident of 2000 South
Longmont in Boise. I think the last name might be 8e11.
2000 South Longmont in Boise.
Werll- move to the next name Lisa Hecht.
315
o 1
2
3
4
5
6
1
8
9
t
CSB REPORTING
208.890. s198
31 6 HECHT
Public
LISA HECHT,
a public witness, having been duly sworn,appearang as
was examined arld testified as follows:
THE WITNESS: My name is Lisa Hecht, fast
name H-e-c-h-t. I am an Idaho Power customer who resides
at 4920 East Sagewood Drive. Boise, Idaho, 83716.
Honorabfe PUC Coruniss.ioners,
to the Idaho public to ensure
provided with fair, just, and
utif ities granted monopolies
thank you for your service
that Idaho citizens are
reasonabfe treatment by
and regulated under the PUC.
hearing as
Power's IRP
the mother
I bring multiple viewpoints to this
an electrical engineer, an attendee of Idaho
ot two young adults, 23 and 26, and as someone
the IPCC reports, the Eourth Nationaf
sessions, a net metering customer since 2016,
who has read
Climate Assessment, hafved her
and who hoJ-ds great concern for
personal carbon footprint,
our children and all of
First, the positive. f'm pleased that
this proposed settfement keeps demand charges the same,
rrhich will continue to align cost with usage, incenting
efficiency, and benefiting all customers.
I'm going to be as brief I can having
submitted written comments. There are three things I'mo
L0
11
l2
13
14
15
16
L',t
18
19
20
2L
1n
23
24
25
o I
2
3
4
5
6
1
o
9
10
11
72
o 13
1.4
15
76
t1
18
l9
20
2l
??
23
?,4
CSB REPORTING
208.890.5198
HECHT
Pubfic
asking for in
the benefits
s umma ry .
of solar:.
One is to complete the study of
Ther:e are some that are rnissing,
Secondly, existing users must besome important ones.
grandfathered. I'll
Thirdly, we need to
say
think
more about all of these.
this ruling on the future for Idaho and
deeply about the impacts of
for the world.
generation was
was the
the benefits of
Some of those
My testimony regards the proposed
settlement for IPC-E-18-15, whose study is, as has been
previously mentioned, study of costs, benefits, and
compensation of net excess energy supplied by customer:
on-site generation.
direct the
The very
of that customer
title implies that
determining the val-ue
important in
conclusion of
opening this case, so what
the costs and especia 1Iy
us ?that net excess energy supplied by
val-ues have been assigned values of
va.l-ues. How, then, can the compensation values possibly
being calcufated?
My
zero, some of those
is that the PUC
the evaluation by
assagnrng
of sol-ar
s.r gn r ng
mutu a 11y
meter i ng,
mrss rng
Those
benef its
be
flrst ask, therefore,
parties to complete
agreed-to vafues on
solar net meteri-ng.
avoided T&D capacity
may
andsignificant and include
environmental benef its.AvolCed
particular could be signi f i cant
T&D capacity in
va.Iue s ince Idaho Powero25
311
o 1
3
4
5
6
1
8
9
10
11
72
o 13
t4
15
76
l7
1B
19
20
27
22
23
24
o
CSB REPORTINC
208.890. 5198
HECHT
Pubfic
assesses thei-r T&D costs at two-thirds of total costs of
providing electricity.
These missing
if not now, concurrentl-y with
those updates to export
determined jointly wlt.h
values could be determined,
the next IRP cycfe and
credit in Sect.ion C should be
at Ieast the current intervenors,
preferably by an independent third party.
Given that the foundation for identifying
val-ues of sol-ar exists, it should be possible to include
aII values. After all, Idaho Power has been party to an
Oregon PUC resource value of solar study for years, sj.nce
I believe at least 2014 or '15, and tonight in Oregon
with the Oregon PUC, there will- be a public meeting
sununarizing the filings, addressing the status of those,
and outfining next steps on the value, resource value, of
solar in Oregon with their PUC.
I'd also mention tn 2011 , 28 vafuation
studies were proposed around the country, pending or
decided in 28 states and D.C., so therers pl-enty of
information on that, That's item one. Item two is the
issue of grandfathering was not addressed in the
settfement. My guess is that considering what happened
in Nevada with net metering, that was what you'd calL an
Idaho hot potato.
As a net meterinq customer since 2016, f
318
a 1
2
3
4
5
6
1
8
o
10
11
l2
o 13
l4
15
16
\7
18
t9
2A
2t
22
23
24
CSB REPORTING
208 .890.5198
HECHT
PubIic
urge you rn
net metering
designs and
the sLrongest terms t.o grandfather
customers under the program which
existing
drove the
installaLions oI their systems. Around the
U.S., in other states, 20 years from instal-lation has
been a frequent grandfathering period, such as in Nevada
in 2076, and that coincides with the expected minimum
guaranteed l-ifetlme of most solar PV panel systems. That
grandfathering should fol-l-ow our accounts, if not our
addresses, as was previously mentioned.
Existing customers must be grandfathered
and i-t is all about fairness. We who instafled sofar on
our homes
with I daho
don't practically have the option of a contract
Power, because a PPA would be far too
f or homeowners and sma]-] business owners.expenslve
Therefore,only the Idaho PUC the value of
j ust, and
can p.rotect
it is f air,our investment to ensure that
reasonabl-e to families and smalf businesses who invested
their hard-earned dof l-ars in cleaner energy for
themsefves, their neighborhood, and ultimately the world.
I wanted to do my part for my daughters, community, and
the world sj-nce we have under 10 years to massively
reduce our carbon output and e.l-ectric generation is
Ameri-ca's No. 2 source of carbon emissions at about 28
percent last I checked.
Our lnvestment will continue to benefitt25
319
I 1
2
3
4
5
6
1
I
9
10
11
t2t13
t4
15
I6
71
18
19
20
27
22
23
24
CSB REPORTING
208.890.s198
HECH T
Public
other customers for the lifetime of the panel, and as the
study found, those benefits include avoided generation,
sj-gnificant potentiafly avoided T&D losses since
generation and load are co-located, and fower demand for
much of peak since peak demand Iargely coincides with
peak solar generation and since peak load drives Idaho
Povrer generation investments.
An important
touched on I'd like to delve
one that ' s been briefly
into a littl-e more deeply is
that the break-even time of the sofar investment depends
in part on home resale vafue. That certainfy was part of
my calculation. What happens to resale value if we can't
grandfather or if the system value is modified? On
average, across the U.S., solar PV j"nvestments raj-se
value by 4.1 percent, but if net metering compensation
rules change frequentfy, uncertaj-nty destroys that value.
Regarding precedents, a Nevada district
judge determined in 20L6 that fairness meant respecting
the rights of those who invested their personal money in
solar PV energy systems that benefj-ted the entire system.
Nevada PUC chair Paul Thomsen resigned in May 2OL'l afler
the PUC's decision to lower net metering rates and not
grandfather existing customers, because Nevada has
expressed their feel-ing that it was profoundly unjust.
Net metering 1s a program and our so.Iar PVo
380
o 1
2
3
4
5
6
1
I
9
10
o
11
l2
13
14
15
16
l1
2A
t9
2L
1B
22
23
24
CSB REPORTING
208.890.5198
H ECHT
Public
designs are built on the premise and rules,especlally
support thethe economics/ .t monthly
motion to grandfather new
net nretering. 1
customers untif or a fter
January of 2O2O or when the ruling -- I think it was 30
days after the ruling was complete. I'ff have to
doubl-e-check.
I have also accrued nearly 2,200
kilowatt-hours in accumulated credits under the existing
rules, r.rorth $176 at ej.ght cents per kil-owatt-hour. This
is another value I'd Iike to have the possibility of
eventuall-y recouping through grandfathering.
Lastly, I invite you to join me in my
perspective as a mother of two 20 somethings and a
concerned ci-tizen who has read the IPCC and National
Climate Assessment reports with great concern and
determination to get us al-f to safe harbor by cleaning up
our efectric energy ASAP.
Per lPCC models to achieve carbon
neutralj-ty by 2050, we must el-iminate coal-burning and
reduce natural gas by 80 percent. Solar must grow
significantly to replace them, along with wind, battery,
and other storage. Here's the question for Idaho and the
PUCi Do we want that solar on existing rooftops and
buif t space or covering Idaho I s precj.ous farm.l-and or wild
places? How wif l- Idaho Power achieve its goal of 100a25
381
o
o
1
2
3
4
5
6
1
I
9
10
l1
l2
13
15
16
l1
74
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
CSB REPORT ING
208.890.519E
HECHT
Public
ha ]f of Idaho Power's
percent
roo ftop
impacted in
g.rown about
impact ing
po1es, and
generation
timJ.ng and
c]-ean electri city by 204 5 without the help of
generat j a,n ?
The hydrological cycles that provide about
have al-ready been
extremes. Eires have
Interagency Fire Center,
of
terms of
4X per the Natlonal
Idaho Power's transmlssion and distribution
ext inct i on,
salmon, as we know, are on the brink
so here's another possibility that solar on
rooftops holds: Vermont's Green Mountain Power, a
B-corporation, entered into a cooperative
customers who use -- to use batteries to
agreement with
sh ave
In fact, I discussed this with Mr. Richens at
peak load.
Idaho
Power.
What vafue might such a program hold for
Idahoans? Idaho Power wants to see electric vehicle
adoption grow. EVs also have batteries which couLd be
used cooperatively to meet load. When we don't put a
financial value on all the benefits of sofar and other
forms of customer net metering, this discourages its use
at a time when we must prepare to ramp it up. We can
onfy determine what is fair to a.l-l- customers by
estabfishing a fuf l- and fair, agreed-upon valuation among
all parties to the case.
What options might we be foreclosing witht25
382
o 1
2
3
4
5
6
-t
B
9
10
11
L2
o 13
74
15
16
L1
18
19
20
2-t
22
23
24
o
CSB RE PORT ING
208.890.5198
HECHT
Publ ic
negative terms for solar net metering customers? If we
thereby dlscour:age solar now by punishing those who tried
to do right, many according to their highest values, what
recourse wiJ-l we have to achieve the required clean
energy balance mandated by physics as l-aid out by the
IPCC and NCA SCientiStS?
In surunary, we all have the most to ga.in
through a cooperative relat.ionship between Idaho Power
and net generation customers in acceferating a clean
energy future by ful1y valuing not only what Idaho Power
provides, but afso what net generation customers provide,
now and in the future, and incentivizing thati otherwise,
those who can will leave the grid and the.re may be pushes
for free market competitj-on in the electric sector as in
Texas. Thank you.
COMMISSIONER K,IELLANDER: Thank you. Are
there any questions? Appreciate your testimony and thank
you .
(The witness left the stand. )
COMMISS]ONER KJELLANDERi At this point
it's our intention to take a 1o-minute break and we will
reassume at 11:10.
(Recess. )
COMMISSIONER KJELLANDER: AJ-1 right, we
wifl go back on the record. Again, I appreciate aII of25
383
t 1
2
3
4
5
6
1
I
9
10
11
72
o 13
t4
15
16
71
r8
19
2A
27
22
23
24
CSB REPORT]NG
208.890.s198
GAINS
Publ ic
your willingness to stay through and we'11 continue to
plow through the List, and now that werre back on the
record, werre ready to cal-f our next witness and itts
No. 56. trle have Charles Gains. Mr. cains. we'd li.ke to
bring you up as a witness.
appearing as
was exam.ined
CHARLES GAINS,
a public witness, havi-ng been duly sworn,
and testified as foflows:
I 'm a net metering custome.r
name is spelled G-a-a-n-s.
Drive, Boise, Idaho. In the brevity, I !m
four paragraphs
try to be terse,
time and I want
agreement itseff.
existing
the net metering
THE W]TNESS:My name
for Idaho
I five at
interest
is Charles Gains.
Power. My la st
1-l2L East Canova
of
going to skip my introduction and first
or so in my submitted testimony, I wil1
but 1've been working on this for a long
to have my
parts. one
The second
say. My cornrnents are organized into two
Is regarding the settlement
IS regarding the treatment of
have already signed up forcustomers who
program.
reasonable. just,
Power assert thi s
Part one, is the sett.l-ement agreement
and fair? Idaho PUC Staff and Idaho
issue is about Idaho Power's right tot25
384
o 1
2
3
4
5
6
7
I
9
10
11
L2
o 13
74
15
16
L1
1B
19
20
21
?2
23
24
CSB REPORT]NG
208.890. s198
GAINS
Publ i c
change the rates. I'hi s
than that. It is about
monopoly, .is taking us
1n the future -- to the
issue is really so much greater
where Icraho Power Company. a
ln the future.Let's take a look
a telescope. Can
percent cleanwe see the goal of getting
energy gett ing c] oser or is
metering Order
see this as a
energy possibj-Lities. What
Commission had created was
opportunitles.
to buy expensive
manufacturers to
future through
to 10 0back
it getting further away?
When Idaho Public Utilities Commission net
was issued, Idaho Power customers didnrt
windfall. Rather, it opened the door to
the Idaho Publ-ic Utili-ties
a cf ean
Order became popular not because it
but because it aflowed customers options and
energy incubator. The
made customers r ich,
and upgrade equipment such that
Power standards. The Order
Sofar coufd be installed without having
batteries. The Order mot ivated
it would meet the
de s ign
Idaho
allowed return enough that the customer could see an
eventual payback. Most impor:tant of all, it created
opportunity for innovation with clean energy.
Today, ldaho Power Company claims its
clean energy generation stands at about 60 percent, welI
below its goa1, a goal that is hard to keep when the
electricity market demand is growing at the same time.
Idaho Power complains it is concerned about competitiono25
385
o
10
11
72
o r3
l4
15
16
l't
18
t9
20
27
22
?3
24
CSB REPORTING
208.890.s198
GA]NS
Pubf i c
and the rate threat by clean energy generators under the
net metering Order. Yet, Idaho Power doesnrt have to
invest one dime to add this cl-ean renewable energy
generation to j-ts base.
Commissioners, Idaho Power is not only
turning the telescope
telescope is now out
Power doesn I t appear
vision of more clean
around, but in addition, the
of focus. The request by Idaho
to be
Idaho Power is
movang us any
generation at
such growth.
c] ose r to the
a time when
It does not
energy
experiencing
at all that Idaho Power should bemake any sense
concerned about
generating market
the new generation
its own generating
1t
a1l this time and money
rates when there is such
energy. Commj-ssioners,
agreement and
grow the tota I
Power area.
such a tiny sector of the total
in its service area. ft should welcome
and incorporate thls innovation into
management p1an.
is simply a fool's errand to be wasting
worrying about minor generating
for cJ-ean, rel j-able
settlement
great demand
throw out this
move on to more important matters. Let's
clean energy availability j-n the fdaho
Part two, is i-t fair or just to change the
deal- with existing customers? Commissioners, how would
you like it if some power authority suddenly announcedt25
386
1
2
3
4
5
6
1
I
9
O 1
3
4
5
6
1
8
9
10
t-1
L2
a 13
l4
15
16
L1
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
o
CSB REPORTING
208.890.sr98
GAI NS
PubIlc
that you would now have to perform your 3ob, but for hal-f
the pay? Isnrt that what Idaho Power is asking those who
have already committed to the net metering agreement? We
had a dea.I . Every business 101- faw class teaches that a
contract must contain the foflowing efements3 The
pa.rt.ies agree to
net metering. An
whole net
the deaf. Idaho Power and
offer and acceptance must
for power and they credit power to
I agreed to
be made. The
metering program was presented at the
rate and we, in good fal-th, accepted
element of consideration must exist.
fu11
thate.Lectricaf
rate. An
Idaho Power
same rate.
agreement.
for a ]oan
1ega1.
words of
like a
request
want to
The parties
Indeed, we
have to be
were capable
capable to
and able
enter int o
We pay
us at the
qualify
has to be
fn the
bird that
t-o
based on the deal-, and the
Wel-1, there's lots of evidence
Jeremy Whitcomb Rifey: "[,ihen
ag reement
of that.
I see a
walks fike a dur:k and swims like a duck and quacks fike a
duck, I caII that bird a duck."
metering deal
Commissioners,
what they want,
f et- people cafl the net
but this bird sure looks
contract to me, The problem $rith Idaho Powerrs
is clear. We had a deal and ldaho Power doesn't
honor it.
When Idaho Power informed me about the
detaifs and specificat-1ons of the net metering deal, it25
387
o 1
2
3
4
5
6
1
8
9
10
11
1.2I13
74
15
15
71
1B
19
20
27
22
23
24
CSB REPORT]NG
208.890. s198
GAINS
Publ ic
was a]f about the win-win for both parties, First, I
cou.Id generate and use my own power. Second, it let
Idaho Power avoid using its generating capacity and store
the potential energy for later use. Third, if I
generated extra power, Idaho Power coufd take it and
provide it to my nej-ghbors at the ful1 retail price and
credit my account for repat::lation sometime in the
future.
f relied in good faith on Idaho Power
assurances. Idaho Power dld not notify me or make an
obvious statement that it was abfe to change the rates,
Simply by this fact alone, Idaho Power shoul-d not be
allowed now after we have inked the deal to change the
rates I relied upon. Note, too, that D. L. Evans Bank
relied on the dependability of my net metering contract
to process my 1oan. EolJ-owing that, the Idaho Office of
Energy refied on these same assurances in order to accept
my application and give me the 1oan. I have already -- I
already have much more than, after taxes and credits,
$18,000 lnvested in my solar system. From the beqinning,
the net metering deal I signed with Idaho Power is how I
would pay off this loan and ul-timately reaJ-ize a return
retirement. It is not fair oron my inve s tment
Idaho
1n my
Powe rj usl to 1et
citlng sone
back out of the
hidden excuse that this is
ex j-st j-ng deal by
allowed because ito25
388
I I
2
3
4
5
6
1
I
9
10
11
1"2t13
t4
15
16
71
18
19
20
2t
22
23
24
CSB REPORTING
208.890. s198
GATNS
Publ ic
is a rate change. Indeed,
omission are often Iies of
Idaho Power
change the rat e
sofar customer.
my mother would
deception. "
never made their
say: "Lies of
intention to
the pot ent 1a Ia visible condit.ion to me,
I never would have accepted the
financial decision and obligation to make the deaf had I
known what ldaho Power was planning. Af1 net metering
customers shoufd have their deals protected and
grandfathered in perpetuity, but Idaho Power seems to
hold al-] the cards, Indeed, Senator .Tohn Mccain once
said: "The more powerful you are, the more llkely you
are to get what you want. " Don't af l-ow this to happen.
There's a great disparity in bargaining
power betrlreen the smal-1 net metering customers and Idaho
Power Company. The Commission, I think, was formed to
provlde some counterbal-ance to Idaho Power given its
obligations, size, and fimited competition. I am asking
the Commiss.ion not to af .Low Idaho Power to change the
deaf. However, if the Commission does side with Idaho
Powerrs request, at least keep those already invested
grandfathered in perpetuity. This wilf give customers
like me the dollar return to maintain, update, and keep
their systems operating and in compliance.
In conclusion, the ldaho PUC Commission
net metering Order rs an infinite sum, an open Ordert
389
a
10
11
l2
o 13
L4
15
76
l1
1B
19
2A
27
22
23
t
CSB REPORT ING
208 .890. s19B
GAINS
PubIlc
so.Iution, The proposed IdaLro sett.Iement agreement is a
zero sum solutj-on. The underlying message here is that
smaI1, innovat.ive renewable generators have no freedom to
create, control, and enjoy the benefits of developing and
using renewable energy resources.
In other words, the fittfe guy doesn't
have a chance. If Idaho Power's request goes forward,
from now on all ldaho Power has tc do is j-dentify someone
else's new gerrerating technology, innovation, and/or
development idea as a threat to its rates and the sma1l
generator business idea is DOA.
With the
presently stands, Idaho
better, bigger, cheape.r
net metering Order as it
Powe.r is incentivized to research
clean energy ideas. Keep the
to healthy competition.
Commission sends this
pro j ects and innovat.ionPowe.r, f uture
Order and it
If the Idaho
under net
opens up the door
Public Util-1ties
message to Idaho
wi I1 be created
economy, not orr
rulemaking, and
on the basis of science, technology, and
the basis that leads to hearings,
regulatory manipulat.ion.
As for those who were motivated to sign up
ethi-cal-
thinking
By what
Power to
metering, by what sense of fairness or
is there justification to pul-l the deal
reasoning does it make it okay to a1Iow
violate that basic fdahoan tenant and
apart ?
Idaho
that is,25
390
I
2
3
4
5
6
1
I
9
a 1
2
3
4
5
6
1
I
9
10
l1
L2
a
74
15
t6
l1
18
L9
20
2l
22
23
24
a
CSB REPORT ING
208.890. s198
GRANGE
PubIic
my word is my bond. Thank you. Any questions?
COI.,IMISSIONER KJELLANDER: Thank you. Do
we have questions from parties or members of the
Commission? Seeing none, thank you for your testimony.
THE WITNESS: You're welcome.
(The witness l-eft the stand. )
COMM]SSIONER KJELLANDER: Eiler Grange.
Oh, is that Tyler?
MR. GRANGE: It is Tyl-er.
TYLER GRANGE,
appearlng as a public witness, having been first duly
sworn, testlfied as fo1lows:
THE WITNESS: All rlght, my name is Tyler
at 866Grange. I am an
North World Cup
Idaho Power customer. I live
Lane -in Eagle.
for
to
MR. JEWELL: Can you spel1 your last name?
THE WITNESS: Grange, G-r-a-n-g-e.
MR. JEWELL: Thank you.
THE WITNESS: So I want to thank you guys
this opportunlty. I know it's really late. I want
thank the transcriber here, I think we do not envy
her job
that's
right now and I want to thank every
here to show their support. I mean,
single person
we've been25
391
O 1
2
3
4
5
6
1
I
9
10
11
l2
a 13
t4
15
L6
l1
1B
19
20
21
22
23
24
CSB REPORTING
208.890. s198
here for many
You could be
and stuff and
am for you,
support for
little bit. I
perspective j-s
afso have sol ar
person sel1s, moves
the house foreve r,
for the Iife of the
liours - You could be
s-i e:etr:J.no . You cou id
doing
be w ith your families
how grateful I
showing your
so obviously, I echo every
been stated about
other things.
Yesterday on the phone call I gave
testimony or statement, sorry, not. testimony, yeah,
testimony, about how -- wel,l,, l-et me kind of back up a
I just want to Iet you know
for you to be here voicing and
this.
on my hous e,
own a solar company here in town, so my
golng to be a llttle bit different. I
single other testimony that's
grandfathering. I implore that you
onfy grandfather the customers, but
That was stated as wel1, because in
because they ' re
that also needs
f ol-low that, not
the systems.
event that the
going to five in
grandfathered in
befieve in that
guys
also
the
not
to be
100 percent, because
systemr
that's
so 1really
huge, that's
Yesterday on the phone cafl I tafked about
had -- have had to incur expensehow us as a company, we
on our end or e.ither us
end, to figure out how to cover the costs of
transformer upgrades, so on the phone ca11, I
tafked about that. I didrr'L feel l-ike it was
or the customer, it's been on our
s ome
kind of
fair that,o
GRANGE
PubIic
o
o
CSB REPORTING
208.890.s198
to provide
and I donrt
paying for
believe that
the upgrades.
to be case,
you know, Idaho Power stating that it
transmission for the
costs them expense
net metering stuf f
because theyrre not
where we're adding
on their .Iines.
Idaho
it, you
Power,
solar
Either we have to make a deal
with the customer on
customer, you know,
or add that to thei-r
sharing the expense or we have the
take that out, have them pay for that
f inanc.ing .
I mean, Irve had bids
transformers on to people's homes and
That's going Lo cost an extra $8-12,000 and
you know, is saying yeah, if
have to pay for it, so again,
what I sai-d yesterday.
I'11 back uo a
unofficial or anything. It
August / September ' i sh time.
business ls booming. It's
bills are high. You know,
take control of their power
on how us as a
It was very
the middle of
of the year, our
summer. Power
you guys v,rant
just want to kind
guys
of echo
this,
I
bills,
sofar industry kind of heard about this,
-IittIe bit
a fot of
was about in
By this time
the middle of
meeting and we find out that
people
r ight .
know,you
but
are wanting to
Wegotoa
I won't go into
specifics of what group it
that's on the proposaf that
it's one of the groups
agreed to it, you know, came
to us and said hey, fdaho Power wants
what do you guys think? Net metering
to change
is going to beo
393 GRANGE
Publ ic
1
2
3
4
6
1
I
9
10
11
t2
13
L4
16
7't
18
19
20
2t
22
23
24
25
I I
2
3
4
5
6
1
I
I
10
l1
).2I13
74
15
16
I1
1B
l9
20
2t
22
23
24
CSB REPORTING
208.890.5198
GRAN GE
Publ ic
different, and we were aI-I sitting there in this meeting
so telf us, Iike what do theyand we're just
want to do, and
li.ke c kay,
other pfaces. I'm
not one of the best
I as a sol-ar owner
a private meeting behind closed doors and we're just ki-nd
of like okay, so why can't you tell us, stuff like that.
' We told them, you know, we'lI sign an NDA.
We wonrt tel1 anybody. If you guys want to keep it
private, that's fine, but before you allow *- you know,
have us vote in support or not to, you know, support this
proposal, we need to knot, the informatj-on, like vrhat are
we getting lnto. None of that was ever discussed. We
had zero idea on what was being proposed unt.il after --
they're like oh, we can't teII you. It's
found out at the same time as everybody elseyou
did
know, we
when it
speak for a
was becoming refeased, so
lot of other solar owners ln
we do not support this docket,
the industry
lie do notthat say
support
compan 1e s
changes,
werre go.ing to
in Idaho. it's
this proposal in any way, shape, or form.
As soon as
again, we didn't even know
immediately several other
that. meeting was over, 1ike,
any specifics, but there was
colleagues from other sol-ar
that we tal-ked to and we're like weII, if this
we're out of here. We're
Arizona, California, Texas, New Hampshire,
leaving
not going
markets.
the market,
to I ie, solar
EinanciaIly,
you know,a 25
394
a
o
l-
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
L2
13
l4
15
16
71
t_B
19
2A
2t
22
23
24
CSB REPORT]NG
208.890.5198
GRANGE
Public
there's
sense to
don't do
on, and
seve.raf cther s tate s
do sofar - ldaho is
it to save money.
Basically what
this is what a Iot of
where it makes financiaf
not one where it is you
we're
peop 1e
That ' s
setting up
signed up
al-f we're
custome.rs
for, is
basically
They j ust
little bit
itrs a bi 1l swao.
want to take control. They want to
independence. They want a
their energy, and by taking
doing.
have a
say on how they
this net
of
metering policy, the one-to-one exchange, lt makes it --
there's no way -- there's no way in heck that peopJ-e are
going to get solar after this, there's no way, because
it's already been tough enough for solar to make sense
here financially, but by ripping out the one-to-one
exchange, it's not going to happen, so I'm already seeing
the effects of this.
As this has been released, again, we
were -- our business was realfy booming. We had the best
months of our company 1n August and September. Then/
boom, this letter goes out and j-nstantJ-y we've seen a
huge drop in new jobs and instaffations and when -- I
kind of was sitting here kind of doing the math a littfe
bit, when one person says yes to solar, it provides over
want to take
15 j obs between me,
marketing team, my
my company, my sales reps, my
engineers, my project manage.rs, theo25
395
o 1
2
3
4
5
6
1
I
9
10
11
12t13
14
15
76
71
18
19
2,4
2L
22
24
CSB REPORT ING
208.890.5198
GRAN GE
Pub l ic
site survey team, the lnstallers, the electrician, my
distribution company that I work with, al-1, their
employees. That's 15 to 20 jobs here in Idaho on one
transaction, and if the solar industry goes away or j-f
this net metering gets pulled away, all those jobs are
going to be gone. Eor one single transaction therers
going to be several jobs lost, okay.
Itrs very important, not onfy do we supply
jobs and stuff, obviousl-y, if our business isn't going to
be there anymore, there's -- every time, you know, we do
permits and stuff, that's fees, that's permitti"ng costs
that we're paying to the cities, so that's l-ost revenue
for the cj-tles. The taxes, that's lost revenue for taxes
for the states. It's -- I mean, as was previously
stated, so.Iar is one of the -Iargest or one of the fastest
growing .industries in the area and it is a very -- it
would be very sad to see that go away, because it's just
going to be a compound effect to where peopl-e that
a.lready have solar, there's
providers to service them.
not going to be not sofar
People that really do want to
want it, it's going to be ago solar
toy for
just because they
the peopfe that have extra money.
Because there's
companies, there's going to be
means my suppfier is not going
to be l"ess
competition, which
abfe to have as many
going
Iess
to beo25
396
o
a
1
2
3
4
5
6
1
I
9
10
11
1.2
13
14
16
ll
1B
19
2A
27
22
23
?4
CSB REPORTING
208.890.5198
391
pane.I s in
that are
storage,
taking l--he equlpment / so t.hat requires
installation
his cos t
prices to
because there's not many companies
to go up. That. requires the soLar
go up because there's not as many insta.l-.I s happenlng
domino effect, you know, soanymore.
there's
It's just a huge
not goj-ng r-o be many around to servlce
those, and then the servlce
available, there ' s going to
compana e s
calls t.hat
be one or
are
two
going to be
companies that
and a feg if
domino effect
do that and they're going to charge
therers any services calls, so itrs
that by changing the net metering,
catastrophic, so I implore you guys
wholeheartedly.
There's got to be a
an arm
a huge
it's going to be
to reject this
way for us to work
with Idaho Povrer to make this a win-win. I believe 100
percent in win-win. I tal-k about this with a1l my
customers that go so.lar. If it's not a win-wj,n for you
or for me, we do not do the deal,. If itrs not beneficiaf
for them or not beneficial for me, you know, we just
don't do the deal, and so that same idea, I would love to
be able to work with ldaho Power on a way to make this a
wi'n-win. It's a -- this is a fantastic opportunity that
we've got here before us to real-Iy kind of make a
statement of what we reaffy believe in here in Idaho.
I mean, you know, going back to what f was
GRANGE
Publ ic
o 25
o 1
2
3
4
5
6
1
I
9
10
11
72
o 13
T4
15
76
l1
19
20
2t
22
23
24
CSB RE PORT ING
208. 890.5198
GRANGE
Publ ic
saying about Idaho not being the best market for solar,
it's because f dahr:'s prices are pretty low compared to
other states. I have other col-feagues in other states
that have asked me, you knowf olher f rj-ends that are in
Arizona, they're like why in the heck woufd you be in
Idaho, and the biggest reason why I tell them is I j ust
communi t y .
say Idaho is
love Idaho. It's great people, it's a great
There's not one pe.rlson here that wou.Id never
one of the greatest communities to live in.
We believe in each other. We believe in
independence. We beLieve j-n being conservative. At the
same t j-me, we embrace that j-ndependence and we embrace,
you know, opportunitj-es. That's what makes us reaIly
unique and, you know, to be honest -- so right now,
currently, like I said, I'm already seeing the effects of
this policy going into effect in my business. My sales
team, again, this happened in October and November, sales
reaIly pl-ummeted. Right before Christmas, that's a
real1y hard time to have sales stop, you know.
I have a big group of my sa.Ies staff right
now that are currently not working in Idaho. To keep
them working and in order for them to make money for
Christmas and stuff, they're actually in Arizona right
now sefling jobs, and guess who is getting that money?
The installers down there, the economies down there, theo25
398
I
I
1
2
3
4
5
6
'7
I
9
10
11
72
13
L4
t6
15
t1
TO
19
20
2l
22
24
CSB REPORTING
208. 890. s198
GRANGE
Publ- 1c
cities down there, the distributors
have to do those things in order for
down there, and we
working, and we are in tafks about opening a
other states and, you know, I don't want to
my guys to keep
business in
do that. You
know, I don't want to move. I do not want to pick up my
family and take them to another p1ace.
We love it here. We bought a house. Our
goal- is to establish roots here long term and by simply
taking this net metering away, it's really going to cause
us to have to pack up and go somewhere, because I believe
100 percent in solar for the fact that it helps people
with independence. It helps the environment. It helps
the grid. It's a win-win for everybody. You know, f
have a fot of respect for Idaho Power, what they do, but
l-ike I said, this could be a great opportunity for us to
col-faborate together to real-Iy figure out a way for Idaho
Power to come out as a winner on this.
If this gets passed, imagine the backfash
in the publj.c view that people are going to have with
Idaho Power. Like f know -- Irve seen Idaho Power's
commercia.Is. f 've seen what they do- They real.ly try to
save face and, you know, promote a good image and I think
they should, but if this goes through, they will not have
that. You're going to have people with pitchforks and,
you know, fj-re thrown at thelr buildings and stuff. Itrst25
399
o
o
1
2
3
4
5
6
1
8
o
10
11
L2
l3
L4
15
16
22
23
24
L7
2L
18
t-9
20
CSB REPORTING
208.890.5198
GRANGE
Pubfic
going to
much, but
only going
I guarantee
Iater, this
golng to be
ti-me wasted
now, but I
together on
be meciieva.l t"imes al-i over agar_n.
wontt be a
Maybe not so
it won'c be good, It
I think we cou.Id aIl work
not going to stop and sooner
together and
whe re we ' re a.l- 1
actually set a reaI.Iy cool precedent
be done in the nation, Solar is only
this goes through, I guarantee it's
speed bump along the way. Solar j-s
might sJ,ow down for a few years, but
good view.
colfaborate on this and have this become
wi-nners and we can
on how solar should
going to grow. If
just golng to be a
to it
you it's
wi 11, have to get
wor k,a
overturned and it's
or
j ust
.l-ot more
r ight
t h ings
end of the
a Iot more i, ot more money, a
be sl-eeping in bedwhere we coul-d a.l- I
rea l1y
havi ng
You
do bel-ieve 100 percent we can work
us all do something really cool.
know, I have a ]ot of other
written down. what I wanted to say, but at the
day, I j ust want to ]-eave my message that I wanted to
share with the group, with the PUC, with Idaho Power,
because I real]y believe therers a way for us to all work
on this to where everybody is excited and everybody is
happy about the future of our energy here in Idaho.
Thank you.
COMMISSIONER KJELLANDER: Thank you.
Let's see if there are any questions from parties of thet25
400
o 1
2
3
4
5
6
1
B
9
10
11
t2
o 13
L4
15
16
L1
18
79
2A
27
22
24
CSB REPORTING
208.890.s198
MONSEES
Publ i c
case or members of the Commission. Thank you for your
test imony .
(The witness left the stand. )
COMMISSIONER KJELLANDER: David Monsees.
appear1ng as
was examined
DAVID MONSEES,
a public witness, having been duly sworn,
and testified as folfows:
THE WITNESS: I'm David Monsees. It's
spelled
I 'm an
M-o-n-s-e-e-s. and I'm at 1347 Parkhill Drive.
Idaho Power cusLomer and that's in Boise, ldaho,
and I woufd like to take a different perspective, a
historicaf perspective, that other people testifying
I 've been following Idaho
Idaho about 10 years ago.
haven't focused on so much.
Power ever since I moved to
Lamont Keen was the CEO of Idaho Power at the time and he
was rea11y not a very
1lsten to anybody and
WelI,
nice man and he reaI1y wouldn't
he was 100 percent for
Darrel Anderson came in
coa l- .
and spo ke
he keptni-cer words and seemed to listen to people, but
the same sort of perspective on fossil fuefs. He just
shifted from coaf plants, which were going to end up
beinq a big money loser if they kept up with them, to
natural gas, and when they -- they have an independento25
401
o
o
I
2
3
4
5
6
1
I
9
10
11
L2
13
74
15
15
))
18
19
20
L1
27
23
24
CSB REPORTING
208 - 890.5198
MONSEES
Publ ic
advisory committee that helps develop their 20-year plan
and the plan before last that I sat in on, the IRPAC
meetings, which are open to the public, their own data
showed that solar was cheaper electric for their plants
than gas, and their plan came out 100 percent gas,
because regardless of what thei.r data showed, they knew
where they wanted to go with their pIan.
The y
the
are willing to continue this kind of
data and misinformation that
misinformation. The approach
take is a driver behind this
manipufation of
killed -- Lamcnt.killed wind pretty much with
to fossil fuels
a lot of
that they
werre in the
Power, if
short of
Iike they
middLe of
companies
f l oodi ng,
resul-t of
sources.
requirements of your Order
shoul-d kif l- the whole idea
they needed to raise rates,
extlnction that
are met
on anyth.ing until the
and either that or you
righL now, and the p.Ianet we know .is victim to
l-ike Idaho Power. The blizzards, wildfires,
droughts are all known to be in ]-arge part a
our faifure to use sustainable green power
ft's been pointed out before, but I'd like
to cite the specific PUC Order No. 34046, which they
have -- Idaho Power has not met and so I beLieve this
Commission shou.l-d not move forward
rloht now. Tdaho
money/ there are other things they
because they're
could do,o 25
4C2
o 1
2
3
4
5
6
1
8
9
10
11
72
o 13
I4
15
16
T1
1B
19
2A
2l
22
23
24
o
CSB REPORTING
208.890.5re8
MONSEES
PubIic
could stop spending obscene
Iegislators and l-he governor
amounts of money on payi-ng
There was one year:
$s,000,
rn the state every year.
where Butch Otter got
needed it orwhether he$5,000, every year he
not from ldaho Power,
el-ect ion year, he afso
and other thousands of
got
citizens of Idaho. Why do
their own pockets with that
10,000 for Darrel Anderson
retired, he was making over
the brakes on progress and
more than Lamont Keen was,
with.
dollars from the other executive
in that year that was an
10,000 from Darrel Anderson
these executi-ves come out of
kind of money? Because
is chump change. When Lamont
$5 million a year just to put
Darrel is making significantly
so this is what we're deal.ing
got
and
officers of ldaho Power. This kind of manipulation, why
do they do it? It's because this monopoly has -- it was
started to get, you know, e.Iectricity out quick to
everybody everywhere and that purpose is gone now,
They really are a monopoly without a
purpose. An open market with multiple companies, I
think, wou.ld be a much fa.irer and just thing for the
We're deafing with a Company that has
regulati.ons on raises and bonuses and there is nothing
about progress in those regufations that determj-ne what
kind of bonus -- and their board rs stacked. WeIl,25
103
a
10
11
72t13
l4
15
t6
I1
18
19
20
2l
22
23
24
CSB REPORT]NG
208. 890.5198
MON S EES
Publ ic
Lamont Keen is one of the board members, but
ma de
they're
theirstacked with peopfe in the industry who
millions doing exactly what Idaho Power
I would ask the Commission to consider
is doing now and
that. You know,
it's listening to Idaho Power. Irve seen them lie often
enough that itrs
company about how
11ke,
safe
this time fa]l
when the period
It's kind of obscene and you can't let
you know, listening to a Lobacco
crgarettes ar:e.
to thei.r sophistry like what
of contract for industriaf solar
yourself
happened
farms was moved from $20.00 down 20 years down two
years. When you have a two-year contract, no one, no
bank is going to give a company the money necessary to
build that solar farm. They kiIled industriaL solar i-n
one whack, Don't 1et them kiff solar altogether and this
is really what they want to do. They have been pushing
not to have change. They want to have a central supply
source and they control the wires. Thank you.
COMMISSIONER K.IELLANDER: Are there any
questions? If not, thank you very much for your
testimony,
(The witness left the stand. )
COMMISSIONER KJELLANDER: Next is Richard
Zuercher. Richard Zuercher?
Randy Nilson. Randy Nilson?o 25
1
2
3
4
5
6
'1
9
404
o 1
2
3
4
6
't
I
9
10
11
72
a 13
14
15
16
L1
18
19
20
2t
22
23
24
CSB REPORTING
208.890.5198
N I LSON
Public
spe 11ed
five at
and I'm an Idaho
this year solar
Fa tt i
THE
R-a-n-d-y.
2000 South
oh, hi.
customer, I installed in March of
RANDY NILSON,
appearing as a publ"ic witness, having been first duly
sworn, testified as fol-lows:
IiITNESS: My name is Randy N11son,
Last name is spelled N-i-f-s-o-n. I
Peppercorn Pface, Boise, Idaho, 83709,
Powe r
pane.I s
clean
on my house in order to tor one
reason,
lower Iower my
energy and,
power bi 11,
to try to
to smooth it
my power bif l-
to ga
not
to also,
but
out. I 've noticed I've kepL track
try
of
for probably the last 10 years and it's gone up
drastically by the
thought by at I east
least f eve.I out and
bill-s l-ater.
didn't want my
increases from Idaho Power, so I
installing
not have to go with increased power
f'm already retired on disability and I
solar panels, I coul-d at
instaffed the se
powe r
solar panels. I went
bill to get way out of reach, so I
through the
Wholesale
budget.
$5,000
calcufation. I boughr- the
and they calculated it out
system through Solar
and I'm on a fimited
I'm on Medicare and Medicaid, which allows me ao25
,1 05
o 1
2
3
4
5
6
l
I
9
10
11
L2
o 13
L4
15
L6
L1
18
20
27
22
23
24
CSB REPORT ING
208.E90.5198
N I LSON
Publ ic
ret i rement income . They
I have to use that money
only allow me to keep $1,700 and
to pay for everything, food,
I was trying to, like I said onutilities, mortgage. so
my power biff, stop it
plus to go green.
from increasing in the future,
I had no idea about this secret agreement
that was sent to me in a lett.er on October 23rd stating
that they were going to modify the net, monthfy net,
metering agreement and if they hrent to that -- j.f they
went to that based on an hourly net metering where they
only paid me half of what I generate, which I generate
during the day a IoL of power, but they're on.Iy going to
pay me 44 cents, but when I use that same power for me at
night, theyrre going to charge me eight cents -- 4.4
cents is what they were going to pay me, but doubl-e
charge me that at night, which makes no sense and they
came back and said we1l, that's because you're cheating
out regular customers that don't have solar, and I was
like we11, how can that be and just because yourre going
to pay me on an hour-for-hour basis on monthJ-y net
metering, and they said we11, our costs, we have to
recoup those to maintain the grid and you're not paying
what you did in the past, so welre going to have to
reduce what we pay you.
t said, we11, what are your costs fora25
446
o 1
2
3
4
5
6
1
8
9
10
11
72
o 13
t4
15
16
1l
18
79
ll)
27
22
23
24
CSB REPORT ING
208.890.5198
N I LSON
Pub-I ic
solar? What is your overhead? I mean,
yourre sayinq th.tt- j-t's more expensive
homeowner. They couldnrt answer that
no idea what I was talking about and
nobody has told me about the benefit.
to Idaho Power for
te 11 me why
for this non-solar
question. They had
after right now,
There are benefit s
the summer when I
us producing
produce more
energy for them.During
than fmonth
it's not a lot,
during the
but duringactually use,
month -- peak
at night, so
those peop]-e that
but you I re going
aftogether if you
and right now I'm
the peak
hours, 1i ke duri.ng
they're getting all
They don't have to
t-he daytime, I use stuff
this free
pay tor
energy.
maintenance.
so I don't
through with
I
have to pay maintenance on my solar
understand this deaf and I think if
a.r.ra y /
ha ve
you
only
their
go fng
solar
to ki 11
arrays,
go
this, as Commissioners,you're not
invested in
to wipe out
adopt what
on a f i-xed
that you donrt accept
before me, he taL ked
the solar industry
Idaho Power is ins.j-st.ing on,
lncome.
I'IJ probably have to sell my house and
there's no way Itm golng t,o be able to afford
this deal, and
it, so I
Iike thejust ask
gentfeman
study to
for f dalro
-- have them actually do a
of what theyt re go,lno
we as homeowners producing power
much that's really worth, not half
to charge us. Anyway, that's al"l- I
see how much
Power, how
o
431
a 1
2
3
4
5
6
7
I
o
10
11
L2
o 13
L4
15
t6
l1
o
18
79
2A
27
22
23
24
CSB RE PORT I NG
208.890.5198
RA]NO
Pubfic
have to say. Thank you.
COMI.IISSIONER KJELLANDER: ThanK you. ATe
the.re any questions
of the Commission?
(The
appearlng as
was examined
from parties to the case or members
If not I
witness
than k
left
you for your te st imony.
the stand. )
COMMISSIONER KJELLANDER: And the next
name on the Iist is Patti Raino.
PATTI RAINO,
a publ-ic viitness, having been duly sworn,
and testified as f ol-lows:
THE WITNESS: Hello. My name is Patti
Raino, P-a-t-t-i or Patricia, P-a-t-r-i-c-i-a, Raino,
R-a-i-n-o. I five at 4905 West Outlook Avenue, Boise,
83703, and I am an Idaho Power customer, but I am not a
net metering customer. It has been very informative for
me to sj-t through this hearing and listen to aff the
testimony. I thlnk that from what 1've heard, the
decision for you as Commissioners shoufd be relatively
easy, but I may be wrong.
I strongl-y
forward by Idaho
that Idaho Power
in the settLement. It is
the proposal that has
betray the trust of the
solar power here in
oppose
Powerbeen put
import a nt
customers
not
t.hat have invested in?5
408
I 1
2
3
4
5
6
1
I
9
10
11
L2t13
14
15
16
T1
18
79
20
2L
)')
23
24
RA] NO
Publ i c
Idaho. To change the program under which solar was
install-ed is r,r.rong and wil-l bring hardship to many of
Idaho Power's customers that have made the good sense
choice to limit their carbon footprint.
Further, moving from net metering will
discourage others like me to utilize sofar to meet their
energy needs. My son has a large solar company in
Hono1u1u. I might add that in Hono1ulu, solar provides
about 25 to 30 percent of the power there in that state
and employs more than 100 people there and 250 people
throughout the country, and because he grew up in ldaho,
has property and family ties to our state, he has also
extended his business to Idaho.
His business, Revo.Iusun, provides
residential anci commercial solar, as weff as
systems for solar. Those who have purchased
storage
soLar
of net
to adj ust
Idaho Power.
systems using
metering wilf
their systems
The PUC should
the current Idaho Power policy
find it difficult and costly
to the proposal submitted by
be concerned with diverslfying and
creating redundancy in
constricting it.
our energy systems, not in
I concur with many
The Idaho
of the points that have
Conservation League a lsobeen made here today.
made these points. but aftel: iistening to all theI25
409CSB REPORTING
208 . 890. s198
o I
2
3
4
5
6
1
I
9
10
11
T2
O 13
14
15
L6
71
1B
L9
20
27
22
23
24
a
CSB REPORT ING
208.890. s198
RAI NO
Public
testimony, I
continued as a pcl i cy for to put so.Iar
rooftops is
anybody who wants
use of some of our
would say that net metering should be
in their home. Tire best
now .
residential solar, so the net
availability should def in j-teIy
for anybody who has put solar and is in the program right
meterlng program
be extended and continue
our energy system and
supply energy to many
to look at the big
a very parochial and
in this state. Thank
ft should al-so be extended to anybody that
wants to put solar on their homes, and I was bej-ng more
conservative in my testimony before, but I feel pretty
strongl-y after listening to everything that solar
generatlon is
with the PUC' s
of our citi zens.
picture and Idaho
limiting view of
you -
an important part of
encouragement could
ft is important
Power has taken
solar generat ion
COMMISSIONER KJELLANDER: Are there
questions from parties to the case or from members
any
of the
Commission?
crapp. David
Thank you for
(The witness
COMMI SS]ONER
Grapp ?
Ben Ilef f ron .
you.r testimony,
Ieft the stand. )
KJELLANDER: Next is David
Ben Heffron?
Michael Schoenhut, Michael Schoenhut ?25
410
o 1
2
3
4
5
6
1
B
9
10
11
L2t13
).4
15
L6
L1
1B
79
2A
2L
22
?3
24
CSB REPORTING
208. 890.5198
WILLIAMS
PubI ic
John Green. John Green?
Brltt Williams. Is that Bri-tt? Yes,
welcome.
appearing as
was examined
BRITT WILLIAMS,
a public witness, having been duly swornr
and testified as follows:
THE WITNESS: Britt WiIIiams, B-r-i-t-t
Iive at 1900 East Paradise Lane,W-i- 1-f-i-a-m-s . I
Meridian, fdaho, and
recently -- wefl, mY
built and this is a
happy and joyful and
I am an fdaho Power customer and I
system is on the way. It's being
surprrse.
T wouLd say it's
surprrses are
an unpleasant
Usually
surprise. My officiaJ- title is a contract specialist for
the U.S. government, I'm a professional buyer. I spend
the taxpayers' money, including my or,rn, to get the best
val-ue for the government, not .Lowest price technj-ca1Iy
acceptable. I buy qualityr not $400 hammers.
I've heard it all. I've bought for the
Air Eorce. I've bought for the Army. Irve bought for
BLM, supported wildlife firefighters, and I work for a
different organization, government, here in town. I
wonrt mention the name, but good faith and fair deal-ing
are tenets to civil servants who work in my career fieldo25
477
o I
2
3
4
5
6
1
I
9
10
11
12
a 13
15
16
11
18
L9
20
2t
22
23
24
CSB REPORTING
208.890. 5198
4I?W ] LL ]AMS
Public
as a contract specialist- -
You heard earlier the five items of a
contract. You've got to have agreement, offer and
acceptance, considerat.ion. You've got to be capabJ-e and
Iega1. We also have to act in good faith. Werve got to
be honest. In government contracting, if you say you're
going to eval-uate by one thing and then you don't,
companies_are upset, because they've fost millions of
doll-ars potentially in an awarded contract. They do
what's called a protest. They can file it with the
contracting
it a number ways, but
here, you
of f ice.r. They can go to
basically,
didn I t fo I low
court. They can do
it's a claj-m to say
through with here,
won or we coul-d
of
what you said
so we protest,
have won, but
perspective, theyrve
1ega1. They have to
the contract. It's
because we should have
now we can't win.
There's two types of contract
modifications. One is unilateral, whj-ch means one person
signs, and the other one is a bilateral agreement, so
when you have a conLract or an agreement or a lease or
anything fike that in the federal government, you have
two parties that agreed. You had the five things that we
tal-ked about earlier and from a contracting officer's
got
have
to have money. It's got to be
got to
the actual authority to sign
be fair and reasonable.o
o 1
2
3
4
5
6
1
I
9
10
11
t2
o 13
l4
15
16
71
18
r9
2A
27
lt
23
24
CSB REPORTING
208.890.5198
W] LL IAMS
Publ ic
You've heard it said often through
tonight, how do we get to fair and reasonable. We do the
math based on the deal. How do I know it's a good deal?
I promote competition. I had six companies come to my
house. I spent at feast one to four hours between the
different instal-1ers, engineers, whoever they brought
with them, and I picked one. It was down to two and I
picked one, and the one I picked was because he had
experience. He took
My roof is perfect ly
me to a structure that he had buil-t.
south-facing, but I'd have
for my
to cut
p rovide
house.
all the trees that are in front of my house that
the shade, that provide the great comfort
to help my HVAC cool my house. Why am I
$5,000 cutting aII these giant trees and
them every year? It's not a best value,
array structure behind my house that's
nice angle and the solar panels wifl be
cover, so I get dual functionafity from
goang
t hen
so 1
to spend
t rimming
did an
I didn ' t buy my system to
because
a carport at a
the carport
my system.
get a cheaper
I had saved mysystemelectric biLl.I got my
planned for
made flscaf
money for it,
anaJ-ys j-s. 1t
it if I went through
pf anned
ir, did all the math, aII rhe
I could actually afford
planned and
sense,
a different loan system, but I
and saved anC
about it. It wasnrt on a whim, so
for 10 years thought
my competition broughto25
413
I 1
2
3
4
5
6
1
8
q
10
11
L2t13
l4
15
I6
L1
18
19
2A
2L
?2
23
24t
me a fair and reasonable price.
The ranges of pricj-ng I have were between
30 and $40,000, all six. They gave me different panels,
different warranties, different manufacturers, dj-fferent
inverters, different mi croinverte.rs, a whofe bunch of
different things. I made the best decision that I knew
of at the time based on Idaho Power and al-l- of my own
competition, so f would go back to the things Irve
Learned tonight from alI the different very eloquent and
very prepared people that have spoken before me and Irm
sure after me as we]1, in the federal government, if you
have something that is cal-led a proposal, that's what it
is. If you have something that's called an award, that's
what it is.
If this document was ca.l-.Ied a study, and
as the gentleman a couple
only study that actually
history, so consider the
it's a study, show us the
before me said, this j-s the
proposed rates change out of the
source, PUC members, that if
study. I'm in the federaf
on this a]-l the time. You saidI get ca f l.edgove rnment .
this, show
honest. We
me.Okay, here it is. V,le've said we're being
said we care about green. Do our actions
line up with our words? Be honest.
Thj-s is a time that American people are
really not so sure about government. They don't trust25
CSB REPORT]NG
208.890.5198
4t4 W I LL IAMS
PubIic
t 1
2
3
4
6
'7
B
9
10
11
L2
I 13
l4
15
16
l1
18
L9
20
2L
22
23
24
a
CSB REPORTING
208.890. sr98
W I LL IAMS
Public
the government. They don't trust public companies. They
don't trust. Letrs give them a .reason to trust us. Be
honest. If it's you.r fault, admit it. Say I'11 fix it.
Irll do a modification and the gentleman that said it's
got to be a win-win, it has to be a wln-win. The
government wants
It's not -- it's
then get the very
and put them out
credlt. The
credit. Now,
the feds, but
Quite a long
not trying to give them
best negotiated price
of business. It wants
an award and
to put them under
them to succeed.
percent tax
percent tax
of years versus
to do business with sma.II businesses.
The government gave a 30
StaLe of ldaho gave
it's tiered over a
the feds started in
a seven
couple
2008 to now, '19.
time. The government wants to promote green
energy. Idaho has said it wants to promote green energy.
Idaho Power says Lhat.
The new seLtfement agreement, which the
title is really a study, which
study, but instead has promoted
unifateralfy, not bi l atera 11y,
Publ ic Utilities Commission is
hasn ' t delivered the
rate changes
with its customers, so the
is showing by
actions, it's
to support
.it s actions,
not really
the
not by
suppo rt ing
be
its words, but
the pubfic. If
included. I 've
hear
public, Idaho Power
by its
the sofar generators, myself to
invested, I'm here, I've invested. I
415
o 1
2
3
I
6
1
I
9
11
72
o 13
74
15
I6
L1
18
19
2A
21
22
23
24
CSB REPORTING
208.890. 5198
WI LL IAMS
Pubf i c
bel-ieve in.it because rt's the right thing to do because
it is green.
I'm not f may not have the same beliefs
as many
see the
my kids.
becau se
that Iike this, that l-ike sofar and green, but T
it as a legacy towant to dobenefits from it. I
My klds get so.l-ar,
I 've learned and I've
because I've educated them,
educated. I have an
el-ectric car. It's not a Tesla, no. Anyone I tell-
always asks me, is it a Tesla. No, you know, itrs not a
Tesla, because for the same money as a Tesla, I have a
couple friends ttlat have Teslas, but for the same money
as a Tesla, I bought a Chevy Spark, which j-s a t j.ny
Ilttle car and f'm 614" and weigh 230 and I bareLy fit in
there, anyway, I bought a Chevy Spark and I bought a
sol-ar PV panel system for my house and that's the same
money as a Tesla, but I'm going to get a longer reward
and more funct.ionality and more bank for my buck over the
term of the life of that.
Let's ca.l-l a study a study. It's not
reaIIy a settlement agreement, because no one has agreed
of the customers that the rate increases are being
imposed on. It's not real]y an agreement. I mean, let's
cal] a spade a spade. It's a study. Show us a study.
Compfete the study with a third party, with different
aud.itors, wj.th pecple that are in the so]-ar PV industry,a 25
476
10
o
o
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
B
9
with sol-ar consumers. Get some different fo]ks on there
to give their input.
Due process, that was talked about
regulations,
gist of that
qu j-te a
Titfe
was I
many
I'd like
W] LLIAMS
Pubf ic
bit by a gent leman
14-208,61-208, anci
have no study and
and we have no due
wiro quoted several
many others. The
got that the sessions must I:,e
wasn't followed. There were
The due p.rocess
meetings. If we
signed agreement
have? An
we have no
pub 11c .
no publ ic
bilateral-
unwritten book, Do
this. Don't accept
process, what
the studies,
this and as a
do the book, postpone
future customer, not a
a future solar
continue the net
do we
t2
11
13
10
t4
15
t6
current customer, I shoufd say as
producer, I'm a
metering program
because if we' re
about a1f of the
actions J-ine up
current customer,
that's in place now and -in the future,
really about green
things that we say
with our vrords,
and we're reaflv
we are/ then let our
1B
19
20
71
2l
22
23
I'd l-ike r- c, change one thing where
people have said, yorr know, all change is good.
24
to change thaL and say, you know, aI1 good change is
good, and you folks on the PUC, you members, have a
chance tc restore good faith in our community and promote
good change to contj.nue this process. Thank you.
COMMISSIONER KJELLANDER: Thank you. Do
we have quest j.onc f rcrn part ie*< tc the: case or theo25
CSB REPORTIIJG
208. 890.5198
471
o 1
2
3
4
6
1
I
9
10
11
1.2
o 13
14
15
16
71
18
19
20
27
22
23
24
CSB REPORTING
208.890.5198
[100D
Publ ic
Commission? 'Ihere being none, thank you for your
test imony.
(The witness left the stand. )
COMMlSS]ONER KJELLANDER: Next, SpenceT
Wood.
SPENCER WOOD,
appearing as a public witness, having been first duly
sworn, testified as folfows:
THE WITNESS: Spencer Wood, S-p-e-n-c-e-r
W-o-o-d. I reside at 42L East Crestl-ine Drive, Boise,
Idaho, and I am an Idaho Power consumer for over 40
years. AlL of us that have invested in resldential solar
investments, itrs quite expensive to us, but it is
providing the utility Company with sustainabl-e, cfean
energy without a capital investment by Idaho Power or a
need for transmission facil j-ties. Eor that reason, we
expect to be credited by the net metering agreement at
the same rate we are charged, which is about eight
point -- weII, 8.6 cents per kilowatt-hour, including
foreseeable future rate increases, and as soon as I got
this letter dated from ldaho Power on October 23xd, \
thought this is absurd.
They're telling us in 2028 that the powero
418
I 1
2
3
4
5
6
1
I
9
is only going to be worth 4.4 cents per kilowatt-hour.
That's just not the way it works. It's going to be 10
cents for sure, so f guess I'J-I just have to say that I
just found that quite absurd, and I hope -- we also want
to sustain these experienced sol-ar companies, these
instal-Iation companies, to thrive ln ldaho, to be able to
servj-ce our systems. This proposal may drive them out of
the area and it wj-Il drive a successful enterprise and
employer out of the area.
That's not in keeping with what we want
for ldaho, and for this simple reason, I ask that we
categorically reject the proposed settlement of a reduced
rate for our exported power. Thank you.
COMMISSIONER KJELLANDER: Would it be
possible to have a copy of your l-etter for the record as
well?
THE WITNESS: Yes .
COMMISSIONER KJELLANDER: I wanted to make
sure we had it for the record. Thank you for your
testimony.
(The v',itness left the stand. )
COMMISSIONER KJELLANDER: Robert from 4960
North Earrow St.reet in Boise.
10
11
72
a 13
I4
15
16
71
1B
19
2-A
27
/l
24
CSB REPORTING
208.890. s198
WOOD
Pubf i c
I 25
419
o 1
2
3
4
5
6
1
8
9
10
11
1.2
o 13
L4
15
L6
71
18
l9
20
27
22
23
24
o
CSB REPORTING
208.890. s198
CONANT
Public
ROBERT CONANT,
appearing as a public witness, having been duly swo.rn,
was examined and testified as follows3
THE WITNESS: Thank you, Commj-ssioners,
for your pat.ience to
electrical --
hear us. I am a professional
COMMISS]ONER KJELLANDER:
ahead and get your name officially
cou.ld say your name and spell your
THE WITNESS: Robert
on the
Why don't we go
record, if you
Iast one for us.
Conant, C-o-n-a-n-t.
COMMISSIONER KJELLANDER: And your
address.
THE WITNESS: 4960 North Farrow Street
and, yes, I am an ldaho Power customer.
COMMISSIONER KJELLANDER: Thank you.
Please provide us your statement.
THE WITNESS: Thank you. Thanks for your
patience with us. I am a professionaf electrica]- system
engineer, in fact, specializing in system design on this
very campus for over a decade now. We have a lot of
on-site generation perspecti-ves in this room and I'm here
to do ny duty as a citizen, not mainly to represent the
solar generation customers who diligently could be here
to speak for themselves. Irve come with a perspective25
424
o L
2
3
4
5
6
1
I
o
10
a 13
11
72
l4
15
16
L]
18
19
20
2t
22
23
24
CSB REPORT]NG
208.890.5r98
CONANT
Publ- i- c
from the unde r- rep re sented
customers who failed to be
pfus other ldaho Power
of any of this.
the suggested
450,000
notified
They a re, after all,
beneficiaries of this
calcufations are based
fixed cost report.
change.
on the
The Company
fixed cos t
A1I my data and
Company's, Idaho
would li ke it
Power's,
to be
appa ren t
Iosing a large
customers, at
they wished to
that this l-ost
from their r:epo rt that they are
amount of money from
feast when considering
j-nc1ude. They would
revenue, the cost of
on-s.ite generation
the factors that
fike it understood
it is beino borne
the bul-k of the non-generating residentiaf customers
There are a number of other factors
have since justified this proposaf in the name of rate
fai rness .
by
and
the y
studydid not inc.Iude, which a more
would have, deferred costs and
thorough net metering
sol-ar benefits. They
failed to assign value to generatj-ng during the summer,
their self-proclaj-med higher cost summer months on page
32. While multip.Ie scenar.ios were considered in their
report, the actual benefit to Idaho non-generating
residents, the benefit of net hourly billing was not
discussed at a.Il in the 91-page fixed cost study, what
would be the benefit to the non-gene.rating res.ident, so
I've been compefled Lo determine from their own data whata
421
o 1
2
3
4
5
6
l
B
9
10
11
l2
o 13
l4
15
15
L1
18
19
20
2t
22
23
24
CSB REPORTING
208.890.5198
422 CONANT
Publi-c
that benefit might be
As an
and present it to you.
important aside, the Company is
using incorrect .Ianguage in their pubfic correspondence.
The Company's -Ietter to the public addressed, and I
quote, "more accurate measuring as the issue being
addressed in this case." Accu.rate measuring, who could
argue vrith that? They don't mention that accurate hourly
measuring is already occurring and has for five-ten years
wlth the distribution of smart meters. Any customer can
log in onl-ine and see accurate hourly measuring, their
utilization, and upfoad to the grid.
I urge the Commission to require fdaho
Povrer to use the correct terminology. With al-l- the
negative PR it may incur, this is about residentiaL solar
carryovers and billing methodol-ogy. The term measurement
is misfeading to the public and you wil-f see that's not
the terminology they used in their report. As a .result
of my personal. analysis of this report, there are two
points I woufd f il<e to make to the Commission regarding
the logical and mathematical problems with the study and
the proposed settlement agreement.
The first is this: The Company is
proposing this change in the name of, as mentj-oned, rate
fairness, They wouid like those who incur the costs, at
l-east as they calculate them, to pay the costs, buto25
o
10
o
11
72
L4
15
16
l1
18
19
2A
27
22
23
24
CSB REPORTING
208.890. 5198
CONANT
Pubfic
strangely, from
the resident i a 1
fixed cost repor t
paying for those
the Company's own Eigure
generation customers are
fixed
1 on page 15,
not the ones you
should be targeting. There exists much more vast
misalignment dollar-wise of distribution of fixed costs
within the Schedule 1 resj-dential customer cfass itself.
because the Company has fai.Ied to address the main fixed
cost .issues.
Not discussed by the Company in their
is the large discrepancy between who's
those frxecl
costs and who is actually
costs and frm not talking aboutincurring
solar.m talking about the bulk of Schedule 1,
residential customers not bifled appropriately amongst
each other for fixed costs per the Company's own report,
The examples are not hard to consider,
Someone with a 1ow scaIe, but constant, so
highJ-y-accumulat ing electric 1oad, with a large el-ectric
bill- is bearinq the fixed costs imposed by someone with
minimal overall energy usage, but usage patterns which
drive up the rea.L costs of peak load and time-of-use
generation and infrastructure. A1so, Schedu.Ie 1 on its
own compared to residential on-site generation is 430
times larger. I would ask the Company why are we not
proposing properly assigning the vast majority of fixed
costs within Schedul,e 1.o 25
423
1
2
3
4
5
6
1
8
9
a
a
l-
2
3
4
5
6
1
I
9
10
11
l2
13
15
76
l1
L4
18
20
I9
2l
22
a
23
24
CSB REPORTING
208.890.5198
CONANT
PubIic
If werre trul.y pursuing fixed cost
fairness for Schedule 1 people, this is the proposed
goal, wouldn't it make sense to address 99.8 percent of
the group impacted by the problem, not only the .2
percent who are on-site generation customers? Why are
you
ha ve
discriminating against on-site qeneration saying they
to pay their proper share of fixed costs, but no one
etse? No other schedules were mentioned at al-l- and this
.leads to the most bfatant issue I take with the Company's
study my, second point.
This regards the doLlar amounts involved.
You have to follow the money. I examined the Company's
revenue surplus and deficiency numbers. In that report,
they are clear and with the Company, I must agree, that
they are overcharging residential customers based on
their data by 19 million per year, page L4, or an average
of $60.00 per customer thereabouts, but who is getting
the benefit of thls overcharging by 19 miffion? The
Company makes it sound like it is the residential solar
producers as this is the onl-y party whom the Company is
targeting with this new regul-ation, but only half a
million dolfars of this 19 million overcharge, 2.6
percent, is from residential- so1ar. Yet, the Company is
overcharging by 19 miilion. Who is the other 18.5
milLion subsidizing?25
o I
2
3
4
5
6
1
I
o
10
11
72
a 13
74
15
t6
tl
1B
19
20
2L
22
24
CSB REPORT]NG
208.890.5198
CONAN TPublic
This is not going
ldaho Power t s own
hal f
groups
much
to them, residential-
r:epo rt , Iarge general,solar, but per
industrial, and
not be about a minor
actuafly what those
mi ] f j-on, 60 cimes as
irrigation customers are not
wel-l-. Page 14,
discussion. It
paying their
in Schedule
Ei gu re
s hou l-d
I
fair share of costs, burdening the residents
people pay, perhaps even them as
and if you consider the service charge that these
6, in the report summarizes this
addressinE in this proposal, though
a milIion. I'm tal-king about
are underbilled for totals 31
as ldaho Power is considering
they've had this data
by about that many customers.
for two years.
In rea.Iity, with the data in the fixed
cost report, bilIing, i-f we were to bill on-site
generators perfectly fairly based on the Company's own
numbers, the Cornmission wou]-d save the average Schedu]e 1
customer over the course of an entire year around $1.00.
The math is not hard;
this group recuperated
Everybody is here over
va11ey.
half a million dollars underpaid by
51.00 for the families in this
I ask the Commission why are we not
discussing saving us a1f $60.00 a year? Let's have a
candid discussion about the 20,000 irrigation, large
general, and industrial customers who are causing 97.4I25
425
a 1
2
3
4
6
l
8
9
percent, almost the entire Schedule 1 overcharge totafing
31 miffion and Iet's get that back to Schedule 1
customers.
In World War II, we dropped rubber dummies
in enemy territory so they would spend their limited
ammunitj.on fighting a harmless target. Idaho Poh/er i.s
wasting the Commission and the public's t.ime targeting
the wrong group. I would urge you, the Commission, to
focus your resources on the actual cost burden to Idaho
residential overbilling. Why are we wasting f j.teral-
years targeting residential generat.ion, individual
homeowners, who account for onfy 2.6 percent of the
amount that you are overcharging other residential
customers ?
I am not surprised that the public view of
this is predat.ory to fdaho Power for squashing the
generating pubfic because they encroached on their power
generation monopoly. Here today we are discussing how
best to punish .26 percent or two out of 1,000 customers
for faulty rate structures that failed to account for
fixed costs properly for any of the haff miflion
residentiaf customers. Why target initial change towards
the two smaffest schedule groups, both in numbers and
dol1ars, on your rate fairness quest? Why is the company
discriminatinq in this way? Something you,
CSB REPORT]NG
208.890.5198
CONANT
Public
10
t
11
t2
13
74
15
16
ll
o
18
79
20
2).
22
23
24
25
426
o t
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
t
11
L2
13
14
15
76
t1
18
19
20
27
22
23
24
CSB REPORTING
208.890. 5198
Commissioners, have forbidden.
Orre of the only conclusions the consumer
can make j-s that they are targeted because they do not
have corporations behind them. As an analyst of the
solar coru[unity, which as far as I can teII is in
alignment with federaf and state goals of advancing clean
energy, have made personal. investments in the technology
of the future, have made personal investments in the
clean future of our wor1d, while not taking a single cent
of a paycheck from thej-r investment, only future deferred
cost based on responsibfe calcufations, based on your
prior policy.
Should they rather not be the target of
your suppo.rt having fu11y cooperated with every
regulation and safety protocol you have issued? In fact,
bore additional cost for sure to their systems in order
to meet
and yet,
deslring
regulations, Are
the Company s ent
they some
misleading sr-atements like
sort of law violator
honest and sald they
measuring, They shou.Ld have been
desire l-ucrative billing for Idaho
the accura t-e
Power to the detriment of prior green ene.rgy competition
in ldaho.
You have a ciear goal in thj-s proposal
remove decades of previousfy agreed-upon green energy
incentives to a few. Whife Idaho Power promotes their
to
CONANT
Pubfic
o 25
4',?-1
o 1
2
3
4
5
6
1
I
9
10
1l-
L2
o 13
t4
t5
16
11
r-B
19
20
27
22
23
24
CSB REPORTING
208.890. 5198
CONANT
PubI ic
pro green face to the vast public, they continue to
overcharge tens or: millj-ons to that public while
subsidizing the much more literally power hungry
industrial bottom fines. Shoufd not hourly billing be
marketed as it is, a way to target and discourage
residential- solar customers in an unprecedented way? Why
are they not including Schedule 24 or Schedufe 9? This
is discriminatory.
In the regulation proposal that the
Company would 1i ke excuse me. They would Iike to
discourage future sol-ar installations and for
inappropriate reasons. Again, this is based on data from
their own report. Their own summary language focuses on
classes 6 and 8, a mere 2.4 percent of the problem, as
"especially a problem" on page 15. I ask you why is 2.6
percent of the Company's billing issue especially a
problem while 97.4 percent is not bej.ng mentioned at all
in this proposal ?
I agree that reform is needed, but if
approved, you're targeting the wrong group with this
regulatioil. If power-provlding parties like Idaho Power
are guaranteed a roughly seven percent profit on their
work, why are the truly green, proactive, smal1er, more
risk-exposed, anci personally invested homeowners in Idaho
not worthy of similar consideration? Simply because theyo25
428
I 1
2
3
4
5
6
1
I
9
10
11
t2
I 13
l4
15
16
r'1
1B
79
20
2t
22
23
24
CSB REPORTTNG
208. 890. 5198
CONANT
Publ ic
don't have mil.Iir;ns of stakeholders holding stock
that my residential solar stakeholders are
seven, and 11. They sit across the dinner
certificates or s itt ing
The only
and at some point I'm here
are currently excited about
and future careers defined
across the board room.
personal con'nent T would make rs
ages four,
table from me
them.They
mi nds
also to represent
clean energy with open
by pride in our household
caring we.l" l- f or
smart and they
fimited community resources. They
hear and reference this moment as
a.r e
thousands of children will, They are looking to us to be
like I fall into oneof justice and I know youe xamp.le s
of these t!,/o categories, ScheduJ-e
The Company would
1or Schedule 6
suggest that solar
generators are to be treated as power wholesalers and yet
denied that their solar installation is abfe to pay for
itself or any proflt. Reasonable would be guaranteeing
the same percentage that Idaho Power is guaranteed and
granting depreciation, other tax incentives that af .I
businesses are provided by federal law. Thi.s is, of
course, a ridiculous proposal, Every househol-d will- have
Iow barriers to producing energy in a couple of decades
j-n some form if they stifl own the sun that shj-nes on
their house.
There is an overly complicated ]ega1 messa
429
o 1
2
3
4
5
6
1
8
9
10
11
t2
a 13
74
15
15
71
1B
19
20
2t
22
l3
24
a
CSB REPORTING
208.890.5198
CONANT
PubIic
4 30
that would ensue by making every residence a business.
If we approve t-his further distracting form, the real
source -- excuse me -- if we approve this. Eurther
distracting from the real source of fixed cost inequal-ity
j-n Idaho, letrs stay focused and do our jobs and force
Idaho Power to address the broader fairness issues. Wlth
years into the dj-scussion and the Company pressuring for
quick regulation, it is time we started talking about the
rea-I solution.
Why would the so-caIled beneficiarj-es of
this change not be invited? Because if they came and
actually did the math, this would not be the change they
would want. It does not begin to address their needs.
This begs the question, who is this change representing,
really, if not for a Schedul,e 1 benefit of a doffar? At
the end of my analysi.s, who is this for? This is about
ldaho Power controlling the future of household energy
generation, nothing more, nothing Iess. The higher the
percentage of energy that they contro.I Ieads to more
revenue do11ars. The -larger dol-lar amount of revenue at
their guaranteed profit means more dollars in profit.
To c1ose, Commissioners, if you are for
cJ-ean energy, why punish it? Punishing these .2 percent
of the residents does not even begin to grant the other
450,000 fairness, This is a fie r-hat we are being soId.
o 1
2
3
4
5
6
1
8
9
10
t-1
72
o 13
1.4
15
16
11
1B
79
20
2l
22
23
24
CSB REPORT]NG
208.890.5198
WOLF'E
Public
The math is clear. If you are for rate fairness, then
1et's actually pursue it, instead of straining out a half
miffion dolfar gnat and swallowing a $31 million camel.
Thank you.
COMM] SS]ONER
to the case
KJELLANDER: Any questions
or members of thefrom the part j-es
Cornmi s s ion? If not,
(The
thank
witness
COMMISS IONER
you for your test imony.
left the stand. )
KJELLANDER: Werf .I caf .I now
Rodney Wolfe.
appearlng as
was examined
RODNEY WOLEE,
a public witness, having been duly sworn,
and testified as f oll-ows:
THE WITNESS: Thanks for having me here
tonight. My name is Rodney Wo1fe, R-o-d-n-e-y W-o-l-f-e,
5974 North Will-owdal-e Lane, Garden City, Idaho, 831L4,
and I am an Idaho Power customer and a net metering
customer. Primarj-ly, f want to address the Commission
that I vehemently oppose this proposal. It wiff have a
negative financial- impact on my family as we have
invested significant capj-tal based on the existing net
metering structure. The proposed changes wiff cost me
thousands of dol]-ars over the fife of my instal-l-edo25
431
o 1
2
3
4
5
6
1
I
9
10
11
t2
o 13
l4
15
L6
11
1B
19
2A
21
22
23
CSB REPORT ]NG
208.890.5198
WOLEE
PubI ic
equ ipmen t
from the
stories, the face
promoting this is
began planning to
I planned to put
correct.l-y, south
sofar. We saved.
committed and we
and eliminate any transfer value
resalc :>-f lny home in the f uture.
potentiaffy
You must at
Anyt h i ngl-east grandfather existing cogen customers,
el-se woufd be unfair, unjust.
I want to share just the story of how I
came about my investment, because it wasnrt about a cost
savings. It was about trying to make a difference, a
tiny sna11 difference, in the world. I don't know if you
read the news, but it seems l-ike we have a carbon
problem. This was something that I coul-d do for myself,
my famj-ly, my neighbors, my conmunity, my state, my
world, the globe to make one smal-l- impact, and it seems
that for the last 10 plus, 15 years, Irve been being told
thatrs the responsible thing to do. Itrs what we all
need to be thi.nkj-ng about doing.
The incentives we.re a]1 there. The
on the power companies, everybody was
what you shoufd do. Twelve years ago I
put thls. I moved to a smaller home.
a solar -- the home was positioned
exposure. We always planned to do
We planned. In 2018, we finally
it was a maj or commitment.
due to some medi-cal-
We had to
things. I
July, my
then put it off fcr
t-hi nk it's ironic: in
a year
Lhat 1 gor- my permrt thiso25
o 1
2
3
4
5
6
1
B
9
t0
11
72
o 13
74
76
l7
18
l9
20
2L
22
?-3
24
CSB REPORTING
208.890.5198
WOLEE
Publ ic
electricaf permit I
.IuIy, my efectri.cal
insta.I f at ion of my
something, I think,
the 23rd, surprise.
Wow,
calculation we made
think in -- my ldaho
permit in September.
Power permit in
T finished the
system on
the 17 th
October 15th. I went l-ive
and I received the fetter on
that seems like a bad deal,
was based on the one-to-one
so every
month I y
we s i gned
f i na 11y,
net metering program, so that was the deal that
up for. That was the deal- that we relied on, so
this is a bad idea at the worst time for many reasons
that everybody expressed by all of the people and all of
the testimony here today. Shame on anyone who woufd even
consider enacting this whatever it is. I hope everybody
can sleep at night. Thanks.
COMMISSIONER KJELLANDER: Do we have any
questions? If not, thank you for your testimony.
(The witness left the stand. )
COMMISSIONER K,JELLANDER: James Crussweff .
Are you James? No, okay,
Let's see, th.is name I cannot read. It is
2498 East Ashbrook Court, the resident of 2496 East.
Ashbrook Court.
Steven Nelson.
Pat Bea1e.
a
433
o
a
1
2
3
4
5
6
1
I
9
10
LL
L2
13
l4
15
15
71
a
1B
19
20
2l
22
2.3
24
CSB REPOP.T]NG
208.890.5198
BEALE
Public
appearang as
was examined
PAT BEALE,
a pui:J.ic witness, havrng been duly sworn,
and testified as follows:
THE WITNESS:
live at 2012 South Harmony
Idaho Power customer and --
My name is Patrick Beale. I
Avenue in Boise and I'm an
me to start back?
guy rlght there.
(Aud io lost. )
THE WITNESS: Okay, where would you
Beale, B-e-a-.I-e. IrIl Iook at
'f he re ' s been
1i ke
that
peopfe,
I woufd
tomea
very educated people that have
some very tal-ented
spoken tonight and
that I think it'sagree with some of the
very obvious decis ion
spea kers
that can be made by the Comm.issron
hearing this matter. You know, I've been involved in
public processes in the past and public involvement can
be very contentious and it can be very difficult to buil-d
that consensus and, you know, when we first got into
actuafly having our own system, I caLled Idaho Power and
I said I hear that there's some words going on. There's
something that's brewing about possible changes, and they
said -- anyway, I talked with them. They said, you know,
you might speak to the PUC, so I cal]ed over here. I
said I wouJ-d real-J"y like to keep my ear on the track on
this. I woul-d really like to be involved, so I got
434
a 1
2
3
4
5
6
7
I
9
10
11
I2
o 13
1.4
15
t6
11
18
19
20
2L
22
23
24
a
CSB REPORT ING
208.890. s198
BEALE
Publ- ic
signed up to be able to get some electronic mailings and
other things and the point is that I basically got
nothing and Irm not complaining about that.
It's just I wanted to be involved and
vested in this whole process and I didn't rea]J-y have
that chance. I was very surprised to get the letter, but
the letter was vague enough t.hat it didn't really
describe to me what was happeninq, and by the time that
fetter came out, itrs like well, the
been made is the way 1t seemeci to me.
not at all be the case at all, but I
in which to be able
I'm not prepared,
decision has
Now, that
feel fike I'
to spea k
because f
a l ready
mi ght
m coming
up here
didn't
eyes or to
times that
systems in
in at the Ilth hour
and I afso feef that
real1y realize this
close to the finish
but something that
your ears tonight
train was on the track and we're so
I can say I would agree with
well-educated folks that have
maybe that bad is on me, but
virtuall-y all- of the real1y
spoken here today.
1ine. so
I did want
and that is
to bring to your
I 've heard a few
Some realIy great information came out,
therers maybe 4,000 people that
the state, 4,000, and if their
have net meter
on that was $20,000, and
price that they
that ' s actualfy
ave rage
I thinkspent
low,but let's just say. you know, we'fl be conservative,
thatrs $80 mil]ion we've put on the line as private25
435
o 1
2
3
4
6
1
I
9
10
11
o
CSB REPORTING
208.890.5198
BEALE
Public
individual-s that ldaho Power did not have to put out in
order to obtain t-hat power.
I mean, the return on investment, the risk
that I and my family
it's significant for
has invested in these
have incurred, itrs signif.icant and
anybody el-se thatrs out there that
systems and, you know, to
that return on investment or have itpotentia Ify
extended out
not have
to 35 years or something if my
dead by then.that long, you know, I'11 be
system
I wifl
we have
goes
have
inmoved out. There's a f inancia.l- stake that
this and we donrt want to lose that resource.
I know that I just recently read that
Zillow has stated after assessing all of the sales of
houses that have net meterinq systems and that don't and
they feel that there's a 4.1 percent gain in property
va.Iues, so it's not a l-ot, but it's stiff significant.
4.1 percent your property is worth more compa.red to comps
if you have a system as compared to if you don't have a
system, so I think that's important that a lot of money
has come in, and I said $80 million if we're talking
about -- that they're spending closer to $40,000, you
know, pretty soon you're at $200 million we put out of
pocket, the citizens, in the last 10 years in order to do
these systems, so I guess it's just a big deal-.
And the final thing that I wanted to Ieaveo
436
L2
13
L4
15
16
L-t
18
19
20
2t
22
24
25
o
10
ll
72
a 13
L4
15
16
t1
1',d
19
2A
2l
22
23
24
CSB REPORTING
208.890. s198
BEALEPublic
the Commission with, and by the way, thank you for being
here tonight and listeninq for so 1ong, j-t's been a l-ong
night for everybody, and that is to lift your eyes up and
not just look at this individual- decision, which you have
to do, but to look further down the road. I heard
someone tafk about a telescope and using that as the
analogy, you know, look at what's coming to the state in
20 years from now.
I know p robab I y
and I'm
virtually everyone in here
has kids or
what ' s going
grandkids
to be the
COMMT SS IONER
your testimony.
the Commlssion?
world and we' r:e
do, too, and
talking 20 and 40
the road and are we
sure you
years down the road and 60 years
in the right? Are you guys, are
the right dlrection j-n order to
be and that's the question that
down
you steering
get to where
I would offer
the ship in
we want to
to you that
you need to anshrer as part of what you're
Idaho Power's proposal, so thank you very
KJELLANDER:
Are there any
assessing with
much .
Thank you and we
questi-ons fromappreciate
parties or
agaln.
There are none, so thanks
COMI.{ISSIONER KJELLANDER: Louis LandTy.
(The witness Left the stand. )
RA Robbins.
Louis Landry?
o 25
431
1
2
3
4
6
1
9
o 1
2
3
4
5
6
1
I
9
10
11
t2
o 13
74
15
L6
L1
1B
19
20
27
22
23
24
O
CSB REPORT ING
208. 890.5198
SHEPPARD
PubI ic
Doug from 3895 North Buckstone Avenue,
Merid.ian. Doug?
St ephen
Stephanie. We ' 11 take
Sheppard. Stephen
a Stephanie.
oh.
appearing as
was examined
STEPHANIE SHEPPARD,
a public witness, having been duly sworn,
and testified as follows:
THE WITNESS: My name is Stephanie
Sheppard, S-t-e-p-h-a-n-i-e, Sheppard, S-h-e-p-p-a-r-d.
I l-ive at 6330 West Montana Avenue here in Boise and I'm
an Idaho Power customer. Eor years I've waited for Idaho
Power to devel-op solar solutions so that I coufd buy into
their program. I waited and I waited and I read their
stuff and they continued to be committed to
hydroelectric, coaI, and gas. I waited a l-ittIe longer
and fina11y, I went to a home show and I bought the
system. I paid big bucks for the system. I got my tax
break and like everyone e1se, we waj-ted for Idaho Power
to buy into the system and they didn't do it.
The government supported me and Idaho
Power did not. Three years fater ldaho's commitment to
power, to sofar power, is about the same as it was 10
years ago. Their commitment to going green by 2045, make25
438
I 1
2
3
4
5
6
1
I
9
10
11
t?
I 13
74
l5
76
L1
1B
19
20
2l
22
23
24
CSB REPORT]NG
208.890.s198
SHE P PARD
PubI ic
no mistake. it is not about solar. ftrs about
hydroelectric. Their material says that. Thelr website
says that. Their commitment to going green in 2045 is
not about so1ar.
I travel extensively throughout the worl-d
and the last 20 years I've been surprised at how much I
the world, Last summer fa ro undsee sofar panels pop up
was in the mi-ddle of the
solar panel, a couple of
Serengetj- in Africa, there's a
them. Come back to Idaho and
our Idaho Power. which is a
here in this state, remains
solar solution, They cite
monopoly on our power system
again uncommitted to the
infrastructure costs. They
analogy earfier, they' re
missile.
3-5,000 of us depending on
that they want to crush.
cry fou1.
beating a
I l- i ked the guyr s
gnat with a cruise
There I s four
who you ta.Ik to, 3-5,000 of us
They bore no cost in putting in my system. l donrt do
math in public, so I like the $80 million cost that this
group of people put together, because we believe in a
solution that the Power Company is not providing to us.
I fiken this issue to think 20 years ago, imagine Century
Link, the phone company, punishing those of us who wanted
to buy cel-l- phones back in the day by increasing the celL
phone because they had to have a land.Iine to our house.
Resistance is futile. You may -- if yout25
439
I 1
2
3
4
5
6
1
I
9
10
11
L2t13
74
15
16
71
18
19
20
2l
22
23
24
CSB REPORT ING
208.890.5198
SHEPPARD
Pubf i c
approve
crush,
this/ Conmissioners, Vou may crush, you will
the sol;rr induslry in lclaho for a l-ittle whiJ-e,
but rest assured, I think the solar energy
remain cornnltted. I wifl remain committed.
Idaho Power. They
reject and null-if y
have the monopoly.
companies wil-]
I will buy
years , sol-ar i. s
Water is a
this request from
They're punishing
put in $80 million
the wrong side of
that generator and I wil-f find the
world and I wil-l find that battery
grid and I'J-I help everybody f carr
I ask the members to
Efon Musks of the
and I will get off the
do it.
-- they're
into the Please don't be onprograms.
because in
punishing those of us who
history,20
the answer. CoaI 1s a finite resource.
finite resource. If the sun goes away, werre all dead
anyway, so that doesn't matter. I thj-nk solar is going
to be around. Please don't reward Idaho Power and punish
the so.l-ar f ol-ks who are trying to do the right thing.
Thank you.
COMMISSIONER KJELLANDER: Any questions
from the parties or members of the Commission? Thank you
for your testimony.
(The witness feft the stand. )
COMMISSIONER KJELLANDER: C].inton and I
can't make out the fast name, h,ut Cfinton from 5914, is
that West View, Meridian? okay.I 25
444
a 1
2
3
4
5
6
7
I
9
10
11
72
o 13
L4
15
16
71
1B
79
20
2L
22
23
24
CSB REPORTING
208.890.5r98
HOOPS
Pub 1i c
CLINTON HOOPS,
appearing as a pubLic witness, having been first duly
sworn, testified as follows:
THE WITNESS: My name is Clinton Hoops.
Last name is spelled H-o-o-p-s. Address is 5914 West
View Drive, Meridian, and I am an fdaho Power customer.
I skipped bringlng my notes up here partly because a lot
of this stuff has al-ready been covered, but one of the
things that's been touched upon or hasnrt been touched
upon is when Idaho Power comes here in looking at rates
and investments,'theyrre guaranteed a return on their
investment by the PUC. The home generators are not
gua.ranteed any return. We're making that investment as a
gambl-e, and rea11y, we're, yes, we're looking at --
depending on discount rates applied, Irve done way too
many economi-c analyses and played with those numbers that
we're sitting out there 15-20 years to maybe break even
and that's a maybe, because weII, our system also l-oses
efficiency during its lj-fetime.
Numbers vary by half a percent to one
percent a year. Those numbers are hard to cal-cufate into
those analyses unless you reaffy get serious about it, so
we are -- I'm just going to say that we're fooking at a
minimum of a 2O-year payback generaffy, so is it fair foro25
o
o
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
l0
11
L2
13
t-4
15
16
l1
18
79
)A
2l
22
23
24
CSB REPORTING
208.890.5198
reafly a future customer to put solar on their
with the rates tirurt are being suggested in this
house and
settlement agreement? We're
start tal- king discount rates
that, we're talking this IS
no economic sense to it, and
investmenc that ldaho Power
to approve.
tafking -- actuaffy, if you
and throw j-ng things into
a 50-year payback and there's
it certain.Iy wouldn' t be an
woufd make and expect the PUC
viirhin that, the other point I'11
is thls is distr j.buted generation. Idaho Power
their peaker plants siLes it want to site it
bri-ng up
in s it ing
as cfose
to the cusLomer as poss.ible. Thatrs exactly $rhat we're
to the crtstomer.We're siting our system
neighbor, Past that, I
doing.next
He' s our a l-ot of
done a fot
appreciate
sald. I
can't emphasize enough that I really
agreement shoul,d be rej ected.
really recommend
feel the sett lement
your comnents.
(The witness feft- the stand. )
have to thank
people who have -- ,foshua ar)d others who have
of research, much more eloquent than I am. I
their comments and whoIly support what theyrve
COMMISSIONER KJELLANDER: Thank you for
COMM.ISS1ONER KJELLANDER: We'11 caff next
Sean Manion, HJ-dden Valley Drive.
Jer ry Jensen .
HOO PS
Publ ic
O
o 1
2
3
4
5
6
"t
I
9
10
o
11
72
13
L1
18
14
15
15
19
20
2l
22
23
24
CSB REPORTING
208. 890.5198
44.1
appearang as
was exam.ined
JERRY JENSEN,
a public witness, having been duly sworn,
and testified as foflows:
THE WITNESS: Heflo, my
Jensen. I live at A12L East Indigo in
I'm here because I want to talk about a
name ls Jerry
Idaho, and
of things
so }ate in
Nampa,
coup l-e
it ' sthat have not been mentioned. I'm
important.
sorry
The
My air conditioner
1l: 00 o ' clock in
the evening, but they' re
littfe secret of rooftop
matter what you do today,
degree as I learned when
panels ln August and then
It was going backwards.
it kept golng brackwards.
put a smalf system in, so
wasn ' t my air conditioner,
11,:30 than it was two days
that and I'm a physj-cist.
think my solar panels are
solar energy provi-ders. No
they will benefit to some
I first installed my solar
wenL out and watched the meter.
first is a shady
came on and
85 degrees, it's golng backwards. It shoufdn't
I went in the
my house. The reason it's so
the morn.rng,
be. I
neighbor's.
It's 70 degrees in
because I just put
southern exposures
I peaked over the fence. It
iL was my
house.
cool is
a bunch of solar panefs on all of my
and all of a sudden, my house is 10
before.
degrees
We aff
cofder at
benefit from
1 get to make this estimate. I
the equivalent to two very
JENSEN
Pubfic
o 25
t 1
2
3
4
5
6
1
8
9
large shade trees by my house, and if every Idaho Power
customer had two mature shade trees in their yard, we
woul-d all use a lot less power during the peak periods,
and we all know r.rhen that is, it's midsummer, right?
Solar he1ps, but frankly, that shade
helps, too. It hel-ps a lot, but the other thing I vrant
to teLl you -- talk about is net metering. This is a
powerful tool if you use it right and can be very
helpful. Under the proposed rate structure, j-t wil-l- be
to my advantage to use the most power while I'm producing
the most power. I should run my washer, my dryer, my
dishwasher, my expensive heater all during the day when
frm producing the most power. but that helps Idaho Power
the least because that's when they need power on the
grid.
What helps you 1s if I use my net metering
and push those energy uses that I do have a choice on
into the evening, okay, into the times that the grid is
not loaded, and you can monitor that, Idaho Powe.r does
monitor that. They assured me they are and they're
charging me $5.00 a month to do that, okay, but think of
the power of this. If all of these users who are such a
burden on the rest of the grid were af .I turning their
thermostats up at noon and not running their air
conditioners during peak periods, which is generally from
10
11
L?
I 13
L4
15
16
l1
1B
19
20
27
22
23
1,l
CSB REPORT ]NG
208.890.5198
JENSEN
Pubf i c
t
445
o I
2
3
4
5
6
7
I
9
10
11
72
o 13
l4
15
l6
l1
1B
19
2A
27
22
23
?4
CSB REPORT]NG
208.890.5198
JENSEN
Publ ic
to do so, now, all of a sudden, we're not
the foad on the grid at peak times, we're
distribute that foad.
As we al.L know, solar is a
4:00 to 6:00 p.rn. in
down, as we afl can
the evening, j ust
and $,/ould do i f we
shutting them
had an incent ive
only reducing
hefping to
at, but they' re
solar panel s
also the
prob f em
systems
for and
when t hat
go down.
cloud pops up and
That I s what ldaho
bit of a
all your solar
Power has to design
that ' s the cost they're Iooking
of urbannot 1oo ki ng
reducing the
wi J-l ingnes s
properly inc
periods. We
we saw that
at the cost saving
cost of heating homes and
of net meter:ing cost to
entivized to reduce our
customers if we' re
use during
th ing
the peak
we did whenwill do that and the first
net meter is we went from four washes I
means four loads of washes a week to two.
nlght, not because it was mc,re
We sta.rted running the dishwasher late at
know the grid is loaded in the
efficient, but because we
afternoon, and we can al-l-
using net metering, thi s
way to lncentivize the use
by people that have the
can program my furnace not
needs the power and we can
help in that and you could by
very powerful too1, the right
of energy in off peak periods
choice and most of us do. I
to come on when I know Idaho
turn this around and use it the right way. Thank you foro25
445
o t
2
3
4
5
6
1
I
9
10
11
l2
o 13
L4
15
l6
1-1
1B
l9
2A
2t
23
24
CSB REPORT ING
208.890.5198
LABRUM
Publ ic
your time.
(:OMMISSIOI.IER K.IELL.ANDER: And thank vou
for your testimony today.
(The witness left the stand. )
COMMISSIONER KJELLANDER: Dirk Bodily.
Dirk Bodily?
Scott Moore. Scott Moore?
Richard Brennan. Richard Brennan, Two
Rivers Drive, Eagle.
Gary from 10952 North Haw.Iey place ln
Eag1e.
THE AUDIENCE: Hanley.
COMMlSSIONER KJELLANDER :Hanley, okay,
COMMISSIONER KJELLANDER: Lab rum.
THE AUDIENCE: L- a-b- r -u -m.
COMMISSIONER KJELLANDER: Okay.
appear j-ng as
was examined
GARY LABRUM,
a pubfic witness, having been duJ,y swo.rn,
and t.estified as folfows:
THE WITNESS: My name
L-a-b-r-u-m. Gary is with a single "
is Gary Labrum,
live at l- 0 952r. " Io25
446
and your last name?
THE AUDIENCE: Labrum.
o 1
2
3
4
5
6
1
I
9
10
72
11
13
27
l4
15
16
tl
18
19
20
t
22
23
24
CSB REPORTING
208.890. 5198
LABRUM
Public
of where I spend
North Hanfey
I'm an Idaho
the upcharge
federal tax
P l ar,-re ,H-a-n-l-e-y, in Eag1e, Idaho, 83616.
ratepayer. Customer denotes a choice
a consumer. I am a solar customer.
l)()!,teI
AS
My testimony concerns IPUC Case No. IPC-E-18-15. Idaho
Power has made this filing to the Publ-j-c Utilities
Commission that could change the net metering program for
ratepayers. My wife and I are opposed.
We built a new smaller home, two bedrooms
and 1,080 square feet, in 2014 seekj-ng enerqy and labor
efficiencies. We invested $29,000 in that new home to
just have the rooftop solar panels, bypassing much
fancier interior and exterior finishes to be able to
util-ize our cash as so.l-ar and to stay on budget. We made
that decision to achieve some form of energy
.independence.
of the des j-gn anci
t,ie
of
ag re ement
to insta I l
rnade the decision at the very beginning
building process to utilize sofar, with
the decision being because we would bethe maj or part
able to uti-Iize the then current Idaho Pohrer pricing
structure and to help with
solar at t-he
being able to afford
time. State and
factors enabled our
decision to go forward
down the road what we
mi ght
pos s ibi 1j- t y that sometime
in for energy independence
incentives helped.
with the
invested
Those
ever heip us break even doll.ars-and-cents-wise.o 25
441
o 1
2
3
4
5
6
'7
o
9
Our sol-ar panels have enabLed us to be a
net exporter of electrical energy. We have generated
over 24 megawatt-hours of power sj.nce we installed our
system and went l-ive in October of 2016. We do not
expect to get a check from Idaho Power. We are satisfied
with being abfe to accumul"ate a credit that may offset
energy use when we're not able to export the power, never
to be reimbursed.
We are not in the energy business. We did
not expend resources to make a profit. We wished to not
be behofden to the whims of a utility and also believe
that the program at the Idaho Power, state, and federal
levels was created to incentivize purchasing renewable
generation.
Solar rooftop generators account for l-ess
than -- pick any number, but I picked 8/10th of one
percent of Idaho Powerrs ratepayers. Eight years from
now Idaho Power only wants to credj-t us with what will
probably be less than 30 percent of what they will be
charging their ratepayers for electricaf energy. The
$80 mil-llon, f used an even lower figure, if that 8,/10th
of one percent spent just half of what I have, theyrve
invested more than $60 million into generating power for
the grid.
We, my wife and I, who invested to try to
10
11
1.2
o 13
14
15
t6
l1
18
79
20
27
22
23
24
o
CSB REPORTING
208.890.5198
LABRUM
Publ ic
25
4 48
o 1
3
4
5
6
-7
I
9
10
11
l2t13
t4
15
15
L1
1B
t9
20
2t
22
24t
CSB REPORT]NG
208.890.5198
attain energy independence
PubIic Uril iLies Ccmrnission
would hope that the Idaho
be an arbiter
their capacity for
of ethics, fairness, andoversight would
protection for
al- Iow us alf to
IN
the residents of the St.ate of Idaho and
maintain the original terms that we
thought we were doing.
attention at this late
your comments and there are
appreciate your testimony.
THE WITNESS:
appea.rang as
was examined
COMMISSIONER K.TELLANDER: Thank you for
Thank you for your time and
hour of the night.
no questions,so we
Thank you.
(The witness feft the stand. )
COMMISSIONER KJELLANDER: Robert Kunz.
ROBERT KUNZ,
a publ j-c witness, having been duly sworn,
and testified as follows:
THE W]TNESS:
fast name ls spelled K-u-n-z.
Hilf Court in Boise, and I am
My name is Robert Kunz. The
1rm at L1367 West-
an Idaho customer,
Power customer, on Schedufe 5. I'm going to
onfine here to just keep it brief, but f was
attend testimony yesterday and I fooked back
the documents on the PUC website about ldaho
try
abfe
Hickory
I daho
to edit
to
at some of
Power cases
449 KUNZ
Pr:bl rc
o 1
2
3
4
5
6
1
8
9
in net meter.ing from the past. It's very clear that
there's a ]ot's of tension here between alf the
interested parties goinq way, way back.
In this matter, based on Order 34046, the
docket to comprehensl,vely study the costs and benefits of
on-site generation of fdaho Power's system is what we're
here for. I think Idaho Power believes that the
settlement agreement that they produced actually meets
its objectives. They even titl-e it that way, but what j-t
really does is it just rewrites Schedufe 6 and 8 to
include new concepts such as net hourly meeting --
metering, blended base energy rate, export credit rates,
It doesnrt discuss any benefj-ts of on-site generation,
does not present logic for how the proposed changes came
to be. It rea11y isnrt a study. It's an attempt at a
rate redesign and it jumps to a conc.Iusion.
Looking back at the history, this seems to
be Idaho Powerrs methodology to petition the PUC for
changes to net metering, throw something out there and
see if it will f1y. As far back as 2012, Idaho Power
opened a case, IPC-E-I2-27, which introduced Schedule 6
and 8 for the first time, spelled out changes to them to
increase the service charge and introduce a basic load
capacity charge, simj-1ar to a demand charge.
The PUC rejected that pl,an and even then
10
11
12
I 13
L4
15
t6
L1
18
19
20
2t
22
24
CSB REPORT]NG
208.890.5198
a 25
450 KUNZ
Pubf i c
o 1
2
3
4
5
6
1
8
o
10
t1
L2
a r3
L4
15
16
L1
18
79
2A
2l
22
23
24
CSB REPORT ING
208.890. s198
KUNZ
Pub-Lfc
instructed Idaho t'ower to be ready with a cost-benefit
analysis and plrt jt all together for the next general
rate case,
their next
a.Ilowed to
generation
that.
again to penali ze
others have taf ked
that will make PV
export energy wi 11
the sma11,
We're stiLl- waiting for that rate case. In
attempt in IPC-E-17-13, Idaho Power was
create Schedule 6 and 8 to seg.regate on-site
customers even though Schedule 84 already did
Even the PUC Staff
change. The common thread through
argued against thi s
much of the Staff
discussion is that Idaho Power is arguing for
that their own data does not
change s
're backNow, v/e
one
support.
.l-es s than
about, customers with a
systems unfeasible. In the end
be worth half of import
ba I ance
percent as
rate schedufe
ene rgy
point,
and
customers will have to attempt to
hour 1y .
their net usage
BasicalIy fdaho Power wants to discourage
on-site generatj-on in the strongest possible manner. Of
course, this is contrary to their stated goal of 100
percent renewable by 2045. I think it's an attempt to
sta11 on-site generation projects and persist in
antiquated rate tariffs. Idaho Power is resisting
industry changes brought on by distributed energy
resources. Let's get out of the past and into the futurea25
451
o 1
2
3
4
5
6
1
I
9
10
11
72
o 13
74
l5
15
71
18
19
20
21.
22
23
24
a
CSB REPORT ING
208.890.51-98
SCHWARZ
Publ ic
with a well thoughc-out plan to take into account DERS
and distributicnaf equity t-o come up with a new general
rate case.
I hope the Commj.ssion rejects this
settlement agreement in favor of a comprehensive general
rate case that utifizes the fixed cost study that others
have talked about in current rate design trends. Thanks
for your time tonight.
COMMTSSIONER KJELLANDER:Thank you, and
there belng na questions,we appreciate your testimony
th j-s evening .
(the wit-ness left the stand. )
COMMISSIONER KJELLANDER: The next name I
can make out, the first name is Steve from 12101. Okay,
oh, that's Schwarz.
appearrng as
was examined
STEVE SCHWARZ,
a public witness, having been duly sworn,
and tesEified as folfows:
' THE WITNESS: My name j-s Steve Schwarz. I
l-ive at 12101 Sheloko Road, CaLdwell, Idaho. I am an
Idaho Power customer re.l-uctantly and Irm also a solar
producer.
COMMISS]ONER RAPER: Can you spell your?5
452
a 1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
1l
L2
o 13
74
t5
16
71
1B
19
20
2t
22
23
24
CSB REPORT ING
208. 890. 5198
SC HWARZ
Publ- i c
l-as t name ?
TtiE WITNESS: S-c-h-w-a-r-2. Do you need
me to spelf Sheloko, too? Okay, just checking. A11
riqht. so we got into solar a few years ago primarily
because when we moved to our new p1ace, our power bill
was extraordinary. $850 a month was our average power
bi]1. It was then that f rea.Iized that therers a tiered
rate structure, which really penalizes peopfe that use a
l-ot of power, so we're out in the middle of nowhere and
we have no natural gas, so our choice i-s propane or
e]ectric and we have cows and some horses and now we
irrigrate.
We use a ground source heat
be a little bit more efficient with how we
pump trying to
use heat, so
us to get away
tier three,
it seems f ike
everything uses power. There's no way
from efectricity, so we're in the top
and I started looking at the rates and
Simplot when they're, you know, doj-ng
tor
tler,
wow,
whatever thev're
doing, they get a pretty good deal-, but man, I'm sure
getting the shaft, so we didn't -- you know, I'd like to
say I did sol-ar because 1'm green. I drive diesel- trucks
and diesel tractors. I l-ike hot rods.
I'm not a green guy, but I used to be a
CPA and I can do the math, so we penciled it out and
based on how we could build an 80 percent system thata25
453
a 1
2
3
4
5
6
'l
8
9
10
11
l2t13
t4
15
15
71
18
19
20
21.
22
23
24
CSB REPORTING
208 - 890.5198
SCHWARZ
PubIic
woul-d cut our
power bill by almost
it would
a 70 percent system that would cut our
90 percent
of, and for
because of the rate that
us, it got our payback
down to
get
about
us out
7-10 years. It
factors and
depends
it was a
if you cons ider
$l-00,000 system.some of the other
Sam for
We got a tax credit. I appreciate Uncle
that, but, you know, we're still talking about
out of pocket. If this rate structure goes in, I
rough bac k-of-the-nap kin cal-culatlons and the
the master's in economics was more thorough than
$75,000
did some
guy with
me, but I tend to agree with his
little bit lower, but I woufd end
month.Iy system and my por"r nitt
numbers. Mine were a
up payrng more
than I paid with
for my
my
and fpower bill before. My payback would be 20 years
would probably end up on average
in the months where right now 1'm
paying $350 a month even
paying zero, so from a
hardshj-p perspective, it just seems completely
ridicul,ous. I don't underst-and it.
The gentleman talked about the unfairness
of cost structure. Absolutely. If you want fair rates,
Irm all about fair rates, but it costs a certain amount
of money to
paying the
have at it.
the number
produce a
same rate?
Here ' s your
of gigawatts
If Ml cron is using 25 gigawatts,
dollar, here's
ki.Iowatt. Why are we not a1l
rate, here's
you used and
you.r
you t re in. II25
454
o 1
2
3
4
5
6
1
I
9
10
11
72
a 13
t4
15
76
l1
18
19
20
2t
22
23
24
o
CSB REPORT]NG
208.890.5198
SC HWARZ
Public
shouldn't have to pay more than they shoufd; same
much power irrigation
I think if we're going
th lng
takes,with irrigation.
because we do rL,
it fair, let's make
What
seem to get charged
much I use and then
it fair.
seems particular]y unfair is that I
-- so Irm charged more based on how
f get how
too, but to ma ke
save, so back in 2016, Idaho
go up when people start to
Power raised the power rates
more money.
have gone up
my rate s
because of
Okay, wel1,
in the 1as t
doing very
reduced consumption. They needed
Idaho Power's earnings per share
three years. It doesn't seem like theyrre
up over the last
bil-f ha s, so it
getting charged
thing that really got me
the dialogue around cost
bunch of garbage. I used
this year, and their net income has gone
three years. Mine hadn't, but my power
seems like, you know it seems J-ike, I'm
no matter what I do.
well
Okay, wel1, I've got
that's fine, but I would lj-ke to see
to pay for power,
it be fair. The
particular case is
Cost shifting is a
about this
shifting.
awfuf lot of stuff with numbers,
and f can do an
like everybody
in many studies,
Brookings
is actually a net
tobea CPA
j ust
efse. Cost shifting has been debunked
but a 2016 study by Brookings, by the
Institution, showed that net metering
benefit.25
455
o
O
1
2
3
4
5
b
1
I
9
In the articfe f was reading, it was
talking about a study that was commissioned by the Maine
Public Utj-fities Commission in 2015, they put a value of
33 cents per kilowatt-hour on energy generated by
distributed solar compared to the average retaif price of
13 cents per kilowatt-hour, so it seems like there's a
difference even in val-ue from a sol-ar generation
perspective, whj-ch quite honestfy makes a fot of sense.
Werre not taking -- wer.re not burning
fossil- fue1s. We're, you know we're, using essentially
feftover roof space to generate free power back into the
grid at the times when it's needed the most, It seems
like -- I'm not convinced this isn't about green energy,
because I think it is . I 'm j ust not sure we' re a.L.l
aligned on whaL the green is. I think the green is
money. I think it's all about Idaho Power being a
monopoly. Either they want to monopolj-ze the producti-on
and distribution of power, which they kind of do now
anyway, or theyrre trying to get rid of solar technology,
which I donrt think makes a lot. of sense, but I wou.l-dn't
be at all surprised to see them -- it seems like they're
trying to get us out of the market.
Why would you penalize -- why would you
r,rant to penalize and dj.sincent peop.Ie for adding power
back into the grid? It doesnrt make sense to me, so my
10
11
72
13
L4
15
16
)-1
1B
t9
2A
27
22
23
?4
CSB REPORTING
208.890.5198
S CHWARZ
Publ ic
O
456
o 1
2
3
4
6
1
9
t0
11
t2
o 13
74
15
76
L1
18
79
2A
21
22
23
24
CSB REPORTING
208.890.5198
S CHWARZ
PubIic
numbers, I did the numbers, too, for the amount of money
that the solar producers
with numbers of probably
assumed that if there's
have in the system and I came up
c.Ioser to $250 milf ion. I
5,000 rooftop installs and at an
I thi.nk at a m.ini-mum we shoufd continue
average i ns t al]
they are, ours
1f it, s 20,000,
of money.
with the net metering
price of 50,000, f don't know how big
was twj,ce that, that would be 250 mj-llion.
then it woufd be 100 million. It's a lot
believe that it
program the way that it is, but I
makes sense to continue that andre a 11y
to set
are --
the precedent now for Idaho Power to say no, we
this is a great opportunity to set policy for this
state to say no, we a.re going to
technofogy. Did you realize that was actuafly the
They didn't
it away and what
to be the Koda k.
invest in cl-ean
Koda k
ones that invented the digital camera?
think -- they thought it was a fad, gave
do you see of Kodak now? We donrt want
We want to be the AppJ-e of the so.lar technology industry.
A11 right, there's a.Ll I have. Thanks for your time.
CCMMISSIONER KJELLANDER: ThanK you, and
we appreciate your corments.
THE WITNESS: I know you guys wil-l- make
the right choice.
(The witness left the stand. )o 25
451
o 1
2
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
72
O 13
L4
l5
16
T1
1B
19
2A
27
22
23
24
CSB REPORT]NG
208.890.5198
EOWKES
Publ ic
Ben Purs ley?
appearing as
was examined
COMMISSIONER KJELLANDER: Ben Pursley.
Dan Skinner. Dan S kinne r ?
Gr:eg from Telemark Street in Boise. Greg?
Williams Fowkes.
W]LLIAM EOWKES,
a public witness, having been duly sworn,
and testified as follows:
Eowkes,
THE WITNESS: Yes, my name 1s Willlam
F-o-w-k-e-s. I l.ive at 3011 Taft Street in Boise
an Tdaho customer at my address there, and T amand I am
a net metering customer across town
house and sponsor for her because I
at my
am her
daughter's
guardian. One
of people
testimony,
thing t might note is that you've got a ]ot
here for a long time. We've heard a Iot of
and if we're to believe that net metering customers are
harming other non-producing customers, then where are
those outraged ol-her customers or at least mildly annoyed
customers? !,/hy aren't they standing up and saying yes,
you guys are reaily causing me some harm. I don't think
we've heard anything along those llnes tonlght and I
thlnk that ' s rather telling.
I do want to go on to say that I wou.Ido25
458
I L
2
J
4
5
5
1
I
9
10
11
72t13
14
15
16
L1
18
L9
20
2L
22
23
24
CSB REPORTING
208.890. s198
EOWKES
Publ ic
fike to give some meaning to some words that are relevant
here, even gor.ng into the dictionary to define them, so
there's a word that sometimes has been used that's called
renege and that is a verb that means to go back on a
promise or an undertaking or
word honor, which is a noun,
principle for ethical- conduct.
relevant to the changes in net
a contract. There is the
refers to high respect
the adherence to whatand great esteem and j-t refers to
is right as a code of honor,
the Golden RuIe and this is a
as you want to be treated and
which
and then there's the term
pr incipl e
itrs used
Al- 1 of
metering
of treating other
as a guiding
these words ar:e
that Idaho Power
is propos ing.
When I relied on the net metering policies
of Idaho Power as set forth 1n 2016 to make my decisions
to purchase an 1B-paneI PV pot/er-generating system to the
tune of some $20l000, there was no asterisk attached to
those documents that I reca.Ll allowing for Idaho Power to
renege and not folfow thr:ough with the program that I
signed up for if they no longer felt like dolng that.
This decislon was not for me afone, but as a co-guardian
for our deve Iopmental ly-delayed daughter and her home.
It would be primarily for her to reduce her energy costs
on into the future arrd a.Iso to do the right thing.
The addition of net metering with a PVI
159
25
o 1
2
3
4
5
6
7
I
o
10
11
t2
o 13
l4
15
16
11
18
I9
20
2T
22
23
24
CSB REPORTING
208.890.5198
FOWKES
Publ" i- c
i-t's one
system woufd add to
thing for
to myself
the va-Iue of Lhe property as we]1, so
someone to dishonor and renege on an
alone, that's one thing and I do takeagreement
offense at that, but when someone that I'm acting on
behalf of Idaho Power proposes to renege on a promise to
my daughter, t.hat's a very different thlng. I'm talking
about honor here, skating on thln 1ce, If Idaho Power
thinks I'm going to take this lightly, I am defending my
daughter,
Grandfathering J-n existing net metering
clients should be and is an obllgation in my opinion. If
net metering is not grandfathered for existing customers,
there wi.L1 no doubt be a class action ]awsuit and in my
educated opinion, it will be a slam dunk for the
plaintiffs, and the reason that I say that I'm an expert
in thi-s is because I have grandfathers who were lawyers,
but they're dead, but I do have a view into this
situation that l think is re.levant and I think it has
precedence for what is going on here right. now.
Because my daughter 1s deve.Iopmenta.I.I y
delayed, significantly delayed, because of her braln
injury near the time of birth and due to the severity of
her disabil.ities, she has qualified to rece.ive aid for
her care, 24-hour-a-day care, because she can do nothing
for herself other than laugh out loud, and so about thr:eet25
460
o t-
2
4
5
6
't
8
9
10
11
72
o 13
l4
15
l6
L1
1B
19
20
2l
22
23
24
CSB REPORT]NG
208.890. s198
FOWKES
Publ i c
a
46t
years -- excuse me, six years ago, she's on a program
through -- to receive services through the Heafth &
Weffare funded by Medicaid because of the severity of her
disabilities and at that time Lhe Department of Health &
Weffare decided they were going to change the
rei-mbursement rates for those people and suddenly, we
were given notice that rates wou.Id be going down
drastically for her.
When myseff and others questioned what was
the determination process about, what were the tools that
were being used, r,'e werae toJ-d it was none of our business
by Health & Welfare. Well, about this time some
interested parties went to the ACLU and said we can't get
any answers from the Department, so would you inquire
what's going on, so ACLU asked them what was going on and
they said it's none of your business. ft's a secret.
It's proprietary information about how we determine these
rates and .rates of reimbursement and we're not going to
teII you .
Weff. that left littfe room other than to
file suit in federal court and the Atto.rney ceneral in
the State of Idaho is quite fami-Iiar with the K.W. versus
Armstrong lawsuj-t. K.W. represents the initials of the
plaintiff who filed for a class action suit and Armstrong
is the former Director of Hea.l th & Welfare bringing a25
o 1
2
3
4
5
6
7
I
9
10
1l-
T2
a 13
L4
15
16
L1
18
L9
?0
2L
22
23
24
CSB REPORTING
208. 890.5198
EOWKI] S
Fublic
suit against the State of
and the f edera.I j uCge said
ldaho, and the
c1ear1y. this
suit $ras brought
is an unfai r
tools by whichthepractice and
you ' re ma k ing
r e imburs ement
j udge
whi ch
rates
you're unable
these budget
to divuJ-ge
reductions,cost reductions,
rate reductions, and this is
unconst i tut ional and you're
to the State of Idaho, and Srnce
not going to do this anymore
Heal-th &
okay, the
a tool by
Welfare has colne to the table and
to sit down
that time,
they sa id
and createsaid, you need
you're going to
are set and you
divulge the methodology by which
will do this at the direction of
the court.
You wiLl engage all of the stakeholders in
this process, so at that point Health & Welfare decided
to form a community process call-ed Community Now where
al,l" of the stakeholders come together, including the
Attorney General, ACLU, all affected parties, alI
affected parties, so I think that this process is
j-nstructive about what is going on here now. We have a
process where the study has supposedfy been done. It has
not trufy been revealed to the public about what is in
that study, what methods, what tools were used to create
the rate reduction proposals to the PUC, and I think this
is one of those case-s where therers precedence set for
this is not going to be a]lowed by the courts to go anya25
162
a 1
2
3
4
5
6
'1
I
9
10
11
12
o 13
l4
IJ
L6
t1
18
79
20
2t
22
23
24
o
CSB RE PORT ING
208.890.5198
EOWKES
Publ,ic
further if iL comes Lo them, so clear1y, I think that it
is a matter of honor fcr
to have their agreements
It's j ust
existing
honored.
simple integrity.
net metering customers
honor. You give your word and you follow
the Utifities Commission somehow does not
It's simple
through, and if
strike back
this attempt by ldaho Power to renege on their
corunitments to the net metering customers, then f'm sure
there wilf be a class action Iawsuit fi 1ed,
convinced that
is Idaho
a n swe red
but I am
this is sofirmly convinced
obvious that the
so I'm wanting
tools that are
and Irm very
Commissioners wiII make the corr:ect
judgment in thi-s area. I'm very confident of that, It's
so obviously decent to make that decision and j-t is
obviously fair.
I thj,nk that c]early, if there is
be methods by which reimbursements or rates are
going to
adj usted,
the tool s
thos e
it shoufd be a public process
that were used in these cfosed
tooIs, are those studies, are
and at this point
door sess ions are
to know what is
they proprietary secrets,
being hidden about the
used, what
this isn'tinevitably,
come out ls
if
that these deci s i ons
Power hiding, and
clearly, what wi 1]
were arbitrary and that
up this process.
process should be
unfair tools were util-izeci to run
I thi-nk the enr- i re25
4b3
I 1
2
3
4
5
6
1
I
9
1C
I L3
11
t1
\2
L4
15
15
1B
19
2A
21
22
23
24
CSB REPORTING
208.890.5198
EOI,IKES
Publ ic
rejected and I think that the entire process of setting
rates for af1 customers, not just net metering customers,
shoul-d be revealed in this
eve ry
too k
pe rson
place
process. I think net metering
shoul-d go forward for
Because these meetings
who wants to sign on.
doors andbehind closed
did not include stakeholders, this in
entltled behavior and it's pathetic,
one-for-one net merering cornmitment
my
and
opr-n 1on as
bel,ieve me, thi s
was a significant economic i-nvestment decision for myself
and my wife and we're sti1l paying off this foan and we
expect this to benefit the value of the home by
installing the solar array hardware, as well as the
conunitment on the part of fdaho Power to honor that
therefore, the
grandfathered,
account holder,
Power should be
honor and my
honor? Is it
meter i tse.I f shou-Id
and agreement, so,
be registered to be
number of the currentnot j ust
and with
the account
making it easier
change a reality, Idaho
for sol-ar generatlon,
is not possible for Idaho
c.L imate
not harder, and perhaps if this
Power to accomplish this, they shoufd go the way of the
BeII system.
This is a matter of honor and codes of
what is Idaho Power's code of
or is it expendable in this
Commissi-oners wil-I make the
quest.ion is
redeemab le
case, and I hope
proper declsion.
that the
Thank you very much .t 25
464
a I
2
3
4
5
6
1
B
9
10
11
72
o 13
L4
15
76
71
18
19
2A
21
22
23
24
CSB REPORTING
208.890. 5198
I,ANG
PubIlc
COMMISSIONER KJELLANDER: Thank you, and
we appreciate your testimony this eveni-ng.
(The witness left the stand. )
COMMISS]ONER KJELLANDER: The next wilness
Clay Ellestad, and why don't we take -- five minutes is
good? We'11 take a five-minute break and we'11 be back.
(Recess. )
COMMISSIONER KJELLANDER: And we'11 go
back on the record. The next name on the Iist is Clay
Elfestad from Sycamore Drive, Boise.
Vikk j- Lang.
appearrng as
was examined
VIKKI LANG.
a public wj-tness, having been duly sworn,
and testi-f ied as foll-ows:
TIIE WITNESS: My name is Vikki Lang,
3907 East Indian Trail Lane in Kuna.V-i-k-k-i L-a-n-9,
I agree with everything everybody said
I am one of the very small group that
our prope.rty, and because we have two
here tonight, but
has two meters on
mefers on our
property, Idaho Power gives us the pleasure
transferring over all of our kilowatt-hours
every March. WeI1, I just got my blII from
of
once a year,
October 18th.
My second meter has 8,737 k-ifowatt-hours sitting on ito25
4 55
o 1
2
3
4
6
't
9
10
11
t2
a 13
t4
15
t6
\1
18
19
2A
21
22
24
CSB REPORTING
208.890.5198
LANG
Pubrl ic
no$, that I can't use until March when ldaho Power grants
me the power to transfer my other meter to my first
meter, so by the time March comes around this year, I
shoul-d be over 10,000 kil-owatt-hours, so how am I going
to be treated differently when you change everything that
you want to change, because I'm not going to
twice, because
get screwed
once, I'm
meters, so
gorng
for
November 18 th
you
and
which it wif l- probably be over
knows, depending on the weather
to get screwed I have two
to have my 8,737 kj-lowatt-hours as of
to be able to have that
10, maybe
until March,
11, 000, who
and I have to pay.
. I have to pay my December bi1f. I have to
pay my January bi11, and f have to pay my Eebruary bi11,
because my credits are transferred once a year. What I
woufd like to see and Idaho Power has to.Id me more t.han
once that I'm in a very smaff group of peopfe that I
would l-ike to request that my credits since I'm in a very
small- group should be able to be transferred twice a year
so that f can use my credits, not Idaho Power.
COMMISSIONER KJELLANDER: Thank you, and
we appreciate your testimony.
(The wj-tness left the stand. )
COMMISSIONER KJELLANDER: Russell Johnson.
Russell- Johnson?
Bi 1l Dean. Bilf Dean?o 25
466
o 1
2
3
4
6
I
9
10
L1
l2
o
74
15
16
71
18
19
20
2L
2_2
24
CSB REPORTING
208.890.5198
H]LL
PubIic
Dena Dean. I bet she's with Bilt.
Ron HiiI.
appearlng as
was examined
RON HILL,
a public witness, having been duly sworn,
and testified as fo]lows:
THE WITNESS: My name is Ron Hil}, Ron,
R-o-n, HlIl, H-i-l--l, I l-ive at 10459 West Shadow Rock
Street in Boise and I am an ldaho Power customer. Irm
currently in the process of
on our house. I decided to
it's the right thing to do
havi ng
do that
solar panels instalfed
because I feel 1i ke
and eventually we're trying to
get to net zero. I encourage you guys/ you have a tough
thedecision to ma ke
right decision.
by your decision
Than ks .
and I j ust encourage
A l-ot of people a re
and we trust you to
you to ma ke
going to be affected
do the right thing.
COMMISSIONER KJEILLANDER: Thank you, and
thank you for your testimony.
(The witness -Ieft the stand, )
COMMISSIONER KJELI,ANDER: Ilana RuL,e1.
o 25
461
O I
2
3
4
5
6
1
I
9
10
11
1.2I13
).4
15
16
l1
IB
19
20
2t
22
23
24
CSB REPORT]NG
208.890.5198
RUBEL
Public
appearing as
$ras examined
ILANA RUBEL,
a public witness. having been duly sworn,
and testified as follows:
THE WITNESS: My name is Ilana RubeL.
That's I-l-a-n-a R-u-b-e-I. I l-ive at 2750 Migratory
Drive, Boise, Idaho, and I'm an ldaho Power customer. I
am also a net metering customer and so I suppose on my
own behalf, certainly, the proposed rule would certainly
harm me and make it impossible for me to realfy ever
recoup the investment I made in my own solar panels,
which were tens of thousands of doll-ars, more than I make
in an ent i re
investment,
yea r
but I'
at the legislature. but I made that
m reafly more here on behalf of my
constituents.
I'm a Iegislator. I represent District 18
in the House of Representatives and I have been contacted
by many constituents, some of whom were here tonight and
many of whom could not be here tonight, and so I wanted
to pass along what I had received by way of
communj-cations throuqh my const.ituents who are extremely
concerned and universally opposed, at .Ieast the ones who
have contacted me, extremely opposed to the proposed rate
changes.
These are folks, and I think werve gotteno25
I 1
2
3
4
5
6
1
8
9
a flavor of this tonight from the +-estimony we've heard,
these are folks who made very significant financial
sacrifices, These are not necessarily wealthy people who
have sol-ar panels on their home, These are not, you
know, limousine Liberals or whatever. These are folks
t'Iho saved and in many cases borrowed and planned and, you
know, made considerabl-e f inancia.I sacrifices for the
Iong -- what they perceived as the .Iong-term financial
security in reliance on the existing rate structure, and
often, as we heard from many people tonight/ because they
thought it was the right thing to do.
Now, it's interesting that now they're
being accused of increasing people's costs, which strikes
me as very ironic, because I think they did this for the
exact opposite reason. They did this to try to avert the
costs in many cases of climate change. Giant hurricanes
aren't free to taxpayers. Theyrre about $30 biltion a
pop. Giant forest fires, rivers drying up, droughts, a1I
of these things are not free. They're extremely costly
and these are folks that made personal financial
sacrifices and took costs on to themselves to try to
protect against some of those costs hitting society,
hitting their children, and hitting thelr grandchildren,
so, again, I think it's a bit unreasonable to say, you
know, we should stick them now because theyrre somehow
10
t
11
l2
13
14
15
16
l1
1B
t9
2A
?1
22
23
24
CSB REPORT]NG
208.890.5198
RUBEL
Publ ic
t
469
a 1
2
3
4
5
6
'7
I
9
10
l1
), I
I 13
27.
L4
15
16
71
18
L9
2A
22
23
24
CSB REPORTING
208.890.s198
RUBEL
PubI ic
imposing costs.
We had a wonderfuf piece of testimony
earlier that I think debunked that pretty powerfully that
any purported costs, if existent at all, are in the
pennies and absolutely negfigible compared to the very
large, significant financial burdens that wilf hit this
small group of people who have solar panels. The
hardship is very real and I think the fact that it's 2:00
o'clock in the morning and we still have people
testifying and a significant number of people in the
room, rea]Iy, I think, shows the depth and the intensity
of hardship that will hit this group of people who have
invested in solar paneJ.s on their home, so this proposed
structure rea1ly inflicts great harm on a small group of
people and, you know, to absofute negligible benefit to
the larger group of ratepayers, so with respect to the
people who already have panels, it just seems to make no
sense from a financial or a fairness perspective, but I
feel like if
already have
be kind of a
aII we did were just protect the people who
them in, it would stillthem and grandfather
travesty.
One of the things that I've done as a
legislator, I Lrosted the first ever climate change
hearing at the Capitol and we heard from the leading
scientists i-n the state who tafked about the cost too25
470
o 1-
2
3
4
5
6
'1
8
9
10
o
11
72
13
I1
I4
15
16
1B
19
Z\)
2l
22
23
24
CSB REPORTING
208.890.5198
from low snowpac k,
The list
escalating
of things
interest
to happen
e conomi s t
of
the
!,ie
Idaho and what is going
climate change, and one
cost is going to be
biflion to the state
expected
$r1
the people in the Idaho
highest attended event at
fiLled the Lincoln
to us as a resuft of
said that the
about $200 an acre or over
over the next decade or two,
[le heard about projected rlvers drying up
forest fires, l-oss of air
was staggering. Certainly,qual ity .
we real i ze that the
j-s in cfean energy. It was
the Capitol in eight years.
Auditorium and five overflow rooms and there was
unbelievable passion for clean energy in that room, but
moreover, I mean, the costs and the damage that we're
facing from this were astonishing and you can't open your
newspaper without seeing new horrific news every day and
new projections about what's coming our way, and so it
rea11y almost defies belief to me that we're here at a
juncture where there's serious consideration, j.n 11ght of
aII the things hitting us there's serious consideration,
of taking a move that would punish the people who did
everything in their power to try to address the probl,em,
potentiall-y put our solar industry out of business and
preclude any consumers from ever making a decision to put
solar on their homes again.
That just seems .I j-ke an astonishing step
RUBEL
Publ ic
o 25
41r
o I
2
3
4
5
6
1
I
9
10
11
L2
o 1-3
l4
15
76
t1
1B
19
20
2l
?,2
23
24
CSB REPORTING
208.890. s198
RUBEL
Publ-ic
to ta ke i-n
facing us
be viewed
light of every piece of
and I think it would be
and information
that vrould not
we don't make, so
ne ws
a move
unfortunate move
hlstory. ft woufd b,e
and is one that I hope
we 11 by
I feel that we should not only
in, but
be, you know,
grandf athe r inr; people shoufd be keeping the
a viable choice going
wc
current structure and making this
verv natura I
tor^rard.
You know, f'm sure as -- I suspect, I
don't have the number to support this. but I suspect a
very large number of peopJ-e who do this are doing it for
some combination of financial and ideological- reasons and
if Idaho Power makes good on their assurance that they
wil-l move to cl-ean power by 2045, I thlnk there v/il1 be a
not.rn
clean energy
Rlght- now
putting it
feave that
the only way
on your house
opl- i cn open to
We
energy
you know,
but right
you can
yoursel f
people.
have the
tapering. If people can get c.Iean
Power Company, they'1I do lt and,t h rough
maybe in
now it's
get
and
their
25 years there won't be such an issue.
option.
is by
I think we need to
percenL penetrat ion.
the West. This is not a critrcalfowest penetration in
financial issue facing Idaho Power or facing any
ratepayer right ncw, and I don't
time in the foreseeabLe future.
expect it will- be any
[,ie cou]d get, you know,o
4t2
o 1
2
3
4
5
6
1
8
9
10
11
L2
o 13
L4
15
76
71
18
79
20
27
?2
24
CSB REPORT]NG
208.890.sr.98
WOO DWORTH
Publ- i c
f j-ve times the adoption that we have right now and rt
would still br-: a trivial rounding error with respect to
on behalf of
I would urge
peopl e I s
the many
that we
rates, so for all these reasons and
constituents who have contacted me,
continue with the current rate structure, both
for current and future customers.
COMMISSIONER KJELLANDER: Thank you for
your testimony and we appreciate you staying this late.
THE WITNESS: Thank you for staying this
Iate.
Lisa Young.
COMMISSIONER KJELLANDER: Or this early.
(The witness left the stand. )
COMMISSIONER KJELLANDER: We'Il call next
Lisa Young?
Jake MacArthur.
Jeffrey Woodworth.
appearing as
was examined
JEEFREY WOODWORTH,
a public witness, having been duly sworn,
and testif ied as fo.I.Iows:
THE i/{ITNESS: My name is Je ffrey
2522 East- Pl-ateauWoodworth. Itrs W-o-o-d-w-o-r-t-h,
Drive, so
testimony.
thank vou for your time
ground us
today to hear thi s
initially back in theI wanted too25
413
t 1
2
3
4
5
6
1
8
9
10
11
L2I13
L4
15
16
L'1
18
19
2A
2t
22
23
24
CSB REPORT]NG
208.890. s198
WOODWORTH
Publ- ic
1ega1 standard
The burden of
evaluating
is on the
just, and
t.hi s settlement
settling parties
reasonabl-e, and the
agreement.
to show
for
that this is
proo f
fair,
Commissioners cannot simply rely on
settled to make that dec.ision, but
through the record online, therers
the fact that theyrve
actually when you look
almost no evidence
submitted by the set,tling parties that this is fair,
just, and reasonable, specifically looking at their
choice to use an avoided cost structure for determining
the rates.
While avoided cost is reasonabfe for
determining how you Ehould invest your money to get the
best gain, that doesh't mean it's suitable for a rate
structure and there'E been no evidence that I've seen
there. There's been no evidence I've seen from the
testimony, although
been able to attend,
j ustified
a greement
there's been many hours I havenrt
but that isn't an appropriate way
rates, and soappropriate methodology for
a I t houqh the Commissioners
determine, to make factual
given the Iack of evj.dence
Commi ss.ioners simply can't
determinations here, I think
on the record, the
will not be legal ly
in approving the settlement
determj-ning
do have wide Iatitude to
uncie r the ldaho APA
and must reject it.
I'd like to turn, then, briefly just tot25
414
o 1
2
3
4
5
6
1
I
9
10
11
t/,t 13
74
15
16
L1
l8
r9
2A
2l
22
23
24
o
CSB REPORTING
208.890.5198
WOO DWORTH
Publ- i c
the grandfathering issue. First,,
previously sarci that sending clear
the Commissioners have
price signals is
Commissioners choose not to
creaLes uncertainty in the future for
important. If the
grandfather, that
any
for
rate
future rate structures. As costs continue to falI
structure and the
so]ar, there may need to be future adjustments to the
of those wi1l, not be as
that they can rely on the
pricing
not fee Iclear if customers do
Commiss.ioners to honor the .investments.
regard, but it's
a fot of testimony in that
have a chilling effect. It's
We've heard
gofng
price
to
going to du l.l
Commissioners
personally,
entered into
had basically
relied on the
the signals into the future if the
approve the settlement agreement and choose
grandfather.
choose not to grandfather --
Last, I j ust
if they
not to
would ]1ke to comment, Idaho
date for grandfathering
settlement agreement and
a weird sj-tuation, because I
Power had proposed that the
should be the not.ice of the
that puts me in
a contract. made a down payment, and was --
comrnr-tted a financial -- had financially
current cost structure before the notice,
but didnrt submit the application untif
Ycu know, I worked with
afterwards.
the sofar provider
to submit the application and so choosing the date of25
415
o 1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
1l
L2
o 13
t4
15
16
l1
18
19
2A
2L
22
23
24
CSB REPORTING
208. 890.5198
S TANTON
Publ ic
notlce as the date or comparing the application date to
si.tuation where fnctice would put rne in athe date of
had already
received the
committed financially before I actually
notice of the settlement agreement,
think if we're choose a grandfathering
The date the Commissionlater wou.Id be
decision would be the p
choose Lo gc with grand
testimony I have. Than
appearing as
was examined
goinq to
better.
and so I
date,
makes a
COMMISSIONER KJELLANDER: Thank you, and
we appreciate your restimony this morning.
(The witness Ieft the stand. )
COMMISSIONER KJELLANDER: Joseph Schueler.
Tuck Milfer. Tuck Miller? I just like
saying that.
George Stanton.
eferred date, assuming that they
athering. That's alf the
you.
GEORGE STANTON,
a public witness, having been duly sworn,
and testified as follows:
o 25
THE WITNESS: My name is George Stanton.
Last name is S-t--a-n-t-o-n. I Live at 13427 ldest
Annabrook Drive, Boise, Idaho, and I am a customer of
Idaho Power. I do not have a net meter as I rent. A
41 6
a
10
11
72
a 13
74
15
16
77
18
19
2t
22
24
CSB REPORT]NG
208.890. s198
STANTON
Public
couple of things
believe have been
hasn ' t been
weI1. some have, but
said is that in my opinion,
the ma j ori ty
this is a1l- to
that I wanted to state that I don't
malntain a monopoly. The reasons that would be is cost
shifting, if you want to use that termlnology. There's
Power has been abl-e to do onseveral things that Idaho
their own that has been done by other utilities that
woufd incentivize people to Llse power when they want them
One thing they have done would be when
they took ove.r -- took control over certain AC units.
Another would h:e time-of-use. An example of that woufd
be five years ago when I started working for a sofar
company, I was tafking to the previous net meter
specialist over at the net metering department and they
said they were two years away from being able to do solar
on time-of-use. Talking to the current one, they're
sti1l two years away from being abl-e to do time-of-use in
net metering.
Erom that alone, there's been no
advancement and even an attempt to try and cost shift in
a manner that would affect everybody. In my opinion, $/e
screwed up when we put solar customers on thej-r own rate
schedule. That r^,as asking fo:: this right here, was
separating Lhem ancl making them a minority so that theya25
411
1
2
3
4
6
'1
I
9
)i
23
we canrt tefl you how
could be pre j udi.ced an
mai ntain a monoPOl y.
Who ls the current oth
need power?
A coupfe
the -less than one perce
with the laptop made a
should be published. I
you don't have a leg to
decision. It-'s just th
back to the drawing boa
One way
shopplng for a smart ph
telling you to change pf
anything. You coufd end
could cost you
you'11 find out
Also, you
planning on going up and
The uncertainty in the ma
how much
cost.
mu
the data.Prices will
during pea
$300 a no
you use a fot
data costs.Charges wou
in my opinion,
at other reason
that is
wou.Id
party that you can go
ther things would be why choose
. The gentleman that was here
eat argument. I think that one
that was true, then, obviously,
tand on and rt's really not a
way it is and they need to go
look at this case is it's fike
and Lhe data provider is
options, no more unl imited
p paying 950.00 a month or if
times on their network, it
h. Later. maybe next year,
ach text, ca1l, and megabyte of
afso depend on when you choose
nge based on hourly demand and
different usage tines wil l
onthfy base charge, it's
can't tell you that either.
et has already been created.
only to
there be?
to if you
o L
2
3
4
5
6
1
I
9
19
20
21.
22
t-0
o
11
72
13
L4
15
T6
L1
1B
23
24
o 25
CSB REPORTING
208.890. s1-98
418 S TANTON
Public
a 1
2
3
4
5
6
7
I
9
10
11
7?t l3
74
15
16
71
18
19
20
2t
22
23
24t25
CSB REPOR'I ING
208.890.5198
ERE DERI CKSON
Public
The fact that werre here today
the market, I've heard people
affected them, and you can see
out and look at people that are
have been looking at solar. It
has created uncertainty in
how that it'stestify on
it in the market if you go
actual-f y looking into or
does affect them, and
your testimony.
there again,
f actua.I based
shifting and
op.inlon, it's
have.
Erederickson.
appearang as
was examined
there are several testimonies that are
off of fdaho Power's own data about cost
how that's actually a fal1acy, and so in my
a pretty easy decision, so that's all I
COMMISSIONER KJELLANDER: Thank you for
(The witness left t.he stand. )
COMMISSIONER KJELLANDER: Patrick
PATRICK FREDERICKSON,
a public witness, having been duly sworn,
and testif i.ed as fo]Iows:
THE WITNESS: Patrick t'rederickson,
F-r-e-d-e-r-i-c-k-s-o-n, 3004 East Rosso PIace, CaldwelI,
Idaho, and, I am an ldaho
I have two twin boys that
technology. I love ldaho
Power junkie and user, because
are l-l and they love their
Power, I go to your dams
4,1 9
a 1
2
3
4
5
6
7
I
9
10
11
L2
o 13
L4
llr
16
1l
18
19
2A
2t
22
23
24I
CSB REPORTING
208. 890.5198
rRE DER I CKSON
PubIic
often. I love
eastern Idaho
against ldaho
because I went
shipped out of
the lakes. I Iove the parks. I'm from
and it's been a ton of fun. I'm not
Power. I wish they had a sofar program,
jaiI,
going on
it's a
great
have been
They
months with them. I
hooked up. It took
I'm in mid process.
up my paneJ-s. I went six
21 panels and six of them are
months to get someone from
say, oh, yeah, yours was the
do they didn't know what they
that got thrown in
I found some realIy
with
state
a guy
whi 1e
hoo ked
have
me six
Utah to f inal1y
first one done
were doing and
yelling
for a
come up and
in this way,
months and
waiting
come fix the problem.
Since then,
an issue, so I wish there
on who can seJ-f things and
maybe revoke their selling
my solar
Prius. A year later,
decided to
we're going to redo it. I went six
complaining at somebody in Utah,
and I went through two of those to
SO
Pro,
solar companies around here that that woufd not
was more kind of restrictions
when they get incarcerated.
privileges, I don't know, so
experience hasn't been that great.
what's
because
I bouoht a
very similar to
here, they
Prius, so
don't pay
doesn't --
insta]1 a tax,
paidwhen I registered, I
as much gas as you
they can't recoup
extra money because l
guys do, so my car
that cost, so guess what,
480
o 1
2
3
4
6
1
8
9
10
11
12
o 13
LA
L5
16
L1
18
19
2A
27
22
23
24
CSB REPORTING
208 ^ 890.5198
EREDERICKSON
PubI ic
to fi na IIy
miles per
everyone e.Ise gets as welf, and so they put a
pJ.ace without thinking completely through 1t
of a sudden, it took several, years to get it
correct it. I just hope that's not the case
hope that we have some visionaries.
I just see Waf*Mart al-l over.
that got put into l-aw.
the rate for thi s
It took two or three years later for that
get out of 1aw, because my car that makes 40
gallon as wel-f a-Ll the other: Honda Civics and
.Iaw in
and then all
back out and
here. I
Right, I
see Idaho Power saying they need it --
having a1I these rate adjustments, We
with sofar panels, but yet. they raised
you
have s ome
know, we're
or they
they
problerns
Iowered
haveupcomi ng year, and then I
apologi ze,
down 1ess.
We11, it
the incentives are gone
guarantee you the rates
so.la r panel companies
thing. This is what' s
ca.I led commerce. You
it's 2:00 a.m., but every year you increment
j ust so happens
from the federal
will start going
that ' s when al-1
are gone. This isn
government and I
up once the
't the new
you j ack
horrible.
there than
been going on forever. Itrs
know, you try and make your rate
cheaper to get rid of your competlt,ion and then
your rates up. I'm not
I'm from Kansas and our
sayrng
rates
their rates are
are a l-ot highero25
481
o 1
2
3
4
5
?
1
I
o
10
11
L2
o 13
l4
15
16
7't
1B
19
20
27
?1
23
24
CSB REPORT]NG
208.890. 5198
FRE DER I CKSON
Publ- ic
here and I'm thankfuf for what we have here.
I love having
I j ust want
solar panels.
to keep what we have here and
I didn't buy it because I
wanted to save money like everyone else and guess what,
my neighbors, they all have electric mowers now and
they're get t ing
it' s saturated
that we're not getting away from power,
to need a fot more of it. Why would we
are trying to help the problem?
your time and your composure. There's
that, but thank you for your time.
COMMISSIONER KJELLANDER :
we
Namey?
electric cars. You go to Cafifornia and
with electric vehicles.It seems to me
but we're going
hurt those that
My calcufations, 5,000 customers, $20,000
install is $100 miflion. If I remember right, the auto
industry when they went hurting during the -- a coupJ-e of
years ago, we baj-l-ed them out pretty hard. We're not
asking for a bailout. We have peopfe here that ]-ove this
area that donated $100 million to help the cause. They
didn't ask for anyone's help and theyrre paying for it
every month. Please donrt let us down and we
no way
appreciate
I could do
Thank you, and
appreciate your testimony.
(The witness ]eft the stand. )
COMMISSIONER KJELI,ANDER: Doug Nambe?
o 25
182
o 1
2
3
4
5
6
1
8
9
10
11
72
o 13
14
15
t6
L1
18
19
20
27
22
23
24
o
CSB REPORTING
208.890. si 98
NAMBA
Publ ic
THE AUDIENCE: Namba,
COMMISSIONER KJELLANDER: Namba, thank
you.
DOUG NAMBA,
appearing as a public witness, having been f irst- duly
sworn, testified as f ol.Lows:
THE WITNESS: My name is Doug Namba. I
five at 3414 Vista Park Drive in Caldwell, fdaho, and I
am an Idaho Power user, My last name is spelled
N-a-m-b-a, Namba. I wanted to krnd of share my
perspective as a solar dislributor. I'vc worked in the
so].ar industry for a short amount of time. Prior to
working ln the soLar industry, I commuted to Oregon as a
state worker. Irm a father of six children, so commuting
to Oregon and working in a state job reaJ-]y wasnrt an
optimaf position for me, and since adopting the so.Iar --
my new posiLron as a solar employee, I've found it to be
a very beneficial rcle for me and it's workecl out great
for me and g-iven me a 1ot more opportunity to spend time
with my famiiy.
ft's been great working in the soLar
industry and selling and I've opted to find my business
by going door to door, and I have been real1y surprised
483
I 1
2
3
4
5
6
1
I
9
that there is a large amount of people that are willing
to listen to me about solar:/ and in this last few months,
I have willingiy stopped distrib,utinq solar because of
the volatility of the presented petitlon, and because of
the way that it trivia]-izes the product, I don't have the
confidence to go out and talk to people and describe what
it is thal Irm presentj-ng.
I have had a few people still opt to have
solar panels installed after ny knowledge of the proposed
petition and t-hey stilI willingly were willing to switch
to solar given the proposed petltion, but I also have
several homes and househol-ds t-hat are wa-iting on your
ruling before they decide t.o proceed with future solar
instaLlments, but the main thing I'd like to share is
Lhat when I go door to door and I speak to people and I
propose so1ar, the biggest reservation that I find is
mostly regarding the inconsistency i.n what the future
holds for solar, and I believe t,hat if there were higher
sanctions, repercussions for ldaho Power with their
attempts at trying to adjust the current policy, there
wou.Id be a larger amount of people willing to make that
trans.ition to go to sofar if they had that -- some type
of confidence or the ability to know that there would be
a structure that would be laid out for those indiv.iduals.
I know ttrat iL's been expressed severa-I
CSB REPORTING
208.890.5198
NAMBA
Pub] ic
10
11
L2
13o
15
76
7l
74
1B
79
20
27
22
24
a 25
484
o 1
2
3
4
5
6
1
8
9
10
11
72
o 13
l4
15
16
l1
1B
19
20
21
22
23
24
CSB REPORT]NG
208. 890. s198
NAMBA
Publ- i c
times about
petit ion,
think if
it
a grandfathering proposition and j-n the
was .Iisted as an exemption, but I don't I
an exempti-orr were tc occur, it woufd have to
pro j ected
time to be
occur on a proj ected
date that
able to
date and
would give
make their
trickling
the fin i sh
it would have to be a
people an ample amount of
decisions.
Itm
households through
of being installed
of income, bringing
right now, I
wi 11 be able
bring future
the fast amount of
line of their so.Ia r
right now, and so as far as my
these homes across the finish
process
vo fume
.I ine
to stay in this
homes across the
am eager to hear if there is a ruling that I
industry and be able to
finish 1ine, because one
since this petition has been
that finish Iine, because
Power's
difference that Irve not iced
distrlbuted, even to homes with just simply appl.ications
for net meters to ldaho Power, there's not as much
excitement when they cross
about ldahothey're unsure thwart
their excitement for contribut ing
attempts to
to soclety,
ruling that
know
and so I
really hope that as you
consider suggesting that
come to a you might
in the past
that in other hearings Idaho
you know, I
Power has been urged to
produce arnple amounts of time before they
significant changes like this and that's
p ropo se
not rea I J- y the
case in this situation. but as a courtesy, I would loveo25
485
o 1
2
3
4
5
6
l
8
9
10
11
72
o 13
L4
15
16
).1
18
to
2A
2l
22
23
24
CSB REPORTING
208.890.5198
to have the abj,lity to te1l. people what
and not have such
the product that
trivial numberswetre
gorng
distributing is
through what I'm able to present, so other than
time and I really hope for a
with urgency so that I can keep
your testimony this evening.
that, I appreciate your
ruling that would come
working.
we missed? If not, then,
conclusion to the public
case, and we thank all of
COMMISSIONER KJELLANDER: Thank you for
(The wltness left the stand. )
COMMISSIONER KJELLANDER: And that's the
last name that we had on our fist. Was there anyone that
that brings at this hour the
testimony component of thi s
you for your patience and for
the
this
ve ry
and
evenrng
cordiaf
effort and time you put into creatj-ng your testimony
and for your wlllingness to operate in a
anci courteous fashion. Thank you very much
the Commission wiII be deliherating on this case and
making a ruling sometime in the near term.
There is no anticipated date at this
moment in terms of when an Order woul-d be issued, but
it's our intent to resolve the matter as soon as is
reasonable with .regards to our deliberative process, so
with that, again, we want to thank you, especially
Connie, for your diligence, and thank you aga.in for youro25
486 COLLOQUY
o 1
2
3
4
5
6
7
I
o
10
11
L2
O 13
l4
15
1.6
71
]B
19
20
2t
22
?,3
24
CSB REPORTiNG
208.890. s198
participat.ion this Tenrng.
hearing
il,le are adj ourned.
adjourned aL 2r2O a(rh m
o 25
48'l COLLOQUY
o l-
2
3
4
5
6
1
I
9
a
CSB REPORTING
208.890.5198
AUTHENTICAT]ON
This is
proceedings held
Power Company to
to certify that the forego.ing
in the matter of the petition of Idaho
benefits, and
supplied by customer
10:00 a.m. on Monday,
at 7:00 p.m. on
study the costs,
compensation of net
on-site generat j.on.
December 2nd, 20L9,
excess energy
cornmencing at
and continued
Tue s day,
at 11331
December 3rd, 2019, at the Commission's office
W. Chinden Bl-vd., Building 8, Suite 20L-A,
Boise, Idaho. is
proceedings and
Commission.
a true and correct transcript of said
thereof for the file of thetneorlginal
CON STANCE
Certi f ied
S. BUCY
Shorthand Reporter
colts7Ar'lcE s BUCY,'/OIARY PUBt,C SIAIE OF toAlt0colrMlsstoNNUMBER2995MYEXPIRES$$2024o
4BB
l0
1t
L2
13
l4
15
16
l1
18
19
20
2t
22
23
24
0 *s/a^ot- S
COLLOQUY