20130327Prehearing Transcript.pdf

ORIGINAL
7I?NAR27 Pr 2:07
BEFORE THE IDAHO PUBLIC UTILITIES COMMISSION
JTILFHS
IN THE MATTER OF IDAHO POWER ) CASE NO.
COMPANY'S APPLICATION FOR ) IPC-E-12-27
AUTHORITY TO MODIFY ITS NET
METERING SERVICE AND TO INCREASE ) PREHEARING
THE GENERATION CAPACITY LIMIT ) CONFERENCE
HEARING BEFORE
COMMISSIONER MARSHA H. SMITH (Presiding)
COMMISSIONER PAUL KJELLANDER
COMMISSIONER MACK A. REDFORD
PLACE: Commission Hearing Room
472 West Washington Street
Boise, Idaho
DATE: March 21, 2013
VOLUME I - Pages 1 - 14
POST OFFICE BOX 578
BOISE, IDAHO 83701
208-336-9208
HEDRICK
COURT REPORTING
APPEARANCES
For the Staff: KARL KLEIN, Esq.
Deputy Attorney General
472 West Washington
Boise, Idaho 83702
For Idaho Power Company: LISA D. NORDSTROM, Esq.
Idaho Power Company
1221 West Idaho Street
Boise, Idaho 83702
For Snake River Alliance: KEN MILLER
Clean Energy Program Director
Snake River Alliance
Post Office Box 1731
Boise, Idaho 83701
For Idaho Clean Energy McDEVITT & MILLER, LLC
Association, Inc.: by DEAN J. MILLER, Esq.
420 West Bannock Street
Boise, Idaho 83702
For Idaho Conservation BENJAMIN J. OTTO, Esq.
League: Idaho Conservation League
710 North Sixth Street
Boise, Idaho 83702
For PowerWorks, LLC: CHRIS AEPELBACHER
Project Engineer
PowerWorks, LLC
5420 West Wicher Road
Glenns Ferry, Idaho 83623
For Pioneer Power, LLC: RICHARDSON & O'LEARY
by PETER J. RICHARDSON, Esq.
515 North 27th Street
Boise, Idaho 83702
For City of Boise: BATT FISHER PUSCH & ALDERMAN, LLP
by JOHN R. HAMMOND, JR., Esq.
101 South Capitol Boulevard,
Suite 701
Boise, Idaho 83702
- and -
R. STEPHEN RUTHERFORD, Esq.
Boise City Attorney's Office
Post Office Box 500
Boise, Idaho 83701-0500
• 1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
• 13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
• 25
HEDRICK COURT REPORTING APPEARANCES
P. 0. BOX 578, BOISE, ID 83701

1
BOISE, IDAHO, THURSDAY, MARCH 21, 2013, 9:00 A.M.
2
3

4 COMMISSIONER SMITH: Good morning, ladies and

5 gentlemen. This is the time and place set before the Idaho

6
Public Utilities Commission for a prehearing conference in Case

7
No. IPC-E-12-27, further identified as In the matter of Idaho

8 Power Company's Application for authority to modify its net
9 metering service and to increase the generation capacity limit.

10 My name is Marsha Smith, I'm one of the three

11
Commissioners here in Idaho, and I'll be chairing today's

12
hearing. To my left is Paul Kjellander, who is the president

.

13 of the Commission; and on my right is Mack Redford. The three

14 of us are your State Public Utilities Commission.

15 We will start by taking the appearances of the

16 parties, and we will begin with Ms. Nordstrom.

17 MS. NORDSTROM: Good morning. I'm Lisa

18 Nordstrom, lead counsel, appearing on behalf of Idaho Power
19 Company. Seated to my left is Tim Tatum, manager of cost of

20 service.

21 COMMISSIONER SMITH: All right. For the

22 Commission Staff.

23 MR. KLEIN: Karl Klein. I'm the attorney for the

24 Commission Staff. And with me is Randy Lobb, who is the

S
25 utility division administrator for the Commission.
I 1 I
HEDRICK COURT REPORTING COLLOQUY
P. 0. BOX 578, BOISE, ID 83701
.

1 COMMISSIONER SMITH: Okay. To you, Mr. Miller.

2 MR. K. MILLER: Good morning. Ken Miller with

3 the Snake River Alliance.

4 COMMISSIONER SMITH: All right.

5 MR. AEPELBACHER: Chris Aepelbacher with
6 PowerWorks, LLC.

7 COMMISSIONER SMITH: Aepelbach?

8 MR. AEPELBACHER: Aepelbacher.

9 COMMISSIONER SMITH: Aepelbacher.

10 MR. AEPELBACHER: Yep.

11 COMMISSIONER SMITH: Welcome to the hearing.

12 MR. AEPELBACHER: Thank you.
.

13 COMMISSIONER SMITH: Next.

14 MR. HAMMOND: John Hammond, Batt Fisher Pusch and
15 Alderman, for the City of Boise. And with me today is the

16 chief of staff or chief deputy at the City Attorney's office,

17 Steve Rutherford.

18 COMMISSIONER SMITH: All right. Another

19 Mr. Miller.

20 MR. D. MILLER: Thank you, Madam Chairman.

21 Dean J. Miller of the firm McDevitt and Miller on behalf of the

22 Idaho Clean Energy Association, Inc. With me today is the

23 Association's board chair, Leif Elgethun. For the benefit of

24 the reporter, that's L-E-I-F E-L-G-E-T-H-U--N. n
25 If I might, Madam Chairman, since this is the
I 2 I
HEDRICK COURT REPORTING COLLOQUY
P. 0. BOX 578, BOISE, ID 83701
Association's first appearance before the Commission, I might
just take a moment to say an introductory word about the
Association to introduce the Association to the Commission.
COMMISSIONER SMITH: That would be great.
MR. D. MILLER: Thank you, Madam Chairman.
The Idaho Clean Energy Association is a not --
non-for -- not-for-profit corporation, organized under the laws
of the State of Idaho. Its members are businesses and
individuals who are building the capacity and infrastructure to
design and build and install renewable alternatives to
utility-based electrical generation. The existence of a viable
and stable net metering framework is critical to that business
endeavor. Consequently, the ICA has a keen interest in this
proceeding.
COMMISSIONER SMITH: Thank you, Mr. Miller. We
appreciate you being here. We appreciate the interest of your
client in these important issues.
Mr. Richardson.
MR. D. MILLER: Thank you, Madam Chairman.
MR. RICHARDSON: Madam Chairman, Peter Richardson
of the firm Richardson and O'Leary, appearing on behalf of
Pioneer Power, LLC. Pioneer Power, LLC, is a net metering
customer of Idaho Power's on the irrigation schedule.
COMMISSIONER SMITH: Unrelated to a former
proposed power plant?
3

.

1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
an
22
23
24

10
25
HEDRICK COURT REPORTING COLLOQUY
P. 0. BOX 578, BOISE, ID 83701
.

1
2
3
4
5
6
7
.
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
MR. RICHARDSON: Totally unrelated, Madam Chair.
COMMISSIONER SMITH: Mr. Otto.
MR. OTTO: Madam Chairman, this is Benjamin Otto
with the Idaho Conservation League.
COMMISSIONER SMITH: All right. Welcome, all.
According to my list on the Notice of Parties, these are all
the parties to this case. Is there anyone in the room who
believes they're a party or should be a party?
Seeing none, we will welcome you all.
Today, I know there's a great deal of interest in
this filing by Idaho Power Company. We have received, I would
dare say, hundreds of letters expressing concern and interest
in the issues that are before us today. However, today's
proceeding is not to delve into the substantive nature of
that -- the issues or that interest; it is to determine how the
Commission is going to process this case.
If there is a need, we will have a technical
hearing. Technical hearings are to address any disputed issues
of fact that need to come before the Commission through the
testimony of the parties and the cross-examination by other
parties in order to get the evidence that we need to base our
Decision on.
Sometimes we process a case by something called
modified procedure, which is where parties file Memoranda and
talk about the issues and advise the Commission on what they
I 4 I
HEDRICK COURT REPORTING COLLOQUY
P. 0. BOX 578, BOISE, ID 83701
think is the proper public policy position for the Commission
to take and the proper Decision for the Commission to make.
The other thing we have done on occasion that
sometimes meets with success because it allows interaction of
an active nature between interested people and the parties is a
workshop where the issues are laid out and discussed, and
sometimes, miraculously, there are agreements on some of the
issues that all parties believe will work well for them.
So I guess I would open today's hearing by asking
the parties whether they have any thoughts or suggestions along
the nature of procedure in this case.
Before anyone speaks, I just want to acknowledge
Mr. Bill Eastlake. And it sure is good to see you again, Bill.
Welcome.
So, with that, I'd just say, Anybody have any
thoughts? Anybody taken the bold step of actually talking to
the other parties about what would be a rational process here?
Mr. Otto.
MR. OTTO: Madam Commissioner, if I might. Since
we did file a Motion for a technical hearing in the case, I
think it behooves me to maybe speak up.
COMMISSIONER SMITH: Okay.
MR. OTTO: We filed that Motion because we
believe -- and I've spoken with the other intervening parties
in this case extensively. Some of us have met with the Staff

.

1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
PA W
22
23
24

10
25
I 5 I
HEDRICK COURT REPORTING COLLOQUY
P. 0. BOX 578, BOISE, ID 83701
some and we've had a couple informal -- I've had a couple
informal -- conversations with the Company, not in any
substance but minor conversations.
We requested a hearing because we believe that
there are facts in dispute that need to be fleshed out. Most
specifically, there's about four major issues in this case.
In terms of the appropriate rates, both the
structure and the numbers, we think that there are some facts
in dispute and believe a technical hearing is in order in order
to flesh out that issue. That's our main driver behind the
technical hearing.
The other three issues, so like the
interconnection -- some changes to the interconnection process,
we actually don't have a dispute with those.
The cap on the program, we have an alternate
proposal on how to cap -- to place a cap on the program that we
think meets the needs of either party much better. That could
be mostly a policy issue, but I think there are some facts in
there that could be fleshed out by hearing.
On excess energy, we think that's really more of
a legal and policy issue. We believe that there are some
options for the Commission to consider in how to deal with
excess energy credits, not just retiring them.
And then as I said on the rates, I think that's
the primary issue that involves a hearing.

.

1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12

~ 0
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24

.

25
I 6 I
HEDRICK COURT REPORTING COLLOQUY
P. 0. BOX 578, BOISE, ID 83701
.

1 So that's why we believe a hearing is in order.

2 I haven't gotten -- we haven't talked specifically about
3 whether the Company or the Staff believe a hearing is in order

4 for that issue particularly.
5 COMMISSIONER SMITH: So, Mr. Otto, when did you
6 file your Motion?

7 MR. OTTO: We filed that back in January, 29th.

8 COMMISSIONER SMITH: Really? I apologize, it's
9 not in my notebook.

10 President Kjellander.

11 COMMISSIONER KJELLANDER: Mr. Otto, in your

12 dealings with some of the other Intervenors in this case, are
.

13 you aware if any of them had any conversations with Idaho Power

14 prior to the filing in relationship to any proposed changes for
15 net metering?

16 MR. OTTO: I'm not aware of any specific

17 conversations other than I had heard some members of the Clean

18 Energy Association -- Energy Association had said they had
19 heard from Scott Gates at the Company that the Company was

20 considering something on net metering. That's as far as I

21 know.

22 COMMISSIONER KJELLANDER: Thank you.

23 COMMISSIONER SMITH: Anything else?

24 COMMISSIONER KJELLANDER: That's it.

25 COMMISSIONER SMITH: So, if no one else wishes to
I 7 I
HEDRICK COURT REPORTING COLLOQUY
P. 0. BOX 578, BOISE, ID 83701
S
1 express an opinion at this moment, sometimes what is useful in
2 a prehearing conference mode is for the Commissioners to excuse
3 themselves so the parties may freely discuss any and all ideas,
4 proposals they may have. Sometimes this yields results and
5 sometimes it doesn't. So --
6 Mr. Richardson, you looked like you had a
7 comment.
8 MR. RICHARDSON: Madam Chair, Pioneer Power
9 seconds what Mr. Otto said. We think that there are technical
10 issues, particularly with the rate, cost of service issues are
11 definitely implicated in this, that have broad implications
12 beyond just the net metering class of customers. So we think a
0
13 technical hearing is called for and we would be happy to, if
14 you go off the record, propose a schedule for the Company and
IVE the other parties.
16 COMMISSIONER SMITH: Okay. Mr. Miller.
17 MR. D. MILLER: 1 was just going to, if you would
18 permit, add one point:
19 In our intervention papers, we also included a
20 Request for a technical hearing for many of the reasons that
21 Mr. Otto has touched on.
22 I might just elaborate on a point the Chairman at
23 least alluded to, which was I think there are multiple ways
24 that the Commission can become informed about issues that are
.

25 before you. One of those is just reading paper. Another is
I 8 I
HEDRICK COURT REPORTING COLLOQUY
P. 0. BOX 578, BOISE, ID 83701
.

1 listening to parties have a dialogue, listening to parties
2 speak to you directly.
3 My feeling is that the issues in this case are of
4 such importance that the Commission should avail itself of all
5 channels that would enable it to become informed.
6 COMMISSIONER KJELLANDER: Madam Chair.
7 COMMISSIONER SMITH: President Kjellander.
8 COMMISSIONER KJELLANDER: Mr. Miller, would it be
9 fair to characterize your client's response to the filing that
10 came before it that initiated this case as a surprise?
11 MR. MILLER: I believe it would,
12 Mr. Commissioner. In the sort of regulatory community, there
[I
13 are always sort of hints of what might happen next; but to my
14 knowledge, the power -- or, Idaho Power Company did not preview
15 in any substantive detail this proposal with any members of our
16 association. So there may have been a generalized
17 understanding that something was going to happen, but no
18 substantive discussion of any of the details.
19 COMMISSIONER KJELLANDER: Madam Chairman.
20 Mr. Miller, in lieu of me searching through the
21 documents that we have in front of us today, I'm wondering if
22 you know how many net metering customers, just roughly, that
23 Idaho Power has today.
24 MR. D. MILLER: How many current?
.

25 COMMISSIONER KJELLANDER: Close, an estimate,
I 9 I
HEDRICK COURT REPORTING COLLOQUY
P. 0. BOX 578, BOISE, ID 83701
.
1

~ 0
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
MR. D. MILLER: I'll stand subject to correction
from Ms. Nordstrom, who would undoubtedly have the most
accurate figures, but I have seen a Discovery Response that
lists approximately 251 current net meter customers. I know
I've seen another number somewhere, but it seems to be in that
magnitude.
MS. NORDSTROM: I believe our Application listed
353, if I recall correctly.
COMMISSIONER KJELLANDER: Thank you.
COMMISSIONER SMITH: And in response also,
Mr. Miller, the Commission had always intended to have public
hearings.
~ 0
EU
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
MR. D. MILLER: Sure.
COMMISSIONER SMITH: So that was never an issue.
But the question is do we need technical hearings or workshops?
Yes, Mr. Hammond.
MR. HAMMOND: Commissioner Smith and
Commissioners, to be fair, I'll try to answer Commissioner
Kjellander's question first.
I don't know that Idaho Power knew that the City
of Boise was going to intervene in the case, so for them to
have any discussions with the City on the case may have been
unknown. I mean, to be fair to the Company, they would not
maybe know of the City's interest at that point, so -- but I
10
HEDRICK COURT REPORTING COLLOQUY
P. 0. BOX 578, BOISE, ID 83701
.

hope that addresses that question.

2 We did not, in the intervening stage, file a

3 specific Request for a hearing, but through meetings with the

4 parties in this case, the other Intervenors, we believe we

5 would stand behind Ben's representations, Pete's, and Joe's,
6 that there are technical matters that need to be addressed in a

7 hearing, we believe, and factual matters of dispute and other

8 information that we would like to present in regard to a
9 proposal. We believe that the Application as proposed changes

10 the rate design significantly for these rate classes, and as
11 Mr. Richardson stated, could have implications beyond just this

12 program.
.

13 So, with that, I yield the floor. Thank you.

14 COMMISSIONER SMITH: All right. Any other

15 comments or questions before the -- I think the best thing for
16 us to do now is excuse ourselves and let you see if there are

17 any things here that can be sorted out and posed to the

18 Commission, knowing that if you don't succeed, we will, and

19 wish you the best of luck. So we'll be at recess.

20 (Recess.)

21 COMMISSIONER SMITH: Well, we'll go back on the
WM record. Do you have a designated spokesperson?

23 MR. KLEIN: I can do that.

24 COMMISSIONER SMITH: Ms. Nordstrom is not making

25 eye contact, so I'm sure it's not her. Mr. Klein.
11
HEDRICK COURT REPORTING COLLOQUY
P. 0. BOX 578, BOISE, ID 83701
1 MR. KLEIN: Thank you. While the Commission was
2 out, the parties discussed --

3 COMMISSIONER SMITH: Is your mic on?
4 MR. LOBB: Yes.

5 MR. KLEIN: Yes.

6 While the Commission was out, the parties --
7 Nope, not yet? I think Ms. Nordstrom should be
8 the designated speaker then.

9 MS. NORDSTROM: I'm happy to do that.

10 The parties did reach an agreement as to a

11 schedule for how to process this case.
Irm On April 25th, the parties have agreed to hold a
workshop here at the Commission at 9:00 a.m. And that would be
14 open to the public in which the Company would make a
15 presentation, and other parties could respond and state their

16 positions as well.

17 On April 29th, the parties would engage in a

18 settlement conference scheduled for 9:30 a.m.

19 On May 10th, testimony from the Staff and

20 Intervenors would be due.

21 COMMISSIONER REDFORD: What's the date again?

22 MS. NORDSTROM: May 10th, with rebuttal testimony

23 due on May 31st.

24 And then the parties had contemplated holding a
.

25 technical hearing the week of June 10th, with a target date for
12
HEDRICK COURT REPORTING COLLOQUY
P. 0. BOX 578, BOISE, ID 83701
S
1 an Order on July 1st.

2 MR. K. MILLER: Public hearing.

3 MR. KLEIN: And customer hearings.

4 MS. NORDSTROM: And then at some point, the

5 Commission would schedule public hearings as well.

6 COMMISSIONER SMITH: All right. Anyone else wish

7 to report anything else?

8 We appreciate the efforts of the parties to work

9 on the schedule.

10 Any questions from the Commissioners?

11 COMMISSIONER REDFORD: No.

12 COMMISSIONER SMITH: We especially appreciate the

.

13 workshop. We think that will go a long way to helping the
14 public understand the Company's needs and the Company

15 understand the customers' needs. And so we appreciate that.

16 Subject to the Commission checking the technical

17 hearing dates on its calendar, I assume we will approve this

18 proposed schedule and issue an Order memorializing it.

19 Appreciate all your hard work and know that the
20 harder work is coming. If there is nothing further to come

21 before the Commission, we will be adjourned.

22 (The hearing adjourned at 9:45 a.m.)
23
24
25
I 13 I
HEDRICK COURT REPORTING COLLOQUY
P. 0. BOX 578, BOISE, ID 83701
AUTHENTICATION
This is to certify that the foregoing is a
true and correct transcript to the best of my ability of the
proceedings held in the matter of Idaho Power Company's
Application for authority to modify its net metering service
and to increase the generation capacity limit, Case No.
IPC-E-12-27, commencing on Thursday, March 21, 2013, at the
Commission Hearing Room, 472 West Washington, Boise, Idaho, and
the original thereof for the file of the Commission.
WENDY J. MURRAY, N ta'ry Public
in and for the ta e of Idaho,
residing at Meridian, Idaho.
My Commission expires 2-8-2014.
Idaho CSR No. 475
OF
$TA.
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
0
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
tI
25
I 14 I
HEDRICK COURT REPORTING AUTHENTICATION
P. 0. BOX 578, BOISE, ID 83701