20090622Vol I Moscow.pdf

ORIG\NAL
e BEFORE THE IDAHO PUBLIC UTILITIES COMMISSION
IN THE MATTER OF THE APPLICATION
OF AVISTA CORPORATION FOR THE
AUTHORITY TO INCREASE ITS RATES
AND CHARGES FOR ELECTRIC AND
NATURAL GAS SERVICE TO ELECTRIC
AND NATURAL GAS CUSTOMERS IN THE
STATE OF IDAHO.
CASE NOS.
AVU-E-09-01
AVU-G-09-01
PUBLIC HEARING
HEARING BEFORE
~ ~i=_ ~-0 C--l): c: ;Um:i :z mCDO N ('("l0'O '" m
:i. ::
êñc'i \0(J ..o C)z ..COMMISSIONER MACK A. REDFORD (Presiding)
COMMISSIONER MARSHA H. SMITH
COMMISSIONER JIM D. KEMPTON
--
PLACE:1912 Center
412 East Third StreetMoscow,Idaho
DATE:June 16,2009
VOLUME I -Pages 1 -16
i-i.s ?
1~1..l!Ê; 4t-¡t
HEDRICK
POST OFFICE BOX 578
BOISE, IDAHO 83701
208-336-9208.COURT REPORTING
s'el1f ti ¥ et/f(J/~ d'Í(19
e 1
2 For the Staff:
3
4
5 For Avista:
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
APPEARANCES
KRISTINE A. SASSER, Esq.
Deputy Attorney General
472 West Washington
Boise, Idaho 83702
DAVID J. MEYER, Esq.
Vice President and Chief Counsel
of Regulatory and GovernmentalAffairs
AVISTA CORPORATION
Post Office Box 3727
Spokane, Washington 99220
e
e
HEDRICK COURT REPORTING
P. O. BOX 578, BOISE, ID 83701
APPEARANCES
1 I N D E Xe2
WITNESS EXAMINATION BY PAGE
3 Dennis Plunkett Ms.Sasser 7
4 (Public)Statement 8
5 Thomas Campbell Statement 12
(Public)
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
e 13
14 EXHIBITS
15
(No exhibits were marked.)
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
e 25
HEDRICK COURT REPORTING
P. O. BOX 578, BOISE, ID 83701
INDEX
EXHIBITS
e
e
e
1 MOSCOW, IDAHO, TUESDAY, JUNE 16, 2009, 7:00 P.M.
2
3
4 COMMISSIONER REDFORD: Why don't we just get
5 started with the hearing and I'll say a few things about the
6 way these public hearings take place. If you're all in
7 position where you can see us, that's great. If you can't,
8 move over.
9 It's always a pleasure to be in Moscow, Idaho,
10 home of the Vandals. And living in Boise I get a little bit
11 tired of the Broncos, but at any rate, this is kind of like
12 Baghdad for me and I just had to get that in.
13 This is Idaho Public Utilities Commission, and
14 seated to my left is Commissioner Marsha Smith and seated to my
15 right is Jim Kempton. And my name is Mack Redford. We're
16 Commissioners, and Jim Kempton is the President of the
17 Commission.
18 The hearing we're having tonight is in the matter
19 of the Application of Avista Corporation for the authority to
20 increase its rates and charges for electric and natural gas
21 service to electric and natural gas customers in the state of
22 Idaho.
23 The way this works is that, unfortunately, it's
24 not a give and take between the people who are choosing to
25 testify. And we won't make any comment generally on anything
1
HEDRICK COURT REPORTING
P. O. BOX 578, BOISE, ID 83701
COLLOQUY
e
e
e
1 that's going on because in many respects we are not privy to
2 this case because we don't get it until we have a formal
3 hearing, and there is a formal hearing set up for later on.
4 So, when you come to testify, if you'd please
5 stand before the -- at the podium and there's a microphone.
6 We'd like you to make sure that you speak into the microphone
7 so that we can hear you.
8 We have a court reporter who, by law, is required
9 to take down all the testimony and all the statements.
10 When you do come to testify, we would ask you
11 and our Kris Sasser, who is a Deputy Attorney General, will
12 swear you in. And after that, you could give your testimony.
13 When you testify, we would appreciate you're not referring to
14 someone in the room or looking for support or whatever. If
15 you'll just give us your statement as to how you feel about the
16 proposed -- the Application for a proposed rate increase.
17 And before we get going, I'd like to introduce
18 I'll have the -- excuse me -- the parties give their
19 appearances, if you would, please.
20 MR. MEYER: Thank you, Commissioner. I'm
21 David Meyer and I'm here representing Avista. And we have any
22 number of people in the room who, during a break or at the end
23 of the hearing, could answer questions you might have, if you
24 have specific service problems or just questions in general.
25 So we'll be around after these proceedings. Thank you.
2
HEDRICK COURT REPORTING
P. O. BOX 578, BOISE, ID 83701
COLLOQUY
e
e
e
1 COMMISSIONER REDFORD: Kris.
2 MS. SASSER: My name's Kristine Sasser, and I'm
3 the attorney for Staff on this case.
4 COMMISSIONER REDFORD: Thank you. I'd also like
5 to tell you that there has been a tentative Settlement of this
6 rate case. I know that that may come as a shock to some of
7 you. We are always hoping that the parties can all get
8 together and settle issues. Seldom does it happen, but in this
9 case-- and when I say, "Tentative," I mean that the
10 Stipulation for a Settlement has been signed by the parties and
11 we haven't -- we've just barely gotten it this afternoon, so
12 we're not conversant with this. But I just wanted you to
13 understand that no proposed Settlement is good until the
14 Commission and all the Commissioners sign off on it.
15 If I have -- haven't -- if I've missed anything,
16 I'm sure that my fellow Commissioners will let me know. If I
17 haven't, why, we'll go ahead and start with the -- a little bit
18 of a review by Kristine Sasser about the proposed Settlement.
19 We thought it was very important that at our hearing tonight
20 and also our hearing tomorrow night at Coeur d' Alene that you,
21 the public, understand, one, who the parties were, and anything
22 else that they can give you at the time.
23 So, Kris, I'll turn it over to you.
24 MS. SASSER: Thank you, Commissioner Redford. I
25 will be brief.
3
HEDRICK COURT REPORTING
P. O. BOX 578, BOISE, ID 83701
COLLOQUY
e
e
-
1 A settlement conference was held with all parties
2 except for the Idaho Conservation League in attendance on
3 June 5th, and as of today, a Stipulation and proposed
4 Settlement was filed with the Commission, signed by all
5 parties, including the Idaho Conservation League. The two
6 local citizens' advisory groups were also included in that and
7 it was signed by them, both CAPAI and ICAN.
8 If approved, overall electric rates for
9 residential customers could increase by less than two percent
10 wi th no change in natural gas rates. The documents will be
11 available on-line and can be reviewed at that time.
12 MR. PLUNKETT: Excuse me. I'm hearing-impaired.
13 The acoustics in here, I can't hear. Are those microphones on?
14 COMMISSIONER REDFORD: Well, I think they are.
15 How about this?
16 MR. PLUNKETT: That's better. Thank you.
17 COMMISSIONER REDFORD: Okay. Well, I'll ask
18 everybody else to speak right into the microphone.
19 MS. SASSER: Do you want me to repeat everything
20 that I just said?
21 MR. PLUNKETT: You don't have to if they heard
22 it.
23 MR. REDFORD: Well, why don't you go ahead.
24 A VOICE: Two percent for how long?
25 MS. SASSER: Until the next rate case is filed in
4
HEDRICK COURT REPORTING
P. O. BOX 578, BOISE, ID 83701
COLLOQUY
e
e
e
1 order to -- with the caveat of things like the PCA and other
2 filings by the Company; but as a general rate case matter,
3 within this rate case, they increase by less than two percent.
4 A VOICE: A year.
5 COMMISSIONER REDFORD: I might add that the rates
6 are effective until they're changed, and that's kind of the --
7 not really a good answer, but it's up to the Utility to bring a
8 rate case, an Application for a rate increase, and I think
9 there was also previously an Application before us to decrease
10 the gas rates. So I know that's kind of a flippant answer, but
11 that's about the way it is.
12 We don't callout for changes in rates. The
13 Utili ties must file an Application, and they must file with it
14 all their testimony and evidence. Once that happens, our
15 Public Utili ties Staff of whom we have accountants, auditors,
16 engineers, and about 50 people that go through the Application,
17 then they -- the Staff and also other parties who might
18 intervene, like ICAP (sic) -- ICAN, which is the Idaho Action
19 Network -- Community Action Network -- and CAPAI, which is
20 Ci tizens Advisory -- what is it?
21 COMMISSIONER SMITH: Communi ty Action.
22 COMMISSIONER REDFORD: It's Community Action
23 Program. And they file their testimony, which usually includes
24 testimony from expert witnesses who are expert in the field of
25 regulation and rates. And then once all those things are
5
HEDRICK COURT REPORTING
P. O. BOX 578, BOISE, ID 83701
COLLOQUY
e
e
e
1 filed, then the matters are sent down for public hearing. And
2 after the public hearings are over, then we have a formal
3 hearing on the Application itself. And after that, the
4 Commission takes the matter under consideration and issues its
5 Decision.
6 In this case and since there is a tentative
7 Settlement, what will happen is that there will be a hearing
8 which will be put on by us, by the Commission, at which time
9 the parties -- all the parties -- will have an opportunity to
10 justify the Stipulation.
11 So, I just wanted to make sure you understand
12 that it's not -- it's not a done deal until the Commission,
13 who, after all, is responsible for the Decision, has an
14 opportuni ty to look at it and to approve it.
15 And so that's where we are today. It's kind of
16 anticlimactic at this time to come up here and tell you that we
17 potentially settled it, but nevertheless, we've still got a
18 ways to go.
19 If there is nothing else from Counsel, we'll go
20 ahead and call the first witness, who is Dennis Plunkett.
21 COMMISSIONER SMITH: Mr. Plunkett, do you want to
22 raise
23 MR. PLUNKETT: Is this on?
24 COMMISSIONER SMITH: Yeah. You need to raise
25 your right hand.
6
HEDRICK COURT REPORTING
P. O. BOX 578, BOISE, ID 83701
COLLOQUY
e
e
1 MR. PLUNKETT: Right hand?
2
3 DENNIS PLUNKETT,
4 appearing as a public witness, being first duly sworn, was
5 examined and testified as follows:
6
7 COMMISSIONER REDFORD: I'll consider you sworn.
8 THE WITNESS: In my opinion, the acoustics in
9 here are terrible.
10 COMMISSIONER REDFORD: Well, they aren't too
11 good. Looks like this may have been a gym.
12 THE WITNESS: In this age of modern electronics,
13 there should be a public address system that the people can
14 understand.
15 COMMISSIONER REDFORD: Yeah. Well, go ahead and
16 give your --
17
18 EXAMINATION
19
20 BY MS. SASSER:
21 Q.I need a couple of formalities for the record.
22 If you can state your name and spell your last name for the
23 record, please?
24
e 25
A.Yes. My name is Dennis Plunkett. My last name
is spelled P-L-U-N-K-E-T-T.
7
HEDRICK COURT REPORTING
P. O. BOX 578, BOISE, ID 83701
PLUNKETTPublic
e
e
e
1 Q.And
2 A. And I'm a private citizen from Lewiston, Idaho.
3 Q. And your residence address, sir?
4 A. Beg your pardon?
5 Q. Your residence address.
6 A. My resident address is 3125 Fifth Street,
7 Lewiston, Idaho.
8 Q. And you're a customer of Avista?
9 A. And I'm a customer of Avista.
10 Q. Go ahead and proceed with your testimony.
11 A. Actually, I have several Avista accounts because
12 I i m also a landlord and I rent several residential properties.
13 So my concern isn't just for myself; it's also for my tenants.
14 In the Lewiston-Clarkston valley, it has been
15 tradi tionally a soft economy. The people who rent typically
16 cannot afford to buy because they're low wage earners. And a
17 lot of times I have to come to the aid of my tenants because
18 they get their power turned off because they simply can't
19 afford it.
20 Now, I was at the Lewiston meeting and the room
21 was about half full, and as the meeting progressed, it came to
22 my attention that only four people were citizens and everybody
23 else was Avista, and I think that points out the general apathy
24 in our society that people feel they can i t do anything at all
25 about rate increases so they don't get up -- so they don't
8
HEDRICK COURT REPORTING
P. o. BOX 578, BOISE, ID 83701
PLUNKETT
Public
e
e
e
1 bother to attend these meetings. I think they feel it's just
2 kind of a slam-dunk. Avista asks and the Commission giveth.
3 And I know there are forces that are beyond your
4 control, but if we become organized politically, we can make
5 some changes so that Avista isn't hi t with an incredible
6 avalanche of government and environmental fees that are
7 basically prohibi ti ve and they have no choice but to pass it on
8 to the consumer.
9 And the one thing that I i m concerned about is the
10 upcoming cap and trade thing. Now, are any of your rates now
11 driven by any kind of a carbon tax? None at this time. But if
12 that legislation passes, then all of that will be passed on
13 along to Avista customers in the form of rate increases. So on
14 top of the rate increases you're asking for now, within a year
15 or two if this carbon cap and trade thing goes into law, is
16 passed into law, you're going to be as king for a lot more
17 increases. And right now at least the people that I deal with
18 can't afford the current rates, much less the increases that
19 you're asking for.
20 So my question, I guess, is is there any way that
21 you can enlist our help so that we can go to government either
22 at the state level or the federal level to see if somehow
23 we can get rolled back these regulations and fees and permits
24 that you have to pay, which, in turn, you have to pay on --
25 pass along to your customers?
9
HEDRICK COURT REPORTING
P. O. BOX 578, BOISE, ID 83701
PLUNKETT
Public
e
e
e
1 I'm a businessman. I know you can't absorb all
2 of it, you have to pass a little bit of it along. But at some
3 point you i re going to kill the goose that lays the golden egg
4 and you i re going to break the camel's back, and we've already
5 seen that happen in California. Any tax base can only absorb
6 so much. Any economy can only pay so much. And any increase
7 in utili ties or fuel prices or whatever can only be absorbed to
8 a certain point.
9 So that's basically what I have to say this
10 evening. Thank you very much.
11 COMMISSIONER REDFORD: Thank you, Mr. Plunkett.
12 I would add that it certainly would help for the ratepayers to
13 be in contact with and write to their congressmen and senators
14 about those very bills that you're talking about.
15 And, you know, ICAN and the other -- CAPAI, the
16 two community action agencies, you might want to contact them,
17 because they have their ear to the post of what's going on, and
18 they attend and participate in all of our proceedings and they
19 do a very good job.
20 And, thank you, Mr. Plunkett. I appreciate it.
21 THE WITNESS: Thank you.
22 (The witness left the stand.)
23 COMMISSIONER REDFORD: We don't have anybody else
24 listed to testify, but I will invite anyone who would like to
25 testify to come up and testify now.
10
HEDRICK COURT REPORTING
P. O. BOX 578, BOISE, ID 83701
COLLOQUY
e
e
e
1 As Mr. Plunkett said, it's unfortunate we don't
2 have more community participation, but I will have to say we've
3 gotten literally tens, if not hundreds, of e-mails and letters
4 from people who feel more comfortable providing their thoughts
5 by way of letter or e-mail, and they poured it out to us. And
6 so we're well aware that the customers of Avista and other
7 utili ty companies are very aware of the economic impact that
8 this has on all of you, notwithstanding the fact that in the
9 scheme of things -- and it's of little comfort -- but Idaho is
10 probably -- has the lowest rates for electricity, if not the
11 lowest, in the country. And, again, that's of little comfort
12 to someone who is -- can't afford to pay that. It's like
13 gi ving a drowning man a glass of water.
14 So we i re aware of the feeling and we act on
15 behalf of the citizens of Idaho, and also we're required by law
16 to provide to the Utilities a fair and reasonable return on
17 their money.
18 So if there aren't any other people that would
19 like to testify --
20 MR. CAMPBELL: I i m sorry, I didn't sign up. I
21 could.
22 COMMISSIONER REDFORD: Well, good. Sign here.
23 MR. CAMPBELL: My name is Tom Campbell --
24 Thomas Campbell -- 803 East Seventh Street, Moscow, Idaho. I
25 am an Avista customer, and, yes, I do swear to tell the truth,
11
HEDRICK COURT REPORTING
P. O. BOX 578, BOISE, ID 83701
COLLOQUY
e
-
1 the whole truth, and nothing but the truth as I see it. Okay?
2
3 THOMAS CAMPBELL,
4 appearing as a public witness, being first duly sworn, was
5 examined and testified as follows:
6
7 THE WITNESS: Just some questions, some
8 observations, and some, you know this guy that I talked to
9 at the Public Utili ties Commission, got him good, I liked him,
10 and I came on to him real short, and he Chris Heck? Okay,
11 he's good. He got back to me real quick. He sent me a fax and
12 stuff like that, and he sent me this thing, Average Residential
13 Natural Gas Rates for Utili ties. Okay? And he sent me another
14 one that -- for the -- I guess that's gas. The other one was
15 electric. Okay?
16 By the rates here, every year -- we'll just
17 average, okay about five percent a year over the last 10
18 years. That's a 50-percent increase in 10 years. I have not
19 gotten a raise of 50 percent over the last 10 years, and I
20 don't believe anybody except maybe somebody from Avista, okay,
21 has gotten a rate like that. Okay?
22
23
I cannot see how they can justify, and this is a
public utility. You have a monopoly. Right? There's no I
24 can't go to Happy Harry i s House of Electricity and sign up as
e 25 your competition. There's a public trust here that I really do
12
HEDRICK COURT REPORTING
P. O. BOX 578, BOISE, ID 83701
CAMPBELL
Public
e
-
e
1 feel is being violated.
2 There i S a time right now that we are in serious,
3 serious problems, and Avista is not helping. For years we gave
4 you -- we gave, "we" -- I take it you guys work for us. Right?
5 COMMISSIONER REDFORD: Yes, we do.
6 THE WITNESS: We gave you your rate increases.
7 Now, the people need some help. Okay? Everybody from Avista
8 seems like, well, we've got to cover our own little patooties
9 here and we don't want to take it in the shorts. Okay? We
10 need our five percent, 14 percent, whatever you guys are asking
11 for, whatever you get, because what they ask is not what they
12 get. Right? What I have here in my hand is this four, six,
13 eight percent -- or, six I think is the highest. But you're
14 asking for eight, 10, and 12 and then settling for, you know,
15 the four. Okay? Which is okay. I can understand a company
16 making business -- or, making profit -- except when it's a
17 monopoly, a public trust.
18 Right now, I think what the people are talking
19 about -- and I talk to a lot of people. I talk a lot myself,
20 but I listen more than I talk, and what I'm hearing is that
21 people are hurt, and they're hurting. And I don't think that
22 inflation is spelled Avista, but I believe Avista is a middle
23 name. And right now I think that you people, as being public
24 trust, should really stand up and say, hey, look, forget about
25 the four percent. In the long range, we need to protect our
13
HEDRICK COURT REPORTING
P. O. BOX 578, BOISE, ID 83701
CAMPBELL
Public
e
e
e
1 customers for a long-range protection of the people who are
2 going to be buying our electricity.
3 I don't know, gentlemen. This was not advertised
4 but I did hear about your electric car. Okay? You could have
5 put a little thing on the electric car: Hey, we're going to
6 have a public meeting, you know, on such and such a date.
7 I did read the newspaper. I didn i t see it in the
8 newspaper either. It was in the newspaper? I didn't see it
9 and I read it. You know, obviously, it wasn't a very big one.
10 But, myself, I'm disappointed. I know right now
11 in the last 10 years I have not gotten 50 percent more. I
12 don't know how you guys justify it.
13 There i S one more thing: If you need the rate
14 increase, you come to the people and you get it. Why does the
15 guy who i s running the whole thing get a $2.2 million salary for
16 a company that if it needs to make more money just goes and
17 asks the Public Utilities Commission for more money? It's not
18 like you're in a competi ti ve, capitalistic market. You have a
19 monopoly.
20 That's it. Hey, thanks a lot, folks. You should
21 advertise better though. All right?
22 COMMISSIONER REDFORD: Thank you very much.
23 Could you give me your name again so we can --
24 THE WITNESS: Uh-oh.
25 COMMISSIONER REDFORD: Uh-oh. Big Brother.
14
HEDRICK COURT REPORTING
P. O. BOX 578, BOISE, ID 83701
CAMPBELLPublic
e
e
1 THE WITNESS:Thomas.Thomas Campbell.
COMMISSIONER REDFORD:Thomas who?
THE WITNESS:Campbell.
COMMISSIONER REDFORD:Thomas Campbell.
THE WITNESS:Pens are going down.
COMMISSIONER REDFORD:Okay.Thanks a lot,
Mr.Campbell.
2
3
4
5
6
7
8 (The witness left the stand.)
9 COMMISSIONER REDFORD: Is there anyone else that
10 would like to testify, and if you do, just step forward and let
11 'er go. If not, then, you know, going once, twice. I guess
12 we'll call this meeting closed.
13 And I want to tell you again that there's a
14 tentati ve Settlement, and if the Settlement is approved by the
15 Commission, then your -- certainly your rates will go up but
16 not as much as you think.
17 So, we really appreciate all of your -- everybody
18 that attended, and I think I share my -- with the other
19 Commissioners that we do notify and put notices in the paper
20 about these hearings, and we wish that there were more people
21 that stepped forward.
22 So if there's nothing else to come before the
23 Commission at this time, we i II stand adjourned. Thank you.
24
e 25
(The hearing adjourned at 7:24 p.m.)
15
HEDRICK COURT REPORTING
P. O. BOX 578, BOISE, ID 83701
COLLOQUY
e 1 AUTHENTICATION
2
3
4 This is to certify that the foregoing is a
5 true and correct transcript to the best of my ability of the
6 proceedings held in the matter of the Application of Avista
7 Corporation for the authority to increase its rates and charges
8 for electric and natural gas service to electric and natural
9 gas customers in the state of Idaho, Case Nos. AVU-E-09-01 and
10 AVU-G-09-01, commencing on Tuesday, June 16, 2009, at the 1912
11 Center, 412 East Third Street, Moscow, Idaho, and the original
e
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
e 25
12 thereof for the file of the Commission.
13
14
15
16
WENDY J. URRAY, N
in and for the Sta
residing at Meridian,
My Commission expires
Idaho CSR No. 475
ublic
of Idaho,
Idaho.
2-5-2014.
,',......",~", Y J "'"
~.,:~~ "l~~ ..,,- Iilt1;......,: "C ~1: ~.~ T ~
f. ~~:~¥j~ ~\os ~.. . p
\~... e.. (¡a ue Jt-..~ C'-~:; OF i¡)lt~'*....,~..,..
16
HEDRICK COURT REPORTING
P. O. BOX 578, BOISE, ID 83701
AUTHENTICATION