20180705Public Hearing Transcript Vol I.pdf

o HTC E IV EI)
BEFoRE rHE IDAHo PUBIIC UTIIITIES coflflFpStIPI{-S AH l0: 03
IN THE MATTER OF THE JOINT
APPI]CATION OE HYDRO ONE LIMITED
AND AV]STA CORPORATION FOR
APPROVAL OF MERGER AGREEMENT.
Case Nos. AVU-E-17-09
AVU-G-17-05
order No. 34061
OMilGilINAL
o
VOLUME ]
PUBLIC COMMENTS HEARING
JuNE 12 , 2O:.,8
6:00 p.m. - 5:47 p.m.
412 East 3rd Street
Moscow, Idaho
REPORTED BY:
LEIGH DELMOND, RPR, CCR, CSR
NOTARY PUBIIC
o
Exccllcrtce in Court Repttrting Sincc 7970
Coeur d'Alene, ldaho
Northern Offices
208.765.1700
1,800.879.1700
Spokane, Washington
509.455.4515
1.800.879.1700
www.mmcourt.com
Boise, ldaho
Southern Offices
208.345.96't1
1.800.234.9611
Court Reporting
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APPEARANCES
]DAHO PUBLIC UTIL]TIES COMM]SSION
PAUL KJELLANDER, Chairman
KRISTINE RAPER, Commissioner
ERIC ANDERSON, Commissioner
MATTHEW EVANS, Publ-ic Information Officer
Idaho Publ-lc Utilities Commission
4'72 West Washington Street
P.O. Box 83720Boise, Idaho 83702
208.334.0339
FOR ]DAHO PUBLIC UTILITIES COMMISSION STAFE:
KARL T. KLEIN, ESQ.
DEPUTY ATTORNEY GENERAL
IDAHO PUBLIC UTIL]TIES COMMISS]ON STAFF
412 West Washington Street
P.O. Box 83720Boise, Idaho 83102
208 .334 .0372o
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MOSCOW, IDAHO; TUESDAY, JUNE 12, 2078
6:00 p.m.
CHAIRMAN KJELLANDER: Good evening, ladies and
gentlemen. This is the time and place for a public
hearing in Case No. AVU-E-11-09 and AVU-G-17-05, also
known as, "fn the Matter of the Joint Application of Hydro
One Limited and Avista Corporation for Approval of Merger
Agreement. "
As far as this evening goes, my name is Paul
Kjellander and Irl-I be the chair of tonight's proceeding.
Next to me is Eric Anderson and also next to me is
Commissioner Kristine Raper.
The three of us comprise the commission and we wil-l-
ultimately make a final determination on this case once
it's fulJ-y submitted and the record is fu11y developed.
The purpose of tonight's hearing is singular, it's to
take testimony from the public regarding this case. This
is an opportunity for members of the public to get their
statements entered into the record and ul-timately assist
this commission in its del-iberati-on process.
As background, a1l- of our decisions have to be based
on a ful-ly developed record. That record then -- once an
order is issued, can actually be appealed and appealed
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directly to the state supreme court.
So as further background, this commi-ssion
simifar capacity to the distrlct court and we
foflow district court rul-es and procedures.
We are here this evening to heIp, again,
ful1y-developed record. We're not here today
statements made for the
serves l-n a
gene ra 1J- y
create a
judgment on cofliments or
record.
The commissioners
pass
of f icial-
serve as judges and accordingly, do
not answer questions rel-ated to the case other than
questions regarding procedure.
The commission will not begin to deliberate on the
merits of this case until the official- record is closed.
Additionally, the commission, like judges, only speak
through its orders as it rel-ates to the final ruling on
this matter.
So let me reiterate: We serve as judges and like
judges, we do not comment on the merits of the case while
the docket is still open.
Procedurally, this evening as we progress I'l-l- calf
your name from the sign-up sheet. f've afready tried to
pronounce some of the l-ast names. I'm going to miss a few
and I apologize in advance, so please excuse me for that.
I realize with a name like this I shoufd probably be
better at pronounci-ng last names, but please excuse me in
to
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advance.
Once I call your name/ if you coul-d come up to the
stand and Commissioner Raper will swear you in officially
for the record.
Then Lhe 1egaI counsel- for the attorney general's
office, Karl K1ein, will just ask you a few general
statements to get you offlcially in the record.
Itrs typically your name, where youtre from, your
address, he'l-l ask you to spe1l your name again for the
court reporter, and then you'11 be all-owed to offer your
statement to the commission.
And al-so I want to remind everybody to please direct
your cornments to the commission because wetre the ones
that need to hear what you have to say.
This isn't an opportunity to address the crowd, it's
an opportunity to present testimony. Pl-ease remember that
wetre trying to develop a record so, again, act similarly
as if you were in a courtroom.
We have had occasions in the past where we tried to
stop peopfe from saying, "Al-.1- right. Everybody raise your
hand if you don't like this."
That's not what this meeti-ng is about. This meeting,
again, is to try to develop a fully-developed record.
We have a court reporter with us this evening named
Leigh Del-mond. Again, her responsibil-ity i-s to get a fuII
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transcription because that, again, is
to help determine the final- decision
develop the ful-l record.
the part that we use
and it also helps us
Is there anything else that I think we need to do?
Yes, we need to take the appearances of the parti-es.
I know that some of the parties to the case are not here
this evening, but I do recognize a few.
So why donrt we start first with Avista Corporatj-on.
MR. EHRBAR: Sure. I'm Pat Ehrbar and I'm the
director of regs for Avista Corporation and with me are
several -- several- members of Avista. So if there's
questions after, we're here and avail-abl-e.
CHAIRMAN KJELLANDER: But there's no attorney, so
theret s no cross-exami-nation?
MR. EHRBAR: That's right.
CHAIRMAN KJELLANDER: Okay. Thatrs good to know.
Hydro One -- anyone representing Hydro One?
MR. LEVITAN: Daniel- Levitan, I'm director of public
rel-ations and public affairs for Hydro One.
CHAIRMAN KJELLANDER: And you are al-so not an
attorney so no cross-examination?
MR. LEVITAN: Correct.
CHAIRMAN KJELLANDER: Excel-l-ent. I'm just reminding
me.
Letrs move then to Idaho Forest Group. Anyone
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representing Idaho Forest Group?
Nope.
Clearwater Paper?
Nope.
Community Action Partnership?
I don't see Brad Purdy.
Idaho Conservation League?
MR. OTTO: Yes, I'm Benjamin Otto from Idaho
Conservation League.
CHAIRMAN KJELLANDER: You are an attorney, but you
don't intend to do any cross-examination tonight either,
do you?
MR. OTTO: No, of course not.
CHAIRMAN KJELLANDER: Good answer. Very good answer.
And Washington and Northern fdaho Distrj-ct Council- of
Laborers ?
No representatives from them.
Is there any party to the case that I may have missed
in terms of introductions?
ff not, then I bel-ieve we are ready to cal-l- our first
witness and that will- be Diane Baumgart.
MS. RAPER: Pl-ease raise your right hand.
DIANE BAUMGART,
being first duly sworn to tel-l- the truth, the who1e truth, and
nothing but the truth, testified as fol-fows:
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MS. BAUMGART: Yes, I do
MS. RAPER:
MR. KLEIN:
attorney for the
Thank you.
Ms. Baumgart, hi
commission and staff
I'm Karl K1ein, the
ask you a few introductory questions
record.
. I rm just going to
to get you on the
MS. BAUMGART: Okay.
MR. KLEIN: One thing -- if anybody who is testifying
will remember this, the court reporter is trying to take
down everything you're saying.
So if you can try to not tafk over other people and
to keep your -- not tal-k at a real-Iy rapid pace, that
would be great.
Attorneys are the worst offenders. I usually te1I
people that and then I go ahead and do it. But if you can
keep that in mind, that would be great.
So would you please state your name and speIl your
l-ast name?
MS. BAUMGART:
t
name fs
MR
spel 1ed,
KLEIN:
DDt
And what's your address?
MS. BAUMGART: 494 Ridge Road, Moscow, Idaho 83843
MR. KLEIN: Are you an Avista customer?
MS. BAUMGART: Yes.
MR. KLEIN: Go ahead and make your statement.
My name is
as in boy,
Diane Baumgart. My last
a-u-m-g-a-r-t.
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MS. BAUMGART: Okay.
I want to first state that I support the merger
between Avista and Hydro One.
I understand -- after reading multiple articLes --
the 1egal protections as wel-l- as the investments of the
companies concerned in the proposed settfement agreement,
and I believe that they're good for ldaho, they're good
for ldaho ratepayers, and they're good for myself as a
resident and as a smal-l business owner and a director of a
nonprofit.
In terms of util-ity bi11s and smal-l- businesses, those
are monthly payments. They're factored in and we are
always hoping that we can rely on that number and see
minimum rate increases.
The bottom Line is support in smafl- businesses, so I
appreciate that the l-iability of the ldaho taxpayers has
been considered in this settlement agreement and that the
-- and that there's some -- Irm trying to rephrase here.
That the cost of the settl-ement will- be shared to a
large extent by the sharehol-ders of the company rather
than being passed on to ratepayers.
Thj-s settlement, I think, is a wi-n for Idaho and it
l-ooks like it's a win for Idaho communities.
If rates are -- for ratepayers and Idaho citizens are
taken into account and if the expenses and liability of
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the risky and expensive coal mine operation is taken on by
the companies and the shareholders, that feaves Idaho
ratepayers enough in a favorable position and I'd fike to
see this settfement go forward. Thank you very much.
MS. RAPER: Thank you.
CHAIRMAN KJELLANDER: Thank you very much for your
comments.
Letts move now to Mary Dupree.
MS. RAPER: PLease raise your right hand.
MARY DUPREE,
being fj-rst duly sworn to tel-l- the truth, the whole truth, and
nothing but the truth, testified as fol-lows:
MS. DUPREE: Yes.
MS. RAPER: Thank you.
MR. KLEIN: Good evening. Woul-d you please state
your name and spel1 your last name?
MS. DUPREE: My name is Mary Dupree. My l-ast name is
spe1led, D-u-p-r-e-e.
MR. KLEIN: And what is your address?
MS. DUPREE: My address is 320 North Adams Street in
Moscow, Idaho 83843.
MR. KIEfN: Are you a customer of Avista?
MS. DUPREE: I am.
MR. KLEIN: Pl-ease go ahead.
MS. DUPREE: Thank you.
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I am happy to speak in support of the agreement --
merger agreement. There are three major j-ssues that I
wanted to briefly address.
The first is that the Colstrip mine is now a major
emitter of CO2 throughout the country and I appreciate the
plan for retiring the Colstrip component of Avista's power
sources.
Secondly, I appreciate that the agreement offers
remediation to the community of Colstrip as it transitions
into a new economy.
And third, I hope that Hydro Oners extensive
experience and expertise will fead to more alternative
energy supports in the State of Idaho. Thank you.
CHAIRMAN KJELLANDER: Thank you, Mary. We appreciate
your testimony.
Any questions from members of the commission?
If not, thank you for your testimony.
Let's move to Victoria Seeber.
MS. RAPER: Pl-ease raise your right hand.
VICTOR]A SEEBER,
being first duly sworn to tel-l- the truth, the whol-e truth, and
nothing but the truth, testified as follows:
MS. SEEBER: Yes.
MS. RAPER: Thank you.
MR. KLEIN: Hi, can you pJ-ease state your name and
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spel-l- your last name?
MS. SEEBER: Victoria Seeber, S-e-e-b-e-r. 121 North
LiJ-Iy in Moscow, Idaho 83843.
MR. KLEIN: Customer of Avista?
MS. SEEBER: I'm a customer of Avista and a general
member of the fdaho Conservation League as well.
MR. KLEIN: Pl-ease go ahead.
MS. SEEBER: Thank you for being here tonight. I
appreciate it.
I support the Avista and Hydro One merger agreement
for Idaho and request that the commission approve the
stipulation therein and all of the terms and conditions
without materiaf change or condj-tj-on.
The City of Moscow is actively engaged in sustainabfe
practices and smart developments for conservation. A
couple of examples incl-ude Moscowfs Ecoscriber [phonetic]
programs, water conservation and partnership with the
Pal-ouse Basin Aquifer Committee, and tal-ks about
developing infrastructure in areas with growth activity
and urban sprawl -- and urban sprawl.
Additional-Iy, proactive responses to potential
cl-lmate change impact real-izes many of those same
pragmatic strategies.
So whether for social--economic reasons or for
environmental- stewardship, reducing carbon emissj-ons and
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new options for cfean, efficient, and nontoxic energy is
sound action.
Sol-ar and wind energies are also cl-ean and renewabl-e
energies. Moscow is highly-aware and forward-thinkj-ng,
and I real-ize that Avista needs reliable energy resources.
Avista al-so contributes to community programs and
provides education for a wide use of those resources. In
that vein, we urge Avista to cut investments from the
coal-fired plant -- power plant in Colstrip, Montana. The
sooner the better.
Coal- is a dirty and destructive energy. ft's a
terrj-ble greenhouse gas emitter and groundwater pollutant.
Its day as an energy source is done and alternative new
energy sources are present and exponentially growing in
service, technology, and increasing power storage.
Of crucial importance is the merger agreement
provision for a transition fund for the Colstrip community
and for energy efficient and transportation efforts in
that region.
We do not want to pull the rug out -- the financial-
rug out from under these people without also providing a
soft place to land, which wil-l- create better l-j-ving and
viable working conditions for them to fl-ourish.
Accel-erating depreciation of Avista's interest in
Colstrip shouLd also provide stable customer rates and
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avoid the possibiJ-i-ty of having to pick up costs from
Puget Sound Energy earl-ier than Colstrip.
A11 in all, the joint application of Hydro One
Limited and Avista Corporation for approval- of a merger
agreement is a mul-tifaceted opportunity to further secure
an energy portfolio and address the vj-tal environmental,
economj-c, and social- factors that will- help lead us into a
more sustainabl-e, healthy, and protective future that this
worl-d needs and deserves. Thank you.
CHAIRMAN KJELLANDER: Thank you.
Jennifer Wisniewski.
MS. RAPER: And raise your right hand.
JENNIFER W]SN]EWSKI,
being first duly sworn to tel1 the truth, the whol-e truth, and
nothing but the truth, testif ied as fol-l-ows:
MS. WISNIEWSKI: I do.
MS. RAPER: Thank you.
MR. KLEIN: Hi, would you please state your name and
spe1I the l-ast name?
MS. WISNIEWSKI: My name is Jennifer Wisniewski. My
fast name is spelled, Id-i-s-n-i-e-w-s-k-i.
MR. KLEIN: And what.'s your address?
MS. WISNIEWSKf : '727 Brent Dri-ve, Moscow, Idaho
83843.
MR. KLEIN: Are you an Avista customer?
I
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And
in
MS. WISNIEWSKI: Yes, sir.
MR. KLEIN: Please go ahead.
MS. WISNIEWSKI: Okay.
I might be a minority here. I object to the
acquisition of Avista by Hydro One.
My one -- number one concern about the acquisition is
that why as we -- as the United States want to have a
foreign government in charge of our el-ectric -- our power
supply. Hydro One is owned 70 percent by Ontario's
government.
My second concern is the rates of Hydro One. Now,
here j-n the Northwest, our l-owest cost el-ectricity --
Avista Corporation's l-owest cost of e.l-ectricity tn 20!7owas just under -- it was
Now, in 2015, Hydro
in North America at .299
then
.0897 kilowatt hours.
One had the hrghest
cents per kilowatt
in 2018, i-t went up to 52 cents
tn 2079, it went. up to 6l .614
per kilowatt
cents. And
Canadian
electricity
hour. And
hour.
that's
Ontario I s
Canadian currency.
electricity price
Green Act -- Green Energy Act rn
showed that the el-ectric rate -- the
have gone up by then and a l-ot of the
up because of green energy faws.
Twenty-seven percent of billing
explosion began with its
2009. That's where it
e.l-ectricity rates
Hydro One costs go
is el-ectricity used
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and 73 percent of the biJ-I goes towards green mandates,
globa1 adjustments, and delivery fees.
I'm sorry. Irm just kind of nervous.
So we're l-ooking at the posslbility of customer rates
increasing drasticalJ-y compared to what we are paying now
compared to what Hydro One customers are paying.
I al-so found out that due to these high increases
that a l-ot of people have had to have -- because they
coufd not pay their bilIs, a Iot of people have had their
electricity disconnected.
I should have been a l-ittle bit better prepared for
this, I tm sorry.
CHAIRMAN KJELLANDER: You're fine. You're fine.
MS. WISNIEWSKI: I think Irl-l- end with that then.
CHAIRMAN KJELLANDER: If you'd l-ike to -- the
deadfine for public comment is on June 27th so if you
l-eave here tonight and remember some things you wanted to
cover, please feel free to go to our website and submit
addi-tional comments.
MS. WISNIEWSKI: Okay.
CHAIRMAN KJELLANDER: And I rea]ize this can be
intimidating and we certainly appreciate you coming out
this evening. Thank you.
John Wisniewski?
MS. RAPER: Pl-ease raise your right hand.
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JOHN WISNIEWSKI,
being first duly sworn to tefl the truth, the whole truth, and
nothing but the truth, testified as fol-l-ows:
MR. WISNIEWSKI: Yes.
MS. RAPER: Thank you.
MR. KLEIN: Please state your name and spell your
last name.
MR. WISNIEWSKI: John Wisniewski,
W-i-s-n-i-e-w-s- k-i- .
MR. KLEIN: And what's your address?
MR. V{ISNIEWSKI: 127 Brent Drive in Moscow, Idaho.
MR. KLEIN: Are you an Avista customer?
MR. W]SNIEWSKI: Yes.
MR. KLEIN: Pl-ease go ahead.
MR. WISNIEWSKI: I just want to reiterate one of the
things that was said by the person here prior to me, and
that has to do with a foreign government being in control
of the infrastructure of our electricaf system.
The United States government and the Canadian
government a ]ot of times have different interests.
And particularly right now with the Canadian
government being heavily invol-ved in the Paris Accord and
Agenda 21 with the United Nations where we are not so
invofved -- particularly with the Paris Accord -- I think
that the potential- for the Canadian government to misuse
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the system, whether it be by raising rates or perhaps if
things -- maybe rel-ations between the two countries got
worse, they'd use it as a leverage.
A l-everage is a bad idea, so that's basically what I
have to say. I'm against it.
CHAIRMAN KJELLANDER: Thank you for your comments.
Gresham -- and your last name is going to be a
struggle for me.
MR. BOUMA: Bouma.
CHAIRMAN KJELLANDER: Bouma?
MR. BOUMA: Or Bouma or Bouma.
CHAIRMAN KJELLANDER: Thank you.
MS. RAPER: Pl-ease raise your right hand.
GRESHAM BOUMA,
being first duly sworn to tel-l the truth, the who1e truth, and
nothing but the truth, testified as fol-l-ows:
MR. BOUMA: f do.
MS. RAPER: Thank you.
MR. KLEIN: Hi, would you state your name and spelI
your last name?
MR.
Gresham,
MR.
MR.
MR.
BOUMA:
Oregon,
KLEIN:
BOUMA:
KLEIN:
Gresham Bouma. Gresham is just like
and Bouma is, B-o-u-m-a.
And what's your address?
P.O. Box 95, Princeton, Idaho 83857.
Are you a customer of Avista?
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MR. BOUMA: f am not, I am my own power company. I'm
off-grid.
MR. KIEIN: Okay. Go ahead.
MR. BOUMA: But however, f -- you know, as a matter
in the course of business, f use Avista power on a daily
basis. And society-wj-de, we al] have very much an
interest in the public utility grid and that's my concern.
I have great concern -- I bel-ieve our utility grid is
a national security interest and I bel-ieve that there's a
l-ot of work to do as far as grid protection, grid
security, and grid hardening.
Itrs a lot of stuff f don't know about, but it has
been, I think, largely neglected. And I befieve that the
better accountability we have and the more loca.L
accountability we have, the greater abil-ity we have to
impact that area of concern for security. To me, that's a
huge i-ssue.
Also an issue is the fact that the -- a lot of our
power comes from hydro and that real-Iy belongs to al-l- of
us.
It belongs to the public and f rea11y befieve that
the more focalized the controf and the more focaf the
accountability we have in terms of management, the better
off we all are.
And I guess those are my biggest concerns: Locaf
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control-, clear accountability, and retaining the public's
j-nterest in the resources and the benefits they provide.
I also -- f al-so bel-ieve that, you know, water is by
far our cheapest, cleanest power and we have to be carefu1
about pursuing al-ternatives that -- whil-e they make sense
for me because I tm my own -- you know, I have a reason to
use sofar but it's l-ocalized and it's economic for me
because of the detail-s.
I don't bel-ieve we should pursue afternatives at al-l-
costs to the ratepayers, I think we have to be carefuf
about control-l-ing costs for the ratepayers as wel-l-. f
befieve hydro is our best avenue for doing that and we
need to protect that resource. Thank you.
CHAIRMAN KJELLANDER: Thank you.
Pat Rathmann?
MS. RATHMANN: That's me, and you said it perfectly.
CHAIRMAN KJELLANDER: I got that one, huh?
MS. RATHMANN: Very good.
MS. RAPER: Please raise your right hand.
PAT RATHMANN,
bej-ng first duly sworn to teII the truth, the whol-e truth, and
nothing but the truth, testif ied as fo.l-l-ows:
MS. RATHMANN: I swear. Yes, absolutely.
MS. RAPER: It just needs to be on the record. Thank
you.
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MR. KLEIN: Pl-ease state your name and spell your
l-ast name.
MS. RATHMANN: Itrs Pat -- Patricia -- Rathmann,
R-a-t-h-m-a-n-n.
MR. KIEIN: And your address?
MS. RATHMANN: 219 North Lieuaffen in Moscow, Idaho.
MR. KLEIN: Are you an Avista customer?
MS. RATHMANN: Yes, I'm an Avista customer.
MR. KLEIN: Go ahead.
MS. RATHMANN: f'm speaking in favor of the merger
and the aspect that I am most favorably disposed towards
is the cl-osure of the Colstrip mine.
And in addition to the closure, I am so pleased that
they have plans to heJ-p the individual-s who wil-l- l-ose
their jobs as a resul-t of the mine closing.
EinaIIy, I am very concerned about the hea1th effects
of burning coal and that would be eased by the mine
cl-osure. Over 25,000 lives in the United States are fost
each year due to the effects of burning coa1.
Thank you for this opportunity to share my thoughts.
CHAIRMAN KJELLANDER: Thank you.
Kathie LaFortune?
MS. LAFORTUNE: LaFortune.
CHAIRMAN KJELLANDER: LaEortune, thank you.
MS. RAPER: Pl-ease raise your right hand.
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KATHIE LAFORTUNE,
being first duly sworn to teLl the truth, the whole truth, and
nothing but the truth, testified as foll-ows:
MS. LAEORTUNE: ] do.
MS. RAPER: Thank you.
MR. KLEIN: Hi, please state your name and spe11 your
last name.
MS. LAFORTUNE: Kathie, with an "i-e," LaFortune,
L-d, capital, E-o-r-t-u-n-e.
MR. KLEIN: And your address?
MS. LAEORTUNE: P.O. Box 66 --
MR. KLEIN: Are you a customer --
MS. LAEORTUNE: -- in Voila, Idaho 83812.
MR. KLEIN: Are you a customer of Avista?
MS. LAEORTUNE: No, Clearwater Power.
MR. KLEIN: Go ahead.
MS. LAEORTUNE: frm standing up here in support of
the merger between Hydro One and Avista for three
different reasons.
I shoul-d also say I'm running for Latah County
Commissioner, so I speak for a lot of the famil-ies that I
interacted with over the last slx months during my
candidacy.
The first thing that I reaIIy like about the Avista
keep locaf controf, we do getmerger is that we do get to
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to keep PauI Kimme11, and we get to keep our l-ocal
representatives through Avista, who I think have been very
infl-uential- and beneficial to this town.
The other thing that f'm very much in favor of is the
5.3 million that goes into heJ-ping Idaho homes become more
energy efficient, which helps to offset energy costs.
fn my rol-e as a pediatric therapist, I see a lot of
families that are struggling and utilities are a huge
portion of that. I see them trying very, very hard to
rent -- to heat a ti-n can and it's dif f icul-t without
proper insul-ation.
f al-so like the fact that there's protection for rate
increases because I do know that -- that Hydro One does
have higher power costs than we do here with renewables,
but I like the fact that thatrs built into the agreement,
that there wil-l be rate credits that protect against those
high costs.
And that's al-l- I have to say.
CHAIRMAN KJELLANDER: Thank you and thank you for
your testimony this evening.
Alan Poplawsky?
MR. POPLAWSKY: That was good.
MS. RAPER: And please raise your right hand.
ALAN POPLAWSKY,
being first duly sworn to tel,l the truth, the whole truth, and
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nothing but the truth, testif ied as fol-l-ows:
MR. POPLAWSKY: I do.
MR. KLEIN: Woufd you please state and spe1I your
name -- l-ast name?
MR. POPLA!{SKY: Al-an Poplawsky, P-o-p-1-a-w-s-k-y.
MR. KLEIN: And what's your address?
MR. POPLAViSKY: 2108 Vandal- Drive in Moscow, Idaho.
MR. KLEIN: Are you an Avista customer?
MR. POPLAWSKY: Yes, I am.
MR. KLEIN: Pl-ease go ahead.
MR. POPLAWSKY: So f afso am speaking in favor and in
support of the Avista and Hydro One merger.
My perspective is mainly in terms of climate change.
Cl-imate change is probably the most serious problem that
humanity faces right now.
Currently, our power generation with fossil fuels and
our transportation sector with fossil fuel-s are the two
biggest human contributors to carbon pollution and climate
change and those are the two things we reaIly need to
address and sol-ve.
Scientists tefl- us we need to be off carbon by
2035 -- that's in 17 years -- to avoid the worst cl-imate
change scenarios.
So we have to convert our power generation from
fossil- fuels to cl-ean, sustainabfe non-carbon based fuels
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while at the same time electrifying our transportation
sectors. So as our power generation gets cleaner, our
transportation sector wil-l- al-so get cl-eaner.
The fol-l-owing elements of the merger agreement are
going to contrj-bute to the cleanup of our power
generation, in my opinion.
Fj-rst of all-, the depreciation of and hopefully the
closi-ng of the Colstrip plant, known as the dirti-est coal-
plant in the West, by 2021, will be a big improvement. I
bel-ieve it was previously thought to contj-nue until 2040.
Using the planning process for util-ity-integrated
resource plans to devel-op c1ean, sustainable energy
sources to replace fossil- fuel power generation is also an
ef ement of the pJ-an that I support.
And thirdly, investing millions of dollars over ten
years into new energy conservation programs also
contributes to our reduction of carbon pollution.
As f understand it, aJ-1 of this wil-I be done with no
increase in rates, whi-ch is, of course, exceflent. I urge
the public utility commi-ssj-on to accept this proposal for
those reasons.
However, I just want to make an additional- comment.
I've tal-ked about cleaning up our power generation, but we
aLso need to speed the electrification of our
transportation sector and Avista has done a good job
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starting with this in Eastern Washington.
f know they have insta11ed four or five of these
DC fast-charging stations in Eastern Washington, but to my
knowledge nothing l-ike this has been done in Northern
Idaho.
I actuall-y have electric cars and I know fots of
people who do have el-ectric cars. So even from a personal
standpoint, Ifd like to see these DC fast-charging
stations in Northern Idaho.
I know the VW settl-ement funds are going to be used
to start with the el-ectrification and DC fast-charging
stations in Idaho and there's a plan to get to Northern
Idaho, but right now the money is just there for Southern
Idaho.
So I encourage the PUC to conslder this and work
towards efectrification i-n Northern Idaho also. Thank
you.
CHAIRMAN KJELLANDER: Thank you for your comments.
Al-an Hodgdon?
MS. RAPER: And please raise your right hand.
ALAN HODGDON,
being first duly sworn to tell- the truth, the whole truth, and
nothing but the truth, testified as foll-ows:
MR. HODGDON: Yes.
MS. RAPER: Thank you.
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MR. KLEIN: Please state your name and spefl- your
l-ast name.
MR. HODGDON: My name j,s Alan Hodgdon, H-o-d-g-d-o-n.
MR. KLEIN: What's your address?
MR. HODGDON: I l-ive in Pull-man. 605 NW Gary Street,
Pullman, Washington.
MR. KLEIN: And are you an Avista customer?
MR. HODGDON: Yes.
MR. KLEIN: Go ahead.
MR. HODGDON: Okay.
I just want to make four really quick points. I'm in
favor of the agreement and what I Iike about it, is it
emphasizes renewable energy sources and it gives heating
assistance to poor people. The Washington agreement does
that too, which is really important, I think.
And it also subsidizes house insulation, which is a
very good -- it should be a very good method of enhanci-ng
energy use reduction.
And the final- one I wanted to say was that f'm very
much in favor of a faster depreciation of the Colstrip
mi-ne . Thank you.
CHAIRMAN KJELLANDER: Thank you.
And next is Daniel- Fisher.
MS. RAPER: Pl-ease raise your right hand.
DANIEL EISHER,
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being first duly sworn to tel-l- the truth, the who1e truth, and
nothing but the truth, testified as fol-Iows:
MR. FISHER: Yes, I do.
MS. RAPER: Thank you.
MR. KLEIN: Pl-ease state your name and spe11 your
Iast name.
MR. EISHER: Daniel- Fisher, and j-t's normal- spelling
just like most fishermen, E-i-s-h-e-r. I do five in
Moscow, 1004 Bonnj-e Court, and f am an Avj-sta customer
resj-dentially and commercialJ-y.
MR. KLEIN: Go ahead.
MR. FISHER: f have a business in town, a
manufacturing business. I'm a mechanical engineer and I
have a small- manufacturing business that uses Avista,
Three Eigs Power.
I don't consume a l-ot of it, but I do oppose the
merger based on a l-ot of the reasons that people have said
both for and against.
But I think the primary reason we have to fook at
opposing this is what several- have a1ready said, it is a
foreign-entity-owned company trying to acquire a national-
asset, a part of our grid and of the gas system as wel-l-.
The -- as it's al-ready been stated, f believe 70
percent of the company is owned by the Province of
Ontario.
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Does anybody want to oblect to that? Is that true or
is that false?
CHAIRMAN KJELLANDER: If you coul-d speak to us and
not to them.
MR. FISHER: Okay. I know there were some
representatives here from both companies, but I think
thatrs al-ready been stipulated.
That means they've got a majorj-ty control- of this
company and I see all those other reasons as being
negative.
And the rates w111 go up. There's no doubt about
that because Hydro One is very heavily j-n debt and they
need to spread out that debt. This is one of the ways
they're going to do it, is to get us to buy some of that
debt that they have.
They have almost as much debt as they have assets,
big business. Now, I operate a business and that's very
-- I know in modern problems that's not that bad but
thatrs a bad place to come from though, to have as much
debt as you have assets in your business.
So they want to spread it to us in Washington and
Idaho and Montana and parts of Oregon and this is one of
the ways they're going to do it and theyrll have ful-l-
contro1 of our grid and gas at the same time.
But reaIly, the primary reason I object to it is the
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conffict of interests. There is the Province of Ontario
dictating to Hydro One, which wil-l- then eventually be
dictated to Avista if they purchase Avista, as to how
they're to operate.
They're setting various standards for that company --
according to what other people have said -- from the Paris
Accord and other conventi-ons j-nternationally and they're
going to be forcing them to spend money and do things that
aren't necessariJ-y economical- because of the fact that
it's a legislated event, all right, which means we're
going to have to bear that cost in the end.
Having a government dictate to a company what they
shoul-d do when they turn around and benefit from that and
they make a profj-t from it -- that is, they get 70 percent
of the profi-ts from Hydro One so they can tel-l them
exactly what to do to be able to make more money, right?
To me, that's a conflict of interests and that's my
primary objection to this merger and I think you should
all oppose it.
CHAIRMAN KJELLANDER: Thank you for your comments
this evening.
We have -- we've exhausted this l-ist. Do we have
another l-ist or is there someone el-se who wants to
testify?
If you want -- and I just wanted to let you know that
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if there are others who want to testify that didn't sign
up, we'l-f -- there wrl-l- be plenty of opportunitles for you
to do so.
Pl-ease come
MS. RAPER:
forward, sir.
Pl-ease raise your right hand.
TIM HATTEN,
being first duly sworn to telI the truth, the whol-e truth, and
nothing but the truth, testified as follows:
MR. HATTEN: I do.
MS. RAPER: Thank you.
MR. KLEIN: Hi, would you please state your name and
spe11 your last name?
MR. HATTEN: Tim Hatten, H-a-t-t-e-n.
MR. KLEIN: And your address?
MR. HATTEN: 1119 Lynandra Dri-ve. And thatrs,
L-y-n-a-n-d-r-a .
MR. KLEIN: Thank you. And then are you an Avista
customer?
MR. HATTEN: Yes, I am.
MR. KLEIN: Go ahead.
MR. HATTEN: Okay.
So I just wanted to say that I support this merger
agreement between Avista, Hydro One, Idaho Conservation
League, and the other parties in the agreement.
I support it because, first of al-l-, I think the
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agreement reached to depreciate Col-strip by 202'7, which
advances the depreciation by about ten years, is a very
good thing.
We heard some other individual-s tal-k about the
importance of climate change and how thatrs -- j-t's a very
large -- i-t's one of the biggest j-ssues we're facing today
on this planet.
And Cofstrip is a bad one, it's the fifth biggest
emitter of CO2 in the United States and it's the first
biggest emitter of CO2 in the Western United States so
it's a major contributor.
That's equivalent to 3 mil-l-ion cars a year in CO2
exhaust so, again, that depreciation i.s a very good thing.
I al-so appreciate the fact that there is several
mil-l-ion dol-l-ars of assi-stance funds to Colstrip's
residents to transi-tion to other -- to a new l-ife after
Colstrip and working at the p1ant.
I also appreciate the fact that sharehol-der
contributions are groing to go into our community for
upgrades to homes for energy efficiency and conservation,
Idaho schoofs' conservation and food assistance, rate --
and rate credits to protect us against rate increases.
So theoretically, or rates shoul-d not go up as a
resul-t of this merger agreement.
I'd also just like to echo the sentiment of a
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previous speaker that I'd sure like to see more -- I'd
l-ike to see us doing more to el-ectrify the transportation
corridor in Northern Idaho.
It's going on just literalIy across the county lines
and state lines there in our adjacent county with DC
charging stations and it woul-d be sure nice to see those
come in here.
Ird like to see more support for solar, both for
resi-dential and for business purposes. It's always great
to see that.
And with that, I'l-1 close. I'11 just say again I
support the merger agreement.
CHAIRMAN KJELLANDER: Thank you for your comments.
MR. HATTEN: Thank you.
CHAIRMAN KJELLANDER: And is there anyone efse who
woul-d l-ike to testify thls evening?
MS. RAPER: Please raise your right hand.
MADELE]NE CURTRIGHT,
being first duly sworn to tel1 the truth, the whole truth, and
nothing but the truth, testified as foll-ows:
MS. CURTRIGHT: YeS.
MR. KLEIN: Can you state your name and spell your
l-ast name?
MS. CURTRIGHT: My name is Madeleine Curtright,
M-a-d-e-l- -e-i -n-e, C-u-r-t- r-i-g-h-t .
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MR. KLEIN: And whatrs your address?
MS. CURTRIGHT: 407 College Avenue, Apartment D,
Moscow.
MR. KLEIN: Are you an Avista customer?
MS. CURTRIGHT: Yes.
MR. KLEIN: Pl-ease go ahead.
MS. CURTRIGHT: I'm here today to speak in favor of
the merger between Avista and Hydro one.
I am a student at the university and as a young
person, cl-imate change is a very big concern of mine. To
know that this merger wil-l provide for a way to increase
renewable energy productj-on in Idaho is a great comfort.
To know that me and my descendenLs wil-l be in some
way protected from the effects of cfimate change, which
wifl most definitj-ve1y negatj-ve1y impact my 1ife, if it
hasn't already, is a relief.
So that i-s the main reason why I'm i-n favor of the
merger and that's really all I have to say. Thank you.
CHAIRMAN KJELLANDER: Thank you and thank you for
your comments.
And, sir, I think you were next.
MS. RAPER: Pl-ease raise your right hand.
DAVID HALL,
being first duly sworn to tel-l the truth, the whole truth, and
nothing but the truth, testified as follows:
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MR. HALL: I do.
MS. RAPER: Thank you.
MR. KLEIN: Hi, please state your name and spelf your
Last name.
MR. HALL : David Ha11, H-a-l--l- .
MR. KLEIN: And what's your address?
MR. HALL: The closest one ls 1334 Wall-en Road in
Moscow, but I afso have property outsi-de of Sandpoint and
that property is an Avista property out there.
MR. KLEIN: Is this an Avista property here too?
MR. HALL: No, I'm in the county here so I'm on
Cl-earwater Power at my primary residence.
MR. KLEIN: Go ahead.
MR. HALL: From what I read of the settl-ement
agreement or the -- I forget what it's cal-l-ed.
I approve of getting rid of the coal connection as
quickly as possible, and I l-ike what I read about the
environmental- work and what's been set up with the Idaho
Conservation League and the others working on that.
So frm in agreement with what I've read and what f
understand. Thank you.
CHATRMAN KJELLANDER: Thank you.
fs there anyone efse who'd l-ike to testify this
evening?
We are at the point in the evening where I get to say
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thank you to everyone for coming out this evening.
I real-ize that there are a thousand other t.hings that
might be more enjoyable than a public hearj-ng, but we
certainly do appreciate your wilIi-ngness to come out and
share your thoughts and ideas in regards to this case.
Procedurally, we wil-1 have two more public hearings,
one tomorrow night in Sandpoint and the third and finaf
public hearing will- be in Coeur d'Al-ene on -- what is
today? Monday -- Wednesday evening. The days run
together when you're having fun.
And with that -- I also wanted to l-et you know that
the publi-c coniment period wil-l- end on June 2'7Lh. So if
there is some other thoughts or ideas you'd like to share
with the commission, we have a few more weeks for you to
get those into the record and we certainly encourage you
to do that.
So with that then, again, thank you for coming out
this evening, we appreciate your participation, and we are
adj ourned.
(Proceedings concl-uded at 6:47 p.m.)
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