20171108Hearing Transcript Vol I.pdf

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ORIGIIYAL CSB REPOR.TING
C e rtiJie d S h o rt h and Reporters
Post Office Box9774
Boise, Idaho 83707
c sbrep o rti n g [d. yahoo. c om
Ph: 208-890-5 198 l;ax: I -888 -623-6g99
Reporter:
Constance Bucy,
CSR
BEEORE THE IDAHO PUBLIC UTTLITTES COMMISSTON
IN THE MATTER OF AVISTA
CORPORATION'S 2OL1 ELECTRIC
]NTEGRATED RESOURCE PLAN
CASE NO. AVU_E-17-08
BEFORE
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COMMISSIONER PAUL KJELLANDER (Presiding)
COMMISSIONER ERTC ANDERSON
COMMISSIONER KRISTINE RAPER
PLACE:Commission Hearing Room
4'72 West Washington StreetBoise, Idaho
DATE: November 2, 20L1
VOLUMEI-Pagesl-54
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CSB REPORTING(208) 890-s198
APPEARANCES
Eor the Staff:Daphne Huang, Esq.
Deputy Attorney General
412 West WashingtonBoise, Idaho 83120-0074
,tr
APPEARANCES
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INDEX
WITNESS EXAM]NATION BY PAGE
Rebecca Hol-1and
( Publ1c )
Statement 6
Sparrow Ivy
( Public )
Statement B
Stephen Lockwood
( Public )
Statement 11
Jane FrtLz
( Publ- ic )
Statement 72
Susan Beard
( Public )
Statement 15
Mo11y O'Riley
( Public )
Statement 71
Sandy Piltch
( Public )
Statement 20
Art Piltch
( Public )
Statement 2L
David Heep
( PubIic )
Statement 24
Richard Warren
( Public )
Statement 26
Clare Stansberry
( Public )
Statement 29
Vaughn Gaddis
( Public )
Statement 30
Emily Cleveland
( Public )
Statement 34
Matthew NykieI
( Public )
31Statement
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INDEX
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CSB REPORTING
(208 ) 890-5198
INDEX (Conti-nued)
W]TNESS EXAMINATION BY PAGE
Linda Larson
( Public )
Statement 42
James LeTellier
( Public )
Statement 45
Nancy Gerth
( Publ1c )
Statement 49
Ethan Eisenberg
( Public)
Statement 50
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INDEX
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CSB REPORTING
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1
BOTSE, TDAHO, THURSDAY, NOVEMBER 2, 20L1, B:00 p. M
COMMISSIONER KJELLANDER: Well,, good
evening. This is the time and place for a telephonic
pub11c hearing in Case No. AVU-E-17-08, also known as j-n
the matter of Avista Corporation's 2071 El-ectric
Integrated Resource Plan. My name is Paul- Kjellander.
I'l-l- be the Chairman of tonight's proceedings. I'm a
Commi-ssioner at the Idaho Public Utilities Commission.
Wj-th me, f'm joined by Commissioner Krlstine Raper and
Commissioner Eric Anderson. The three of us comprise the
Commj-ssion and we will ultimately make the final-
determination in the case once j-t's fully submitted.
Let's first touch on the purpose of
tonight's proceedings. Tonight we are here to take
public testi-mony from members of the public regarding the
case. This is an opportunity for members of the public
to get their statement entered into the record that
ultimately assists the Commission in its dellberation
process.
As further background, the Commission
serves in a similar capacity as a district court. Werre
here as adjudicators of the case and this evening's
public testimony will help create a ful1y-developedo25
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CSB REPORTING
(208 ) 890-s198
record. We're not here today to pass judgment on
the official-comments or statements made as part of
record. The Commissj-oners serve as judges and,
accordlngly, do not answer questions related to the case
other than questions regarding procedure.
The Commj-ssion wi-11- not begin to
deliberate on the merits of thi-s case until the official
record is closed.
judges, only speaks
the final ruling on
somewhat different
AdditionalJ-y,
through its
this matter.
than
orders as it relates to
that we are looking at
to address some of the
the Commission, l-ike
Procedurally, this 1s
what we have historically done in
a telephonj-c public hearing to try
concerns raised about access to
the Commission and, hopefully, this will provj-de us a
forum that could in fact be beneficial, agai-n, as we
develop the pubJ-ic record.
However, what I want to also state is
because we I re using technology, there's always an
opportunity for a glitchr So if something should happen
and you get kicked off the system and can't get back in
when we call your name, you can always submit your
comments written either through our website or send them
directly to us and it will be included as part of the
official record as welI.
We have quite a few people who have
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CSB REPORTING
(208 ) 890-s198
3
decided that they would like to testify tonight and we
certaj-nly appreciate you being on the line this evening,
but because we have quite a few folks, it's our hope that
as we go through your name and we get you on the record
that if someone has already saj-d what you want to sdy, go
ahead'and you can mirror that someone else has already
made the majority of your points and you agree with them
or di-sagree, depending on your posltion, but you want to
add something new, and that way we can move forward and
try to get through everyone and also try to get the
diversity that many of you will bring to the table this
evenl-ng in the form of your public testimony.
As we begin this evening, I wil-l try to
call- your name, and what I'm going to tell you up front
is that I will likely make some errors in trying to
pronounce your name, but if it sounds even remotely
cl-ose, please jump in when your phone is unmuted and
we'll go from there, so the process will be is that I'l-l
cal-l your name and then I will- ask you to spell your
name, and I wiII also, then, dsk you if you are a
customer of Avista. I'11 qet your address and then I
will- swear you in and the swearing-in process is simply
you're about todo you swear or
provide wiII be
and, hopefully,
affirm the testimony
the whole truth and
your answer to that
nothing but the truth
will- be yes and then25
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CSB REPORTING
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4
we will go ahead and take your testimony for the public
record.
Al-so, just so that you know, we have a
because this is a case that's judicial in nature, we have
a court reporter. Her name is Connie Bucy and so she is
going to be taking down everything that you say. There
may be an opportunity for me to actually ask you to slow
down if you're going too fast, so please try to keep in
mind that we do have a court reporter and we do need to
develop a transcript in the process of developing the
official record.
Once you've offered your comment, your
testimony, at that polnt, then, the Commissioners wil-l-
have an opportunity to ask you a question or two. It's
called cross-examination, but that's a harsher term than
it needs to be, quite honestly. Most of them are merely
cl-arification questions in nature. We don't assume that
any of you are calling with the intent that you're expert
wi-tnesses. This is a public hearing and so we recognize
that as we move forward, so I believe that we're ready
now to go ahead and call our first witness and I belj-eve
that will- be Rebecca HoL1and. Rebecca, are you there?
THE AUDIENCE: A brief comment that I
belj-eve someone may have been muted and they actually
Gerth. She's on awant to testify. Her name is NancyO25
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CSB REPORTING
(208 ) 890-s198
different line. I just want to let you know and I'11-
give the mic over to Rebecca.
COMMISSfONER KJELLANDER: Thank you very
much. Rebecca, are you there?
MS. HOLLAND: Yes, I'm here
COMMISSIONER KJELLANDER :
you for the record just say your name and
us?
Rebecca, could
spe1l it for
MS. HOLLAND: Rebecca Holland,
R-e-b-e-c-c-a H-o-1-1-a-n-d.
COMMISSIONER KJELLANDER: Thank you,
Rebecca, and what is your address?
MS. HOLLAND: 872 Lake Street 1n
Sandpoint.
COMMISSfONER KJELLANDER: Thank you, and
are you a customer of Avista?
MS. HOLLAND: Yes, my business is.
COMMI SSIONER KJELLANDER :
much, and now let me just swear you in
record.
Thank you very
officially for the
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CSB REPORTING
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6 HOLLAND
PubIic
appearing as
was examined
REBECCA HOLLAND,
a public witness, having been duly sworn,
and testified as follows:
COMMISSIONER KJELLANDER: Thank you very
much, Rebecca, and if you would, please offer us your
testimony and comments.
THE WITNESS: Okay;
long-time Avist.a customer and I 've
this issue and done some research
so I've been a
been kind of studying
on the Colstrip mj-ne,
me is it's the thirdand one of the things
highest pollutant in
that bothers
the country, and I know as
Iooking at for the future as future
want to encourage you to go toward
particularly knowing that you have
and two or something by 2022, so I
needs grow,
renewables,
to close the
think i-t's the smart
you're
I reaI1y
plant one
thing to do.
Things that need to be cal-culated into
this are envj-ronmental costs that don't always get
brought into p1ay, from flghting wil-dfires to
contaminated water and for so many reasons the risk of
continuing with coal is just not acceptable to me and I
hope that as a bill payer, I strongly advise you to l-ook
in the direction of renewables, so thank you for taking
my comments.a 25
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CSB REPORTTNG
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COMMISSIONER KJELLANDER: Thank you very
much, Rebecca. That was very concis'e and I really do
appreciate the clarity in which you made your poj-nts.
Let me see if there are any questions from members of the
Commj-ssion. f 'm seeing heads shake no. Again, Rebecca,
thank you for your testimony, we appreciate that.
THE WITNESS: Okay, thank you, appreciate
ir.
COMMISSIONER KJELLANDER: LetIs move Io
Sparrow fvy.
MS. IVY: Yes, hel-1o, good evening.
you for
for us?
COMMISSIONER KJELLANDER: Sparrow, coul-d
the record officially say your name and spell it
MS. IVY: My name is Sparrow Ivy. The
first name is spelled S-p-a-r-r-o-w. Last name is I-v-y.
COMMISSIONER KJELLANDER: Thank you, and
your address?
MS. IVY: My address is 66 Artisan Way,
A-r-t-i-s-a-n W.y, Sandpoint, Idaho.
COMMISSIONER KJELLANDER: Thank you, are
you a customer of Avista?
MS. IVY: You know, frm notr so Ifm not
sure if you want to take my comment.
COMMISSIONER KJELLANDER: We've got you
1 HOLLAND
Publ-ic
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CSB REPORTING(208) 890-s198
B IVY
Public
here,
we'll
why don't we go ahead and take your comment and
go from there. Let me first swear you in.
appearing as
was examined
SPARROW IVY,
a public witness, having been duly sworn,
and testified as follows:
COMMISSIONER KJELLANDER: Thank you. Sparrow,
please proceed.
THE WITNESS: Okay, I just made some
notes, so I'm lust going to read it. ft's probably the
easiest way. This is an important j-ssue to me, because f
want to be proud of what I pass on to the future, fly part
of it anyway. Even if it's painful or hard to do, it's
time, because continuj-ng to use coal j-s not a legacy to
end up Iinaudlb]-el. Environmentally, we're pumping
arsenj-c, mercury, and lead into our air and water. Werre
leavj-ng undrlnkable water, and as Rebecca said, this is
one of the largest contributors to greenhouse gases.
Financially, coal is becoming more costly
and requires more and more upkeep for a dying industry
and a crumbling infrastructure. It's throwing money into
a slow painfully dying j-ndustry instead of embracing a
globally sustainable world movement, a movement ful1 of
jobs and a healthier planet for our kids. I say l-etrs25
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CSB REPORTING
[phone]
9 ]VY
Public
put our money into investing in the future and would be
proud to pay extra if that was applicable into cleaning
the site up and retraining these people for jobs into the
future, so that's my comment.
Sparrow.
members of
COMMISSIONER KJELLANDER: Thank you,
Let me see if there are any questj-ons from
are no questions.
have your comments in
the Commission. There
Could you
writing,
those to
reporter
do me a favor since
would it be possible
us as well and we can
just in case we might
you
for you to perhaps
those to the
send
get
have mj-ssed anything?
Did I miss you
Thank you, sir.
KJELLANDER: Thank you very
court
puttlng out the address for that?
COMMISSIONER KJELLANDER: No, I think itrs
on our website, but when we do take a break, I can also
have Matt Evans, our public informati-on officer, perhaps
give you his direct email and that might make things
easier.
THE WITNESS: Actually, they just handed
me something that does have your website on there.
COMM] SS IONER KJELLANDER :Okay. WeI1,
any difficultyif you have
THE WITNESS: Sure.
that will work perfectly and
at all, just give us a cal-l-.
THE WTTNESS:
COMMISSIONER25
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CSB REPORTING(208) 890-s198
]VY
Public
much, appreciate your testimony.
THE WITNESS: Thank you, PaneI.
COMMISSIONER KJELLANDER: Let's move on
now to, I believe it's, Steve Lockwood.
MR. LOCKWOOD: That's correct.
COMMISSIONER KJELLANDER: Thank you,
Steve. Could you for the record please official-ly say
your name and spell it for us?
MR. LOCKWOOD: Stephen Lockwood,
S-t-e-p-h-e-n L-o-c-k-w-o-o-d.
COMMISSIONER KJELLANDER: Thank you, and
your address?
MR. LOCKWOOD: 473 St. Clair Avenue in
Sandpoint.
COMMISSIONER KJELLANDER: And are you a
customer of Avista?
MR. LOCKWOOD: I am
COMMISSIONER KJELLANDER: Thank you, and
let me swear you in officially for the record.
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CSB REPORTING
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LOCKWOOD
Publ-ic
STEPHEN LOCKWOOD,
appearing as a public witness, having been duly sworn,
was examined and testif ied as fol-lows:
COMMfSSIONER KJELLANDER: Thank you, and
Steve, if you wou1d, please, give us your comment and
testimony.
THE WITNESS: Certainly. 20 more years of
Colstrip is far too risky. Renewabl-es are getting l-ess
costly. In contrast, coal is getting more expensive,
especially considering the cleanup costs. Other
utilities are pulling out. I don't want to be stuck with
the risk. The transmissi-on Ii-nes can be reused for sol-ar
and wind. It doesn't make sense to stay with Colstrip.
Thank you.
much for your
any questions
none. Again,
testimony and
evening.
i-t' s Jane Frltz.
COMMfSSfONER KJELLANDER: Thank you very
testimony, Steve. Let's see if there are
from members of the Commission. There are
we appreciate your concise comments and
thank you for being with you us this
Let's move down the list and I bel-ieve
MS. FRITZ: Yes, sir.
COMMISSIONER KJELLANDER: Jane, could youo25
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FRITZ
PubIic
for the record official-Iy tell us your name and speIl it
for us?
MS. FRITZ: Yes, it's Jane ErrLz, J-a-n-e
F-r-i-t-2.
COMMISSIONER KJELLANDER: Thank you, Jane,
and your address, please?
MS. FRITZ: My physical address is 10547
West Pine Street and my mailing address is P.O. Box 24tg
and that's in Sandpoint, both of those addresses.
COMMISSfONER KJELLANDER: Thank you, Jane,
and are you a customer of Avista?
MS. ERITZ: Yes, f am a customer of
Avista.
COMMISSIONER KJELLANDER: Thank you, and
officially for the record, I need to swear you in.
appearing as
was examined
JANE FRITZ,
a public witness, having been duly sworn,
and testified as follows:
Jane, if you
testimony to
COMMI SS IONER KJELLANDER Thank you.
comment andwou1d, please, provide
us this evening.
THE WITNESS: I want.to give you just a
Iittl-e backdrop into my involvement over the years with
your
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CSB REPORT]NG(208) 890-s198
ER]TZ
PubIic
Avista, Lf I may. I actually served on the wil-dlife and
wetland working group for the FERC relicensing of
Avista's Clark Eork dams when it was Washington Water
Power, and I'm not sure how many years ago that is, cl-ose
probably to 20, but it was a two-and-a-ha1f-year process
and I was representing a wll-dfife group here and
vofunteered my time to participate in that.
I learned a l-ot about electricity
generation. I learned a l-ot about the grid that I didn't
know. I've also foll-owed Avista over the years with
their transmission project,
transmission lines go right
partly because
past my house
the new
and I've gotten
because
'm not ;ust
invol-ved with the Company over osprey nests,
that's an anlmal that's important to me, so
attention
I
a casual utility customer. f pay to their
email-s. I go down and tal-k with the guys every now and
then and the women.
I recently built a tiny home and
decided -- I chose Avista over solar, which I have lived
with in the past, partly because my carbon footprint is
very small and I intend to keep it that way. Like the
three former speakers, I echo a lot of their comments. I
am very concerned about climate change. I'm very
concerned that Colstrip is one of the largest polluters
j-n the country. For a year I llved for three seasonso25
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I lived near another one, the Navajo generating station,
because I work with tribes in our region here in north
Idaho, but I did spend some time down in Navajo, and I've
seen what coal- can do to people and to the land and to
the air, so f'm pretty much against it, and I do think
the lransition every month on my Avista bill, I pay a
litt1e for wind generation. I'm willing to do that even
though I'm a senior and live on a fixed j-ncome, and I
think for me, it's important to put money into the future
and I think that's what we're talking about here.
I think that hydro 1s obviously a big
portion of Avista's power, but when I look at their
breakdown, I see that coal- only represents 13 percent
annually and only nine percent in the winter, and if you
look at the biomass and wind, which I'm particularly
interested in, six percent annual1y, that's only hal-f of
what coal is and three percent in the winter, which is a
third, So, you know, to me, it does not make sense to
extend the life of Colstrip.
There are many compani-es pulling out ot,
you know, earlier spending money to transition the
workers. I worry about the tribes in that area. I just
think there are so many negatives for continuing at
Colstrip and with coal in our country. I think it is on
1ts way out. I think alternative energy is the future,
CSB REPORTING
(208 ) 890-s198
FRITZ
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CSB REPORTING(208) 890-s198
ERITZ
PubIic
so thank you for listening.
COMMISSIONER KJELLANDER: Thank you very
much, Jane, for your comments and testimony this evening.
Let me see if there any questions from members of the
Commission. There are no questions. Again, thank you
very much, and wetll move on now to our next witness,
Susan Beard.
MS. BEARD: HeI1o, S-u-s-a-n B-e-a-r-d.
COMMISSIONER K.IELLANDER: Thank you, and
your address?
MS. BEARD: Is 511 Hornby Place, Dover,
Idaho, and P.O. Box 473, Dover, Idaho, 83825.
COMMISSIONER KJELLANDER: Thank you, and
are you a customer of Avista?
MS. BEARD: I am.
COMMISSIONER KJELLANDER: And let's
officially get you on the record.
SUSAN BEARD,
appearing as a public witness, having been duly sworn,
was examined and testif ied as foll-ows:
COMMfSSIONER KJELLANDER: Thank you.
Wel-1 , if you wou1d, then, Susan, pJ-ease provide your
testimony this evening.o 25
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THE WITNESS: WeII, I've agreed with
everybody so far and f'm sure there will be people behind
me agreeing. I agree that this is an antiquated method,
coal-, and I hope to see not pursuing that. I think
that's ul-ti-mately very expensive and there are many, many
other expenses. I think there are better ways, but one
of my main concerns that I don't think some people will
bring up tonight is that this is affecting the farmers
and ranchers, and I'm from a farm family, and it is
definitely changing the water level when they harvest,
the way you call- it that, harvest the coal- and besides
polluting the air, the farmers are loslng their grazLng
rights for year-round and it just affects all that, plus
the whole environment of the earth, so I would like to
see that method stopped. Thank you.
COMMISSIONER KJELLANDER: Thank you,
Susan, and we don't have questions from members of the
Commission, so we appreciate your testimony. Thank you
for joining us this evening.
THE WITNESS: Thank you.
COMM]SSTONER KJELLANDER: Let'S move next
to Mo1Iy O'RiIey.
MS. O'RILEY: Hi.
COMMISSIONER KJELLANDER: Hi, Mo11y, could
you state your name and spe1l it for us for the record?
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O I RILEY
PubIic
MS. O'RILEY: IrlI be glad to. Molly is
M-o-l-1-y. O'Riley is O-'-R-i-1-e-y.
COMMISSIONER KJELLANDER: Thank you,
Mo11y, and could you te11 us your address?
MS. OTRILEY: Yes, 473 St. Cl-air Avenue,
Sandpoint, 83864.
COMMISSIONER KJELLANDER: And are you a
customer of Avista?
MS. OTRILEY: Definitely.
COMMISSIONER KJELLANDER: Okay, and let me
officially get you sworn in.
appearing as
was examined
MOLLY OIRILEY,
a public witness, having been duly sworn,
and testif ied as fol-l-ows:
COMMISSIONER
Mo11y, if you would provide
THE WTTNESS:
much to the Commission
KJELLANDER: Thank you,
your testimony.
Thank you and
Thank you.
thank you very
this way
from northern Idaho.
for letting us
I can't tell you
thlnk everybody
testify in
how much f
else does as well.appreciate
It gives us
and that's
appreciate
that and I
a real opportunity to be part of the process
part of our birth right and we rea1Iy
it. The IRP, the 20L'l IRP, on its very firsto25
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page has some highlights. One is that energy storage
costs are down significantly, which makes newer
technology really much more vafuable.
Avista is working
megawatt solar facility, whJ-ch is
estimates conservation wil-l- serve
to construct a 15
wonderful. It
53.3 percent of future
exciting, but its first
current generation resources
reliable sources of power to
over the next 20 years, and as
is very questionable, and as a
load growth,
highllght is
remain cost
which is very
that Avistars
effectlve and
meet future customer needs
far as Colstrip goes, that
ratepayer, I feel- qulte vul-nerable.
I donrt think it's prudent to consider
Colstrip reliable for 20 years when the largest owner,
Puget Sound Energy, is financially preparing to leave
Colstrip Ln 2027 . Thatrs 10 years and the Oregon-based
owners of Portl-and General El-ectrlc and PacifiCorp are
required by Oregon Iaw to be out by 2030. What's going
to happen? How is Avista going to cope with al-l- of this?
Does it mean that it will run the plant and have all the
maintenance costs and wiII it be selling energy
el-sewhere?
The plants are getting ol-der by the year.
This doesn't look prudent to me and particularly as sol-ar
and wind and biomass are becoming cheaper and able to beO25
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CSB REPORT]NG(208) 890-s198
O I RILEY
PubIic
transmitted and stored, I think thatrs the way we need to
go for me as a ratepayer to feel like this is a prudent,
just, and reliable way of generating energy for 20 years.
Thank you.
COMMISSIONER KJELLANDER: Thank you and we
appreciate
quest j-ons
thanks for
your testimony this
from members of the
evening, and there are no
Commission, so, again,
your testimony this evening.
THE WITNESS: You're very we.l-come.
COMMISSIONER KJELLANDER: Let's move next
to Sandy Pil-tch.
MS. PILTCH: Sandy Piltch and I live at 87
Rock Road, Sandpoint, Idaho, and I'm an Avista
customer.
COMMISS IONER KJELLANDER :Sandy, could I
it for us?have you actually say your name and spell
MS. PILTCH: Sure, Sandy, S-a-n-d-y,
Piltch, P-i-1-t-c-h.
COMMISSIONER KJELLANDER: Thank you, and
let me get you sworn in officially for the record.
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CSB REPORTING(208) 890-s198
P]LTCH
Public
SANDY PILTCH,
appearing as a public witness, having been duly sworn,
was examined and testified as fol-lows:
COMMISSIONER KJELLANDER: Thank you,
Sandy, if you would provide your testimony.
THE WITNESS: Okay, basically I agree with
everything that's been said already and so Irm not going
to repeat it and I think it's important that we l-ook
towards alternative energy into the future and the
environment is reaIly important to me. Thank you.
COMMISSIONER KJELLANDER: Thank you,
Sandy. We appreciate your testimony and thank you, too,
for your concise presentation.
THE WITNESS: Thank you. Have a good
day -
COMMISSIONER KJELLANDER: You, too. Let's
move now next to Art Piltch.
MR. PILTCH: Hello.
COMMISSIONER KJELLANDER: Art, if you
could say and speIl your name for us for the record.
MR. PILTCH: Art Pil-tch, A-r-t
P-i-1-t-c-h.
COMMISSIONER KJELLANDER: And your
address?o 25
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Public
MR. PILTCHz 87 Rock Road, Sandpoint.
COMMISSIONER KJELLANDER: And are you a
customer of Avista?
MR. PILTCH: Yes, I am.
COMMISSIONER KJELLANDER
Art, officially for the record, l-et me
Thank you,
swear you i-n
and,
appearing as
was examined
ART PILTCH,
a public witness, having been duly sworn,
and testif ied as fol-l-ows:
COMMI SS IONER KJELLANDER :
if you could please provide us
THE WITNESS: I
with your
am concerned about the
Thank you, Art,
testimony.
impact of j-ncreased level-s of greenhouse gas on our
cl-imate. Flooding, destructive tropical storms, deadly
heat waves, drought, and devastation to our forests from
wil-df ires and j-nsects are now becoming commonplace.
Climate projections indicate that these events and
especially sea l-evel rise will get much worse unl-ess we
can eli-minate most of the emissions from fossil fuel-
combustion. The COZ that we emit today stays in the
atmosphere for centuries. Al-so , 90 percent of the extra
heat trapped by these gases is absorbed by the ocean
where it wil-l- accel-erate meltj-ng of polar ice foro25
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centuries even after atmospheric CO2 is stabilized.
Therers also a good possibility that the
extra heat in the oceans wil-l- affect globaI ocean and
atmospheric cJ-rculation, which wil-l- have profound effects
on our climate, wdy beyond what is being projected. This
is why we have to take urgent action to reduce greenhouse
gas emissions as soon as we can. The costs of cl-imate
change for present and future human suffering are not
taken into account in Avistars l-atest Integrated Resource
Plan.
While they are not required to take these
costs into accountr ds a customer, I feel that they are
doing me a disservice by not taking all reasonable
measures to reduce emissions, while still provj-ding
reliabl-e service. In particular, coal-fired power
plants, which are the worst emitters, are being retired
aII over the country. Yet Avista plans to keep their
share of the Colstrip plant operational for the entire
2)-year period of this plan.
They point out that there will be
consj-derable costs associated with new generation
capacity as soon as the Colstrip plant is retired, but
that new capacity will- be required sooner or later 1n any
case. With earlier retirement, a large amount of
greenhouse gas emlssj-on can be avoj-ded. P1anned costs
CSB REPORT]NG(208) 890-s198
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CSB REPORTING(208) 890-s198
PILTCH
Public
for capital improvement, operation, and maintenance could
be avoided, and what about cleanup costs which Avista
will- be solely responsible for when the other util-ities
that share ownership of the plant divest?
The share of electric power from the
retired coal plant could be replaced with wind and so1ar,
which are coming down i-n cost. At the same time, the
cost of power storage is coming down, which will- make it
easier to integrate these resources. As the IRP
j-ndicates, demand response is another approach to easJ-ng
the need for peak power. As for new transmission
requirements, the same e.l-ectric lines that transmit power
from Colstrip could be used to transmit wind power from
eastern Montana, which is one of the more favorable
regions in the nation for wind.
I commend Avista for their conservation
efforts and for meeting Washington State's clean energy
requirements, but I am disappointed with their plans for
Colstrip. Thank you.
COMMISSIONER KJELLANDER :Thank you, Art.
If it's possible,
writj-ng, it might
and the official
via email. Woul-d that be possibl-e?
THE WITNESS: Certainly.
have the material- init sounds like you
be benefici-al for our court reporter
record if you coul-d also send that to us
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CSB REPORTING
(208 ) 890-s198
HEEP
Publ-ic
COMMISSIONER KJELLANDER: Thank you very
much, Art. We certainly appreclate it and thanks again
for your testimony this evening.
Let's move to Dave
MR. HEEP: My
COMM]SSIONER
name
Heep.
is David Heep, H-e-e-p.
KJELLANDER: H-e-e-p?
MR. HEEP' I'P, as in Peter, yes, sir.
COMMISSIONER KJELLANDER: Thank you, and
your address?
Lane,
MR. HEEP: My physical address is 332 Park
Sandpoint, Idaho, 83864. My mailing address is
Box 513, Pend Oreil-le, Idaho, 83852.
COMMISSIONER KJELLANDER: Thank you, and
P.O
are you a customer of Avista?
MR. HEEP: I am
COMMISSIONER KJELLANDER: Thank you. Let
me officially get you sworn in for the record.
appearing as
was examined
DAVID HEEP,
a public witness, having been duly sworn,
and testif ied as f ol-1ows:
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COMMISSIONER KJELLANDER: Thank you.
Please proceed and offer us your testimony.
THE WfTNESS: The whole world is
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(2oB ) 890-s198
HEEP
Public
transitioning to green cl-ean energy. The Colstrip plant
is aging and wil-l- require very expensi-ve maintenance and
upgrades and eventually even more expensive cleanup
costs. All of these are going to have to borne by me, a
ratepayer. I'm opposed to investing in a dying industry
such as coal-. I support all of the statements made by
people that have preceded me. Thank you very much.
COMMISSIONER KJELLANDER: Thank you, and I
appreciate the concise of nature of your testimony.
Thanks again for joining us this evenj-ng.
THE WITNESS: Thank you.
COMMISSIONBR KJELLANDER: Letrs call now
Richard Warren.
MR. WARREN: This is Richard Warren.
COMM]SSIONER KJELLANDER:Richard, could
the record?you say your name and spell
WARREN:Richard Warren, R-i-c-h-a-r-d
W-a-r-r-e-n.
COMMISSIONER KJELLANDER: Thank you,
Richard, and your address, please?
MR. WARREN: Physical address is 2L0 East
Flamlngo Road, Sandpoint, Idaho, 83864.
COMMISSIONBR KJELLANDER: And are you a
customer of Avista?
MR. WARREN: No, I am not.
it for us for
MR
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(208 ) B9o-s198
WARREN
Public
COMMISSIONER KJELLANDER: We will go ahead
and take your testimony this evening wlth that in mind
and l-et me get you officialiy sworn in for the record.
appearing as
was examined
RTCHARD WARREN,
a public witness, having been duly sworn,
and testif ied as fol-l-ows:
COMMISSIONER KJELLANDER: Thank you.
Please proceed wlth your testimony.
THE WITNESS: I would l-1ke to recommend
that PSE reduce its percentage of power generation by
coal and rather drasti-cally increase wind and solar. I
understand that the Powder River Basin recei-ves very
l-ittle precipitation and is very suitabl-e
solar, especially since the transmi-ssion
exist. I think that PSEts share of the
should al-so be greatly increased since
amount of money they pledge provides
for wind and
lines already
costs
pond
the
much
contamination, which means that
end of the llfe of the plant would
greater, thereby increasing power
I have read in National-
Munich, Germany, provides a great dea]
They getalternative energy sources.
cleanup
it sounds l-ike the
only for coal ash
Avista's share at
likeIy be very
rates af ter al-l-.
Geographic that
of its power from
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CSB REPORTING
(208 ) 890-s198
WARREN
Public
of the country and solar from the south and they actually
plan on producing 100 percent of their power from
al-ternative sources by the year 2025. In light of facts
like these, I say why not cl-ose Colstrip rapidly and
spend the money on alternatj-ve energy instead, thereby
ratepayers would like1y not bear a great expense while
the money could be invested in retraining for jobs in
thj-s area of unprecedented atmospherLc CO2 content and
oceanic warming. Contj-nued coal burning, especially at
Colstrip, would just exacerbate cl-imate change and delay
our transition to a green economy. Thank you.
COMMISSIONER KJELLANDER: Thank you. We
do have a questj-on from a member
Commissioner Raper, do you have a
COMMISSIONER RAPER
clarificatj-on, were you saylng
Puget Sound Energy?
THE W]TNESS: I
Avista, but I misspoke there.
you said PSE, you intended
COMMISSIONER
of the Commission.
question?
I do. Just a quick
1i ke
KJELLANDER: We'll- take that
PSE as in "echo, "
meant to say actually
COMMISSIONER RAPER: Okay; so each time
it to be Avista.
as a subject to check, so thank you
COMMISSIONER RAPER: Thank
COMMISSIONER KJELLANDER :
you -
Thank you, Mro25
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Warren. Any other questions from members of the
Commission? None. Thank you again for your testimony.
THE WITNESS: Thank you.
COMMISSIONER KJELLANDER: Next up we have
Clare and your last name starts, I believe, wj-th an "Sr "
but I am not going to be able to pronounce it because my
handwriting is 11legible. Clare, are you there?
MS. STANSBERRY: I'm here. My name is
Clare, C-1-a-r-e, Stansberry, S-t-a-n-s-b-e-r-r-y.
COMMISSIONER KJELLANDER: Thank you for
clearing that up for me, and could you also give me your
address?
MS. STANSBERRY: My address is 7275
Superior Street, Sandpoint.
COMMISSIONER KJELLANDER: Thank you, and
are you a customer of Avista?
MS. STANSBERRY: I am.
COMMISSIONER KJELLANDER: Thank you, and
let me get you sworn in offlclally for the record.
CSB REPORTTNG(208) 890-s198
WARREN
PubIic
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[phone]
STANSBERRY
Publ-ic
appearing as
was examined
CLARE STANSBERRY,
a public witness, having been duly sworn,
and testif ied as f oll-ows:
COMMISSIONER KJELLANDER: Thank you very
much, Cl-are, if you could please provide your comment and
testimony for us tonight.
THE WITNESS: I agree with all that has
been previously said. I just wanted to add it just seems
economically irresponsible to make a 20-year plan that
doesn't account for cleanup costs or for shifts in how we
actually need to produce and maintain these energy
systems that we have in p1ace. Allotting for transition
to renewable energy sources, allotting for money to clean
up after our coal--related power plant isn't in existence
seems critical for a 2)-year p1an.
COMMISSIONER KJELLANDER: Thank your and
are there any questions from members of the Commission?
None. Thank you very much for your testimony this
evening, Clare, and, again, we appreciate the concise
nature of your comments.
Let's call- now Faughn Gaddis.
MR. GADDIS: He1lo. Would you l-ike me to
speI1 my name for you?
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GADDISPublic
going to have to, because I don't think your name is
Faughn. f'd be willing to bet it's Vaughn.
MR. GADDIS: That's correct. It's
V-a-u-g-h-n. Last name is Gaddis, G-a-d-d-i-s.
COMMISSIONER KJELLANDER: Thank you, and
your address, please?
MR. GADDIS: 407 South Florence Avenue,
Sandpoint.
COMMISSIONER KJELLANDER: Thank you, and
are you a customer of Avj-sta?
MR. GADDIS: f am
COMMISSIONER KJELLANDER: Thank you, and
l-et me officially get you on the record.
VAUGHN GADD]S,
appearing as a public witness, having been duly sworn,
was examined and testif 1ed as f ol-l-ows:
COMMISSIONER KJELLANDER: Thank you very
much. Please provide us your testimony.
THE WITNESS: So I'm goi-ng to take a
sJ-ightly different approach. We obviously, I think, have
come across
especially
second her
with the environmental aspect pretty we1I,
I very,with Mo1ly
statements
O'RiIey.
prior to mine. On
very firmly
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CSB REPORTING(208) 890-s198
GADD]S
Public
scale, the Harvard Medical-
it costs the United States
billion yearly for coal
that's a whole number.
School produced
a total of about
a study that
$330-500
production and I do understand
It's not just related to
those
Colstrip, but I would believe it's safe to say thatrs a
a fot ofIot of money either
costs are not
look at it, and
the coal lndustry. They're
very good at external-Lzing costs to other resources.
You've got water cleanup that is typically
burdened by the state or in this case with Puget Sound
and probably Avj-sta further on down the l-ine, it wil-l- be
generalized to them and they're going to be responsible
for a huge load of those costs. You've got medicine
costs from people belng exposed to environmental dangers
and disasters. You have property val-ues that are greatly
reduced, which we've seen across the country now, and we
have j-nfrastructure damages, which may be l-ess at
Colstrip seeing as they ar e kind of a one-stop-shop for
remaj-ns that there are a huge,
way you
borne by
coal, but still, the idea
huge, swath of cosLs that
probably not being taken
whereas, wJ-th other forms
renewable power like, you
nuclear, for that matter,
far, far 1ess, especially
are related to coal that are
into account in this instancei
of energy where you might have
know, wind and solar or even
the operatj-ona1 costs are far,
over a 2)-year period, 30-,o 25
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CSB REPORTTNG
(208 ) 890-s198
GADDIS
Public
40-, 50-, 100-year period.
You're looking at bill-ions and billlons of
unexpected costs, whi-ch you simply donrt have, because
solar and wind don't cause pollutions. They don't cause
damages. They don't cause infrastructure issues, and I
think that's a really important aspect to consider.
You're looking at with Nos. 3 and 4 in Colstrip about 1 40
megawatts of annual power. Doing a quick calculation for
a two megawatt wind turbine, it costs upwards of about $a
million to install it. That puts to replace the entirety
of that plant with entirely wind and not including solar,
but;ust wind, at about $1.5 bll-Iion, which sounds like a
Iot up front, but
country spending
again, I wish I
when you're looking at the
as much as $500 billion each
could give you an exact number
enti-re
year,
for
Colstrlp, but there are not a lot of numbers to be had
there, I think that that cost is significantly lower.
It is worth considering that that may put
jobs out of place and displace them, but f think that our
economics are strong enough that that is going to be less
of a concern. You know, we had lamplighters in the early
1900's lighting gas lamps on every corner and they were
replaced with el-ectric lights and I donrt think anyone is
complaining about that anymore. I bel-ieve that werve
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they al-so don't cause entire citi-es to burn down, so I
would just l-ike to state that I think there needs to be
more research done into externalizLng costs from coal and
how that's going to affect it. Thank you.
COMMISSIONER KJELLANDER: Thank you,
Vaughn. Let me see i-f there are any questions from
members of the Commission. No questions on our end.
Thank you, again, for your testimony this evening.
THE WITNESS: Thank you.
COMMISSIONER KJELLANDER: Let's call next
Emily Cleveland. Emily?
MS. CLEVELAND: Hi- .
COMMISSIONER KJELLANDER: Hi, EmiIy, if
you coul-d state your name and spel1 it for us, please.
MS. CLEVELAND: Sure, it's EmiIy,
E-m-i-1-y, Cleveland, C-1-e-v-e-1-a-n-d.
COMMISSIONER KJELLANDER: Thank you, and
your address, please?
MS. CLEVELAND: L275 Superior Street.,
Sandpoint, Idaho, 83864.
COMMISSIONER KJELLANDER: And are you a
customer of Avista?
MS. CLEVELAND: I am.
COMMISSIONER KJELLANDER: Thank you, and
l-et me get you officially sworn in on the record.
CSB REPORT]NG
(2oB ) B9o-5198
GADD]S
Publ-ic
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CSB REPORTING(208) 890-s198
CLEVELAND
Public
EMILY CLEVELAND,
appearing as a public witness, having been duly sworn,
was examined and testified as follows:
COMMISSIONER KJELLANDER: Thank you.
PIease offer us your testimony.
THE WITNESS: Okay. One of the things
that I'm really concerned about with the IRP is the
apparent lack of financial foresight when it comes to
Colstrip. fn the fRP, I didn't see any consideration of
the costs of environmental cleanup or community
transition, and I think these are rea11y important costs
that are going to come at some point for the ratepayers,
and the other, you know, the largest owner of Colstrip,
Puget Sound Energy, has already begun talking about the
amounts that they are going t.o set aside for those costs,
and I think it's only responsible that Avista start to
make those plans as wel-l.
I think to put that off is to jeopardize
the ratepayers and, you know, I as a ratepayer am
concerned about that. I don't know when that cost will
be coming, and 'in addition, you know, if you look at the
energy market, you can see that coal is becoming more and
more expensive and that's playing out around the country.
You can see coal plants shutting down all- over the place,O 25
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CSB REPORTING
[phone]
CLEVELAND
Publ-ic
and I think statements by other of the owners talking
about how many millions of dollars theyrre losing every
year on Co1strip, I'm referring to Talen in particul-ar
testifying in front of the Montana State Legislature, but
al-so the early cl-osure dates that several of the other
owners are planning on, I thlnk that indicates that
Colstrip is going to be on a downward trajectory, and the
way Avista is planning for it in their IRP does not show
that at all, and I think that's real-ly concerning for me
as a ratepayer, because I want to make sure that they
have an accurate picture of where Colstrip is headed.
I think first and foremost the most
reasonable thing Avist.a can do is to accel-erate the debt
schedule to match Puget Sound Energy's debt schedul-e. I
think not doing that either assumes that Avista is
to take on a larger share of the maintenance costs
that owner pu1ls out or it assumes that ratepayers
going
when
are
going
plant
those
to continue to pay for
has closed its doors,
scenarios are acceptable.
Colstrip long after that
and I don't think either of
I think Avista needs to start making
financial preparations now and accelerating that debt
schedule in line with the largest owner of Colstrip. I
think that that is a very reasonable and prudent thing
for Avista to do, and it would make me feel a lot more25
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comfortable if I knew that Avista was making the
financial preparations in line with some of the other
owners and also in line with the way that the energy
market is trending across the country, so I hope that
Avista wil-l consider and I hope the PUC will consider the
well--being of the ratepayers and that those financial
considerations should be made. Thank you.
COMMISSIONER KJELLANDER: Thank you,
Emi-1y, and certainly do appreclate your comments this
evening.
Let's call next Matt Nykiel.
MR. NYKIEL: ICL will be submitting formal
comments onl-iner so I'm going to give these comments in
my individual capacity as a customer.
COMMISSIONER KJELLANDER: Excel-Ient. If I
could get you to state your name and spell it for us for
the record.
THE WITNESS: Matthew Nykiel,
M-a-t-t-h-e-w N-y-k-i-e-1.
COMMISSIONER KJELLANDER: Thank you, and
your address, please?
MR. NYKIEL: 123 North EIIa Avenue, Apartment
t, Sandpoint, Idaho, 83854.
COMMISSIONER KJELLANDER: And you're an
Avista customer?
CSB REPORTING(208) 890-5198
CLEVELAND
Public
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CSB REPORTING
(208 ) 890-5198
NYKIEL
Public
MR. NYKIEL: I am.
COMMISSIONER KJELLANDER: Let me
officially get you sworn 1n.
appearing as
was examined
MATTHEW NYKIEL,
a public witness, having been duly sworn,
and testified as follows:
COMMISSIONER KJELLANDER: Thank you.
Matthew, if you could please provj-de your comments.
THE WITNESS: Yeah, I want to tal-k
specifically, and I agree with all of the comments that
came before, so I want to talk a litt1e bit about the
methodology applied in the IRP. I think the Commission
is famlliar with the analysis that other utilities such
as Idaho Power have used to conslder different generating
resources like coal plants, and fdaho Power and other
utilities have often found that retirj-ng coal plants
earlj-er actually save ratepayers money in the long term,
and just to describe that methodology a littl-e bit, it
starts out with the idea that coal plants are part of an
overall energy grid utility system, and when you retj-re
or end the use of one of those parts of the system, other
exj-sting resources fill in the gaps in some ways and
create replacement power, and in some cases there are25
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CSB REPORTING
(208 ) 890-5198
NYKIEL
Publ-ic
stil-I replacement needs, so that's the first step is
real-iztnq what happens when you retire a coal- plant at a
certain time and how the existing resources fill that
need.
The next step
so how doretiring the p1ant,existing
so if wedifferent time 1ines,replace
in 2030 howif we retire Colstrip j-n 2025,
would the different resources that are already existing
respond to that and fitl in the gaps, and the last step
is when we address the gaps in the energy that we need,
we can use different portfolios of new generating
resources to address the gaps and how do those different
portfolios fill the gaps, which ones are the most cost
effective, which ones are the most rel-iabl-e and meet the
needs of ratepayers, and Idaho Power and other utilities
have identifled different portfolios and they found that
there are least cost options that often donrt include
coal-, so I think thatrs the basic methodology that Avista
should apply and didn't apply in their IRP, so I woul-d
encourage the Commission to encourage Avista to util-ize
and apply that same sort of methodology 1n their own IRP
analysis.
What Avista has given us is flawed,
because it preselects the replacement portfolio, in
is different time lines for
the resources
respond at
Col st rip
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CSB REPORT]NG(208) 890-s198
NYKIEL
PubIic
essence, which Avista assumes is a natural gas pIant. It
assumes that j-f we retire Colstrip, the only thing we can
replace it with j-s a natural gas p1ant, and this matters,
because the sol-e f ocus of Avistars deci-sion i-n their IRP
is based on the fact that power supply costs increase if
Colstrip closes, and this isn't surprising if the only
thing you're analyzing is replacing the Colstrip plant
with a gas plant instead of finding the least cost
portfolio of options to supplement Co1strip, so just to
reiterate what I think the Commission should encourage
Avista to do in this IRP and in future IRP's is to
operate their model-, which is call-ed AURORA, to forecast
how Avista dispatches the system without dispatches
the energy system without Colstrip.
Second, to identify the timing and scale
of any resource needs that appear on the system without
Colstrip, and third, deslgn replacement portfolios that
fill this resource need using dlverse resources,
includlng energy efficiency, market purchases, solar,
wind, et cetera.
I'd also like to say that
how Avistamodel could apply to
structure the cost of
depending on whether
analyzing
electricity on Idaho
other utility owners
this sort of
is going to
ratepayers
of Colstrip
what point theydivest their interests in Colstrip and ato25
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CSB REPORTING(208) 890-s198
NYKIEL
Publ-ic
do that
sharing,
has been
to do that as Idaho
meetings and in the
stakeholder groups.
recommendation into
finally, I'd like to say
to, as Idaho Power does,requested
different generating resources
provided in the IRP, and often
and how Avi-sta will- meet the reduction in cost
and then that Avista
compare the
in a tableside by
it's the
slde
case in the IRP
that Avista doesnrt provide a side-by-side analysis of,
for example, the costs of coal energy compared to the
cost of wind energy compared to the cost of natural- 9ds,
et cetera.
That should aII be provided and the
Commission is well aware having dealt with Idaho Power's
IRP that this can be done in a single table where you can
see the differences and input costs and operation costs
and the overal-l- annual-ized l-evel- the overall- l-evel-ized
cost of different resource options and it can reaIIy
provide the public with a better understanding of how
these different generating resources stack up next to one
another.
Avista has been recommended and requested
done both in stakeholder
that was issued to
Avista did not take that
consideration and
Power has
draft IRP
encourage the
put thls into
Commlssion to hopefully
pract j-ce and that's the
apply it. I would
encourage Avista to
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COMMISSIONER KJELLANDER: Thank you. Are
there any questions from members of the Commission? We
have no questions here. Thank you, Matthew, and we
appreciate your comments this evening.
THE WITNESS: Thank you.
COMMISSIONER KJELLANDER: Let's move next
to Linda Larson. Linda, are you there, Linda?
MS. LARSON: Yes. Can you hear me?
COMMISSIONER KJELLANDER: We can now and
if you could say your name and spe1l it for us for the
record.
MS. LARSON: Yes, it's Linda Larson,
L-i-n-d-a L-a-r-s-o-n.
COMMISSIONER KJELLANDER: Thank you, and
your address, please?
MS. LARSON: 601 South Division,
Sandpoint, Idaho, and yes, f am an Avista customer and
have been on and off for 36 years.
COMMISSIONER KJELLANDER: Thank you and
let me get you officially sworn in.
CSB REPORTING(208) 890-s198
NYKIEL
Public
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CSB REPORTING
(208 ) 890-s198
LARSON
Public
LINDA LARSON,
appearing as a public witness, having been first duly
sworn, testified as follows:
COMMISSIONER KJELLANDER: Thank you.
Please provide your testimony.
THE WITNESS: Okay, I would al-so like to
thank the Commission for thls opportunity to testify in
this matter, and I appreciate Mo11y's work that she did
and the information that she provided and agree with
everything. I just appreciate everybody else who has
done so much work on t.his. Matt has done a l-ot of
research,
especially
sounds Iike
country
percent
I want
switch
obviously.
do not want
Firstr ds an Avista customer, I
to pay for the cleanup that
to be on the hook for, and
ir
we're going I
really am seriously kind of baffled at why Avista would
stay in when they know these other companies are going to
puII out, so first of all, that concerns me as a
ratepayer.
Second, as a
to join the rest of
globa1 cj-tizen, I want our
the world and move to 100
renewabl-es as soon as possible,
my power company to do everything
to 100 percent renewables. As a
so specifically,
possible to
already paying extra. I pay a company
customer, ftm
cal-l-ed Arcadia SOO25
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CSB REPORTTNG
(2oB) 890-5198
LARSON
PubIic
that they can provide wind generation to Avista. I'm on
a fixed j-ncome and it does cost me more money and I'm
willing to do that, and as an Avista customer, I would be
willing to pay more on my monthly power bill if I knew
that that money was being spent because they need that
money to make the switch over to renewables, so
specifically, I would l-ike the coal- plant situation to
end as quickly as possible.
There are 150 cities in the United States
now that have made a commitment to be completely run by
renewable energy. There are four cities that have
already made it. Burlington, Vermont, Greensburg,
Kansas, Aspen, Colorado, and Georgetown, Texas, all run
100 percent on renewable energy. There's no reason why
Avista can't work towards that. ft's already been done.
It's being done and proven. We can do this, so that's
something I want done as a customer. I want to see them
move forward.
My daughter right now
Ph.D. from Oregon State University 1n
She's shared her research with me and
is receiving her
cl-imate research.
ir is frightening
needs to takeand I think this is somethi-ng
into consideration. Itrs not
cents today. It's looking out
what is this going to do, how
and saying
is this golng to impact
that Avista
just, you know,
in the future
dollars and
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CSB REPORT]NG(208) 890-s198
LARSON
Public
generations down the
just a 2)-year p1an.
comments.
the much bigger situation than
generational and those are my
line,
It's
COMMISSfONER KJELLANDER: Thank you,
Linda. We appreciate you jolning us this evening and
thanks again for your comments.
THE WITNESS: Thank you
COMMISSfONER KJELLANDER: I think we're
ready next for James, 1s it, LeTeIIier?
MR. LETELLIER: That's close, LeTellier.
ftrs pretty good, pretty good.
COMMISSIONER KJELLANDER: WelI, if we
could get you to official-Iy give us your name and
spelling, that will help us even more.
MR. LETELLIER: You bet, so James,
J-a-m-e-s, my last name is L-e-T-e-1-l--i-e-r.
COMMISSIONER KJELLANDER: Thank you, and
your address, please.
MR. LETELLIER: My address is 1320 North
Murray, M-u-r-r-d-y, Lane in Liberty Lake, Washington,
and I am an Avist.a customer here.
COMMISSIONER KJELLANDER: Okay, and let me
get you officially sworn in for the record.
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CSB REPORTING
(208 ) 890-s198
LETELLIER
Public
appearing as
was examined
JAMES LETELLIER,
a public wj-tness, having been duly sworn,
and testif ied as fol-l-ows:
COMMISSIONER KJELLANDER: Thank you.
Please provide your testimony.
THE WITNESS: So I had a bunch of notes
here and everybody pretty much said everythlng that I was
going to sdy, so I've been digging around here to find a
few things that didn't
additional malntenance
get said. I agree that the
on this Colstrip plant is
ages. Puget Sound
depreciation
depreciation
golng to
Energy,
schedul-e to
schedule
be more and more as this plant
of course, has accelerated their
end on December of 2021 and
will normally signal the end
p1ant.
Westmoreland,
of the useful life of that
that
to run out of their coal- l-ease in
coal company, is going
2025 and they are
the
trying to get Montana to extend where they can mine for
coal, but under law, under their original l-ease
agreement, they have to reclaim what they've already dug
up before they can dig, you know, start a new mine area,
so I wanted to pick up on something that Matt mentj-oned.
He mentioned that Avista wanted to use natural 9as,
increase their natural gas as they pu11 away from coal.o 25
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CSB REPORTING(208) 890-s198
LETELLIER
Public
in the atmosphere than COZ.
oxide, which traps off 300
this use of natural 9dS, of
Natural gas is
It has methane that
where we're going
actually just about as bad
can trap 30 times more heat
It also gives off nitrous
times more. As
as coal.
to a point
oxide that
so Avista's
r-s gor_ng
fuel mix
to equal what
right now in
Idaho,
run it,
for the
course,
to have methane and
fncrease
to get up
nitrous
wetre
they
going
sure it's very similar in
from the same places and
was their fuel mix report
2071 ,
we've now got in CO2,
Washington, and Irm
they get their power
is !9.29 percent. This
calendar year 2015
ofpublished in May
percent and their
percent.
and their coal mix was 79.29
natural gas in their fuel mix was 38.44
Right now theyrre running 57.'7 3 percent
fossil fuels in their fuel- mix. The other one, they've
got 35 percent hydro. They've only got 3.2 percent wind
and no solar, so they always like to say that wind is so
much more expensive than, you know, this coal plant, and
I'm fooking at another little sheet I have here on my
desk from Northwestern Energy, which is the partner in
Montana that supplies electricity to Montana, North
Dakota, parts of South Dakota, and this is from the
Montana Publ-ic Service Commission and it has selected
Northwestern Electric Supply unit prices, so Northwesterno25
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CSB REPORTING
(208 ) 890-s1eB
LETELLIBR
Publ-ic
Energy, of course, gets quite a bit of their power from
Colstrip and that power from Colstrip is costing them
64.55 per megawatt-hour, $64.55 per megawatt-hour.
They al-so are getting power f rm not
sure if they own this or not, but they get power from a
big wind farm down by Judith Gap, Montana, and that wind
is costing them $32.71 per megawatt-hour, half of what
coal from Colstrip costs, so I have a hard time buying
the argument that wind is more. I don't think that
Avista ratepayers should be expected to pay for the
additional- maintenance and cleanup costs on Colstrip. I
think that that maintenance money could be much better
utilized in i-nvestment towards sustainable renewable
energy
is also
resources Iike wind and solar, so I think Avista
cover legaI costs that will be inevitable in
money to
the face of
all- this overwhel-ming evidence of human health,
ecological, and climate change damage
I feel that
going to need to start setting aside
companies that
a.ir can expect
continue
to pay hundreds
and even
pollution of the earth
of mil-l-ions of dollars
and
in l-awsuit settlements
criminal penalties, so I think Colstrip is just a deadend
non-sustainable resource, and I think it's golng to
become an albatross around Avi-sta's neck and I think that
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CSB REPORTING
(208 ) 890-5198
LETELL]ER
PubIic
that switch and exit Colstrip in the shortest possible
tlme frame. That's all I have to say. Thank you.
COMMISSIONER KJELLANDER: Thank you,
James. We appreciate your
I think we
comments this evening.
are ready for, is it, Nancy
Gerth?
MS. GERTH: Yes. Can you
COMM] SS IONER KJELLANDER :
hear me?
We can, Nancy,
it for us,and if you could tell us your name and spe11
please.
MS. GERTH: it's Nancy Gerth, spelled
N-a-n-c-y G-e-r-t-h.
COMMISSIONER KJELLANDER: And your
address, please.
MS GERTH: 1431 Harland Trail in Sagle
COMMISSIONER KJELLANDER: And are you an
Avista customer?
MS. GERTH: No, I'm not.
COMMISSIONER KJELLANDER: Okay, 1et me get
you sworn in officially for the record.
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CSB REPORTING(208) 890-5198
GERTH
Public
appearlng as
was examined
NANCY GERTH,
a public witness, having been duly sworn,
and testif ied as fol-l-ows:
COMMISSIONER KJELLANDER: Thank you, and
if you could provide your testimony, please.
THE WITNESS: I support the testimony of
those who have gone before me, but I would like to add
more general comment. I am not a customer of Avista. I
Iive off grid, but I bel-ieve that Avista and other
corporations affecting our environment
a
not ;ust to make prudent decisions for
make moral decisions. These decisions
have opportunities
customers, but to
affect us all, not
just customers, and should not be based only on
short-term need and profit, but on long-term vj-sion of
sustainability. If the decisions are made with the long
term in mind, profits will follow. Avista has the
experience and expertise to help us move to clean energy
technol-ogies and get more customers like me in the
process. Thank you.
COMMISSIONER KJELLANDER: Thank you,
Nancy, and we appreciate your
have exhausted the list that I
comments thls evening. We
had before
might have another caller or two who has
so why don't we just check very quickly.
us, but we
called in, and
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CSB REPORTTNG
(208 ) 890-s198
EISENBERG
PubIic
anyone else who woul-d like to testify, if you could go
ahead and speak now, we'lf see if we can't move forward
with you.
MR. EISENBERG: Hi, my name is Ethan
Eisenberg and I would like to make a comment.
COMMISSIONER KJELLANDER: Ethan, if you
could give us your name and spel1 it for us, please.
MR. EISENBERG: Sure, my name is Ethan
Eisenberg. It's E-t-h-a-n, Last name E-i-s-e-n-b-e-r-9.
COMMISSIONER KJELLANDER: Thank you, and
your address, please.
MR. EISENBERG: My address is 1,4LL East
Skyline Drive
customer.
in Coeur d'Alene, Idaho, and I am an Avista
COMMISSIONER KJELLANDER: Thank you, and
let me get you sworn in.
ETHAN EISENBERG,
appearing as a public witness, having been first duly
sworn, testified as follows:
COMMISSIONER KJELLANDER: Thank you.
Please provide your statement.
THE WITNESS: I wou1d like to start by
saying that I agree with aII the comments that have comeo25
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CSB REPORT]NG
(208 ) B9o-5198
EISENBERG
Public
before and in the interest of everybody's time, I don't
need to repeat much of what was said. I have three basic
thoughts here. The first is just to echo the large
environmental costs that are associated with continued
use of coal- and specifically the fact that the utility
and the government that regulates it and
responsible to the customers as a who1e,
dol-l-ars that we put towards Avista, so if WC
are also left
continued coal use for
the PUC is
not just to the
are paying
on the hookprices for Avista power and we
for the externalities from this
cleaning up the mine
to t.he air we breathe
and for the pollution and the
and their prlces are
damage
isand the water we drink, that
also something that should be consj-dered.
The second point I'd fike to make is that
on an economic argument if you exclude all of the
environmental factors, it doesn't make sense to lock
ourselves into a 20-year l-ease on this coal technology
that is getting more expensive whil-e wind and sol-ar are
already
I think
l-ifetime
going to
run,
run,
plant
cost competitive
if you just look at the economic costs
dropping.
of the
of this plant and what the
be much more expensive to
maybe not for the next year
to pay for the coal use and
and especially once PSE has
options are, itrs
ratepayers in the long
or two but in the long
of thethe shutting
pu1led out
down
and theo25
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CSB REPORT]NG
(208 ) B9o-s198
E]SENBERG
PubI i c
other owners and we are left holding the bag for the
cleanup costs.
It would be much more prudent for Avi-sta
ratepayers to
money in the
invest a little bit more currently and save
long
economic argument
prices of various
t'erm, and I think it's a pretty obvious
when you look at the trend and the
sources of power.
third point that I want to make is
in Avista's area in Idaho and eastern
feel that coal use should be
The
that listening to the call, there has not been one
comment in support of continued coal use and I donrt
think that's a coincidence. I think the consumers and
the people who live
Washington strongly
discontinued, that the power company that serves us
should move in a more sustainable direction, and I think
it's very clear that continuing to do this woul-d benefit
certain industries and certai-n corporati-ons much more
than it would benefit the end users, the consumers, of
the power, and I think that that should be taken into
account as this decision j-s made. Thank you.
COMMISSIONER KJELLANDER: Thank you,
Ethan. We apprecJ-ate your comments this evening. Is
there anyone else on the l1ne who wishes to testify this
evening?
It would appear, then, that we haveO25
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CSB REPORTING(208) 890-5198
o 25
traJJ COLLOQUY
exhausted the list of those individual-s who wish to
testify this evening, and f would just like to state that
we were able to have 18 people testify in just a little
over an hour and that is a very rare instance to have 18
people who can put together very concise, clear, and easy
to understand comments and testimonies for this
Commission, so we certainly do appreciate that.
What I would al-so like to offer you as we
prepare to c.onclude this evening's proceedings that if
there are any additional- comments that you would like to
submit to be part of the official report, please feel
free to go to our website and to submit those comments.
We'l-l- continue to accept those as we prepare to move
forward with the next phase of this particular caser so
with that, then, again, I appreciate your attendance. I
appreciate your participation. I certainl-y do appreciate
your ability to work with us this evening as we trj-ed to
avoid any technologlcal glitches to complete this, and
thank you very, very much for your participation and this
public hearing is now concluded.
(The telephonic public hearing adjourned
at 9: 15 p.m. )
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CSB REPORTING
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AUTHENTICATION
This is to certify that the foregoing
telephonic proceedings held in the matter of Avista
Corporation's 2AL1 Electric Integrated Resource P1an,
commencing at 8:00 p.m., oD Thursday, November 2, 2011,
at the Commission Hearing Room, 412 West Washington
Street, Boise, Idaho, is a true and correct transcript of
said proceedings and the original thereof for the file of
the Commission.
dTts 5,
CONSTANCE
Certified
S. BUCY
Shorthand Reporter tBl
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54 AUTHENT]CATION
f
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