20131129Public Hearing III.pdf

ORIGINAL
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BEEORE THE IDAHO PUBLIC UTILITIES COMMISSION
IN THE MATTER OE IDAHO POWER
COMPANY'S APPLICATION FOR A
CERTIFICATE OE PUBLIC
CONVENIENCE AND NECESSITY FOR
THE INVESTMENT IN SELECTIVE
CATALYTIC REDUCTION CONTROLS ON
J]M BRIDGER UNITS 3 AND 4.
CASE NO.
rPC-E-13-16
PUBLIC HEARING
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HEARING BEFORE
COMMISSIONER MARSHA H. SMITH (Presiding)
COMMISSIONER MACK A. REDFORD
COMMISSIONER PAUL KJELLANDER
PLACE:Commission Hearing Room
472 West Washington Street
Boise, Idaho
November 25, 2013
- Pages 362 459
DATE:
VOLUME III
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N'I POST OFFICE BOX 578
BOISE, IDAHO 83701
208-336-9208
-HEIIRIGK
COURT REPORTING
Su,rrly tl" Ana/ rn*uty, ahao lfr8
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HEDRICK COURT REPORTING
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APPEARANCES
Eor the Staff: KRISTINE A. SASSER, Esq.
Deputy Attorney General-
472 West Washington
Boise, Idaho 83702
For Idaho Power Company: LISA D. NORDSTROM, Esq.
-and-
JENNIEER REINHARDT-TESSMER, Esq.
Idaho Power Company
t22L West Idaho Street
Boise, Idaho 83702
Eor Snake River A11j-ance: McDEVITT & MfLLER, LLP
by DEAN J. MILLER, Esq.
420 West Bannock Street
Boise, Idaho 83702
83701
APPEARANCES
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Michael Heckler
(Publ-ic)
Brandie Redinger
(Publ-ic)
Shantara Sandberg
( Public)
Zack Waterman
(Publ-ic)
Norman E. Anderson
( PubIic)
Dick Mil]er
( Public)
James Blakely
( Public)
Edwina Al]en
( Public)
Richard Rusnak
( Public)
Marc Schlegel
( Public)
Lou Landry
( PubIic)
Wendy Vfilson
( Public )
Sage Premoe
( Public)
Stephen White
( Public)
Ms. Sasser
Statement
Commissi-oner Smith
Ms. Sasser
Statement
Ms. Nordstrom (Cross)
Ms. Sasser
Statement
Ms. Sasser
Statement
Ms. Sasser
Statement
Ms. Sasser
Statement
Ms. Sasser
Statement
Ms. Sasser
Statement
Ms. Sasser
Statement
Statement
Ms. Sasser
Statement
Ms. Sasser
Statement
Statement
Ms. Sasser
Statement
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39s
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WITNESS
INDEX
EXAMINATION BY PAGE
HEDRICK COURT REPORTING
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INDEX
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HEDRICK COURT REPORTING
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Steve Jakubowics
( Public)
John Weber
( Public)
AIan Hausrath
( Public)
David Monsees
(Publ-ic)
Mary McGown
( Public)
Joanie Fauci
( PubIic)
Robert Sandberg
( PubIic)
Ed Wardwell
( PubIic)
Michael Richardson
( Public)
Pam Conley
( Public)
David Ransom
( Public )
Tim Andreae
( Public )
Statement
Commi-ssioner
Ms. Sasser
Statement
Ms. Sasser
Statement
Statement
Statement
Ms. Sasser
Statement
Ms. Sasser
Statement
Statement
Statement
Statement
Ms. Sasser
Statement
Ms. Sasser
Statement
Smith
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INDEX
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HEDRICK COURT REPORTING
P. O. BOX 578, BOTSE, rD
BOISE, IDAHO, MONDAY, NOVEMBER 25, 2013, 7:00 P.M.
COMMISSIONER SMITH: Good evenj-ng, ladies and
gentlemen. This is the time and place set for a public hearing
before the Idaho Public Util-ities Commission in Case No.
IPC-E-13-16, further identified as In the matter of Idaho Power
Company's application for a certificate of public convenience
and necessity for the investment in selective catalytic
reduction controls on ..Iim Bridger Units 3 and 4.
My name j-s Marsha Smith, and f 'm the chairman of
this case and will be conducting tonlghtrs hearlng. On my
right is Commj-ssloner Mack Redford; and on my left is
Commj-ssioner Paul- Kjellander, who is also the presi-dent of the
Commission. The three of us are the Idaho Public Utility
Commission and will- be makj-ng the decision in this matter.
WerlI begin tonight with appearances for the
parties to the case, and we'11- begin with Idaho Power Company.
MS. REINHARDT-TESSMER: Thank you, Madam Chair.
,Jennifer Reinhardt-Tessmer and Lisa Nordstrom on behalf of the
Idaho Power Company.
COMMISSIONER SMITH: For the Staff.
MS. SASSER: Kristine Sasser, deputy attorney
general.
COMMISSIONER SMITH: Is anyone here representj-ng
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COLLOQUY
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HEDRTCK COURT REPORTINGP. O. BOX 518, BOTSE, rD
the Industrial Customers of ldaho Power?
How about the Idaho Conservation League?
How about Snake River AlIiance?
MR. MILLER: Good evening, Madam Chairman. My
name is Joe Miller. I'm the lawyer for the Snake Rj-ver
Al1iance. With me tonight is Liz Woodruff, the executive
director of the Alliance, and Mr. Ken MJ-1ler, the Alliance's
energy policy analyst.
COMMISSIONER SMITH: Thank your Mr. Mi11er, that
appearing to be all of the parties to this case.
Our process will be to go down the list of folks
who have signed up to testify tonight. When you your name
is cal-l-ed, you will come forward. We have a witness stand up
here, it has a mj-ke, because as you notice, we have a court
reporter.
The Commission must make decisions that are based
on the record that is made during the conduct of the
proceeding. Before tonight we had technj-cal hearings with the
parties and cross-examination of their wj-tnesses. Tonight is
an opportunity for the public to give us their views.
In order to be properly on the record, Ms. Sasser
wil-l- ask you some questions to get started. She will ask you
for your name and your mailing address and whether or not
you're a customer of Idaho Power, and then you have the
opportunity to make your statement.
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COLLOQUY
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HEDRICK COURT REPORTING
P. O. BOX 578, BOTSE, rD
HECKLER
Publ-ic
Because there are a large number of people who
wish to be heard, I would ask that you be succinct in your
comments,' and if someone else has already said exactly what
you were going to say or something you agree with entirely,
it's okay to say that "my thoughts have been expressed
previously" and not come up. So if that works for you, we can
do that too. So we'l-l try to have everybody who wishes to
speak have the opportunity to make a presentation.
Do you have anything el-se?
COMMISSIONER KJELLANDER: No.
COMMISSIONER SMITH: Okay. Al-l- right, the first
name on our list is Michael Heckl-er.
M]CHAEL HECKLER,
appearing as a public witness, being first duly sworn, was
examined and testif ied as fol-l-ows:
EXAMINATION
BY MS. SASSER:
0. Good evening. Please state your name, spelling
your l-ast name for the record.
A. My name j-s Michael- Heckler. Last name is
H-E-C-K-L-E-R.
O. And your resident address, Mr. Heckler?
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A.I'm a resident at 2245 Roanoke Drj-ve, Boise,
Idaho
o.
A.
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Are you a customer of Idaho Power?
I am.
P1ease proceed with your testimony, sir.
THE WITNESS: WelI, I appreciate your spending a
few mj-nutes listening to me. I spent 30 or 40 hours preparing
these comments; Ir11 be as succinct as I can, but it might take
just a few minutes to get through the three pages.
Many of the people who will- testify tonight I
expect wll-l- suggest that they think that you shou1d disapprove
the CPCN, that you should disapprove the request for binding
ratemaking. I too agree that the binding ratemaking would be
grossly irresponsibJ-e, but I think you should approve the CPCN
but do it with conditions. I think a conditioned CPCN is the
best way to balance two risks, those being the risks that we
keep the lights on and the risk that we create a bunch of
stranded SCR upgrade costs.
After Iistening -- listenj-ng to testimony and
reading testimony, I see two basic arguments have been
presented to you: The Company says that the SCR upgrades are
required to keep the plants runnj-ng; that in the short term,
there's no al-ternative source of power to using the power
produced at those Bridger plants; that if they don't timely
make the SCR upgrades, they're going to have to turn off the
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HEDRICK COURTP. O. BOX 578,
REPORTING
BOISE, ID
HECKLER
Publ-ic83701
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HEDRICK COURT REPORTING
P. O. BOX 578t BOTSE, rD
HECKLER
PubIic
plants. If they turn off the plantsr w€ risk turning off the
lights. They sweeten the pot by pointing out that the load
dispatch cost of the Bridger facility with a coal rock coal
mj-ne right next door to it make it so that any substitute is
going to be more expensive than Bridger the way it's run today.
The opponents will- tel-l- you that the NOx
regulation addressed by these SCRs is only a small- portion of
the required upgrades that will be needed to keep Jim Bridger
burning coal. Had -- they will also suggest that had the
Company fairly reviewed al-l- of those upgrade costs, they would
have outweighed the cheap coal- price. More importantfy, they
are 1ike1y to tel-I you that upcoming CO2 regs will force Idaho
Power and PacifiCorp to quit burning coal- at Bridger long
before those SCR costs are fu11y depreciated, the implication
being that if the CPCN is approved as submitted, we'11 al-l- be
back here some day soon fighting over who absorbs the stranded
costs.
In my past work 1ife, I've been in something like
Idaho Power's shoes. Back j-n the'90s, I adminj-stered
contracts between Boeing and the federal government. Boeing
provided different services to the government than the EPC
contract will provide to Idaho Power and PacifiCorp, but the
contracts were of similar size and risk compared to the 130
million we're tal-king about on these SCR upgrades. I can kind
of empathize with the problem that Idaho Power faces:
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HEDRICK COURT REPORTING
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HECKLER
Public
They get j-nconsistent direction from the State of
Wyomi-ng and the federal- EPA. When I was at Boeing, we got
conf l-icting direct j-on from the Army and the National Guards.
They face schedule deadl-ines. We faced schedule
deadl-ines. Some of those schedules are fixed, but the
goalposts, the requirements, keep moving.
They do face, I think, future CO2 requirements
that coul-d make the SCRs useless.
Now, I bring this compari-son up because over at
Boeing, we had a way to approach these problems. If we thought
that we were facing a potentially wasteful- expenditure where we
were going to build somethj-ng that didnrt meet the ultimate
requirementsr w€rd first try to decide when wil-l- we have a
better handle on what those regulrements look like, and then
we'd authorize our subcontractors to do only that portion of
the work that was necessary to keep on schedule until- we better
understood what the requirements were.
If we apply that kind of reasoning to this
situation, f see two fiscally-prudent conditj-ons that you might
apply and two procedurally-prudent conditions. The first would
relate to how long should you authorize Idaho Power, if you
choose to accept the CPCN application with conditions, how long
woul-d you authorize them to perform? Right now, the CO2 regs
for existing coal- plants wil-I be announced in six or seven
months: June of 2074. So if you figure we're seven months out
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HEDRICK COURT REPORTING
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HECKLER
Public
ti1l we see those fj-nal regs, it wil-I take maybe three months
to update an analysis and get an application back to you, and
it will take five months for the PUC to process that updated
applj-cation, one might authorj-ze them only to continue to
approve only the expenditures they woul-d expect to incur in the
next 15 months.
You also could limit the scope of work that they
perform. We're talking about upgrading two different units:
Three and four. And although there are some common facilities,
for the most part the upgrades are very similar. They tel-1 us
that if you approve if they can give their subcontractor the
approval to go ahead by Sunday, that is by December 1st, 25
months from the day that Unit 3 has to be online, they can make
that schedule okay. On Unit 4 they have got 12 more months,
they have got 37 months until it has to be online. One woul-d
presume that they could do the work for Unit 4 starting later
than when they have to start on Unit 3. So f might suggest
that you condition the approval in such a way that any work
done on Unit 4 would be theirs to show that those costs were
prudently incurred to maintain schedul-e to meet that unit
completion by December 31 of 201-6.
Procedurally, I woul-d ask that you direct Idaho
Power to engage with regulators. I listened with great
interest to the testimony of Mr. Hardy (sic), and what I heard
hj-m say at the technical- hearing was that the Company had
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HEDRICK COURT REPORTING
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HECKLER
PubIic
decided in 2009 that they were pretty much going to do what was
necessary to keep Bridger burning coaI, and after that, they
abdicated any responsibility. They 1et PacifiCorp handle all
of the negotiations. I wou1d hope that procedurally, you would
strongly suggest to them that they shoul-d protect usr as
ratepayers, by participating j-n all negotiations with
regulators.
In the mean time, they cou1d work to produce a
more credible coal- study. If we look at l-oads seasonally, it's
pretty clear that they need something l-ike the thousand
megawatts they're pulling out of coal- in the summer. They
don't need it in the spring and faII. The presumption that
they had to that they did an analysis where they had to
replace megawatt by megawatt dispatchabl-e resource with
dispatchabl-e resource was a f1awed assumption j-n the first
place. For the summer and winter l-oads, especially the summer
1oad, they might very effectively look at other nondispatchabl-e
alternatives.
There is in the record plenty of indication that
there are additional- efficiency opportunities. There are
suggestj-ons that we coul-d deal with some of the peak
residential summer load, which is what drives your peak system
Ioad, with dynamic pricing opportunities and that there are
suggestions that we shoul-d do solar cost sharing in a way that
would al-low solar to be brought on1ine at a lower capital cost
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HEDRICK COURT REPORT]NG
P. O. BOX 578, BOTSE, rD
HECKLER
Public
than the Company has estimated.
They shoul-d aLso do a review that would invol-ve
upgrading some units and not others, providing seasonal use of
the units, and donrt just assume that werre comparing only
continuous coal combustion on al-l- uni-ts out through 2034.
So my suggestj-on is that you approve the CPCN
with four conditions:
One, l-imit the duration: l-5 months, the number
in my mind.
Limit the scope. Focus on expendj-tures related
to Unit 3.
TeII them to go out and negotiate with the
regulators.
And improve thej-r analysis.
If you did that, this condltional CPCN wonrt
eliminate the risk of wasteful- spending, it just limits how
much waste we're exposed to.
I personally think putting an SCR on Unit 4 is
just plain stupid. The analysi-s that they did assumed that you
could buy your way out of carbon emissions, that you could pay
for it with a carbon adder. We don't know what the EPA is
golng to do under Section 119 (d) , but it's very possible that
they wil-l impose caps and one of the methods that they have
used el-sewhere and might be used here is a cap that would appfy
if you refueled the facility; in other words, you burn gas
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HEDRICK COURT REPORTING
P. O. BOX 578, BOTSE, rD 83701
HECKLER (Com)
Publ-ic
there instead of coal. If you burn 9ds, you donrt need the
SCR.
If they go back and negotj-ater we can get out of
putting this money out in the first pIace. But until they get
to the table and negotiater w€ donrt rea11y know what optj-ons
are available.
In the J-argest context and I I 11 conclude
here I don't think there is any chance that Bridger will be
burning coal in Units 3 and 4 through 2034, ds the depreciation
schedule that Mr. Youngblood presented suggests. If you
approve what they have asked for, we're going to fight over
stranded cost in the future. Please help us avoj-d that fight.
COMMISSIONER SMITH: Thank you, Mr. Heckl-er.
Let's see if there are any questions for you.
From the Company?
Staff?
MS. SASSER: No, Madam Chair.
COMMISSIONER SMITH: Mr. Mi]Ier.
Any from the Commissj-oners?
COMMISSTONER REDEORD: No.
EXAMINATION
BY COMMISSIONER SMITH:
O. I just had one: On your reconrmendation to direct
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HEDRICK COURT REPORTINGP. O. BOX 578, BOTSE, rD
HECKLER (Com)
Public
Idaho Power to work with regulators, were you speaking about
the Wyoming regulators, that they were absent from whatever
conversations were had in Wyoming?
A. They clearly were absent from the negotj-ations
that were had in Wyoming, but now the fundamental- negotiations
are going to be with EPA.
O. OkaY.
A. f could conceive of a sol-ution and I think
Staff even alluded to this -- where Idaho Power did some
transaction and they sold their interest in Bridger to Pac.
That freed Pac up to negotiate with the EPA in Wyoming to avoid
more expensive upgrades that they otherwise would have incurred
upgrading Dave .Tohnston or Naughton.
f bel-ieve Ben Otto brought up the possibility
that our interests werenrt protected because PacifiCorp doing
the negotiating alone had the j-ncentive at least to do things
that weren't necessarily in our interest.
0. Okay. Thank you. We appreciate your testimony.
(The witness l-eft the stand.)
COMMISSIONER SMITH: Brandie Redinger. Did I do
that correctly: Brandie?
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HEDRTCK COURT REPORTTNGP. O. BOX 578, BOTSE, rD
REDINGER
Publ-ic
BRANDIE REDINGER,
appearing as a public wj-tness, being fj-rst duly sworn, was
examined and testif ied as fo.l-lows:
THE WITNESS: I have a very --
COMMISSIONER SMITH: Ms. Sasser needs to ask you
a couple questions.
EXAMINATION
BY MS. SASSER:
O. Please state your name and spe1I your l-ast name
for the record.
A. Brandie Redinger, B-R-A-N-D-I-E
R-E-D- ] -N-G_E-R.
O. And your resident address?
A. Thirty-fourth 2715 North 34th Street, Boise,
Idaho, 83703.
O. Thank you. Are you a customer of fdaho Power?
A. Yes, I am.
O. And you are very soft-spoken and you're right 1n
front of our court reporter, but you just might speak she'l-l-
let you know.
A. Okay. How's this? Great.
THE WITNESS: I just have a very short message as
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HEDRICK COURT REPORTING
P. O. BOX 578, BOTSE, rD
REDINGER
Public
a customer of fdaho Power, and
businessperson in Idaho. frve
for 27 years in Idaho. And the
invest this much money or want
dying industry of fossil fuels
customer.
also as an independent
been running my own busj-nesses
idea that a business plan can
to invest this much money in a
is kind of stunnj-ng to mer ds a
When I grew up in Idaho Fal1s in the 1970s, w€
became aware, I became aware as a chj-1d, that fossil- fuels were
a dead future, that we had a finite amount of fossil fue1s.
And I remember gasoli-ne was a quarter a gallon. And if you had
asked me, as a chiId, if I thought we were still- going to have
hearj-ngs like this, testifying about the use of fossil fuels as
a better future for our children and for Idahoans, f would have
said, "Nor " as a child. But here we are 45 years l-ater, and
we're stil-l debating this.
Alsor ds a businessperson, this just does not
l-ook like a business pIan. And when I wrote a letter to the
PUC about Idaho Power's business plan, I urged that Idaho Power
be asked to be more forward thinking for the future of Idaho.
That we are transporting that much energy from Wyoming doesn't
make any sense to me. The further you transport energy, the
more you lose. We have so many resources here that are good
resources for that actually could protect the future of our
chil-dren. So I know, myself, as an independent businessperson,
I could never I could never consider a business plan l-ike
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HEDRICK COURT REPORTING
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REDINGER
PubIic
this and expect to be in business.
One of the things that concerned me was that
Idaho Power for 45 years we've known that coal is not a good
idea, that fossil fuels are not a good idea, and suddenly Idaho
Power is saying, we11r w€ have to do this because we won't have
any power and the time is up and we have all- of these time
deadlines to hit. And I woul-d just really l-ike to encourage
fdaho Power, the PUC to encourage Idaho Power, to be more
forward thinking. There's been plenty of time to real-ize this.
What I also did not see j-n the business plan for
Idaho Power was an alternative business plan that would say
this is what it would l-ook like if we i-nvested in what we have
as resources here in ldaho. We have plenty of sun, we have
plenty of wind, we all know that. We have geothermal. We have
many, many means of power.And so I rea11y would like to
encourage the PUC to put a pressure on ldaho Power to produce a
business plan that looks at al-ternatives. I haven't seen one.
I saw what they published in The Statesman this week, and that
doesn't look l-ike a business plan to me. And f guess itrs our
business, because wetre the customers.
So I also want to thank the PUC for giving us the
opportunity to exercise our citizenship with this and our
concern for the future. Thank you.
COMMISSIONER SMITH: Thank you. Let's see if
there are any questions.
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HEDRICK COURT REPORTING
P. O. BOX 578, BOTSE, rD
REDINGER (X)
PubIic
MS. NORDSTROM: Yes, actuaIly.
COMMISSIONER SMITH: Ms. Nordstrom.
CROSS-EXAMINATION
BY MS. NORDSTROM:
O. Good evening.
A. Good evening.
O. Have you read Idaho Power's integrated resource
p1an, our busj-ness plan?
A. No, I haven't. I'm busy running four bus j-nesses.
I have not sat down with thei-rs.
O. Thank you. No further questions.
COMMISSIONER SMITH: Staff?
Erom the Commission?
COMMISSIONER REDFORD: No.
COMMISSIONER SMITH: Thank you for your
testimony.
(The witness left the stand. )
COMMISSIONER SMITH: Shantara Sandberg.
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HEDRICK COURT
P. O. BOX 578,
REPORTING
BOISE, ID
SANDBERG
Public
SHANTARA SANDBERG,
appearing as a public witness, being first duly sworn, was
examined and testif ied as fo.l-l-ows:
EXAMINATION
BY MS. SASSER:
O. Please state your name and speII your last name
for the record.
A. Shantara Sandberg, S-A-N-D-B-E-R-G.
0. And your resident address?
A. 918 Haines Court, Boise, Idaho, 837L2.
O. Thank you. And are you a customer of Idaho
Power?
A. I am.
O. Please proceed with your testimony.
A. Thank you.
THE WITNESS: I feel that this plan by Idaho
Power is very irresponsible: Irresponsible to Idahoans and
al-so i-rresponsibl-e to the planet. In terms of carbon
emissions, coal is one of the worst offenders. The planet in
our atmosphere has 400 parts per million. It is a leve1 that
does not support 1ife. We should reaIly be working at getting
j-t down to 350 parts per mi11ion. By spewing more carbon into
the air, we will be making matters worse.
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HEDRICK COURT REPORTTNG
P. O. BOX 578, BOTSE, rD 83701
And I agree with Brandie, who was just here, that
Idaho has a lot of energy that j-s availabl-e to us in the form
of sun -- we have abundant sun -- wind, geothermal. Sol-ar has
increased nationally 46 percent in the past two years, since
201L. We have more sun than many of the states that have
increased sofar. We al-so have a 1ot of wind. I don't know why
we are not using the resources that we already have.
Idaho Power chose to shut down the program to
cycle air conditioners and irrigation pumps off during peak
demand, which many households, incl-uding mine, signed up for.
This, and other conservation and efficiency approaches,
together with renewables, are what is needed at every turn.
Idaho Power now gets more power than they need
from thej-r new Langley Gulch gas power plant which raised rates
six and a half percent.
I donrt feel that the best interest of the public
is rea11y being accounted for in this plan. And f support the
PUC and fdaho Power to transj-tion from outdated, inefficient
generation technology to cleaner, more modern resources such as
energy efficiency and renewables.
COMMISSIONER SMITH: Thank you. Let's see if
there are any questi-ons.
MS. NORDSTROM: No questions.
MS. SASSER: No.
COMMISSIONER REDFORD: No.
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HEDRICK COURT REPORTING
P. O. BOX 578, BOTSE, rD
WATERMAN
Public
COMMISSIONER SMITH: Thank you for your
testimony.
(The witness l-eft the stand.)
COMMISSIONER SMITH: Zack Waterman.
ZACK WATERMAN,
appearing as a public witness, being first duly sworn, was
examined and testif i-ed as follows:
EXAM]NAT]ON
BY MS. SASSER:
O. Please state your name and spell your last name
for the record.
A. My name is Zack Waterman, and that's
W-A-T-E-R-M-A_N.
O. And your resident address, sir?
A. Sure. 426 West Thatcher, Boise, 83702.
O. And are you a customer of Idaho Power?
A. I am.
O. Thank you. Please proceed.
A. Thank you.
THE WITNESS: My name 1s Zack Waterman, and I am
the director of the Idaho chapter of the Sierra CIub. Ird l-ike
to thank you for having us here this evening.
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HEDRICK COURT REPORTING
P. O. BOX 578, BOTSE, rD
WATERMAN
PubIic
Our members have some serious concerns about
Idaho Power's request to put ratepayers on the hook for $130
mil-Ij-on retrofits to the Jim Bridger coal plant. In short, we
do not believe that the fj-nancial risks to ratepayers have been
fuIly accounted for, but more importantly, we are deeply
worrj-ed about the environmental and hea1th consequences from
our continued reliance on coal-fired el-ectricity generation.
Given that not everyone in attendance this
evening plans to offer comment, includj-ng some of our own
members, f'd like to ask your permission to have a show of
hands amongst those in attendance who show our concerns.
COMMISSIONER SMITH: Yes.
MEMBERS OF THE AUDIENCE: (Indicating. )
COMMISSIONER SMITH: Thank you.
THE WITNESS: Thank you.
COMMISSfONER SMITH: Let the record reflect that
nearly everyone in the room raised their hand.
THE WITNESS: Idaho Sierra Club believes that
climate change is one of the greatest threats to our planet and
our communities. Jim Bridger is one of the largest greenhouse
gas polluters in our region and spews 14.1 million metric tons
of carbon dioxide pollution every single year. It also spews
enormous amounts of mercury and soot that are detrj-mental to
public heal-th.
We do not bel-ieve that Idaho Power has adequately
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HEDRICK COURT REPORTING
P. O. BOX 578, BOTSE, fD
WATERMAN
Public
accounted for the cost of keeping Jim Bridger running for the
next 20 years. Mike Heckler mentioned rules that are coming
down the pike for CO2 regs for coal plants. We share his
concerns, but we'd afso l-ike to point out that EPA is going to
be issuing new coal ash and mercury regulations that could
cause ratepayers hundreds of mill-ions more.
We believe that Idaho Power shares our concerns
over the financial riskiness of thj-s upgrade. Lisa Grow,
senior vice president of power supply, acknowledged that the
Company would need to seriously rethj-nk these investments if
assurance is not given that all- costs woul-d be recovered from
ratepayers. We agree that Idaho Power should rethink these
lnvestments, and we hope that the Commission makes this happen
by denying the CPCN certifi-cate, as well as binding ratemaking
treatment.
I'd l-ike to reiterate though that we're even more
concerned about what our continued rellance on coal-fired
electricity generation means for our cl-imate. We l-ove living
in Idaho because of the quality of l-ife this state affords us.
Our members can fish and hunt, ski and backpack, and we want to
make sure that this quality of life is passed on to our kids
and thei-r grandkids.
We believe that Idaho is blessed with
significant, affordable, and unrealized renewable energy
resources and efficiencies that can help move us towards
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HEDRTCK COURT REPORTING
P. O. BOX 578, BOTSE, rD
WATERMAN
Public
meeting our staters energy needs whil-e growing our economy and
investlng our money here in Idaho. By lnvesting in these
potentials rather than an aging fleet of coal plants, w€ think
we wil-I al-so advance the goals of the Idaho State energy plan
which says efficiency should be Idaho's number one energy
resource, foll-owed by renewables, and only traditional fossil
fuels when absol-utely necessary. We think that this is an
opportunity for our state's largest utility to comply wi-th
adopted state energy policy.
Other utilities around the natj-on are seizing the
opportunity of renewables, incl-uding this month Excel Energy in
Colorado announced that they were going to be investing in 750
new megawatts of new wind generatlon, and they dj-dn't do it to
be green, they did it because it was the best deal for their
customers on the tabl-e. At the same time, utilities in our
region are retiring coal pJ-ants, including the Boardman and
Central-ia plants. Nevada Energy, who co-owns North Valmy coal-
plant in Nevada, just announced this year that within seven
years they're going to be completely coal-free as wel-1. This
month, the nation's largest utility, the Tennessee Va1Iey
Authority, said that they were going to shutter eight coal
plants that generate 3,300 megawatts capacity.
Ditching coal for renewable energy efficj-encies
j-s not a pie-in-the-sky idea; it's happening across the country
and it's happening today. I'd also like to ask the staters
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HEDRICK COURT REPORTING
P. O. BOX 578, BOTSE, rD
WATERMAN
Public
largest utility to lead us towards a clean energy future and a
more stabl-e climate. We recognize and appreciate the
leadership that you guys have shown on investments in Idaho's
energy efficiencies, but we belj-eve we can do a lot more.
We understand that we cannot shutter ,Jim Bridger
tomorrow or the next year, but we do believe that there are
better al-ternatives than to continue to pour hundreds of
mil-lions of doll-ars j-nto aging coal plants. Idaho Power can do
better than to lock ratepayers into decades more of coa1, and
we beLieve that's essentj-ally what they're asking for in this
case.
In conclusion, untj-I Idaho Power has fu1Iy
accounted for the long-term cost of operating Jim Bridger coal
pIant, our 2,000 Sierra Club members woul-d like to ask the
Public Utility Commission to deny binding ratemaking treatment,
and protect ratepayers.
The members thank you for the opportunity to
provide public comment here thj-s evening.
COMMISSIONER SMITH: Thank you, Mr. Waterman.
Let's see if there are questions for you.
From the Commission?
Nor I. Thank you very much.
THE WITNESS: Thank you.
(Applause. )
(The witness left the stand. )
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HEDRICK COURT REPORTING
P. O. BOX 578, BOTSE, rD
ANDERSON
Publ-ic
COMMISSIONER SMITH: Mr. Ken Mill-er.
MR. KEN MILLER: I'm not signed up.
COMMISSIONER SMITH: Is there a Ken Miller in
this room who signed up?
A VOICE: Ken.
A VOICE: Ken. Ken Miller. Ken. He's here.
A VOICE: No, he's not testifying.
MR. KEN MILLER: f'm not signed up.
COMMISSIONER SMITH: Somebody named Ken Mi11er,
or someone put a name of Ken Mi11er.
MR. KEN MILLER: Commissioner, that probably is
the case.
MR. MILLER: Could be an evil twin.
COMMISSIONER SMITH: Most Iikely.
How about Norman E. Anderson.
NORMAN E. ANDERSON,
appearing as a public witness, belng first duly sworn, was
examined and testified as follows:
EXAMINATION
BY MS. SASSER:
a. Please state your name, spelling your last name
for the record.
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HEDRICK COURT REPORTING
P. O. BOX 518, BOTSE, rD 83701
ANDERSON
Public
A. Norman E. Anderson, A-N-D-E-R-S-O-N.
O. And your resident address, Mr. Anderson?
A. Yes, it's L253 Cow Horse Drive, Kuna, 83634.
0. Are you a customer of Idaho Power?
A. Yes, I am.
O. Thank you.
THE WITNESS: The concerns I have with Idaho
Power start with two documents. One was in the Saturday
Reader's View from Lisa Grow from Idaho Power, senior vice
president of power supply, and then accompanying our bill that
we received today was their latest Connections document. And
in those documents, they're probably run by the same PR writer
because they echo many of the same comments.
One of the things that they have tried to do here
is to convj-nce us that they need to continue coal for the long
term into the future, and they brag about the fact that they
have some of the cleanest electrj-city in the country. [Ve11, I
would maintain that being the cleanest of the dirty polluters
is not much to brag about.
They also ask for -- mentlon that they need a
pathway to carry on beyond coal. And as others have already
expressed, the questj-on should be "What can we do to accelerate
getting out of coal-?" and "We're going to start looking at
other alternatives." But they just continue pushing the theme
that they have no other choice but to continue these thlngs.
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HEDRICK COURT REPORTING
P. O. BOX 578, BOTSE, rD
ANDERSON
Public
Both documents pretty much close with the trying
to make us feel good by telling us that if you were to approve
their application tonight, it won't have immediate impact on
our rates, and then they kind of mention that we'Il spend the
money and come back to you to pay for it l-ater. That's littl-e
comfort to me. I'm still going to wind up paying for money to
put into things that are wasteful. So, that doesn't help.
The Idaho Power, of course, is regulated by the
PUC, as are all of
jurisdiction. They
funneled to the PUC to support
have a very good reLatj-onship
on issues al-l- the time.
dark here.
the other public utilities in our
pay fees to the state whj-ch are then
your operation here. And they
with you because you're meeti-ng
The people, unfortunately, seem to be l-eft in the
We have tried in the past to get an advocate, a
ratepayer advocate for the people, and that has been turned
back before, But we don't have a voice at the tabl-e i-n most
cases. We do appreciate the opportunj-ty to come tonight.
And I would conclude by saying that the best
thing that the PUC could do to protect us ratepayers is to deny
this application and encourage Idaho Power, as others have
mentioned, to pursue, as soon as they can, Iooking at the other
alternatives that are available to them now. The technology is
there; they just don't seem to have the wil-l-ingness to pursue
these other venues.
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HEDRICK COURT REPORTING
P. O. BOX 578, BOTSE, rD
ANDERSON
Public
Thank you.
COMMISSIONER SMITH: Thank you, Mr. Anderson.
Are there questions for Mr. Anderson?
Quest j-ons?
COMMISSIONER REDFORD: No.
COMMISSIONER SMITH: Thank you very much for
coming tonight.
THE WITNESS: Thank you.
(The witness left the stand. )
COMMISSIONER SMITH: Wendy, 1et's go off the
record just a second.
(Dj-scussion off the record. )
COMMISSIONER SMITH: A1I right, Iet's go back on
the record.
Steve Rostron. Did I say that right? Steve,
lives on Idaho Street.
Okay, Dick Mil-Ier.
MR. DICK MILLER: Here.
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HEDRICK COURT REPORTING
P. O. BOX 578, BOTSE, rD
MILLER
PubIic
D]CK M]LLER,
appearj-ng as a public witness, being first duly sworn, was
examined and testif ied as fol-l-ows:
EXAMINATTON
BY MS. SASSER:
O. Please state your name, spelling your l-ast name
for the record.
A. Dick Mi11er, M-I-L-L-E-R.
O. And your resldent address on ldaho Street?
A. No.
a. That was the prior gentleman, wasn't it?
A. I live at 256 East Lake Rim Lane in Boi-se.
O. And are you a customer of Idaho Power?
A. f am.
A. Pl-ease proceed with your testj-mony.
A. Thank you.
THE WITNESS: I'm a retired smaIl business owner
and I've studied this issue, this matter, for the last couple
of months, and it really has gotten my attention. I would say
Idaho Power's proposed $130 million investment in sel-ective
catalytic reduction at the Wyoming Jim Bridger coal plant is
bad business strategy, and unfair to ratepayers l-ike myself.
Idaho Power should be seeking to decommission
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HEDRICK COURT REPORTING
P. O. BOX 578, BOTSE, rD 83701
MILLER
Publ-ic
coal-fired plants like other energy companies across the
country. Rather, it shoul-d be investing in renewabl-e green
energy alternatives and promoting energy conservation. It
makes no sense to keep investing in dirty energy technology.
Asking the Commission to al-l-ow Idaho Power to
pass along $130 million investment to ratepayers is also bad
business. I object to this because Idaho Power does not bear
any risk at a time when pendj-ng environmental compllance
requirements for existing coal--fire plants are uncertain at
best.
I urge the Commj-ssion to deny Idaho Power's
request to approve $130 million for sel-ective catalytic
reduction at the Jim Bridger coal pIant, and I appreciate this
opportunity to share my opinion. Thank you.
COMMISSIONER SMITH: And we appreciate that you
came to share it, Mr. Miller. Let's see if there are any
questlons.
Seeing noner w€ thank you for your comments.
THE WITNESS: Thank you.
(The witness l-eft the stand.)
COMMISSIONER SMITH: Carol Stirling.
MS. STIRLING: Irm going to submj-t mine online.
COMMISSIONER SMITH: Okay, thank you. We
appreciate that.
Dede Shelton.
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HEDRICK COURT REPORTINGP. O. BOX 578, BOTSE, rD
MS. SHELTON: Madam Commissioner, fry conrments
would onLy duplicate those that have preceded me.
COMMISSIONER SMITH: A11 right. Thank you.
James oh, sorry. ,.Tames B1ake1y.
JAMES BLAKELY,
appearing as a public witness, being first duly sworn, was
examined and testified as follows:
EXAMINATION
BY MS. SASSER:
O. Pl-ease state your name, spelling your last name
for the record.
A. My name is .James B1ake1y, B-L-A-K-E-L-Y.
0. And your resident address?
A. 5700 West Edson Street, Boise.
A. Mr. B1ake1y, are you a customer of Idaho Power?
A. Yes, I am.
O. Thank you.
THE WfTNESS: This is a lump of coa1. This is
what we're al-l- here about. f t' s why we're spending our Monday
evening. ft's why we're here. Because Idaho Power wants to
doubl-e down on this rock, this dead piece of rock formed
millions of years ago.
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HEDRICK COURT REPORTING
P. O. BOX 578, BOTSE, rD
BLAKELY
PubIic
I'm not going to tal-k about the economics and the
costs of coal- versus sol-ar and wind r ox their business model.
It's already been said and there are other people that can
speak to it much better than I can. And most of what I have
had planned has also already been said, so I'm going to make
this short.
But I am here to talk about the moral
implications of burning coaI. Itrs 2013 and we all know that
this rock j-s deadly, it is toxic. It is estimated that it
kil-l-s over 13,000 people a year simply by burning it. It
pollutes our envj-ronment; it kil-l-s our children, our elderly;
it causes lung dj-seases; it wrecks the cl-imate.
A VOICE: Yeah.
THE WITNESS: This is not just an economic issue,
this i-s a moral issue. And if fdaho Power wants to continue
down this road -- Ioad, that should be on their headsr olr their
CEO's heads, oD their conscience, and they should not be able
to pass that cost on to the ratepayers.
If they are not willing to do the right thing, if
they are not willing to start making investments in clean,
renewable energy for the sake of our children and our planet,
then it's time that we flnd a new utility company.
Thank you.
(Applause. )
COMMfSSIONER SMITH: Thank you. Thank you,
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HEDRICK COURT REPORTING
P. O. BOX 578, BOTSE, rD
BLAKELY
Public
Mr. Blake1y. Let's see if there are any questions.
a vOrir: r have a question.
COMMISSIONER SMITH: I'm sorry, the peopl-e who
get to ask questions are the parties and the Commissj-oners.
A VOICE: Darn.
COMMISSIONER SMITH: Thank you.
THE WITNESS: You can talk to me personally
afterwards.
COMMISSIONER SMITH: So as odd as it may seem,
when the Commission sits, it's almost like being in District
Court, State District Court, and our decisions are appealed
directly to the State Supreme Courtr so it's important that we
maintain our 1eve1 of decorum and get the precise comments on
the record. So, comments from the audience are not permitted,
but he has offered to be willing for discussion l-ater so you
can take him up on that.
Thank you, Mr. Blakely.
Edwina Allen.
(The witness left the stand. )
COMMISSfONER SMITH: Is Edwina A1len here?
A VOICE: Shers coming up.
COMMISSIONER SMITH: Oh, there she is.
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HEDRICK COURT REPORTING
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ALLEN
Public
EDWINA ALLEN,
appearing as a public witness, being first duly sworn, was
examined and testif ied as f ol-l-ows:
EXAMINATION
BY MS. SASSER:
A. Good evening. Please state your name, spelling
your last name for the record.
A. Edwina A11en, A-L-L-E-N.
O. Ms. A11en, what is your resident address?
A. 21,L4 Ridgecrest Drive in Boise, 831L2.
O. And are you a customer of Idaho Power?
A. Yes, I am.
O. Thank you.
THE WITNESS: Members of the Commission, thank
you for this opportunity to testify. This evening, I want to
talk to you about clj-mate disruption and the opportunity we
have before us to try for a more climate friendly future for
electricity we use here in Southern Idaho. Like many Idaho
Power customers, I thought the electricity I used mostly comes
from hydropower generated at dams. Turns out, more than 40
percent comes from dirty, out-of-state coal plants.
Those coal plants are getting old. Today, you're
considering haze reduction, the first in a series of upcoming
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federall-y-required expensj-ve upgrades to reduce the pollution
comJ-ng out of the smokestacks of the Jim Bridger plant in
Wyoming. Soon to fol-l-ow are regulations for carbon dioxide, a
huge global warming pollutant.
Since industry scal-e technology for CO2 reductj-on
does not currently exist, cost estj-mates are challenging to
estimate. I ask that instead of approvi-ng Idaho Powerrs
current request to invest 130 million of our ratepayer do1lars
in ol-d coal plant upgrades, you require that they do a
long-range analysis of anticipated costs of continuj-ng to rely
on dirty coal. With a price of energy from coal rising and
solar costs dropping rapj-dIy, we need to ask where they're
Iocking us ratepayers into expensive coal generatj-on for the
next 20 years is our best choice.
We can build clean energy solutions here in
Idaho. Our energy future can be renewable, it can come from
solar and wind and energy efficiency like better insulated
walls and windows. We could choose to increase our energy
independence and create jobs right here in fdaho.
Personally, I put solar panels on my roof so I
coul-d contribute to reducing greenhouse gases and also help
generate el-ectricity on hot summer afternoons. This l-owers
peak demand on Idaho Powerrs generating capacity
Climate change is an overwhelming
do our part here in Idaho and get beyond coal.
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Thank you for this opportunity to testify.
COMMISSIONER SMITH: Thank you, Ms. Al-Ien.
Are there questions for Ms. Allen?
Okay, thank you very much.
(The witness left the stand. )
COMMISSIONER SMITH: Richard Rusnak.
RICHARD RUSNAK,
appearing as a public witness, being first duly sworn, was
examined and testif ied as fol-l-ows:
EXAMINATTON
BY MS. SASSER:
A. Please state your name and spe11 your l-ast name
for the record.
A. Richard Rusnak, R-U-S-N-A-K. Address, 2400 South
Wildrye Way, Nampa, 83686. And, yes, I am a customer of fdaho
Power.
O. Thank you.
THE WITNESS: Thanks to the PUC for al-l-owing this
joyous occasj-on, in my opinion, to testify on behalf of our
feelings.
As a medical professional, I'm baffled by this
intransigent policy that fdaho Power seems to want to put upon
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us ratepayers, especially while other utilities across the
country are closing coal plants and renewables are increasingly
more cost effective for both the homeowner and businesses. But
Idaho Power continues j-ts desire towards investing in this
nj-neteenth century power source. So I would 1j-ke to ask the
PUC to take into consideration the systemic societal costs of
continulng investment in a power source that directly causes
thousands of deaths, a billlon dol-l-ars in health care costs
annuaIly, and mercury poisoning of fdaho's beloved waters and
our fisheries. Part of being an fdahoan is trout fishing and
enjoying the outdoors, and coal is definitely a poison to that
style of l-ife.
So with knowledge aforethought regarding the
antiquated coal--generated energy, Idaho Power's message seems
to be obliging only to the profits of its shareholders. I sdy,
No, not in the twenty-first century, a century with
unimagj-nable human and environmental- calamities brought by the
climate, by climate change.
Idaho Power has a health and safety obligation
first. It should be providing a safe product for Idahoans. We
can think back of what the tobacco countries companies used
to te1l us about the safety of tobacco. Now we all- know what a
sham that was.
Instead, this conscious decision to invest in
coal both ignores the economi-c benefits of growing a renewable
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energy portfolio, and flies in the face of providing a product
that does not accelerate environmental harm nor risk further
heal-th hazards upon the current and future generation of
customers of Idaho Power.
I wou1d ask the PUC to not permj-t these
investments, and send a message and an opportunity for fdaho
Power to l-ead us out of the nineteenth century and into the
forefront of a new economic model for energy production, where
societal and environmental health take precedent over profits.
Idaho's readily-available wind, so1ar, and geothermal should
instead be the focus of Idaho Power's economic paradigm, while
eliminating coal from our portfolio, our life in Idaho, and
supporti-ng our innate right to 11ve free of harm from
coal--toxic air and water.
Thank you for this opportunity.
COMMISSIONER SMITH: Thank you.
Any questions?
V{e appreciate you coming tonight.
(The witness l-eft the stand.)
COMMISSIONER SMITH: Mark Sch- Sch-
MR. SCHLEGEL: Schlegel.
COMMISSIONER SMITH: Thank you.
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HEDRICK COURT REPORTING
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MARC SCHLEGEL,
appearing as a publj-c witness, being first duly affirmed, was
examined and testif ied as foll-ows:
THE WITNESS: Mark Sch1ege1, S-C-H-L-E-G-E-L,
525 t/2 Warm Springs Avenue, Boj-se, 837L2. And I am indirectly
a customer of Idaho Power. I don't have an account, but I pay
rent to a place that has an account.
MS. SASSER: Thank you. Please proceed with your
testimony.
THE WITNESS: A11 right, thank you.
I consider the mandate of the Utility Company and
public utilities to consj-der much more than just the next
fiscal quarter and much more than just the next fiscal year,
but just to consider the mandate to be a service for the conrmon
good. And that we must consider much more than just profit
margins and consider the protectj-on of the most vulnerable,
including the children who breathe the air, the elderly who
breathe our air, the creatj-on that cannot speak and protect for
itself, and those who live near sea 1evel who are impoverished
who have no choice but to live near sea level. And so I woul-d
urge the Public Utilities Commission to consider the protection
of the most vulnerable and of the cornmon good that thinks into
the future and not just the next fiscal quarter, doesn't take
the short view of profit but takes the long view of protection
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HEDRICK COURT REPORTTNGP. O. BOX 578, BOTSE, rD
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of creation and protecting the most vulnerabl-e and the conrmon
good.
Thank you.
COMMfSSIONER SMITH: Thank you.
Any questions?
(The witness l-eft the stand.)
COMMISSIONER SMITH: Appreciate you coming.
Lou Landry.
LOU LANDRY,
appearing as a public witness, being first duly sworn, was
exami-ned and testified as fol-l-ows:
EXAMINATION
BY MS. SASSER:
O. Good evening, sir.
A. Good evening.
O. Cou1d you state your name, spelling your last
name for the record, please.
A. Lou Landry, L-A-N-D-R-Y, 217 East 33rd Street,
Garden City.
A. And are you a customer of ldaho Power?
THE WfTNESS: I am a customer and I am also a
shareholder, and I have attended, oh, about four years of
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shareholder meetings at Idaho Power, and I commend them to
anyone who would buy at l-east a share to go there and see it.
I have also attended a number of years of going
to the IRP and am familiar with the IRP planning process, the
integrated resource plan, which is in some ways a business plan
for Idaho Power and how they provide us power and what fuels.
On every occasion that f've had a chance to speak
to Idaho Power executives at the shareholder meeting is the
only opportunity, and at the IRP meetings when staff is
there I've complimented them on a number of things:
Number one, as they say over and over, they
provide 24/1/365. And that's real1y important. We rea1ly do
expect our switches to work when we turn them on, and I
appreciate that the Public Utility Commission takes its work so
seriously in regulating such an j-mportant service to the
public.
I have appreciated in the integrated resource
plan the work of the staff of trying to take a look at where
our stream flows are going to be, and under certain times right
now it's a pretty tough bit of work and I've seen some
excell-ent work there.
I've worked at some properties when fdaho Power
staff have been there and I've seen incredibl-e safety
consciousness and wonderful attention to the public.
However, I must say I'm deeply disturbed at upper
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management and the direction that they are taking the Company
and where they are taking the ratepayers.
So, for example, as has been highlighted j-n terms
of a opinion pJ-ece that appeared Saturday in the paper by
Lisa Grow, vice president for power planning, power supply, and
f also was at one of your hearings when she testified, she said
Idaho Power is on a glide path out of coal-. Itrs the first
time I've ever heard that. And I think she's ri-ght. Where I
think they're wrong is how steep that glide path needs to be.
And I think that the risky strategy that they are proposing in
this parti-cu1ar case,
fix a technology thatl
twenty-first century,
asking us for rate
which means we absorb
Now, I looked it
a stockholder, I looked up how
which is the fj-rst of many Band-Aids to
s not going to make it in the
we are just beginning to pay and they are
what is it ca11ed, binding ratemaking,
it.
uP,
wet
and it's important to me,
re doing as a company, and
AS
the net i-ncome was L49.3 mil-l-ion for the f irst nine months of
20L3 compared to 150 million for the same period Ln 20L2.
That's from The WalI Street Journal of November the 5th. And
there were statements in there by the chaj-rman of the board,
Mr. Keen, on how wel-I Idaho Power is doing. ff Idaho Power is
doing so wel-l-, sel-f-fund these and don't ask us to take the
risk.
Now, when we were at the hearings, there was also
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an issue of, we1l, could they go out into capital markets and
get the capi-ta1 to do it. Wel-l-, strangely, I'm on the finance
committee of our church, and we have our moneys managed by a
fj-duciary and I opened up the recent statement from them, and
it said "We're excluding companj-es whose prj-mary business is
the mining and production of coal, and excl-uding utilities
which rely on coal-fired plants for a significant portion of
their power generation." So maybe Idaho Power couldnrt get it
in the capital markets so they come to the ratepayer. You take
the risk because people who know risk won't invest in this.
That's my concern.
I'd l-ike to see this company succeed i-n providing
power that is cIean, that is fairly prJ-ced in the fdaho market,
and when I l-ook at the flaws in the IRP and I think, members
of the Commission, we have to take a look at this and how the
IRP integrates with what's going on in this particular
ratemaking, and what we've watched consistently is a company
that is trying to basically disable al-ternatj-ve fuels, clean
fue1s, clean alternatives. What happened in the net metering
case, what's happened in PURPA and wind, this has been a
consistent strategy of Idaho Power, and if you look at it
across the country, it's a consj-stent strategy of other
util-ities. They share that informatj-on. They don't know how
they're going to make money in the future 1n the oId ways and
they haven't figured out a way to go forward.
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HEDRICK COURT REPORTING
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Now in terms of the solar assets that we could
Iook at and many people here have brought it up: WeII,
don't we have sol-ar? f sn't that one of our great riches if
you look at the integrated resource plan and the solar
component of it and I said this to the staff, staff who I
respect j-t's bogus. It is so flawed, it is so bad, it's an
embarrassment. It is not a real plan to achieve and even
experiment with how we could integrate solar in this community.
Therers a wonderful artlcle that appears in the
Hiqh Country News of September 2, 20L3. f t's cal-l-ed Power
P1ay. Idaho Power, one of the West's great ol-d-school
monopolies, is waging war on renewable power energy. Is it
winning?
And I would say at this point they are winning.
And if you grant this request, you help them win that, and I
don't think that's good utility policy for the state of fdaho.
I urge you not to approve this proposal from Idaho Power.
(Applause. )
COMMISSfONER SMITH: Thank you.
Were there any questions for Mr. Landry?
A VOICE: Can I ask a question?
COMMISSIONER SMITH: No.
A VOICE: I'm unclear: Who can ask questions and
who can not?
COMMISSIONER SMITH: As f explained previously,
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the parties to the case who are represented here by their
attorneys, and the Commissioners, frdy ask questions.
So, thank you, Mr. Landry.
COMMISSIONER SMITH: Thank you very much.
(The witness left the stand. )
COMMISSIONER SMITH: Ri-chard O. Porter.
MR. PORTER: Oh, yes, Ir11 submit mine online.
I've got quite a bit to Sdy, so I'11 submit it online.
COMMISSIONER SMITH: Okay. Mr. Porter and the
woman who was al-so going to submit online, you wil1 need to do
that within -- before noon tomorrow if that if that can be
done, because this is the final- proceeding in this case and the
record will cl-ose after we get the comments and the Commission
will proceed into the decision-making part of the case.
MR. PORTER: Not a problem.
COMMISSIONER SMITH: Okay, good. Thank you very
much.
Wendy Wilson.
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HEDRICK COURT REPORTING
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WENDY WILSON,
appearing as a public witness, being first duly sworn, was
examined and testif ied as f ol-lows:
EXAMINATION
BY MS. SASSER:
0. Could you please state your name and spel1 your
Iast name for the record.
A. Wendy Wilson, W-I-L-S-O-N.
O. Thank you. And your address?
A. 3209 North 39th Street, Boj-se. And, yesr I am a
customer of Idaho Power.
O. Thank you.
A. Thank you.
THE WITNESS: I'm here today representing my --
the next generation of chil-dren that are to be born and raj-sed
here in Idaho. Most of their parents are home watching the
50th annj-versary of Doctor Who, f believe, tonightr so I'm
representing my two that arenrt able to make it.
I want to thank the Commission for having this
hearing. It's great to have this much participation and
interest in this issue.
Across the country right now, we're seeing that
coal is a very risky resource. Many of the companies that have
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been heavily j-nvested in this industry are puI1i-ng out, and
that's because it is not sustainable in a warming world that we
are now going to, and the risks are far outweighing their
benefits at this point.
Bridger is a risky coal plant. Already it's been
known to leak as much as 10r000 gallons a month of polluted
water out of the two ash ponds that are adjacent to it. There
will- be remediation thatrs needed there.
It requires and consumes 8.5 billion gallons of
water a year that comes out of the Colorado watershed. Idaho,
of courser w€ are very dependent on hydropower and the water it
requires to run our dams and produce our power, and when it
doesn't rain in fdaho, w€ need some backup. If it's not
raining in Idaho, it's not raining in the Colorado. That
facility is even more dangerously risky in a warming wor1d.
It's essentially like importing 6,400 gallons a year per
customerr ds I went through the calculations of how much of the
Colorado River watershed we are trying to import for Idaho
Power customers. That doesnrt seem sustainabl-e to me.
So, we have a rich renewabl-e resource, many of
them here in Idaho. We need that investment that Idaho Power
is collecting from the ratepayers to real1y find sustainable
resources that we can have for the next generation. ff we
allow the Company at this point to rate base these costs, we'11
only be taking away the incentive and motivation for them to
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HEDRICK COURT REPORTINGP. O. BOX 5'78, BOTSE, f D
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sol-ve this problem. We need those financial commitments to
help our state in the long run.
Thank you.
COMMISSIONER SMITH: Thank you, Ms. Wilson.
Do you have any questions?
COMMISSIONER KJELLANDER: NO.
COMMISSIONER SMITH: Appreciate you coming.
THE WITNESS: Sure.
(The witness Ieft the stand. )
COMMISSIONER SMITH: Sage Premoe. Get that one
right?
SAGE PREMOE,
appearing as a public witness, being first duly sworn, was
examined and testif ied as foll-ows:
THE WITNESS: My name is Sage Premoe,
P-R-E-M-O-E. I reside at 341 Oak, Boise. I am a customer of
Idaho Power.
MS. SASSER: Thank you.
THE WITNESS: I dj-dn't -- wow. I came here,
never having witnessed this procedure before. As a facilitator
and a process person, f am having a difficult time spending my
tj-me at this because I donrt know who's on trj-al-, unless it's
Idaho Power. And then if I was aware of that, I woul-d have put
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together cross-examination for the air and the water and the
land that you are poisoning that you have not only poisoned it
but you continue to advocate to do for the right to do sor
providing electricity for -- at the expense of the heal-th of
humans, wiIdlife, and our bio system that supports us in the
soil and that supports 1ife. Even if I wasnrt a even if I
didn't reside in Boise and I didn't use electricity, f stil-I
breathe the air. I stil-l eat the food that's in the ground. I
stiIl need to drink the water thatrs being polluted by this
poison, coal.
f disapprove of the j-mprovements and the
continuation of coal- as a medium for providing electricity.
I've seen in your literature where you have
actively campaJ-gned against al-ternative sources to provide for
utilities. So in my evaluation, it seems that you have put
yourself in the predicament of of sayi-ng that we are at a
crisj-s point that if we don't do this, that we won't have
electricj-ty. Yourve had 40 years of studies and other
institutions have gone in different directions to not be in
this situation.
And, again, as a process person and as a
facilitator, trainer, I can't thank you for this opportunity to
wj-tness or to testify because it is should be the right of
humans and your public to be able to address as well as direct
this Commissj-on in the directj-on that it should go.
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When Irve been i-n court and f 've been in court
many times representing varj-ous women in domestic violence I
find that the people on the stand have to tell- the truth, but
the people behind the desks the judges, the commissions, the
lawyers do not have to swear in and tell- the truth. So when
you read literature about where the coal- plant is, check j-t
out. It's in Wyoming. When they talk about the amount of
money that they are proposing, check it out. It may be bigger
than it said.
So I woul-d reaIIy like to stress everyone in this
room shoul-d be here and just simply say I do not approve of the
directj-on of coal-, that it poisons my body, and poisons my
children. It poisons al-l- of those things that I have I
dearly love in 1ife. Just say it. It's important. Be on the
record.
COMMISSIONER SMITH: Thank you, Ms. Premoe.
Are there any questions?
(The witness l-eft the stand.)
COMMISSIONER K,IELLANDER: No.
COMMISSIONER SMITH: Stephen White.
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STEPHEN WHITE,
appearing as a public witness, being first duly sworn, was
examined and testified as follows:
EXAMINATION
BY MS. SASSER:
O. Coul-d you please state your name and spell your
last name for the record?
A. Sure. Stephen White, W-H-I-T-E.
O. And your address, sir?
A. 1518 Knights Drlve, Boi-se, Idaho.
O. Thank you. Are you a customer of Idaho Power?
A. Yes.
O. Pl-ease proceed.
THE WITNESS: Thank you, ladies and gentlemen of
the Commission. The pace of change in the energy sector has
accelerated. When the future is more uncertain, the process
that we must use to analyze investments has to adapt; j-trs just
a fact of life. Risk and uncertainty increase the value of
f l-exibility.
The investment in coal j-s what we call a "1umpy
investment" in the investment world. It can l-ook cheap if you
can perfectly predict the future, but we know we cannot. You
can l-ook back over the history of when Idaho Power has tried to
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forecast future demand and has been dramatically off.
What is the cost of excess capacity if ldaho
Power's demand forecast is wrong? The Commission has not been
presented with that analysis. Technologies are rapidly
lmproving. There is value in the flexibility to take advantage
of alternatives as they develop and, hence, become more
advantageous. Again, the Commission has not been presented
with this analysis.
A substantial cost is the IeveI of excess
capacity that Idaho Power maintains to cover the worst-case
scenarios. When you rely on 1arge, out-of-state generation,
the level- of excess capacity necessary 1s higher. Distributed
generation in other resources require less. A dj-versified
portfolio of different technologies is going to be l-ess costly
than single, 1arge, lumpy investments in facilities like what
we're talking about tonight. Again, these values are not
considered in this case. As an expert in i-nvestment analysis,
this case does not sufficiently justify the proposed
investment.
I would al-so like to point out that the 20L2
Idaho energy plan j-nstructs Idaho util-ities that when acquiring
resources, priority shouf,d be given to conservation,
efficiency, demand response, and, secondly, to renewable
resources. The proposal before the PUC does not adequately
consi-der these alternatives.
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That concl-udes my statement.
COMMISSIONER SMITH: Thank you, sir. Let's see
if there are questions.
I do not. [l[e appreciate your testimony and your
comments.
Steve
(The witness left the stand. )
MR.'JAKUBOWICS: Jakubowics.
COMMISSIONER SMITH: Thank you.
MR. JAKUBOWICS: I knew it was me, because
there's always that hesitatj-on.
COMMISSIONER SMITH: The big pause.
STEVE JAKUBOWICS,
appearing as a public witness, being first duly sworn, was
examined and testi-f ied as follows:
THE WITNESS: Good evening, everybody. My name
is Steve Jakubowics. Last name is J-A-K-U-B-O-W-I-C-S. I
always know when my name comes up because
Anyway, I reside at 908 North 21st Street, Boise,
Idaho, and I am a customer of Idaho Power.
I just want to say a few things. It took me
about one minute to jot down my ideas.
frm an environmental planner, environmental
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JAKUBOWTCS
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scientist, by background. I'm retired now. I worked for the
Eederal Energy Regulatory Commission for a whil-e in the
hydropower side of things. But as an envj-ronmental person and
a conservationist type person and following global warming
throughout my education 40 years ago and what's been goj-ng on
in the earth and as a biologist, f am just I'm here because
I can't belj-eve that Idaho Power is getting ready to spend
$130 million on a techno1ogy that is something that the entire
Earth needs to just get away from. It's killing the planet,
it's killing the animals. Just the mj-ning of coaf, w€ look at
mountain-top removal and the water pollutj-on, the loss of
habitat for the critters, I mean, I can go on forever. That's
what I did for a career is write environmental- impact
statements on energy type things. I just l-ook at it as Idaho
Power could spend $130 mill-j-on instead of using our ratepayer
money towards a filthy, heal-th-causing you know, it's just
an ancient technology that we need to get away from to save
this planet.
Global warming is rea1. Irve been in the
Himalayas, walking, and I hear the local- people there. They
seem to be more aware of it than we are. They see that the
water doesn't come off the way it used to. I mean, on and on
and on. I'm not going to talk about that.
But there are al-ternatives out there and they are
clean, and we can spend that $130 mil-lion and we could j-nvest
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it in energy efficiency, energy conservation.
I was amazed when f got my -- in the bills you
get from Idaho Power, in their newsletter, they're sitting
there, telling people to be against so1ar. They came to the
PUC and proposed a tax on sol-ar. I said to myself, yourve got
to be kidding me. How can a utility be proposing being against
soIar, a clean, renewable resource that everybody, especially
in Idaho, has availabl-e to themselves. I mean, this is just,
like, outrageous what this company is doing.
And we're the ratepayers, werre the ones paying
for this stuff. Why donrt they spend that money instead and
come up with a program that actually j-nvests in home solar
panels? You know, under PURPA, you know, the thing is they
coul-d invest j-n solar and then you get the energy would go
into their grid and they coul-d charge for the solar that is
generated from the panels that they invest in. I mean there's
all- I'm not going to sit here.I mean, I could come up with
plans, but the point is there's all kinds of ways they can
invest that money that are going to lead us down a clean future
rather than a filthy future thatrs just killing the planet.
And, you know, l-ike I said, because of my
training and my background, but, you know, the mercury
pollutJ-on, the asthma, the water pollution, and the death of
the planet is this j-s -- we've got to be done with this
mentality. And it's high time that the ratepayers of Idaho
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Power get vocal and say, Hel-I with this. We don't want this.
What we want is clean energy and we want a future for the
planet.
And I guess that's al-l- f have to say. Thank you
so much.
(Applause. )
EXAMINATION
BY COMMISSIONER SMTTH:
O. This is risky, but I have a question: I hlas very
interested in your career at FERC j-n the hydro side.
A. Right.
A. Do you see any potential for new hydro?
A. Not reaIIy, because of the environmental effects
of it. And we pretty much have already -- I also worked for
the Bureau of Reclamation for a long time in the planning side
of it, and there rea11y -- you know, al-l- of the sites, the good
sites, have been taken.
Now, the one thing I actually made a little note
of is the one thing I haven't been following in Idaho Power, I
was involved way back when when they were doing all their
relicensing for the hydropower.
O. We're still in it.
A. WeI1, I'm sure. Every 50 years, you've got to
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renew.
O. WeII, it seems to be taking 50 years to get
relicensed, but no comment on the process.
A. No, I don't blame you there.
But the one thing, I did al-so I mean, as
another alternative, I don't know what they're doing on this
because Irve been retired and out of that side for a while, but
there's also the whole thing of rewinding the exj-sting units.
A. Right.
A. You know, you can get a lot of power by just
rewj-ndj-ng the existing turbines, you know. The Bureau of
Reclamatj-on used to do that, you know, l-ike at Anderson Ranch
Dam, and this is 40 years ago. But there's al-l- kinds of
opportunities and much more cleaner ways of getting extra
megawatts than going down the path of dirty coal.
O. So Ird just invite you, if you haven't already,
to participate in the j-ntegrated resource planning process,
because I feel- you mi-ght have something to add.
A. I probably do since f'm a planner.
a. Thank you for your testimony; appreciate it.
A. Okay, thank you.
(The witness left the stand. )
COMMISSIONER SMITH: John Weber.
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JOHN WEBER,
appearing as a public witness, being first duly sworn, was
examined and testified as follows:
EXAMINATION
BY MS. SASSER:
O. P1ease state your name and spell your l-ast name
for the record.
A. My namers John Weber, W-E-B-E-R. I reside at
7855 West Hummel Drive in Boise, 83709.
A. And are you an Idaho Power customer?
A. f am.
O. Thank you.
THE WITNESS: We1I, I woul-d like to thank the
Commissj-oners for the opportunity for to give public oral
comment, even though the Commissioners are probably pretty
bored with me giving comment over the last eight years or so.
COMMfSSIONER SMITH: Werre just co1d, werre not
bored.
THE WITNESS: You're cold.
And I have submitted written comment already that
was well-researched and reasoned, and hopefully you've already
read that.
The only reason I dld not think I was going to
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give testimony tonight until- I got my power bill on Friday, and
then I got this neat l-ittle Connections thing that probably all
of Idaho Power customers got and it's "Straight Talk About
Coa1." But, I really didn't think it was that straight tal-k.
I think it was very misleading. And I would reaIly recommend
if the PUC could l-imit the propaganda that fdaho Power gives
its customers, because of its misleading nature. They have
done this before with wind and sol-ar and now with coal.
Just a couple of points and then I ' 11 let other
people speak:
ft says fdaho Power coal resources. They list
Jim BrJ-dger, 70 771 megawatts. Then there's a l-ittle
asterisk by that number that says "Idaho Power's share of
nameplate capacity. "
We11, a lot of customers don't rea11y understand
what nameplate capacity is, so they think, wel-I, we've got to
come up with another 771 megawatts if we shut this thing down.
WeI1, for 2072, they used 499 average megawatt
hours was generated by that plant, not 771,, which is roughly 65
percent of nameplate capacity. So that j-s the amount of
average megawatt hours we need to replace, not 17L.
They have a statement on here that says sol-ar
power cannot provide power around the cl-ock and in all weather,
which is true. This is what I underli-ned: While the
technology has advanced in recent years, the cost, space
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requirements, and lack of adequate storage capacity remains
obstacl-es for large-scafe development.
WeIl, the cost has dropped dramatically. The
cost of solar for peaking plant is less than Langley Gu1ch.
The space requirements, we've got tons of space
f or solar al-I over the p1ace.
And storage is not necessary because j-t doesn't
make power when you don't need it, at night. It only makes
power during peak time.
So I would say that was misleading.
It al-so says under the best choice right now, it
says there is no option right now to reliably and economically
replace the energy we get from coal.
We11, I would disagree with that. I think
there's many different options. Energy efficiency, demand-side
management renewable resources are economic options right now.
Just as an example, I got a new refrigerator and
it uses .085 kilowatt hours a day. My friend's refrj-gerator
uses two kilowatt hours a day. Let's say there's 5001000
refrigerators in Idaho Powerrs service territory. That's
350,000 megawatt hours per year. If you put it on an
average average basj-s like I did with Jim Bridger, it's 39.9
average megawatt hours, which is huge, and that's just one
ref rj-gerator.
LED lights woul-d do about three tj-mes that power
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savlngs.
A1so, they have security through diversity. And
I think that's one of the problems with Idaho Power: They are
very undiverse. They have two basic generation sources: About
42 percent coal and about 50 percent hydro. That's not very
diverse. That's very lopsided. I think we need more
diversity.
And then they talk about planning for the future.
Idaho Power is already plannj-ng for a day when those plants are
no longer running. And then it says "We envision no new coal
resources over the next 20 years. "
So early in the paragraph, they talk about they
are planning for a day when they are not running the coal-
plants, but then they say "We envisj-on no new coal plantsr "
which is totally different. So early in the paragraph they
sdy, you know, we're planning for no coal plants, but then they
say "We envision no new coal- plantsr" which means they sti11
have visions for coal plants.
So I think it's very misleading, and I ask the
PUC Commissioners to l-imit this propaganda that -- because this
directly or j-ndirectly is paid for by the ratepayer.
A VOICE: That's right.
(Applause. )
COMMISSIONER SMfTH: Does that conclude your
statement?
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THE WITNESS: Yes, ma'am.
COMMISSIONER SMITH: Irm not going to give a full
legal opinion now, but the Commission cannot control the
information that the Company puts in its envelope, and that is
at their expense. So my one tip to you is that I found out,
since I pay my bill online, that I never have to click on the
button that leads me to whatever it is they put in the
envelope; therefore, I never see it. Just a tip.
THE WITNESS: I don't think that would be a good
way to understand the Company and the information they're
giving out to people, but I think it's very important to know
how they are communicating, what avenues they are trying to
distribute their propaganda. Thatrs why I don't pay my bill
onliner so I can see this.
COMMISSIONER SMITH: We1l, if you click on the
button you can stil-l see it online, but you can choose whether
you click or not.
And it is a United States Supreme Court case that
keeps the Commission out of the bil1.
THE WITNESS: Is there a way that the Commj-ssion
coul-d all-ow ratepayers to put their own fl-iers in the bills?
COMMISSIONER SMITH: No.
THE WITNESS: Okay.
COMMISSIONER SMITH: Thank you.
THE WITNESS: You're welcome.
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(The witness left the stand. )
COMMISSIONER SMITH: Alan Hausrath.
MR. HAUSRATH: Yes.
ALAN HAUSRATH,
appeari-ng as a public wj-tness, beJ-ng first duly sworn, was
examined and testified as follows:
EXAMINATION
BY MS. SASSER:
O. Good evenj-ng. Can you state your name and spe11
your last name?
A. Yes. I was trying to figure out who I was
addressing here.
Yes, my name is AIan Hausrath, and I'11 spe1l
both since the first one's ambiguous. It's A-L-A-N. Second
name j-s H-A-U-S-R-A-T-H. I l-ive at 7820 North 7th Street, here
in Boise, 83102, and f am an Idaho Power customer.
0. Thank you.
THE WITNESS: Wel-I, good evening, members of the
Idaho Public Utitities Commission. I'd like to thank you very
much for the opportunity to testlfy, and I particularly like to
thank you for having an evening meeting. I realize it's
inconvenient for you, it feel-s bad for some of us, but it gives
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everybody -- most people a chance to come out who want to.
I'm an Idaho Power ratepayer, an Idaho Power
shareholder, an ldahoan, and a father and grandfather, so
have four perspectives on the issue before us.
As a ratepayer, I don't have much to say beyond
arguingwhat's been said already. I agree with those who are
that before ratepayers are charged for this upgrade,
Company shoul-d provide us with a cumulative analysis
the
of
everything that it will cost to keep these plants onl-ine. What
we've got here is an oId jalopy situation and we're being asked
just to replace the shock absorbers. Thank you, John Weber,
for that metaphor. What about the tlres? What about the
engine? What about the power train? There's a lot going on
here. Might very wel-l- turn out to be cheaper to close the
plant, use the existing power surpJ-us to buy time, invest in
sustainables, and demand reduction to meet Idaho's long-term
energy future.
As a sharehol-der, I agree with Mr. Landry's
frustration with upper management. Coal is a nineteenth
century technology, but we're in the twenty-first century but
they're stil-l- forging ahead with it. If management continues
to tie the anchor of coal- to Idaho Power, they certai-nly aren't
going to meet thej-r carbon reduction goals for the future, and
I worry that the company might not be viable in 20 years. But
regrettably, shareholders hire management, at l-east indirectly,
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and we're responsible for the financial decisions that
management makes. So if management goes ahead with this
particular plan, I hope you'1I ask that it be charged to the
Company, to shareholders, not to ratepayers.
As an ldahoan, my concerns have already been wel-I
addressed by Mr. Waterman. I l-ike livi-ng here; f want to keep
it the same.
So f want to speak as a father and a grandfather
on behal-f of my children and my grandchildren, I want them to
inherit a worl-d that wil-l- support them. For that to happen, we
have to sl-ow and eventually turn around the increase of carbon
dioxide in the atmosphere, and to do that we have to stop
burning coal. ft's important, it's requj-red.
So, i-n summary, if Idaho Power chooses to go
ahead with this project, the shareholders should bear the rj-sk.
Ratepayers shouldn't pay until we have a cumul-ative analysis of
everythi-ng that is requj-red. I think we'l1 be shocked by what
it's going to take to keep these plants online.
Thank you very much for the opportunity to
comment.
COMMISSIONER SMITH: Thank you, sir. Letrs see
if there are any questions.
THE WfTNESS: And may I leave a copy of my
complete statement?
COMMISSIONER SMITH: It would be very much
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appreciated to give that to the court reporter. Thank you very
much.
THE WITNESS: You're welcome.
COMMISSIONER SMITH: Any questions?
We appreciate your attendance tonight.
THE WITNESS: Thank you.
COMMISSIONER SMITH: David Monsees.
(The witness left the stand. )
DAVID MONSEES,
appearing as a public witness, being first duly sworn, was
examined and testified as follows:
THE WITNESS: My name is David Monsees. That's
M-O-N-S-E-E-S. I l-ive at 1,347 Parkhill Drive in Boise, 83702,
and I share the el-ectric bill with my partner, Caroline Morris.
COMMISSIONER SMITH: Thank you.
THE WITNESS: f will- abbreviate my three-page
and
COMMISSIONER SMITH: Which, if you have written
out, you can leave with the court reporter.
THE WITNESS: I will- do so.
COMMISSIONER SMITH: Thank you.
THE WITNESS: The issue of globa1 warming and
cl-imate change, even LaMont Keen no longer tal-ks about being
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agnostic about
Lou Landry that
here, and that
this issue, which is a miracle. I agree with
it's senior management that is our problem
fdaho Power down in the trenches does some many
fine things. The problem is Idaho Power executives have no
problem presenting us with a false emergency that they are
using to pressure the PUC for an early decision. They have no
problem with saddling the ratepayers with costs they have not
totally revealed for the aging Bridger facilities. They have
no problem with releasing a distorted integrated resource plan
report which shows coal to be the cheapest alternative. A11 of
thej-r estimates on costs of coa1, 9ds, solar, they don't
provide the raw basic data and don't explain what their
inferences are in that report, so they can come up with any
kind of fj-gure you want that they want. Their corporate
mantra is profj-t and mai-ntaining the value of their
investments. Their moral guide is a value of corporate stock
for their sharehol-ders and themselves since they receive
handsome stock bonuses each year.
No one has deal-t with the issue of smaII
increases j-n average annual temperature have major conseguences
for weather extremes. And in addition to the dlrect costs to
health and to the environment around us, look at what happened
in the Philippines, in Louisiana, New York City, Oklahoma,
.Tapan, and elsewhere. The Philippines tornado covered an area
as large as the entire 48 states. Based on 2009 date, the UNrs
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intergovernmental panel on climate change stated that we
already spent over half the total- carbon al-l-otment set to avoid
the worst potential impacts of climate change. That estimate
was flawed i-n that it did not include Arctic data which was
incomplete at the time. They have now done sampling of the
Arctic warming and it has shown that the g1oba1 warming is
happening faster than they thought. Now just wait untj-I we get
to our own catastrophe.
Irve been on a number of panels and attended a
number of meetings of planning improvements and hiking trails,
Boise River, other things we enjoy which can be destroyed by
one major flood. Homes and businesses wil-l be destroyed,
people will die here as have died elsewhere. Adding another
dam wj-I1 not prevent a major snowfall fol-l-owed by rapid
warming. Lesser versions have happened already. At a minimum,
a major flood catastrophe is very 1ikely to happen to our
chil-dren, our grandchildren, if not us. The flood risk of a
couple decades ago j-s not today or tomorrow's fl-ood risk, just
as today's fire risk is no longer the same.
Idaho Power executives aren't the only ones to
bIame. We have been negligent in not raising our voices and
negligent in not recognizing the probl-em until- so l-ate in the
game. We're at fault for excessive energy use and our waste of
water, delivered by serious energy expenditures. However,
Idaho Power is also culpable by trying to kj-II the net metering
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and demand response programs.
PUC Staffers have looked and made good
suggestions at the plan that's being presented to us tonight,
but they have not questioned Idaho Power's cal-cul-ations that
coal is better. And this is not time for complacency. BLind
trust is not acceptable. Development of energy efflciency
plans and sustaj-nabl-e energy options is a viabl-e alternative
during the time period that would be allotted for
decommissioning or conversion to gas.
We l-ive in an era of spin. Lj-sa Growrs testimony
to the PUC and her carefully-crafted Reader's View that
recently appeared in The Statesman would have us believe that
Idaho Power will recover the cost of the mandatory upgrades,
quotesr ds long as they are determined to be in our customersl
best interest.
Idaho Power wou1d never admit upgrades are not to
their ratepayers' best interest. The terms are subjective and
vague, and it's doubtful- a challenge would be upheld in court,
and they know that. The fact remains the aged plant cannot
continue for many more years without yet more patches. And
people have already mentioned the new regs that are coming down
the road. How many more
expected from this toxic
for PUC action refers to,
coal--fired generation in
years of useful life can really be
asset? The fact remains the request
quotes, the uncertainty surrounding
today's political and social
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environment. This is not grounds for ratemakj-ng treatment
under Idaho Code 61-541.
Furthermore, theyrre askJ-ng to place al-l- rj-sk on
the ratepayers. Idaho Power has already been denied requested
cost recovery for Bridger by the Oregon PUC for the rlsk to
which they subject their ratepayers. Why hasn't Idaho Power
responded to the Oregon PUC request that evaluate the costs of
decommissionj-ng Bridger? They are afraj-d to do it. And as
as has been mentioned in thej-r last shareholders' meeting, they
consider the ten percent that they have to deal with in Oregon
is essentially like chump change.
Never has Idaho Power discussed the true cost to
us taxpayers of medical costs and envj-ronmental- remediation and
loss to businesses due to the burning of coa1. We can't count
on our gridlocked politicians to come to our he1p. The crisis
is upon us. Itrs too .l-ate for the political system to correct
itself in time to do what is necessary. We canrt be Pollyanna
about this. The only group we can count on to do the right
thing by thoroughly and openly assessing what is to be done in
Idaho is the PUC.
Idaho Power already has blood on its hands for
its share of the many hundreds of thousands of deaths and
damage occurring through disease and disasters. If we
willingly permit the continued reliance on fossil fuelsr w€
will have to accept that blame as well because we didn't stop
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HEDRICK COURT REPORTING
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Public
it. I think you will only be spending good money after bad if
you let them commit us to coal power, which will go for decades
in the future. Once the door is open, they will- use it.
Thank you.
COMMISSIONER SMITH: Thank you. Letrs see if
there are any quest j-ons.
Seeing noner w€ appreciate your time.
THE WITNESS: Thank you.
(The witness left the stand. )
COMMISSIONER SMITH: Mary McGown.
MARY McGOWN,
appearing as a public witness, being first duly sworn, was
exami-ned and testified as fol-lows:
THE WITNESS: My name is Mary McGown, M-C,
capital G-O-W-N, and my residential address j-s 282 South Mobley
Lane, Boise, 83712. And I am an Idaho Power customer.
So, thank you, Commissioners, for the opportunity
to say a few words. I'm here representing the League of latromen
Voters of ldaho, and we request that you deny the application
of Idaho Power Company to spend $130 million on catalytic
control-s for the coal-fired electricity plants Jim Bridger 3
and 4.
The inversion is getting to me today.
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HEDRICK COURT REPORTING
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Public
The League of Women Voters of Idaho is a
statewide nonpartisan organi-zation that studj-es an issue and
comes to consensus before adoptj-ng a position. The state
league and the national- organization have adopted positj-ons
that support policy, legislatJ-on, regulation, and funding to
obtaj-n clean air standards, reduce greenhouse gas emissions,
and j-ncrease energy efficiency and rel-iance on renewable energy
resources.
Allowing Idaho Power Company to sink money into
obsolete, pollutj-ng power plants is in dj-rect opposition to all
of the informed positj-ons the league has developed related to
air quali-ty, energy production, climate change. The Pub1ic
Util-ities Commission is in the positj-on of forcing the Company
to do what it should be moving toward of its own accord.
Deny the application to waste ratepayer and
investor funds on a technol-ogy of the past and the Company wil-l-
have to start preparing for more sustainable energy generation
for the future.
Excuse me.
We believe defending l-ow-cost power today, if
generated by coal-, adds to the long-term costs that wil-l- be
faced by future generations. The externalities of a decision
to put money into the coal- plants must be considered. We
should be recognizing and paying the true costs of power
generation and use.
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HEDRICK COURT REPORTING
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EAUC]
Public
Thank you.
COMMISSIONER SMITH: Thank you, Ms. McGown.
Let's see if there are questions.
Seeing none, we appreciate your attendance
tonight.
Joani-e Fauci.
(The witness l-eft the stand.)
JOANTE FAUC],
appearing as a public witness, being first duly sworn, was
examined and testif ied as fol]ows:
EXAMINATION
BY MS. SASSER:
O. Good evening. Please state your name and spe1l
your last name for the record.
A. ,Joanie Eauci, F-A-U-C-I, at 2944 Hillway Drj-ve,
Boise, 83702. And I am an Idaho Power customer.
O. Thank you.
THE VIITNESS: I wish to thank the Commissioners
for holding this public hearing and considering the public's
views.
I have to admit that where our power came from
was not something I used to worry about, but for the past year
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FAUCI
PubIic
or two I I ve learned that Idaho Power uses coal to satisfy over
40 percent of our energy needs. Forty percent. I thought
West Virginia and the Navajo reservation were the only places
stil-1 using coal-.
I want to point out that some of the publicity
around coal use comes from Idaho Power itself, so at l-east they
are being open about its use. But since coal is being used to
provide power to me, I am part of the problem. I'd rather be
part of the solution. I have since started educating myself
about power.
Todayrs hearing is about whether Idaho Power can
enter into a binding ratemakj-ng treatment of reducj-ng their own
risk while saddlj-ng us ratepayers with $1-B mil-l-ion in coal
plant upgrades for the next 20 years. I truly feel that the
PUC should not aLl-ow this. The time is now to start moving
away from coal,, not adding more debt to an aging system.
Rather than upgrading the .Iim Bridger plant and subsequent
ones, fdaho Power shou1d work with the relevant agencies to
decommission these plants early and use the money j-nstead to
build or do research in some of the newer, cleaner
technologies. The Boardman coal plant in Oregon has done this,
the Reid Gardner plant in Nevada has done this. There are
others.
In 1931, Thomas Edison stated, "I hope we don't
wai-t until we run out of coal- and oil- before we find an
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HEDRICK COURT REPORT]NG
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EAUCI
PubLic
al-ternative energy source. "
The sixth power plan for Bonnevj-l-le Power
Administration, done by Northwest Power and Conservation
Council, has found that they can cover 85 percent of new energy
needs for the next 20 years just through efficiency and
conservation methods. fdaho Power did not even consider
efficiency and conservation when determining their need to
stick wj-th coal-. They only considered coal and gas. There are
other options.
The current regulatory structure directs
utilities to provide l-ow-cost energy at a rate that covers the
cost of their investments plus a reasonable return. This gives
utilities every incentj-ve to buil-d more infrastructure and sel-1
more power. Upgrading the .lim Bridger plant will add more debt
to Idaho Power's investment, which, in turn, will- be passed on
to the consumer. We need to change the regulatory structure.
Maybe low-cost power should not be part of the equatl-on. Maybe
makj-ng money for sharehol-ders should not be part of the
equatJ-on. Twenty years dgo, who would have thought we'd give
up our land1ines for cel-l phones? It's time for change.
Utilities need to embrace new business models that incorporate
distributed resource inputs and demand side or demand response
outputs.
More and more homes and businesses are putting
sol-ar on rooftops. Among other benefits, this helps with
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HEDRICK COURT REPORT]NG
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EAUCI
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cooling needs in the summer and lessens the need for huge new
transmission 1ines. Technological improvements in smart
metering no longer force forces peak power prices to be
averaged out and passed on to consumers equally. Appliances
and even whol-e homes are now becoming smart enough to
comrnunicate with transmission sources. Smart grid technology
has so much potential. Rather than being delivery providers,
maybe our util-ities can change and become energy service
managers that would have to platform, be the traffic cop, and
maintain the trading fl-oor of providing energy.
The solution is to come up with other ways for
utilities to make money. The PUC must give utllities leeway to
experiment and innovate. Other states and cities are already
doing this. We may not have to reinvent the wheel. ,Just look
around, investj-gate sol-utions that work elsewhere, and make
changes that will- work here.
These are some of the issues I have learned by my
research. I hope the Idaho Public Utilities Commission can
help ldaho Power and other util-ities move forward into a
cleaner, leaner industry.
I want to thank the Commissloners again for
hearing public testimony.
COMMISSIONER SMITH: Thank you. Letrs see if
there are any questions.
Appreci-ate your time.
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HEDRICK COURT REPORTING
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SANDBERG
Publi-c
THE WITNESS: Thanks.
(The witness left the stand. )
COMMISSIONER SMITH: Robert Sandberg.
ROBERT SANDBERG,
appearing as a public witness, being first duly sworn, was
examined and testified as follows:
EXAMTNATION
BY MS. SASSER:
O. Pl-ease state your name and spe11 your last name
for the record.
A. Robert Sandberg, S-A-N-D-B-E-R-G. My address
is 918 Haines, H-A-I-N-E-S, in Boise, 83712. And I am a
ratepayer of Idaho Power.
O. Thank you.
THE WITNESS: Thank you so much for your patience
tonJ-ght and for hearing our test j-monies. It's with great
appreciation that I come here tonight.
I come as a project management professj-onaI,
trained many, many years, and look upon this entire procedure
as a project manager. I won't go into great detail- as others
have before, but I want to give some broad strokes if I cou1d.
I look on project management currently, if I
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HEDRICK COURT REPORTTNG
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coul-d draw an analogy, as a compass, north, south, east, west:
North being nature; south, socj-ety; east, economics; and west,
well-being. Projects j-n my profession have to answer to all of
these. There has to be a bal-ance between the four points of
the compass. And so my remarks, although brief, will address
those four points.
f have attended the IRP presentation and f have
gone through the IRP myself.
I'd like to start in the east with economics.
Coal and coal--powered -- coal-powered plants are much too
costly. There are hidden costs that aren't even addressed by
utility companies in upgrades, the health costs to people, the
damages created. So whatever economic statements are made
aren't with fu11 di-sclosure.
Carbon tax is coming. Carbon tax wil-1 make coal
much more expensive than it is, and rightfully so. I l-ike to
read, if I couId, a brief statement recently, in June of this
year, from the George W. Bush Institute regarding carbon tax,
saying:
Sti11, it wou1d be worth it because, ultimately,
using a carbon tax rather than a wel-ter of command and control
regulatlons dictated by the EPA woul-d resul-t in a much more
market-friendly outcome. If done correctly, it might also have
the ancillary benefit of providing a boost for tax reform,
which is currentl-y standing on weak legs. A carbon tax coul-d
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HEDRICK COURT REPORTING
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Public
be used to reduce the corporate income tax, taxes on dividends
or capital gains, ox any other tax more pernicj-ous to economic
growth than on carbon.
And then it goes on at the end to say that: But
it is time for Republicans to realize that the war over clj-mate
change is over, sue for peace, and get the best terms possible.
Such a source was surprising to me, but it really
affirms the reality of carbon tax and the unstated economics of
using carbon fuel.
The old model of centralized producti-on of power
is no longer vlable. Those companies unwilling to adapt and
we have seen this in Europe particularly -- have gone bankrupt.
Economically, it is not a modeL that j-s sustalnable. Idaho
Power is asking for a continuatlon of large, outdated coal
power plants that can't compete. Many other people have spoken
about this before.
Mr. Waterman mentioned Exce1 Energy. And I wou1d
mention that Boul-der, Colorado, raised its voice and said
instead of having a investor-owned utility, they would have a
municipal utility instead. PG&E in Cal-ifornia is much more
responsive to their clientel-e with energy efficiencies and
their adoption of renewable energy. Duke Energy, for example,
al-so is eliminating its coal-powered plants.
The economics then, the east with this p1an, is
not viable.
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HEDRICK COURTP. O. BOX 578,
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SANDBERG
Public
I go to the north, to nature, if I could. Nature
has suffered tremendously. Coal-powered plants are the single
largest contrj-butor of CO2 in the worl-d. ft's indisputed.
Climate change is now accepted as fact. CoaI-powered plants
addressed here, if our figures from the recent information from
Idaho Power is true, Jim Bridger is 771- megawatts; North Va1my,
284 megawatts; Boardman 64 megawatts. This translates, if you
wj-Il, each day Bridger contributes 3,708,000 pounds of CO2;
North Va]my, L,362 excuse me, 113631000 and change; and
Boardman, 30,000 pounds of CO2 each day. This is tremendously
dangerous to the environment, to nature.
And it should be noted, by the way, that in L994,
Idaho Power embraced sol-ar power. I picked up some material at
Boise State Library on a big production that they did with
forwarding solar power but since then which was actually
signed by their CEO at the time, which has since been
rescj-nded. And recently I attended, as I said before, the fRP,
and I woul-d have to agree that their statistics were realIy
bogus on so1ar.
Tf I coul-d go next oh, and also as a project
manager, I am very well aware of the stakeholders i-n any
project and in any large decision. Stakehol-ders in this case
are not just ratepayers or the Company itself or even the
investors. There are many other stakeholders having a stake,
having an effect, by the decisions.
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HEDRICK COURT REPORTING
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SANDBERG
Public
I'm representing here as stakeholders nature, the
animals, the extinction of animals that are going on, and many
people have mentioned the i1l effects of coal, but al-so the
unborn generations to come. What are we doing here? Why are
we doing this? The coal plants donrt just affect Idaho. The
CO2 is everywhere. It's a thin layer of air around the earth
that j-s every -- goes everywhere. We all- breathe this and
we're all contrlbuting to this. So nature is the second part.
South wou1d be society. And, again, the remote
locations, even if it's in Wyoming, the air is stilI here. The
aj-r from other coal power plants contribute so much CO2 and
there's no real- escape from it. We've seen the greenhouse
effect, the different storms. Al-l- of us, all of us
stakeholders, share the same air. It's just not fair to even
ask to have a continuation of coal.
Fina1Iy, the west is well-bej-ng. Our well-being
is threatened by the continual use of carbon fueIs. To have
coal-powered plants gives us heal-th concerns that we shoul-dn't
be having, asthma and other kinds of thi-ngs like crop failures,
drought, and flooding, and increased natural disasters. ft i-s
harmful to our well-being.
So I presented, if you'11 pardon the analogy, the
"Compass of Sustainabili-ty" is what j-trs ca11ed, and the
decision to accept the proposal by Idaho Power is rea11y
unacceptable on al-1 f our f ronts.
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HEDRTCK COURT REPORTING
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WARDVIELL
PubIic
So I just wanted to thank everybody who's made
comments and I don't want to belabor other things, and I thank
you for your time.
COMMISSIONER SMITH: Okay, Mr. Sandberg. Let's
see if there are questions.
No. AIl right, thank you, sir.
(The witness l-eft the stand.)
COMMISSIONER SMITH: Ed Wardwe11.
ED WARDWELL,
appearing as a public witness, being first duly sworn, was
examined and testif ied as fol-l-ows:
THE WITNESS: My name is Ed Wardwell. Thatrs
W-A-R-D-W-E-L-L. I reside at 73268 Dechambeau htray, and j-t's in
Boise, 837L4. And I guess I'm a customer of Idaho Power.
As a former educator in hlstory, I went back to
l-ook at some of the history of some older PUC decisions and
l-ooked back at
And, PUC, I thank you for allowing us to speak.
I think of the chance that we have to really put the brakes on
this or to stop somethj-ng that we all think is wrong, a unique
privilege in America that the Chinese don't have. But we canrt
contro.l- Chi-na. We can only control- ourselves, and I hope that
we'II do that.
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HEDRTCK COURTP. O. BOX 578,
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WARDWELL
Public
PUC has often given a rea1Iy good directj-on to
Idaho Power and Idaho Power has had ample time to move
seriously towards conservation, but they haven't. It was in
,January t9- January 27, 1989, in Case U-1500-165, dD order
from the PUC, No. 22299, that said, quote: Avoiding peak power
capacity load or annual energy load has at least the equivalent
effect of system reliabilj-ty, of adding generating resources of
the same size reliability.
So unlike Mrs. Grow, or Ms. Grow, we t re not
falling off a cliff, and putting good money after bad choices
is not a glide path out of coa1.
That same order said, and I ' l-l- quote again if I
may: Because conservation almost always reduces and
distributes system l-oads, most parties consj-der reliability
effects of conservation superior to those generatlng resources.
End of quote.
And then in her article, the opj-nion that she
ta1ked about too that sol-ar output was low in the summer, and
the opposite j-s true.
On that same order, oD page 19, it said: In the
future rate cases, we will take the PUC in future rate
casesr w€ will take into account the Util-ity's commitment to
energy conservation in determining the al-l-owed rate of return.
A Util-ity that aggressively addresses the issues, concerns
found in thls order, all other things being equalr may expect
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WARDWELL
Public
an allowance of higher return than might otherwise be allowed
So for sharehol-ders, if they work towards
conservation, they could get even a higher return to Idaho
Power. So, you know, I think this is ample time sj-nce 1989
that fdaho Power has a chance to invest in conservation and get
a higher return, yet they have chosen not to. And as a
teacher, you know, we tel-l- our kids, you know, you've got to
make your you know, you lie in bed with -- whatever. You
get what you deserve.
I agree with the others on al-l of these things
and reaIly just stress that Idaho Power has been goj-ng the
wrong direction. Gl-ad to see in '94 that they were wanting to
have interest j-n sol-ar, and now, of course, they've tried to
nix it with the thing that they tried to do on net solar, net
metering. And thanks to the PUC for stopping that nonsense.
But and look at, you know, polling across the
country. I mean, majority of the country, climate change is
the problem, you've got to get out of coal-. Great people at
Idaho Power working hard, trying to de1iver energy to us
24/7/365 as we've heard, yet it's the upper echelon that is
holding us back.
And I find this in the politics too. And I don't
know what other forces are at work here, but recently I found a
letter from -- Governor Otter wrote to the Presidential Task
Eorce on C1imate Change on .Iuly 25th this year, and he, quote:
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HEDRICK COURT REPORTING
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WARDWELL
PubIic
The extent to whj-ch carbon emissj-ons play
change is sti1l debatabl-e.
a rol-e in climate
Unfortunately for fdaho, the governor is gravely
mistaken. 97.1 percent of al1 the science papers investigating
cl-imate change endorse the consensus that humans are causing
cl,imate change and its disruption of our way of l-ife as we know
it. The 95 percent consensus is the gold standard for taking
action. That same percentage was what was needed to point out
that smoking was causing cancer. We have a higher percentage
about cl-imate change than there was about smoking.
Something was addressed about the hidden costs
someone else mentioned, and I donrt know if the PUC has the
power to order Idaho Power to get an outsi-de, independent
accounting source so we get instead of getting bogus numbers
from them, we get a true picture of the hidden costs from coal-.
And then if you add that to the current cost, then you'll see
that alternative energy and conservation real-Iy is cheaper.
And thatrs if you can do thatr w€'d all appreciate that.
And then as Mr. Heckler pointed out, you know,
they are kind of got us in a blackmail positi-on, you know.
They're saying that werre going to be cut off or there's going
to be some dire problem to rel-iability of energy if something
is not done. But I think if Idaho Power is forced to really go
headlong, imagi-ne an about turn, that they go into
conservation, they rea11y take up the kinds of al-ternative
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HEDRICK COURT REPORTING
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RICHARDSON
PubIic
energies that others are doing around the country as has been
pointed out, that they coul-d be in a good negotiating position
to forestall any reduction in power while we're implementing
some reaIly good alternatj-ve energy and conservation measures.
So, I'l-I submit my papers to the court reporter
for their entirety, and I appreciate the opportunity to speak
about this. And thatrs all- I have.
COMMfSSIONER SMITH: Thank you.
Are there any questions?
Thank you very much, sir.
THE WITNESS: Thank you.
(The witness l-eft the stand.)
COMMISSIONER SMITH: Michael Richardson.
MICHAEL RICHARDSON,
appearing as a public witness, being first duly sworn, was
examined and testified as follows:
THE VIITNESS: Name is Michael Richardson,
R-I-C-H-A-R-D-S-O-N, and I 1j-ve at 611 North Haines in Boise.
And I'm an Idaho Power customer as well-.
A11 my remarks have been covered so I made up
some new remarks inspired by the shirt that this fellow back
here j-s wearing of some anglers and trout, and it's I think
it's reaI1y important to poi-nt out that ldaho is experiencing
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HEDRICK COURT REPORT]NG
P. O. BOX 578, BQTSE, rD
RICHARDSON
Publ-ic
climate change as we speak. It's not just in the future. It's
happening. It's happening now.
I'm -- I'm just sort of a wing nut, amateur
thinker on these matters, and -- but Irve decided that f'm
going to try to organize some Idaho scj-entists in the spring to
present their work to people in Idaho, because I think the
science is often just missing somewhere in the process and we
take a lot of things for granted. I know people often just
discuss climate change without some basics in hand.
And one thing I wanted to point out is that CO2
behaves the reason werre so concerned about CO2 is because
in the air, CO2 absorbs infrared Iight. So light comes down
from the sun and it bounces off the earth, and then any CO2 in
the air absorbs the energy in i-nfrared light, rea1Iy the same
way that water in your mj-crowave absorbs the energy of
microwaves. It's just a different frequency. So it's kind of
l-ike humming along -- if you hum al-ong the side of a glass a
wine glass or something you can get it to hum at a certain
frequency, and that's what CO2 is doing.
So trout live in Idaho and it's reaIly worth
remembering that fish are naked and they don't have sweaters
they can take off. And itrs getting warmer in the rivers in
Idaho. So Irve just been reading papers
scientists in the US Eorest Service have
that some of the
been doing about
like to 1ay eggs inIooking at trout in Idaho. And so trout
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HEDRICK COURT REPORTING
P. O. BOX 578, BOTSE, rD
RICHARDSON
Public
the sort of upper parts of a l-ot of rivers and they like it
rea1ly col-d, so trout rea1ly have a certain temperature
gradient at which they can lay eggs. And because the
temperatures are getting warmer in the waters because there's
just more radiant energy comi-ng down, the egg-laying
territories of the fish are decreasing.
So you can look at these maps, that sort of
viable fish egg-laying terrJ-tories in Idaho, and it starts out,
you know, ten years ago being a pretty extensive network of
litt1e fingers of trout egg "Iayabilityr " you might say. And
because CO2 j-s so predictable in its behavior in the
atmosphere, it's pretty easy to determj-ne what a possible
temperature 1s going to be in the atmosphere and how that is
going to affect rj-ver temperatures. And basj-cally you can just
predict that the viable places where trout can lay eggs are
just going to go back and -- but they can only go back so far
because they're just going into the shade, rj-ght, because they
go lower in altitude and then the area is just still- too warm.
So the pockets of where fishing can Iay eggs are kind of
shrinking back from the high altitudes and then it's kind of
hiding out in these little pockets.
So think about trout and how important trout are
to Idaho in so many ways. Trout are sort of l-j-ke, you know, if
we didn't have our trout in Idaho, it would be I'm not an
angler, I'm just thinking about this naked fish out there.
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HEDRICK COURT REPORTING
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RICHARDSON
Public
And, I mean, I'd love to get out there, always been meaning to
take a fesson in f1y fishing. But itrs a big deal. And
there's a l-ot of studies l-ike that. I'm not going to go on and
on.
But T, as a ratepayer, customer of Idaho Power,
I'm very grateful for the decision that the PUC made, by the
wdy, earlier this year, because it gave me the green light to
go ahead and put solar panels on my roof and know that I wasn't
going to be flushing my money down the drain. But what it sort
of told me is that Irm wil-Iing to spend a 1ot more money as a
customer. And I'm not going to ask for a show of hands, but
I'm wj-lIing to bet that a lot of people in this room are
willing to pay more money for thej-r power, knowing that the
sources of that energy is cl-eaner, you know, reasonable,
conrmonsense forms of energy here, like we're saying, in the
twenty-first century.
So Irm going to borrow $15r000 against my house
to put solar panels on my house, and f I 11 probably end up
paying about 100 bucks a month to pay for those sofar panels
and then not get a bill-, basically, from Idaho Power. So it's
going to pretty much double my -- you know, we have a small
pretty smaIl house, but it's going to doubl-e our essentially
what wetre going to pay for power, but I'm willJ-ng to do that
because I feel like there has to be a premj-um put on cl-ean
energy and it's just worth it.
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HEDRICK COURT REPORTING
P. O. BOX 578, BOTSE, rD
CONLEY
Public
So I think from a busj-ness standpoint, the idea
that we always want to that we have to keep costs Iow I
think is wrong. We should raj-se energy costs, but those
ratepayer energy increases should -- should not be to pay to
put 31 000 tons of CO2 into the atmosphere every hour, because
the Jim Bridger plant burns 1,100 tons of coal- every hour.
So thatrs al-I I have to say. Thank you.
COMMISSIONER SMITH: Thank you very much. Letrs
see if there are questions.
We appreciate your time.
(The witness left the stand. )
COMMISSIONER SMITH: Morty Preesament (phonetic),
Presament (phonetic). Did I say that correctly?
Morty Prisament, on North 2Oth.
How about Pam Conley.
PAM CONLEY,
appearing as a public witness, being fj-rst duly sworn, was
examined and testif ied as fol-lows:
THE WITNESS: My name is Pam Conley, C-O-N-L-E-Y,
and I live at 9L7 West Highland View Drive, Boise, 83702.
Thank you for giving us this opportunity to
comment.
As a ratepayer, mother, and birder, f am
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HEDRTCK COURT REPORT]NGP. O. BOX 578, BOTSE, rD
CONLEY
Public
concerned about the continued use of coal as a source of
electricity, its impacts on the environment, and my having to
pay for its use.
Climate change is here and the time to address it
is now. Coal is a dirty source of fuel and it should be made
to pay for all of the carbon dioxide it emits, and if that were
true then it would no longer be cl-assified as a l-ow-cost fuel,
as Idaho Power likes to cal-I it.
There is a significant chance that EPA wil-I be
putting out regulations in the next couple of years that will
force Idaho Power to deal with this problem. For that reason,
fdaho Power shoul-d work towards shutting down its coal plants
now or in the near future, rather than spending $130 million to
keep them going.
In Idaho Powerrs analysis, which they cal-l the
"coal studyr " where they were trying to figure out, you know,
what they were going to do should they retrofit, should they
do this or that that plan did not look at all at renewabl-es
or conservation. All it looked at was basically coal and gas.
I think thatrs a reaIly big problem. We donrt know if
conservatj-on would have been a better option, because they
didn't look at it.
If Idaho Power
in the coal plants make good
take the risk wi-th their own
believes that investing more money
busj-ness sense, then they should
money without the use of a CPCN
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HEDRTCK COURT REPORT]NGP. O. BOX 578, BOTSE, rD
CONLEY
Publ-ic
and binding ratemaking treatment. I don't think ratepayers
shoul-d pay for any more investments in coal plants. As a
ratepayer, I do not want to be Iiable for this investment,
especially if it turns out it would have been cheaper to shut
the coal plants down in the first pIace.
And then I go on in that sentence there. You get
the point.
Anyway, so as a ratepayer, a mother, a birder,
Irm concerned with coal's contributj-ons to cl-imate change, and
its future as a low-cost fuel- is probably coming to an end.
And in my mj-nd it's already here, we just donrt know all the
true costs. I request that you deny Idaho Power's request for
the CPCN and the binding ratemakj-ng treatment in their plans
for the Jim Bridger plant.
COMMISSIONER SMITH: Thank you. Letrs see if
there are questions.
No questions. Appreciate your time.
THE WITNESS: Yeah, thanks.
(The witness left the stand. )
COMMfSSIONER SMITH: Dave Ransom.
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HEDRICK COURT REPORTING
P. O. BOX 578, BOTSE, fD
RANSOMPublic
DAVID RANSOM,
appearing as a public witness, being first duly sworn, was
examined and testified as follows:
EXAMINATION
BY MS. SASSER:
A. My name is David Ransom, R-A-N-S-O-M. I live at
3525 South Norfolk Way in Boise.
A. And are you a customer of Idaho Power?
A. I am a customer, y€s.
a. Thank you.
THE WITNESS: I'd like to thank the PUC for
asking all of us for input today. I think there's been
excel-l-ent some woul-d cal-I it testJ-mony, but as one point
person pointed out, I think if f were your I'd look at this
more as a direction and it's been a resounding, uniform
response with one answer. And sj-nce you are a public utility,
I woul-d look at that as direction and compare that to an
applJ-cation from a private company.
I want to offer just one comment about this
Reader's View article that a couple other people had addressed.
It was written by Lisa Grow, the Idaho Power senior vice
president of power supply. And I just want to tal-k about one
point that was made and also comment that. f thought that this
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HEDRICK COURT REPORTING
P. O. BOX 578, BOTSE, rD
RANSOM
Public
was very well written. I think it was wordsmithed, and I think
that the spin doctors had input on this.
It talks about a study that they did comparing
alternat j-ves. Itrs a littl-e confusing as to how many
alternatives they looked at. But at the end of the paragraph
address j-ng the study, it says:
The conclusion: Keeping coal online is the best
option for our customers right now.
And if I were editing this, I think I would put a
qualifier on that statement, and it would read like this:
Keeping coal online is the best option for our customers right
now, unless the customers are against the use of coal.
And the answer is obvious. And I hope you
consider this strongly and do not approve; or if you have to
approve this application because you have to keep the switch on
and electricity, do it with modifj-cations and stipulations so
that it can be changed and addressed as things progress in the
near term.
And that's al-l- I have to say.
COMMISSfONER SMITH: Okay, thank you. Appreciate
your thoughtful comments.
Any questions?
(The witness l-eft the stand.)
COMMISSIONER SMITH: Tim Andreae. Did I get that
right?
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HEDRICK COURT REPORT]NG
P. O. BOX 578, BOTSE, rD
ANDREAE
Public
TIM ANDREAE,
appearing as a public witness, being first duly sworn, was
examined and testified as follows:
THE WITNESS: I'm Tim Andreae.
A-N-D-R-E-A-8. And I am a ratepayer.
My last name is
EXAMINATION
BY MS. SASSER:
a.
A.
0.
to repeat,
that have
monumental
Could you state your address for the record?
Oh, yeah. Itrs 403 O'Farre11 Street.
Thank you.
THE WITNESS: And I -- if there was ever a time
f feel like this is not a bad time to echo things
been said, because it feels like a rea11y huge,
time.
I think Idaho Power has got to know that spending
$130 mj-llion to retrofit the Jim Bridger plant is not going to
look good, and they're going to do their best they can to make
it look as appetizing as possible. And it seems pretty clear
that the way to do that is to make it turn what they rea11y
need to spend to keep their coal plant running into very sma11
bites, and 1t seems pretty obvious that this is just the first
very small bite in a whole chain of bites of $120 million or
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HEDRICK COURT
P. O. BOX 578,
REPORTING
BOTSE, fD
ANDREAE
Public
however many hundred million dollars in continuous downward
slide into we don't know where, but it doesn't look good.
And so I am not onJ-y a ratepayer but alsor dS a
couple of other people have mentioned, I am also a shareholder,
and I agree with a lot of the comments that have come before,
especj-aI1y that shareholders shou1d be the ones responsibl-e.
They should hold the burden of this.
Not only am I a a sharehol-der, but I'm going
to be a new father in about a sometime i-n the next six
months, and, you know, that gJ-ves me a particular vision, I
feel like, into what you might call business as usuaI, because
business as usual is kind of what we do every day. You know,
we just get in our cars because it's what we do, drive to work.
We come to a hearing. You know, being on the PUC board, you
come to a heari-ng, you're doing your job.
But being at the point of seeing new life come
into the wor1d, I feel Ij-ke it gives me a vision beyond
business as usual, and I feel like thatrs the kj-nd of vision
that I woul-d invite your the board, to bring to this, this
turnJ-ng point rea11y, because it seems that once, you know,
once you take that first step and it's looking 1ike, to
me I'm also a counselor and, you know, I work with addicts,
and thj-s is it's like being an enabler. This is like a
first step towards
Let me put it this way:
455
A company, like a
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HEDRICK COURT REPORTING
P. O. BOX 578, BOTSE, rD
hulking sort of behemoth as Idaho Power is, is going to cling
desperately to what it knows, and so as Mr. Landry mentioned
before, it it doesn't see a way out, but itrs you know,
and so it doesn't see a way into the future. Itrs going to
cling to what is easy for it to do, and it i-s up to a
regulating body such as the PUC board to put obstacles and put
its foot down at an opportune moment such as this to avoid what
looks like a rea1ly bad business decision, economically, and
al-so a decision that is just more cost, is extremely costly.
It seems, to me, that once the first step i-s taken down this
path, it's a l-ot easier to spend more -- more and more money to
keep the coaf plants running.
So just want to emphasize thj-s moment and the
importance of it. Thanks a lot.
COMMISSIONER SMITH: Appreciate your comments.
Are there any questions?
Thank you, sir.
(The witness left the stand. )
COMMISSIONER SMITH: That is the end of the
people who have signed up to testify, and so we are at the
concl-usion unless there is anyone in the audience who believes
there is something that has not yet been said and woul-d like to
come forward.
All right, then we are
Yes, ma t am.
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HEDRICK COURT REPORTINGP. O. BOX 578, BOTSE, rD
A VOICE: f need to know the V[eb site i-n case
I want to submit something before noon.
COMMISSIONER SMITH: I think Mr. Fadness can help
you with that.
As I said earlier, this is the final step in the
Commj-ssion's process of considering this application, and as
you know, the Company has requested an order within f think the
next week. So we will do our best to consj-der this carefully
and to get them our decision as quickly as possible, which
means that those intending to submit onl-ine need to do that
tomorrow morning. The record in this case will close at noon
tomorrow, and that means that the Commission will consider what
has been placed before us prior to that time, and that
j-nformation that comes later may not be considered because we
may already be too far in our decision process.
So f personally and I think all of us want to
thank al-I of you for spending your valuable time with us to
give us your thoughts and opinions. The Commission has, for my
entire tenure here, which is decades, sought to get the most
public involvement it could because, frankly, we do this
because we believe it's very important for the people of our
state, and we want to do a good job.
So we do appreciate all of your thoughts and
comments, and we will- thank you for being here, and thank
Wendy, and we will cl-ose the record at noon tomorrow. And the
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hearing is adjourned.
(The hearing adjourned at 9:27 p.m. )
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HEDRICK COURT REPORTINGP. O. BOX 578, BOTSE, rD
AUTHENTICATION
This is to certify that the foregoing j-s a
true and correct transcript to the best of my ability of the
proceedings held in the matter of Idaho Power Company's
application for a certificate of publj-c convenience and
necessity for the investment in sel-ective catalytj-c reduction
control-s on Jim Bridger Units 3 and 4, Case No. IPC-E-13-16,
commencing on Monday, November 25, 20L3, dt the Commission
Hearing Room, 472 West Washington, Boise, Idaho, and the
originals thereof for the file of the Commission.
WENDY J. MURRAY otate Publ-iEin and for the of fdaho,residing at Meridian, Idaho.
My Commission expires 2-8-20L4.
Idaho CSR No. 475
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AUTHENTICATION