20190305Show Cause Hearing Transcript Vol I.pdf

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COPY
For:
PUC
CSB REPORTING
CertiJied Shorthand Reporters
Post Office Box9774
Boise,Idaho 83707
[e-mail]
Ph: 208-890-5198 Fax: [phone]
Reporter:
Constance Bucy,
CSR
BEFORE THE IDAHO PUBLIC UTILITIES COMMISSION
IN THE MATTER OF THE INVEST]GATION
OF ATLANTA POWER COMPANY
SERVICE AND CUSTOMER RELATIONS
CASE NO. ATL-E_18-01-
BEFORE
(.COMMISSIONER ERIC ANDERSON (Presiding) i
COMMISSIONER PAUL KJELLANDER
COMMISSIONER KRISTINE RAPER
PLACE:Commission Hearing Room
472 West Washington Street
Boj-se, Idaho
DATE:February 1-9, 2019
VOLUMEI-Pagesl-16
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208.890.5198
APPEARANCES
For the Staff:Karl T. KLein, Esg.
Deputy Attorney General
412 West Washington StreetBoise, Idaho 83120
For At]anta
Landowner' s
Water and
Associ-ation:
Steven iI. Meade, Esg.
Post Office Box 1097Boise, Idaho 83701
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APPEARANCES
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COMMISSIONER ANDERSON : Wel-l-, good
morning, ladies and gentlemen. Today is February 15th,
2079, and this is the time and place set forth for the
Idaho Publ-ic Util-ities Commission hearing on order to
show cause issued in Case No. ATL-E-18-01, entitl-ed in
the matter of the investigation of Atlanta Power Company
service and customer rel-ati-ons. I'm Commi-ssioner Eric
Anderson.On my right
Commissioner
is Commissioner Kjellander and on
my left is
Commission,
Raper. Together we make up the
the Idaho Publ-ic Util-ities Commission.
Our
and if there's any
clear or we'11 hear
we'fl go ahead and
Commission Staff.
court reporter
testimony, be
about it. At
today is Connj-e Bucy
sure
this
we speak s1ow1y and
point I think that
the parties.take appearances of
MR. KLEIN: Karl Klej-n, Deputy Attorney
General, for the Commissj-on Staff .
COMMISSIONER ANDERSON: Respondent? No
reply from Respondent, not
MR. MEADE:Yes, Steven James Meade on
behal-f of the Atlanta Landowners Association and on
behalf of the Atl-anta Water Associ-ation.
here. Intervenors?
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BOISE, IDAHO, TUESDAY, FEBRUARY 19, 2019, 10:00 A. M.
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COMMISSIONER ANDERSON: Welcome, thank
you. We1l, again, we don't have the Respondent here, but
I rm stil1 going to explain what this hearing, what it
entaj-ls and what the question is before us. Today's
hearing has a limited scope, which is to allow At1anta
Power to testify in response to three items the
Commission has ordered Atlanta Power to address.
Specifically based on evi-dence, the Commission has
ordered Atlanta Power to explain why the Commission
should not require the Company to immediately, No. 7,
file verified returns Atlanta Power was supposed to file
with the Commission in 2017 and 2018 to show Atlanta
Power's gross operating revenues for calendar years 20L6
and 2017.
No. 2, pay $103 in past due regulatory
fees and interest consisting of the statutory minimum of
$50.00 per year for calendar years 201,6 and 2017 with
$3.00 in interest; and item No. 3, pay $12,000 in civil-
penalties for having viol-ated the Idaho Public Util-ities
Law. This amount consists of a $2,000 penalty for each
of the six violations of the Public Utll-ities Law as
allowed by Idaho Code 67-106.
Well, since we have -- we don't have the
Respondents herer we don't have the ability for them to
answer presently. We do have would Staff l-ike to make
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208.890.5198
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any comments at this point, anything additional for the
record?
MR. KLEIN: Staff doesnrt have any
additional testimony to offer. Just as a point of
clarification, maybe my hearing is wrong, I think when
you started you said it's February 15th today, it's
February 19th.
COMMISSIONER ANDERSON: Excuse me, I have
the 19th written, because that wasnrt Valentine's Day
thatfmissed, Ihope.
MR. KLEIN: Staff has nothlng el-se.
COMMISSIONER ANDERSON: Thank you, and Mr.
Meade, you've come
allow you to make
this case.
to the hearlng
a statement if
today. I'm going to
you'd l-ike pertaining to
MR. MEADE: I have no statement here.
Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
COMMISSIONER ANDERSON: Wel1, with that,
unfortunately, wetre
up that issue that we
-- Mr. Meade, did you want to bring
Staff.
you. Wel-l-, with that and no Respondents
adjourned. Oh, excuse me, I should have
MR. MEADE: I wil-I bring it up with
COMMISSIONER ANDERSON: That's fine, thank
here, w€ are
asked theo25
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208.890.5198
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Commission.
COMMISSIONER KJELLANDER: Before we close
down, because j-t's a publlc meeting and this is the best
and probably only time that the three of us have that
opportunity to raise a few questions to Iegal counsef in
a manner that's not ex parte,
counsel and to
I guess what I would reaIly
record is whatIike from legaI
are the potential- next
with the scenario that
rel-ates to dealing
with Atlanta? The
I'm just
r_ssue a
so my
and, if
if in
curious, w€
certificate
assumption
SO,
fact
steps as
we have
conven]-ence
put
ir
here
on the
question is who's actually still- engaged with this
Company from a managerial- perspective? Obviously,
there's no one here to answer those questions.
Al-so, in terms of the next steps,
the ability to
and necessity,
as a Commission have
of public
is we have the ability to revoke that,
what does that mean and what are the options
we do take
in large part,
exi-sted as far
up l-ines that
that course, because what brought us here
too, were some of the scenarios that
as customers actually having to put back
were down
Clear1y, that's outside of the scope of
what we woufd consider to be in the realm of public
health and safety and we had those who weren't actually
qualified to do that putting these things back up ando25
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putting their lives at risk. I as a Commissioner just
donrt feel- comfortable in any wdy, shape r ox form
allowing that to happen again, and we're to the poi-nt
where clearly, we have to do something.
I don't like the idea of having to take
folks to District Court, because once that happens, the
opportunity for settl-ement, at least from my perspective,
goes away, and I'd like to know what al-l of our options
are in dealing with a Company that cIearIy, for whatever
reason, can't show up to a show cause hearing, can't send
a representative in some form to address any of the
questions we have, and in large part, it l-ooks l-ike it's
a Company without any management and that, regardless of
the sj-ze of the Company, can't continue and I guess I
would l-ike more clarification on what our 1ega1 abi-l-j-ties
are, so I just wanted to get that on the record and
thatrs essentially the questions that I have going
forward.
Another question, too, is to the extent, I
guess the longer I rambl-e, the more questions pop up, to
the extent that Atlanta is an incorporated city and I
don't know the answer to this, I'd like to know what
options there may be, too, in the sense of, I bel-ieve
that there is some statutory allowance for a municipal-ity
to actually condemn resources within its jurisdictj,on and
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208.890.5198
to the extent that that's possible, I'd like to know what
those options might be
relates to at l-east our
as wel-l in terms of contro] as it
whether or not there are
authority going forward and
other options on the table that
we're not seeing today.
I know that we have had some desire for
somebody to either look at a co-op or actually acquiring
it as a homeowner's association and my hope is that maybe
there's some additional comments that may arise there,
but we can't force the sale of somethi-ng, so, again, I
just want to look at what all the options are. Thank
you.
COMMISSIONER RAPER: I just want to
address Mr. Meade realIy quickly. It looks like from
your petition to intervene, which was fil-ed nearly a year
ago now, in April of 201,8, you represent the Atlanta
Water Association and the Atl-anta Landowner's
Association, which to Commissioner Kjellander's point
Ieads one to wonder if perhaps the community were looking
at somehow attempting to gain an HOA angle to this, and
yet, there's been no additional filing for the benefit of
the record for us to consider as to your particular
interest, So I just want to encourage you, the record
remaj-ns open even folfowing the cl-ose of this hearing
until this Commission decides how to proceed, so I would
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208 .8 90 . 5198
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encourage you to file on behalf of your cl-ients what your
interest is.
We havenrt ever issued a formal- procedure
in this case, p€r ser like a normal case would proceed,
because it's always been a little lucky trying to get
ahol-d of people from Atl-anta Power, but that certainly
doesn't prohibit you from filing any kind of petitj-on or
informational- brief in order to benefit this Commi-ssion
to know what our best route forward is, because we are
clearly at a loss at
sol-ution that solves
Atlanta Power and I
a power company into
court, whj-le that is
some alternati-ves to
then those
this point. We
the problem for
don't think the
are J-ooking for a
the customers of
state wants to bring
to civil
front of us
are things
and made
receivership, so taking
an a1ternative for us,
consider that don't go
we woul-d l-ike to have
ir
if we have
that route,
brought in
we have the
j ust
take with
have been
beginning,
the
benefit to consider
a part of the
those things,
record so
so I woul-d
encourage if there's a
regard to this, which
something that drove
then I would encourage
benefit of the record
position your clients
clearIy, there had to
you to intervene from the
you to make a
so that we have
filing for
an opportunity to
consider those positions.
MR. MEADE:You mean address thea25
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208.890. s198
B
Commission rather than filing
COMMISSIONER KJELLANDER: Excuse me, I
think it's fine to address the Commission in
I'd also like to see a filing and then that
part of the public record.
MR. MEADE: Sure.
COMMISSIONER KJELLANDER: And even though
this would be as well, it would
through, give you more
a document to us, and to
part, but
wdy, it's
you more time to
to put it together
extent that therers
That would be my
I apologize for
think it
give
time
the
the
and
any
have
get
response from the owners of Company that they
that option as well.
MR. MEADE: Al-1 right .
COMMISSIONER KJELLANDER :
hope, but certal-nJ-y, please respond and
the J-nterruption.
MR. MEADE: No problem,
Kj eIlander.
COMMISSIONER ANDERSON: Mr. Meade, go
ahead.
MR. MEADE: Okay,
I would l-ike to
Commissioner
thank you, Mr. Chair.
correct a littl-e bit ofFor the record,
misinf ormati-on
Atlanta Power
that Commissioner Kjellander
is not an incorporated town.
shared.
Wetre
COMMISSIONER KJELLANDER: And ;ust so Io25
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208.890.5198
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can be cfear, my question was, was it.
MR. MEADE: Oh, I'm sorry.
COMMISSIONER KJELLANDER: I didn't say
that it was.
MR. MEADE: Okay, I misunderstood you,
then. It is not an incorporated town and so we are not a
municipality. We do not have any formal city government
or anything like that. With regard to your question,
back in March of l-ast year when it became known to us
that this was actually before the Publ-ic Util-ities
Commission, we sought to put together a group of
individuals and we formed a cooperative and so it's the
Atlanta Power Consumer Cooperative.
We filed documents with
State. We've adopted bylaws. We have
the Secretary of
service
a mi-nuters notice.agreements.
In addition,
We're ready to step in
I've had conversations
1n
Eederal Energy Regulatory
conversations with Brant
Forest, ds well I've had
with regard to the taxes
the property.
The fact of the
Kjellander, you kind of hit the
here, w€ have no response from
with FERC, the
Commission. I've also had
Peterson with the Boise National-
conversati-ons with El-more County
that are actually owed against
matter is, Commissioner
nail right on the head
the Respondents and that'so25
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CSB REPORTING
208.890.5198
probl-ematic for us as
Israel Rayr s brother,
well-. f 've talked with Gene R"y,
discussed this with him numerous
times. We've talked
The price that they
unattainable. They
$1.8 mil-lion for the
worth near that much.
about the purchase of Atlanta Power.
want at this point in time is
want they've indicated they want
plant. I don't think that itrs
We cannot force them to sell, but
we stand ready to step lnto
f j-nancing, the whole works.
at
their shoes with a co-op and
ActualJ-y, we're looking
Mr. Meade, I
I'm goj-ng to have
here, I gave
the show cause
COMMISSIONER ANDERSON :
appreciate your comments. I think that
to rufe that from the Chair's positlon
addressrelatlvely narrow confines to
hearing, the Respondents are not here, and I feel we're
of detail- that I woul-d muchweighing into
prefer to see
not havlng the
some areas
in writing. I feel- a little bit awkward in
Respondents abl-e to cross or to redirect
and forgive me, Commissioner Kjellander, but I think that
we need to stay to the scope of what I identified as the
narrow scope of our proceedings today. I do encourage
your as Commissi-oner Kjellander said, put these things in
writing and in detail of your hopes and desires and your
past history of action. I haven't seen any filings from
you personally on that regard, have I?o 25
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208.890. s198
MR. MEADE: You have not, sir, but Irve
had conversations with
conversations appear in
actua11y, to the j-ssue
your Staff and
their
none of my
reports andany of
that we had previously addressed,
this. According to yourthat's my chief complaint with
order to show cause on page 2, it says here Staff was to
work with the Company -- Irm going to start here. "On
February 20, 2018, the Commission approved Staffrs
recommendation. The Commission ordered its Staff to
investigate the j-nformal- complaints of Company customers
and the Company's service reliability, maintenance and
operations, and customer rel-atj-ons. Staff was to work
with the Company and its customers to lnvestigate these
issues and identify possible solutions and provide a
report detailing Staffrs findings within six months. "
That never occurred. They've never
contacted us. They've never asked for a meeting. Even
though we have offered to arrange a meeting, they have
never done it; sor therefore, you have no recommendations
before you from your Staff and thatrs part of this
problem.
COMMISSIONER ANDERSON: We11,thank you.
the heartMr. Meade. I believe that that actually hits
of the show cause and your concern and maybe there's some
way we can get directlon now on the record moving forwardo25
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208 .890.5198
and encourage Staff to have
you to be provided with the
COMMTSSIONER
a better engagement and for
opportuni-ty.
RAPER:
Meade, of communj-cation, we do have
record that was filed on, it l-ooks
2078. Whether that encompasses the
that you wished that it did you can
To your point, Mr.
a Staff report on
l-ike, December 28th of
amount of material-
take issue with. We
do have a Staff report on record, though, that has been
filed with the Commission, so I appreciate that you don't
regularly appear in front of this Commission and may not
understand procedurally how things works, but to this
point, Mr. Klej-n represents the Commission Staff, not
lega1 representation for these Commissioners and what we
do as a Commission, and so, again, you have the right to
fil-e what you wish within the record.
If therers additional- materia1 that you
believe needs to become part of the record, which I think
that you have stated here today, we look forward to the
benefit of that information, but to the point of whether
anything has been filed, there was a Staff report filed.
I appreciate from your perspective that that may not have
all- the material in it that you wish that it did, but I
think that therers a miscommunication here, too, based on
your
maybe
not having appeared i-n front of this body before and
not specifically understanding kind of how thoseo25
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CSB REPORTING
208.890. s198
communications work.
I would encourage Mr. Kl-ein to have
communications with to the extent that
occurs in any case this, but I think
benefit of your information in the record
a filing, again, to Commissloner Kjellander's point so
that any party has an opportunity to see that record and
to respond to that, then let's get a fuII record to make
a decisi-on on. We're not the same as a civil court or
criminal- court where the rules of procedure will
informati-on in the record,otherwise bar you
so we want to make
you
1i ke
from getting
a deci-sion based on all- of the
that normally
that the
in the form of
informatlon j-n front of us,
we don't have, so, again, I
which it feel-s l-ike right now
wou1d encourage you to make a
to provide the additional-filing with the
informati-on that
Commissloner
Commission
you possess.
MR. MEADE: Al-1 right. May I respond?
COMMISSIONER ANDERSON: You may.
MR. MEADE: Okay, Mr. Chairman,
COMMISSIONER RAPER:Raper.
the fact of theMR. MEADE: -- Raper,
matter is I had many communications with Brandon Karpen,
your prior attorney and, again, I've seen the Staff
report that was generated and I find it odd that thereo25
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CSB REPORTING
208.890.5198
are no conversations at all- recorded in there with regard
to what he and I discussed or what he
Commission discussed, and Commissioner
your point, you know, folks in Atlanta
at this pol-nt in time, because we have
with. No one will- appear. There's no
Just l-ike you point out here, there's
There's no Iega1 representative to do
and I and the
Kjellander, to
can't do anything
nobody to deal-
power of attorney.
no representative.
business with.
which wilL probably go a
additional conversatlon
COMMISSIONER KJELLANDER: Thank you, Mr
Meade. I appreciate your comments and I do look forward
to seeing your written comments,
long way
which we
guess Irm a little bit like a
turn me loose, I have another
Raper touched on it in part in
something to recej-vershi-p, but
rea11y, what our authority is
receivership, because if it's
towards teeing up
appreciate.
Earl-ier when
thought
if we're
our
some
of going over to the
several months into
was asking questJ-ons, I
c1ock, you wind me up and
question and Commissioner
that we don't want to push
I woul-d like to know,
in reference to
j-nadequate, while the
I
legj-slature
wefcome the
especially
find that
for us to have
statute is inadequate, it
additional discussions as
legislature,
it, if in fact we
1s well worth it
to whether or
is still- in sessi-on and while I do not
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208.890.5198
not something l-ike
of sorts to look at
updating it if the
non-existent.
It's
raised in the past
this may warrant almost an
that statute and perhaps
emergency
consider
all the resources that
language is perceived inadequate or
an issue, too, that f think we have
small- water companies and whil-e
are used to provide utility
with
services to
clearly see
people can
the extent
and also
what our
actually dle
that we have
because they
tryingpeople to
clearIy, I'd
and whether
consumer lt, but to
repair a system
fike to know
or not it's
customers are extraordinary important, we can
with water if it's not treated properly that
run the same risk,
authority is there
to the extent thatadequate if we need to proceed to
receivership what those options might be.
COMMISSIONER ANDERSON: Thank you. Just a
reminder that the record is open on this docket and it
will remain open, so I encourage anything you can get in,
get into it, and are there any other questions before the
Commission? Hearing none, we are adjourned.
(The Hearing adjourned at 10220 a.m. )
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CSB REPORT]NG
208.890. s198
AUTHENTICATION
This 1s to certify that
proceedings held in the matter of
the foregoing
the investigation of
customer relations,Atl-anta Power Company
10:00 a
service and
commencj-ng at m., on Tuesday, February 79, 2019,
at the Commission Hearing Roomr 412
true and
West Washington
correct transcript ofStreet, Boise, fdaho, is a
said proceedings and the
the Commission.
origlnal thereof for the fil-e of
CONSTANCE
Certified
S. BUCY
Shorthand Report 6t
@NSTANCESBUCY
NOTARY PUBLIC. STATE OF IDAI.IO
COMMISSION NUMBER 1MO5
MY COttlMlSSlON P(PIRES &$2021
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