20180322Public Hearing Transcript Vol I.pdf

o
o
ORIGINAL CSB REPORTING
C erfifw d S h o rth and Rep o rterc
Post Office Box9774
Boise,Idatro 83707
csbreportin g@heritagewifi . com
Ph: 208-890-5198 Far: 1-888-623-6899
Reporter:
Constance Bucy,
CSR
BEEORE THE IDAHO PUBLIC UTILITIES COMMISSION
IN THE MATTER OF THE APPLICATION
OF IDAHO POWER COMPANY FOR
AUTHORTTY TO ESTABLISH NEW
SCHEDULES EOR RESIDENTIAL AND
SMALL GENERAL SERVICE CUSTOMERS
WITH ON-SITE GENERATION
CASE NO. IPC-E-l7-13
BEEORE
COMMISSIONER KRISTINE RAPER (Presiding)
COMMISSIONER PAUL KJELLANDER
COMMISSIONER ERIC ANDERSON
PLACE:Commission Hearing Room
472 WesL Washington StreetBoise, Idaho
**j
ri::':,
; -;l'"J ---:fF \--
C,)C)
c,n
c)=
l*"J
G
> .r,Jxmf\) oN)m
-, \-ErTt
t\) v
l:
DATE:March L, 2018
VOLUMEI-Pagesl-85
o
o 1
2
3
4
5
6
7
I
9
10
l-1
1,2
o 13
t4
r-5
76
t7
18
t9
20
27
22
23
24
o
CSB REPORTING
Wilder, Idaho 83676
APPEARANCES
Eor the Staff:Sean Costello
Deputy Attorney General-
472 West Washington
PO Box 83120
Boise, Idaho 83120-0074
For Idaho Power Company:Lisa D. Nordstrom
Idaho Power Companyt22L West Idaho Street
PO Box 10Boise, Idaho 83707-0070
For Idaho Conservati-on
League:
Benjanin iI. Otto
Attorney at Law
Idaho Conservation League
PO Box 844Boise, Tdaho 83701
For Auric LLC and Idaho
Clean Energy Assocj-atj-on:
Preston N. Carter
Givens Purlsey LLC
601 West Bannock Street
PO Box 2120Boise, Idaho 83701-2720
For City of Boj-se:Abigail R. Gerrmaine
Deputy City Attorney
Boise City Attorney's Office
105 North Capitol Blvd.
PO Box 500Boise, Idaho 83701-0500
For Snake River A1liance
and NW Energy Coalition:ilohn R. Hamnrond
Eisher Pusch LLP
101 South Capitol BIvd.Suite 701
PO Box 1308Boise, Idaho 83701
25
APPEARANCES
o 1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
72
o 13
t4
15
L6
t7
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
CSB REPORTING(208) 890-s198
INDEX
EXAMINATION BY PAGE
PauI Poorman
( Public)
Statement 6
GayIe Buhrer-Poorman
( Public)
Statement 10
Lisa Hecht
( PubIic)
Statement 13
Ed Wardwe]I
( Public)
Statement 19
Edwi-na A1len
( PubIic)
Statement 23
Louis Landry
( PubIic)
Statement 25
Reed Burkholder
( Public)
Statement 2'7
Chad Worth
( Public)
Statement 31
Patricia Young
( Public)
Statement 35
Ken Miller
( Public)
Statement 37
Jim Van Dinter
( PubIic)
Statement 39
Greg Ol-son
( PubIic)
Statement 43
David Becker
( Public)
Statement 45
Alan Shealy
( Public)
4BStatement
o 25
INDEX
WITNESS
o 1
2
3
4
5
6
't
8
9
10
o
11
t2
13
t4
15
1,6
17
18
19
20
2L
22
23
24
CSB REPORTING
(208 ) 890-s198
INDEX (Continued)
V'IITNESS EXAM]NATION BY PAGE
Anne Hausrath
( Public )
Statement.51
Alan Hausrath
(Publ-ic)
Statement 53
Bodhi Connelly
( Public)
Statement 57
Ed Lonsdal-e
( Public)
59
Alex McKinley
( PubIic )
Statement 62
Anne Herndon
( Pubtic)
Statement 63
Mitch Long
( PubIic)
Statement 65
Joshua Hill
( Public)
Statement 61
Jesse Simpson
( Public)
Statement 72
Kyle Enzl-er
(Publ-ic)
Statement 14
Jacob Hassard
(Publ-ic)
Statement 19
o 25
INDEX
Statement
I 1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
a
11
L2
1_3
L4
15
76
L7
18
19
20
2t
22
23
24
o
CSB REPORTING
(208 ) 890-s198
1
BOTSE, TDAHO, THURSDAY, MARCH 7, 2078, 7:00 p. M
COMMISSIONER RAPER: Good evenj-ng, Iadies
and gentlemen. Thank you for coming tonight. Today is
Thursday, March lst, 2018, and this is the time and place
set for one of two public hearj-ngs in front of the Idaho
Public Utilities Commj-ssion. The other public hearing
will be held in Pocatel-lo on Monday, March 5th. This is
Case No. IPC-E-L7-L3, further identified as 1n the matter
of the application of Idaho Power Company for authority
to establish new schedules for residential and small
general service customers with on-site generation.
I am Commissioner Kristine Raper and I
wil-l be Chairing the hearing this evening. On my left is
Commissioner Paul Kjellander and he'11- be swearing you in
as you come up to testify. On my right is Commissioner
Eric Anderson and we comprj-se the Pub1ic Utilities
Commissi-on and we are the triers of facts in this case.
I will- take public comment from customers
regarding Idaho Power's application for authority to
establish new schedules for residential and smal-l general
service customers with on-site generation. I will call-
the names of people who have signed up to testify. r
apologize if I butcher your name. Pl-ease feel free to25
COLLOQUY
o 1
2
3
4
5
6
1
8
9
10
o
11
72
13
14
15
76
L7
1B
19
20
27
22
23
24
o
CSB REPORTTNG(208) 890-sl-98
2
correct me. If yourll- come forward when I cal-l-
name, Commissioner Kjellander will- swear you
Deputy Attorney General- Sean Costello in the
here will- ask you some questions to identify
the purposes of the formal record, and then
proceed with your statement.
The Commission's decision in
l_n
your
and
front row
you can
yourself for
t.his case has
to be based upon substantial and competent evj-dence j-n
the record, which is why a1l of our proceedings are
transcribed by a court reporter and are availabl-e for
public inspection and, if necessary, are avaj-labl-e for
appeal to the Supreme Court. Connie is our court
reporter this evening and she's not afraid to ask you to
sl-ow down, so general-ly, spoken comments are easy for her
to keep up with. She's a pro and has done this for a
long time. If you're readlng from a piece of paper, you
have to make concerted efforts to stay at a pace and if
Connie shouts out at you, then if you'1J- sl-ow down, and
particuJ-ar1y for written statements if you have them, if
you're wil-ling to submit those to the Commission, we can
also post them as public comments on our website and it
just helps us to keep a clean record, so that woul-d be
great.
So a few housekeeping matters. I want to
advise you first, this is not a political or a sporting25
COLLOQUY
t
10
o
11
L2
13
t4
15
76
l1
1B
19
20
27
22
o
23
24
CSB REPORTING(208) 890-s198
3
event, so if you feel like a member of your team scores a
point, please refrain from cheering and/or clapping.
This is a courtroom and courtroom decorum is expected.
People who testify shoul-d be aiming their comments at the
triers of facts here on the Bench, not at the crowd. You
can high fj-ve one another after the hearing adjourns, and
second, we clearly have a lot of people. I have one l-ist
in front of me. I anticipate that my PIO will be
bringing me another with the number of people in the
room, so we're thril-led that therers a great number of
people here.
We love to see public participation, so I
applaud all your efforts at coming out after what was
probably a long day at work. If someone says something
that you were going to say or therers a synopsis on the
record that encapsulates your view, feel- free to sti1l
come up and say so and so who spoke dj-d it very well and
what I want to add is and that gets in the record, too.
Werve al-l spoken beforehand about t j-me for testimony on
the record. The l-ast thing that we want to do is time
everyone and say you have two-and-a-hal-f minutes. That's
this, but we
the testimony
someone else
not the way we want to run
abl-e to get through al-l- of
on that note, if you decide
synopsis, then feel free to pass or contj-nue
do want to be
this evening, so
given a good
to come up
has
25
COLLOQUY
1
2
3
4
q
6
7
8
9
o I
2
3
4
5
6
1
B
9
10
o
11
t2
13
L4
15
T6
l7
18
t9
o
20
2L
22
23
24
CSB REPORTING(208) 890-s198
4
and present your testimony for the record.
So with thatr we can take appearances of
the parties and then allow anyone who wishes to testify,
so I'm going to run through the Notice of Partj-es for the
case, and just to 1et al-1 the public in the room know,
parties to the case do not testify at the public hearing
period pursuant to Rul-e. Their opportunity is to come to
the technical hearing and present their evidence, but so
that you know who's in the room and around you, we always
take a notice of appearances of the parties, so if we can
start with the AppJ-icant.
MS. NORDSTROM: Good evening. My name is
Lisa Nordstrom and Irm counsel for Idaho Power Company.
COMMISSIONER RAPER: Thank you.
Commission Staff?
MR. COSTELLO: I'm Sean Coste1lo. Irm a
Deputy Attorney General and I represent Commj-sslon
Staff.
Arkoosh for
Irrigation
they're not
demerits or
as a matter
League?
COMMISSIONER RAPER: Thank you. Is Tom
Idahydro in the room? Eric Olsen with Idaho
Pumpers Association? And for the record,
requlred to attend, so they don't get
anything for not being here. We just keep it
of record. Matthew with Idaho Conservation
25
COLLOQUY
t 1
2
3
4
5
6
7
I
9
10
11
L2
I 13
t4
15
76
77
18
19
20
2L
22
23
24
CSB REPORTING(208) 890-s198
5
MR. OTTO: Irm Ben with fdaho Conservation
League on behalf of Matthew and myself, Benjamin Otto.
COMMISSIONER RAPER: Wel-l, Ben, you're a
witness in the case; correct?
MR. OTTO: I'm a witness and I also filed
as a representative. I know it's complicated. I'11 just
put in an appearance for the Conservation League.
COMMISSIONER RAPER: That will be great.
Thanks. Auric So1ar, Elias Bishop, Preston Carter,
Deborah Nelson?
MR. CARTER: Preston Carter and Elias
Bishop j-s here as well. He will not be testifying.
COMMISSIONER RAPER: Wel], today, that's
right.
MR. CARTER: We're here for the record,
but will not be testifying.
COMM]SSIONER RAPER:Thank you. Kelsey
Zack Waterman forNunez for Sierra Cl-ub or Tom Beach?
Sierra Club?
Abigail Gerrnaine, City of Boise?
MS. GERMAINE: Present.
Carter,
We know
COMMISSIONER RAPER:
Deborah Ne1son, fdaho Clean
Preston is here, thank you.
David Bender, Vote Solar?
Thank you. Preston
Energy Association?
I 25
COLLOQUY
t 1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
o
11
t2
13
74
15
16
17
18
1,9
t
20
2L
22
23
24
CSB REPORTING
(208 ) 890-s198
6 POORMAN
Public
John Hammond, Snake River
MR. HAMMOND: I'm here.
COMMISSIONER RAPER: I Saw
Thank you. Ryan Frazier, Brian Burnett,
with Intermountain Wind and Solar?
Al-Iiance.
you earlier.
Kirton McConkie
Okay, with that, I will call Paul Poorman
to the stand.
PAUL POORMAN,
appearing as a public witness, having been duly sworn,
was examined and testif ied as fol-l-ows:
indulgence, I'd
witness.
MR. COSTELLO: Madam Chair, with your
just like to ask a few questions of the
EXAMINATION
BY MR. COSTELLO:
o
represent the
please state
the record?
A
o
Again, my name is
Commission Staff in
Sean Costel1o. I
this mat.ter Would you
name foryour full name and spe1I your last
PauI Poorman, P-o-o-r-m-a-n.
Thank you, and what is your residence25
o 1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
o 13
L2
t4
15
76
L1
1B
79
20
2t
22
23
24
CSB REPORTING
(208 ) 890-s198
7 POORMAN
Pub11c
address?
A Itrs 5230 North Black Cat Road in
Merj-dian, Idaho.
O And are you a customer of Idaho Power?
A Yes.
O Do you have a statement you would like to
give tonight?
A Yes, please.
O Pl-ease go ahead.
A So my name is PauI Poorman and I realize
there's a l-ot of people here and so Ir11 try to be very
brief. I think that itrs pretty wel-I established
scientifically that global warming and climate change are
a real phenomena and that fossil fuel burning, such as
coa1, oil, and natural gdS, are the primary causes of
that.
Idaho Power is kind of quiet about this,
but roughly 50 percent of their generation comes from the
burning of coal and it's convenient. that a lot of it is
out of state, so we really don't see
there, and I think we al-I need to be
as clj-mate change proceeds, we have
a lot of the impacts
very concerned that
a lot of melting of
numerous hiqhice sheets, Antarctic ice
altitude glaciers, and we
in probably the next 50 to
caps,
have a
and
real
100 years,
problem coming up
let alone justo25
o 1
2
3
4
5
6
1
B
9
10
o
1t_
12
13
L4
15
L6
77
18
19
20
2L
22
23
24
CSB REPORTING(208) 890-s198
B POORMAN
Publ-ic
right now, and my summary here, and I'1I kind of go into
a l-ittle bit of detail- in a minute, but my opinion is
that ldaho Power needs to be stepping up to the p1ate,
Ieading the charge on solutions to the cllmate change 1n
rdaho, and instead of discouraging homeowners and
busj-nesses from installing rooftop solar and other
renewable solutions, Idaho Power needs to actj-vely be
seeki-ng to j-ncrease i-ntegration of IocaI solar, wind, and
hydro resources into their power generation, and so just
a f ew more detail-s.
I am speaking
resident. I've been here for
as a long-time Idaho
cl-ose to 40
Idaho Power customer and I'm also an Idaho
years. I'm an
Power
shareholder, so I have a strong interest in what happens
here, and one of the ways that Idaho Power can reduce
their coal usage, I did mention that roughly hal-f of
their generation is from coal-, is by increasing the
utilj-zation of rooftop solar, and sol-ar panel prices have
dropped. The power generation from solar has become
competitive with the burning of fossil- fuels and is an
added benefit of carbon dioxide emissions, no coal miner
deaths, and there's no transmissions losses from long
transmission lines.
The other thing that's ni-ce about living
here in fdaho is that in May through October, the peako25
o 1
2
3
4
tr
6
1
8
9
solar generation period is coincident with the time when
there's a l-ot of usage due to air conditioning and
irrigation pumping, and so with this local generation,
the power is generated locally, therers a reduced need
for the Iong, expensive, unsightly transmission lines
like Boardman to Hemingway as well as others, and so
there's some cases in our country where mi-nimizinq power
rates, the cost the customers pay, and maximizing
shareholder returns is not in the best interest of all of
us and this i-s one.
Conservation and l-ocal renewabl-e
generation needs to be encouraged, and by this two-tier
structure that Idaho Power is proposing that implies that
the net metering customers will have a higher rate,
that's not reaIly i-n the best interest of the customers,
and so my proposal is that conservation needs to be
incentivized and charging net metering customers a higher
rate for the power they consume is just not the right
idea, and so that is the right thing for our Power
Company to be doing, so I have my written comments and I
can submit them.
COMMISSIONER RAPER: You can provj-de those
to Connie. That would be terrific. Thank you, Mr.
Poorman.
THE WITNESS: Thank you.
CSB REPORTTNG(208) 890-s198
POORMAN
Public
10
o
11
T2
13
74
15
t6
l7
18
19
20
2L
22
23
24
o
9
25
t 1
Z
3
4
5
6
1
I
9
10
1_1
L2t13
l4
15
16
t1
18
19
20
27
22
23
24t
CSB REPORTING
(208 ) 890-s198
BUHRER-POORMAN
PubIic
(The witness left the stand. )
COMMfSSIONER RAPER: So f would also say
for everyone in the room that oftentimes we have someone
come up who is very articulate and can state their
opinion very well to begin with. Pl-ease don't be
intimldated by that. You have just as much right to come
up and say I oppose it because I don't want my rates to
go up or whatever, so don't let someone who is articul-ate
j-n front of you discourage you from stj-lI putting your
comments on the record.
The next witness is Gayle Buhrer-Poorman.
GAYLE BUHRER-POORMAN,
appearing as a public witness, having been first duly
sworn, testified as follows:
EXAM]NATION
BY MR. COSTELLO:
O Iriould you please state your ful-I name and
speII your last name for the record?
A My fulI name is Gayle Buhrer-Poorman,
B-u-h-r-e-r-P-o-o-r-m-a-n .
O Thank you, and what is your residence
address?25
10
o 1
2
3
4
5
6
1
I
9
10
o
11
t2
13
L4
15
t6
T7
18
19
20
2t
22
23
24
CSB REPORTING
(208 ) 890-s198
BUHRER-POORMAN
PubIic
A 5230 North Bl-ack Cat Road, Meridian,
Idaho.
O And are you a customer of Idaho Power?
A Yes.
a Do you have a statement you would like to
make?
A YeS.
O Please go ahead.
A Okay. I just want to say a couple
additional things into what my husband just stated. I
believe very much that c.l-imate change is a problem and I
see sofar photovoltaic as an opportunity to generate
electricity as a cl-eaner al-ternative to the burning of
coal, oil-, and gas. I see that photovoltaic net metering
reduces Idaho Power's generatJ-on needs at peak times when
electrici-ty is expensi-ve to producer ds in the summer
when air conditioning requj-rements are high.
Rooftop solar PV energy is used where it
is generated on the rooftops of businesses and homes,
thereby reducing transmission l-ine and distribution
losses. One of the arguments I hear often for sofar
energy is people envision a huge array of sol-ar panels
out in the desert or someplace and that's disagreeable to
them, but if we can them on our rooftops and generate
el-ectricity right therer w€ can reduce a lot of theo25
11
o 1
2
3
4
5
6
7
I
9
losses through transmission l- j-nes and avoid huge arrays.
The solar PV industry in Idaho grew 43
percent from 2015 to 20L6 and renewable energy and energy
efficiency industri-es are creating jobs at 1,2 to 20 times
that of the general economy. That to me says more good
jobs for Idahoans. I believe that this cost-benefit
analysis that fdaho Power has come up with has not put
enough emphasis on the sol-ar energy benefits, and some of
these things that f've just mentioned are the benefits
and I would like to have the Commissioners recognize
those l-eft-out val-ues.
That's all I have to say. Thank you for
this time.
COMMISSIONER RAPER: Thank you,
Ms. Poorman.
(The witness left the stand. )
COMMISSIONER RAPER: The next witness is
Li-sa Hecht.
10
11
t2
o 13
L4
15
76
77
1B
t9
20
2L
22
23
24
o
CSB REPORTING(208) 890-s198
BUHRER-POORMAN
Public
25
72
o 1
2
3
4
5
6
7
B
9
10
o
11
1,2
13
L4
t_5
76
t1
1B
L9
20
27
22
23
24
CSB REPORTING(208) 890-s198
HECHT
Public
LISA HECHT,
appearing as a public witness, having been first duly
sworn, testif ied as fol-l-ows:
EXAMINATION
BY MR. COSTELLO:
O Woul_d
record and spe11 your
you please state your name for the
last name?
A Lisa Hecht,
in electricity, "c'r as in
in trees.
Hecht, ttHtt as in house, ttett as
in house, ttttt ascool, tthtt as
O Thank you. What is your residence
addres s ?
A I live at 4920 East Sagewood Drive, Boise,
code?Idaho. Would you like the zip
O Sure.
A
o
83716.
Thank you, and are you a customer of ldaho
Power?
A
O
A
Indeed.
Pl-ease go ahead with your statement
Dear Commissioners Kjellander did r
pronounce that correctly?
COMMISSIONER KJELLANDER: No, that's cfoseo25
13
o t_
2
3
4
5
6
1
8
9
10
o
11
L2
13
L4
15
1,6
t7
t_8
19
20
2t
22
23
24
o
CSB REPORTING
(208 ) 890-s198
HECHT
Public
enough.
THE WITNESS: Correct me.
COMMISSIONER KJELLANDER: Kjellander.
THE WfTNESS: Kjellander, Raper, and
Anderson, I'm an Idaho Power customer and shareholder.
f'm a semi-retlred Hewl-ett-Packard electrical engineer
and program manager and a net meterj-ng customer since
2016 and I speak from al-l of those perspectives.
Idaho Power has asked the PUC to create a
separate rate cl-ass for net metering customers,
specifically residential and smal-l- generation, and cl-aj-ms
that these small net metering customers have a "different
use profile" from other customers so should be put in a
new separate cl-ass. There are mul-tip1e problems with
this. One, many kinds of customers have varyj-ng usage
profiJ-es, rural versus urban, second or third shift
workers versus daytime workers or retirees, and these
diverse usage patterns can actually benefit Idaho Power
by spreading out load more evenly over time and avoiding
peaks, but it is not sufficient reason to create a new
class which adds administrative costs.
Secondly, Idaho Power needs to show a
significant material- impact on util-ity rates in its
customers. I did not see evidence of an accurate
accounting of both benefits from and costs to or from25
t4
t 1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
72
I 13
t4
15
t6
l1
1B
L9
20
27
22
o
23
24
CSB REPORTING
(208 ) 890-s198
HECHT
Public
these customers to the util-ity. In fact, in reading the
entire docket, I did not see mention of any benefits
whatsoever in their filinq of net
customers are
tiny fraction
number, they would constltute only 2
the 5-10 percent threshold generally
for significant impact.
In order to argue that
of small net metering customers have
utility or other customers, positive
first necessary to establish both the
metering. These
of total- customers and a
Even at 10 times this
percent, well below
considered necessary
thls tiny fraction
any impact to the
or negatj-ve, it is
aforementioned
a tiny 0.2
of overall
percent
demand.
benefits and costs. Without an accurate agreed-upon
f inancial-accounting for
to determi-ne
both benefits and costs, it is
impossible whether any customers are paying
its fai-r share. In fact, a whole host of studj-es
indj-cate that these customers may in fact be paying more
than their fair share. I won't go into great detail, but
I'11 mention some resources and then I will- hand you some
documents that will indicate that for you, because I know
you're very busy people.
In Rooftop so7ar.' Net metering is a net
benefit, the Brookings Ins'Eitute found solar net
meterers, who are 94 percent of Idaho Power's net
meterers, were a net benefj-t to the utilities, Iowering25
15
a t_
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
o
11
t2
13
t4
15
t6
L7
1B
1,9
20
2L
22
23
24
CSB REPORTING(208) 890-s198
HECHT
Public
costs for other customers. There are studies by NREL,
the National Renewable Energy Laboratory, and SEIA, the
Solar Energy Informatj-on Association or Industry and
Association, which looked at the value of solar and those
studj-es identified at least 15 different types of value
that solar net metering provides to U.S. utilities, and
you may be aware that the Oregon PUC recently completed
one phase of a resource value of solar investigation
identifying and adopting 11 e1ements for resource value
of solar, nine of which are benefits.
Therers another study, which I | 11 hand to
you the summary of, that's by the Lawrence Berkeley
National- Labs who find that even at 10 times Idaho's
current solar net metering penetration, its effect may
actually be to l-ower retail- el-ectricity rates, not raise
them, and even at the high end of that estimate, again,
assuming 10 times current penetration, the effect on
retail electricity rates was estimated at a plus 0.2
cents per kilowatt-hour versus 1.3 to 3. 6 cents per
kilowatt for capital expense projects such as Boardman to
Hemingway.
Is this case even worthy of your time at
could accrue tothis point? Some of the benefits that
Idaho customers identified by these studies include
more expensive power sources, reductiondisplacement ofo25
L6
o 1
2
?
4
5
6
1
8
9
of aj-r and climate pollution, improving our health,
reductj-on of costs for the electric grid system, and here
I have something that might interest Commj-ssioner Raper
from the Western Electric Coordinating Council, some
power flow studies showed losses of 20 percent or more
under many conditions, especially during sunrmer peak
Ioad, that could be avoided by net metering customers
whose generation and l-oad are co-located.
AIso, it reduces the need to build more
power plants to meet demand, which is driven by peak
usage. It stabil-izes prices. There's fuel cost or
avail-ability risk, promotes energy security. It's
decentralized and it's not dependent upon the fuel chain.
It creates energy independence, especially for rural
customers, something Commj-ssioner Anderson knows about,
and it generates local jobs at 12 to 20 times the rate of
the general economy.
Simply put, to calculate what someone
owes, you need to accurately assess the val-ue you gave
them as well- as the value of what they gave you. Idaho
Power has not even begun to assess the val-ue that these
small net metering customers provide. Commissioners, you
have the duty to protect Idaho customers. As the
Lawrence Berkeley study demonstrates, you cJ-early have
the time to assess the val-ues that this tiny cl-ass of
CSB REPORTING
(208 ) 890-s1e8
HECHT
Publ-ic
10
o
11
72
13
74
15
1,6
t7
1B
79
20
2t
22
23
24
o 25
L1
o 1
2
3
4
5
6
'7
8
9
10
o
11
t2
13
L4
15
76
L7
18
19
20
2L
22
23
24
CSB REPORTING(208) 890-s198
HECHT
Publ-ic
customers provides to the utility and al-l- its customers,
especially rural customers.
Let's get a complete listing of the val-ues
provided by these customers, preferabJ-y by an independent
third party, then assign values to them in an open,
transparent process. Only then can we assess who is
benefiting whom. We should obtain them before making
rash, arbitrary decisions that could actually harm Idaho
Power's customers, not just net metering customers.
I'm sharing with you printed material from
some of the studies I mentioned this evening to save you
precious time. Thank you. Any questions?
COMMISSIONER RAPER: Thank you, Ms. Hecht.
THE WITNESS: You're welcome.
COMMISSIONER RAPER: Extra credit for
knowing your audlence.
THE WITNESS: Did my homework.
COMMISSIONER RAPER: Thank you for your
testimony.
(The witness left the stand. )
COMMISSIONER RAPER: Our next person to
testify is Ed Wardwell.
o 25
1B
o 1
2
3
4
5
6
7
I
9
10
o
11
t2
13
L4
15
76
L7
18
19
20
2t
22
23
24
o
CSB REPORTING
(208 ) 890-s198
WARDWELL
Public
ED WARDWELL,
appearing as a public witness, having been first duJ-y
sworn, testified as follows:
EXAMINATION
BY MR. COSTELLO:
o
spel1 your last
A
o
address?
A
a
A
o
statement.
A
metering customer
heard in the past
to pass on in the
the record, and I
that Dr. Morrison
and even though I
think the previous
Woul-d you please state your fu11 name and
name for the record?
Ed WardwelI, W-a-r-d-w-e-l--l-.
Thank you, and what is your residence
1,3268 Dechambeau Way, Boise, Idaho, 837L4
And are you a customer of Idaho Power?
f am a customer and a shareholder.
Thank you, and go ahead with your
al-so have solar panels and I'm a net
as well-. Some of the comments I've
are some of the things that I'm going
first four points, but they will be in
learned a lot by reading all the things
and Ms. Donohue had reported and said
think there's a minor discrepaocy, I
speaker said 0.2 percent and even in
I
25
19
I 1
2
3
4
5
6
7
I
9
the PUC press release, it mentioned 0.3 percent, and then
I did some other math from Ms. Donohue and it was 0.4,
but nonetheless, j-trs a tiny percent of al-l- of Idaho
Power's 3,400 megawatt capacity, and yet, they're making
a big deal about it might cost too much in the future
because of its growth, solar's growth.
However, the Company itself projects a
median growth of net metering to be the growth of net
metering to reach 40 megawatts by 2022, but they project
an even larger peak l-oad demand increase of 50 megawatts
each year, so according to their own projections, the
growth of sol-ar net metering wonrt even keep up with the
estimates of demand, peak demand, so any agreement to
Idaho Power's change in schedul-es wil-l- reduce incentj-ves
for solar expansion.
This is rea1Iy wrongheaded considering the
public wants more clean energy as a percentage of
capacity, not Iess. We want more clean energy because
this is the best for the health of our children and
generations to come. Sorry, I'm supposed to be talking
to you guys.
COMMISSIONER RAPER: No worry.
THE WITNESS: I got this followlng
information from the Union of Concerned Scientists who
reported that a 2073 EPA study assessed the economic
CSB REPORTING
(208 ) 890-s198
WARDWELL
Public
10
I
11
L2
13
1-4
15
L6
L7
18
L9
20
27
22
23
24I25
ZU
t 1
2
3
4
5
6
1
o
9
impacts of coal-fired power. It j-ncl-uded illnesses and
premature mortality, workdays l-ost, direct costs to the
heal-th care system associated with emissions of
particulates, nitrous oxides and sulfur dioxides. This
study found an economic costr or public health added
cost, of somewhere between, I think, 15 cents up to 50
cents, but the average was 32 cents per kil-owatt-hour to
pay for the negative health care economic impacts of
burning coal, so for every kilowatt produced by clean net
metering customers in Idaho, they shoul-d be somewhere in
that range, and the 1ow range was from California; the
high range was Maryland, nonetheless, the average being
32 cents per kil.owatt-hour, so that's really the benefit,
financial benefit, that net meteri-ng users are providing
and not getting a penny for, anC they should get that as
weIl. This is just the public health value of solar net
metering and it does not j-nclude the avoided costs of
climate change and public welfare, which are a little bit
more dif f icul-t to f igure.
Now, as grandparents, my wife and I are
concerned about the heal-th and safety of our
grandchlldren. We can only do the best we can for them
and this means reducj-ng our own personal pollution and
carbon footprints, and that's why I went with the solar
panels. We invested wtrat littl-e money we have from 31
10
t
11
72
13
t4
15
L6
L1
18
19
20
27
22
23
24
CSB REPORTTNG
(208 ) 890-s198
WARDWELL
Publ-ic
o 25
21
o 1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
Y
10
o
11
t2
13
t4
15
16
L7
18
19
20
2t
22
23
24t
CSB REPORT]NG
(208 ) 890-s198
WARDWELL
Publ-ic
years of teachi-ng 1n ldaho, which doesn't generate a lot
of money. That idea that we are somehow the rich group
and poor peopJ-e can't afford it is not true. We managed
ir.
Idaho Power wj-11- always make money.
They're a monopoly. They're always going to make money.
I'm not concerned about that as a shareholder. This is
really l-ittl-e competi-tion for them. Yes, it will grow
and it should, but itrs no threat to their bottom l-ine.
What you decide
either continue
for clean energy
Power's new schedules that
here for this will make a difference to
movlng forward with the current schedules
choi-ces or go backwards with ldaho
will reduce incentives for
cl-ean energy distributed power. Let's keep the current
rate structure to create a more l-ivabl-e world for al-I of
us.
Thank you.
COMMISSIONER RAPER: Thank you for your
testimony.
THE WITNESS: Thank you.
(The witness left the stand. )
COMMISSIONER RAPER: The next person on my
list is Edwina AII-en.
25
22
O
o
1
2
3
4
5
6
1
o
9
10
11
L2
o
13
L4
15
76
L1
18
19
20
2t
22
23
24
CSB REPORTTNG
(208 ) 890-s198
ALLEN
Public
EDWINA ALLEN,
appearing as a public witness, havj-ng been first duly
sworn, testif ied as fol-l-ows:
EXAMINATTON
BY MR. COSTELLO:
O Would you please state your full name
spell your last name for the record?
A My name is Edwina, E-d-w-i-D-dr AJ-1en,
A-1-1-e-n.
O Okay, and what is your residence
address?
21,74 East Ridgecrest Drive in Boise.
Are you a customer of Idaho Power?
I am.
Please go ahead with your statement.
of the PublicA Thank you. Members
Utilities Commj-ssion, I installed
roof. The electricity I generate
of the electricity needs of my own
A
o
A
o
solar panels on my
is used to supply some
home. Any excess j-s
used to supply electricity to my neighbors. I think al-l
Idahoans shoul-d have the right to generate their own
electricity without special targeted extra net metering
fees or charges. People with more energy efficient homes25
23
o 1
2
3
4
q.
6
7
I
9
10
o
11
t2
13
t4
15
76
!1
1B
t9
20
2t
22
23
24
CSB REPORTING
(208 ) 890-sr_98
ALLEN
Publ-lc
also have reduced their demand
not and shouldn't be charged a
shou.l-d roof top solar customers.
Idaho Power has study that
increases theshows on-site generation by some customers
cost to other customers. Analyses conducted of other
el-ectric utility companies where both benefits and the
costs have been included have in fact demonstrated that
on-site generation actually lowers energy costs for other
ratepayers.
By installing rooftop soIar, I created
jobs here in Idaho. Generating energy loca1J-y makes
Idaho more energy independent and builds Idaho's economy.
When we use electricity generated by out-of-state
coal-fired plants, we are sending our energy dollars out
of state. Eor the future of Idaho, I urge the PUC to
implement and support regulations that advance the
production of solar energy and other innovative,
distributed approaches to meeting Idaho's electricity
demand.
for el-ectricity. They are
special fee for that, nor
not done a
I urge the
deny Idaho Power Company's
customer class for rooftop
opportunity to comment.
Publlc Utilities Commission to
request to create a new
sofar. Thank you for thls
COMMISSIONER RAPER: Thank you, Ms. Allen.o 25
24
I 1
2
3
4
5
6
1
8
9
10
I
11
L2
13
L4
15
L6
71
18
19
20
2L
22
23
24
CSB REPORTING(208) 890-s198
LANDRY
Public
Louis Landry.
LOUIS LANDRY,
appearing as a public wj-tness, havlng been first duly
sworn, testified as follows:
THE WfTNESS: Louis Landry, 2LL East 33rd
Street, Garden City, 83174.
MR. COSTELLO: Thank you, and are you a
customer of Idaho Power?
THE WITNESS: I am a customer. I do have
rooftop solar and I have been a frequent attendee at IRP
meetj-ngs to try to understand the complexi-ties of
providing the power and how seriously Idaho Power takes
its 365, 2A-hour-a-day responsibilities to the public;
however, I came on something just as I was coming over
here. CNN on the 27Lh of February reported that
temperatures in the Arctic are downright summer-l-ike.
February temps soared well above freezing marking the
hottest temps recorded in the regj-on duri-ng the winter
according to the Danish Meteorological Institute.
Probably not fake news, probably news.
Calcul-ation from Cape Morris Jessup, the
world's northernmost land-based weather station, shows
that the temperatures for February are averaging 21I25
25
t 1
2
3
4
5
6
1
I
9
10
a
11
t2
13
L4
15
1,6
L7
18
L9
20
2t
22
23
24t
CSB REPORT]NG
(208 ) 890-sl_98
LANDRY
Publ-ic
degrees warmer than seasonal
alarming, I don't know what
invested in clean energy. I
self-supply without utility
choose my utility. We need
if that isn't
Power, I tve
the right to
I cannot
norms. Now,
is, so Idaho
think I have
lnterference.
the PUC to ensure that our
rates are faj-r, just, and reasonable. I know that you
have a difficult job and I know that there are strictures
on how you can apply the rul-es and regulations for a
public utility, but has Idaho Power fairly and accurately
determined the cost of grid access? Has Idaho Power
fairly and accurately determj-ned the benefits of sol-ar
generation for the grid and my community?
I think some excellent points that Lisa
mentioned and things I want to study, I donrt think they
have. I don't believe theyrve calculated a farr,
accurate cost of service study. As I said, Irve attended
a number of IRPs, and at tj-mes, I fj-nd that theref s an
agenda when Idaho Power comes in and the calcu1ations are
golng to meet that agenda. I think that the PUC and I
think an excellent Staff can hold them accountabl-e to do
the math and do the math well.
So in concluding, I wanted to note that
tomorrow is Dr. Seuss's birthday and he has spoken on
equality and justice and sometimes when I go to Idaho
Power, you can feel very sma11. ftrs a very tall25
26
a 1
2
3
4
5
5
7
8
9
10
o
11
L2
13
t4
15
t6
t7
18
19
20
2t
22
23
24
o
CSB REPORTING(208) 890-s198
BURKHOLDER
Public
building. We're lucky to
here so that
have our power, our Company
annual sessions and I do andtoyou can go
l-ast decadehave for the where we can ask the chai-rman
and CEO questions
sometimes it feel-s
and I urge everyone to
l-ike up there in the
sight of some real basics, so for Dr.
couple of quick lines on equality and
"I know up on top you
Seuss, just a
j ustice .
are seeing great
have somedown at the bottom, we, too,
then from Bartholomew
do that, but
heights, w€ l-ose
and Oobleck, "But even
you.
Thank you, Mr.
sights, but
rights, " and
kings can't rule the sky. " Thank
COMMISSIONER RAPER:
Landry. "Oh, the places you'11 go."
(The witness left the stand. )
COMMISSIONER RAPER: Reed Burkholder.
REED BURKHOLDBR,
appearing as a public witness, having been first duly
sworn, testified as follows:
EXAM]NAT]ON
BY MR. COSTELLO:
O Pl-ease state your full- name and spe11 your
last name for the record.25
21
o 1
2
3
4
5
6
7
I
9
10
o
11
t2
13
L4
15
75
t7
1B
19
20
2L
22
23
24
o
CSB REPORTING
(208 ) 890-s198
BURKHOLDER
Public
A
0
A
o
A
0
A
Read Burkholder,
And what is your
6105 Twin Springs
B-u-r-k-h-o-I-d-e-r.
residence address?
Drive, Boise, 83109.
Are you a customer of Idaho Power?
Iam
Pl-ease go ahead with your statement
Solar, solar panels on rooftops or on
grounds mounts, sunlight, clean energy, this is the path
we want to be on. Idaho Power does not want to go down
this path. They want a different path. Let me
demonstrate. In 20L2, Idaho Power filed a net metering
case, IPC-E-72-27, where they asked for an increased
servj-ce charge. They asked for $20.92 per month. They
also asked for a basic load capacity charge of $1.48 per
kil-owatt, which would add roughly $10.00 more per month.
Idaho Power's proposed path added about
$30.00 a month to sol-ar owners' bills. Now, they did
I think we can reasonably expect thatthis in 2012.
Idaho Power,
and charges.
installations
once again, wants to once again, raise fees
This would discourage future rooftop solar
and retard rather than accel-erate the
growth of sofar j-nstal-lations. This is the wrong path.
Idaho Power's path includes not only discouraging solar,
but al-so encouraging its customers to use energy from its
three coal-fired plants, Jim Bridger, Valmy, and25
2B
o 1
2
3
4
5
6
1
o
9
10
o
Lt-
72
13
t4
15
16
L7
1B
19
20
2t
22
23
24
o
CSB REPORTING
[phone]
BURKHOLDER
Public
Boardman, and its three natural gas-fj-red plants, Langley
Gulch, Bennett
leads
1oops,
1oops.
coral
rising
down this
owners a
path.
separate rate class.
encourage
request
SoIar,
Mountain, and
Idaho Power's
to melting Arctic i-ce
meJ-ting permafrost
It leads to ocean
Pl-ease, don't
Reject their
Evander Andrews.
dirty 2Oth century path
and its dangerous feedback
and its catastrophic feedback
acidification, the death of
reefs and other water creatures. It leads to
seawaters, good-bye Miami Beach.
Idaho Power to go
to make sol-ar
energy, rooftop solar is so cool-. I
sunlight,
have a 5.7
clean
kilowatt
solar array at my residence. On a sunny duy, I can plug
my electric car I can plug in my electrj-c car at home
and the next tj-me I go somewhere, I'm dri-ving on
sunlight. No gasoline and no coal--fired electricity from
Idaho Power, just solar energy.
We live in a rrery exciting time with solar
arrays, electric cars, cheaper and better batteries, but
we also l-ive in a scary tj-me with increasing greenhouse
gas concentrations, more severe storms. Can anybody
forget Hurricane Harvey that dumped 51 inches in one spot
in one storm? Whew. Larger, more intense wil-dfires and
devastating fl-oods in this context. This is not 1985
anymore, fo1ks. Idaho Powerrs rules and the rules you25
29
I 1
2
3
4
5
6
1
I
9
10
I
11
L2
13
t4
15
L6
L1
18
L9
20
27
22
23
24I
CSB REPORTING
(208 ) 890-s198
BURKHOLDER
Public
operate by are
warming world
you, the Idaho
2Ath century rules, but
and in this context, w€
we live in a
need
Public Utilities Commj-ssion,
policies from
that
encourage renewable energy deployment.
Please reject Idaho Power's request for a
new rate class occupied soIeIy by net metering customers.
Thank you.
COMMISSIONER RAPER: Thank you, Mr.
Burkhol-der. Courtney White.
MS. WHITE: Hi, I'm looking around the
room and seeing such a diverse group of people here and
I'm going to submit my comments in writing just to make
sure that we get the input from the variety of people who
want to comment.
COMMISSIONER RAPER: Thank you very much.
I look forward to reading your wrltten comments when you
submit them.
Chad Worth.
25
30
o 1
2
3
4
5
6
1
I
9
10
o
11
L2
13
1,4
15
76
t1
1B
19
20
2t
o
22
23
24
CSB REPORTING
(208 ) 890-s198
WORTH
Public
CHAD WORTH,
appearing as a public witness, having been first duly
sworn, testif ied as foll-ows:
EXAM]NATTON
BY MR. COSTELLO:
0 Pl-ease state your ful-I name and spe1l your
Iast name for the record.
A
o
A
Chad Worth.
And what is your residence address?
Oh, W-o-r-t-h,' 5981 North Brook Place,
Garden City, 8371,4.
O And are you a customer of Idaho Power?
A Yes.
O Please go ahead with your statement.
A Thank you. Commissioners, ily name is Chad
Worth. I l-ive in Garden City as I just mentioned. Irm a
volunteer on the Board of Directors of Snake River
Alliance. By day, I work as an engineer for a consulting
firm working in energy efficiency and renewable energy,
and I previ-ousIy al-so worked for a smal-1 solar instal-Ier.
The following comments I'm going to give are my own and
not those of the Alli-ance.
In 2016 and 2011, I helped initiate and25
31
a 1
2
3
4
5
6
"7
I
9
10
o
11
L2
13
t4
15
L6
t1
18
19
20
2t
))
23
24
o
CSB REPORTING
(208 ) 890-s198
WORTH
PubIic
run the Sol-arize the Valley campaign where our goal was
Iot ofto bring more
awareness and
cl-ean energy into Idaho and do
outreach. We were successful
a
and brought
over 110 fami1ies in the Treasure Va11ey from Payette to
Nampa to Boise to unj-ncorporated parts of Boise County
solar. I know firsthand that these customers and those
that did not sign up with us have concerns about the
proposal before us today and I thank you for l-istening to
these comments.
We the people grant fdaho Power in our
state and other IOUs in our state a natural monopoly in
exchange for provj-ding low-cost, reliable service, and to
Idaho Power's credit, they do a good job with this. They
are also taking steps, albeit modest, to move away from
coal towards cl-ean energy and for that they deserve some
credit; however, whether Idaho Power is good or evil or
whether their power is dJ-rty or clean is not the question
before us today. The question before the Commission
boils down to two issues: customer choice and process.
We here, dS you know, are not a
deregulated state like many other states. We don't have
a choice of who our power provider is dS, sdy, we would
in Texas. Maintaining customer choj-ce in any market
drives competition and l-eads to an overall- more efficient
marketplace. The net meterj-ng program is the only real-25
32
t 1
2
3
4
5
6
'7
8
9
10
11
l2
o 13
L4
15
16
t7
18
1,9
20
2t
22
23
24
CSB REPORTING(208) 890-s198
WORTH
Publ-ic
choice we have here. I encourage you to protect this
choi-ce.
Regarding process, the Company has asked
a new rate class for residential and smallto create
commercial
This would
charges in
technical-
customers wi-th customer-sited generation.
Ievy fees andj-nevitably make it easier
the future. While there's
to
and regulatory debate within
been significant
the docket and
we'11 hear more next week at the technical hearings, I
today in Idahothink it's worth cons j-dering where we
with distributed generation.
Accordj-ng to the Energy
Administration' s data which published
2077 data this morning, quite timely,
are
Information
brand new year-end
Idaho has about one
residential solar install-ati-on per 1,000 persons, far
less than neighboring Utah and Nevada which have about
nine residential solar installatj-ons per 1r 000 persons,
and it's worth noting that both of those states, our
southern neighbors, have j-mplemented net metering reforms
without creating a new rate class.
Idaho has a very small market for sol-ar
and under the most rosy gross scenarios, it will be a
very sma1l segment of the market as others have pointed
out. The sun is shining, but the sky is not falling. It
is unfair and unreasonable to create new rate classeso25
33
o 1
2
3
4
5
6
7
I
9
10
o
11
L2
13
L4
15
L6
l7
18
t9
20
2t
22
23
24
a
CSB REPORTING
(208 ) 890-s198
WORTH
Public
just because
that this is
l-oad shape looks
a slippery slope
this argument, you
costs more to serve
suburban customers.
class or customers
I think it's a slippery
In public
first and ask questions
not growing so fast that
the table and work in a
these concerns. What we
we might down. Usinggo
thatcould probably say it probably
rural customers than urban or
Shou]d we create a new rural rate
with e1ectric heating versus those
di-f f erent. I 'm concerned
slope.
policy it's best not to shoot
Iater. We have time. Sol-ar is
with gas heatj-ng look very different to Idaho Power. The
same could be said with those at high elevations that
don't have AC versus those of us in the val-1ey that do.
cost and benefit study before
rate policies are considered.
developed collaboratively and
quietly, I'm going to ask the
raise your hand and --
way to address
is a distributed generation
any new rate designs or
Good policy should be
informed with data, so
folks in the room to please
we can't get
collaborative
need
al-l- the facts on
COMMISSIONER KJELLANDER: No, no.
COMMISSIONER RAPER: Donrt do that.
THE WITNESS: You caught me quick, okay.
I would like to ask that the PUC perform a cost-benefit
analysis of distributed generati-on before any changes are25
34
I 1
2
3
4
5
6
1
B
9
10
1_1
L2
I 13
L4
15
16
1-7
1B
79
20
2!
22
23
24t
CSB REPORTING
(208 ) 890-s198
YOUNG
Publ-ic
made to the net metering program. Thank you, and I'Il- be
submitting further comments in writing.
COMMISSIONER RAPER: Thank you for your
testimony and I appreciate you stopping quickly.
(The witness left the stand. )
COMMISSIONER RAPER: I also appreciate
down even thougheveryone's ability
they probably knew
to keep their
the question
person on my
hands
Next
was coming.
list, Patricia something
Young.
THE WITNESS: Young.
COMMISSIONER RAPER: Thank you.
PATRICIA YOUNG,
appearing as a public witness, having been first duly
sworn/ testified as follows:
EXAMINAT]ON
BY MR. COSTELLO:
O P1ease state your fulJ. name and spell your
l-ast name for the record.
A Irm Patricia Young, 3106 North Hawthorne
Drlve, Boise 83703.
O And are you a customer of Idaho Power?25
35
I 1
2
3
4
5
6
1
I
9
A f am a customer and I have for a long time
been a donator to Idaho Power to do green power. I
wonder how that fund is used, but believing that we all
have a responsibility to care for our resources, I
invested in a solar system to heat and light my home. fn
making the decision to install a solar system, T relied
on the fair net metering program thatrs currently in
place with Idaho Power. I ask you the Commissioners to
recognize that I suspect that Irm one of many who have
installed the system relying on the current fair program,
and I think it's important that you recognize that and
that you foster responsible j-nvestments by other
homeowners to put j-n solar to make our whole environment
much more better. Thank you.
COMMISSIONER RAPER: Thank you, Ms. Young.
(The witness left the stand. )
COMMISSIONER RAPER: Mr. Ken Mill-er. Ken,
are you no longer affiliated with the Snake River
Al-l-iance?
THE WITNESS: I am not.
COMMISSIONER RAPER: So you're going to
oppose their testimony now?
MR. MILLER: But j-t's so good to see you
all-.
CSB REPORTING(208) 890-5198
10
11
t2
o 13
L4
15
76
l1
1B
19
20
2\
22
23
24
YOUNG
Public
t 25
36
t 1
2
3
4
5
6
1
8
9
10
o
t-1
1-2
13
14
15
76
77
18
t9
20
2L
22
23
24
CSB REPORTING
(208 ) 890-s198
MILLER
PubIic
KEN MILLER,
appearing as a public witness, having been first duly
sworn, testif ied as fol-Iows:
EXAMTNATION
BY MR. COSTELLO:
O Would you please state your full name and
speJ-1 your last name for the record?
A I'm Ken Mi11er, M-i-l-I-e-r.
a And your residence address?
A 3832 Sheldon Place in Boise, Idaho,
83704.
O Are you a customer of Idaho Power?
A Yes, f am.
O Please go ahead with your statement.
A Commissioners, thank you so much. It's
good to see you all. It's been awhile. I just wanted
to 1'11 be really brief, f think. I wanted to remind
the Commission of Idaho Code Section 61-315 where we talk
about the utilj-ties and whether utilities can -- welI,
I'11 just read it. It's one paragraph. "No public
utility shal-l-, dS to rates, charges, service, facilities
or in any other respect, make or grant any preference or
advantage to any corporation or person or subject anyo25
37
o I
2
3
4
5
6
1
I
9
10
11
t2
o 13
t4
15
L6
L1
1B
79
20
2t
22
23
24
o
CSB REPORTING
(208 ) 890-s198
MILLER
PubIic
as to rates,
facilities or in any other respect,
local-ities or as between classes of
corporation or person to
No publ1c utj-1ity sha11
unreasonable dif ference
customers, and I think
proposing here, and so
read Idaho Code 61-315,
any prejudice or disadvantage.
establish or maintain any
service,
between
exactly what the Company is
have a hard time when I
a hard time seeing how --
does not conflict with what
charges,
either as
service. tt
I think some of you might recall back in
2009 there was a bil-l that was introduced by, actually I
think it was, Avista that would have a1lowed l-ow
income al-lowed utilities to provide assistance to l-ow
income customers and that bill was defeated in the
Iegi-slature by one vote. Actua11y, it was by l1 to 18 in
the senate, but that bill would have allowed utillties to
provide assistance to low j-ncome res j-dents.
The reasoning was at the time, again, this
is back in 2009, Commj-ssioner, you were there, was that
utilities cou]d not offer different services within a
rate class; in other words, they could not distinguish
between let's sdy, for instance, a residential rate
class, you could not have two different rates for
that's
f just
I have
what the Company
was intended by
r_s proposr_ng
the legislature when it wrote t.hat
statute, and that concludes my testimony.25
38
o 1
2
3
4
5
6
1
I
9
10
11
!2
o 13
74
15
L6
L1
18
19
20
2L
22
23
24
CSB REPORTING(208) 890-s198
VAN DINTER
Publ-ic
Thank you.
COMMISSIONER RAPER:
Mill-er. It's nice to have you with
THE WITNESS: And it's
Thank you, Mr
US again.
good to see you
again.
(The witness left the stand. )
COMMISSIONER RAPER: This is not going to
come out right. Van Dinter?
MR. VAN DINTER: Actua11y, that's
perfectly right.
COMMISSIONER RAPER: Wel1, there you have
ir.
JIM VAN DINTER,
appearing as a public witness, having been first duly
sworn, testif ied as fol-l-ows:
BY MR. COSTELLO:
O Please state your ful-l- name and speI1 your
l-ast name for the record.
A My name is Jim Van Dinter, V-a-n
D-i-n-t-e-r. I Iive at L2088 West Tidewater Drive,
customer.Boise, Idaho, 83713. Yes, f'm an Idaho Powero25
39
EXAMINATION
I 1
2
3
4
5
6
1
8
9
10
t
11
T2
13
!4
15
16
t1
18
L9
20
27
22
23
t 24
CSB REPORTING(208) 890-s198
VAN DINTER
Publ-ic
f'm afso one of the people who has a solar system, which
I fm not able to use because of net metering. First of
a1l, I want to thank you for the opportunity to testify
before your Commissioners, and I strongly ask that you
take you listen to the recommendation of your own
Staff.
Based on the statements that
Staff have already concluded that this is a
proposal by Idaho Power. At the back of one
d like to
we have here,
questionable
of the pages
remind the
an exemptj-on from the
federal act that required them to pay for alternate
energy sources.
it says that you can't say no. I'
Commission that your predecessors
Idaho Power no when they asked for
people don't
The reali-ty of net
understand is we are
in the late '70s told
metering that most
not being paid for
of our houses. Idahoelectricity that
Power credits us
We wil-I never see
we generate out
with that
a penny
power and reduces our bil-l-.
from Idaho Power and that's a
system that you as a util-ity Conrrnissj-on approved, so the
other unique thing that I founct out is when the power
goes down, your power system does not power your house.
A11 the power goes out of your house and so you have no
backup. That system on your roof wil-l- not power your
house while the power is out.25
40
t l_
2
3
4
5
A
1
9
10
o
11
t2
13
14
15
76
l1
18
l9
20
2L
22
23
24
CSB REPORTING
(208 ) B9o-s198
VAN DINTER
Public
Irm not sure who
that's another disadvantage
look at it, in fact, since
of
approved that idea, but
net meLering, so when you
Idaho Power said no in the
Iate '70s, they have kept saying no every single time the
issue on solar power or wind power has gone on. For five
years I drove from Boise, Idaho, over to Twin and I
watched 30 some windmill-s sit not functioning because
Idaho Power refused to run lines to them. I can
understand that. It costs money to run those lines.
drive over there now and see thatTt's interesting to
wind power working.
Wetre unique in the fact and si-nce we
can't ra j-se our hands, I ' l-l- do some s j-mple math. There I s
over 100 people in this room, Commissioners, that have
put solar power on their roofs. Now, my system cost me
17,000. If you multiply that times 100, that's $1.7
mill-ion that we, the customers of Idaho, have paid to
enhance the grid of Idaho Power. If you multiply it by
1,000, and f think your folks can say that they put in
almost that many systems this past year, dt l-east the
last two years, that's $17 million that we've invested
and you know what we didn't ask you, we didn't
is what Idaho Power
ask you
did whenfor a rate
they built
increase, which
their gas plant
Think about
over towards New P1ymouth.
that. We dj-d not ask you fort25
4'I
a 1
2
3
4
5
6
7
I
9
10
o
11
t2
13
74
15
t6
t1
18
L9
20
2t
22
23
24t
CSB REPORTING(208) 890-s198
VAN DINTER
PubIic
a rate increase to pay us for that power.This is energy
energy that
discriminate
that we're generating for the system. ft's
we can't use if the system fails. Now, to
us because we are a minor smal1 group, dependingagainst
on which source you go to, between
an additionaland to ask us to pay
giving Idaho Power power is al-most
embarrassing.
0.2 and 0.4 percent
penalty because we're
ridiculous and
I mean, think
We are trying to
cleaner community
f can't bel-ieve that Idaho Power had the
before this organization and ask that. $17galJ- to come
miIli-on for
about that.
1, 000 instal-l-ations.
have a.l-I worked hard.
j ust
We
be better citizens. We want to have a
and we thought we had a backup system to our houses.
Something is not right with this picture, and so not only
would I ask that you not discriminate against us as a
separate group, I would ask that you review the l-ast few
decisions by this board and have the same courage that
the board in 1911-'18 did and say not only no to Idaho
Power, but there's a requirement for review of how
they're handlj-ng solar energy.
I thank you.
COMMISSIONER RAPER: Thank you, sj-r.
(The wj-tness l-eft the stand.)
COMMISSIONER RAPER: Greg Olson.25
42
o 1
2
3
4
5
6
7
I
9
10
o
11
t2
13
t4
15
L6
77
1B
19
20
2t
22
23
24
o
CSB REPORTING(208) 890-s198
OLSON
Public
GREG OLSON,
appearing as a public witness, havj-ng been duly sworn,
was examined and testified as follows:
EXAMINATION
BY MR. COSTELLO:
O Please state your ful-l- name and spe1l your
l-ast name for the record.
A My name is Greg O1son, O-l--s-o-n. I own a
sol-ar company here in the Va11ey and I'm going to say I
don't want this to be advertising for mer so I'm going to
say as l-ittle about my company other than what f need to
say to prove my point here. I have an invention and a
patent and now have passed UL testing to make the roof
itself out of the solar panels, but the point there is
that because of really low rates here in ldaho, I had to
come up with a product that was better than a lot of the
systems that are out there. I'm the same price or l-ess
and you could make a solar greenhouse where the
greenhouse also makes all your electricity.
You can make an awnj-ng that is out of
glass and al so makes all- the electricity for the home, so
my product potentially wil-1 make solar more functional
than it already is and at an equal or lower cost and it's25
43
o
t
1
2
3
4
5
6
1
8
9
10
11
t2
13
1,4
15
76
L1
18
19
20
27
22
23
24
O
CSB REPORTING
(208 ) 890-s198
OLSON
Publ-ic
our low rates in this state that help force that into
existence, and in other states where they have higher
rates, many people are wil-l-ing to put up with a less
functional- product where they're bolting it to their
roof.
My goal is to be producing these large
know, distributing them like swing sets,
Idaho Power throws these variables into
the customers and el-ectricians evaporate.
the variabil-ity of
net metering. They don't
a system that might change
They want to deal with
scale and, you
but every time
the system,
donrt
permitting, of the changes in
want to train their people on
or go away the next year.
Idaho Power does need to manage their
costs. I'm not tryi-ng to say they shouldnrt, but I would
like it if when they present changes to the system, they
are required to present actionable, so1id, provable data.
I want Idaho to continue to have l-ow electrical- rates.
I'm doing everything I
case. I think solar is
we hold Idaho Power to the
can to make sure that that is the
an integral part to that, and if
quality that they're capable
numbers, of proving theirtheirof doing of proving
requests, maybe even
electricity they're
val-ue, but that's a
in the future paying people for the
produclng because it is actually a
debate for a different proposal, we25
44
t 1
2
3
4
5
6
1
B
9
10
t
11
t2
13
t4
15
t6
L1
18
19
20
2t
22
23
24
CSB REPORTING
(208 ) 890-51-98
BECKER
Public
could get to the point where we're driving the economy,
bringing engineering, el-ectrical- supply jobs into this
state.
In neighboring states, this is a $100
million plus industry. We can do that here. We have the
sun for it. We have the people for it. We need to stop
Idaho Power from throwing waves into the system by trying
to change things without good evidence to do so, and I
think that you guys can hol-d them accountable for those
presentations and stop those changes until they are more
appropriate and more researched and that's my request.
COMMISSIONER RAPER: Thank you, Mr. Olson,
for your testimony.
(The witness left the stand. )
COMMISSIONER RAPER: David Becker.
DAVID BECKER,
appearing as a public witness, having been first duly
sworn, testif ied as f ol-l-ows:
EXAMINATION
BY MR. COSTELLO:
O Pl-ease state your ful-I name and speII your
last name for the record.o 25
45
o 1
2
3
4
q
6
7
I
9
A David Becker, B-e-c-k-e-r. My address is
6250 South Basalt Trail Place, Boise, Idaho, 83716.
O And are you a customer of Idaho Power?
A Yes, I am.
O Pl-ease go ahead with your statement.
A This is the first time I've testified in
front of anybody before, but I think this j-s a very
important topic that I need to adclress. I am currently
looking into investing in solar energy for my home. In
fact, I have plans on it being installed on April 9th of
this year at a price of $24,53I. I look at that as an
investment that I am making in Idaho. I look at that as
being an investment that I am making in the future of my
grandchildren. I look at that as I am contributing to
Idaho Power and their infrastructure going forward.
I do believe that their request to
increase the rate for net metering customers should be
disapproved, because I am already contributing to their
infrastructure to begin with at a very high cost to me
personally, and I believe that the Commission should
disapprove this request. I know in your documentation it
says you can't say no, but I al-so know that you've said
no in the past. I also know that if we do not take a
stand at this point in time, this is going to lead to
other type of rate differences that should not be
10
o
11
72
13
74
15
L6
L7
1B
19
20
2t
22
23
24
CSB REPORTING(208) 890-s198
BECKER
Public
o 25
46
o 1
2
3
4
5
6
7
B
9
10
11
L2
I 13
L4
15
16
77
1B
L9
20
2L
22
23
24
CSB REPORTING(208) 890-s198
BECKER
Public
all-owed.
Just as one of the persons said that
could end up with rates that are
that are completely different than
the cJ-ty or rates that are
testified earlier, you
in the mountain areas
the rates
completely
those that
that are in
different for rural customers as opposed to
live withj-n the clty or more populated areas.
Commission has the right and needs toI do believe the
take action to say no
but in
to fdaho Power. Idaho Power is a
great company,this particular case,
taklng
it is, I
intobelieve r dfl excess that they are not
consideration what we are putting forward for them, and
that's all I have to say.
COMMISSIONER RAPER: Thank you, Mr.
Becker. Well done for a first time.
THE WITNESS: Thank you.
(The witness l-eft the stand.)
COMMISSIONER RAPER: Al-an Shealy.
I 25
47
t 1
2
3
4
5
6
1
I
9
1_0
o
11
20
t2
13
t4
15
t6
71
18
1,9
2\
22
o
23
24
CSB REPORTING
(208 ) 8e0-s198
SHEALY
Public
ALAN SHEALY,
appearing as a publj-c wj-tness, having been fj-rst duly
sworn, testified as follows:
THE WITNESS: Al-an Shealy. I live at 2153
East Solitude Court in Boise, 83172.
EXAI,I]NATION
BY MR. COSTELLO:
O And are you a customer of Idaho Power?
A At present, yes.
O Go ahead with your statement.
A Thank you very much. Commj-ssioners, thank
you very much for hearing my testimony. I know from
experience itrs not easy sitting up there and taking bird
baths from people, but I also applaud aII of the fol-ks
who are comi-ng here that are very passionate about what
they believe in.
I'm going to take a very brief amount of
tj-me and try to expand as artfully as I can on some of
the testimony that was made with regard to the cost of
these systems. Ifm a finance guy. Irve been doing it
for 42 years. That's what I do for a living and f've
never made an investment without doing a very25
46
o 1
2
3
4
5
6
7
I
9
10
o
11
t2
13
74
15
16
l1
18
t9
20
21
22
23
24
o
CSB REPORTING
(208 ) 890-s198
SHEALY
Publ-ic
dispassionate cal-culation of the cost-benefit of the
investment that I'm going to make and that includes a
payback period.
Now, frankly, when I put my nine kilowatt
system in on my house, it didn't make a Lot of financial
sense. The payback period is about L5-11 years. ft's
come down quite a bit. When I first l-ooked at it a few
years dgo, it was around 55 years, so werve made
improvement in technology. Unfortunately, our leaders
have not come up with a cogent argument for pricing
carbon, putting a price on carbon, so we need the kinds
of subsidies that have made it work for me and the rest
of the people in the room.
Now, Irm specifically going to say
something about the cost, because when I put my system
in, somebody testified about the assumptions that we
make. Some of those are explicit, some are implicit, but
the assumptions that
for me included the
I made about whether this made sense
explicit nature of
contract that I entered into with ldaho
the net metering
Power. Now, if
fdaho Power and sure as the sun is going to come up
tomorrow, Idaho Power wil-l- come back to you reflexively
asking for net metering parameters to be adjusted in
their favor. As sure as that's going to happen, that's
goj-ng to -- whether this is a 1egaI taking or not, I25
49
t 1
2
3
4
q
6
7
I
9
10
I
11
t2
13
74
15
t6
17
18
19
20
2L
22
23
24
CSB REPORT]NG(208) 890-sr_98
SHEALY
Public
don't know. That will be determined in a court of 1aw,
tobut if they succeed, if you give
ro11 back some of the benefits of
them the purchase
net metering, that is
going to have a direct and immediate impact on the value
of my system and the systems that the rest of the peopJ-e
in this room have put on their homes.
What is that going to do? Wel-l-, first of
a1I, I think that's a publj-c relatj-ons disaster for Idaho
Power. No. 2, it is going to compel me to put battery
packs on my wal-l- to literally cut my cord from Idaho
Power, cease to become a customer of theirs and become my
own sel-f-sufficient off-the-grid energy provider. I
don't think thatrs sensible for the Company. I don't
think it's something that a l-ot of people in this room
would l-ook forward to doj-ng, but I wil-l be compelled to
do it.
My point is Idaho Power shoul-d be our
a great
that
and
partner. They should not be our adversary. Itrs
Company. I understand the cost-benefit analysis
they do on a daily basis, but they have a chance
there are numerous examples of utilities around
country that have embraced this technology that
up with a very compelling and creative financing
that they can do this on a large scale, bring a
people into thej-r fold so that those people who
the
have come
model so
l-ot of
otherwiseI25
50
t 1
2
3
4
5
6
1
B
9
10
I
11
!2
13
L4
15
t6
t7
1B
L9
20
27
))
23
24t
CSB REPORT]NG(208) 890-5198
HAUSRATH
Public
would not be able to benefit from it financially are thus
able to do so, and I would implore you and the Company to
work together to come up with a solution like that rather
than turn us into adversaries.
Thank you, apprecj,ate your time.
COMMISSIONER RAPER: Thank you, sir.
(The witness l-eft the stand.)
COMMISSIONER RAPER: Anne Hausrath.
ANNE HAUSRATH,
appearing as a public witness, having been first duly
sworn, testif ied as foll-ows:
EXAMINATION
BY MR. COSTELLO:
O Would you please state your fuII name and
spel1 your last name for the record?
A My name is Anne Stites Hausrath,
H-a-u-s-r-a-t-h.
O And your residence address?
A 7820 North 7th Street, Boise, 83702.
O And are you a customer of Idaho Power?
A Yes, I am.
O Please go ahead with your statement.25
51
o t_
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
L2
o 13
t4
15
t6
!7
18
19
20
2T
22
23
24
CSB REPORTING
(208 ) 890-s198
HAUSRATH
Public
A Member:s of the Commission, thank you
concerned about the fact thatmuch. I al-so am very
Power seems to be looking only at the costs of solar, not
at the benefits. Others have elaborated on this. As a
customer, ds a resident of ldaho, as a net metering
customerr ds parent and grandparent, f'm rea11y
disappointed in Idaho Power. They could be
forward-thinking. They could embrace renewabl-es. They
could join wj-th us. They could partner wi-th us, and we
could indeed create a wonderful, economically viable,
exciting future in fdaho.
Instead, I mean, we're here tonight for no
reason, rea1ly. If they were just more forward-thinking,
we coul-d al1 go through it together. The sun is goj-ng to
keep shining. Fossil fuel-s are going to continue to get
more expensive and more scarce. My husband and I have
five grandchildren. If they l-ive to be as old as their
great-grandmothers, they will see the 22nd century.
I urge you deny this request and to really
urge Idaho Power to be the kind of leaders that they
could be. They're a 1oca1 Company. We can tal-k to them,
but they aren't Ieading the way that we need to go, so I
urge you for my grandchil-dren's sake, for your
grandchildren's sake, for everybody's sake to get them on
board with renewables. Thank you.
very
Idaho
o 25
52
o 1
2
3
4
q
6
1
9
10
o
11
t2
13
L4
15
76
L7
18
L9
20
21
o
22
23
24
CSB REPORTING
(208 ) 890-s198
HAUSRATH
Public
COMMISSIONER RAPER: Thank you.
(The witness left the stand. )
COMMISSIONER RAPER: Al-an Hausrath.
ALAN HAUSRATH,
appearing as a public witness, having been fj-rst duly
sworn, test j-f ied as f ol1ows:
EXAMTNATION
BY MR. COSTELLO:
O Woul-d you please state your ful-I name and
speI1 your l-ast name for the record?
A My name is AIan Hausrath, H-a-u-s-r-a-t-h.
O And your residence address?
A 1820 North 7th Street, 83'702.
O And are you a customer of fdaho Power?
A f am.
O Please go ahead.
A Madam Chair, Members of the Commission,
thank you very much for allowing me to speak. Thank you
for holding this hearing. I speak to you as an Idaho
Power customer and ldaho Power sharehol-der who wants this
Company to succeed, a grandfather, an Idaho resident, a
current net metering customer. IrlI submit my major25
53
o testimony through the website. I just want to try to
convince you of two things tonight. The first thing is
this lssue is so smal-l- that it ought to be bel-ow your
notj-ce and you just ought to dj-smiss it.
The second thing I would like to try to
convj-nce you of is that any rate structure is going to
have some litt1e wrinkles and unfairnesses in it and
consequently, there's really no point in starting a new
rate structure for a small number of people, so on the
smallness, I poked in the numbers, did some arithmeti-c
and agree with what everybody said. At this moment in
time, about two-tenths to three-tenths of a percent of
Idaho Power customers are net metering customers. That's
tiny. That's rea1ly infinitesimal. Using the Company's
numbers, that might grow to one-and-a-quarter percent by
2022. That's still- pretty smal1.
The Berkeley study that Ms. Hecht referred
to indicates that a penetration of about five percent is
where we ought to start thinking about these thingsr so I
urge you to say 1et's not waste any more paper, let's not
waste any more time, Ietrs not waste any more evenings or
work on this. Let's just put it aside until- we get to at
least that five percent.
Looking at it another wdy, the Company
seems to believe that eacl: net metering customer is being
CSB REPORTTNG(208) 890-s198
HAUSRATH
PubIic
10
o
11
T2
1_3
!4
15
t6
L7
18
79
20
2t
22
23
24
o 25
54
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
I 1
2
3
4
5
6
7
I
9
subsi-dj-zed at about $37.00 a month. That sounds pretty
awful until you do a little bit of arithmetj-c and you
discover that means that each non-net metering customer
of the Company i-s sending a full $0.1-0 a month to the net
metering entj-re c1ass, not to an individual net metering
customer but the entire class arrd, again, using the
Company's numbers, that might grow to $0.50 by 2022.
That's trivial. Thatrs rea11y trivial. That's leaving a
few bul-bs on. That's putting a pan of food in the
refrigerator hot without cooling it. That's really
nothing. That's noise in the system, so that's my fj-rst
point. This is rea11y so smal-I. Pl-ease don't waste any
more time, paper, and energy on it.
The second issue I'd l-i-ke to talk about i-s
that in rate cfasses, w€ of necessity group people
together of unlike circumstances and some of these unlike
circumstances have already been mentioned. A rural
customer might be one of very few customers on a
mile-Iong distribution line. An urban customer might be
one of 150 customers on a miLe-l-ong distribution line.
Surely, there are differences in costs there to the
Company, but we donrt create new rate classes to iron
those costs out.
Take air conditi-oning, the major driver of
fdaho Power's peak demand seems to be air conditioning in
CSB REPORTING
(208 ) 890-s198
HAUSRATH
Public
10
t
11_
L2
13
t4
15
L6
t1
1B
L9
20
2t
22
23
24t25
55
I t_
2
3
4
tr
6
1
I
9
10
o
11
72
13
t4
15
t6
L1
1B
19
20
27
22
23
24
o
CSB REPORTING
(208 ) 890-s198
HAUSRATH
Publ-i-c
the suflrmer. We're a summer peaking area and the peak
comes when people come home and turn their air
conditioning on, so customers with air conditioning are
probably doing a l-ittl-e bit more to drive peak demand and
hence, the need for more generating facilities than
customers without air conditioning, but do we create
different cl-asses for these two different types of
customers? No, we don't. We just say that's the way it
is. I'm not
urban or air
saying these things to pit rural versus
conditioning people, who are most of us, I
non-air condj-tioning people. Irm justthink,
saying
system
there's
versus
it to point out that there are wrinkles in any
of rate design, and even if we create a new cIass,
still golng to be wrinkles. This class i-s so
small there's no reason to do it, so I urge you, please,
to just deny this request. Donrt create the new rate
class and let's look at it when it becomes timely, when
it reaches five percent or so.
Thank you very much.
COMMISSIONER RAPER: Thank you for your
testimony.
(The witness left the stand. )
COMMISSIONER RAPER: Irm going to ask
Matt, is there another sheet? Okay,' so we have about 13
people left. We'l1 break novr and try and get the25
56
a 1
2
3
4
5
6
1
I
9
10
o
11
L2
13
74
15
t6
17
18
t9
20
2L
22
23
24
CSB REPORTING(208) 890-s198
CONNELLY
Public
temperature up in the room.
historically hard to
were trying to make
take layers off, so
a ten-minute break.
Thank you.
keep at
I apologize
a moderate temperature. We
it so that people didn't come in and
we'II try and regulate that. Give us
We'11 be back on the record at 8:30.
on March l-st, 20L8. We'republic hearing
one bump in the
This room is
going to make
Bodhi Conley,
if he coul-d
of people to testify.
arrd his mother asked
(Recess. )
COMMISSIONER RAPER: Okay; so we are back
on the record for Case No. IPC-E-17-13 and we are at a
.Iist
it's past his
get moved ,p,
witness stand
bedti-me
so if Mr. Bodhi Connelly would come to the
BODHI CO\INELLY,
appearing as a public witness, havi-ng been first duly
sworn, testified as follows:
EXAMINATION
BY MR. COSTELLO:
O
spell your last
A
Would you
name for
please state your ful-l- name and
the record?
Bodhi Conne1ly, C-o-n-n-e-1-1-y.o 25
51
o
o
1
2
3
4
5
6
1
I
9
10
11
t2
13
\4
15
t6
l1
18
19
20
2L
22
23
24
CSB REPORTTNG
(208 ) 890-s198
CONNELLY
Public
o
A
Thank you. Go
Idaho is one of
ahead with your statement.
the fastest growing states
the energy needs of the
the answer, so by
average person to get
up is unacceptable.
Thank you for your
welcome.
and we need to be able to support
people and more to come. Sol-ar is
making it much, much harder for the
solar by makj-ng metering prj-ces go
Thank you.
COMMISSIONER RAPER:
testimony, Mr. Connelly.
THE WITNESS: Yourre
(The wj-tness l-eft the stand.)
COMMISSIONER RAPER: And is it al-I right
with Ms. Connelly, I presume, for his name to be a part
of our public records? Okay, thank you both for your
testimony. High five's are definitely warranted in that
regard. We have had young people testlfy in front of us
before. I donrt think we've ever had anyone as young as
Bodhi, so I applaud your ability to sit in front of a
group of adul-ts and speak your mind. I think thatrs
terrific. You have a great start for any career that you
choose.
The next person on our list to testify is
Ed Lonsdale.
I 25
5B
t 1
2
4
5
6
'1
8
9
10
o
11
1,2
13
74
15
1,6
L7
1B
79
20
2t
22
23
24
o
CSB REPORTING(208) 890-5r_98
LONSDALE
Publ-ic
ED LONSDALE,
appearj-ng as a public witness, having been first duly
sworn, testified as follows:
EXAMINAT]ON
BY MR. COSTELLO:
O Would you please state your full- name and
spel1 your l-ast name for the record?
A Ed Lonsdale, L-o-n-s-d-a-l--e.
O And your residence address?
A 2814 Weaver Circle, Boise, Idaho, 83704.
O And are you a customer of Idaho Power?
A Iam.
O P1ease go ahead.
A Thank you. T, too, would like to thank
the Public Utilities Commj-ssion for hosting this meeting.
I've long believed that many heads make for much better
decisions. I'd like to revi-sit just a wee bit of
history, if I could. During the
proposed the Pioneer power plant
Mountain Home. At the time f was
1970's, Idaho Power
to be sited near
interested in following
that Ithat process and Ird like to bring up a little
remember about it.
frr the first place, it was horrendously25
59
t 1
2
3
4
5
6
7
I
9
10
I
11_
72
t_3
74
15
16
t1
1B
L9
20
21
22
Z3
24
CSB REPORTING
(208 ) 890-s198
LONSDALE
Public
costly in money. It was to be a coal-fired plant, which
would have put out an enormous amount of pollution, be it
carbon dioxide, particulates, heat r ot what have you. It
would have required digging up immense sections of
Wyoming to get enough coal to fire it. It would have
l-eft coaf dust along the railroad route, and if you've
flown over Wyoming, you'11 actually see a long pattern
towards the east whe.re the coa.I dust has come out of the
mines. It's a very, very dirty way of doing things.
That plant woul-d have necessitated fuel
for the life of the pIant. You woul-d have had to get
power from the plant to the customers. It was denied and
subsequently they found that increased efficiency
resulting in decreased load obviated the need for this
plant all together. AIso, I might add, Idaho Power at
the end ended up with a public rel-ations bJ-ack eye that
took years to erase.
I took the liberty of going out and
at the Boardnran to Hemj-ngway transmission l-ine
and there's some mis.sing things out there. First
looking
website
off, the
record of
Bureau of Land Management has
decision for the transmission
rel-eased its
l-ine only l-ast
November 17th. The ROD allows the BLM to grant a right
of way to Idaho Power for the construction, operation,
and maintenance, ancl please remember those three words,o 25
60
t 1
2
3
4
5
6
7
I
9
10
o
11
1-2
13
14
15
L6
L7
1B
t9
20
2L
22
23
24
CSB REPORTTNG
(208 ) 890-s198
LONSDALE
Publ-ic
construction, operation, and maintenance of the B-to-H
project on BLM 1and.
Nextr w€ have the Forest Service. It will-
have to issue a separate ROD for lands maintained by the
Eorest Service based on an analysis from their
environmental impact statement. Then the project must be
considered through state permitting processes, go to the
Oregon Department of Energy, the Energy Facility Siting
plants, and the Idaho Power application wil-l- have to be
in compliance with all state Energy Facility Siting
standards. A11 of this is very expensive for Idaho
Power, spe11 that ratepayers, and itrs very expensive for
the people who have to generate all this paperwork, so
we're talking a Iot of money.
There is a way to change that scenario by
simply not going down this path anymore. If we encourage
Iocal businesses, non-profits, and homeowners to go with
PV so1ar, a1l of these costs are avoided. There is no
net cost to Idaho Power. There
We have a marvelous
is no pollution for the
fusi-on generator onlyoperation.
about 100 million mi]es from here that we can use. There
will- be no fuel ever that needs to be brought in. There
will be no permitting over various public and private
properti-es. There will be no construction, operation, or
maintenance fees for Idaho Power. If this isn't ao25
6l
a 1
2
3
4
5
6
1
B
9
10
I
11
72
13
74
1_5
76
L1
1B
1,9
ZU
27
22
23
24
CSB REPORTING
(208 ) 890-5198
McKINLEY
Publ-ic
win-win,
pass if,
Lonsdal-e.
I don't know what is, but
and only if, net metering
Thank you.
COMMISSIONER RAPER:
Alex McKinley.
this can only come to
is maintained.
Thank you, Mr.
ALEX McKINLEY,
appearing as a public wj-tness, having been first duly
sworn, testified as fol-l-ows:
EXAM]NATION
BY MR. COSTELLO:
O Pl-ease state your full name and spell your
Iast name for the record.
A Alex McKinley, M-c-K-i-n-1-e-y.
O And your resj-dence address?
A 1030 East McKinley, 83'712, Boise. Ir11 be
very brief . Irm a l-oca1 solar installer. I own a
business, and I want to make the point that just the fact
that this case exists impacts l-ocal- companies and l-ocal-
jobs. I have customers that are very interested in
proposals I have given to them, as Irm sure other solar
j-nstallers here also do, but they've said that until this
case j-s settled, they're n<.:t going to go forward with it,o 25
62
o 1
2
3
4
5
6
7
U
9
10
o
11
L2
13
74
15
L6
L7
18
19
20
2L
22
23
24
CSB REPORTING
(208 ) 890-s198
HERNDON
Publ-ic
because theytre unsure
disruption to
about what's happening, and so
the market is an issue that Ijust the
think the Commission should take into account.
In addltion, for future rate cases that
will happen, I think as many people have mentioned, it's
extremely i-mportant to balance the costs and benefits, so
until there is an actual study that takes into account
both sides of that,
change net metering.
Thank
we can't reaIIy make a decision to
you very much for your ti-me
COMMISSIONER RAPER: Thank you, Mr
McKinley.
(The witness l-eft the stand.)
COMMISSIONER RAPER: Anne Herndon.
ANNE HERNDON,
appearing as a public witness, having been first duly
sworn, testified as follows:
EXAMINATION
BY MR. COSTELLO:
o
spe1I your
A
Would you
l-ast name for
please state your full name and
the record?
Anne Herndon, H-e-r-n-d-o-n.o 25
63
o 1
2
3
4
5
6
7
U
9
O And your residence address?
A 6110 Bay Street, Boj-se, 83704.
O And are you a customer of ldaho Power?
A Yes.
a Go ahead.
A I think everyone here that previously
spoke did a fine job, so I agree with the previous
speakers who oppose Idaho Powerrs request to establish a
separate rate schedule for customers with on-site
generatj-on. Creating a separate class would only serve
to discourage the growth of clean energy. Idaho Power is
a public utility and they should foster aII efforts to
provide cIean, renewable energy.
Thank you.
COMMISSIONER RAPER: Thank you for your
testimony.
(The witness left the stand. )
COMMISSIONER RAPER: Mitch Long.
10
11
L2
o 13
t4
15
1,6
17
1B
L9
20
27
22
23
24
CSB REPORTING
(208 ) 890-5r_98
HERNDON
Publ-ic
o 25
64
I 1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
I
11
t2
13
t4
15
16
L1
18
L9
20
27
22
23
24I
CSB REPORTING
(208 ) 890-s198
LONG
Public
MITCH LONG,
appearing as a public witness, having been first duly
sworn, testified as follows:
EXAMINATION
BY MR. COSTELLO:
O Would you please state your fu11 name and
spel1 your last name for the record?
A Mitch Long,L-o-n-9.
residence address ?O What
A 2463
is your
Eastdale Drive, Boise.
O And are you a customer of Idaho Power?
A Iam.
O Please go ahead.
A WelI, thank you for letting me speak at
this very public issue. I'm goj-ng to be reiterating much
of what's already been said, but the fi-rst point is I
have no problems with paying my own way. I don't expect
that other Idaho customers shoul-d have to pay more
because of my use of electricity, but I also think that
Idaho Power's ignoring my benefits, the benefit of the
power that I provide to them, the fact that my excess
electricity goes to my neighbor and they get 100 percent
of that el-ectricity versus B0 to 85 percent they get from25
55
t 1
2
3
4
5
6
1
8
9
10
o
11
t2
13
l4
15
76
l1
1B
!9
20
2L
22
23
24
CSB REPORTING
(208 ) 890-s1-98
LONG
Publ-ic
transmission lines.
Also, my use of production of power means
that they don't have to be burning fossil fuel-s, and
there's a cost with fossil fuels that's not being
included. Right now thatrs socj-alized. Everyone pays
for the cost of air pollution. Everyone is going to pay
the cost of climate change, and those are benefits that
Idaho Power is not factoring in. I think Idaho Power's
missj-ng a great opportunity to work with their customers
who are producing the solar to encourage them to produce
more and to work wi.th them, perhaps, to f ind ways to
j-ncentivize battery backup so that we could spread our
production out through the course of the day.
Right now therers no benefit to a person
doing that and I think a lot of people would be
interested in doing that and providing that benefit to
all- ratepayers. The other I guess the other points
are ones other people have made, so I want to thank
you.
COMMISSIONER RAPER: Thank you for your
testimony.
(The witness l-eft the stand.)
COMMISSIONER RAPER: Mr. Joshua Hi11.
o 25
66
o t-
2
3
4
5
6
7
I
9
10
o
11
T2
13
t4
15
1,6
l1
18
19
20
2L
22
23
24
CSB REPORTTNG
(208 ) 890-s198
appearing as a public
JOSHUA HILL,
witness, having been first duly
sworn, testif ied as fo1lows:
EXAM]NATION
BY MR. COSTELLO:
U Would you please state your ful-l- name and
name for the record?
Joshua Seth Hil1, H-i-1-1.
And your residence address?
1625 South Latah Street, Boise, Idaho,
speI1 your l-ast
83705.
O And are you a customer of Idaho Power?
A Yes.
O Please go ahead.
A Thank you. Ird Iike to speak to everyone
here using a little bit of math and a lot of conrmon
sense. I believe Irm very lucky to be born here in the
U.S. on a farm, and I spent my entj-re life working in
sustainable energy; lumber, solar, and using a l-ot of
common sense. I think itrs requi-red to run a farm. I
would encourage all of us, and especially Idaho Power
employees, to try to use more common sense every day, so
common sense telIs us even without math, we have
A
0
A
o 25
57 HTLL
Publ-ic
o 1
2
3
4
5
6
1
8
9
10
o
11
1,2
13
74
15
T6
L1
1B
19
20
2L
22
23
24
o
CSB REPORTING
(208 ) 890-s198
H]LL
Publ-ic
rooftops. They insulate us from the e1ements, primarily
the sun.
If there's anyone here who doesn't
under a roof, I al-so
homel-essness.
sleep
to helpnonprofit
get them
work with a local-
I would love toprevent into a
home and put sol-ar on their heads. Does it make sense to
utilize as many solar rooftops as possible to generate
electrj-city from sunlight or not? That's the pertinent
question to me, and my common sense, my opinion is that
it does. Having multiple generation points for a power
grid is far superior to having large scale systems to
generate megawatts that are far away that cause
transmj-ssion costs to go up.
In my humble opinion, it would take a
character from the cl-assic film the Wizard of Oz to
believe some of the proposals made by Idaho Power against
privately-owned rooftop solar, but that would be someone
with either no courager rro heart, or no brain. I would
like to cal-1 lnto question Idaho Power's ability to
foresee sustainable growth of the-ir grid. I would also
l-ike to call into question their reasons for
recl-assification of customers with on-site generation and
net metering, and thirdly, call into question their basic
math skills, which is proven in points one and two.
A1l- of my rnath and facts that I wil-l-25
6B
t 1
2
3
4
q.
6
7
8
9
mention here come dj-rectly from Idaho Power's filings and
their information. As to point one, their ability to
foresee the sustainable growth of the grid, the Public
Utility Regulatory Policies Act, or PURPA as it's known,
is being ca11ed by Idaho Power empJ-oyees a sleeping giant
that they didn't see coming and it's costing them tons of
money as they've agreed to these contracts, some of up to
20 years, whi-ch they're now claiming are costing them, so
their idea is to punish small customer-owned generation
power and to separate thej-r rate class so that they can
change those rates at their whim.
Irve personally worked in this i-ndustry,
the solar photovoltaic industry, for a long time and have
instal-led systems for poor people, the people Iike l-ocal
teachers, farmers here in Idaho using the USDA and
federa.l- grant money to help support solar. They were
able to afford it. Because the rates have increased so
much in ldaho, they used to be some of the cheapest in
the nation, and they stil1 are, but solar has also become
more competitive and for Idaho Power not to embrace that
is, I think, a very hiqh shame. It's shameful for them
to not embrace customer-owned generation. Irve even had
one local cashier clerk cry when her system was instal-Ied
as it made a dream of hers come true.
My second point asking about the reasons
10
o
11
L2
13
l4
15
76
t7
1B
L9
20
2l
22
23
24
o
CSB REPORTING
(208 ) 890-s198
HILL
Publ-ic
25
69
t 1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
t
11
t2
13
t4
15
I
76
L7
1B
19
20
2t
22
Z5
24
CSB REPORTING
(208 ) 890-s198
HILL
Public
Idaho Power 1s requesting reclasslfication, the c1aims of
reclassifj-cation of Schedule B4 are necessary says Idaho
Power. In some of their other
state that a circuit of their
information hidden,
grid in a rural area
no issues whatsoever.solar and has
they
is
Thatover 30 percent
means that on a circuit, there's
running on 30 percent sol-ar
of people have pointed out,
percent in Idaho.
Solar rooftop
customers per year. Idaho's
with
a portion of their grid
no issues and as a lot
we are much less than one
10,000
math I
is growing by about 1,000
aboutgrid is growing by
customers per year, which, again, using some basic
]earned a long time d9o, it means that it's about
if the current rates of increase are10 percent
sustained.
sol-ar
been al-l-owed
No independent studies have been done or have
and that also seems to be shameful to me.
Idaho Power is growj-ng at a high rate and they want to be
able to increase the solar minority rates separately from
the others.
Therers not nearly enough rooftop solar in
my opinion. If there were, the increased summer rates
would disappear. If you had enough solar, there would be
no need to charge increased summer power rates because
the solar would be making too much power. Obviously,
that's not the case, which is why the summer rates25
10
t 1
2
3
4
5
6
1
I
9
10
o
11
t2
13
t4
15
76
l1
18
t9
20
2t
23
24
o
CSB REPORTING(208) 890-5198
HTLL
Public
increase in Idaho every summer.
So to the th-ird poj-nt, their basic math
skil-ls. The fixed cost currently that Idaho Power
collects from every customer on thej-r meter is $5.00 a
month, which is $60.00 a year. The number of actual
customers Idaho Power has is between 534r000 and 560r000
customers. Doing some basic math of that $60.00 a year,
their current fixed revenue is 32,040,000 and change, so
we'11 just round to 32 million. In their frequently
asked question guide ak-rout net metering, they state that
they would request $65.00 a month as their fixed cost
total-, which is $780 a year, which would result in a
yearly revenue of $41,6 mi11ion, which woul-d mean that
with no growth in the next 10 years, the fixed cost of
the existing lines is 94.168 billion, I'l-l- say that again
to enunciate it, $4.168 bil-l-ion over the next 10 years.
How much does Idaho Power spend on these
filings and needless hearings as well? If the Commissj-on
would consider granting any of what Idaho Power is asking
for here, I would ask the Comm-ission to consider making
me supreme ruler of
a new grid for less
Idaho Power's grid and I could create
than $4 biilion in the next 10 years
that would be sustainabl-e and renewable.
Thank you.
COMMISSIONBR RAPER: Thank you for your25
1L
a 1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
o
11
t2
13
L4
15
1,6
t1
18
t9
20
2L
22
23
24
a
CSB REPORTING
(208 ) 890-s198
SIMPSON
Public
testimony, Mr. Hil-1.
(The witness left the stand. )
COMMISSIONER RAPER: Jesse Simpson.
JESSE SIMPSON,
appearing as a public wj-tness, having been first duly
sworn, testif ied as fo1lows:
EK\M]NATION
BY MR. COSTELLO:
o
spe1l your l-ast
A
o
A
o
A
o
Would you
name for
Yeahr,fesse
And what is
please state your full name and
the record?
Simpson, S-i-m-p-s-o-n.
your residence address?
4704 West Grover Street,
And are you a customer of
Yes, I am.
Pl-ease go ahead.
Boise, 83705.
Idaho Power?
A Hi, I'm an employee of Altenergy
Incorporated and I moved to Idaho five years ago.
MS. NORDSTROM: Excuse me, could you
please clarify if you're testifying on behal-f of the
company or yourself individually?
THE WITNESS: Myself.25
72
o 1
2
3
4
5
6
7
I
9
10
11
72
a 13
t4
15
t6
L7
1B
L9
20
2t
22
23
24
o
CSB REPORTING
(208 ) 890-5198
SIMPSON
PubIic
MS. NORDSTROM: Okay,
THE WITNESS: I chose a path 1n
five years
and my
to support
bought a
to be able
home this
you
that
thank you.
career
solar about seven years ago and moved to Idaho
has been a great opportunity for meago. It
family to grow
my wife
house in
and and
Boi-se
into a career and f 'm now abl-e
newly-born child. I recently
Iast year. frm really exclted
I plan on putting sol-ar on myto do that and
sprrng.
customers
to study
guys to
I'm concerned that this request to put sofar
j-n a new rate cl-ass would affect my job, my
peers' jobs, and my family, because this is the career
path that I've chosen. I went into debt to go to school
renewable energy and I really woul-d like
take a deeper look into making the request
has taken, so thank you for your time.
COMMISSIONER RAPER: Thank you, Mr.
Idaho Power
S j-mpson.
(The witness left the stand. )
COMMISSIONER RAPER: Kyle Enzler. I want
to say while Mr. Enzler is coming up before a bunch of
people start leaving as the time goes orrr I really
appreciate everyone's decorum here. I apprecj-ate
everyone's testimony. Everyone has been succinct and
very clear i-n what it is that they're asking for, and I
don't think that we could ask for a more wel-I attended25
13
t 1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
t-1
o
t2
13
l4
15
76
L7
1B
79
20
21
22
23
24
o
CSB REPORTING(208) 890-s198
ENZLER
Public
and more well thought-out comments and stuff than what
we've heard tonight, so I j ust
that
this
wanted to make sure before
the trickle effect starts we reaIly appreciate
and we reaIIy look forwardhearings that go on like
to the testimony and being abl-e
the record, so thank you.
to review that later on
KYLE ENZLER,
appearing as a public witness, having been first duly
sworn, testified as follows:
EXAMINATION
BY MR. COSTELLO:
O Please state your full- name and spel1 your
l-ast name for the record.
A
a
A
Kyle
What
3001
Enzler, B-n-z-1-e-r.
is your residence address?
North Meridian Road, Meridian, Idaho,
83646.
o
A
o
A
And are you a customer of Idaho Power?
Iam
PIease go ahead.
and letting us
Thank you.
speak for a
Thank you for
few minutes.
being here today
I have a little25
74
I 1
2
3
4
5
6
1
B
9
bit simil-ar perspective, also a littl-e bit dif ferent.
f'm a builder and small developer and primarily started
in the custom home building market, the higher-end homes,
and a few years ago started getting a lot of our
higher-end customers asking for solar and high
performance building, and it was more of an emotional
purchase. It was just kind of a sexy thing for them to
have solar on a 6,000 square foot house that didn't
rea11y dramatically change their house payment or their
costs, but it was something that they had been educating
themselves about and asking for.
After spending about two to three years
building high performance homes in that higher-end
market, I started getting a l-ot of friends and family and
people that were hearing what we were doing asking us if
we could do that at a more affordable price point, and so
as we started researching that, what I found was the
reasons for wanting solar in a lower price point were
both sJ-milar, but also very different for homeowners. It
was also a very emotiona-l decision, but the decision was
based more on housing affordabi.Iity than i-t was just
having something cool and sexy on their home.
One of the things as we started
researching it, you know, one of the major challenges
that we have in Idaho is based on the Bureau of Labor
CSB REPORTING
(208 ) 890-s198
ENZLER
Public
10
t
11
t2
13
L4
15
15
77
18
19
20
21-
22
23
24t25
15
o 1
2
3
4
5
6
1
I
9
10
o
11
72
13
t4
15
L6
17
1B
t9
20
2L
22
23
24
CSB REPORTING(208) 890-s198
ENZLER
Public
statistics, we
the country.
rank as one of the lowest wage states in
The median income level-is about 51,000,
household incomewhich is almost 6,000 below the median
level in the nation,
have as builders as
so one of the challenges that we
rise and Idaho wagescostsof goods
creatingit'sdon't rise with that,
people being abl-e to afford housing,
a si-gnificant
and so about
years dgo, we set out, to see if we coul-d financially make
it pencil to create a master planned community with
soIar, and so the last two years we've invested
significantly in a small infill subdivision that is 100
percent sol-ar community, rooftop solar.
As we built a model home for that
subdivision not really knowing what the feedback was and
the demand would be, from a performance standpoint, our
HERS rating on that home largely due to solar was a 14 on
HERS rating. A typical code built home in the Valley is
about 100, so this equated to about $100, $100-120 a
month in lower overal-l- housing cost for our homeowners at
this price point, and quite a bit different from this
higher-end price point, this $L20 makes a significant
dj-fference, and any kind of change that may impact or eat
into that $100, too, will have a dramatic effect.
What that $100 approximately a month
equates to is about $20-30,000 in buying power depending
gap r-n
two
o 25
76
I 1
2
3
4
tr
6
7
8
9
on interest rates for homeowners, which is significant
given the challenges that we have in Idaho with the
median income and the rising of housing costs, so if
Idaho Power's proposal j-s adopted, not only selfishly
wi-11 it signifrcantly undermj-ne the investment that's
been put into this subdivision, but more importantfy, it
wil-l- have a potentially long-term negative effect on
housing affordability in Idaho.
With three young children, it is
signiflcant to me, so my request is to please deny Idaho
Power's proposal to separate net metering customers into
a different rate class. In my opinion, thatrs really
putting the cart before the horse. If the Commission
does determine that net metering sh.oul-d be adjusted, then
I think it's wise to not do it backwards. Let's first
have an in-depth study as to net metering to look at
everything, consider all models, especlally ones that
al-l-ow for rooftop sol-ar to remain as a viable energy
option, but more importantly, as an option to protect
housing affordability for Idaho homeowners.
If changes are determined, then it is my
opinion that a future date shoul-d be set as the deadline
to qualify for existing rates. This deadline shoul-d be
based on application submj-ssion date l-ike most util-itj-es
have done, not a system completi-on date. This is one
CSB REPORTING
(208 ) 890-s198
ENZLER
Public
10
o
11
L2
13
t4
15
16
L7
1B
L9
20
2L
22
23
24
o 25
11
a 1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
o
11
72
13
t4
15
1,6
t7
1B
19
20
2t
22
23
24
CSB REPORTING
(208 ) 890-s198
ENZLER
Public
poi-nt that hasn't been brought up, but it's significant
to new construction, because we are at this point making
a signifj-cant investment on solar on a large scale in a
master planned community with a houslng completion rate
of four to five months, so if itrs based on our
investment date, it i-s a lot sooner than the completion
date and can dramati-cal1y affect the sustainability and
costs that are involved there.
As has been stated,
Iow. Itrs better to just take
penetratj-on l-eveI is
very
than to rush into it and get it wrong l-j-ke
time to get it right
they did in
Nevada. Thank you.
COMMISSIONER RAPER: Thank you, Mr.
Enzler.
(The witness Ieft the stand. )
COMMISSIONER RAPER: Bert Bowler. No Bert
Bowler, Stone Ridge Way? Am I saying the name totally
wrong? Okay, wel1, that concludes our list. I will
provide an opportunity now for anyone who did not sign up
on the list at the back of the room, but wishes to
testify, is there anyone now you can do a show of
hands, is there anyone in the room that wishes to
testify, but did not sign up on the list? Come on up,
sir.
o 25
78
t 1
2
3
4
q
6
7
I
9
1o
o
11
I2
13
L4
15
t6
l7
18
19
20
27
22
23
24
CSB REPORTING
(208 ) 890-s198
HASSARD
Publ-ic
JACOB HASSARD,
appearing as a public witness, having been first duly
sworn, testif ied as fol1ows:
EXAMTNATION
BY MR. COSTELLO:
o
spell your
A
6698 Cherry
o
A
o
A
residence
Would you
last name for
My
Lane
and myself as
little bit of
name is Jacob Hassard. My address is
in Nampa.
And are you a customer of Idaho Power?
I am.
Pl-ease go ahead.
So f'm testifying on behalf
please state your full name and
the record?
an individual,
context based
but
of my personal
I'd l-ike to
provide a
in years past.
there, but I can
was mentioned in
on some other
things that frve seen in my work experj-ence and also in
the industry that I work, so f'm a civil- engineer in the
State of Idaho and California and I've worked on
environmental- impact statem-ents for the Bonnevil-le Power
extension line from the Soda Springs area over in Idaho
ft's been several years since f was over
tell you that the Forest Service it
the past by a gentleman who got up andI25
19
t 1
2
3
4
5
6
'1
a
9
10
t
11
L2
13
t4
15
t6
L7
1B
19
20
2L
22
23
24
CSB REPORTING
(208 ) 890-5198
HASSARD
Publ-ic
talked about that transmission 1ine.
put and I appreciate his comments.
That transmission J-ine,
environmental impact statement process
It was very wel-I
just the
of that
the Forest Service was a multi-year, hundreds
thousands of dollars process that Bonneville
through
of
Power and
Idaho Power were cooperating on to bring power into the
state, into the region. The context and the reason I
wanted to mention that, I work for a smal-l- government
agency here in the Val-tey that does transportation
services and we currently are contemplating moving to
el-ectric vehicles, and so the entirety of that situation
is as a government Commi-ssion, I appreciate your time
talking about this, you have rul-es and responsibilities
and things that you are in charge of covering, but we al-l
have an opportunity to either enter the private market or
not and as a government agency, if we were to go out and
try to find a bunch of vehicles, the cost of those
electric vehicles is directly based upon my inability to
buy power from anyone el-se except Idaho Power, and what
my request is as an individual who lives in the State of
Idaho and someone who has fam.ily members who are in the
solar industry is to allow you to treat us as an
individual- the same way that Idaho Power is treated, and
I appreciate I have some good neighbors who areI25
80
t 1
2
3
4
5
6
1
I
9
10
o
11
t2
13
t4
15
76
17
1B
19
23
24
20
2L
22
o
CSB REPORTING
(208 ) 890-s198
HASSARD
Publ-ic
employees of Idaho Power and they're great people and I
understand their need to provide safe, well-equipped,
hard-working
network, but
are treated
individuals to take care of a
I wish to be treated the same
and it's incorrect for
very vital-
way that they
to make theeveryone
have theassumption that Idaho Power doesn't ability and
that they're forced into a situation that they can't
control, and what I mean by that is Idaho Power has the
ability to buy and se1I power on the public market and as
such, I feel I should have that freedom as well-, and
right now the only option and opportunity for that is for
me to go to a renewable source.
The renewable sources right now are being
driven by costs in our market that lower the cost and
make the possibility of my agency entertaj-ning el-ectrj-c
vehicles much more possibler so if you're going to te11
me that Idaho Power has made a case that says that as a
solar homeowner, I might be damaging their network and
network provisions, that's understandable and that's
fair, but just like your Utilities Commission note says,
you can't just say no to a rate increase without a
reason, and so the reason part is what I rea11y honed in
on and I understood that and it seems to make good sense
to me that I wou1d get more details as to why I would
need a different rate increase.25
81
o I
2
3
4
5
5
7
I
9
10
t
11
72
13
t4
15
L6
I1
1B
19
20
27
22
23
24
CSB REPORTING(208) 890-sr.98
HASSARDPublic
I l-ive in my parents' home. Like a lot of
people that testified here in ldaho, we come from a
farming background. We have roots. We've been here for
a very long time.
power bill-s clear
into the home that
increased over that
I woul-d be abl-e to go back and find
back into the '90s, because we moved
my parents had, and the rates have
time signiflcantly, and while you
don't talk about the average kil-owatt-hour rate, you do
talk about summer energy charges and peak energy charges
and if you take everything together, they do have the
onto the network $37.00 per month per customer that's
I think 1t's fair for me to make thefrom Idaho Power,
case that someone who has lived in the same home
shouldn't have to pay for Bonneville Power to bring new
power in for new customers in Idaho.
chance to increase those rates, so if you're
make the case to me that my power costs in a
We all know it's not
put a new dam in. lrle al-l know it's
or reasonably feasibl-e for them to
coal-fired power pIant, but I feel
made to us as a group of homeowners
going to
certain way
not
possible for them to
not possible for them
put in a new
that the case being
and consumers is we
need to
provides
difficult
be segregated because
something different
to manage and it I s
we are a group that
that's unmanageable and
unpredictable and we doo25
B2
o 1
2
3
4
5
6
7
o
9
weird things to the network.
WeII, te1l me what those things are and
maybe Irll change the way that I put those in. Maybe
I'I1 change the way my home is wj-red. Maybe I need a
smart inverter, but I don't have that case. A11 I have
is we need to separate you and segregate you and
margj-nalize you so that we can start the process of
changing the way that you pay, which j-s understandable,
but I don't have the other side of that. If I want to
have the reason and the ability to make a choice j-n who I
buy and seII my power from, f think that's a fair case to
be made back to Idaho Power.
The l-ast thing that I wanted to say is it
seems to me a tittte bit odd why we can't get the
reasoning behind that, why they can't give me the
details, and the reason this keeps floating around in my
head is if I was to be given the rationale as to why
sol-ar is damaging to the network, then I could change
that, and then I, as a thousand of us have shown getting
together here, could come to the Commission and say, if
we put in 110 percent of our power generation needs, why
would we not deserve the free right to make up those
costs ourselves, so what happens is I think we're not
getting the informati on that we're asking for as to what
the exact detail-s are on the network, because then we
CSB REPORTING
(208 ) 890-s198
HASSARD
Publ-ic
10
o
11
L2
13
L4
15
16
L7
18
1,9
20
2t
22
23
24
o 25
B3
o 1
2
3
4
5
6
1
8
9
could use that in our own benefit to go back to the
Commission and say why don't we get a check in the mail.
If the power costs a certain amount and we
know the details of why it costs a certain amount, then
we can go back and say -- on the fair marketr we can come
to the Util-ities Commission who regulates that power and
say Irve created power and that's why I kind of feel like
maybe that might be the answer as to why I can't get the
details specifi-cally as to why I'm being segregated and I
hope that makes sense.
Thank you.
COMMISSIONER RAPER: Thank you, Mr.
Hassard. Will you spell your last name for me, please?
THE WITNESS: H-a-s-s-a-r-d.
COMMISSIONER RAPER: Thank you very much.
(The witness l-eft the stand.)
COMMISSIONER RAPER Is there anyone else in
the room that wishes to testify? Okay, weII, then this
concludes the public hearing number one in Boise on March
1st. We have a public hearing j-n Pocatello on the 5th,
which is Monday, and then a technical hearing is
scheduled with the parties for March 8th and 9th, which
j-s next Thursday and Eriday. After that, the record wil-l-
cl-ose. The Commission will then deliberate and make a
decision and issue a final Order on the case.
CSB REPORTING
(208 ) 890-s198
HASSARD
Publ-ic
10
o
11
I2
13
74
15
16
L7
18
19
20
2L
22
23
24
o 25
B4
I I
2
3
4
5
6
7
I
9
10
t
11
12
1_3
L4
15
L6
1,7
1B
19
20
27
22
I
23
24
CSB REPORTING
(208 ) 890-s198
I cannot stress how much I appreciate
with which youeveryone being here and the thoughtfulness
put together your
very much. We are
comments and your testimony. Thank you
(The
adj ourned.
Hearing adjourned at 9:10 p.m.)
25
B5 COLLOQUY
I 1
2
3
4
5
6
1
I
9
10
t
11
t2
13
t4
15
L6
77
18
79
20
21
22
23
24
a
CSB REPORT]NG(208) 890-5198
AUTHENTICATION
This is to certify that the
in the matter of the
foregoing
application of
establi-sh new
proceedings
Idaho Power
held
Company for authority to
schedules for residential and small general service
customers with on-sj-te generation, commencing at 7:00
p.m., oD Thursday, March 1-st, 2018, dt the Commission
Hearing Room, 412 West Washi-ngton Street, Boise, Idaho,
is a true and correct transcript of said proceedings and
the original thereof for the file of the Commission.
CONSTANCE
Certified
S. BUCY
Shorthand Reporter 1
25
B6 AUTHENT]CATION
s.
9t