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HomeMy WebLinkAboutPRESTON.txt 1 PRESTON, IDAHO, TUESDAY, AUGUST 31, 1999, 7:15 P.M. 2 3 4 COMMISSIONER HANSEN: Well, good 5 evening. This hearing will be in order. This is 6 the time and place set by the Idaho Public Utility 7 Commission for a public hearing in the Case No. 8 PAC-E-99-1, known as In the matter of the joint 9 Application and Petition of PacifiCorp and 10 ScottishPower plc for a Order approving proposed 11 transaction and an Order approving the issuance of 12 PacifiCorp common stock. 13 I am Commissioner Dennis Hansen and 14 I'll be Chairman of tonight's hearing. At my left 15 is Commissioner Paul Kjellander. And Commissioner 16 Marsha Smith is the other Commissioner and is out of 17 state on Commission business today and could not 18 attend the hearing. The three of us make up the 19 Commission, and the three of us will be the ones 20 that decide this merger case. Commissioner Smith 21 will have the opportunity to read the transcripts of 22 tonight's hearing, and so she will be able to read 23 your testimonies and she will also be aware of your 24 feelings about the merger. 25 We have some of -- the main purpose of 1509 HEDRICK COURT REPORTING COLLOQUY P.O. BOX 578, BOISE, ID 83701 1 this hearing this evening is to hear from you, the 2 public, but before we can start, we have to take 3 care of a few matters, and the first is to take the 4 official appearances of the parties that have filed 5 in this case. So we'll start with the Public 6 Utilities Staff and we'll work our way across. 7 MR. PURDY: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 8 My name is Brad Purdy. I'm a Deputy Attorney 9 General, and I represent the Commission Staff in 10 this proceeding. With me tonight are Rick Sterling, 11 who is a Staff engineer, and Beverly Barker, who is 12 with our consumer assistance division. 13 COMMISSIONER HANSEN: Okay. Thank 14 you. 15 Mr. Miller. 16 MR. MILLER: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 17 Am I being heard? 18 Thank you, Mr. Chairman. On behalf 19 of ScottishPower, my name is Joe Miller of the 20 firm McDevitt and Miller. To my left is 21 Mr. John Eriksson, the attorney for PacifiCorp. To 22 my right is Mr. Blake Hall, attorney of Idaho Falls, 23 who has been associated -- pardon me. 24 COMMISSIONER HANSEN: Probably, 25 Mr. Miller, have to turn the mike around and talk to 1510 HEDRICK COURT REPORTING COLLOQUY P.O. BOX 578, BOISE, ID 83701 1 them that way. 2 MR. MILLER: Is that better? 3 A VOICE: Yes. 4 MR. MILLER: Apologize for not being 5 heard at first. I'll start over. 6 My name is Joe Miller. I'm an 7 attorney for ScottishPower. Seated here is 8 Mr. John Eriksson, who is the attorney for 9 PacifiCorp, and just standing now is Mr. Blake Hall, 10 attorney of Idaho Falls, who has been associated by 11 the Companies in this matter. 12 There are also some officials from the 13 Company here who weren't able to sit with us up at 14 the front, but I'll introduce them and they will 15 raise their hands in the back: Mr. Bob -- or, 16 Matthew Wright, Mr. Bob Moir, Mr. Ray Tulloch, and 17 Ms. Rachel Sherrard. She's with us. All these 18 people are knowledgeable with respect to the details 19 of the merger, and I anticipate that any of the 20 breaks that we take this evening, if you have any 21 questions that you would like to address for the 22 Company specifically, any question you would like 23 information on, by that time we will have gotten the 24 Company officials up here so you can ask them 25 questions if you like. 1511 HEDRICK COURT REPORTING COLLOQUY P.O. BOX 578, BOISE, ID 83701 1 Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 2 COMMISSIONER HANSEN: Thank you, 3 Mr. Miller. 4 Mr. Budge. 5 MR. BUDGE: Randy Budge. I'm an 6 attorney in Pocatello, and I represent Solutia in 7 this matter, formerly Monsanto, who operates the 8 phosphorus plant in Soda Springs. And at my right 9 here is Jim Smith; he's in charge of electricity 10 procurement for Solutia. 11 And I'll make the similar comments 12 that during the break, Jim will be available, as 13 will I, and feel free to approach us with any 14 questions that you have regarding Solutia's 15 position. I will make a brief comment just as a -- 16 Not working? How about that? 17 COMMISSIONER HANSEN: Yes. 18 MR. BUDGE: Let me make a very brief 19 comment. Many of you have come here with the 20 expectation to hear argument or presentation or 21 cross-examination by perhaps the Irrigators who are 22 here or Solutia or others. I wanted to comment and 23 let you be aware that this is a proceeding to obtain 24 your testimony, the public testimony, as has been 25 indicated by Chairman Hansen. We're not here to 1512 HEDRICK COURT REPORTING COLLOQUY P.O. BOX 578, BOISE, ID 83701 1 cross-examine witnesses. We do not intend to 2 present any testimony or argument, and likely will 3 not have any questions. We're simply here as 4 observers as well. And I want to make that 5 explanation, because some people wonder what we're 6 doing. And that's basically it. 7 COMMISSIONER HANSEN: Mr. Nye. 8 MR. NYE: Testing. My name is 9 Marc Nye from the Pocatello firm Racine, Olson, Nye, 10 Budge, and Bailey. We represent the Idaho 11 Irrigation Pumpers Association. Likewise, we will 12 not be making any presentation or asking questions 13 tonight. That's been done before. The Idaho 14 Irrigation Pumpers are on record of being in 15 opposition to the proposed merger. 16 THE AUDIENCE: (Applause.) 17 MR. NYE: We will not be asking 18 questions or making presentation, but we will be 19 continuing in our opposition of this matter. 20 Thank you. 21 COMMISSIONER HANSEN: I was looking at 22 my notes, and when I heard that applause I thought 23 maybe Mr. Nye was going to sing a song or something. 24 THE AUDIENCE: (Laughter.) 25 COMMISSIONER HANSEN: Well, we -- did 1513 HEDRICK COURT REPORTING COLLOQUY P.O. BOX 578, BOISE, ID 83701 1 I miss any parties? 2 Okay, is there any matters that need 3 to be taken up by any of the parties before we move 4 into the public hearing process? 5 Okay, thank you. 6 Before we begin the hearing this 7 evening, I'd just like to make a couple of comments. 8 I'd like to review the appropriate standards for 9 evaluating the merger that are contained in the 10 Idaho Code 61-328. I'll just review those quickly, 11 because this is what the Public Utility 12 Commission -- this is the guidance in the Code and 13 the law that we need to go by as we evaluate this 14 merger. 15 Number one, that the public interest 16 will not be adversely affected by this transaction. 17 Number two, that the cost of and the 18 rates for supplying electrical service will not 19 increase by the reason of such transaction. 20 And, three, that in this case, 21 ScottishPower has a bona fide intent and financial 22 ability to operate and maintain electrical property 23 to be used for public service. 24 The Public Utility Commission is 25 required to follow a judicial format at our 1514 HEDRICK COURT REPORTING COLLOQUY P.O. BOX 578, BOISE, ID 83701 1 hearings. We have a recorder here that records your 2 testimony. It's very important that we follow this 3 format because the Public Utilities Decisions can be 4 appealed to the Idaho Supreme Court directly, and so 5 occasionally this does happen, and when the Idaho 6 Supreme Court reviews one of our Decisions, they 7 look at what is in the record. And so what you say 8 here today will go in the record, and it's important 9 that it is recorded. 10 When you come and testify, you will be 11 asked your name and your address so that that is in 12 the record and can be there for reference if needed 13 in the future. 14 I would ask you in following this 15 procedure, if you would please not applaud this 16 evening. I know that at times, you're very enthused 17 and can be enthused and excited about what someone 18 says. It's very inappropriate to applaud, and I 19 would appreciate it if you would hold your applause. 20 That way, we can move along more quickly. There is 21 a lot of people here to testify this evening, and we 22 would appreciate your holding the applause and 23 listening to the testimony given. 24 The other point I would like to make 25 is one other personal point, is that the -- I know I 1515 HEDRICK COURT REPORTING COLLOQUY P.O. BOX 578, BOISE, ID 83701 1 read in the paper and hear that the Public Utility 2 Commission had already made up their mind. That is 3 not true. We, as Commissioners, we have not even 4 discussed this case. We will not until after this 5 hearing this evening. We then may start our 6 deliberations after we have received the final 7 briefs and comments. But it has not been discussed 8 among the Commissioners, and I can assure you that 9 no Decision has been made regarding this merger 10 case. 11 With that, we will start our public 12 hearing this evening. As I mentioned, the purpose 13 of coming here is to hear from you. Following the 14 judicial procedure that we have, you're not allowed 15 at these hearings to ask questions. It is here to 16 get your statements, and so what we will do is we 17 will take a break down in an hour or so and those of 18 you that do have questions, you will be able to come 19 up and ask the different parties here. We have 20 ScottishPower, PacifiCorp, Solutia, the Staff, the 21 Idaho Irrigation Pumpers. You can ask them any 22 questions and they will be here to answer your 23 questions. But the purpose of this hearing is to 24 hear from you and how you feel about the merger. 25 There's a sign-up sheet as you come 1516 HEDRICK COURT REPORTING COLLOQUY P.O. BOX 578, BOISE, ID 83701 1 in. Those of you that haven't signed up that 2 would -- as we proceed on with the hearing and would 3 like to sign up and give your testimony or make a 4 statement, if you'll do so, we'll collect these 5 throughout the evening and you'll be given that 6 opportunity. 7 Because of the number that have signed 8 up this evening, I would ask you if you could limit 9 your statements to four minutes. I mean, we asked 10 this today in Grace and we had a crowd similar to 11 this, and it took us four and a half hours to get 12 through the testimonies there. So it isn't that 13 we'd like -- we'd like to hear all you have to say, 14 but if you could kind of narrow that to four 15 minutes, we would appreciate that. 16 What I'll do is I'll call your name. 17 If you would come forward, Commissioner Kjellander 18 will swear you in. He'll ask you to raise your 19 hand, then swear that you'll tell the truth. And 20 then if you'll just stand at the podium there, the 21 Deputy Attorney General will ask you a couple of 22 questions I mentioned -- your name and your address 23 for the record and who you represent -- and then 24 you'll be allowed to make your statement. 25 After your statement, there may be 1517 HEDRICK COURT REPORTING COLLOQUY P.O. BOX 578, BOISE, ID 83701 1 questions regarding wanting to clarify maybe what 2 you said or statements you made. The different 3 parties have that right to ask you a question and 4 they may -- we'll ask -- we'll inquire if they have 5 a question for you. The Commissioners also may have 6 a question. And if we do, we'll find out, ask you 7 the question. If you don't know the answer, it's 8 fine to say, I don't know. If there's no questions, 9 then you can take your seat and we'll move on. 10 So we'll start, and the first 11 individual signed up this evening is Jim Lyons. 12 MR. PURDY: And, ladies and gentlemen, 13 to help speed things along, when you approach the 14 witness stand, if, as Commissioner Hansen requested, 15 you'll give your name, please spell it for the court 16 reporter, provide us with your address, indicate 17 whether you are a PacifiCorp customer currently, and 18 give us an idea of whether you're speaking just for 19 yourself or whether you represent some group or 20 business, that would be helpful. 21 Thank you. 22 23 24 25 1518 HEDRICK COURT REPORTING COLLOQUY P.O. BOX 578, BOISE, ID 83701 1 JIM LYONS, 2 appearing as a public witness, being first duly 3 sworn, was examined and testified as follows: 4 5 EXAMINATION 6 7 BY MR. PURDY: 8 Q. Did you get all that? Go ahead with 9 your name, please. 10 A. Jim Lyons, user of the Bear River, 11 buyer of agricultural products from this valley, and 12 retired attorney, or semiretired. 13 Q. And you approached the witness stand 14 earlier in Grace today, did you not? 15 A. Right. 16 Q. And already provided us with your 17 address? 18 A. Right. 19 Q. Is your intended testimony the same as 20 it was earlier this afternoon? 21 A. Well, I didn't cover all of it. Yes, 22 pretty much so. 23 MR. ERIKSSON: Mr. Chairman. 24 COMMISSIONER HANSEN: Mr. Eriksson. 25 MR. ERIKSSON: As indicated this 1519 HEDRICK COURT REPORTING LYONS P.O. BOX 578, BOISE, ID 83701 Public 1 afternoon, Mr. Lyons is not a customer of 2 PacifiCorp, and on that basis, I would object to his 3 testimony. If anything, I think he's indicated a 4 very, very tangential relationship to products 5 produced by irrigators in the valley. The same can 6 hold true for anyone in the United States that buys 7 potatoes. 8 COMMISSIONER HANSEN: Mr. Lyons, are 9 you -- are you being paid to represent anyone in 10 this case? 11 THE WITNESS: No. I've come here from 12 Boise at my own expense. 13 MR. NYE: Mr. Chairman. 14 COMMISSIONER HANSEN: Yes, Mr. Nye. 15 MR. NYE: At a public hearing, I don't 16 know that we wouldn't say anybody that's public can 17 testify if they're brief and relevant. They don't 18 have to be customers. So we could just move on. 19 COMMISSIONER HANSEN: Mr. Lyons, for 20 the sake of time, all those that are here to 21 testify, I'm going to allow you to state your 22 testimony. However, if any of the parties feel like 23 that you've gone beyond the bounds of a public 24 hearing in your statement, I would entertain the 25 objection. So you can begin. 1520 HEDRICK COURT REPORTING LYONS P.O. BOX 578, BOISE, ID 83701 Public 1 THE WITNESS: All right. Essentially, 2 after the hearing at Grace, it became quite apparent 3 that the great interest here was in local control 4 and keeping rates within reason. By my own 5 experience, my old city of Bonners Ferry Power and 6 Light has had the lowest rates in Idaho for years. 7 They own their own dam, power generating facilities, 8 and buy directly from Bonneville Power 9 Administration. They acquired their assets by 10 condemning away those of the existing power company 11 in Bonners Ferry. It has been a very successful 12 operation. 13 I briefly researched the law for those 14 who asked that I come over here, and the counties do 15 have the authority to condemn the assets. That way, 16 a local jury here in this county and each of the 17 other counties determines the sales price. Comes 18 under the Greater Equities Doctrine, which was 19 mentioned to me by a PUC Staff attorney. Money to 20 take care of this is available from the federal 21 government, as I understand it, from the Idaho Rural 22 Council; there is zero to five percent money 23 primarily for co-ops or REA -- REAs. 24 I attempted to find out who is 25 ScottishPower. As an attorney who has done some 1521 HEDRICK COURT REPORTING LYONS P.O. BOX 578, BOISE, ID 83701 Public 1 securities work, I immediately looked to who were 2 the beneficial owners. And the words "beneficial 3 owners" are words of legal art. There has been no 4 means -- full disclosure is what I'm looking for. 5 Full disclosure has not been complied with with the 6 IPUC, the State securities as concerned, or the 7 appearance of this business in Idaho, and not 8 qualifying there, there is nothing on the federal 9 securities Web site. 10 The Secretary of State searched 11 through all five areas of corporations -- limited 12 liability corporations, limited partnership, 13 limited -- well, everything. ScottishPower does not 14 appear there. 15 Inquiry was made of the Idaho Tax 16 Commission, and it will require a governmental 17 inquiry to find out if they have qualified with the 18 Idaho Tax Commission. 19 So before going any further, I suggest 20 that the people here find out who ScottishPower is, 21 particularly the beneficial owners. 22 Personally, I am dismayed at seeing 23 regulated businesses being converted into vehicles 24 for greed. And one only has to look at what's gone 25 on with U S WEST. And then what they do, they drive 1522 HEDRICK COURT REPORTING LYONS P.O. BOX 578, BOISE, ID 83701 Public 1 the services down -- cost of services down, and that 2 way they can show more profits, which makes them 3 more profitable. So -- 4 COMMISSIONER HANSEN: Mr. Lyons, you 5 have one minute. 6 THE WITNESS: Okay. So -- I'll be 7 done very quickly. 8 So it boils down, from my point of 9 view, whether family, neighborhood, and local values 10 are more important, or the greed of an international 11 speculator. 12 Thank you. 13 COMMISSIONER HANSEN: Thank you, 14 Mr. Lyons. Let's see if we have any questions. 15 Mr. Purdy. 16 MR. PURDY: I do. 17 18 CROSS-EXAMINATION 19 20 BY MR. PURDY: 21 Q. I have to ask, Mr. Lyons, please refer 22 me again to the equities act you mentioned. 23 A. It's under the City of Burley case, 24 Unity Power versus Burley. I can supply this to you 25 later. It appears in the Idaho Code. The City of 1523 HEDRICK COURT REPORTING LYONS (X) P.O. BOX 578, BOISE, ID 83701 Public 1 Burley case is in 92 Idaho. It's also in Am.Jur.2. 2 I have the sections here, but rather than prolong 3 the hearings, I can give them to you in Boise. 4 Q. That would be fine. You indicated 5 that there - that you spoke with an attorney at the 6 Public Utilities Commission. I have to ask you, who 7 was that? 8 A. Don Howell. 9 Q. Okay. 10 MR. PURDY: That's all I have. Thank 11 you. 12 COMMISSIONER HANSEN: Mr. Miller. 13 MR. MILLER: No questions, 14 Mr. Chairman. 15 I would say that the Companies have 16 been more -- obviously been more than willing to 17 listen to any comments of our customers and we're 18 more than willing to do that again. We would just 19 ask I guess when the Commission consider the record 20 and determine what weight to give to what witnesses, 21 that the Commission bear in mind that this was 22 primarily some kind of legal argument from a person 23 who really hasn't demonstrated a substantial 24 interest in the case. So when you deliberate the 25 case, we just ask you to take that into account. 1524 HEDRICK COURT REPORTING LYONS (X) P.O. BOX 578, BOISE, ID 83701 Public 1 COMMISSIONER HANSEN: Mr. Miller, the 2 Commission will take that into account. 3 Mr. Eriksson? Mr. Budge? 4 MR. BUDGE: No questions. 5 COMMISSIONER HANSEN: Mr. Nye? 6 Thank you very much for your 7 testimony. 8 THE WITNESS: Thank you. I don't plan 9 on activating my law license and appearing in this 10 action unless I receive request to do so. 11 Thank you. 12 COMMISSIONER HANSEN: Jay Moyle. 13 14 JAY MOYLE, 15 appearing as a public witness, being first duly 16 sworn, was examined and testified as follows: 17 18 THE WITNESS: I'm Jay Moyle. I'm a 19 customer of PacifiCorp. My address is 10 South 20 Main, Clifton, Idaho, 83228. 21 MR. PURDY: Would you spell your name, 22 please, sir? 23 THE WITNESS: J-A-Y, M-O-Y-L-E. 24 MR. PURDY: Thank you. 25 THE WITNESS: I represent many of the 1525 HEDRICK COURT REPORTING MOYLE P.O. BOX 578, BOISE, ID 83701 Public 1 food store owners in our county, and we understand 2 that the outcome is in your hands. And one of 3 the -- as we lift the blanket that covers this 4 merger, we see from Internet sources and newspaper 5 articles statements from other hearings, and common 6 sense, we have reason to be concerned, even fearful 7 and downright scared of this proposed merger. I've 8 outlined some of those concerns and I'm not going to 9 be able to cover them in four minutes, so I'll just 10 cover a couple of the more important ones. 11 Power outages concern us very greatly 12 as food store owners. Past 22 years, I've owned 13 businesses that have depended on Utah Power and now 14 PacifiCorp for electricity. Power outages have 15 increased in number and duration during the merger 16 of PacifiCorp with Utah Power. We have lived in 17 this reduction in service and have been able to so 18 far to observe the loss of production on our own. 19 The longest times that I can recall -- and I have a 20 record of this year on the computer printouts that 21 we have -- is somewhere in the area of four to five 22 years. I can understand reduction in service as a 23 result of PacifiCorp reduction in people. To do 24 needed maintenance instead of replacing suspicious 25 power poles that are leaning over and has a rotted 1526 HEDRICK COURT REPORTING MOYLE P.O. BOX 578, BOISE, ID 83701 Public 1 base, their current program has led to fall down and 2 then replace, which in the long run costs them more, 3 and then the result, we have to pay for it through 4 the rates that we pay. Our last two major power 5 outages this summer in the service to the west side 6 of this valley were caused by poles falling over. 7 Now, I'm submitting for your record 8 photographs that I have taken as of last Friday of 9 poles that are suspicious in our area on the west 10 side. We're waiting for these poles to drop across 11 roads and into residential areas where children 12 play. And all these are known to personnel of 13 PacifiCorp who say we just have to wait until they 14 fall over. The old Utah Power Company program was 15 to replace these poles before they fell down. 16 This is what really scares many of us 17 as about this proposed merger with ScottishPower. 18 They're acquiring problems that they may or that 19 they may not be aware of, and for them to spread the 20 word that they will reduce again overhead which 21 equates to manpower reduction, and power outages 22 will be more frequent and longer duration. As you 23 look at the pittance that they offer for power 24 outage to businesses like mine, $100, and 25 residential 50 for a 24-hour duration of power 1527 HEDRICK COURT REPORTING MOYLE P.O. BOX 578, BOISE, ID 83701 Public 1 outage, this must be in anticipation that under 2 their operations we'll have such outages. 3 In my business, power out for four 4 hours, we would lose dairy and meat products. 5 Twelve hours, we would be a result of a loss of 6 frozen foods. My business, as small as it is, 7 equates into the thousands of dollars. 8 Myself, I'd rather live with our 9 present program than take a chance with a new 10 provider on their ridiculous promises. Power 11 outages may be a common thing, but it's going to 12 cause more loss than what we've had in the past. 13 I'm also submitting for the record my 14 computer printout that runs our business, and if you 15 review this record, since January of this year, 16 you'll see that we have been out of power on and 17 off -- which are basically brownouts -- over 50 18 times. Our question is, can this merger improve the 19 problem and do it with less costs than we pay now? 20 All of our research tells us very loudly, "no." 21 As customers, we would have to expect 22 ScottishPower to be less responsive to power outages 23 than PacifiCorp currently is today. After all, 24 ScottishPower now have in their promises 24 hours or 25 longer to get the power back into service. Can you 1528 HEDRICK COURT REPORTING MOYLE P.O. BOX 578, BOISE, ID 83701 Public 1 imagine the devastation that this would cause to all 2 businesses that have freezers and refrigerators, 3 homes, home freezers, and to irrigators, and even to 4 the dairy herds? All I can visualize under the 5 power outage promise by ScottishPower is crops 6 burning up for the lack of water and business owners 7 losing inventory and so forth. 8 Remember, we don't get anything under 9 their promise if the pole falls over by the wind, 10 and we don't get anything in reimbursement if the 11 power is out for 23 hours and 59 minutes. 12 There's other things that concern us. 13 Turning off the power for maintenance, a very weak 14 promise, shallow promise, of $50 to pay if they 15 don't give us notification for two days. 16 COMMISSIONER HANSEN: Mr. Moyle, you 17 have one more minute. 18 THE WITNESS: Fine. 19 Their appointments. Meet an 20 appointment. $50 is unacceptable if they don't meet 21 an appointment within two days. That's wrong. If 22 they don't meet an appointment, I think a telephone 23 can tell us a lot if they will just use it. 24 Their performance standards according 25 to the Oregon Public Utility Commission is very 1529 HEDRICK COURT REPORTING MOYLE P.O. BOX 578, BOISE, ID 83701 Public 1 short of existing standards that they have already 2 in Oregon. 3 ScottishPower stated to its 4 stockholders that they saw in PacifiCorp opportunity 5 to reduce overhead and increase rates. I know all 6 this translates to fewer employees to provide 7 critical services with higher rates. If you will 8 recall the last merger with PacifiCorp and 9 Utah Power and Light, we were promised lower rates 10 and better service. History tells us they didn't 11 keep their promise. 12 Now, why do we have to be -- to -- and 13 I'll skip that, but I would plead with the 14 Commission to stop this proposed merger. 15 Here again is a sore spot with many of 16 us: Because of news releases on the merger earlier 17 this year, we were led to believe that this was a 18 done deal and we had no say in it. I'm so thankful 19 for those of you who made this hearing possible, and 20 we can't thank you enough. 21 Let's make PacifiCorp a better 22 company, rather than selling off to a foreign 23 company with foreign ways of doing business. Let's 24 keep our money in Idaho. There has to be better 25 options if you Commissioners stop this merger. 1530 HEDRICK COURT REPORTING MOYLE P.O. BOX 578, BOISE, ID 83701 Public 1 At this moment in time, I feel 2 somewhat like our forefathers over 200 years ago 3 stopping taxation without representation. I feel if 4 you three Commissioners allow this merger to happen, 5 we will be taking a big step backwards 200 years: 6 Rate increases, which equates to "taxation", less 7 service, which equates to "without representation." 8 I plead that you'll vote against this 9 merger. 10 I'd like to submit into evidence the 11 pictures that I personally took with suspicious 12 power poles in our area on the west side, and also a 13 computer printout for my business that tells you of 14 the power outages that shows you what's happened 15 over there with the present service. 16 COMMISSIONER HANSEN: Thank you, 17 Mr. Moyle, for your testimony. Let's see if there's 18 any questions. 19 Mr. Purdy? 20 21 EXAMINATION 22 23 BY COMMISSIONER HANSEN: 24 Q. I have one: 25 Mr. Moir -- 1531 HEDRICK COURT REPORTING MOYLE (Com P.O. BOX 578, BOISE, ID 83701 Public 1 A. Moyle. Moyle. 2 Q. Excuse me. Mr. Moyle? 3 A. M-O-Y-L-E. 4 Q. If you were convinced that the service 5 quality would improve, if they could prove to you in 6 this merger that you were going to have a lot better 7 service and detail it to you, if they could show you 8 where the rates were actually going to be less than 9 PacifiCorp if the merger didn't take place, would 10 you then be for the merger or would you still be 11 against the merger? 12 A. We're looking for better service no 13 matter who has it, and we're looking for rate 14 reduction, because we're the highest. We're the 15 highest right now. Everybody that borders us, 16 PacifiCorp in the state of Idaho has lower rates, 17 even PacifiCorp south of the border. South of the 18 border pays less, 12 and a half percent less in Utah 19 than we pay here in Idaho for the same power. 20 Q. So if you could be convinced that you 21 were going to see a rate reduction and receive 22 better service, would you be for it? 23 A. I think anybody would be, but we can't 24 see that so far in the presentation we've had. 25 COMMISSIONER HANSEN: Thank you for 1532 HEDRICK COURT REPORTING MOYLE (Com) P.O. BOX 578, BOISE, ID 83701 Public 1 your testimony. 2 (The witness left the stand.) 3 COMMISSIONER HANSEN: Before we 4 introduce our next person to testify, I might 5 first recognize this evening we have Representative 6 John Tippets with us and -- from the Idaho 7 Legislature -- and also Senator Bob Geddes. Both 8 Representative Tippets and Senator Geddes testified 9 in Grace earlier today, and so we don't need a 10 duplication in the record so they both indicated 11 they're not testifying tonight, but they have 12 testified. And if anyone here would like a copy of 13 their testimony, if you would write or call the 14 Public Utility Commission when we have the 15 manuscripts there, we'll be glad to make a copy of 16 their testimony if you want to hear it this evening. 17 And then we also have Representative 18 Robert Geddes with us this evening, and he's the 19 next person to testify. He did not testify at Grace 20 today. 21 MR. MILLER: Mr. Chairman, while the 22 witness is getting prepared this afternoon, we asked 23 for and you provided guidance with respect to 24 witnesses who have previously testified, and with 25 respect, of course, to Representative Geddes, even 1533 HEDRICK COURT REPORTING MOYLE (Com) P.O. BOX 578, BOISE, ID 83701 Public 1 though he did not testify at Grace, I think the 2 record shows he did testify at, I believe, 3 Pocatello. So perhaps the Chair could provide 4 guidance for witnesses who have previously 5 testified. 6 COMMISSIONER HANSEN: I would ask 7 Representative Geddes that his testimony tonight 8 would be new testimony that is not already on 9 record, if that would be appropriate for you, 10 Mr. Geddes. 11 REPRESENTATIVE GEDDES: I intend to do 12 that, Mr. Chairman. 13 14 REPRESENTATIVE ROBERT C. GEDDES, 15 appearing as a public witness, being first duly 16 sworn, was examined and testified as follows: 17 18 THE WITNESS: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 19 I'd like to comment on that last statement by 20 Mr. Miller. 21 Previously, when we testified in 22 Pocatello, we were required to go to Pocatello which 23 was outside of our district, where most of our 24 constituents could not attend, and I thought it most 25 appropriate that the Public Utilities Commission 1534 HEDRICK COURT REPORTING GEDDES P.O. BOX 578, BOISE, ID 83701 Public 1 allow us to testify before our people. 2 I guess in furtherance of that 3 objection, I guess I have to object to the fact that 4 you are limiting -- there is an attempt to limit 5 testimony from individuals outside of the service 6 area who are not ratepayers. As I understand, this 7 hearing was advertised as a public hearing, 8 residents of the state of Idaho, with no 9 restrictions placed on residency or where they might 10 buy their power. So I want to register that 11 complaint and objection. 12 Mr. Chairman, I hope you would allow 13 me a little more than four minutes, maybe even 14 eight, because I have a statement from the Governor 15 that I've been asked to read in his behalf, and I'd 16 like that to go into the record. 17 COMMISSIONER HANSEN: Representative 18 Geddes, where you're the co-chairman of JPAC and I'm 19 going to have to bring our budget to you in a few 20 months, I think I'll give you a little more time. 21 THE WITNESS: And for the benefit of 22 the Commission, I understand your position, because 23 I voted against a pay raise two years ago for the 24 Commission. It was approved over my objection. I 25 told that senator that I withheld supporting that 1535 HEDRICK COURT REPORTING GEDDES P.O. BOX 578, BOISE, ID 83701 Public 1 because I was looking for a higher pay raise. 2 COMMISSIONER HANSEN: We certainly 3 appreciate that. 4 THE WITNESS: Mr. Chairman, if I 5 might, I'd begin by reading the statement from our 6 Idaho Governor, Governor Dirk Kempthorne. This 7 arrived not too long ago, but I think he intends 8 that it be read into the record. 9 The State of Idaho and Idaho 10 PacifiCorp customers and ratepayers have legitimate 11 concerns over the proposed merger offer of 12 ScottishPower. Before any action should be taken on 13 this proposal, a number of issues must be addressed 14 to the State's satisfaction. They include 15 presenting factual data concerning the Idaho 16 territory and customer rates to the Idaho Public 17 Utilities Commission. Idaho customers must be 18 treated fairly and equitably, and the rate bases for 19 the current customer rates should be accurately 20 presented, including the comparison between the 21 other PacifiCorp territories and customer bases. 22 Anticipated future rate structure changes should 23 also be provided. 24 The Idaho PUC is to be complimented 25 for holding hearings and meetings in the local area, 1536 HEDRICK COURT REPORTING GEDDES P.O. BOX 578, BOISE, ID 83701 Public 1 and giving local customers the opportunity to 2 express their opinions and concerns. Although 3 opinions are strongly held and emotions run high, 4 the exchange has merit. These hearings, public 5 meetings, and dialogue are truly a good beginning; 6 however, they should just be the beginning. 7 I applaud the active participation by 8 the affected ratepayers, and will carefully consider 9 their concerns and rely heavily on their suggestions 10 as the State considers this merger proposal. 11 Having read that, Mr. Chairman, I -- 12 Didn't ask for my name either. I'm 13 Representative Robert Geddes, residing at 7235 North 14 2600 West, Preston, representing in the Idaho House 15 of Representatives all of the ratepayers in 16 District 32 which are covered by Utah Power, which I 17 believe is everyone. 18 I'm going to start my testimony by 19 asking a question. I don't expect an answer, but I 20 think it's one that ought to be considered. 21 Taking from a news release coming out 22 of Scotland on the 23rd of August at 2:46 p.m. 23 Eastern time: ScottishPower Settles Merger With 24 Idaho and Washington. ScottishPower announced late 25 Friday it had reached agreement with utility 1537 HEDRICK COURT REPORTING GEDDES P.O. BOX 578, BOISE, ID 83701 Public 1 regulators in Idaho and Washington on its plan to 2 acquire the PacifiCorp. 3 Mr. Chairman, I hope that's not a true 4 statement, because if it is, we've not followed the 5 process. And I think the Commission should take 6 into consideration a lot of the adverse publicity 7 that has come up. I'm wondering if it hasn't been 8 the intent to deter interest, given the many people 9 who thought the Decision had already been made. 10 Obviously what we see tonight, that doesn't 11 substantiate that. 12 Mr. Chairman, I'm going to ask that if 13 ScottishPower can do what they have promised, that I 14 would like them to be my financial advisor. If I 15 might just review the summary of the merger: 16 Purchase price for PacifiCorp, 17 7.9 million. 18 ScottishPower transaction costs, 19 250 million. 20 1380 million PacifiCorp transaction 21 costs. 22 Two million to study and determine if 23 postmerger benefits can be realized. 24 Twenty million severance packages for 25 26 top executives of PacifiCorp. 1538 HEDRICK COURT REPORTING GEDDES P.O. BOX 578, BOISE, ID 83701 Public 1 Four-tenths of a million payment to 2 directors of PacifiCorp board of directors. 3 Seven million to retention -- or, 4 retention bonuses for key employees. 5 8.5 million employee recognition pool. 6 I don't know what that is. 7 Employee stock options, and we have no 8 number on that one. 9 Transition costs -- I could enumerate 10 those. I think you already had them in mind -- 11 135 million. 12 Five million payment to stockholders 13 for voting for the merger. 14 Five million payment to stockholders 15 for voting to increase unsecured debt to five 16 billion. 17 Five million commitment to PacifiCorp 18 Foundation to make community donations. 19 Mr. Chairman, in my opinion, if they 20 can promise those kind of promises to the citizens 21 of the state of Idaho and their stockholders, 22 someone is being gouged. And I don't think there's 23 a -- will be -- with those kinds of costs, someone 24 is going to have to pay, and my position, my 25 feeling, is that in most of that, a lot of it, it 1539 HEDRICK COURT REPORTING GEDDES P.O. BOX 578, BOISE, ID 83701 Public 1 will be the ratepayers who pay the price. 2 And so without saying, I think you 3 understand that I oppose the merger. 4 I'm going to issue what I would 5 consider three things that need to be considered: 6 First of all, we're looking for the 7 best deal for the ratepayers of the state of Idaho. 8 I think everyone should be put on the table. 9 ScottishPower might be one of them. We ought to 10 have proposals or opportunities at least from other 11 companies to make proposals as well so that the best 12 interest of the State of Idaho could be seen, could 13 be heard. 14 The second thing is, as I understand, 15 part of the Decision is based on public support or 16 resistance. This is the third hearing that I have 17 attended. Probably 1,000 or 1,200 participants 18 there. I didn't attend the one in Rexburg. I think 19 I counted correctly, and I have heard four or five 20 people express support of the proposal. If this is 21 a government of representation by the people, I 22 think that message needs to be given great 23 consideration. 24 The other question I have is why 25 didn't we get the best deal to start with? Just 1540 HEDRICK COURT REPORTING GEDDES P.O. BOX 578, BOISE, ID 83701 Public 1 within the last few days, ScottishPower has released 2 information that they would provide $1.6 million 3 credit to users. That's not reduction in bills. 4 That's reduction in what they proposed beginning, 5 reduction in rate increases, apparently. It's kind 6 of like a one-person auction, in my opinion: They 7 do only what they have to to keep bidders out. 8 Just announced that they're going to 9 put out an irrigation specialist. Why? Because 10 we've asked for it. But they don't give us the best 11 deal, best package, in my opinion, to start with, 12 and that ought to be mandated by the State of Idaho 13 to do that. 14 I've probably used more than my time, 15 but I just want to suggest, Mr. Chairman, I have all 16 of the confidence in the world in you people. I 17 feel that you will be fair to the people and to the 18 companies involved, and I hope you take seriously 19 what you hear tonight, what you've heard today, and 20 in the other hearings. 21 And in conclusion, I want to thank you 22 for coming to Preston. As was previously announced, 23 there would be only one hearing in Pocatello and 24 Rexburg. Because of what we felt we need, you 25 granted these hearings in Preston and Grace, and we 1541 HEDRICK COURT REPORTING GEDDES P.O. BOX 578, BOISE, ID 83701 Public 1 thank you very much for that. 2 And maybe even more important than 3 that, I want to thank all of those who have come out 4 tonight, because I think truly you are going to get 5 a feel of what the citizens of this area feel about 6 this merger. 7 With that, I thank you, Mr. Chairman, 8 and would stand for questions. 9 COMMISSIONER HANSEN: Thank you for 10 your testimony, Representative. 11 Do we have questions? 12 MR. PURDY: Yes. 13 14 CROSS-EXAMINATION 15 16 BY MR. PURDY: 17 Q. Representative Geddes, two points 18 briefly: 19 I'm going to take some liberties here 20 and do something I wouldn't ordinarily do, and 21 that's just simply to assure you that no agreement 22 in any way directly or indirectly approving this 23 merger has been reached between ScottishPower and 24 the Commission Staff or the Commission itself. So 25 the news report that you have apparently is in 1542 HEDRICK COURT REPORTING GEDDES (X) P.O. BOX 578, BOISE, ID 83701 Public 1 error. I don't know why that is, but rest assured 2 that no Decision has been made, no agreement 3 approving the merger has been reached. 4 Second of all, regarding the letter 5 you referred to from Governor Kempthorne, my 6 question is, first, is that -- is that in the form 7 of a letter or more of a -- would you characterize 8 it as a news release, press release? 9 A. Mr. Chairman, I've not talked to the 10 Governor. He sent it down, asked if I would read 11 it. The title says Statement of Governor Dirk 12 Thorne -- Dirk Kempthorne, the Idaho Public 13 Utilities Commission Hearing. 14 Q. Okay. So it's not addressed to any 15 individual or group or agency? 16 A. It is not. 17 Q. All right. And did you receive that 18 by fax? 19 A. I was handed this tonight by a 20 representative from the Governor. 21 Q. Okay. 22 MR. PURDY: Thank you. 23 COMMISSIONER HANSEN: Okay. 24 Mr. Miller? Mr. Eriksson? Mr. Budge? 25 MR. BUDGE: No questions. 1543 HEDRICK COURT REPORTING GEDDES (X) P.O. BOX 578, BOISE, ID 83701 Public 1 COMMISSIONER HANSEN: Mr. Nye? 2 Commissioner? 3 COMMISSIONER KJELLANDER: Yes. 4 5 EXAMINATION 6 7 BY COMMISSIONER KJELLANDER: 8 Q. Representative Geddes, thanks again 9 for coming tonight. It's good to see you. 10 I'll have to tell you, when I first 11 saw a copy of what I think is the news report you 12 had, I was also a little angry by the headline that 13 the reporter chose to use with that article. If you 14 have that, could you pull that out for a second? I 15 want to make sure it's the same one that I saw that 16 came from the news agency known as Reuter's. Is 17 that correct? 18 A. That's correct. 19 Q. In that article, did you see anyone 20 from the Idaho Public Utilities Commission quoted, 21 either directly or indirectly? 22 A. Mr. Chairman, Commissioner Kjellander, 23 no, there's no reference that I have detected to the 24 Commission, but it does -- it does say that the 25 merger has been settled with Idaho and the -- let me 1544 HEDRICK COURT REPORTING GEDDES (Com) P.O. BOX 578, BOISE, ID 83701 Public 1 get the right words: 2 Late Friday, it had reached agreement 3 with utility regulators -- which I presume would be 4 you folks -- in Idaho and Washington on its plan to 5 acquire PacifiCorp. 6 Q. Could you read for me the last 7 paragraph of that story? 8 A. It says The regulatory agreements in 9 three -- in the three Northwest states are still 10 subject to final votes by the respective Utility 11 Commissions. 12 Q. Okay. 13 A. But, Mr. Commissioner, what I find 14 offensive is they have already made an announcement 15 in their newspapers about the approval of the merger 16 by the State of Idaho, and I think that has some 17 political influence in their -- in their 18 constituency, but it may have also been a deterrent 19 to a lot of interest in the state of Idaho because 20 of that kind of announcement by their company. 21 Q. I guess the only thing that I wanted 22 to raise is that -- with that last paragraph is as 23 angry as I was when I read the headline and having 24 been a former reporter, that headline did disturb 25 me, because I know I would view it if that's all I 1545 HEDRICK COURT REPORTING GEDDES (Com) P.O. BOX 578, BOISE, ID 83701 Public 1 saw. If there's any consolation that I felt -- and 2 there wasn't much -- it was in that last paragraph 3 that said the Commissions had not yet approved it 4 and it still had to go before Commission approval. 5 Do you feel confident enough in at 6 least seeing that statement there, while I wouldn't 7 give that article any credibility, that at least 8 they recognize that the Commissioners in those three 9 states have yet to approve any type of settlement or 10 discussion related to a settlement as it relates to 11 this merger? 12 A. Mr. Commissioner, I guess my concern 13 would be what states have to be? They could have 14 been referring -- they referred to Idaho and 15 Washington. It may be Idaho, Utah, California, or 16 Nevada that could have made that comment. If they 17 would have been specific in saying that Idaho had 18 not approved the merger, I would have felt much more 19 comfortable. 20 But I think that I read this because I 21 think this is deceptive -- a deceptive ploy to get 22 approval of the merger and approval by the citizens 23 of the state of Idaho. 24 COMMISSIONER KJELLANDER: Thank you. 25 COMMISSIONER HANSEN: Thank you. 1546 HEDRICK COURT REPORTING GEDDES (Com) P.O. BOX 578, BOISE, ID 83701 Public 1 MR. BUDGE: Mr. Chairman and 2 Representative Geddes, I think his intention was to 3 leave that statement and make it part of the record, 4 but I don't believe he did that. So if that was 5 intended, maybe the statement could be left as a 6 part of the record. 7 THE WITNESS: Mr. Chairman, I will 8 do that. I will also leave the statement of 9 Governor Kempthorne. 10 COMMISSIONER HANSEN: Please leave 11 that there at the desk then. 12 Any other questions? 13 Okay. Thank you for your testimony, 14 and I hope you will remember when we visit you in 15 March that we gave you all the time you wanted. 16 THE AUDIENCE: (Laughter.) 17 (The witness left the stand.) 18 COMMISSIONER HANSEN: I'd like to 19 mention, those that are standing back there, if you 20 would like to come up on the sides, I have no 21 objection. There's -- on both sides, there's even 22 some tables you can sit on. If you can hear better 23 on the sides, you're welcome to come back up there, 24 because I see we've got them clear out into the 25 street. 1547 HEDRICK COURT REPORTING GEDDES (Com) P.O. BOX 578, BOISE, ID 83701 Public 1 Okay, we'll move along. 2 Ilene Sherman. 3 4 ILENE SHERMAN, 5 appearing as a public witness, being first duly 6 sworn, was examined and testified as follows: 7 8 MR. PURDY: Please go ahead, ma'am. 9 THE WITNESS: My name is Ilene 10 Sherman. I live at 105 North First West in Preston 11 Idaho. My spelling of my name is I-L-E-N-E 12 S-H-E-R-M-A-N. 13 I'm just a plain, ordinary citizen, 14 and I have concerns about a foreign power coming 15 into our United States to take over a utility which 16 is so important to us. I guess the thoughts that's 17 been going through my mind is I've been thinking 18 about this. I thought of all the little wars we've 19 been in through the many, many hundreds of years to 20 preserve our country, to be independent, and to be 21 on its own. And it seems to me like that too many 22 countries are buying into our government and into 23 our things right now. And I really feel like that 24 we are able to stand on our own two feet and provide 25 services for our own country without another country 1548 HEDRICK COURT REPORTING SHERMAN P.O. BOX 578, BOISE, ID 83701 Public 1 coming in. 2 I have nothing against the country of 3 Scotland. I have ancestors that have come from 4 there, but I really feel like that we should take 5 care of ourselves. 6 And I know our rates are high, but I 7 would rather pay the high rates that I pay right now 8 to Utah Power and Light than to see it sold to a 9 foreign country. I just do not approve of it and I 10 guess maybe it's being narrow-minded, but I don't -- 11 I don't like it. 12 And I just wanted to speak my peace 13 tonight and let everybody know that I don't have a 14 lot of statistics, I don't have a lot of knowledge 15 about the merger or anything. I just basically just 16 don't approve of it. 17 COMMISSIONER HANSEN: Thank you for 18 your testimony. Let's see if we have any questions. 19 Questions from any of the parties? 20 Commissioner? 21 Thank you. 22 (The witness left the stand.) 23 COMMISSIONER HANSEN: Well now we have 24 the Mayor of Preston, Jay Heuser. 25 While the Mayor is coming up, I might 1549 HEDRICK COURT REPORTING SHERMAN P.O. BOX 578, BOISE, ID 83701 Public 1 mention I recall our telephone hearing here we had. 2 We had a good crowd but not this big, so I can see 3 that electricity means more to you than your 4 telephone. But it was big; it was close. 5 6 JAY B. HEUSSER, 7 appearing as a public witness, being first duly 8 sworn, was examined and testified as follows: 9 10 THE WITNESS: Jay B. Heusser, 11 H-E-U-S-S-E-R. I am a current Utah ratepayer, Utah 12 Power ratepayer; Mayor of the city of Preston; 13 currently a board member for Southeastern Idaho 14 Community Action Agency, which is SEICAA, board 15 member of the Association of Idaho Cities, board 16 member for the Southeastern Idaho Council of 17 Governments, all three boards representing seven 18 southern counties in Southeastern Idaho. 19 Appreciate your comment on the phone, 20 Commissioner. I thought you folks did a nice job 21 and we were able to get needed service. 22 I want to thank you again for coming 23 to Preston and scheduling these hearings. I hope 24 myself we'll be able to express the desires in a 25 professional manner. 1550 HEDRICK COURT REPORTING HEUSSER P.O. BOX 578, BOISE, ID 83701 Public 1 I will testify today that the Scottish 2 people -- the gentleman in the purple shirt and the 3 lady that was with him -- came to Preston, did meet 4 with me, answered my questions. I was very 5 comfortable with the questions and the answers that 6 I were given, and I appreciate their efforts. 7 I have researched and read a lot of 8 articles about these proceedings, and I can look 9 around the room and I choose not to repeat some of 10 the testimony that I know will be submitted. 11 Mr. Budge is currently working on 12 water rights with the City of Preston, and I have a 13 great concern about water rights and I'll let other 14 testimony on that. 15 I previously -- I previously expressed 16 my concerns when PacifiCorp closed our Preston 17 office and moved equipment and jobs out of our area. 18 I wrote a letter to PacifiCorp objecting to those -- 19 that closure. My main concern was the loss of jobs 20 and I felt that it adversely affected our community. 21 And, in fact, with your closure, we hired two of 22 their employees. They were that well trained and -- 23 but lost their jobs. Luckily we were able to pick 24 them up for the City. 25 Another concern was the service that I 1551 HEDRICK COURT REPORTING HEUSSER P.O. BOX 578, BOISE, ID 83701 Public 1 felt that would be leaving our area. On the bright 2 side, we do have some very courageous and good local 3 employees: Ryan Hobley, Richard Westerberg, 4 Glen Jamison, along with others. I feel we're very 5 fortunate. If we didn't have those people, we would 6 not have the type of service that I would like to 7 see in Preston. 8 I am concerned that all telephone 9 calls concerning billing and service problems mainly 10 go to a person at a switchboard in Salt Lake City. 11 I am greatly opposed to that. 12 I have a great concern for more local 13 job loss or transfers if the merger happens. We've 14 been spoiled by the local service and I'm afraid 15 that what I saw with PacifiCorp might happen with 16 ScottishPower, even though I basically have been 17 assured that it will not. 18 I understand -- I understand 19 downsizing and trimming of jobs, and I think it can 20 happen and will happen. 21 I believe that at a recent SEICOG 22 meeting -- Southeastern Idaho Council of Government 23 meeting -- there was a unanimous resolution prepared 24 that will be submitted that the seven Southern 25 counties are objected to the merger with 1552 HEDRICK COURT REPORTING HEUSSER P.O. BOX 578, BOISE, ID 83701 Public 1 ScottishPower based on quite a bit of testimony that 2 we've already heard. 3 I have a great concern that the 4 PacifiCorp managers will be receiving large buyouts 5 and bonuses in order for this merger to go through. 6 I believe that someone has to pay for this. I 7 believe that the shareholders will pay that burden. 8 Those shareholders reside in Franklin County and 9 Preston City. And I believe also the local rate 10 user could be affected. I believe that that money 11 paid for those managers should be reinvested in our 12 local services in opening up our local center and 13 bringing the employees that we need to cover 14 Southeastern Idaho. 15 As I did research, I understand the 16 State of Oregon approved this merger as long as laws 17 requiring the mergers demonstrate public benefit, 18 that service standards are written, and conservation 19 commitments were adhered to, but I'm not sure that 20 this has been completed nor voted on. I have a 21 great feeling the decision for Preston and about 22 Preston will be made in Scotland. I object to the 23 decisions being made in Portland. I didn't like it 24 when they were in Salt Lake, and now I have a 25 concern that they'll go to Scotland. 1553 HEDRICK COURT REPORTING HEUSSER P.O. BOX 578, BOISE, ID 83701 Public 1 I read comments that no dramatic rate 2 increase was planned, but small increases may be 3 needed in the future. I believe we're already 4 paying two or three cents more, especially more than 5 Idaho Power, that probably should be serving our 6 area. 7 I have a great concern. I do not see 8 where our local farmers or irrigators have a firm 9 rate or commitment. I believe that's been left out, 10 not on purpose, but it hasn't been addressed. 11 Preston relies on a farming industry. 12 We've had recent closures like Del Monte, those type 13 of things, that impacts our community greatly. I 14 believe our local farmers are stressed with the 15 current prices there are now for all costs, and that 16 they cannot handle any rate increase as the economy 17 goes now. 18 I believe we must have a rate cap if 19 the merger goes through, a mandatory rate cap. 20 I am told that our water rights will 21 be protected, but I am not sure that -- how this is 22 done or how we will be protected, but I'm trusting 23 the attorneys that that will be done. The City -- 24 the reason for -- the City of Preston has spent tens 25 of thousands of dollars negotiating water rights, 1554 HEDRICK COURT REPORTING HEUSSER P.O. BOX 578, BOISE, ID 83701 Public 1 and if that changed, it would be a great loss for 2 us. 3 Another huge concern is a board member 4 for the Southeastern Idaho Community Action Agency, 5 which represents low-income and aging people. I 6 have a huge concern for the low-income and aging in 7 our area. We are recognized as one of the lowest 8 per capita in the state. Fifteen to 20 percent of 9 their income is paid on utilities. Our staff now 10 has to call Portland in order to get vouchers and 11 service. And I believe that ScottishPower and the 12 local agencies should have a meeting to discuss any 13 and all programs that may be affected or may be 14 available. And I understand ScottishPower may have 15 programs available; we have not seen them. 16 I noted that at least 50 Idaho 17 legislators have voiced opposition against this 18 merger. 19 I do understand the current contract 20 with the City of Preston and PacifiCorp for our 21 hydro plant that we manufacture electricity and 22 sell, that the current contract will be renewed in 23 the future; however, we have not received that in 24 writing. The City of Preston relies greatly on that 25 fund to pay our budget. 1555 HEDRICK COURT REPORTING HEUSSER P.O. BOX 578, BOISE, ID 83701 Public 1 The general concession as I proceed 2 about the southern counties is that they are not in 3 favor of the merger at this time because that 4 there's not been enough presentation and 5 documentation, especially in Southeastern Idaho. 6 I urge the Public Utility Commission 7 to move slowly and thoroughly with this long, 8 complicated process. I believe that for this merger 9 to happen, the Commission must find these factors to 10 be true, that the public interest is not adversely 11 affected, the cost and rates for supplying service 12 won't increase as a result of the merger, and 13 ScottishPower has the financial ability to operate 14 and maintain electrical property in the state. 15 I believe the Idaho Commission -- 16 Public Utilities Commission -- can resolve that as 17 they have demonstrated in the past. 18 I -- I think I'll choose to stop 19 there. I do not want to take anybody else's thunder 20 or statement. 21 Again, welcome to Preston. Thank you 22 for having this hearing here. It's -- any Public 23 Utilities hearing should be held in Preston, and we 24 appreciate the opportunity to give testimony today. 25 COMMISSIONER HANSEN: Thank you, 1556 HEDRICK COURT REPORTING HEUSSER P.O. BOX 578, BOISE, ID 83701 Public 1 Mr. Mayor. 2 Let's see if we have any questions of 3 the Mayor. Questions? Commissioner? 4 Thank you very much for your 5 testimony. 6 (The witness left the stand.) 7 COMMISSIONER HANSEN: Tom Palmer. 8 Following Mr. Palmer will be Kathleen Steed. 9 10 TOM PALMER, 11 appearing as a public witness, being first duly 12 sworn, was examined and testified as follows: 13 14 THE WITNESS: I'm Tom Palmer from 15 Malad, Idaho. Address is 3798 West 500 South. 16 I guess what I have a problem with is 17 the beginning -- even this deal here, I have a 18 problem with public employees recommending a merger 19 before any public hearings are held. It says right 20 here the Staff all the way through here recommends 21 that, as I understand it. 22 As far as reliability and service, I 23 personally think it's terrible. I have a little 24 extra piece in that. 25 I worked for Idaho Power as a 1557 HEDRICK COURT REPORTING PALMER P.O. BOX 578, BOISE, ID 83701 Public 1 journeyman lineman, also for a construction company, 2 before I made the brilliant decision to come home 3 and run the ranch. 4 I am greatly concerned about their 5 service. I am also concerned about their employees 6 who are asked through rate reductions to go out in 7 the middle of the night, one guy in a storm or 8 something else happens to him. Who gets him off the 9 pole? Nobody. I've seen that happen with 10 Idaho Power. I had to take the man off. 11 It doesn't look to me like anybody is 12 considering the labor of these linemen if they take 13 $200 million of overhead off. How much thinner can 14 they cut this? 15 Lastly, I've never seen a merger save 16 me money yet. 17 COMMISSIONER HANSEN: Does that 18 conclude your testimony? 19 THE WITNESS: That's it. 20 COMMISSIONER HANSEN: Let's see if we 21 have any questions. 22 Any questions from any of the 23 parties? Commissioner? 24 Thank you very much for your 25 testimony. 1558 HEDRICK COURT REPORTING PALMER P.O. BOX 578, BOISE, ID 83701 Public 1 (The witness left the stand.) 2 COMMISSIONER HANSEN: Kathleen Steed. 3 4 KATHLEEN STEED, 5 appearing as a public witness, being first duly 6 sworn, was examined and testified as follows: 7 8 THE WITNESS: My name is Kathleen 9 Steed, S-T-E-E-D. I live at 2296 Black Pine in 10 Stone, Idaho. 11 MR. PURDY: Ma'am, in order for us to 12 be able to hear -- you're rather soft-spoken -- 13 perhaps you could hold the mike up close to your 14 mouth. 15 Thank you. 16 THE WITNESS: My husband and I, we own 17 a farm -- 18 MR. BUDGE: Did you swear -- 19 THE WITNESS: -- in Stone, Idaho. 20 COMMISSIONER HANSEN: Excuse me. 21 Mr. Budge, do you have a comment? 22 MR. BUDGE: I don't believe you swore 23 the witness. 24 COMMISSIONER KJELLANDER: Yes, I did. 25 You need to pay closer attention. 1559 HEDRICK COURT REPORTING STEED P.O. BOX 578, BOISE, ID 83701 Public 1 THE AUDIENCE: (Laughter.) 2 COMMISSIONER HANSEN: Any other 3 questions? Okay. 4 THE WITNESS: And we have irrigation 5 wells, and so I am really concerned about this 6 merger. And the prices that our farm products are, 7 this would be devastating to us if the prices were 8 to raise. 9 And I would like to thank the 10 Commission and Representative Geddes for holding 11 these meetings in our local area. It means a lot to 12 us to be able to be heard. 13 I'm also concerned about a foreign 14 power owning our electricity and our water. Who 15 would they answer to? And it seems like if you have 16 a dispute, that it takes an awful long time to get 17 it settled, and I'm concerned about that. 18 And I would just like to ask the 19 Commission that they vote against this merger. 20 Thank you. 21 COMMISSIONER HANSEN: Thank you for 22 your testimony. 23 Do we have any questions? 24 Thank you very much. 25 (The witness left the stand.) 1560 HEDRICK COURT REPORTING STEED P.O. BOX 578, BOISE, ID 83701 Public 1 COMMISSIONER HANSEN: Otila Taylor. 2 3 OTILA TAYLOR, 4 appearing as a public witness, being first duly 5 sworn, was examined and testified as follows: 6 7 THE WITNESS: My name is Otila Taylor. 8 I live at 4445 North 447 West, Malad, Idaho. I'm 9 a business owner in Malad. 10 And I'm concerned because with us 11 senior citizens with our incomes, if the British 12 power takes over our power, what is our guarantee 13 that they are not going to keep their promises to 14 keep us, as a senior citizen, with the prices that 15 we can afford for our lights and our power? 16 And it concerns me too that they 17 promise a lot, but a lot of them never come up with 18 their promises. 19 And as a senior citizen and a lot of 20 us in here that are concerned about the merger with 21 these foreign countries, most of these foreign 22 countries try to take over our country, and I don't 23 think it's fair. 24 So that's it. 25 COMMISSIONER HANSEN: Is that your 1561 HEDRICK COURT REPORTING TAYLOR P.O. BOX 578, BOISE, ID 83701 Public 1 testimony? 2 THE WITNESS: Yes. 3 COMMISSIONER HANSEN: Thank you. 4 Let's see if we have any questions. 5 Thank you very much for your 6 testimony. 7 THE WITNESS: You're welcome. 8 (The witness left the stand.) 9 COMMISSIONER HANSEN: We now have with 10 us Commissioner Jerry Bush from Oneida County. 11 12 JERRY BUSH, 13 appearing as a public witness, being first duly 14 sworn, was examined and testified as follows: 15 16 THE WITNESS: My name is Jerry Bush -- 17 B-U-S-H -- 1190 West 1000 North, Malad, Idaho. I'm 18 also a farmer and a rancher and a Commissioner for 19 Oneida County. I'm here to represent myself and 20 also the citizens of the community of Oneida County. 21 We appreciate the Commissioners here 22 of holding down into our location so that we can be 23 heard and see that what takes place in smaller rural 24 communities. We talk a lot of times about the big 25 industries, and they have a big voice and a big say 1562 HEDRICK COURT REPORTING BUSH P.O. BOX 578, BOISE, ID 83701 Public 1 for which they do, and they have a lot of weight and 2 they have a lot of power. But in Oneida County, we 3 don't have all that. We don't have what Caribou, 4 Bear Lake, or Franklin County, or Bannock County 5 does have, but we're still power users, we still 6 have an interest. We have a lot of citizens that 7 are concerned over there. 8 Also, I have -- I pay on Pacific Power 9 in Malad, also in Holbrook. Have a deep well in 10 Holbrook and I have a residence also in Arbon 11 Valley, which is just right east of Holbrook, 12 northeast of Holbrook, and that's Idaho Power. So I 13 know the difference between the service that 14 Idaho Power has and PacifiCorp has, what the 15 difference is, what the rate charges are. 16 What I'm concerned of Oneida County 17 that we have with -- not only Oneida County but it 18 has here with Franklin and Bear Lake too, everybody, 19 we're kind of a spur off of Utah Power and Light or 20 PacifiCorp here in Idaho, and our rates are usually 21 about $30 a month more than what they are just south 22 of the border in Utah. We've got a sheet right here 23 that's printed out, it comes off the computer, you 24 can find that information. So we're the -- Idaho is 25 one of the highest ones that is paying with Pacific 1563 HEDRICK COURT REPORTING BUSH P.O. BOX 578, BOISE, ID 83701 Public 1 Power. 2 We used to have a station in Malad. 3 We had an office there, we had a manager there. 4 Just like what Mr. Palmer mentioned, we used to have 5 our servicemen there. We have one lineman or 6 trouble -- troubleshooter that's there in our 7 community that lives in there. But sometimes when 8 it's wicked and mean, this one person, can he handle 9 all of that? If not, where do they call from? They 10 have to call either from Franklin County or 11 Box Elder County, which will take them all the way 12 by the time they get their call at their house at 13 night to get into their truck to get there, could be 14 all the way an hour plus by the time. And that is 15 if that's in the heart of the Malad Valley. And if 16 it's out west for where we farm and ranch, that's 17 30 miles west of Malad. Then they have to go that 18 much farther and it will take them another 45 19 minutes to get there. 20 Our service that we've had is not what 21 it used to be, and if we merge with ScottishPower, I 22 know that our service will go downhill, because each 23 time that there's a merge, that comes along with 24 their promises. We've never had fulfillment of them 25 yet, and we're concerned about that. 1564 HEDRICK COURT REPORTING BUSH P.O. BOX 578, BOISE, ID 83701 Public 1 Not only us that's in agriculture, but 2 what about we call them the elderly people? They 3 have a rough -- a rough enough time as it is. They 4 are on a fixed income. They might have a little 5 retirement plan or live on Social Security, and if 6 rate increases, that's another increase on them, and 7 they have to budget and manage pretty well for what 8 their -- what their income is now. So we do have 9 concerns of that. 10 We have concerns of the water rights 11 and who is going to pay for all of this. Like the 12 rest of the ones that have spoke, they have talked 13 about the different benefits maybe that will come or 14 maybe the better service or whatever, but that all 15 has to be paid for, and who paid for it? The ones 16 that use the electricity, the ones that pay the bill 17 has to pay for all of the bonuses, the pluses. 18 Whatever anybody gets in any company, that money has 19 to come from somewhere, and it's usually the payers 20 that have to pay it, the residents that will have to 21 pay that, not only the residents but the ones with 22 the deep wells and that. 23 We appreciate the Commission being 24 down here. We have a lot of faith in you, we have a 25 lot of trust in you, and we want you to take in 1565 HEDRICK COURT REPORTING BUSH P.O. BOX 578, BOISE, ID 83701 Public 1 consideration all that's been heard tonight, 2 especially from all the communities around. I know 3 you was in Grace and had a houseful today, and we 4 appreciate the folks being there to testify and we 5 appreciate everybody that's working with us, but we 6 do have a very dear concern about this merger that's 7 going to take place. 8 Thank you. 9 COMMISSIONER HANSEN: Thank you, 10 Commissioner. Let's see if we have any questions 11 for the Commissioner. 12 13 EXAMINATION 14 15 BY COMMISSIONER HANSEN: 16 Q. I guess I just have one: 17 You mentioned that you knew a 18 difference between the service -- quality of service 19 of Idaho Power and PacifiCorp because you had 20 service in both areas. What is the major 21 difference? 22 A. A lot of it is time, efficiency. The 23 biggest, I will say a lot of it when we have 24 problems that our residents in Arbon Valley, we call 25 up, they were down. Even if it's 2:00 in the 1566 HEDRICK COURT REPORTING BUSH (Com) P.O. BOX 578, BOISE, ID 83701 Public 1 morning if you call, a line has been broke or a 2 transformer's been broke, they will come right 3 down. Within an hour out of Pocatello, they're down 4 there. We've had problems when transformers went 5 out in Holbrook, they come out the next morning. 6 Time sometimes means a lot. 7 We have a lot of bumps that we call -- 8 I don't know exactly the right word for them, but we 9 call them bumps that comes in the line, and when 10 that bump comes along in a line, it shuts -- like 11 when your electric clock and that, digital clock and 12 it's blinking all the time, well we have that, and 13 that shuts our deep wells off. And lots of times we 14 have different ones that will kick them 15 automatically back on, but if you're running 16 different pivots and things and you're not wired 17 completely on them, with them bumps that come along, 18 your electricity is off until you go down the next 19 time to check. If it goes off during the middle of 20 the night, it's morning before it comes back on. 21 And we've had an awful lot of them. 22 We've -- this summer in the Holbrook area out there, 23 I imagine we'll have two or three of them at least 24 each week during the summer months. 25 COMMISSIONER HANSEN: Thank you very 1567 HEDRICK COURT REPORTING BUSH (Com) P.O. BOX 578, BOISE, ID 83701 Public 1 much for your testimony. 2 THE WITNESS: Thank you. 3 (The witness left the stand.) 4 COMMISSIONER HANSEN: Sherrel 5 Burgoyne. 6 7 SHERREL BURGOYNE, 8 appearing as a public witness, being first duly 9 sworn, was examined and testified as follows: 10 11 THE WITNESS: Sherrel Burgoyne, 12 S-H-E-R-R-E-L, B-U-R-G-O-Y-N-E. I live at 339 North 13 Eighth Street in Montpelier, Idaho. I am a customer 14 of PacifiCorp. 15 I really appreciate the opportunity 16 that this meeting gives us to voice our opinions and 17 to talk about some of our concerns regarding the 18 acquisition of PacifiCorp by ScottishPower. 19 I am a member of the Montpelier City 20 Council, but I'm not speaking for the Montpelier 21 City Council. I'm speaking for myself and voicing 22 my own concerns. 23 As a member of the Montpelier City 24 Council for the past six years, I have had an 25 opportunity to look at natural resources from a very 1568 HEDRICK COURT REPORTING BURGOYNE P.O. BOX 578, BOISE, ID 83701 Public 1 different perspective. The City of Montpelier has 2 been upgrading its water supply and the delivery 3 system. Our very excellent City maintenance crew, 4 working with an engineering firm and with the 5 cooperation of DEQ, are about four years into a 6 long-term program. It is a unique plan, because we 7 have been able to do this without the help of grant 8 money, which of course would bring quite a few 9 government restraints usually with it, and without 10 passing a bond, and thus, eliminating high interest 11 that we would have to pay. And so we've been able 12 to do this, saving our citizens more than half of 13 what the program would have cost before. When it's 14 finished, we'll have one of the best water systems 15 anywhere. 16 One of the important systems in this 17 plan will be drilling another well for the use of 18 culinary water. Now, we've been trying to get 19 permission to drill this well for the past 45 years 20 and our application has been protested by some other 21 entities who have a conflicting agenda, among whom 22 is Utah Power and Light, the subsidiary of 23 PacifiCorp. I'm not here to expound on the merits 24 of our well application, but to point out one very 25 large problem that I feel we might have with the 1569 HEDRICK COURT REPORTING BURGOYNE P.O. BOX 578, BOISE, ID 83701 Public 1 sale of PacifiCorp to ScottishPower -- in fact, I 2 would say that I feel we almost certainly will 3 have -- and it should be addressed. 4 Utah Power and Light, in connection 5 with its power-producing facility at Clifton, is in 6 control of administering and distributing the water 7 rights of the Bear River. Think about that for a 8 minute. This is really a lot of power. In my 9 opinion, it's far more power than the electricity 10 that they distribute in this area. They are 11 responsible to see that all people who have an 12 interest in the waters of Bear Lake and Bear River 13 receive their share of water. 14 This is far reaching. It impacts all 15 of the irrigated farms in the Bear River Basin in 16 Wyoming, Idaho, and Utah. It impacts our fish and 17 our game resources. It impacts tourism. In fact, 18 there is not one industry in the Bear River area 19 which is not affected by the management of this 20 resource. And it impacts the water that you and I 21 do or do not have to drink. 22 Do we want control of a resource this 23 important to a three-state area to be under the 24 control of a foreign-based country? Can our 25 conscience even allow us to consider it? That's 1570 HEDRICK COURT REPORTING BURGOYNE P.O. BOX 578, BOISE, ID 83701 Public 1 what I'm asking you two gentlemen on this stand and 2 the other representative, can your conscience even 3 allow you to consider it? 4 And this is a company in a country 5 where they do not even understand, need, or practice 6 the concept of irrigation. God takes care of their 7 irrigation. They get a rainfall every day. 8 COMMISSIONER HANSEN: Ms. Burgoyne, 9 you have one more minute. 10 THE WITNESS: I will take it. 11 THE AUDIENCE: (Laughter.) 12 THE WITNESS: It rains every day in 13 Scotland. 14 Hey, you guys haven't cut any of these 15 people off that were longer. 16 COMMISSIONER HANSEN: We'll let 20 17 more seconds. 18 THE WITNESS: There are solutions to 19 this problem. One of them might be the cancellation 20 of this sale entirely, which in the long run might 21 actually be beneficial for everyone involved, 22 including the two companies and their employees. 23 Solution number two might be for 24 PacifiCorp to trade off or sell our area to another 25 company, thus eliminating our objections to the 1571 HEDRICK COURT REPORTING BURGOYNE P.O. BOX 578, BOISE, ID 83701 Public 1 merger, and quite possibly lowering our rates as a 2 little bonus, and I wouldn't mind that. 3 Solution number three might be 4 eliminating Utah Power's administrator of the Bear 5 River water rights and providing for a third entity 6 to take over management and administration of the 7 water rights of Bear River, possibly a board 8 administered by the governments. 9 I know people smarter than I have many 10 reasons why my simplistic approaches are not 11 workable and plausible, but let me say this: Each 12 one is more workable and more plausible than the 13 proposed merger and subsequent management of our 14 water by ScottishPower. I can't help but wonder how 15 much longer the approval of our little municipal 16 well would have taken if one more level of hierarchy 17 were added to the mix. 18 Frankly, I'm scared to death about 19 this proposed merger. Our water is a resource that 20 cannot be replaced, and control of it should not be 21 relinquished to anyone, anywhere. We may fight like 22 a bunch of banshees among ourselves over its use, 23 but we still have its use to fight over. The day 24 may come when we have lost this use and control 25 completely. 1572 HEDRICK COURT REPORTING BURGOYNE P.O. BOX 578, BOISE, ID 83701 Public 1 I have grandchildren growing up in the 2 Bear Lake Valley and in Cache Valley, and I wonder 3 what I am going to say to them 20 years from now 4 when they wonder why I didn't do everything humanly 5 possible to block the loss of control of this 6 natural resource. 7 And I was going to end this by saying 8 I think we've been sold down the river, but I think 9 the river has been sold out from under us. 10 COMMISSIONER HANSEN: Thank you for 11 your statement. Let's see if we have any questions. 12 THE WITNESS: I want to leave my 13 statement for the other member of the board to read 14 if she will. 15 COMMISSIONER HANSEN: Thank you. 16 Were there any questions from any of 17 the parties? Commissioner? 18 Thank you very much for your 19 testimony. 20 THE WITNESS: Thank you. 21 (The witness left the stand.) 22 COMMISSIONER HANSEN: The next, 23 Jeff Johnson. 24 25 1573 HEDRICK COURT REPORTING BURGOYNE P.O. BOX 578, BOISE, ID 83701 Public 1 JEFF JOHNSON, 2 appearing as a public witness, being first duly 3 sworn, was examined and testified as follows: 4 5 THE WITNESS: My name's 6 Jeff Johnson -- J-E-F-F, J-O-H-N-S-O-N -- 7 1990 North 4000 West, Dayton, Idaho, 83232. 8 I'm a farmer, a pumper irrigator. 9 I'm also a member of the board of 10 directors of the Twin Lakes Canal Company. We serve 11 210 shareholders on the west side of this valley. 12 We have about 13,000 under our jurisdiction. And as 13 a canal company, we oppose the merger. 14 Let me begin by quoting a paragraph 15 from an article I read in the Post Register, and 16 this concerns rates for irrigators: 17 The Company -- referring to Swedish -- 18 ScottishPower -- the Company does not deny there may 19 be a disparity between the rates irrigators in Idaho 20 pay according to irrigators in other states, but 21 says it cannot fully study the issue until after the 22 merger. 23 It goes on to say the Company has done 24 nothing to respond to the questions about alleged 25 higher rates for Idaho irrigators than irrigators in 1574 HEDRICK COURT REPORTING JOHNSON P.O. BOX 578, BOISE, ID 83701 Public 1 other states. Alan Richardson, who will become 2 PacifiCorp's CEO if the merger is accepted, 3 testified that studying irrigation rates was not 4 part of the Application process. 5 Rate increases. Most of the farmers 6 that we represent are hay and grain producers. 7 Their margins are thin on the best of times. But 8 these are the worst of times for these farmers. 9 They can't afford rate increases. This sends chills 10 down my spine, thinking of rate increases, what it 11 would do to our community. 12 This uncertainty about rates is only 13 one concern. The other concern has to do with 14 service. 15 I grew up in Blackfoot, Idaho. On the 16 west side of our community, we were served by 17 Idaho Power. On the east side of our community, we 18 were served by Utah Power and Light. The farmers 19 compared notes and there was no comparison in rates, 20 in service, in power outages. 21 We -- we're concerned about service. 22 We have seen that from the merger of Utah Power and 23 PacifiCorp, that bigger isn't always better when it 24 comes to service. 25 This year, I have personally 1575 HEDRICK COURT REPORTING JOHNSON P.O. BOX 578, BOISE, ID 83701 Public 1 experienced more power bumps and power outages than 2 I ever have. And the service from corporate 3 downsizing is wretched. I don't care whether you're 4 going to a bank merger or whether you're dealing 5 with a utility merger. It's very difficult when 6 local people are taken out of the picture. When 7 they closed the office here, you couldn't call 8 somebody and tell them that this so and so place 9 pump was out. Now you have to call Salt Lake to a 10 switchboard, and you can't call on your cell phone 11 because you have to go home and get your little site 12 ID number and then you tell the operator where the 13 site ID is, and if they can find it on the map, 14 they'll get somebody out here. 15 I have better luck calling the service 16 technicians who I respect and who are good 17 employees, and calling them direct and saying, Hey, 18 I have a problem here. Come help me. 19 They come out, and while they're 20 coming out, I call the Salt Lake office and get the 21 procedure done. 22 But, we stand -- we stand in 23 opposition to this merger and we don't think bigger 24 is necessarily better. And service, to us, is just 25 as important as rates. 1576 HEDRICK COURT REPORTING JOHNSON P.O. BOX 578, BOISE, ID 83701 Public 1 That's it, and I thank you for your 2 coming to our community, and are there any 3 questions? 4 COMMISSIONER HANSEN: Thank you for 5 your testimony. 6 Do we have any questions? 7 I have one -- not a question, but I'd 8 just make a comment: You had mentioned on service 9 quality, as well as others here this evening. 10 A VOICE: Can't hear. 11 COMMISSIONER HANSEN: You mentioned on 12 service quality, as well as others have this 13 evening. After a previous hearing we had, the 14 Commission has authorized the Staff to conduct an 15 informal investigation into the service quality of 16 PacifiCorp in the Idaho jurisdiction. And I would 17 just like to introduce two of the people that are 18 involved in that and if they would stand so you 19 people can recognize them, and if you -- during the 20 break or afterwards you want to talk to them about 21 service quality, we have Beverly Barker and 22 Rick Sterling and Tonya Clark. Tonya is at the back 23 of the room there. So we're working on this, and I 24 would just urge any of you that have detailed 25 information on service quality you would like to 1577 HEDRICK COURT REPORTING JOHNSON P.O. BOX 578, BOISE, ID 83701 Public 1 pass on to them, they are doing that. 2 Thank you for your testimony. 3 THE WITNESS: Thank you. 4 (The witness left the stand.) 5 COMMISSIONER HANSEN: We'll now have 6 Warren Gleason. 7 8 WARREN JAY GLEASON, 9 appearing as a public witness, being first duly 10 sworn, was examined and testified as follows: 11 12 THE WITNESS: My name is Warren Jay 13 Gleason, and I reside here in Preston, Idaho. I'm 14 presently a customer of Utah Power and Light 15 Company. 16 MR. PURDY: Sir, what's your address? 17 I'm sorry. 18 THE WITNESS: 106 West Oneida Street. 19 I have previously represented 20 concerned citizens groups in rate hearings before 21 the IPUC, and have been president of a rural 22 electric cooperative. Also, I am an electrical 23 contractor and a general contractor and am 24 associated with Ritewood Egg Corporation, also is a 25 present customer of Utah Power and Light Company. 1578 HEDRICK COURT REPORTING GLEASON P.O. BOX 578, BOISE, ID 83701 Public 1 So I am acquainted somewhat with the problems that 2 deeply trouble the people of the state of Idaho 3 about this proposed sale of Utah Power and Light -- 4 that is, Pacific Power and Light -- to the holders 5 of the so-called ScottishPower Company. 6 The problems, as I see it, that I need 7 answers for are, number one, we here in this portion 8 of the state of Idaho reside within 75 airline miles 9 of the Columbia Basin drainage; therefore, we are 10 entitled as prime and minimum rate customers to the 11 energy generated downstream that is supplied by the 12 fall of that water. This is plainly manifest in the 13 bylaws in the constitutional agreements that 14 established the Bonneville Power Administration many 15 years ago. Contractual agreements of that 16 institution or any other to sell that power as a 17 bulk, lump sum, total buyoff is, to me, 18 unconstitutional and violates the rights of all 19 citizens living within those areas mentioned in 20 those early documents. 21 Utah Power and Light Company has 22 usurped from the beginning until a few years ago 23 hundreds of millions of dollars of the Bonneville 24 Power Company's energy belonging to the people of 25 the state of Idaho and distributed it throughout 1579 HEDRICK COURT REPORTING GLEASON P.O. BOX 578, BOISE, ID 83701 Public 1 their system without giving credit onto those whom 2 are rightly designated to receive it. This and 3 other proposed changes need thorough investigation 4 and correction. Utah Power and Light Company was 5 only allowed to enter the Northwest power pool 6 because of this portion of Idaho in their company. 7 What about our BPA credits? Are they 8 going to be blended into a foreign company where 9 they will be just -- where they will just vanish 10 away, or are they to continue as present, or are 11 they to be granted rightfully as was established by 12 law many years ago? 13 Problem number two as I see it: We 14 will be forever robbed of our prime and minimum rate 15 status. Will we? Because the State of Idaho has on 16 its books of law called the Power Supplier 17 Stabilization Act. This law guarantees power 18 companies immunity against infringement; in other 19 words, an area of guaranteed domain. However, a bit 20 minor loosening of that has come about by the 21 Federal Energy Regulatory Commission, but only to 22 very large industrial customers. The small 23 communities and light customers, little ones like 24 us, are left paying the exorbitant costs. Those 25 costs as simulated by the corporate utilities' 1580 HEDRICK COURT REPORTING GLEASON P.O. BOX 578, BOISE, ID 83701 Public 1 blended type of bookkeeping as they plead to the 2 Utility Commission for rate increases to cover 3 so-called losses from a madrid of causes, but only 4 lightly blaming coal fire generation or out of the 5 state of Idaho line construction and remote office 6 expenses. This in the earlier sellout to Pacific 7 Power and Light Company links us ever and ever 8 closer to isolationist surcharges. In other words, 9 charge them a lot because they can't touch us, not 10 even with the IPUC on their side. 11 COMMISSIONER HANSEN: Mr. Gleason, you 12 have one more minute. 13 THE WITNESS: Problem number three as 14 I see it: If this portion of the state of Idaho's 15 electrical energy system can be sold for whatever 16 reason, then why not sell it to Idaho Power Company, 17 or to some Idaho-based organization, such an 18 organization as a public utility or a cooperative or 19 a municipality, a community-owned organization that 20 can and will see to the needs of our expanding 21 communities, instead of some foreign entity with 22 private and blended holdings that will, without 23 question, bleed the life out of this area to support 24 their massive foreign holdings. Other areas of the 25 present corporate utility are being sold off or at 1581 HEDRICK COURT REPORTING GLEASON P.O. BOX 578, BOISE, ID 83701 Public 1 least the published planning indicates since. The 2 state of Idaho should be likewise severed, taken out 3 of their system, and by all means should become 4 either a public utility or a cooperative or annexed 5 to a locally proven private one. 6 Problem number four as I see it: Only 7 someone involved in electrical energy usage in this, 8 the last corporate shuffle with Utah Power and Light 9 and Pacific Power, can realize or even partially 10 understand the frustration and inconvenience, the 11 needless delays, the cost of doing business with a 12 company that does business out of West Coast offices 13 involving remote maintenance construction and 14 emergency repairs here in this Idaho community 15 thousands of miles away. Heaven help us if there is 16 a power line down and human life is at stake. Local 17 telephone numbers connect you to impersonal Portland 18 offices. Impersonal, I say, because those sweet 19 office girls appear to know nothing about how 20 electric energy gets from one place to another. 21 THE AUDIENCE: (Laughter.) 22 COMMISSIONER HANSEN: Mr. Gleason, I 23 hate to cut you off, but could you wrap it up? 24 THE WITNESS: I'll give it a good 25 try. I'm almost there. 1582 HEDRICK COURT REPORTING GLEASON P.O. BOX 578, BOISE, ID 83701 Public 1 COMMISSIONER HANSEN: Maybe you could 2 leave your written comments there. 3 THE WITNESS: I wanted to make this 4 comment, and I think this is quite fitting, because, 5 Hello, this is Portland office. Are you sure you 6 need it? I'll transfer you. 7 Bzzz, click, the line goes dead. 8 Hello? This is Scotland. Deposit $30 9 and talk slowly. 10 Bzzz, click, and the line goes dead. 11 THE AUDIENCE: (Laughter and 12 applause.) 13 THE WITNESS: Problem number five as I 14 see it: The promises of compensation for power 15 outages and other promises are only that, in so many 16 words. Potential areas of extended power 17 interruption can only mean future rate increases to 18 shift indebtedness and poor service to compensate 19 for trimming of whatever fat some may perceive. In 20 the long run, Idaho suffers and ratepayers are the 21 victims. The rich get rich and the poor have to pay 22 the bill. This is not about energy quality, it's 23 not about customer service. It's about money: Big 24 money and lots of it. "Scotch" is a word in our 25 dictionaries that everyone should look up. 1583 HEDRICK COURT REPORTING GLEASON P.O. BOX 578, BOISE, ID 83701 Public 1 Problem number six as I see it -- 2 COMMISSIONER HANSEN: Mr. Gleason, I 3 think -- 4 THE WITNESS: Oh, I hate that, because 5 I have some -- I'll leave them with you. You can 6 have a copy so you can have a good reading. 7 COMMISSIONER HANSEN: Let's see if we 8 have any questions. 9 Thank you very much for your 10 testimony. 11 THE WITNESS: Thank you. 12 (Applause.) 13 (The witness left the stand.) 14 COMMISSIONER HANSEN: Foster Ipsen. 15 16 FOSTER IPSEN, 17 appearing as a public witness, being first duly 18 sworn, was examined and testified as follows: 19 20 THE WITNESS: That will be a tough act 21 to follow. 22 Most of the things that I was going to 23 present this evening has already been presented. 24 I'm Foster Ipsen -- I-P-S-E-N -- 654 25 South 5400 West, Malad, Idaho. I live in the home I 1584 HEDRICK COURT REPORTING GLEASON P.O. BOX 578, BOISE, ID 83701 Public 1 was born and raised in. I've been in Malad all my 2 life. I'm under the PacifiCorp now, been under 3 Utah Power and Light, and also remember California 4 Pacific. So we've seen all three companies and how 5 they perform, and it's gradually gone downhill, in 6 my opinion, since we had these mergers. 7 I serve on the hospital board. Just 8 want to say a little bit about that. These rural 9 hospitals are fighting desperately to stay afloat, 10 to keep their name in the black, keep performing to 11 help the people to save lives that will make life a 12 little more comfortable for people who are growing 13 old or need nursing homes and such, and it's very 14 important that we try to keep the costs down in 15 these rural hospitals. And that's all I'll say 16 about that. 17 I am a farmer, have been a farmer, and 18 still live on a small farm that my father purchased 19 years ago. I know what it costs to feed 100 20 horsepower pump. And I sold that two or three years 21 ago in anticipation of what might be happening with 22 power. And I sold the farm to a young man that I 23 hope is going to be able to pay me for it, and I 24 worry about his ability to do that with any 25 additional cost in power. 1585 HEDRICK COURT REPORTING GLEASON P.O. BOX 578, BOISE, ID 83701 Public 1 I serve on a water board. I've seen 2 what people will do to fight over a stream of water 3 a foot deep and a foot wide. I dare say what it 4 will be like to fight over a river. 5 I thank you for this opportunity today 6 to be here, and I could say a lot more but that's 7 been said, and I just do not want the opportunity to 8 see us lose our land, our water, our rights to a 9 foreign country. And I just believe that so strong 10 that I hope this does not become a political thing 11 or a financial thing, but common sense will prevail. 12 COMMISSIONER HANSEN: Thank you very 13 much for your testimony. 14 Do we have any questions from any of 15 the parties? 16 Thank you very much. 17 (The witness left the stand.) 18 COMMISSIONER HANSEN: I believe we'll 19 have one more testimony and then we'll take a break. 20 Our good reporter here is getting quite a workout, 21 and we'll give her a little break too. 22 Cordell Williams. 23 24 25 1586 HEDRICK COURT REPORTING GLEASON P.O. BOX 578, BOISE, ID 83701 Public 1 CORDELL WILLIAMS, 2 appearing as a public witness, being first duly 3 sworn, was examined and testified as follows: 4 5 THE WITNESS: My name is Cordell 6 Williams -- C-O-R-D-E-L-L, W-I-L-L-I-A-M-S -- 6234 7 Old Highway 191, Malad, Idaho. 8 I've been in the irrigat- -- selling 9 and producing irrigation for the past since 1975. 10 I've dealt with farmers in most of these counties, 11 and big ones and small ones. As a rule, the power 12 companies in this country are considered estoppels. 13 I'm going to give you one story to explain what I'm 14 talking about. 15 We produced a large pump, had it all 16 ready to go. I can produce the operator if needs 17 be. And he called me one morning at 4:00 in the 18 morning. He says it will be ten days before he will 19 hook me up. I thought he was going to have a 20 stroke. 21 I called another one in another area, 22 and he said he'd go and hook it up for me. 23 When we go to do pump work and when we 24 go to supply it, the men are so concerned about the 25 power of electricity. Earlier, they considered 1587 HEDRICK COURT REPORTING WILLIAMS P.O. BOX 578, BOISE, ID 83701 Public 1 natural gas, they considered propane, they 2 considered diesel, everything in opposition to the 3 Power Company. Now, anyone knows that the best and 4 most efficient power is electricity, and especially 5 if the right rate. 6 Now, with these farmers now and the 7 shape they're in -- I understood from the writing 8 that about 25 percent of the spud farmers in the 9 state of Idaho were in trouble last year. The way 10 it's going now and if we have any more rate 11 increases, and I understand this BPA or whatever it 12 is has been taken away from them, that it's going to 13 create a terrible hardship on them. 14 Now, our farmers are in trouble, 15 there's no question about it, the majority of them. 16 Now, they're going to waterfront, mud, but if we run 17 two hours over, going to cost us the whole month 18 there. And I know this is -- this is a legal 19 situation that's done, but many of them shut off 20 their pumps. They pump for a month, shut them off 21 and let their farms dry up, because of the cost of 22 power. And I can verify that one too. 23 Mr. Chairman, I appreciate you being 24 in this community. I think there should be a 25 complete investigation, and I think from what I've 1588 HEDRICK COURT REPORTING WILLIAMS P.O. BOX 578, BOISE, ID 83701 Public 1 heard that it's being had, that we investigate 2 what's happening in our power in our country. 3 In the last six months, the power has 4 been completely off on a Sunday for most of the 5 day. 6 Another time, another man told me the 7 other day that I was putting a pump in for, said, I 8 don't know how many times this pump's out that's 9 there. 10 I think we need a situation in the 11 state of Idaho where we, as customers, aren't afraid 12 to approach those that are in a monopoly that run 13 our power system, and I think that the sooner that 14 we can break that monopoly, if another power company 15 could come in side by side and sell electricity like 16 it does in some areas, we'd have a whole different 17 area to consider. 18 I appreciate the time. If there are 19 any questions, I'd be glad to answer them. 20 Thank you very much. 21 COMMISSIONER HANSEN: Thank you for 22 your testimony. 23 Do we have any questions? 24 Being none, thank you very much. 25 (The witness left the stand.) 1589 HEDRICK COURT REPORTING WILLIAMS P.O. BOX 578, BOISE, ID 83701 Public 1 COMMISSIONER HANSEN: We'll take about 2 a ten-minute break. 3 I might mention to you, any that want 4 to fill out a written comment to have it on record, 5 there are forms at the back of the room that you can 6 fill out and send in to the Public Utility 7 Commission and state your opinion. 8 We'll take a ten-minute break, and 9 then we'll come back and continue calling 10 witnesses. 11 (Recess.) 12 COMMISSIONER HANSEN: Okay, we'll be 13 back on record now, and we'll call Dave Evans. 14 Dave? 15 Oh, and what I'll do is I'll call the 16 next person to testify, and we have a chair right up 17 here by Mr. Law. If the next person to testify 18 could come up and take that chair, I think we can 19 probably move along a little longer. 20 So do we have Dave Evans here? 21 MR. MILLER: Mr. Chairman. Down here. 22 COMMISSIONER HANSEN: Oh, yes, I 23 forgot. Mr. Miller, you did want to make a comment. 24 MR. MILLER: Just very briefly, 25 Mr. Chairman. 1590 HEDRICK COURT REPORTING COLLOQUY P.O. BOX 578, BOISE, ID 83701 1 Like Mr. Budge and Mr. Nye, I had 2 intended at the start of the hearing to explain the 3 Company's role at these hearings but forgot to, so I 4 just wanted to briefly say that it's not our 5 practice or intent to engage in cross-examination of 6 our customers in these forums; rather, it's our 7 intent to listen to our customers, for two 8 purposes: 9 The first is to try and understand 10 concerns that are expressed and determine if there 11 are ways that those can be addressed. I think we 12 have established a record of trying to address some 13 of the concerns as we have gone along. 14 And the second is to try and 15 understand if there are areas that we need to 16 address further in our anticipated written brief 17 that we will later file with the Commission, if 18 there are areas that we just have some disagreement 19 on. 20 So I just wanted to make it clear to 21 the public that our purpose here is to listen to 22 these concerns, try and devise ways to accommodate 23 in the way we can; and in the areas where that turns 24 out to not be possible, to explain later in a public 25 document what our response to those things is. So I 1591 HEDRICK COURT REPORTING COLLOQUY P.O. BOX 578, BOISE, ID 83701 1 just want to, with your permission, make that clear 2 to the public. 3 COMMISSIONER HANSEN: Thank you. 4 Okay, we'll begin our hearing. Our 5 first person is H. Lee Sleight, and then the next 6 one -- and I'm sorry, I can't read the last name -- 7 is David from -- 4216 West 800 South, Weston, is the 8 address and the first name is David, but I can't 9 make out the last name. 10 COMMISSIONER KJELLANDER: Just a 11 moment. We want to try to find the second person to 12 get him up here. 13 COMMISSIONER HANSEN: Is David here 14 from Weston? 15 We'd like to have the name printed and 16 we've got a couple here that is handwritten. 17 We also have another individual from 18 Weston at the address 4850 Highway 36, Weston. Is 19 an individual here from that address? 20 Okay, we will move to William B. Handy 21 would be the next, if he would take the chair there. 22 Okay, we're ready to go. Sorry about 23 that. 24 COMMISSIONER KJELLANDER: Thanks for 25 your patience. 1592 HEDRICK COURT REPORTING COLLOQUY P.O. BOX 578, BOISE, ID 83701 1 H. LEE SLEIGHT, 2 appearing as a public witness, being first duly 3 sworn, was examined and testified as follows: 4 5 THE WITNESS: Name is H. Lee 6 Sleight -- H, period, L-E-E, S-L-E-I-G-H-T -- 7 5598 South Westside Highway, Weston, Idaho, 83286. 8 Mr. Chairman and Mr. Commissioner, I 9 appreciate this opportunity to stand here and to be 10 able to voice my opinion. I don't represent a 11 group. I'm here for my own selfish reasons, because 12 I have become frustrated with the service that I 13 have received. 14 Earlier this year, for several months, 15 on a continuous basis -- and I wish I was as 16 efficient as Mr. Moyle -- I didn't bring the 17 calendar where we kept track, but we had continuous 18 brownouts, approximately one every other day. The 19 only phone number that I could find in the telephone 20 book, I got to Portland. If that's the closest I 21 can get for a company that services me, I want no 22 part of it. 23 I tried to explain the situation to 24 them. I talked to four different people. Each one 25 of them says, I have no idea why you are 1593 HEDRICK COURT REPORTING SLEIGHT P.O. BOX 578, BOISE, ID 83701 Public 1 experiencing brownouts. 2 They switched me again to another 3 person. I was cut off. Was that by coincidence? 4 You can draw your own conclusion. 5 I was completely upset after 6 45 minutes on the phone, and still I did not receive 7 an answer to the question as to why I was 8 experiencing brownouts at a regular period of every 9 other day. 10 Now, if I can for just a minute, I'd 11 like to explain. I'm a dairyman. A dairy is 12 operated by a vacuum pump, and if I can explain that 13 real briefly, a vacuum pump creates a vacuum 13 and 14 a half pounds. When the electricity goes off or a 15 brownout, that vacuum pump is immediately sent in 16 the reverse because it's trying to offset the vacuum 17 that it has created, so it goes back to zero. If 18 you experience a brownout and that vacuum pump is 19 spinning in reverse and the power comes back on, it 20 all of sudden throws that five horsepower motor and 21 vacuum pump going the opposite way again. I have 22 burned up -- this is a new vacuum pump. I've burned 23 up numerous starter capacitors. I am getting tired 24 of it. 25 I have had my hard drive on my 1594 HEDRICK COURT REPORTING SLEIGHT P.O. BOX 578, BOISE, ID 83701 Public 1 computer which has to run constantly to run part of 2 the dairy operation, it has gone bad because of 3 these continuous brownouts. 4 Yesterday, the power was out because 5 of rain, and I can appreciate that with the wind 6 that we had. 7 I live 50 feet from the Idaho state 8 line. My power comes from Utah. It extends into 9 Idaho -- that line -- one mile. If my line goes 10 down, a serviceman has to come from Preston; he does 11 not come from Utah. I had one come out yesterday. 12 I called in at 3:00, said that my power was out. 13 The lady in Portland said that she had also had four 14 other accounts. I had someone show up at my dairy 15 at 4:30 to fix my power. It took an hour and a half 16 for him to show up. Gratefully, power had came back 17 on because of whatever reason, they had fixed it 18 coming from Utah, 20 minutes -- 20 minutes to four. 19 Now, if my milk in that tank had not been cooled for 20 an hour and a half, I can guarantee you, that 300 21 gallons that was in there would not be very good 22 quality milk and you wouldn't want to drink it. 23 We need consistent power. 24 I don't think it's fair that I don't 25 get anybody local to call to. If this is supposed 1595 HEDRICK COURT REPORTING SLEIGHT P.O. BOX 578, BOISE, ID 83701 Public 1 to be a service company helping me, then why can't I 2 have a telephone number that I can call Logan or 3 Preston and talk to someone and get an answer to the 4 questions that I have? I believe it is ludicrous 5 and short-sighted to think that things will get 6 better or cheaper as this company gets bigger, even 7 with promises. A magician can pull a rabbit out of 8 a hat, but he does make the promise that the rabbit 9 was not in there before he pulled it out. Any 10 dad-blum person in their own mind knows that the 11 rabbit was in that hat before he pulled it out. 12 Promises don't mean much. 13 Again, Mr. Commissioner, Mr. Chairman, 14 thank you very much for this opportunity to visit 15 with you. 16 COMMISSIONER HANSEN: Thank you for 17 your comments. Let's see if we have any questions. 18 Questions from any of the parties? 19 Commissioner? 20 Thank you very much. 21 (The witness left the stand.) 22 COMMISSIONER HANSEN: Mr. Handy, and 23 Rebekah Hunt will be our next. Is Rebekah here? 24 25 1596 HEDRICK COURT REPORTING SLEIGHT P.O. BOX 578, BOISE, ID 83701 Public 1 WILLIAM B. HANDY, 2 appearing as a public witness, being first duly 3 sworn, was examined and testified as follows: 4 5 THE WITNESS: William Handy -- 6 H-A-N-D-Y -- 60 East Second North, Preston, Idaho, 7 83263. I've lived here most of my life. My family 8 has only been here since 1860, so we're basically 9 newcomers. 10 What I'd like to find out or would ask 11 about or discuss or whatever you want to call it is 12 a couple of things: 13 Once upon a time in this valley, we 14 did have local power. There was power, to my 15 knowledge, that served certain local areas, and then 16 the consolidation began. 17 Then eventually we fast-forward a few 18 years and we get Utah Power and Light, which was 19 okay. It was bad enough we had to have anything 20 from Utah. 21 Then we get PacifiCorp with their 22 promises and everything, and, well, you've seen 23 what's happened with the people who have testified. 24 Now we're talking about moving things 25 halfway around the world. 1597 HEDRICK COURT REPORTING HANDY P.O. BOX 578, BOISE, ID 83701 Public 1 As you can tell from the shirt I'm 2 wearing, it says End of the world, 12 miles. 3 Preston, Idaho, 15. 4 Well that's the way we're being 5 treated, people. We're three miles off the end of 6 the world. We don't matter. 7 You've heard testimony tonight from 8 these people. I just want to ask or basically state 9 a couple of things. 10 There is a thing called the Northwest 11 Energy Review Transition Board which is going 12 through the whole system of what we've talked about 13 here in the Pacific Northwest. 14 And, yes, we do live in the PacifiCorp 15 Northwest. Don't let anybody tell you otherwise. 16 The Utah state line is the line between the Pacific 17 Northwest and the Southwest. 18 BPA was supposed to be given -- this 19 credit -- for years; we never got it. I think we 20 should, in all honesty, if this is up for sale, let 21 us have our property back. The high kV lines out in 22 Winder where I grew up as a kid were taken, the 23 property was taken under the right of condemnation 24 by a quasi-government agency. They have the water 25 rights. You can't even drill a well out there to 1598 HEDRICK COURT REPORTING HANDY P.O. BOX 578, BOISE, ID 83701 Public 1 build a house without having somebody sue you 2 against having a water right in the state. 3 My questions come up to one basic 4 thing: All of the Northwest state cultures are 5 supposed to meet with the House delegation -- this 6 was on June 11th through the 12th -- for the draft 7 of the Bonneville Power Administration chapter of 8 the Northwest Power Planning Council's re-evaluation 9 of the system, which states: 10 Power generation is going to be split 11 up. Transmission lines will be split out. The 12 investor-owned utilities are going to be allowed to 13 write the regulation. 14 The people you see here now that are 15 going to buy are the ones that are writing the 16 regulations. That's never been mentioned to anybody 17 here that I've ever talked to. 18 Why aren't we being given a chance to 19 have our own power? We have 53,000 people. Let us 20 aggregate our own power. Let us be free from where 21 we are and have our only self-determination. 22 We have a right to have local control 23 and control over the governments of our own river. 24 We have paid the expenses, we have paid the price 25 for years. 1599 HEDRICK COURT REPORTING HANDY P.O. BOX 578, BOISE, ID 83701 Public 1 The main question that I have or the 2 main statement is what is going to happen under FERC 3 with the new reallocations on the water and the 4 licenses that are supposed to come up in the 5 future? What will happen to the water rights? 6 What about the transmission and the 7 systems in here? We have major kV lines that come 8 through that were ran down our throats. The 9 farmers' property was impacted. Nobody's paid them 10 for it. They took it under -- under condemnation. 11 I think we should condemn Utah Power and Light's 12 stuff and take it back. 13 What about our BPA credit? How much 14 of this so-called credit is going to be actually BPA 15 or a hydropower of two cents a kilowatt hour while 16 we're being charged seven or eight? 17 COMMISSIONER HANSEN: Mr. Handy, you 18 have one more minute. 19 THE WITNESS: Okay. 20 The FPA trump solved. That's what 21 they talk about in this regulation. Well, in it, it 22 talks about interest -- all interested parties. The 23 parties they talk about include BPA, Montana Power, 24 PNCG, Oregon PUC, Seattle City and Light, and 25 others. We don't even rank as "others." We don't 1600 HEDRICK COURT REPORTING HANDY P.O. BOX 578, BOISE, ID 83701 Public 1 rank except for when it comes to pay the bill or to 2 complain about the power. 3 As you can tell, I don't think we 4 should be merged with this situation. We were 5 promised things before; they never materialized. I 6 don't think we can do any worse. The governance to 7 the river is important, as is the fact that they're 8 our protected reaches that are involved. And who's 9 going to look after our interest? Someone in 10 Scotland? A company that we don't even know, a 11 nebulous "it"? 12 What is going to happen with FERC? 13 What is going to happen with the 14 situation as to power transmission? Are we going to 15 get nailed on top of our rate increase on that a 16 transmission line cost? 17 Before this Utility Commission does 18 anything, those issues have to be addressed. The 19 clauses in the new federal power regulation with the 20 United States government have to be addressed. How 21 can we build a consensus with the Northwest Power 22 Planning of the PacifiCorp Northwest without it? 23 How can the Governor say that he's for us or against 24 us if they're going to sell us out from under when 25 the people that are buying us or selling us are the 1601 HEDRICK COURT REPORTING HANDY P.O. BOX 578, BOISE, ID 83701 Public 1 ones that are writing the act that they want our 2 congressmen and our State senators to okay and our 3 governor to sign off on? It's stupid. 4 Thank you very much. 5 COMMISSIONER HANSEN: Thank you very 6 much for your testimony. 7 Is there questions for Mr. Handy? 8 Thank you, Mr. Handy. 9 THE WITNESS: Thank you, sir. 10 (The witness left the stand.) 11 COMMISSIONER HANSEN: Rebekah Hunt, 12 and then we have Gene Caldwell. 13 14 REBEKAH HUNT, 15 appearing as a public witness, being first duly 16 sworn, was examined and testified as follows: 17 18 THE WITNESS: My name is Rebekah Hunt, 19 R-E-B-E-K-A-H. I reside at 65 North Second East in 20 Preston, Idaho. I am a customer of Utah Power and 21 Light, and I'm also the executive director of the 22 Cache Valley Idaho Development Corporation and the 23 Preston Area Chamber of Commerce. I'm here today to 24 represent the Preston Chamber of Commerce. 25 I called 49 members of our 125-member 1602 HEDRICK COURT REPORTING HUNT P.O. BOX 578, BOISE, ID 83701 Public 1 chamber, and those are the only ones I was able to 2 reach. Out of those members, I requested opinions 3 from them. 4 Twenty-seven percent of those 49 5 members had no opinion on this because what they 6 explained to me is that they hadn't been given 7 enough information on it to make a decision. 8 Two percent of the members were for 9 it, and the reason that they gave to me that they 10 are for it was because they were disgusted with 11 PacifiCorp and the way they have been treated as 12 customers there; and they had visited Scotland where 13 this business is from, and they knew that they had 14 tough customers their to accommodate. 15 And seventy-one percent of these 16 people were against it. The reasons that they were 17 against this merger is mainly a lot of the reasons 18 that have been given before. They are concerned 19 with rate raises; they are concerned with a foreign 20 company coming in and taking over our utilities 21 here; they are concerned that they have no idea 22 about the agriculture in this area, that they have 23 no idea about water rights and the issues that go 24 along with that; they feel that they aren't close 25 enough to get the best service that they can, they 1603 HEDRICK COURT REPORTING HUNT P.O. BOX 578, BOISE, ID 83701 Public 1 won't be able to get ahold of the Company. There 2 were a few that were concerned that they are not an 3 American company. They felt that there hasn't been 4 enough information from that company on their past, 5 their resume of their company, their past 6 experiences with their other customers. A few of 7 them did mention that they would like Idaho Power to 8 buy out Utah Power in this area. Another concern 9 was that there would be more job losses, and that 10 other thing is that the Company would become so 11 large that they would not be concerned for this 12 small part of Idaho that uses their services. 13 Those were the concerns that I was 14 given from the people. 15 I add my testimony to that, that I am 16 greatly concerned about this merger; that I haven't 17 been fully convinced of their services, that they 18 will go up and they will be -- they will provide 19 good service and the raises won't go up and -- the 20 rates. 21 I did meet with the Company back in 22 the springtime. They came out and explained what 23 was going on. But at this time, there are still a 24 lot of concerns that I have that haven't been 25 addressed. 1604 HEDRICK COURT REPORTING HUNT P.O. BOX 578, BOISE, ID 83701 Public 1 And as also as the Chamber of 2 Commerce, we rely greatly on the support of the 3 Utah Power with their support of our activity that 4 we have every year. It's the Idaho Festival of 5 Lights that we hold here. And every year, they have 6 given us a donation in power to hold that, and I 7 haven't been fully convinced from this company that 8 they would continue to provide those services for 9 our community and be a good community participant in 10 our area. 11 And so that is my testimony. 12 COMMISSIONER HANSEN: Thank you very 13 much for your testimony. Let's see if we have any 14 questions. 15 Do we have any questions for Ms. Hunt? 16 Thank you very much. 17 THE WITNESS: Thank you. I appreciate 18 that you came down here to Preston. 19 (The witness left the stand.) 20 COMMISSIONER HANSEN: Mr. Caldwell, 21 and then we have Frank Priestley. 22 23 24 25 1605 HEDRICK COURT REPORTING HUNT P.O. BOX 578, BOISE, ID 83701 Public 1 GENE CALDWELL, 2 appearing as a public witness, being first duly 3 sworn, was examined and testified as follows: 4 5 THE WITNESS: My name is 6 Gene Caldwell. I'm a County Commissioner from 7 Oneida County. I live at 201 North 70 East, Malad 8 City, Idaho, where Idaho begins. 9 THE AUDIENCE: (Laughter.) 10 THE WITNESS: Chairman Hansen, and 11 Commissioner Kjellander, like my height, I'll be 12 short. 13 THE AUDIENCE: (Laughter.) 14 THE WITNESS: I understand you've 15 heard enough tonight and be repeating a lot of them, 16 and I'd just like to voice my support for some of 17 these. 18 My understanding is that ScottishPower 19 has some debt and that the present system is in need 20 of some major repairs, and my concern is how these 21 repairs are going to be made without raising the 22 rates. 23 Oneida County is the fourth poorest 24 county in the state, and I'm concerned that these 25 rates will increase for consumers. There's no 1606 HEDRICK COURT REPORTING CALDWELL P.O. BOX 578, BOISE, ID 83701 Public 1 guarantee they won't. They always seem to in a 2 buyout, which will further impact the citizens of 3 this country. 4 I also have concern about possible 5 increases for our irrigators, which are the backbone 6 of our economy, which has already been expressed. 7 And I have a real concern about losing 8 control to a foreign company, and I suggest that a 9 better solution would be for Idaho Power to buy out 10 PacifiCorp. 11 And these concerns I need 12 clarification on before I could support this merger. 13 Thank you. 14 COMMISSIONER HANSEN: Thank you for 15 your testimony, Commissioner. Let's see if we have 16 any questions. 17 No questions. Thank you very much. 18 (The witness left the stand.) 19 COMMISSIONER HANSEN: Mr. Priestley, 20 and then we have Joseph Thomas. 21 And, Mr. Priestley, you look a little 22 taller, so your comments will be a little longer. 23 MR. PRIESTLEY: They could be. They 24 could be. 25 1607 HEDRICK COURT REPORTING CALDWELL P.O. BOX 578, BOISE, ID 83701 Public 1 FRANK PRIESTLEY, 2 appearing as a public witness, being first duly 3 sworn, was examined and testified as follows: 4 5 THE WITNESS: Chairman Hansen, 6 Commissioner, we thank you for being down here with 7 us. 8 I'm Frank Priestley. I'm president of 9 the Idaho Farm Bureau Federation. I represent 10 approximately 50,000 family members across our 11 state, and I'm talking on behalf of them tonight, 12 Mr. Chairman. 13 We look carefully at the pros and the 14 cons of such a merger, and have carefully weighed 15 information of any positives that we could find that 16 convince us that it was to the best of Eastern Idaho 17 farmers' best interest to support this merger. 18 Unfortunately, we have found few pros and we have 19 some very deep concerns that such a merger is not in 20 the public's best interest, and certainly not in the 21 farmers' best interest. 22 We find it very unsettling that the 23 ScottishPower offers caps and incentives to the 24 states of Wyoming, Utah, Oregon, and undoubtedly 25 Washington, but dismisses Idaho as 24 percent 1608 HEDRICK COURT REPORTING PRIESTLEY P.O. BOX 578, BOISE, ID 83701 Public 1 undercapitalized and therefore subject to raising 2 power rates. 3 Under the Idaho law, Mr. Chairman, the 4 merger cannot have an adverse effect on rates, and 5 yet we see ScottishPower promising that only 6 dramatic increases in rates to Idahoans. The buyout 7 could wipe out many of our Eastern Idaho farmers. 8 As you're very well aware, the commodity prices of 9 the last few years and the cost of our pumping is -- 10 they just don't -- they just don't mix, and we're 11 very concerned about that. We cannot absorb any 12 more costs, and the low commodity prices and the 13 high inputs and any increase will tend to eliminate 14 our farmers. Eastern Idaho pumpers are in 15 particular high risk now so that this potential rate 16 increase will have a devastating effect on our 17 farmers. 18 The ScottishPower cites as examples of 19 its management efficiencies and skills, but yet it 20 has said that the Company offers an executive -- an 21 exclusive severance package of $20 million to 22 PacifiCorp executives, $50,000 cash to PacifiCorp 23 board members, 15 million in employee bonuses and 24 retention packages, and $1 a share for PacifiCorp 25 shareholders as a bonus for voting for the merger 1609 HEDRICK COURT REPORTING PRIESTLEY P.O. BOX 578, BOISE, ID 83701 Public 1 and increasing PacifiCorp's unsecured debt by 2 $5 billion. Somehow this doesn't equate to either 3 frugality or demonstration of management skills and 4 efficiency on the part of ScottishPower. 5 Mr. Chairman, we are indeed -- we're 6 greatly concerned about the water rights. We're 7 concerned about the water rights of our wells, we're 8 concerned about the water rights of the river, and 9 the control that it has for and the importance it is 10 for our farmers. 11 We found on the Internet also the 12 other day when we was going through and trying to 13 find more information on ScottishPower that they had 14 been -- they had been overpricing in their -- in 15 Scotland, and there -- and there's been others too 16 and ScottishPower wasn't the only one. But they was 17 overcharging for their services. 18 PacifiCorp in Southwestern -- in Idaho 19 has approximately 50,000 people that they serve. 20 This part of the state represents about 35 percent 21 of our farmer members, and agriculture is certainly 22 the backbone of this part of the country, and with 23 the rate increases and that we think that we're 24 going to have, we are very much opposed to this. 25 Oregon has $12 million in rate credits 1610 HEDRICK COURT REPORTING PRIESTLEY P.O. BOX 578, BOISE, ID 83701 Public 1 for three years and another 15 million for four 2 years. 3 And I received a letter back from 4 Mister -- Mr. Richardson, and he indicated into 5 that letter that We have made commitments to 6 environmental initiatives. 7 Mr. Chairman, this concerns us. We 8 think that there isn't anybody that's any more 9 attuned to the environmental issues than what our 10 farmers are in this state or this country. And it 11 seems to me like whenever the word "environmental 12 issues" comes up, it costs us water, it costs us 13 land rights, and it costs us a lot of money when 14 those are. I would like to have those -- what are 15 those commitments to the environmental issues and 16 what's that going to cost us as ratepayers and 17 what's it going to cost us as farmers in this state. 18 Just as a little sideline, and I -- 19 there's been quite a bit talked about the cost of 20 power in Idaho compared -- Idaho from Utah Power and 21 Light and compared to Idaho Power. We are paying 22 185 percent of what the ratepayers in Idaho Power 23 are paying. 24 We agree with the fact that if this 25 part is going to be bought out, I think that 1611 HEDRICK COURT REPORTING PRIESTLEY P.O. BOX 578, BOISE, ID 83701 Public 1 Idaho Power certainly ought to have a shot of buying 2 out this part of Utah Power and Light. 3 Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 4 COMMISSIONER HANSEN: Thank you for 5 your testimony. Let's see if we have any questions. 6 Do we have questions from any of the 7 parties? 8 9 EXAMINATION 10 11 BY COMMISSIONER HANSEN: 12 Q. I do have one question: 13 Did I hear you correctly, you said 14 that the Idaho Farm Bureau opposes the merger? Is 15 that correct? 16 A. Yes, sir. 17 Q. And how did you come to that 18 conclusion? Did you survey your membership, or is 19 this the board determined that, or could you tell me 20 how you arrived at that decision? 21 A. Our -- our policies are developed, 22 Mr. Chairman, through our policy development which 23 starts at our ground roots at the counties, and it 24 goes from the counties and it goes through the 25 districts, which in this district is seven counties 1612 HEDRICK COURT REPORTING PRIESTLEY (Com) P.O. BOX 578, BOISE, ID 83701 Public 1 in this area. That's about what a district is all 2 the way through the state. It goes through that, 3 and then goes to what we call our house of 4 delegates. And there's two representatives from 5 each county, and this is how our policies are 6 developed. And from those policies comes our 7 statements. 8 Q. Okay. Thank you very much for your 9 testimony. 10 A. Thank you. 11 MR. MILLER: Mr. Chairman. 12 COMMISSIONER HANSEN: Oh, excuse me. 13 I'm sorry. 14 MR. MILLER: That's -- thank you very 15 much. I just wanted to clear up what appears to be 16 a misimpression or a lingering point of 17 misinformation, and that is this, that ScottishPower 18 has promised in Idaho the same rate credit as it's 19 promised in all other states. And that may have 20 occurred after your initial letter. And in that 21 way, through that promise of equivalent rate credit, 22 it's our feeling that Idaho is being treated equally 23 with all other states. That promise is contained in 24 a written document that's been filed with the Public 25 Utilities Commission, and it's a written document 1613 HEDRICK COURT REPORTING COLLOQUY P.O. BOX 578, BOISE, ID 83701 1 that the Company is considered to be binding. So I 2 just wanted to perhaps update that bit of 3 information that you may not have had at the time 4 you wrote your initial letter. 5 THE WITNESS: Thank you. May I ask 6 you a question? 7 COMMISSIONER HANSEN: No. 8 THE WITNESS: No? Okay. 9 COMMISSIONER HANSEN: You can on 10 break. 11 THE WITNESS: Okay. 12 COMMISSIONER HANSEN: Or after the 13 hearing. 14 Thank you very much. 15 (The witness left the stand.) 16 MR. BUDGE: Mr. Chairman. 17 COMMISSIONER HANSEN: We now have 18 Mr. Thomas, and then Paul Campbell. 19 MR. BUDGE: Mr. Chairman. While that 20 witness is attending, with due respect to 21 Mr. Miller's comments, I don't think it's very 22 appropriate for him to be testifying in the 23 proceeding, and that's clearly what his comments 24 were, is testimony. The Company has amply put out 25 their position in news releases, and I think if he 1614 HEDRICK COURT REPORTING COLLOQUY P.O. BOX 578, BOISE, ID 83701 1 had a question for the witness that would be 2 appropriate, but to simply testify to his view of 3 the facts, I think it's out of order and it's 4 objectionable, and we will object in the future if 5 the Commission should instruct the Company that this 6 is an appropriate place for them to be testifying. 7 COMMISSIONER HANSEN: Mr. Budge, the 8 Commission will take your remarks into 9 consideration, and as we review this and deliberate, 10 we will take that in. 11 MR. BUDGE: Thank you. 12 COMMISSIONER HANSEN: Mr. Thomas. 13 14 PAUL THOMAS, 15 appearing as a public witness, being first duly 16 sworn, was examined and testified as follows: 17 18 THE WITNESS: My name is 19 Joseph Thomas. I live at 100 East 155 South, Malad, 20 Idaho. 21 Mr. Chairman, first of all, I want to 22 represent myself, make a simple comment. 23 It is obvious that ScottishPower will 24 be spending millions upon millions of dollars to 25 acquire PacifiCorp, and they have further stated 1615 HEDRICK COURT REPORTING THOMAS P.O. BOX 578, BOISE, ID 83701 Public 1 their intentions to reduce or downsize their company 2 by at least 200 members. It becomes obvious then 3 that we cannot expect, therefore, reduced rates and 4 better service because of that. 5 Secondly, I wish to stand and 6 represent the largest power users in Oneida County, 7 and that would be Hess Pumice Products, Idaho 8 Minerals, US Grout, and Hess Ready Mix. And I'd 9 like to read a statement from the CEO of Hess 10 Pumice. 11 Dear Chairman and Members, as our 12 management team began studying the possible effects 13 of the aforementioned merger, it became abundantly 14 clear that the net effect of the deal would have a 15 detrimental effect not only on our situation, but on 16 the entire Southeast Idaho area currently served by 17 PacifiCorp. 18 We want to make it clear that Hess 19 Pumice Products and its affiliated companies 20 US Grout, Idaho Minerals, and Hess Ready Mix are 21 unequivocally opposed to the planned merger. 22 Southeast Idaho customers of PacifiCorp are already 23 at an economic disadvantage vis-a-vis all other 24 regions within the state. In fact, compared to our 25 fellow citizens in Northern Idaho, we are paying 1616 HEDRICK COURT REPORTING THOMAS P.O. BOX 578, BOISE, ID 83701 Public 1 rates that are nearly double. 2 To add insult to injury, all other 3 areas within the PacifiCorp service area have 4 significantly lower rates than we do. We have 5 obviously been poorly represented by our IPUC on a 6 historic basis. We are being gouged to subsidize 7 more politically powerful areas within PacifiCorp 8 service area, and this only looks to get worse after 9 the planned merger. 10 We urge in the strongest terms that 11 the IPUC reject this merger outright. It is 12 absolutely not, and in quotations, in the public 13 interest to let this go forward. 14 Sincerely yours, J. Marvin Hess. 15 That concludes my comments. 16 COMMISSIONER HANSEN: Thank you for 17 your testimony. 18 Do we have any questions? 19 Thank you very much. 20 (The witness left the stand.) 21 COMMISSIONER HANSEN: Now have 22 Mr. Campbell, and then we have Dan Keller. 23 24 25 1617 HEDRICK COURT REPORTING THOMAS P.O. BOX 578, BOISE, ID 83701 Public 1 PAUL F. CAMPBELL, 2 appearing as a public witness, being first duly 3 sworn, was examined and testified as follows: 4 5 THE WITNESS: Paul Campbell, P-A-U-L, 6 C-A-M-P-B-E-L-L. 7 I represent myself, who is a dairyman 8 farmer. I have wells and pumps on irrigation, a 9 couple of different irrigation systems. And I'm 10 also a Franklin County Commissioner, and unless the 11 Commissioners have changed their minds since our 12 meeting a week and a half ago, they are totally 13 against the merger of the Scottish takeover, which I 14 would refer to it as. 15 And everything's been said tonight, so 16 I'll make this very short. The lady from I believe 17 it was Montpelier said very well what I would have 18 said, and I would say what she said. The only 19 difference in me here tonight is I've lived in 20 Scotland for two years, and in their socialistic 21 country, there's a big difference between the man on 22 the top and the man on the bottom, and I think we 23 represent, from the most part in this area, those on 24 the bottom. And if you'd like to pop shillings in a 25 meter to turn your television on at night, then we 1618 HEDRICK COURT REPORTING CAMPBELL P.O. BOX 578, BOISE, ID 83701 Public 1 should probably be for this merger. 2 Another thing that I'm against is I 3 hate to see any money -- any more money leaving this 4 country. I'm sure some of it will stay here, 5 because some of them will relocate and move into our 6 country, but anytime money leaves this country to a 7 foreign country -- and I'm Scottish. Both sides of 8 my family are Scottish. I dearly love those 9 people. But they got their name and their 10 traditions rightly. They are very hard working, 11 very industrious. They are wonderful, wonderful 12 people. And they're coming here to make money on 13 us. It's simple. They're not coming here to lower 14 my rates and make my service better; they're just 15 not. Do you think they are? You really, honestly 16 think they are? 17 Ask my kids: I'm Scottish. Ask them. 18 They're coming here to make money. 19 And they will. I guarantee, you, they will, they 20 will come here and make money off of us. 21 Enough said. I think if you want to 22 ask me any questions about living in Scotland, I can 23 what they're talking about. 24 I'd like to come and translate if you 25 need to. 1619 HEDRICK COURT REPORTING CAMPBELL P.O. BOX 578, BOISE, ID 83701 Public 1 COMMISSIONER HANSEN: Thank you for 2 your testimony. 3 We'll see if we have any questions for 4 Mr. Campbell, who his an ancestors came from 5 Scotland. 6 THE AUDIENCE: (Laughter.) 7 COMMISSIONER HANSEN: I believe we 8 don't. 9 (The witness left the stand.) 10 COMMISSIONER HANSEN: Mr. Keller, and 11 then we have I believe it's Carl Swenson. 12 13 DAN KELLER, 14 appearing as a public witness, being first duly 15 sworn, was examined and testified as follows: 16 17 THE WITNESS: I appreciate this 18 opportunity, and I, like the Commissioner before me, 19 recognize that most everything has been said. I 20 want to just make two quick points. 21 I guess I need to back up. I 22 apologize. 23 My name is Dan Keller, K-E-L-L-E-R. 24 I've lived in Preston my entire life. I'm 25 representing myself. I'm a customer of Utah Power 1620 HEDRICK COURT REPORTING KELLER P.O. BOX 578, BOISE, ID 83701 Public 1 and I'm the proud owner of 53 shares of PacifiCorp, 2 and the stock price has not gone up since the 3 announcement of this merger. 4 THE AUDIENCE: (Laughter.) 5 THE WITNESS: Which, by the way, is 6 indicative of how usually Wall Street looks at 7 mergers, but that's beside the point. 8 My primary purpose of wanting to say a 9 few words was this: I work for a large bank. I'm a 10 commercial agricultural lender, and I just want to 11 back up the remarks that have already been presented 12 about the fact that our farmers cannot take any more 13 costs and increase in expenses that they cannot 14 control. I won't get into that any further, but 15 there's two issues that I'd like to just address 16 real quickly. 17 Number one, I would like the members 18 of the Commission to consider -- this has never been 19 brought up in any other testimonies or any news 20 releases that I've read -- but Utah Power and Light 21 presently is the largest property taxpayer in 22 Franklin County. Our local County Assessor has no 23 jurisdiction or control over the valuation of -- of 24 Utah Power and Light because they are considered an 25 operating property as designed -- or, as defined by 1621 HEDRICK COURT REPORTING KELLER P.O. BOX 578, BOISE, ID 83701 Public 1 Code. 2 The reason I bring this up is because 3 it's been previously mentioned that if this 4 acquisition is allowed to occur, that an additional 5 $5 billion of debt will have to be obtained by 6 ScottishPower. That's a very complex formula on how 7 the property valuation is obtained -- is determined, 8 and part of the formula as determined in the Idaho 9 Code refers to the fact, among other things, the 10 amount of lines, the amount of telephone poles -- I 11 mean, utility poles -- the amount of transmission 12 facilities, but also the amount of debt. In other 13 words, the amount of interest cost that will have to 14 be serviced. 15 And I submit to the Commission that if 16 this merger is allowed to go through, that the 17 property tax paid by Utah Power will be 18 significantly reduced, thus increasing their other 19 residents' property taxes in the county. 20 Now, there's been a lot of information 21 brought up about service and issues, and I think we 22 have something that's much more important than 23 service and issues. The service part, the expense 24 part, and other issues is very important, but I 25 think as we live in a democracy, gentlemen, there 1622 HEDRICK COURT REPORTING KELLER P.O. BOX 578, BOISE, ID 83701 Public 1 hasn't been any person that has voted or suggested 2 that this thing be approved. 3 It's been suggested that you, as 4 Commissioners, slowly and deliberately and in a 5 timely fashion determine if this is the right thing 6 to do, and I'm going to disagree with those 7 statements. I think you should quickly make the 8 determination to kill this thing, because we let the 9 attorneys -- 10 (Applause.) 11 THE WITNESS: -- and the accountants 12 and the consultants and the financial advisors, they 13 can argue about this thing and come up with more 14 incentives and more things that they can put on the 15 table. This can go on forever and ever and ever, 16 and they will slowly wear the people down. And I 17 think that since it's so overwhelmingly been 18 observed today that everyone is opposed to it, 19 gentlemen in the Commission, I think you should do 20 the right thing and vote against this. 21 I appreciate the time. Thank you. 22 COMMISSIONER HANSEN: Thank you. 23 Let's see if we have any questions for 24 Mr. Keller. Do we have any questions from any of 25 the parties? 1623 HEDRICK COURT REPORTING KELLER P.O. BOX 578, BOISE, ID 83701 Public 1 Just one comment, Mr. Keller: It 2 takes a lot to wear a Commissioner down. 3 THE WITNESS: I hope so. 4 COMMISSIONER HANSEN: And we've just 5 about been worn down. 6 THE AUDIENCE: (Laughter.) 7 COMMISSIONER HANSEN: This concludes 8 all of those that have written or signed up to make 9 a statement. Is there anybody in the audience that 10 did not sign up that would care to make a statement 11 before we close this hearing? 12 Okay, I appreciate -- we appreciate -- 13 the participation here this evening, you coming out, 14 and those that have expressed their opinions. And I 15 would like to mention, those that want to express 16 their opinions to the Commission, you can write the 17 Commission. The address is back there. We'll 18 accept written testimony through September the 10th. 19 With that, this completes the hearings 20 in this case. The Commission will take all of the 21 testimonies into consideration as we deliberate and 22 make a Decision in this -- in this case. 23 With that, this hearing will now 24 adjourn, and we'll adjourn all hearings on this case 25 now. Thank you. 1624 HEDRICK COURT REPORTING COLLOQUY P.O. BOX 578, BOISE, ID 83701 1 (The hearing concluded at 2 9:50 p.m.) 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 1625 HEDRICK COURT REPORTING COLLOQUY P.O. BOX 578, BOISE, ID 83701 1 AUTHENTICATION 2 3 4 This is to certify that the foregoing 5 proceedings held in the matter of the joint 6 Application and Petition of PacifiCorp and Scottish 7 Power plc for a Declaratory Order or Order approving 8 proposed transaction and an Order approving the 9 issuance of PacifiCorp common stock, Case No. 10 PAC-E-99-1, commencing on Tuesday, August 31, 1999, 11 at the Gem Valley Performing Arts Center, 704 Main 12 Street, Grace, Idaho, and the Robinson Building, 289 13 West First North, Preston, are true and correct 14 transcripts of said proceedings to the best of my 15 ability, and the originals thereof for the file of 16 the Commission. 17 18 19 20 __________________________________ WENDY J. MURRAY, Notary Public 21 in and for the State of Idaho, residing at Meridian, Idaho. 22 My Commission expires 2-5-2002. Idaho CSR No. 475 23 24 25 1626 HEDRICK COURT REPORTING AUTHENTICATION P.O. BOX 578, BOISE, ID 83701